Palin Linked To Secessionist Movement

[RebelGuy95]

The very fact that she'd address such a group, even if it was just pandering for votes, indicates that she extends to them some level of legitimacy. The A.I.P. is illegitimate, considering the fact that they don't even comprehend the compact (contract) nature of the Constitution.

[Capitalist09]

Ok you fucking marxist dumbass, My uncle is a professor of criminology in Chicago where he lives, and he used to see (during the late 90's and 00's) Bill Ayers and Barack Obama walking and talking constantly.

[Ovito85]

@Capitalist09 and? your beloved sarah wants to seperate from the us

[Capitalist09]

@Ovito85 Oh well, Obama is basically selling this country. Texas has the legal right to secede. They were a country at one point. For one, the federal reserve is illegal. 2nd, Arizona is enforcing the constitution by securing the U.S. border, While our Black Panther President is sucking Calderones Dick while Mexicos govt. continues to put people in jail for 5 years for being illegal. I can tell you. If Obama enforces martial law, the country will divide. My loyalty is not with this regime.

[Capitalist09]

@Ovito85 Oh and 3rd, I don't like Sarah Palin. She was hand-picked by Soros as John McCain to lose and get the commie in office.

[Capitalist09]

@Ovito85 Sarah Palin and some secessionist movement has nothing to do with the fact that Obama has had close ties to such a radical like Ayers.

[retusyllib]

Every dumb ass is entitled to their oppinion.

[TheAlaskan42]

i like the AIP just learned about neo confederates but i like the idea these seccsesions could keep america a live just like the roman empire america has grown to big will colaps from corruption and unloyal citisins i like the AIP to seperate it could save america heck the founding fathers wanted us to rebel if america got to currupt and thats what there doing. i love america but there just to big

[retusyllib]

The Democrates and Liberal media are petrified at the thought of Sarah Palin becoming President. What they don't get is that your hate of her makes us love her that much more. We love to see you try to slam her. It makes me laugh and pissed off at the same time. Dems, Libs, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, and HLN can all go to hell in a handbasket.

[im1greatman]

Do you here this news guy. haha

Hey buddy who do think made the United States?

I think we have the right to leave it or possibly abolish it if we see fit.

[xonoma]

You realize the only state that can legally do that to this day is Texas right? Or are you again another one of the uneducated right wing nut cases that think if they bring an assault rifle to a town hall meeting it will accomplish something?

[im1greatman]

xonoma

You do realize that the United States of America was founded by the "States".

The federal government has broken the contract on numerous occasions. Once that was done they relinquished any type of power over to the States and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[MockStoneLLC]

Shutup you dang Liberal! I know you all LOVE THAT COMMIE OBAMA but do NOT hate on america, jsut go move to communist russia where you'll feel at home!

The "EXTREMIST" groups are not anti government, they are anti-BIG GOVERMENT! america was made to have a SMALL government! and what is wrong with pro-gun you nazi?!

[R0thbard]

Compulsory Government is cancer...if it is small, it will grow until an economic and social collapse...

[xonoma]

Please get an education. I am nice enough to correct your epic failures.

Shut up you dang Liberal! I know you all love that commie (LOLWUT?) Obama but do not hate on America ( Oh so your a patriot who cant be bothered to capitalize our countries first letter to display the importance.), just go move to communist Russia ( Russia is not communist anymore this isn't the 1960's bud. ) where you'll feel at home!

The "extremist" groups are not anti government, they are anti-anything democratic.

[xonoma]

On second thought there is far too many epic failures in your single comment that I cannot correct it all in one message and I cannot be bothered to do the rest.

It saddens me to know my entire family has fought for this country sense the Civil war. Every man in my family has been in the military on both sides including my self very soon and they have given their lives or damn near given their lives for uneducated pricks such as your self. Your level of intelligence is a disgrace.

[Vladimast]

secession may not be there answer, i think more of a 'french revolution' style is in order. FIRE THE FEDERAL GOV. THEY FUCKIN SUCK. THEY NEED REPLACED TOTALLY.

[P5Y0P]

here comes the propaganda from the MSM, if you have problems with the federal government's reckless disregard for the Constitution you are an extremist and possibly a terrorist.

[P5Y0P]

long live the Republic of Texas!

[redneck1036]

ahahahahahaha!! so? whats the big deal if she is? i support secession.....whats so wrong with excercizing constiutional rights? uh oh, im talking about SECESSION and my own political views, is there anything wrong with excercizing my freedom of speech or YOUR freedom of thought deathjoker666? come on now........states have a constiutional legal right to seceede. at least palin has balls to stand up for our rights.

[mikevanross69]

i agree,

[seboyle]

Where exactly in the Constitution is this right to secession? I've had a quick glance through and I can't find it. Your help is needed.

[SgtGross]

It is among the powers reserved to the States in the 10th Amendment. Thus, it is still alive and well today in several States like Oklahoma, Texas, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, just to name a few. Most of which have already put the fedgov on notice by passing 10th Amendment legislation. Also, not State has to abide by a federal law if the law is not provably Constitutional.

[seboyle]

Hmmm.. I don't read it that way. Can't see any obvious right to secession outlined there.

Implied powers??

Do you not think that the Founding Fathers, that 'assembly of demi-gods', might have been more explicit about secession if they had thought that it ought to be included in the Constitution? Some process by which secession would be constitutionally legal (along the lines of constitutional amendments perhaps?).

In fact might amendment (Article V) not be the appropriate process?

[SgtGross]

What is the world does Article V have to do with the Bill of Rights? You view of the Founders, as uneducated as it is, shows that you know nothing about the true history and founding of this nation. This is why people like you cannot understand that the fedgov was not the one that formed the nation -- it was the States that formed both the nation and the fedgov. They formed it, and they reserve the right to alter it or end it and start new. That is why the 10th.

[seboyle]

Taking your points in order:

I was suggesting that the amendment process might be the place to look for the process through which secession might take place consitutionally. The reason being that you have to use some seriously implied powers to get a constitutional right to secession from Amendment X which simply says nothing of the sort.

I am perfectly aware that the federal government did not form the nation or indeed itself. I agree that both were formed by the states. However, (cont)

[seboyle]

nowhere, as far as I can see did they include a constitutional right to secede from the new union that they had formed.

Interestingly you then bring up the right to alter or end it and start new, words strikingly similar to Jeffersons the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, to institute new Government. Here I would agree with you but this is a (natural) right to revolution (secession) not a constitutional one. It cannot be constitutional unless it is clearly laid out (cont)

[seboyle]

in the Constitution, including the process by which a state can leave (and it isnt). I have no problem whatsoever with the natural right to revolution (though that bring with it its own set of problems as to when secession is justified).

Finally, I know enough about the Founding Fathers and the founding period to know that it's tricky to draw generalisations about motives and ideas. Nonetheless I also know that Madison (who authored the Xth Amendment) did not believe there was a (cont)

[seboyle]

constitutional right to secession (though he readily accepted, as I do, the natural right to revolution). So much for your: "That is why the 10th."

I may be many things but uneducated on the founding period and constitutionalism I am not. Please try to be a little more polite next time, then we could maybe have a good discussion and both of us might actually get a deeper understanding of the issues. Otherwise it simply becomes a name calling exercise and no-one gains anything.

Thanks. :-)

[SgtGross]

If you understand the Constitution and the manner in which the fedgov was formed, then you understand that it is very much like shareholders forming a corporation. Should any shareholder disagree or for whatever reason, he can leave the shareholders and the corporation.

In other words, what the States formed, they can leave or dismantle, as the case might be. That is why the rights and powers are not specified -- it would take too long to do so. But, a little logic works just fine.

[seboyle]

This is hugely debatable but I'll have to get back to you on you on it. I remember coming across the shareholders vs. contract (as others believe the Constitution is more similar to) argument before but I cannot for the life of me remember where. I'll have a scout around. In the meantime maybe someone else could fill us both in?

'Ambiguity was the price of unanimity', yes some sections of the Constitution are vague, but something as important as secession?

[SgtGross]

And, what ultimately is the difference between secession and revolution? They both result in the same thing -- the eventual dissolution of the fedgov. I'm not sure that this will ever happen, but I do know that there are many States now telling the fedgov to stick in their collective ear and rotate. Texas, Oklahoma, Idaho, New Hampshire, Montana, and many others. They are all passing X Amendment legislation. The feds are really going nuts -- and the media is mum.

[seboyle]

Between the two words in terms of one group/region/nation/whatever leaving another? Very little. However, the point that I objected to is the use of 'constitutional right' by Redneck 76. The difference between a constitutional right to secession and the natural right to revolution is enormous. One is a legal/ positive right written into (constitutional)law, the other is a theoretical or philisophical theory (as used by the Founding Fathers in 1776). They are world's apart.

[seboyle]

While we here I can't resist bringing up something you said earlier: "Also, no State has to abide by a federal law if the law is not provably Constitutional". Who makes that decision? The US Supreme Court. If you make the answer to be the states themselves then you're creating what Danile Webster called 'a rope of sand' for a constitution. You're surely not going to argue that the Founding Fathers had that intention? If you are then I suggest you read a little on Washington et als motives.

[seboyle]

Also, what is your position on the IX Amendment? I presume (possibly wrongly, forgive me if I am in error) that you disgree with the implied rights coming from this amendment? e.g. Griswold v Connecticut or Roe v Wade? My question is how do you square this with your reading of the X Amendment? It seems to be that you are implying a right in the Xth, one it's author certainly did not think was there.

[seboyle]

The natural right to revolution requires its own justification. Read the Dec. of Ind., Jefferson et al were very careful in laying out a long list of the reasons for their right to leave Great Britain. In a nutshell though they can be summed in that wonderful phrase 'no taxation without representation'. Now the US is a democracy that changes the whole argument and the justification becomes way more difficult. However, if it were a constitutional right, only the const. criteria would need be met.

[SgtGross]

seboyle, the Constitution speaks of rights not enumerated or listed. The first 10 amendments are not all of the rights that we have. Moreover, we do have the right to tell the fedgov to get back in place, if only we would. The Founders did not give us a top down government -- we won the war to end our slavery to such a government. They didn't want a central government that could not be controlled.

Recall Franklin's words -- we have given you a Republic if you can hold on to it.

[seboyle]

I don't disagree with any of this. My disagreement is that secession is one of those unenumerated rights.

For me the burden of proof is upon you to show that it is. Madison didn't think it was there, nor has any Supreme Court opinion. It's up to you to convince people like me that it exists and, at the moment, I don't see much to change my mind. When the US Supreme Court reads it that way then I'll take it that way. That's how the system works on controversial &/or constitutional arguments.

[SgtGross]

The fedgov is no longer treating the nation as if it were a representative Republic. They tell us that we are a democracy -- our Founders are spinning in their graves at this. They hated democracy -- it is MOB rule.

Now we have an Adminiistration where people believe such things as political power comes from the barrel of a gun. We have a Congress that refuses to listen to the people -- they make fun of them and ignore their issues. There is no redress of grievances. We are in trouble, big.

[seboyle]

Well... maybe. I don't see it though (I doubt you're surprised at that, lol).

As for the democracy comments.

1. You are a democracy. Yes, you are a representative democracy but you are still a democracy.

2. The FF's did not 'hate' democracy. Some welcomed it fairly warmly (e.g. Jefferson), some were more fearful of the mob rule you so rightly point out but IMO they were all supporters of the general idea of democracy, even Hamilton.

3. Therefore they instituted the limiting Constitution.

[seboyle]

Cont..

Our disagreement is over whether there is a constitutional right to secession which is what I raised my original objection to.

You think you're being tyrannised, I don't. You think your government is unresponsive. I don't. You think your government is too large. I'm not sure on that one but I can accept your position on it.

However, a workable representative democracy of your size (indeed of any size) will require those not in the majority opinion to accept it with grace.

[seboyle]

Cont...

That is one of the other major disagreements I think we have. I have a view of democracy (representative, constitutional or otherwise) that acknowledges that some will never get what they want within the system. That is the price of democracy but I also subscibe to Churchill's view that it is the best of a bad bunch or the 'least worst' option. It's not perfect, far from it. Nor can it ever be.

Our third disagreement IMO is how to deal wiht that fact of permanent minority views.

[seboyle]

Cont...

You seem to want to change the system. I think the system is pretty good and works pretty well. It has done so for a couple of hundred years and more and, historically, that's really something. I would be loathe to radically change it. I would prefer to work within the system to change it. Don't forget the FF's left the possibility of constitutional amendment and other means of change (e.g. legislation, US Supreme Court Opinion). That's the method I would use and rely on.

[deathjoker666]

palin if this is true. she can leave this country if she doesn't like it.

[mikevanross69]

many other states are talking about the same thing, looks like u gotta go.

[SYNPlaymaker88]

Lol, like succession is a bad thing, it's as American as apple pie.

Succession or fascism and nationalization? I'll take succession every time.

[RandyWayneFricke]

Can you believe this BULLSHIT media propaganda??? Secession NOW. The FED is DEAD! (No to mention that it's a total fiction.)

[disturbedone5009]

i know. i was thinking of joining my schools debate team. what do you think?

[Argonaut22j]

You should join because then you might actually learn how to debate.

Its called "guilt by association" and its not an argument that anyone takes seriously, except people who don't know how to argue.

[disturbedone5009]

well seeing as how most of his associates are ex terrorists, afro centric racist preachers or tax evaders i thing he is showing he is not a very good at character judgment.

[Argonaut22j]

That's a huge generalization and the rest is just speculation.

Speaking of tax evaders, why aren't you critizing these Tea-Baggers if you're so American?

[disturbedone5009]

you mean the people that actually paid their taxes but are protesting the government blowing the money on bullshit all in the name of economic stimulus? i agree with them. if i knew where to go for a tea party, as in boston tea party, i would have.

[grillurnuts]

The 1 thing you'll learn quick is...you will never win in their mind...you can show the numbers, bring forth the truth...and they will just dance around it or bring up A WHOLE DIFFERENT topic and try and relate it to make you wrong...but...good luck...high schools these days...ugh id smack someone...

[disturbedone5009]

Yeah I know. I just like to start arguments with people because its fun.

I graduated high school but college isn't going much better with all the budget cuts in the CSU system.

[disturbedone5009]

yeah well i guess it takes that to get the liberals heads out of their asses.

[meetman3]

Lets move to Alaska and help them make it sucessful!

[rochha]

I will move to Alaska if they are sucessful!

[disturbedone5009]

non relationship with bill ayers? the man launched his political career at bill ayers home and served on the joyce foundation with him. they have known each other for a long time. he even admitted it.

[Annette1313]

WOW! Sarah Palin's husband belonged to the AIP? COOL!

I didn't know that....I voted for her last year but now I will REALLY vote for her when she runs again in 2012!

SECESSION NOW! FREE DIXIE, FREE PENNSYLVANIA, FREE NEW HAMPSHIRE!

[filmjoyce]

His mom is white/his white grandparents raised him/his black father (actually mostly arab) was never in the picture but Wright's church who praises Farrakan was his mentor as well as Frank Marshall Davis (member of US Communist Party); why do you think Hillary got the popular vote! Not every Dem is blind. Chicago Mob Political Machine: CORRUPT!

[repoman59]

dum yankes on this stuped video yes we want out of amreican it doesnt obay any or the constitunail ammends. and if any one got a problem with this post then i will leave you comrads to your new solisest cuntry!

free dixie!!!!

[Tombstone8782]

You guys hate Obama because he's black and he's not an uncle Tom.

[chetansingh2006]

correct all replican conservative got major dissenter of white southener to their party after LBJ pased the civil rights bill and they are racist, xenophobic , liberal right and dismantled all tradeunion movements thanxs to Barry Goldwater

[filmjoyce]

Tombstone8782

I am so over stupid ass race card BS statements like yours. People have ideological differences and didn't want the most liberal Senator (who voted over 100 times present)to be POTUS. Also one the MSM didn't vet but blew sunshine out of his ass.

[BLESSEDone333]

Obama was born in Kenya according to his father's mother - this election is a fraud. Obama can not legally hold office. This guy can't be president because it is against the constitution

[bkishar]

Move to Alaska, secede from the Union, and create your own ultra-conservative hick country.

[crazyed4]

Hey, sounds good to me. Better than living with with marxist and socialists

[bkishar]

Marxists? You people are a hopeless cause. I'm glad our generation is in charge now and you'll see the kind of strong and proud America we'll build.

[17Revolution76]

Do you really think our generation will build a strong America? 90% of my generation cares more about voting for the next American Idol than the President of the United States. We listen to a dozen men for a few weeks, narrow it down to two, spend another few weeks getting to know these men and then act as if we've known them our entire lives. This two party system is a farce and our generation has no say in anything that goes on.. being naive will get us no where.

[17Revolution76]

And I did support Obama more than McCain, so don't worry; I'm not bashing the guy for being an African American or because FOX news says he's a "socialist." I just don't trust politicians as far as I can throw them.. and I'm a skinny guy so that's not very far.

[filmjoyce]

bkishar

Aren't you from Canada? Obama said his mentor growing up was Frank Marshall Davis who is a member of the US Communist Party. Your generation was indoctrinated by Marxist College Professors...proven! Also love his other mentor Rev Wright; who gave Farrakan a hero award.

[freein2339]

Did you pack your bags to move to Alaska yet...??? Didn't think so...

[Graymalkin2001]

Obama's "non-relationship" with Bill Ayers?

Still in denial. huh?

If ignorance is bliss, you must be one blissful SOB.

Secession was a right from our founding until Lincoln succeeded in "proving" it was not - at a cost of 600,000 lives.

Lincoln himself spoke of the RIGHT of secession in 1853.

The TRAITOR was Lincoln, you indoctrinated moron!

[math1106]

A "traitor" that keeps a nation together? You're an idiot and you obviously don't understand what the word traitor means.

[gjohnson87109]

┏┫　┏┓　┏┓　┣┓　┃┃

┗┫　┃　┣┛　┏━━┻┃obama/ 08!　┃　┗━━━┛　┃　┣━━　┃　┗━━━┳━━━┛　┣━━　┃　┏━━▇▇▇━━━━━┻

[BLESSEDone333]

you just said it was okay for a non citizen to be the president

[1jazzsinga]

Palin = lipstick on a domestic terroist

Palin at the least has ties to domestic terroists for real. This makes Sarah dangerous.

[runkaballe]

This is so funny, your fucking VP candidate is a fucking traitor and terrorist. And people a bullshitting about Obama

[Craigmin]

Secession is 'traitorous'? Have you read the Declaration of Independence?

[runkaballe]

Yes, they want to break free from the US and it´s imperial laws.

[bkishar]

Then do it already and leave the rest of us civilized peoples alone.

[hackerblaster]

Is Sarah Palin trying to help the AIP infiltrate Washington? interesting story.

[inuitwoman]

You guys are a joke! You paint a picture so far from reality I can only believe you are complete idiots or lieing on purpose. You deserve Obama and your NWO socialism. It will never work in Alaska, just too many people capable of independent thought.

[Pssnmeoff]

Independent Whacko Thought.

Who gives a shit about Alaska, the inbreeding capitol of the country...let Russia have them.

You, know you can see Russia from there, dontchaknow.

[math1106]

Sarah Palin isn't even capable of independent thought. Thats why her husband is so heavily involved in her work and doesn't have a job of his own!

[USAisaREPUBLIC]

What I want to know is; why are this two not mentioning anything about Obama and Bill Ayers.

[ThePatriotsMaxims]

Why aren't they mentioning Mccain's connection to mobster Joseph Bonanno?

Why aren't they mentioning McCain's association with domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

Maybe because this video is about AIP, Einstein

[boumar19721972]

watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg

[kaesantiago]

I'm an Independent voter, and I use to like John McCain, but unfortunately he has become like those that he once condemned. He hired Steve Schmidt who is Karl Rove's protege. I've lost great respect for McCain, uses his POW status politically, when he has a D rating with Veterans, suggests that Obama supporters spew the same hate at their rallies, but I've never heard the Obama supporters say death threats at John McCain!!

[pixiedustrawrxoxo]

Palin-Does not believe in separation of church and state, stands for animal cruelty, requires her husbands assistance to run alaska, liar, cheater, abuses her power and has no ethics. Now, she is also known for involving in cessationism. Sarah, you're darn right you need to move out of this country! but you wll never divide it!

[gjohnson87109]

To pixiedust: You forgot to include the following quals:

*Adultress(Cheated with husband's best friend)

*Accepted bribes that can be linked to Sen. Ted Stevens.(House built for free)

*Not the mother of Trig(Bristol is!)

*Believes women of rape and incest cannot abort and, must pay for their own rape kits.

*High End Panhandler. Accpted $150,000 clothing allowance.

*Under achiever: 6 colleges for a journal degree!

[filmjoyce]

LOL... Good Lord! Did you ever research anything or do you usually get your news from the Nat'l Enquirer? This shit has already been disproven as shit but the Nazi MSM did their jobs. Morons like you believe anything they hear. Also, where's Nobama's school records? 6colleges, lol...that's what ppl that work full time and go to school do; go when they can afford. She finished!

[dralavant]

My Final Verdic: Sarah Palin, You are a DOMESTIC TERRORIST!

SUPER OCTOBER SURPRISE! HAPPY HALLOWEEN Everyone! LOL

Vote Obama Nov. 4th WHOO HOOO!

[carmie1818]

I can't believe a Republican would have such a double standard.

*laugh now.

[dralavant]

AH HA!! CAUGHT YOU RED HANDED GOVERNOR! Hehehe... YOU CAN NOT HIDE SARAH!! THE TRUTH, SHALL BE REVEALED!

[mdbeaster1]

The calls of "socialism!" recently from the right and led by folks like Rush Limbaugh are nothing more than a modern day Red Scare. The fact that Obama wants to remove the Bush tax cuts for the top few percent of the country and restore faith in our economy for the middle class makes him a socialist? Learn the difference between socialism and liberalism, Joe McCarthy.

[Libertytreeradio]

LOL,Rush Numbnuts is a socialist and brags about it you goof.McBama and Oclain are both

CFR stooges and they are BOTH socialists.Just like BUSH for NAFTA/GATT and Clinton running against it,LOL.The third major piece of Legislation signed by Clinton was NAFTA/GATT

with Gore the tie breaking vote in the senate

They all get their marching orders/platform

from the CFR etc.McBama is a SOVIET SOCIALIST

and we all know it.The patriot movement has been right on about all.MarkGregory,,Koernke

GDW

[myeyepie]

Secession is sounding better and better all the time. If the politicians we elect are going to continue to ignore the constitution we dont have a country anymore. The constitution is the "deal" we made to become united states rather than seperate countries. The sprint towards socialism should mark the end of the constitution and those who wish should be able to seperate.

[iamgerald2000]

the minute your president bailed out the banks , your country became a socialist country.

[gunjitsingh]

No , our government is actually actig like one HUGE hedge fund. Lets hope they turn a profit

[iamgerald2000]

hedge fund is supposed to be a private fund not a government one.its like a hedge fund that was not signed up for.

[bl0ven]

actually, you sound like one HUGE idiot. if you havent learned by now not to listen to the spewed crap that comes out of bush and cronies mouths about actually being able to turn a profit or at least recoup some loss from this, i fear time will prove you (and the rest of the fools who bought into this) sorely mistaken.

wake up, we are being socialized, one sector at a time.