Don't get so caught up with the Christian mind control telling us we're all bad because we exploit free will. If god is all knowing, he should have known how we would use our free will. We couldve been given free will without being given greed and selfishness, etc. If god made us good we wouldnt be bad. according to the bible he punished us for behaving poorly even though he knew we would do that before he even created us. If he's all powerful, he wouldnt have messed up with people.
Hey, if babies are born with disabilities because of what the man has done with his free will, why does the baby have to suffer? Why does God have to be so unfair to those that have done nothing wrong in their life? Kids that have disabilities would most likely get fun of at school and suffer from depression and might as well end their own life from all the suffering. Can someone please answer my question?
Since the "fall", every person born has had some form of disability-most minor, some major.
I strongly believe that those with severe limitations and struggles will have it better, plus having a higher standing in the afterlife~ if they have Christ.
*BUZZ* sorry, the correct answer is - he doesn't. Disabilities are the result of genetic anomalies, imperfect fertilization, or injury in utero; all of which are unfortunate natural incidents and have nothing to do with divine forces. Your delusions are legendary.
When you suffer the agonizing pain that never ever abates because your child has a disablity, please post another video. When you see other children run from your child because he not like them; when you discover your child has been treated badly by people you trusted to care for him; when the school tries every trick they can to isolate your disabled child from the general population, please post another video.
Uh oh. You setup a trap for yourself. So why did God create man to be able to disobey him? He, of course, knew this would happen. Doesn't that mean he wanted some people to be born with disabilities? Oh, so many holes...
Why can't we all just get along? I know it has nothing to do with this video but come one people, women are from earth, men, are from earth. Now deal with it.
This is like the blind leading the blind. You can't have someone with a mental disability (Chad has a psychological disorder called "Religious Delusional Schizophrenia- RDS") explaining the reasons people are born with disabilities.
So some people deserve to be disabled because some fucking naked retard ate a fruit 6000 years ago, you gotta love religious stupidity. Just darn right shameful
God doesn't create people with disabilities. A disability is created either when the parents abuse drugs and alcohol, or if the genes from a parent don't combine property at conception. Its also the chemicals in water, food, and in the air as well.
@smurfboywv i guess god isnt powerful enough to prevent that. Not every child with disabilities have reckless parents. And why to children deserve to suffer because of what their parents have done? A moral perfect and all powerful god would prevent that and sense he doesn't he either doesn't exist or is not all moral or all powerful.
@smurfboywv Well god made the chemicals and the female reproductive system. i guess you are too blind to see the connection lol. It sounds like it is our job to fix gods mistakes that he made while making us and our environment, which proves that an all powerful and all moral god doesn't exist.
@smurfboywv You don't deserve any respect, you're a boderline sociopath, nobody can think human beings deserve eternal damnation because of the mistake of an ancestor and not be a sociopath.the I won't ask an imaginary God for forgiveness, I will ask the people I my have offended for forgiveness. That's another reason why you christians are sociopath, you blieve that if you ask your god for forgiveness anything you do no matter how bad i fine, that's how we end up with tragedies like in Norway.
@smurfboywv Sorry bro but there are hundreds of Heaven stories at there, right now you could be wrong and go to Islamic hell or Jewish hell, aren't you scared about that? They have just as much chance at existing as your idea of hell.
all because man was punished for a sin(eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil), before man even knew what sin was. This is because before eating the fruit of knowledge they did not have that knowledge so deserving of punishment. I guess god wanted us stupid and to not know what we are doing, whether it be good or evil.
do you realize how far you have to bend over backwards and say things that don't make logical sense to answer these question?
@Jaym505 You have to really think things out before you believe them and not just believe what people say. Think about it, is it really logical that people are being born with mental illnesses because of the story of adam and eve?
@Jaym505 "all because man was punished for a sin(eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil), before man even knew what sin was." We are suffering because of OUR sin. the result is initiated from them, but you sin against God.
@xchampx From "OUR sin"? Why are people born with disabilities and illnesses. Thanks for replying and trying to clear it up, but the last time i checked you are unable to sin in the womb.
@xchampx So God the "all loving" damns his own creation by placing a temptation infront of them without knowing human nature itself? Then for ever longer all humans decendant from the stupid woman that tricked the man into eating what was right there infront of him, is damned because of what they did? Whats the point of worshiping a god that damned you on conception regardless?
rationalresponder, Sorry I couldn't sit through any more than a couple of minutes of watching your wrinkled brow and face contorted in faux concern. You're as transparent as a ghost.
I really hope one day you are healed from your own disability and develop some authentic thoughts and feelings.
@Danthemanlyman7 How could they use time on a god they don't BELIEVE IN? That gives no meaning. What they do is trying to make people understand that there IS NO GOD.
If you are told that there is a red and green carpet made out of diamond of the name Hakkodd that made the Universe, would you believe it? Probably not. Why then should you believe that God exists because of the Bible? Why not believe in Islam, Sikhism or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Why not believe in Harry Potter or Atlantis?
father adam sin is not my sin my sin is not your sin and by the way adam sin been forgiven so we will not be judge for his sin. if jess is the one who forgive why he did not forgive sin of adam who is b4 him so people will be living good life with no Disabilities or any thing bad? reed quran you know why
Rom 5:18 There4, as thru 1 man’s offense judgment came 2 all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through 1 Man’s righteous act the free gift came 2 all men, resulting in justification of life. Rom 6:17 God b thanked that though u were slaves of sin, yet u obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine 2 which u were delivered. 18 having been set free from sin, u bcame slaves of righteousness.
WHAT!?! So people with disabilities didn't come from Adam n Eve and are not the image of your God but r disabled due to sin?!?! How do they deserve to b BORN this way if THEY didn't sin? I thought ur god didn't punish the children 4 the sin of the fathers anymore? God put us in a fallen state and He IS to blame. HE made and placed the Tree and HE KNEW what the outcome would be!
Oh thank you, thank you very much for all the answers.......one point that i need to be told is how you have all the answers and btw god gave us freewill you idiot...do you listen to yourself after and have you ever heard of inteligence!
Oh thank you, thank you very much for all the answers.......one point that i need to be told is how you have all the answers and btw god gave us freewill you idiot...do you listen to yourself after and have you ever heard of inteligence!
I have a disability called Arthrogryposis, which limits the movement of my arms and legs. I recently learned one of the reasons God made me disabled. When people are taking care of me: they are also serving God. I find this very uplifting because when I get upset about being disabled, I think of how God is using me to help others.
We don't have to understand the answer to the question, because the question itself is flawed, assuming that God is the one making people. I'm not going to go 8th grade health class on you and explain the chemical reactions that make human beings, but I will go ahead and explain that disabilities are caused by mutation, toxicity, and sometimes, who you mate with. You literally just said that disabled people are born because of sin. That's very hateful mister.
Actually, why does it matter so much about why God created people with disabilities? First of all, some disabilities, I am sure, are becuase mothers smoke or do things that are not supposed to be done. Second, a disability is not a curse, is it? I mean, look at Stephen Hawking! Look at Susan Boyle! So, disabilities are not a curse, they are burdens that are hard to carry, but not a curse. I mean, if you have a relative with a disability, do you find them a curse or a blessing?
@ 3:38, you asked "who has it worse - the disabled person or the rich and famous one?" Your reasoning seems to be that the disabled person is more likely to set his eyes on "heaven" or whatever.
To me, offering "heaven" as compensation for physical/mental disability is like taking away my Ferrari and offering me a 10-pound bag of beans as "compensation" (with the threat of an eternal ass-kicking if I don't accept the goodness of this "trade" on blind faith.) Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
@bjggjb one day, on judgement day ,you will have to answer for what you said here!GOD will ask you, why you refuse to believe when HE sent you sooo many messages. the bible, evangelicals like chad, and im sure if you look back on your life, other situations, and you will be judged, i will pray your heart softens for the gospel.everything youre looking for can be found in JESUS. just try, HE wont ever let you down!
What gets me is the sheer arrogance of this guy; one of our country's elite warriors, a man gifted with perfect health - straying from his area of expertise to babble sanctimonious nonsense about disabled people "having it better" than the rich/famous? What a presumptuous prick. As I mentioned elsewhere, this guy needs to stick to killing our foreign enemies and leave the philosophy alone.
@bjggjb GOD can take a broken man and use HIM to further HIS kingdom, did u know that the son of sam is now an evangelical born again believer with his own ministry in prison? it took going to prison, to save his soul! now he dedicates his life to help all prisoners find salvation through JESUS!
@daGODhour Well ain't that just freakin' swell. The family members of "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz's victims get 2 choices if you're right:
A. Be tortured forever in "hell"
B. Hang out and be friends with Son of Sam forever in "heaven" (*puke*) - along with Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and every other scumbag criminal who got "born again" in prison hoping to get clemency from the parole board (or their sentences commuted.)
I think I'll take a pass on that offer, thank you very much.
@pugandspencer1 One more thing. Assuming your god is who/what Christians claim he/it is, why would he/it need to ask me ANYTHING on "judgement day"? In fact, he/it knew I'd reject him/it before I was born, so why did he/it bother creating me?
@bjggjb exactly my point, HE is a merciful, wonderful GOD, who even though HE knows all, still created us with free will to reject HIM if we choose and at the same time loving us all equally. it saddens HIM to have to be a just judge on judgement day, but HE always gives us an opportunity to hear the gospel to repent and change. i used to be a completely different person, GOD changed me just like HE did to chad
Are you serious??So God essentially punishes a innocent person for what 2 people did some odd thousand years ago?I don't care what you say when a omnipotent being doesn't step in to correct something then that being would be at fault by ommission.If a policeman witnessed a mugging happen, and simply stood there and watched wouldn't you blame the cop for just allowing it.Then why is it that a almighty creator of the universe gets a pass?
@gamesmaster35 chad is correct, it is like when you go fill out paperwork at the dr. and they ask if there is any history of cancer in your family, because it is proven now you are at risk. if you understand that biblically/ spiritually, you know it is called a generational curse! the sins of the parents effect future generations to come unless you repent and give it to JESUS, only HE can remove it!
@pugandspencer1 One person cannot pay for the crimes of another.That's not justice.It's not righteous and it isn't good.I don't know where the disconnect is between spiritual matters and the real world.How something that we would clearly label wrong if practiced in the real world suddenly becomes alright when applied to religious matters.
@gamesmaster35 Actually, according to the barbaric, primitive, one-step-above-cavemen people who wrote the Old Testament (from which the gospels and Paul's insane babblings are derived) one person CAN AND SHOULD pay for the crimes of another. That's one of Christianity's big problems; you have to THINK like Conan the barbarian, but act like a civilized person. The cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming (unless you're a Navy SEAL like the guy in the video, he gets to act biblically sometimes.)
@gamesmaster35 you mean as far as a generational curse goes? it is satan who does this not GOD, once you sin its like an invitation to the devil to turn say bitterness from a personal matter into a cancer in your body! all you have to do is say some prayers renouncing it and its broken by the blood of JESUS, only nonbelievers struggle with this because they dont use GODS gifts, you just have to believe and have faith! ive broken curses of allergy, anxiety and heart disease in mine!
@pugandspencer1 Let's take your anology.Let's say the doctor here not only diagnosed me with cancer but he knew the cure for it as well.He tells me he can save me but only if I prove to be worthy of his wonder drug.He takes a look at my medical history to see if I ate right, exercised ,smoked, stayed out in the sun too long anything that might have caused my cancer and if he finds the slightest blemish in my medical record denies me the cure.Wouldn't you label this guy as unethical?
AHHAHAHAHAHa! this is hilarious."Honey, if you had to be run over by a big mac truck today today..." The "big mac truck of god's judgement". This is so strange and funny. But sorry, I could only watch to 6:25 before I had to stop. It's got just too much of the cringe-factor for me.
" we all deserve to go to hell "? That is the exact reason I left religion because it just fills you with guilt, and surpresses any logical free though. "just do as you told with no questions asked" sickening.
So, because two people thousands of years ago did the "wrong thing", millions of innocent babies are born with disabilities as punishment. Praise the Lo-wwwurrd!
Dude, I would have avoided the question if I were you.
@s8ist420 Yes because of the two people who sinned!! You don't want that to happen to the future generations?? DON'T HAVE KIDS FOR GOODNESS SAKES!! YOU THINK YOU'RE NOT DOING WRONG? THIS CRAP CAME TO YOU FROM YOUR PARENTS AND IS GOING FROM YOU TO YOUR KIDS!! DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SUFFER? DON'T GET MARRIED!! AND PROBLEMS WILL BE GONE!!
@lucky258i: If that makes sense to you, crazy or stupid are your only excuses. If that's the way "god's" mind works, it is beyond sadistic. Of course, God being imaginary makes a whole lot more sense to begin with. FWIW, some of my religiously devout and straight-and-narrow colleagues have children born with disabilities, so you and anyone who agrees or espouses this view is egregiously ignorant.
@s8ist420 I didn't ASK you if God is imaginary or not. That's your own opinion that you willingly oppress. Not mine. So stay OFF the topic of God is or not. I didn't say anything about that topic. What I said is if people want no pain in life then let them not get married and not have kids - they'll just die alone and its the end of the story, No? Then troubles are at your doors and don't blame anybody for them - you're giving live to others and they will to others and so the drama continues.
@lucky258i : "That's your own opinion that you willingly oppress....I didn't say anything about that topic"
Right. We must have been talking about something else. (That's called sarcasm.)
The idea that if they didn't want to suffer the tragedy of disease, deformity, and disability that they shouldn't breed is stupid and rather cold. If anyone can shame you into being a compassionate human being, they should. It seems religious belief has done the opposite by making you a sociopath.
It's actually very simple. There is no God and things like genetic mutations, injuries and environmental exposure to toxins result in people with disabilitites. Why complicate it by trying to construct a laborious explanation which diverts attention from the profoundly obvious? If your car doesn't "go," before asking God for an explanation, check the gas gauge.
A woman ate a fruit off a f***ing tree 6,000 years ago, and God is such a petty, immature child that he's unwilling to forgive that sin, even though the perpetrators are LONG dead.
Jesus' "Sacrifice" hasn't changed any of this, by the way. It's not like people who are "Christians" are immune to cancer and live 30 years longer.
The fact that you don't see how illogical and stupid this is truly sickens me. You are better than your god, you need to realize it.
@mattdyer0 Do not listen to this video.God loves you and everyone unconditionally.He never gets angry in the first place and he forgives your sins.The reason why people get punishments is because he wants us to learn:)Don't let this mislead your love for god :)i might just get back a nasty comment but thats okay :))
YOU ASSUME THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE DUE TO OTHERS SINNING? FIRST QUESTION, IS IT THE PARENTS OF THE DISABLE CHILD THE SINNERS TO CAUSE THE DISABILITIES OR IS SOME ONE ELSES SIN THAT CAN CAUSE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON TO BE DISABLE?
PLEASE ADDRESS THE FACT THAT ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH THAT ALL MAN IS BORN A SINNER, HOW COME ONLY SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN DISABLE IF WERE THIS "FALLEN STATE" AND DIDNT JESUS DIE FOR OUR SINS. YOU SEEM TO HAVE FORGOT THAT.
Hypothetically go along with me- "rational responder" if you have children and one of them was disabled would you say to yourself oh it's cool my child deserves this...he rightfully deserves to be disabled because adam sinned...my child who never spoke a word or did anything wrong but be born rightfully deserves to be disabled for something someone else did.....so is this what your saying?
Actually Christianity is not a direct result of what God created. If it was, got would have gotten the Bible right the first time rather than release the old testament. So handicapped people represent the fallen state we are in? And I suppose since you're so cute and friendly, you represent what God intended, before woman messed everything up. You sound so smug, and are really doing a disservice to mankind by head tripping the handicapped. You take away even more credibility from your religion.
So ... people with disability are born because their parents, ancestor, fellow human kind did something sinful before they was given birth. LOL. just stop and think for a moment. Is that really fair? Is that something an all-powerful/loving god would allow? I mean, when you're born, you get punished from what other people did. How is this fair?
Aithesis who think we were created by one cmeichal-Y do some of us have terrible illnesses and some don't? If we were ALL created from one same chemical reaction shouldn't we all be the same? Shouldn't we all look and seem the same? Shouldn't all of us have the same illnesses? You might say since God created us in his own image shouldn't we all be the same? This PROVES there is a more powerful being out there that can create anything he wants and has a purpose for that thing. God is the ANSWER
@TPTeddyBeaR ... mutation, thats why we shouldn't all have the same illnesses, and why we aren't all the same even if we come from the same chemical reaction. Crawl out from under your rock, you can't really believe what you do.
I actually have an ASD (I have asperger's syndrome) and I am a Christian, I find that this answer in this video is generally correct, as God cannot allow a trespass of His own standards, even if He is infinitely loving, which is in fact why He sent His Son. Anyway, I usually think that disabilities etc. exist because God may very well have a greater good come out of people having disabilities, we don't have that knowledge.
but wait, the whole crux of christian morality is that you can't use evil means to justify a good end. by your explanation, god would seem to be in violation of this...
I never thought of that as a crux in christian morality, and although it is wrong for humans to do, I am not sure about it being wrong for God, who can see all of history, especially if the good it brings far outreaches the smudge of bad stuff. In fact, if God didn't exist, then we would have no good basis for saying things are evil because there would be no objective morality to compare actions or circumstances to.
also, it's absurd to say that morality is objective or that morality couldn't have existed without god. the old testament says to stone children who curse their parents, and upholds slavery, but you don't. why not? because morality is relative. morality is simply the way that we act to stabilize our society. if i kill and rape people, i destabilize my society, which is bad for my own and everyone else's chances of survival. so morality "evolves" just as societies do.
but then quite simply everything would be allowed, and that itself would be absurd, we in our moral experience know objective moral values to exist and there is not a reason to doubt our moral experience.
Also for the cases of things in the old testament:
This is part of the law of Moses that you are quoting, and when Jesus died we were freed from the law of Moses, and instead of the law of judgment we are under the law of grace now, to put it simply.
Slavery was different in those days, it was a form of paying off your debt to the person you were enslaved to. it was a completely different context
not everything is allowed because if we act in ways that hurt the society then we are expelled from society. a healthy, functioning society has the right and duty to protect itself from threats to its survival...and it will. if i kill and rape people, do you think my genes will be passed on? do you think i'll even be allowed to continue living in this society? no. if i'm lucky i won't be killed, maybe i'll just be exiled. but i can' t do whatever i want...it will ultimately hurt me.
well, in rape your genes would be passed on, in fact lions do that quite often. And yeah you would be exiled, much like a man who runs around with a paper bag on his head, but that is only as bad as it is, it isn't actually morally wrong, it is just perhaps unacceptable on a social level. But if there are objective moral values, then things are actually wrong, as in it is actually morally evil, as opposed to being just socially unacceptable, and i believe that in our moral experience we see that
dude i think you're probably a smart guy, you just don't see what i'm saying. the dude may or may not impregnate the woman that one time, but after that he's getting locked up forever. that's because if we come together to live in community, we must all make compromises. i don't like getting my stuff stolen, and neither do you, and neither does anyone else. so we all come together and agree not to steal stuff. over time. and we have to enforce when people break this. does that make more sense?
ah i see what you mean. yeah i do agree that no one wants that stuff to happen to them, but that still doesn't mean that those stuff is morally wrong, it just makes it socially unacceptable, and that's what i'm defending
but what would you like to enforce morality if not the laws, prisons, etc. of societies? because i see no evidence of anything else...(cue heaven and hell discussion)
I am not saying that prisons etc. shouldn't be allowed or anything, quite the contrary! What I am saying is that if there are no objective moral values all the law is punishing is just anti-social behaviour, not wrong actions, because there would be no absolute right and wrongs, it would just be relative to society.
Morality is a code of ethics setting out right and wrong behaviour, and if morals arent objective then there would be no fair scale to weigh whether actions are right or wrong
if morals are objective then you would stone children who curse their parents, just as the bible says to do.
morality is more than socially-acceptable behavior. it is socially-necessary behavior. it is the only form of behavior that contributes to and builds up society. so we don't punish murderers because they are socially unacceptable; we punish them because they are socially malicious. However, our understanding of what constitutes justice changes over time, hence no stoning children now.
well no, if morals were objective that wouldn't be the case because the morality is that cursing your parents (or, in the context of the verse in question in Exodus, attacking your parents), but the punishment in the jewish context was death by stoning. And also, I agree that morals are valuable in keeping society together, anyone would, but what I am saying is that if morals aren't objective then that's all they are, and have no real value in the sense that things are really bad or good
no, but you see, the punishment itself we consider immoral but it was considered moral at the time. sure there are things that we always realized were bad for societal harmony (like cursing your parents) but realizing that killing children is wrong apparently came later.
so morality has changed over time, and i would argue for the better. why look to the bible, then, for your source of morality? we have better available to us if we just stop killing children. agreed?
you need to see the context. Look at this: Ex. 21:15 Exo 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
The hebrew term used is "Nakah", which in other contexts also means "kill, slaughter, kill, beat" etc. So it seems clear to me that this is implying attacking with intent to kill. I don't know much children realistically that do that, so isn't it also possible that this refers to adults attacking their parents?
apart from this, the Bible says again and again "think about what is pure and lovely" and "love your neighbour" and "turn the other cheek" and "let love be the center of your life", that seems to me pretty good morality
ah yep, I see it. However you need to understand that it is morally wrong to curse your parents, not just socially unacceptable. Yes, to modern eyes it may seen extreme to kill someone just because they curse their parents, I agree that it indeed is, but social context is important, and this was a completely different society than what we have today. Society is relative, morals aren't.
of course it's morally wrong. this is because such behavior clearly destabilizes societies. however, i would argue that inflicting the death penalty for such an action would NEVER be acceptable...unless you could come up with circumstances that would justify it? (just saying that, "society was different" doesn't justify it, btw) my point is that if the bible prescribes such horrible things, how can you look to it as a consistent source of moral guidance?
I don't quite have an answer for the old testament punishment problem myself, and I am actually still looking into the issue!
But lets forget that, and go back to the problem with objective moral values. If there are no objective values, why exactly do you have the right to say these things are unacceptable? After all, you are only judginng it by your moral standards. why is that a fair measure? This system obviously worked for them, so if there no objective values why is this wrong?
the standard of morality is what brings justice to the greatest number of people because this stabilizes society and helps everyone. if you would really like to argue that killing children can EVER be good for society, then i'll take you up on that.
certainly the israelites "survived" just as the U.S. "survived" when we had slavery. but it's not just survival -- it's what will bring our society to truly flourish.
but surely that is relative depending on the society, what brings the best amount of justice. There are plenty of different societies in many times who obviously did what they thought they felt was the best for their society, and with heaps of different mixes of justice!
This is the kind of jumble you get if there is no objective standard of morality, where it is simply based on what people think is okay and then it's just allowed
yes, our morality today is admittedly better because it has had more time to evolve. the people then were ruled by the powerful, and as such, often acted in ways that were not actually best for society (such as slavery). but there is objective morality in the sense that there is a way to act that will best help one's own society. this morality is subjective in the sense that it is slightly different from society to society. but are you arguing that killing children EVER helps society?
well no, but then you could say that murder in the case of a man living a hermit life would be fine if it would aid to his own survival. I believe that that is objectively wrong so that would never be okay in such a case, but if you accept relative morality then you have to accept circumstances where murder would actually be alright
no, because a hermit is not a society. morality is very simple: how can we help as many people as possible? the correct answer is to create a peaceful society, NOT to have everyone become a hermit and kill other people.
the optimal solution for individual survival is not to live as a hermit, but to live in such a way as to cooperate with one's neighbors/the community that emerges when others also adopt this meme.
the only way for communities and societies to survive is for people to act morally. my argument is that morality is not only essential for the community, but it is ultimately best for the individual. thus, it can be explained naturally.
okay thanks for the clarification. much appreciated!
I can see what you are saying, and that is fair enough. But it seems to me that you are trying to say that the roots of morality are in socio-biological adaptation, but that doesn't seem to me to explain away morals, in fact in the view of truly objective morality you could say thats how people came to understand objective morals! The Bible itself says that God's moral law was written on people's hearts so that is possible.
I would say that the only "objective" morality is survival of the individual and, by extension, the species. there are other universal principles that arise from this (e.g., don't murder), but even this is not absolute morality because we allow exemptions for things like self-defense, wars, duels (in the past), etc.
And if God's moral law is written on people's hearts, then why do we still need God to be moral? :p
I have a question anyway: If a completely different species evolved instead of human beings, where rape was okay for them, or even murder. Would that make murder or rape okay?
What do you mean by "okay" for them? Consider elephants. Elephants don't murder or rape each other because it would hurt the species. Even piranhas never eat each other. What possible kind of animal would benefit, or at least not be hurt by random, uncontrolled murder and rape? (Even those "barbaric" species which do occasionally cannibalize each other do so only rarely; otherwise they would die out. But it's still obviously not the "best" choice for that species' chances of survival.)
actually, this surprised me too, but dolphins have been known to kill young baby dolphins for no real reason. Also, Lions kill baby lions all the time if it was born to a different father.
Now, when i say objective, I mean in the sense that morals are separate entities to us, as in they are distinct from us. Much like colours, in the way that blue and red will always be blue and red, regardless of whether someone who is colour blind gets them confused (or anything) or not.
in the case of, as you say, "And if God's moral law is written on people's hearts, then why do we still need God to be moral? :p ", I am meaning that we don't need to believe in God to be moral, but if God did not exist, then those things wouldn't be moral at all. If God wasn't there to set those morals, then they wouldn't be binding :)
yes, there are exceptions to animal morality. but i never claimed that these actions are perfectly moral just as i can't point to any human society and say that they are always morally right.
i've tried to show throughout that morality can arise naturally, though, and refine itself over time. why is god required to explain anything?
well, I think God is necessary to show why morals are actually valid. If morals are relative (i'm pretty sure i've said this before) then they aren't really worth anything. For example, if they are social structures or "herd morality", then why follow them? there is no reason to think other people have value. Also, if this is true, then why shouldn't we treat animals as equal to us? If we are just animals as the atheist says, then not treating animals equally is just specieism and unfair
if i don't follow the social structure, i hurt myself. that is, the idea that the way for me to really be happiest is to be moral. by not killing or stealing from people, i'm doing my part to build my reputation and relationships with others and create a society of nonviolence and respect for property where everyone can thrive. we are, obviously "higher" than the other animals in the sense that we can perceive the world more deeply than they can. there is a sort of animal hierarchy. BUT...
all animals do this. piranhas won't eat each other, but they'll eat almost anything else. and so on...we try to protect our own genes, and by extension our own species, first. it's just the way that evolution by natural selection works.
but such a philosophy ironically does lead to a greater respect for animals than most religions, which treat them as divinely-given objects of consumption. by the way, a disproportionately high number of atheists are vegetarians (although I am not personally).
I getcha. But When I am referring to the issue of animals, I mean that if you are to accept atheism and straight evolutionary theory then humans have no intrinsic value. We are no better than animals. Sure, we are more advanced, but that isn't any good grounds for treating animals less than us, which is what humans do on a daily basis. Not just in eating animals, but in domesticating them and keeping them as pets, or even using them for our own purposes ie. hunting
why is it important that we be "better" than other animals?
but i would say that, because as humans our perception of life is richer than that of an animal, i would say it has somewhat *more* value. but keeping animals as pets, etc. does not equal keeping them below us somehow. also, i would say that although a mentally disabled person should still be cared for, etc. because his life still has value. he can still experience life to the best of his ability. besides...
we're actually surprisingly close to being able to cure people in comas, the mentally disabled, etc. etc. so there' s no reason to kill people right on the brink of it. plus, people do randomly "snap out of" comas, mental illness (i'm thinking autism), etc. etc. so if we kill them prematurely...you see what i'm saying.
yep, I see what you're saying, and that's good, but what if, say, there was a person who was a total detriment to society, and he had lived that way his whole life, and even if he would turn his life around and change his ways and become a good person, the net average on his social goods/ills would never become positive, would it be okay to get rid of him then?
Also, I will continue on the animals issues for a bit, if thats cool :)
If we are only creatures, as naturalism asserts, why do we act better than animals? for example, why should we have pets, instead of living equally with their animals and let them do what they want? We are all animals and we have no justifiable reason to act better than them, or live above them, so what justification is there to do so?
how is having pets putting yourself *above* them? unless you beat your cat or something, your cat is just fine. actually, he thinks he's above YOU because you give him food.
a bit more seriously, though, i do see what you mean. but my point is that every species puts its own good above all others; it's just the way competition and natural selection work. that being said, us killing all cats would probably be bad for us, so we don't do it because cats have value to us. and we have value to cats.
yep I get what you mean, but what about where animals can't benefit us, say tigers? survivally it would be positive to wipe then out, because they are dangerous to the survival of the human race. There are plenty of other examples, but I will use this one. What are your thoughts?
well, there is one thing we agree on, tigers are pretty cool!
But I hope you see my point, any hunter of people, or a threat to human life (take another example, hippos, they are rediculously dangerous (I was shocked when I learnt that actually!)) should be destroyed if your worldview is correct. Even if it does mess up the ecosystem, why do we need to look after that?
preserving the ecosystem as a whole is an essential component of human survival. have you heard that if bees went extinct, we would all be horribly screwed? simply destroying species is stupid, wasteful, and extraordinarily risky and unknown. sometimes hippos kill people, i've heard that too. but sometimes people kill people. so should we kill all people? lol
well, no we shouldn't but on naturalism, the purpose is to get people to survive as a species right?
I am not sure if that would mean the human race would be screwed. the ecosystem might do, but if humanity could cultivate its own food, ie. domestic cattle etc. then would we as a species need the ecosystem? (I am not sure if my ignorance for this is showing or not!)
yeah, we're not at the point where we can just start messing with the whole balance of things like that and expect to come out just fine. killing all tigers would probably hurt us more than it would help us.
besides, killing all tigers is a big deal, because once they're gone, they're gone forever (except for some future cloning possibility, i suppose). but i guess my second point here is that there's no reason to just start killing stuff randomly.
haha you actually sound a lot like a good friend of mine!
I do understand what you mean, but if survival is the centre of our morality, then that still raises issues. There are places where animals are more of a danger than other places, so say we don't kill them off, but exterminate them in areas where it would be profitable to human survival to do so?
eliminating germs entirely would actually be bad. just like eliminating roaches or tigers entirely would be bad. but we just clear them out of where we are, just as you could say they try to clear us out of where they are. every species pulls for its own side, that's all.
i'm saying that we should screw with the balance as little as possible. this may seem like something of a reversal from my original position, but we outmatch all the other animals so badly right now. we have the capability to pull too hard on the balance of things -- without even realizing it -- and wreck it permanently. in any case, how is this relevant lol?
Sadly yes. He is speaking of one of the PRIME tenants of Christianity: Self-Loathing. They call it "Original Sin" and use it as an excuse for why their imaginary deity creates Stupid Design by turning the blame on humanity and saying it is OUR FAULT. Christians hate themselves and project that self-loathing on all other humans. Its a morose mental delusional state of being.
I'M WONDERING WHY THIS GUY HAS NOT REPLIED TO ANYONE, IT'S EASY TO READ A STORY FROM A BOOK. BUT IT SHOWS THAT HE DOSENT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR OTHER PEOPLE REPLY'S
Don't get so caught up with the Christian mind control telling us we're all bad because we exploit free will. If god is all knowing, he should have known how we would use our free will. We couldve been given free will without being given greed and selfishness, etc. If god made us good we wouldnt be bad. according to the bible he punished us for behaving poorly even though he knew we would do that before he even created us. If he's all powerful, he wouldnt have messed up with people.
dbower8272 1 month ago
Awesome, "The truck of god's judgement."
capoman1 1 month ago
Hey, if babies are born with disabilities because of what the man has done with his free will, why does the baby have to suffer? Why does God have to be so unfair to those that have done nothing wrong in their life? Kids that have disabilities would most likely get fun of at school and suffer from depression and might as well end their own life from all the suffering. Can someone please answer my question?
ShekkiGa 2 months ago
what is the preachers name
nana5730 2 months ago
So God makes newborns with disabilities because of others' mistakes? How can any sane person be ok with this?
DustinTROM 2 months ago
Since the "fall", every person born has had some form of disability-most minor, some major.
I strongly believe that those with severe limitations and struggles will have it better, plus having a higher standing in the afterlife~ if they have Christ.
kub73158 3 months ago
*BUZZ* sorry, the correct answer is - he doesn't. Disabilities are the result of genetic anomalies, imperfect fertilization, or injury in utero; all of which are unfortunate natural incidents and have nothing to do with divine forces. Your delusions are legendary.
KevinReconAlpha 4 months ago
When you suffer the agonizing pain that never ever abates because your child has a disablity, please post another video. When you see other children run from your child because he not like them; when you discover your child has been treated badly by people you trusted to care for him; when the school tries every trick they can to isolate your disabled child from the general population, please post another video.
whymine01 4 months ago
Uh oh. You setup a trap for yourself. So why did God create man to be able to disobey him? He, of course, knew this would happen. Doesn't that mean he wanted some people to be born with disabilities? Oh, so many holes...
DustinTROM 4 months ago
Why can't we all just get along? I know it has nothing to do with this video but come one people, women are from earth, men, are from earth. Now deal with it.
2111jade 4 months ago
This is like the blind leading the blind. You can't have someone with a mental disability (Chad has a psychological disorder called "Religious Delusional Schizophrenia- RDS") explaining the reasons people are born with disabilities.
mjfraser04 5 months ago
So some people deserve to be disabled because some fucking naked retard ate a fruit 6000 years ago, you gotta love religious stupidity. Just darn right shameful
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
God doesn't create people with disabilities. A disability is created either when the parents abuse drugs and alcohol, or if the genes from a parent don't combine property at conception. Its also the chemicals in water, food, and in the air as well.
smurfboywv 6 months ago
@smurfboywv i guess god isnt powerful enough to prevent that. Not every child with disabilities have reckless parents. And why to children deserve to suffer because of what their parents have done? A moral perfect and all powerful god would prevent that and sense he doesn't he either doesn't exist or is not all moral or all powerful.
Jaym505 6 months ago
@Jaym505 Its not God's job to fix mans mistakes.
smurfboywv 6 months ago
@smurfboywv what mistakes? being who "god" made us to be?
Jaym505 6 months ago
@Jaym505 OUR mistakes, chemicals getting into pregnant women to cause illness to babies.
smurfboywv 6 months ago
@smurfboywv Well god made the chemicals and the female reproductive system. i guess you are too blind to see the connection lol. It sounds like it is our job to fix gods mistakes that he made while making us and our environment, which proves that an all powerful and all moral god doesn't exist.
Jaym505 6 months ago
@Jaym505 WRONG man created the chemicals. Man causes its own problems.
smurfboywv 6 months ago
@smurfboywv Disabilities always existed dumbass, chemicals didn't start it, stop hating on human beings you freak.
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin Wow, that was so nice, I see you're a loving person. LOL God will forgive you if you ask.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
@smurfboywv You don't deserve any respect, you're a boderline sociopath, nobody can think human beings deserve eternal damnation because of the mistake of an ancestor and not be a sociopath.the I won't ask an imaginary God for forgiveness, I will ask the people I my have offended for forgiveness. That's another reason why you christians are sociopath, you blieve that if you ask your god for forgiveness anything you do no matter how bad i fine, that's how we end up with tragedies like in Norway.
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin Well i'm sorry to see that you don't want to go to Heaven.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
@smurfboywv Sorry bro but there are hundreds of Heaven stories at there, right now you could be wrong and go to Islamic hell or Jewish hell, aren't you scared about that? They have just as much chance at existing as your idea of hell.
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin Man made religions have no value.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
@smurfboywv Oh and cristianity isn't man-made? LOL
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin No such thing.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
@smurfboywv Christianity is man-made, wether you like it or not.
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin Christianity is nothing more than a title. Jesus was not christian, but he preached the gospel, and thats all that matters.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
@smurfboywv Well no real evidence suggests that mate.
Reasonwillwin 5 months ago
@Reasonwillwin No evidence doesn't suggest it either. People think they are christian when they are haters. So many people deceive themselves.
smurfboywv 5 months ago
all because man was punished for a sin(eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil), before man even knew what sin was. This is because before eating the fruit of knowledge they did not have that knowledge so deserving of punishment. I guess god wanted us stupid and to not know what we are doing, whether it be good or evil.
do you realize how far you have to bend over backwards and say things that don't make logical sense to answer these question?
I used to be the same way.
Jaym505 9 months ago
@Jaym505 You have to really think things out before you believe them and not just believe what people say. Think about it, is it really logical that people are being born with mental illnesses because of the story of adam and eve?
Jaym505 9 months ago
@Jaym505 "all because man was punished for a sin(eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil), before man even knew what sin was." We are suffering because of OUR sin. the result is initiated from them, but you sin against God.
xchampx 8 months ago
@xchampx From "OUR sin"? Why are people born with disabilities and illnesses. Thanks for replying and trying to clear it up, but the last time i checked you are unable to sin in the womb.
Jaym505 7 months ago
@Jaym505 All of us are born in sin.
smurfboywv 6 months ago
@smurfboywv and how do you know that is true?
Jaym505 6 months ago
@xchampx So God the "all loving" damns his own creation by placing a temptation infront of them without knowing human nature itself? Then for ever longer all humans decendant from the stupid woman that tricked the man into eating what was right there infront of him, is damned because of what they did? Whats the point of worshiping a god that damned you on conception regardless?
hotwhire 3 months ago
rationalresponder, Sorry I couldn't sit through any more than a couple of minutes of watching your wrinkled brow and face contorted in faux concern. You're as transparent as a ghost.
I really hope one day you are healed from your own disability and develop some authentic thoughts and feelings.
Hufflewaffle 10 months ago
@Hufflewaffle
LMAO.
bluemoonrising26 9 months ago
It always vexes me that atheists express so much hate for a God that they don't even believe in. Talk about a waste of breath.
Danthemanlyman7 11 months ago
@Danthemanlyman7 How could they use time on a god they don't BELIEVE IN? That gives no meaning. What they do is trying to make people understand that there IS NO GOD.
If you are told that there is a red and green carpet made out of diamond of the name Hakkodd that made the Universe, would you believe it? Probably not. Why then should you believe that God exists because of the Bible? Why not believe in Islam, Sikhism or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Why not believe in Harry Potter or Atlantis?
Bearsca 10 months ago
@Danthemanlyman7 who says hate is ever expressed? just because someone doesn't believe in what you do, doesn't make them hate it automatically
SteamingBurito 9 months ago
father adam sin is not my sin my sin is not your sin and by the way adam sin been forgiven so we will not be judge for his sin. if jess is the one who forgive why he did not forgive sin of adam who is b4 him so people will be living good life with no Disabilities or any thing bad? reed quran you know why
abduallahhassan 11 months ago
Fuck humanity and fuck heaven/hell
They all suck
If you disagree then tell me why they don't!
twobitwackjob 11 months ago
Thank you ...
rocksinharris 1 year ago
lol @ this video. This is so fucking ridiculous. Did you watch this video yourself? Please do. Jesus Christ!
IstillOwnAvcr 1 year ago
Rom 5:18 There4, as thru 1 man’s offense judgment came 2 all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through 1 Man’s righteous act the free gift came 2 all men, resulting in justification of life. Rom 6:17 God b thanked that though u were slaves of sin, yet u obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine 2 which u were delivered. 18 having been set free from sin, u bcame slaves of righteousness.
So what about the disabled who r believers?
julzabro 1 year ago
WHAT!?! So people with disabilities didn't come from Adam n Eve and are not the image of your God but r disabled due to sin?!?! How do they deserve to b BORN this way if THEY didn't sin? I thought ur god didn't punish the children 4 the sin of the fathers anymore? God put us in a fallen state and He IS to blame. HE made and placed the Tree and HE KNEW what the outcome would be!
julzabro 1 year ago 2
Why did you respond to a video without answering all the questions?
extrovertedthinker 1 year ago
wow this is so powerful
Jorge007dr 1 year ago
Oh thank you, thank you very much for all the answers.......one point that i need to be told is how you have all the answers and btw god gave us freewill you idiot...do you listen to yourself after and have you ever heard of inteligence!
IIKON1994 1 year ago
Oh thank you, thank you very much for all the answers.......one point that i need to be told is how you have all the answers and btw god gave us freewill you idiot...do you listen to yourself after and have you ever heard of inteligence!
IIKON1994 1 year ago
wow, i dont know whether you are brainwashed, borderline insane or just super creepy. People like you scare me.
elkadir70 1 year ago
I have a disability called Arthrogryposis, which limits the movement of my arms and legs. I recently learned one of the reasons God made me disabled. When people are taking care of me: they are also serving God. I find this very uplifting because when I get upset about being disabled, I think of how God is using me to help others.
guilkayl 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"I gave you free will so you can disobey me, but if you do, I will give you disabilities!"
FinnMCR 1 year ago
We don't have to understand the answer to the question, because the question itself is flawed, assuming that God is the one making people. I'm not going to go 8th grade health class on you and explain the chemical reactions that make human beings, but I will go ahead and explain that disabilities are caused by mutation, toxicity, and sometimes, who you mate with. You literally just said that disabled people are born because of sin. That's very hateful mister.
BigLundi 1 year ago
lol now I wanna see your answer as to why god doesn't heal amputees?
MirageScience 1 year ago
Interesting.
demondagger19 1 year ago
Actually, why does it matter so much about why God created people with disabilities? First of all, some disabilities, I am sure, are becuase mothers smoke or do things that are not supposed to be done. Second, a disability is not a curse, is it? I mean, look at Stephen Hawking! Look at Susan Boyle! So, disabilities are not a curse, they are burdens that are hard to carry, but not a curse. I mean, if you have a relative with a disability, do you find them a curse or a blessing?
comeonfolks 1 year ago
why don't you gouge your eyes out to see what a blessing it is?
deemon8 1 year ago
@ 3:38, you asked "who has it worse - the disabled person or the rich and famous one?" Your reasoning seems to be that the disabled person is more likely to set his eyes on "heaven" or whatever.
To me, offering "heaven" as compensation for physical/mental disability is like taking away my Ferrari and offering me a 10-pound bag of beans as "compensation" (with the threat of an eternal ass-kicking if I don't accept the goodness of this "trade" on blind faith.) Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
bjggjb 1 year ago
I have nearsightedness in both eyes, and all I have to say to "Yahweh" is:
"FUCK YOU, and fuck your long-haired faggot of a son for creating me with messed-up vision. And fuck you both for creating disabilities in general."
Hey - no lightning bolt, I'm still here? My computer didn't even crash. I guess Christianity is a big, steaming pile of crap after all...
bjggjb 1 year ago
@bjggjb one day, on judgement day ,you will have to answer for what you said here!GOD will ask you, why you refuse to believe when HE sent you sooo many messages. the bible, evangelicals like chad, and im sure if you look back on your life, other situations, and you will be judged, i will pray your heart softens for the gospel.everything youre looking for can be found in JESUS. just try, HE wont ever let you down!
pugandspencer1 1 year ago
Comment removed
bjggjb 1 year ago
@pugandspencer1 @pugandspencer1 The "messages" your sky fairy sent me have been pretty vague, chief.
What gets me is the sheer arrogance of this guy; one of our country's elite warriors, a man gifted with perfect health - straying from his area of expertise to babble sanctimonious nonsense about disabled people "having it better" than the rich/famous? What a presumptuous prick. As I mentioned elsewhere, this guy needs to stick to killing our foreign enemies and leave the philosophy alone.
bjggjb 1 year ago
@bjggjb GOD can take a broken man and use HIM to further HIS kingdom, did u know that the son of sam is now an evangelical born again believer with his own ministry in prison? it took going to prison, to save his soul! now he dedicates his life to help all prisoners find salvation through JESUS!
daGODhour 1 year ago
@daGODhour Well ain't that just freakin' swell. The family members of "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz's victims get 2 choices if you're right:
A. Be tortured forever in "hell"
B. Hang out and be friends with Son of Sam forever in "heaven" (*puke*) - along with Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and every other scumbag criminal who got "born again" in prison hoping to get clemency from the parole board (or their sentences commuted.)
I think I'll take a pass on that offer, thank you very much.
bjggjb 1 year ago
@pugandspencer1 One more thing. Assuming your god is who/what Christians claim he/it is, why would he/it need to ask me ANYTHING on "judgement day"? In fact, he/it knew I'd reject him/it before I was born, so why did he/it bother creating me?
bjggjb 1 year ago
@bjggjb exactly my point, HE is a merciful, wonderful GOD, who even though HE knows all, still created us with free will to reject HIM if we choose and at the same time loving us all equally. it saddens HIM to have to be a just judge on judgement day, but HE always gives us an opportunity to hear the gospel to repent and change. i used to be a completely different person, GOD changed me just like HE did to chad
daGODhour 1 year ago
@bjggjb OH SNAP, BEEN RESPONDING ON MY HUBBIES CHANNEL AND NOT PUGAND SPENCER1, OH WELL, I WROTE BACK TO ALL ON HIS DAGODHOURS CHANNEL!OOPS!
daGODhour 1 year ago
Are you serious??So God essentially punishes a innocent person for what 2 people did some odd thousand years ago?I don't care what you say when a omnipotent being doesn't step in to correct something then that being would be at fault by ommission.If a policeman witnessed a mugging happen, and simply stood there and watched wouldn't you blame the cop for just allowing it.Then why is it that a almighty creator of the universe gets a pass?
gamesmaster35 1 year ago
@gamesmaster35 chad is correct, it is like when you go fill out paperwork at the dr. and they ask if there is any history of cancer in your family, because it is proven now you are at risk. if you understand that biblically/ spiritually, you know it is called a generational curse! the sins of the parents effect future generations to come unless you repent and give it to JESUS, only HE can remove it!
pugandspencer1 1 year ago
@pugandspencer1 One person cannot pay for the crimes of another.That's not justice.It's not righteous and it isn't good.I don't know where the disconnect is between spiritual matters and the real world.How something that we would clearly label wrong if practiced in the real world suddenly becomes alright when applied to religious matters.
gamesmaster35 1 year ago
@gamesmaster35 Actually, according to the barbaric, primitive, one-step-above-cavemen people who wrote the Old Testament (from which the gospels and Paul's insane babblings are derived) one person CAN AND SHOULD pay for the crimes of another. That's one of Christianity's big problems; you have to THINK like Conan the barbarian, but act like a civilized person. The cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming (unless you're a Navy SEAL like the guy in the video, he gets to act biblically sometimes.)
bjggjb 1 year ago
@gamesmaster35 you mean as far as a generational curse goes? it is satan who does this not GOD, once you sin its like an invitation to the devil to turn say bitterness from a personal matter into a cancer in your body! all you have to do is say some prayers renouncing it and its broken by the blood of JESUS, only nonbelievers struggle with this because they dont use GODS gifts, you just have to believe and have faith! ive broken curses of allergy, anxiety and heart disease in mine!
daGODhour 1 year ago
@pugandspencer1 Let's take your anology.Let's say the doctor here not only diagnosed me with cancer but he knew the cure for it as well.He tells me he can save me but only if I prove to be worthy of his wonder drug.He takes a look at my medical history to see if I ate right, exercised ,smoked, stayed out in the sun too long anything that might have caused my cancer and if he finds the slightest blemish in my medical record denies me the cure.Wouldn't you label this guy as unethical?
gamesmaster35 1 year ago
You`re such a callous turd, RR.
JPWMT 1 year ago
The truck of god's judgment...funny stuff.
Nocturnalux 1 year ago
you should change your name to the Irrational Responder
bigmike4758 1 year ago
Is this guy one of those "Edward Current" guys? Y'know.....making fun of Christianity by mimicking a profoundly stupid "christian."
dave4248 1 year ago
AHHAHAHAHAHa! this is hilarious."Honey, if you had to be run over by a big mac truck today today..." The "big mac truck of god's judgement". This is so strange and funny. But sorry, I could only watch to 6:25 before I had to stop. It's got just too much of the cringe-factor for me.
iridescentsquids 1 year ago
" we all deserve to go to hell "? That is the exact reason I left religion because it just fills you with guilt, and surpresses any logical free though. "just do as you told with no questions asked" sickening.
MyBidas 1 year ago
So, because two people thousands of years ago did the "wrong thing", millions of innocent babies are born with disabilities as punishment. Praise the Lo-wwwurrd!
Dude, I would have avoided the question if I were you.
s8ist420 1 year ago
@s8ist420 Yes because of the two people who sinned!! You don't want that to happen to the future generations?? DON'T HAVE KIDS FOR GOODNESS SAKES!! YOU THINK YOU'RE NOT DOING WRONG? THIS CRAP CAME TO YOU FROM YOUR PARENTS AND IS GOING FROM YOU TO YOUR KIDS!! DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SUFFER? DON'T GET MARRIED!! AND PROBLEMS WILL BE GONE!!
lucky258i 1 year ago
@lucky258i: If that makes sense to you, crazy or stupid are your only excuses. If that's the way "god's" mind works, it is beyond sadistic. Of course, God being imaginary makes a whole lot more sense to begin with. FWIW, some of my religiously devout and straight-and-narrow colleagues have children born with disabilities, so you and anyone who agrees or espouses this view is egregiously ignorant.
s8ist420 1 year ago
@s8ist420 I didn't ASK you if God is imaginary or not. That's your own opinion that you willingly oppress. Not mine. So stay OFF the topic of God is or not. I didn't say anything about that topic. What I said is if people want no pain in life then let them not get married and not have kids - they'll just die alone and its the end of the story, No? Then troubles are at your doors and don't blame anybody for them - you're giving live to others and they will to others and so the drama continues.
lucky258i 1 year ago
@lucky258i : "That's your own opinion that you willingly oppress....I didn't say anything about that topic"
Right. We must have been talking about something else. (That's called sarcasm.)
The idea that if they didn't want to suffer the tragedy of disease, deformity, and disability that they shouldn't breed is stupid and rather cold. If anyone can shame you into being a compassionate human being, they should. It seems religious belief has done the opposite by making you a sociopath.
s8ist420 1 year ago
It's actually very simple. There is no God and things like genetic mutations, injuries and environmental exposure to toxins result in people with disabilitites. Why complicate it by trying to construct a laborious explanation which diverts attention from the profoundly obvious? If your car doesn't "go," before asking God for an explanation, check the gas gauge.
TV843 1 year ago 2
So, let me get this straight:
A woman ate a fruit off a f***ing tree 6,000 years ago, and God is such a petty, immature child that he's unwilling to forgive that sin, even though the perpetrators are LONG dead.
Jesus' "Sacrifice" hasn't changed any of this, by the way. It's not like people who are "Christians" are immune to cancer and live 30 years longer.
The fact that you don't see how illogical and stupid this is truly sickens me. You are better than your god, you need to realize it.
mattdyer0 1 year ago
@mattdyer0 Do not listen to this video.God loves you and everyone unconditionally.He never gets angry in the first place and he forgives your sins.The reason why people get punishments is because he wants us to learn:)Don't let this mislead your love for god :)i might just get back a nasty comment but thats okay :))
pavsharm 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wow seriously....this kid would NOT want to meet me....but I would LOVE to school him....
EEP54 1 year ago
Wow seriously....this kid would NOT want to meet me....but I would LOVE to school him....
EEP54 1 year ago
YOU ASSUME THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE DUE TO OTHERS SINNING? FIRST QUESTION, IS IT THE PARENTS OF THE DISABLE CHILD THE SINNERS TO CAUSE THE DISABILITIES OR IS SOME ONE ELSES SIN THAT CAN CAUSE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON TO BE DISABLE?
PLEASE ADDRESS THE FACT THAT ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH THAT ALL MAN IS BORN A SINNER, HOW COME ONLY SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN DISABLE IF WERE THIS "FALLEN STATE" AND DIDNT JESUS DIE FOR OUR SINS. YOU SEEM TO HAVE FORGOT THAT.
myksgrl 1 year ago
Hypothetically go along with me- "rational responder" if you have children and one of them was disabled would you say to yourself oh it's cool my child deserves this...he rightfully deserves to be disabled because adam sinned...my child who never spoke a word or did anything wrong but be born rightfully deserves to be disabled for something someone else did.....so is this what your saying?
PAfootball2929 2 years ago
Actually Christianity is not a direct result of what God created. If it was, got would have gotten the Bible right the first time rather than release the old testament. So handicapped people represent the fallen state we are in? And I suppose since you're so cute and friendly, you represent what God intended, before woman messed everything up. You sound so smug, and are really doing a disservice to mankind by head tripping the handicapped. You take away even more credibility from your religion.
Chadfish 2 years ago
God was created in the IMAGE OF a MAD MAN
xephyr1000 2 years ago
So ... people with disability are born because their parents, ancestor, fellow human kind did something sinful before they was given birth. LOL. just stop and think for a moment. Is that really fair? Is that something an all-powerful/loving god would allow? I mean, when you're born, you get punished from what other people did. How is this fair?
itskelvinkkc 2 years ago
This was pathetic. Period. Total jibberish.
scottphegley 2 years ago
Aithesis who think we were created by one cmeichal-Y do some of us have terrible illnesses and some don't? If we were ALL created from one same chemical reaction shouldn't we all be the same? Shouldn't we all look and seem the same? Shouldn't all of us have the same illnesses? You might say since God created us in his own image shouldn't we all be the same? This PROVES there is a more powerful being out there that can create anything he wants and has a purpose for that thing. God is the ANSWER
TPTeddyBeaR 2 years ago
@TPTeddyBeaR ... mutation, thats why we shouldn't all have the same illnesses, and why we aren't all the same even if we come from the same chemical reaction. Crawl out from under your rock, you can't really believe what you do.
RedBunny 2 years ago 2
oh, so my brother is autistic because someone once ate an apple. are you serious?? what an angry god.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago 4
I actually have an ASD (I have asperger's syndrome) and I am a Christian, I find that this answer in this video is generally correct, as God cannot allow a trespass of His own standards, even if He is infinitely loving, which is in fact why He sent His Son. Anyway, I usually think that disabilities etc. exist because God may very well have a greater good come out of people having disabilities, we don't have that knowledge.
God bless, Forrest
forresttreepan 2 years ago
but wait, the whole crux of christian morality is that you can't use evil means to justify a good end. by your explanation, god would seem to be in violation of this...
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I never thought of that as a crux in christian morality, and although it is wrong for humans to do, I am not sure about it being wrong for God, who can see all of history, especially if the good it brings far outreaches the smudge of bad stuff. In fact, if God didn't exist, then we would have no good basis for saying things are evil because there would be no objective morality to compare actions or circumstances to.
forresttreepan 2 years ago
so god isn't be moral?
also, it's absurd to say that morality is objective or that morality couldn't have existed without god. the old testament says to stone children who curse their parents, and upholds slavery, but you don't. why not? because morality is relative. morality is simply the way that we act to stabilize our society. if i kill and rape people, i destabilize my society, which is bad for my own and everyone else's chances of survival. so morality "evolves" just as societies do.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
but then quite simply everything would be allowed, and that itself would be absurd, we in our moral experience know objective moral values to exist and there is not a reason to doubt our moral experience.
forresttreepan 2 years ago
Also for the cases of things in the old testament:
This is part of the law of Moses that you are quoting, and when Jesus died we were freed from the law of Moses, and instead of the law of judgment we are under the law of grace now, to put it simply.
Slavery was different in those days, it was a form of paying off your debt to the person you were enslaved to. it was a completely different context
forresttreepan 2 years ago
not everything is allowed because if we act in ways that hurt the society then we are expelled from society. a healthy, functioning society has the right and duty to protect itself from threats to its survival...and it will. if i kill and rape people, do you think my genes will be passed on? do you think i'll even be allowed to continue living in this society? no. if i'm lucky i won't be killed, maybe i'll just be exiled. but i can' t do whatever i want...it will ultimately hurt me.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well, in rape your genes would be passed on, in fact lions do that quite often. And yeah you would be exiled, much like a man who runs around with a paper bag on his head, but that is only as bad as it is, it isn't actually morally wrong, it is just perhaps unacceptable on a social level. But if there are objective moral values, then things are actually wrong, as in it is actually morally evil, as opposed to being just socially unacceptable, and i believe that in our moral experience we see that
forresttreepan 2 years ago
dude i think you're probably a smart guy, you just don't see what i'm saying. the dude may or may not impregnate the woman that one time, but after that he's getting locked up forever. that's because if we come together to live in community, we must all make compromises. i don't like getting my stuff stolen, and neither do you, and neither does anyone else. so we all come together and agree not to steal stuff. over time. and we have to enforce when people break this. does that make more sense?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
ah i see what you mean. yeah i do agree that no one wants that stuff to happen to them, but that still doesn't mean that those stuff is morally wrong, it just makes it socially unacceptable, and that's what i'm defending
forresttreepan 2 years ago
but what would you like to enforce morality if not the laws, prisons, etc. of societies? because i see no evidence of anything else...(cue heaven and hell discussion)
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
stated differently, what is morality other than doing things that help other people and not doing things that hurt them?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I am not saying that prisons etc. shouldn't be allowed or anything, quite the contrary! What I am saying is that if there are no objective moral values all the law is punishing is just anti-social behaviour, not wrong actions, because there would be no absolute right and wrongs, it would just be relative to society.
Morality is a code of ethics setting out right and wrong behaviour, and if morals arent objective then there would be no fair scale to weigh whether actions are right or wrong
forresttreepan 2 years ago
if morals are objective then you would stone children who curse their parents, just as the bible says to do.
morality is more than socially-acceptable behavior. it is socially-necessary behavior. it is the only form of behavior that contributes to and builds up society. so we don't punish murderers because they are socially unacceptable; we punish them because they are socially malicious. However, our understanding of what constitutes justice changes over time, hence no stoning children now.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well no, if morals were objective that wouldn't be the case because the morality is that cursing your parents (or, in the context of the verse in question in Exodus, attacking your parents), but the punishment in the jewish context was death by stoning. And also, I agree that morals are valuable in keeping society together, anyone would, but what I am saying is that if morals aren't objective then that's all they are, and have no real value in the sense that things are really bad or good
forresttreepan 2 years ago
no, but you see, the punishment itself we consider immoral but it was considered moral at the time. sure there are things that we always realized were bad for societal harmony (like cursing your parents) but realizing that killing children is wrong apparently came later.
so morality has changed over time, and i would argue for the better. why look to the bible, then, for your source of morality? we have better available to us if we just stop killing children. agreed?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
you need to see the context. Look at this: Ex. 21:15 Exo 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
The hebrew term used is "Nakah", which in other contexts also means "kill, slaughter, kill, beat" etc. So it seems clear to me that this is implying attacking with intent to kill. I don't know much children realistically that do that, so isn't it also possible that this refers to adults attacking their parents?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
apart from this, the Bible says again and again "think about what is pure and lovely" and "love your neighbour" and "turn the other cheek" and "let love be the center of your life", that seems to me pretty good morality
forresttreepan 2 years ago
yes, great, but i'm talking about leviticus 20:9
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
ah yep, I see it. However you need to understand that it is morally wrong to curse your parents, not just socially unacceptable. Yes, to modern eyes it may seen extreme to kill someone just because they curse their parents, I agree that it indeed is, but social context is important, and this was a completely different society than what we have today. Society is relative, morals aren't.
forresttreepan 2 years ago
of course it's morally wrong. this is because such behavior clearly destabilizes societies. however, i would argue that inflicting the death penalty for such an action would NEVER be acceptable...unless you could come up with circumstances that would justify it? (just saying that, "society was different" doesn't justify it, btw) my point is that if the bible prescribes such horrible things, how can you look to it as a consistent source of moral guidance?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I don't quite have an answer for the old testament punishment problem myself, and I am actually still looking into the issue!
But lets forget that, and go back to the problem with objective moral values. If there are no objective values, why exactly do you have the right to say these things are unacceptable? After all, you are only judginng it by your moral standards. why is that a fair measure? This system obviously worked for them, so if there no objective values why is this wrong?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
the standard of morality is what brings justice to the greatest number of people because this stabilizes society and helps everyone. if you would really like to argue that killing children can EVER be good for society, then i'll take you up on that.
certainly the israelites "survived" just as the U.S. "survived" when we had slavery. but it's not just survival -- it's what will bring our society to truly flourish.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
but surely that is relative depending on the society, what brings the best amount of justice. There are plenty of different societies in many times who obviously did what they thought they felt was the best for their society, and with heaps of different mixes of justice!
This is the kind of jumble you get if there is no objective standard of morality, where it is simply based on what people think is okay and then it's just allowed
forresttreepan 2 years ago
yes, our morality today is admittedly better because it has had more time to evolve. the people then were ruled by the powerful, and as such, often acted in ways that were not actually best for society (such as slavery). but there is objective morality in the sense that there is a way to act that will best help one's own society. this morality is subjective in the sense that it is slightly different from society to society. but are you arguing that killing children EVER helps society?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well no, but then you could say that murder in the case of a man living a hermit life would be fine if it would aid to his own survival. I believe that that is objectively wrong so that would never be okay in such a case, but if you accept relative morality then you have to accept circumstances where murder would actually be alright
forresttreepan 2 years ago
no, because a hermit is not a society. morality is very simple: how can we help as many people as possible? the correct answer is to create a peaceful society, NOT to have everyone become a hermit and kill other people.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
to state it a bit differently:
the optimal solution for individual survival is not to live as a hermit, but to live in such a way as to cooperate with one's neighbors/the community that emerges when others also adopt this meme.
the only way for communities and societies to survive is for people to act morally. my argument is that morality is not only essential for the community, but it is ultimately best for the individual. thus, it can be explained naturally.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
okay thanks for the clarification. much appreciated!
I can see what you are saying, and that is fair enough. But it seems to me that you are trying to say that the roots of morality are in socio-biological adaptation, but that doesn't seem to me to explain away morals, in fact in the view of truly objective morality you could say thats how people came to understand objective morals! The Bible itself says that God's moral law was written on people's hearts so that is possible.
forresttreepan 2 years ago
I would say that the only "objective" morality is survival of the individual and, by extension, the species. there are other universal principles that arise from this (e.g., don't murder), but even this is not absolute morality because we allow exemptions for things like self-defense, wars, duels (in the past), etc.
And if God's moral law is written on people's hearts, then why do we still need God to be moral? :p
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I have a question anyway: If a completely different species evolved instead of human beings, where rape was okay for them, or even murder. Would that make murder or rape okay?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
What do you mean by "okay" for them? Consider elephants. Elephants don't murder or rape each other because it would hurt the species. Even piranhas never eat each other. What possible kind of animal would benefit, or at least not be hurt by random, uncontrolled murder and rape? (Even those "barbaric" species which do occasionally cannibalize each other do so only rarely; otherwise they would die out. But it's still obviously not the "best" choice for that species' chances of survival.)
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
actually, this surprised me too, but dolphins have been known to kill young baby dolphins for no real reason. Also, Lions kill baby lions all the time if it was born to a different father.
Now, when i say objective, I mean in the sense that morals are separate entities to us, as in they are distinct from us. Much like colours, in the way that blue and red will always be blue and red, regardless of whether someone who is colour blind gets them confused (or anything) or not.
forresttreepan 2 years ago
in the case of, as you say, "And if God's moral law is written on people's hearts, then why do we still need God to be moral? :p ", I am meaning that we don't need to believe in God to be moral, but if God did not exist, then those things wouldn't be moral at all. If God wasn't there to set those morals, then they wouldn't be binding :)
forresttreepan 2 years ago
yes, there are exceptions to animal morality. but i never claimed that these actions are perfectly moral just as i can't point to any human society and say that they are always morally right.
i've tried to show throughout that morality can arise naturally, though, and refine itself over time. why is god required to explain anything?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well, I think God is necessary to show why morals are actually valid. If morals are relative (i'm pretty sure i've said this before) then they aren't really worth anything. For example, if they are social structures or "herd morality", then why follow them? there is no reason to think other people have value. Also, if this is true, then why shouldn't we treat animals as equal to us? If we are just animals as the atheist says, then not treating animals equally is just specieism and unfair
forresttreepan 2 years ago
if i don't follow the social structure, i hurt myself. that is, the idea that the way for me to really be happiest is to be moral. by not killing or stealing from people, i'm doing my part to build my reputation and relationships with others and create a society of nonviolence and respect for property where everyone can thrive. we are, obviously "higher" than the other animals in the sense that we can perceive the world more deeply than they can. there is a sort of animal hierarchy. BUT...
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
all animals do this. piranhas won't eat each other, but they'll eat almost anything else. and so on...we try to protect our own genes, and by extension our own species, first. it's just the way that evolution by natural selection works.
but such a philosophy ironically does lead to a greater respect for animals than most religions, which treat them as divinely-given objects of consumption. by the way, a disproportionately high number of atheists are vegetarians (although I am not personally).
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I getcha. But When I am referring to the issue of animals, I mean that if you are to accept atheism and straight evolutionary theory then humans have no intrinsic value. We are no better than animals. Sure, we are more advanced, but that isn't any good grounds for treating animals less than us, which is what humans do on a daily basis. Not just in eating animals, but in domesticating them and keeping them as pets, or even using them for our own purposes ie. hunting
forresttreepan 2 years ago
why is it important that we be "better" than other animals?
but i would say that, because as humans our perception of life is richer than that of an animal, i would say it has somewhat *more* value. but keeping animals as pets, etc. does not equal keeping them below us somehow. also, i would say that although a mentally disabled person should still be cared for, etc. because his life still has value. he can still experience life to the best of his ability. besides...
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
we're actually surprisingly close to being able to cure people in comas, the mentally disabled, etc. etc. so there' s no reason to kill people right on the brink of it. plus, people do randomly "snap out of" comas, mental illness (i'm thinking autism), etc. etc. so if we kill them prematurely...you see what i'm saying.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
yep, I see what you're saying, and that's good, but what if, say, there was a person who was a total detriment to society, and he had lived that way his whole life, and even if he would turn his life around and change his ways and become a good person, the net average on his social goods/ills would never become positive, would it be okay to get rid of him then?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
Also, I will continue on the animals issues for a bit, if thats cool :)
If we are only creatures, as naturalism asserts, why do we act better than animals? for example, why should we have pets, instead of living equally with their animals and let them do what they want? We are all animals and we have no justifiable reason to act better than them, or live above them, so what justification is there to do so?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
how is having pets putting yourself *above* them? unless you beat your cat or something, your cat is just fine. actually, he thinks he's above YOU because you give him food.
a bit more seriously, though, i do see what you mean. but my point is that every species puts its own good above all others; it's just the way competition and natural selection work. that being said, us killing all cats would probably be bad for us, so we don't do it because cats have value to us. and we have value to cats.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
yep I get what you mean, but what about where animals can't benefit us, say tigers? survivally it would be positive to wipe then out, because they are dangerous to the survival of the human race. There are plenty of other examples, but I will use this one. What are your thoughts?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
killing tigers would screw up whole ecosystems. and tigers are medicine and food to the indigenous. and even pets. and tigers are pretty cool.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well, there is one thing we agree on, tigers are pretty cool!
But I hope you see my point, any hunter of people, or a threat to human life (take another example, hippos, they are rediculously dangerous (I was shocked when I learnt that actually!)) should be destroyed if your worldview is correct. Even if it does mess up the ecosystem, why do we need to look after that?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
preserving the ecosystem as a whole is an essential component of human survival. have you heard that if bees went extinct, we would all be horribly screwed? simply destroying species is stupid, wasteful, and extraordinarily risky and unknown. sometimes hippos kill people, i've heard that too. but sometimes people kill people. so should we kill all people? lol
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
well, no we shouldn't but on naturalism, the purpose is to get people to survive as a species right?
I am not sure if that would mean the human race would be screwed. the ecosystem might do, but if humanity could cultivate its own food, ie. domestic cattle etc. then would we as a species need the ecosystem? (I am not sure if my ignorance for this is showing or not!)
forresttreepan 2 years ago
yeah, we're not at the point where we can just start messing with the whole balance of things like that and expect to come out just fine. killing all tigers would probably hurt us more than it would help us.
besides, killing all tigers is a big deal, because once they're gone, they're gone forever (except for some future cloning possibility, i suppose). but i guess my second point here is that there's no reason to just start killing stuff randomly.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
haha you actually sound a lot like a good friend of mine!
I do understand what you mean, but if survival is the centre of our morality, then that still raises issues. There are places where animals are more of a danger than other places, so say we don't kill them off, but exterminate them in areas where it would be profitable to human survival to do so?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
we do; see antibiotics.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
ah, touche :) but if this is the case then what is so wrong about killing larger animals?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
eliminating germs entirely would actually be bad. just like eliminating roaches or tigers entirely would be bad. but we just clear them out of where we are, just as you could say they try to clear us out of where they are. every species pulls for its own side, that's all.
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
I see. So you are suggesting that it is okay to push tigers to endangerment?
forresttreepan 2 years ago
i'm saying that we should screw with the balance as little as possible. this may seem like something of a reversal from my original position, but we outmatch all the other animals so badly right now. we have the capability to pull too hard on the balance of things -- without even realizing it -- and wreck it permanently. in any case, how is this relevant lol?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
does that make any sense?
ecumenopolis0 2 years ago
"the right perspective".
Ignorance, stupidity, limited perspective, intentional rejection of rational thought, incomprehensible drivel.
hinesjt 2 years ago
Is this guy for real? Seriously???
Wow. Yeah, my cousin has Downs Syndrome because some lady talked to a snake and ate some forbidden fruit. Yeah, that sounds logical.
ZLNewton 2 years ago 10
@ZLNewton
"Is this guy for real? Seriously???"
Sadly yes. He is speaking of one of the PRIME tenants of Christianity: Self-Loathing. They call it "Original Sin" and use it as an excuse for why their imaginary deity creates Stupid Design by turning the blame on humanity and saying it is OUR FAULT. Christians hate themselves and project that self-loathing on all other humans. Its a morose mental delusional state of being.
xephyr1000 2 years ago
I'M WONDERING WHY THIS GUY HAS NOT REPLIED TO ANYONE, IT'S EASY TO READ A STORY FROM A BOOK. BUT IT SHOWS THAT HE DOSENT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR OTHER PEOPLE REPLY'S
myksgrl 1 year ago
Short answer-
he didn't.
That is really the most likely answer.
blackarrow125 2 years ago