someone already said it as a comment, but its good to hear it again. first, Jesus didn't pay for everyone's sins, just the sins of his people. his people are those who love him and who have repented of their way and trust in him for forgiveness of sins (breaking God's laws). the rest pay for their own sin, and that's a HUGE and eternal debt. You should be very afraid, bro. No seriously, this should terrify you!
Jesus died to pay the penalty of sin for ALL who meet certain CONDITIONS, which is going to Christ, REPENTING of sin & being born of God's SPIRIT in baptism, which will regenerate a sinner to the nature of Christ!
A wicked abominable child of SATAN like you will not go to Christ on your own & repent, because you're EVIL to the core & you love your sins & hate God's law! This is why salvation is by ELECTION! The Father DRAWS some to Christ & others He leaves in their iniquity to receive JUSTICE!
Your question is fair, but Jesus´sacrifice" and the benefits therefrom are to be experienced individually. The rules are given and the effects of their application are awaiting, as in any walk of life. Jesus´ disciples (in Acts) proved this in many ways. Many people, including me, have also proved this, thou in small measure.
I feel your arguments are addressed more to the fundamentalists. But they are just as useful for everybody. Thanks.
Man! Young and inexperienced, get to learn about religion (any), then comment, Your questions are like those of a 8YO boy, so I will not waste my time with you even though God will be pissed off at me by not commenting the right way (as Christian Im supposed to guide u). but Your'e boring. and what's the deal with your ring? you married? 'cause if u are. what it means its very close (if not the same) to be a Christian, with your two brain cells I don't think you will get this so pls don't reply.
That actually sounds like a some what valid (atleast) question, about events that we are told to be true by religion.
yet you insult him for asking something that doesn't make sense to him, and you go on to berate and talk down to him. Isn't that behavior anti-christian in nature?
Though I wonder why you attack him like it was an insult to you directly.
well what exactly is sin? or better yet, what exactly is evil??
its anything that goes against God, and anything that goes against an higher authority (which is God) shall be punished.
and the reason why you are not seeing any results is because mostly everyone is going against God therefore you see no results therefore sin is spreading and therefore sin is still sticking around going against God
you expect to God to eliminate evil so we can worship Him without our own choice? Where is the point of that if we`re going to be programed to serve and accept God. Its our choice wether or not were going to serve Him.
How would God eliminating evil *make* me worship him? I've heard this time and time again...that if God reveals himself then we all become sheep, powerless to resist him. That's bullshit; even if he showed up I wouldn't worship him (assuming he is the character in the Christian bible). Just knowing he's real doesn't make me or anyone else (including Lucifer, Adam, and Eve) automatically "worship" him.
yeah okay, you`re only saying that because you know your safe behind your computer screen having fun on youtube. But if the Creator of God REALLY appeared to you, I doubt you would be so "couragous" and say no to God. The whole point of your comment is a lie to disprove the point I was trying to make. We all know that the whole world would submit to God out of FEAR rather out of Love if God really appeared to us.
So might makes right? If someone held a gun to your head and said "love me", would you? *Could* you?
If he is real, then let him do what he wants if he thinks "might makes right". Threatening me, beating me, etc. won't make me love him, and I'd bet same goes for you (and most other sane individuals). The immorality of holding power over somebody in order to garner their love -- much less their "worship" -- is glaring to anyone who takes the time to think about it.
my point I was adressing is simply trying to make you understand that Jesus death on the cross dosen`t automatically wipe of sin. Its more deeper then that. If Jesus did automatically eliminate all the evil, there would be no choice of choosing the alternetive. We would love God because we couldn`t disobey Him or choose to follow sin. There is no point in that. Thats what I was trying to say brother.
@smalltownatheist, What you seem to fail to understand is that you're in God's sight a wicked filthy CRIMINAL, who has rebelled against God's HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW, & done what you KNEW to be evil to gratify your evil, vile, perverted LUSTS for selfish gain & pleasure, which has brought God's righteous WRATH upon you for your sins which is JUST! Christ is the way for you to receive undeserved MERCY, if you go to Him in sorrow & REPENT! If you continue in proud rebellion you will get JUSTICE (HELL)!
@macolyis Indeed, if being a Christian as you portray will allow me to talk to others whom I do not know in the same gentle, loving, honorable tone as you, I wouldn't hesitate.
@smalltownatheist Love is rebuking those who are in proud rebellion against God & are openly mocking Him to His face, so that they might turn away from their wickedness & go to Christ for forgiveness & be saved!
There is a time to be gentle & a time to be harsh! I warn you out of Love & I am warning you in an honorable way, by patiently explaining to you WHY there is evil in the world & WHY life is hard & difficult!
It is because most of the world has NOT accepted Christ, & man follows Satan!
@macolyis No you do not. You're telling me that I deserve to be tortured forever. You're a sick, twisted person -- anyone who would even imagine the endless torture of others is morally bankrupt and repugnant.
It's like this. Say someone decides to kill someone else. And they are forgiven. The other person is still dead, right? Right. Therefore, although Jesus died to pay the price for our sin, we still see the effects/consequences of it. Hope that helps :)
Jesus didn't come to eliminate evil from the world... Jesus came and made it possible for us to be forgiven of it.. he came to show that he loves us and set an example for us to love each other..we're not doing a good job either.. Christ will come again... then evil will be eliminated
Okay, this is SO a typical bible answer, but there is no hold up. God operates on a different schedule than we do. He will send Jesus back when it's time. There are certain events that will come first --I can find the biblical references if you want. That is, if you believe the bible is a credible source.
Pretty sure that 'god' (as I am positive something is there) is a bastard, for either allowing such crap to happen to good people that could basically ruin their lives. Tell me what 'loving' (such a jokingly used word) god would turn around and have or allow the life lines of his followers to be destroyed, right after they do the responsible/reasonable thing. (like fixing the car used by the household, etc) and cause the bank accounts to be drained by a sidewipe.
You have the wrong idea. Sin is not what keeps us seperated. You have to understand we have the authority over satan therefore we can control him The problem is most do not believe this. The sacrifice of Jesus isnt to forgive sins, even though that is what his blood does, the purpose of the sacrifice was to give us authority over satan and the curse of the law In effect so that we could become like Jesus As for original sin, the final judgement deals with that Not enough room to explain sorry :(
The idea that jesus made some big sacrifice is ludicrous.
If jesus *actually* died and went to oblivion - I could respect that as a decent payment. But what.. he not only comes back to life.. but goes on to live for eternity and have a picnic in some place called 'heaven'??
That's not a payment - it's a mockery of the finality of death.
The christian myth might have actually made some sort of poetic sense if jesus was suffering in hell. As it stands - it doesn't even make a good story.
These are natural occurrences that shape our world. Destructive yes, but also life giving, just as child birth is both painful and wondrous.
The Adjective EVIL, is used to describe a wrongful act.
examples are; rape, genocide and bigotry.
Jesus's death is symbolic of our rebirth in a life that has no room for past transgressions. To paraphrase the man him self, "Forgive, and you will be forgiven"...
I'm not saying they're "evil"...I'm saying that they've been called evil by many who believe(d) that they are the result of sin. Those same people also claim that the "perfect" world that God created became corrupted by Original Sin, and many "evil" things resulted -- including predation.
Does the blood of Jesus absolve EVERYONE's sins, or just the sins of those who are saved? I wouldn't have thought the sins of those who are damned need to be paid for - it's a waste of blood if they are going to hell anyway. That would explain why original sin still exists. The save are already washed clean.
I think the key here is not to try and rationalise. The whole concept is too nutty for that to work. Let's face it - Christian logical thinking looks like Uri Geller's cutlery draw.
Jesus' death was supposed to expiate humankind's inherited guilt, a totally irrational and unjust concept. Hey! I didn't eat the apple and neither did anyone else after Adam. The whole idea that Jesus washed away Original Sin is a priestly construct aimed at controlling the masses through guilt.
I'm sure there's a stock apologetic answer that Christians are satisfied with. Once you commit to beleiving Jesus lived, died, was resurrected and is God, the rest is interesting but irrelevant. They've had 2000 years to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
someone already said it as a comment, but its good to hear it again. first, Jesus didn't pay for everyone's sins, just the sins of his people. his people are those who love him and who have repented of their way and trust in him for forgiveness of sins (breaking God's laws). the rest pay for their own sin, and that's a HUGE and eternal debt. You should be very afraid, bro. No seriously, this should terrify you!
TerrenceTheodore 7 months ago
Jesus died to pay the penalty of sin for ALL who meet certain CONDITIONS, which is going to Christ, REPENTING of sin & being born of God's SPIRIT in baptism, which will regenerate a sinner to the nature of Christ!
A wicked abominable child of SATAN like you will not go to Christ on your own & repent, because you're EVIL to the core & you love your sins & hate God's law! This is why salvation is by ELECTION! The Father DRAWS some to Christ & others He leaves in their iniquity to receive JUSTICE!
macolyis 1 year ago
Jesus did not pay for all sins. Read John 17
lovejesusallways 1 year ago
Your question is fair, but Jesus´sacrifice" and the benefits therefrom are to be experienced individually. The rules are given and the effects of their application are awaiting, as in any walk of life. Jesus´ disciples (in Acts) proved this in many ways. Many people, including me, have also proved this, thou in small measure.
I feel your arguments are addressed more to the fundamentalists. But they are just as useful for everybody. Thanks.
ruffomaldito 2 years ago
Man! Young and inexperienced, get to learn about religion (any), then comment, Your questions are like those of a 8YO boy, so I will not waste my time with you even though God will be pissed off at me by not commenting the right way (as Christian Im supposed to guide u). but Your'e boring. and what's the deal with your ring? you married? 'cause if u are. what it means its very close (if not the same) to be a Christian, with your two brain cells I don't think you will get this so pls don't reply.
pitudo69 2 years ago
@pitudo69 -- Wait? What?
That actually sounds like a some what valid (atleast) question, about events that we are told to be true by religion.
yet you insult him for asking something that doesn't make sense to him, and you go on to berate and talk down to him. Isn't that behavior anti-christian in nature?
Though I wonder why you attack him like it was an insult to you directly.
KernsNoel 2 years ago
well what exactly is sin? or better yet, what exactly is evil??
its anything that goes against God, and anything that goes against an higher authority (which is God) shall be punished.
and the reason why you are not seeing any results is because mostly everyone is going against God therefore you see no results therefore sin is spreading and therefore sin is still sticking around going against God
bubbleboy32193 2 years ago
you expect to God to eliminate evil so we can worship Him without our own choice? Where is the point of that if we`re going to be programed to serve and accept God. Its our choice wether or not were going to serve Him.
kiddo500 2 years ago
How would God eliminating evil *make* me worship him? I've heard this time and time again...that if God reveals himself then we all become sheep, powerless to resist him. That's bullshit; even if he showed up I wouldn't worship him (assuming he is the character in the Christian bible). Just knowing he's real doesn't make me or anyone else (including Lucifer, Adam, and Eve) automatically "worship" him.
smalltownatheist 2 years ago
yeah okay, you`re only saying that because you know your safe behind your computer screen having fun on youtube. But if the Creator of God REALLY appeared to you, I doubt you would be so "couragous" and say no to God. The whole point of your comment is a lie to disprove the point I was trying to make. We all know that the whole world would submit to God out of FEAR rather out of Love if God really appeared to us.
kiddo500 2 years ago
So might makes right? If someone held a gun to your head and said "love me", would you? *Could* you?
If he is real, then let him do what he wants if he thinks "might makes right". Threatening me, beating me, etc. won't make me love him, and I'd bet same goes for you (and most other sane individuals). The immorality of holding power over somebody in order to garner their love -- much less their "worship" -- is glaring to anyone who takes the time to think about it.
smalltownatheist 2 years ago
my point I was adressing is simply trying to make you understand that Jesus death on the cross dosen`t automatically wipe of sin. Its more deeper then that. If Jesus did automatically eliminate all the evil, there would be no choice of choosing the alternetive. We would love God because we couldn`t disobey Him or choose to follow sin. There is no point in that. Thats what I was trying to say brother.
kiddo500 2 years ago
@smalltownatheist, What you seem to fail to understand is that you're in God's sight a wicked filthy CRIMINAL, who has rebelled against God's HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW, & done what you KNEW to be evil to gratify your evil, vile, perverted LUSTS for selfish gain & pleasure, which has brought God's righteous WRATH upon you for your sins which is JUST! Christ is the way for you to receive undeserved MERCY, if you go to Him in sorrow & REPENT! If you continue in proud rebellion you will get JUSTICE (HELL)!
macolyis 1 year ago
@macolyis Indeed, if being a Christian as you portray will allow me to talk to others whom I do not know in the same gentle, loving, honorable tone as you, I wouldn't hesitate.
smalltownatheist 1 year ago
@smalltownatheist Love is rebuking those who are in proud rebellion against God & are openly mocking Him to His face, so that they might turn away from their wickedness & go to Christ for forgiveness & be saved!
There is a time to be gentle & a time to be harsh! I warn you out of Love & I am warning you in an honorable way, by patiently explaining to you WHY there is evil in the world & WHY life is hard & difficult!
It is because most of the world has NOT accepted Christ, & man follows Satan!
macolyis 1 year ago
@macolyis No you do not. You're telling me that I deserve to be tortured forever. You're a sick, twisted person -- anyone who would even imagine the endless torture of others is morally bankrupt and repugnant.
smalltownatheist 1 year ago
You misunderstand what sin is, a seperation from God.
Jesus made the way so by faith in Him we can bridge the gap of sin, and be with God forever.
The gift of salvation is offered to ALL by some reject it, so Jesus is just respecting your wishes.
So if you reject the only means by which you can be saved, who do you have to actually blame if you die in your sins?
Answer: no one, but you.
Choose well.
TWF
TheWheatForce 2 years ago
The only thing more disturbing than a man talking to an invisible person,
is the man who accepts a non-response as forgiveness!
MyFartsRock 2 years ago
Well put.
smalltownatheist 2 years ago
Sorry to see this happen to you. I know the pain you feel.
EricZombie 2 years ago
It's like this. Say someone decides to kill someone else. And they are forgiven. The other person is still dead, right? Right. Therefore, although Jesus died to pay the price for our sin, we still see the effects/consequences of it. Hope that helps :)
LittleMissMoni 3 years ago
Jesus didn't come to eliminate evil from the world... Jesus came and made it possible for us to be forgiven of it.. he came to show that he loves us and set an example for us to love each other..we're not doing a good job either.. Christ will come again... then evil will be eliminated
woobstoob 3 years ago
Oh, okay...so what's the hold-up?
smalltownatheist 3 years ago
Okay, this is SO a typical bible answer, but there is no hold up. God operates on a different schedule than we do. He will send Jesus back when it's time. There are certain events that will come first --I can find the biblical references if you want. That is, if you believe the bible is a credible source.
LittleMissMoni 3 years ago
@littlemissmoni -- Let me get this strait...
God will send jesus in his own time, to fix this planet and such.
Meanwhile, Near countless will die, live lives of sin, and go to hell all because he decides to wait?
What kind of god is that?
KernsNoel 2 years ago
@KernsNoel
God will not send jesus god will present himself.
God doesn't have to give us anything. He truly doesn't. but he does anyway. i will pray for you.
camoaut 1 year ago
@camoaut
Pretty sure that 'god' (as I am positive something is there) is a bastard, for either allowing such crap to happen to good people that could basically ruin their lives. Tell me what 'loving' (such a jokingly used word) god would turn around and have or allow the life lines of his followers to be destroyed, right after they do the responsible/reasonable thing. (like fixing the car used by the household, etc) and cause the bank accounts to be drained by a sidewipe.
Shadowwolfseven 1 year ago
you do see the result of it.. you have to allow it...
woobstoob 3 years ago
You have the wrong idea. Sin is not what keeps us seperated. You have to understand we have the authority over satan therefore we can control him The problem is most do not believe this. The sacrifice of Jesus isnt to forgive sins, even though that is what his blood does, the purpose of the sacrifice was to give us authority over satan and the curse of the law In effect so that we could become like Jesus As for original sin, the final judgement deals with that Not enough room to explain sorry :(
GiantsOLB53 3 years ago
Bravo! This is one of the biggest contradictions in religion!
julzabro 3 years ago 2
The idea that jesus made some big sacrifice is ludicrous.
If jesus *actually* died and went to oblivion - I could respect that as a decent payment. But what.. he not only comes back to life.. but goes on to live for eternity and have a picnic in some place called 'heaven'??
That's not a payment - it's a mockery of the finality of death.
The christian myth might have actually made some sort of poetic sense if jesus was suffering in hell. As it stands - it doesn't even make a good story.
neuronstorm 3 years ago 2
How are floods, volcano and earthquakes evil?
These are natural occurrences that shape our world. Destructive yes, but also life giving, just as child birth is both painful and wondrous.
The Adjective EVIL, is used to describe a wrongful act.
examples are; rape, genocide and bigotry.
Jesus's death is symbolic of our rebirth in a life that has no room for past transgressions. To paraphrase the man him self, "Forgive, and you will be forgiven"...
falleneldor 3 years ago
I'm not saying they're "evil"...I'm saying that they've been called evil by many who believe(d) that they are the result of sin. Those same people also claim that the "perfect" world that God created became corrupted by Original Sin, and many "evil" things resulted -- including predation.
smalltownatheist 3 years ago
Holy hemoglobin --excellent!! Sin is nonsense--what is it? Sin is just a religious definition for decisions they disagree with.
NEWSTOGOD 3 years ago
Does the blood of Jesus absolve EVERYONE's sins, or just the sins of those who are saved? I wouldn't have thought the sins of those who are damned need to be paid for - it's a waste of blood if they are going to hell anyway. That would explain why original sin still exists. The save are already washed clean.
I think the key here is not to try and rationalise. The whole concept is too nutty for that to work. Let's face it - Christian logical thinking looks like Uri Geller's cutlery draw.
thatgaybloke 3 years ago
Of course it is. I make videos like this to illustrate the absurdity of the logic.
smalltownatheist 3 years ago
what logic????...;)
julzabro 3 years ago
Jesus' death was supposed to expiate humankind's inherited guilt, a totally irrational and unjust concept. Hey! I didn't eat the apple and neither did anyone else after Adam. The whole idea that Jesus washed away Original Sin is a priestly construct aimed at controlling the masses through guilt.
Gwaithmir 3 years ago
Once a moose can build a cross, they'll get their messiah.
ClosetAtheist 3 years ago
I'm sure there's a stock apologetic answer that Christians are satisfied with. Once you commit to beleiving Jesus lived, died, was resurrected and is God, the rest is interesting but irrelevant. They've had 2000 years to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
owheydusoapsk 3 years ago