Tertullian-"Pontifex Maximus"-a RESPONSE to JAMES WHITE II

[topheronline]

We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard.” Augustine, The True Religion, 7:12 (A.D. 390)

[topheronline]

[a]nd so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. (Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus, 4:5,5:6 (A.D 397).

Orthodox and Protestants can't deny the fact that the only church today that is popularly called "CATHOLIC" is ROME...

[hoffabrando]

The reason the bible calls her a WHORE is because she left her husban, (what do you mean,) instead of being in union with he husban Christ, and perching the kingdom of god,

Shes in an unlawful union with the state (politics) and going about building a KOUNTERFIT KINGDOM OF GOD, one of religion and politics.

[hoffabrando]

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH as we know it to day is not the catholic church, of A D 200 WHY BECAUSE THE STATE

WERE KILING THEM, THERE WAS NO RILIGION AND POLITICS in the early church

[hoffabrando]

gnrhead IF THATS ALL YOU CAN SAY,

THEN YOUR A GOAT,THAT FOLLOWS MEN, AMD HAS AS MUCH kNOWLIDGE

AS YOUR CHURCH GIVES YOU NIL.

[gnrhead]

You're a nutcase. It's hilarious reading your nutcase comments.

[StSimonOfTrent]

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

- Martin Luther

Jesus Christ Established a Church—Not a book—to be the Foundation of the Christian faith

(Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20)

'You are Peter and Upon This Rock, I will build My Church'

Matthew 16:18

You are Peter

Not I am Christ

This rock, my church...theres No Plural

Go away Prot Heretic

[StSimonOfTrent]

Protest-ants lecture us on demonic false Ecumenism.

Take Your Universal salvation Apostacy away and kindly leave us alone

Outside the church, No Salvation, no sanctification, no remission of sins

Those who die under perpetual curse of biblical Anathema, descend directly into Hell after death. TO BE SAVED YOU MUST HAVE PERFECT CONTRITION, PERFECT CONVERSION & HOLD PERFECTLY THE ON TRINITARIAN PUBLIC PROFESSION OF PROXIMATE FAITH, OR AT LEAST A PERFECT DESIRE FOR IT

[mythicreaper]

"Catholic" in the early church does not equal "modern Roman Catholic church". Your quote of Ignatius shows nothing of the sort of Roman primacy you claim it does. There were hundreds of bishops. You have not proven that the bishop of ROME had primacy over ALL other bishops. THAT is not found in the church fathers. PROVE it if you think it is.

[curvalecce]

This presentation is interesting, but I feel it would be stronger if you could control your feelings more. The subject is obviously crucial, but calmness is a virtue...

[patrissimo]

The eminent 19th century Baptist "theologian" Augustus Strong wrote: "Cyprian was the first to establish clearly the distinction between presbyters and bishops and the primacy of the Roman church as the Cathedra Petri."

- "Systematic Theology"

[MattFiction]

Wow!!! Of all my historical research, no one else has nailed it as much as you sir! Great job!! Keep the fight on!! 5 STARS!!

[Arrsht]

Why don't you just simply call the Dividing Line Live program and discuss this so that there can be an exchange/interaction rather than just blasting someone from behind the monitor? This is a rhetorical question and hence I do not desire a response.

[formeragnostic]

I'm not sure what happened to my other reply but I had also stated that all your quotes from the ecf pertaining to the "catholic" church were moot and did not answer James White's response. Why do I say this?Because "catholic" as used by the early fathers in its context simply meant "universal" and not "Roman Catholic" as the term is understood today and as James White had stated. grn, if you purchased and read the early fathers you would see this.

[gnrhead]

And I replied to that comment, the Early Church was CATHOLIC, their beliefs and doctrines match up to the modern Catholic Church's, not yours. Where's Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura in the Early Church? Nuff Said

[gnrhead]

If I purchased and READ the Early Fathers? Please, don't try to parrot Mr. White's words. You seem like a White cronie more than anything else. WATCH my videos, if you did so you'd know that I have the COMPLETE Early Fathers edition in BOOK format AND on my PC and LAPTOP and on ONLINE material! I've studied the early Church, they were NOT Protestant!

[damildlyshreddah]

Just curious but if the beliefes and doctrines match up to the modern Catholic Church could you perhaps point out where the Bodily Assumption for exampel is taught as a dogma?

[Apologist325]

White didn't say the early Church would not have understood the concept of "Catholic." He said "Roman Catholic", and he's right. Second, the idea of universal jurisdiction in the ancient Church was alien to the fathers. Cyprian, Athanasius, Basil, the Council of Trullo, etc rejected Pope Stephen's view toward Baptism. Had Stephen had a clearly understood and defined primacy over all, there would not have been disagreements. The east followed Cyprians view of baptism.

[TrakSumraka]

Great work, brother.

Pax Christi!

[ivette0321]

Great job on your response videos!

[formeragnostic]

All born again Christians today, were they living in the 1st few centuries would all be considered "catholic" according to the simple meaning and context of the word as used by the early fathers. In this context James White, myself and all protestants would be considered part of the "universal" or "catholic" church.

[gnrhead]

False. If you want to be considered part of the Ancient Church you're gonna have to actually follow the TEACHINGS of the Early Church. Following SOLA FIDE/SOLA SCRIPTURA, two doctrines that were created by Martin Luther does NOT keep you in LINE with the early CATHOLIC CHURCH. Period

[PatristicEchoes]

With all due respect, if you denied the Eucharist, primacy of the pope, the Trinity, perpetual virginity of Mary, communion of Saints,etc... you would have been labled a heretic.

In the early church periods, there were many sects that believed in Christ but denied essential beliefs of the faith. They were outside of the true Church just as Protestants are today. So, your assertion, while well intentioned, is incorrect.

[XSC3]

Parts 3 & 4 have "malformed ID's"... I presume that means they are still "uploading" (youtube is still "updating")?

[stinkybonjour]

wow

thats all i can say really