Just keep trying to defend your turf. as a PCP the problem is we are all at the mercy of the insurance company or the MCO. Take your MD and go into specialty care. You don't want to sully your hands with the needs of the common man/woman anyway. You can't make enough money and its too stressful. Doctor is an adjective not a noun. You are all now Physician practitioners Or physician Doctors. Lets quit fighting each other and fight the real enemies. the insurance compaines
@DLuckyFNP Thank you for proving my point! You just said you know more than a doctor! "cleaning up messes" In FACT you just referenced yourself as a "doctor" The arrogance runs deep within you and all NP's. Sad, just sad.
wow--a lot of "action" on this topic. The reason MDs are not going into primary care any more is because primary care is broken. It has burned out MDs and it will burn out NPs next. Studies prove that after about 3 years all MD, DO, NP, PA are about the same with regards to knowledge, etc. The diff with the NP is that they usually get a "lighter" assignment or because they are truly altruistic at heart spend more time with pts.--the art of the whole thing is making pts. feel heard
Oh please. This is such hogwash. Nurses do not have the market cornered on "whole patient" or "altruism". Give me a break and stop being so disingenuous. It's insulting to every other profession and patently false.
wow--a lot of "action" on this topic. The reason MDs are not going into primary care any more is because primary care is broken. It has burned out MDs and it will burn out NPs next. Studies prove that after about 3 years all MD, DO, NP, PA are about the same with regards to knowledge, etc. The diff with the NP is that they usually get a "lighter" assignment or because they are truly altruistic at heart spend more time with pts.--the art of the whole thing is making pts. feel that you "hear" them
ronically, MDs brought the change on themselves via neglecting public policy and allowing the acute shortage to reach such levels, it made the AMA's fight unpalatable for politicians to vote in the special interest's favor against the need for public health.
The MD/DO review is a money making scheme for the doctors and a major disincentive to providing independent practice as a NP. New regulations will also free up MDs and DOs to use those allotted hours each month currently used to "check" the NPs' records to providing care to patients. For years MDs kept DOs out of the physician role, but finally relented as physician shortages became acute.
@jackooboy1 Thanks much for your thoughts. For an article I'm writing, I'm trying to locate literature regarding the history of organized MD's acting as barrier agents to DO/OD/DPM advancement, as they are presently with the fight against pt. access vis-à-vis NP barrier formation. Any suggestions?
@DLuckyFNP You can try and make the 'oppression' of NPs/DOs by MDs an apples-to-apples comparison, but you're missing the point: today, the DO curriculum is everything the MD curriculum is - they can even take the USMLE. They do 3+ year residencies (not 40 hr/wk residencies, lets aim at 80 hrs/wk) minimum. They're not independent till they're done. The point is, when nurse practitioner education is up to this level, the medical community won't cry foul about independence. It's about safety.
@jackooboy1 It's not a money making scheme to have oversight over lesser qualified individual that can have an impact on your license or malpractice is working.
@CitizenofDystopia So proper oversight is reviewing 10% of charts once a month after the fact??? We either know how to ride the bike or we don't... 99% of the time the NP is paying for a rubber stamp and everyone knows it... It's the "you're not a MD/DO tax" and American healthcare is suffering because of it.
The government will make concessions to NPs as DNPs become the standard NP credential, the baby boomers retire enmass, and the GP physician shortage grows more acute.
@jackooboy1 If NP's want to practice independently and as physicians, why didn't they go to medical school instead? If your education is at par, you should know about statistics. Checking 10% of charts is done because that's a very good sampling size. Checking it after the fact is the only cost effective yet safe way there is that still allows NP's to practice. So no, you don't know how to ride the bike. That's why you're not doctors. If you want to ride it, again, go to med school.
@jackooboy1 That's correct. An NP doesn't have the training to truly know. When the case is black or white, then they know, but what if the case presents itself in a way that they miss a symptom or two and misdiagnose it as something else? This is happens because an NP doesn't have the enough training. Why do you think doctors go to medical school and then become primary care physicians if they could save years in education and school loans by doing an NP?
@jackooboy1 So all you have left in you are insults? Do you believe a nurse practitioner has equal training to a physician? Have you seen how different the curriculum is? If you don't have equal training, how do you know you may have not overlooked a symptom and misdiagnosed? And why do you refuse answer why you don't go to medical school if your desire is to act like a doctor? I find that confusing. All the doctors did it.
@CitizenofDystopia I never said a nurse is a physician. They do however share about 85% - 90% of their scope of practice in family practice with doctos.... Anyhow, yes, you are ignorant and a moron if you think someone doesn't know a basic think such as what their scope of practice is. That's the ultimate insult... and if you ever get into medical school, you should lose your God complex because it won't go over well in the workplace. Why should I go to medical school?
@jackooboy1 You can take reality as an insult or not. Fact is that nurse practitioners keep pushing for a bigger and bigger role in health care and their education is not to par. An online doctorate that consists mostly of nurse management is not the same as clinical experience. Just recently I read about DNP's trying to get into dermatology. You should go to medical school because it appears you want to have all the privileges of a physician. Instead you use politics to gain it.
@CitizenofDystopia Yawn. You know very little about the structuring of healthcare... Learn, different people play different roles. All the world's a stage... Anyhow, a doctorate in nursing is more than enough to diagnose 90% of what comes through the door. I'm guessing you don't get it-- THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DOCTORS!!!!! Something is going to give. Should D.O.s not be physicians...? after all, they originally were resisted to be equals to MDs... Read more...
@jackooboy1 Don't compare yourself to Osteopathic Physicians. Your training is miles away. If you followed the history of Osteopathy in the United States, you'd realize that it hasn't been until 30 years ago that DO's got with the time. Even now, many still reject some of their training like cranial osteopathy. And yes, there aren't enough doctors, but the solution isn't health care provided by lesser qualified individuals. If anything, I'd be more open to giving PA's more autonomy than NPs.
@CitizenofDystopia OK... Other than your emotional and irrational hatred of NPs which statistically provide care equal to or better than physicians (bedside manner, emotional social intelligence, and other soft skills) we have 32 million people being added to the health care roles in 2014, and tens of millions more baby boomers needing increased health services... How do they get care if "Citizen of Dystopia" is president? I have nothing against D.O.s, just remarking on history...
@jackooboy1 Right, framing it as me being emotional and irrational is the way to win an argument. Again, the solution is not giving autonomy to lesser trained individuals. I'm okay with the role of NP's and PA (thought I prefer PA's because they receive 2,400 hours of clinical training and NP's get 700 and an online degree). Look at my other posts, I've suggested opening more residency slots. If your concern is bedside manner, DO's created the holistic approach and MD's could easily learn it.
@CitizenofDystopia You think the experience that nurses have within the medical field doesn't more than account for the extra time that PAs are required to have in clinical (these people for the most part have never worked in a health care setting nor have they EVER been required to do clinical before their PA degree). Nurses learn a lot of the basics and have been practicing them for years(usually) before they go back to NPschool. PAs, 99% of them have never done and I.V. or any other basics.
@jackooboy1 Being able to put in IV's and shadow doctors cannot replace clinical training and does not help when it comes to diagnostic and dispensing of drugs. I know a nurse turned to doctor. He said his 15 years in the field as a nurse didn't give him a leg up for the USMLE or many other aspects of becoming and being a physician. The whole point of nurses even existing is that they are professionals and experts in their own right. This does not make them expert in another field.
@CitizenofDystopia So you're misrepresenting my argument on purpose... that's fine. Obviously we can agree to disagree. You talk about a nurse, not a nurse practitioner-- yeah, there's a difference. And you give no credit to that "nurse turned doctor" for his 15 years of experience before he decided to get his physician crudentials... Please... I find it highly unlikely anyone would say they didn't learn anything in 15 years of being a nurse that helps them be a better doctor.
@jackooboy1 I don't see how I misrepresent anything. I speak of a nurse turned doctor because your comparison is that a nurse turned nurse practitioner is "better" than a physician or physician assistant for the simple fact that they had been nurses and have put IVs before. You can find it unlikely all you want, but until you become a physician, your comment on that is completely irrelevant.
@CitizenofDystopia Again, misrepresenting my argument. In some areas Nurse Practitioners are better than doctors. I never said NPs can do 100% of what doctors do which you're assuming I said (reading deficency or emotion?)... I said on average within their scope of practice NPs and PAs can do 80-90% depending on the state. Anyhow, you should learn how to read and take your emotions out of the argument (take some liberal arts classes) and learn this twisting would never work on debate team.
@CitizenofDystopia Anyhow, again 99% of PAs probably have never worked in a healthcare setting. It's prudent they have much more clinical time vs. most nurse practitioners which have been working in healthcare learning the basics and expanding their real world knowledge for a few years on average before they jump to the next level. Anyhow, I've noticed all of your arguments depend on trashing others... almost none of them actually revolve around solving the healthcare crisis...
@jackooboy1 I think you're completely wrong. The PAs get more clinical hours based on the new job description that they will have. They will be doing exams, histories, medicating patients, etc. The nurse practitioners are receiving a 1/3 of the training and obtaining a new role in health care. It doesn't matter (for example) how many stroke patients you've looked after. This doesn't make you versed on the dangers of different medications. I already addressed solutions. You just don't like them.
@CitizenofDystopia Your so called solutions aren't based in reality. Also, you can think whatever you want, but your version of reality verges on emotionally charged infantilism with no studies to back up your hatred of nurse practitioners. Yes, nurses are your enemy, they're evil... they'll take your job because they provide the same quality or better care and cost less...
@jackooboy1 I don't know why you think that my solutions are out of reality. Opening more slots for residencies is something out of this world? How do you think there will be more health care professionals if NP's area already working? What you want is zero overhead, which is unsafe for patients. Hopefully you at least have the decency to call for NP's to pay their own liability insurance. Soon we'll see how much "cheaper" it is for you and america to pay insurance instead of being chart checked
@CitizenofDystopia Ironically, that type of thinking is ridiculous since there's absolutely no physicians I know who are unemployed... I wonder why that is? BECAUSE THERE'S A SHORTAGE!!! Interestingly enough, I see the problem with people who have a very limited liberal arts education... they don't see the big picture and everything comes down to blaring insecurities. Don't worry, even with NPs and PAs taking on more in the medical field, you'll still have a job as a doctor.
@jackooboy1 I have zero doubt I'll graduate from medical school and be a physician that will make his patient's life better, but I understand your misguided anger as someone that could never make it into medical school. I find it ironic that you try to attack me based on education when your by default is less than it.
@jackooboy1 I think you're the one mistaken. I haven't said doctors will not have jobs, and I don't have a hatred of NP's. I haven't called for a lesser role for NP's. In fact, I'd be all for training them in such a way that they could practice in more fields than FP (like PA's do). What I don't agree is an autonomous, taking over primary care, type of role. As for my education, I have a double major in social sciences and do have an acceptance into medical school.
@CitizenofDystopia: Do let us know if you feel the same way after you complete your training, get out of school, get a job and get about 12 years of post graduate patient care experience--all of which was the average experience of my NP cohort. Ironically, by that time all NP's will have been doctors by more than 15 years or so.
@DLuckyFNP So you're saying that NP's, who have acquired a new skill in diagnosing and treating patients, should have their clinical training be less because they were doing a job that was not diagnosing and treating patients but in the same field? Would you be in favor of waiving all clinical training for CNA's that have 10 years experience and go onto get their RN?
@DLuckyFNP To be fair, they'll have been Noctors for that long, splitting, driving wedges in the healthcare team approach, and pushing the idea that 1/10th-1/5th clinical hours are equivalent with no understanding of the medicine they are practicing.
Future? Just hire PA's and avoid hiring NP's. The anesthesiologist have started learning this after moving too slow to react to the CRNA militancy.
@jackooboy1 And yes, there is an increase in geriatrics, but that problem shouldn't be addressed by giving lesser qualified individuals right to practice. The problem could be alleviated more if the government stopped cutting down on medicare reimbursement and medical schools would be able to increase their class sizes. Currently they don't because there are not enough clerkships and residencies.
I think the logic follows... NP's are going to DNP's in 2015, and are more than capable of providing primary care as it is with a master's degree. You'll be able to supply more nurse practitioners to the field through establishing independence of the profession because DNP's don't want to be playing 2nd fiddle to a DO or MD when it really isn't necessary and they have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in their own practice.
So your argument goes... people need health care services, NP's are in the position to provide those services, but they require independence from physicians to do so?
Not seeing how that follows logically -> go find a collaborating physician (it's not difficult).
Thanks for watching. The issue is not where finding a collaborating physician exists on the difficulty continuum--the issue is in the appropriateness of mandating a physician (or anyone outside of nursing for that matter) supervisor as a requirement for NP's to function and how this serves as a barrier to access to health care. In California--no physician supervisor--no NP practice. It's that simple. This is the essence of the barrier.
Just keep trying to defend your turf. as a PCP the problem is we are all at the mercy of the insurance company or the MCO. Take your MD and go into specialty care. You don't want to sully your hands with the needs of the common man/woman anyway. You can't make enough money and its too stressful. Doctor is an adjective not a noun. You are all now Physician practitioners Or physician Doctors. Lets quit fighting each other and fight the real enemies. the insurance compaines
teribunker 3 months ago
@DLuckyFNP Thank you for proving my point! You just said you know more than a doctor! "cleaning up messes" In FACT you just referenced yourself as a "doctor" The arrogance runs deep within you and all NP's. Sad, just sad.
teamjohntiger 8 months ago
Hey chiropractors want to be primary care providers too! When are you going to lobby for their equivalency?
jasiodjasiodjasoidia 8 months ago
wow--a lot of "action" on this topic. The reason MDs are not going into primary care any more is because primary care is broken. It has burned out MDs and it will burn out NPs next. Studies prove that after about 3 years all MD, DO, NP, PA are about the same with regards to knowledge, etc. The diff with the NP is that they usually get a "lighter" assignment or because they are truly altruistic at heart spend more time with pts.--the art of the whole thing is making pts. feel heard
teribunker 10 months ago
@teribunker
Oh please. This is such hogwash. Nurses do not have the market cornered on "whole patient" or "altruism". Give me a break and stop being so disingenuous. It's insulting to every other profession and patently false.
jasiodjasiodjasoidia 8 months ago
wow--a lot of "action" on this topic. The reason MDs are not going into primary care any more is because primary care is broken. It has burned out MDs and it will burn out NPs next. Studies prove that after about 3 years all MD, DO, NP, PA are about the same with regards to knowledge, etc. The diff with the NP is that they usually get a "lighter" assignment or because they are truly altruistic at heart spend more time with pts.--the art of the whole thing is making pts. feel that you "hear" them
teribunker 10 months ago
Comment removed
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
ronically, MDs brought the change on themselves via neglecting public policy and allowing the acute shortage to reach such levels, it made the AMA's fight unpalatable for politicians to vote in the special interest's favor against the need for public health.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
The MD/DO review is a money making scheme for the doctors and a major disincentive to providing independent practice as a NP. New regulations will also free up MDs and DOs to use those allotted hours each month currently used to "check" the NPs' records to providing care to patients. For years MDs kept DOs out of the physician role, but finally relented as physician shortages became acute.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 Thanks much for your thoughts. For an article I'm writing, I'm trying to locate literature regarding the history of organized MD's acting as barrier agents to DO/OD/DPM advancement, as they are presently with the fight against pt. access vis-à-vis NP barrier formation. Any suggestions?
DLuckyFNP 1 year ago
@DLuckyFNP You can try and make the 'oppression' of NPs/DOs by MDs an apples-to-apples comparison, but you're missing the point: today, the DO curriculum is everything the MD curriculum is - they can even take the USMLE. They do 3+ year residencies (not 40 hr/wk residencies, lets aim at 80 hrs/wk) minimum. They're not independent till they're done. The point is, when nurse practitioner education is up to this level, the medical community won't cry foul about independence. It's about safety.
zfellows 1 year ago
@zfellows
Hey now Columbia (the premiere DNP school!!) had their grads take the watered-down USMLE too and only 50% of them failed it!
That's total equivalency. Plus, not all DNP programs let you get a bulk of your degree online...only some of them!
And who cares that DNP training is highly variable from school to school?? Their equivalent Doctors.
jasiodjasiodjasoidia 8 months ago
@jackooboy1 It's not a money making scheme to have oversight over lesser qualified individual that can have an impact on your license or malpractice is working.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia So proper oversight is reviewing 10% of charts once a month after the fact??? We either know how to ride the bike or we don't... 99% of the time the NP is paying for a rubber stamp and everyone knows it... It's the "you're not a MD/DO tax" and American healthcare is suffering because of it.
The government will make concessions to NPs as DNPs become the standard NP credential, the baby boomers retire enmass, and the GP physician shortage grows more acute.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 If NP's want to practice independently and as physicians, why didn't they go to medical school instead? If your education is at par, you should know about statistics. Checking 10% of charts is done because that's a very good sampling size. Checking it after the fact is the only cost effective yet safe way there is that still allows NP's to practice. So no, you don't know how to ride the bike. That's why you're not doctors. If you want to ride it, again, go to med school.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia So an NP doesn't know what their scope of practice is and doesn't know when a doctor is needed?
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 That's correct. An NP doesn't have the training to truly know. When the case is black or white, then they know, but what if the case presents itself in a way that they miss a symptom or two and misdiagnose it as something else? This is happens because an NP doesn't have the enough training. Why do you think doctors go to medical school and then become primary care physicians if they could save years in education and school loans by doing an NP?
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia I'm sorry, but you're an ignorant moron.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 So all you have left in you are insults? Do you believe a nurse practitioner has equal training to a physician? Have you seen how different the curriculum is? If you don't have equal training, how do you know you may have not overlooked a symptom and misdiagnosed? And why do you refuse answer why you don't go to medical school if your desire is to act like a doctor? I find that confusing. All the doctors did it.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia I never said a nurse is a physician. They do however share about 85% - 90% of their scope of practice in family practice with doctos.... Anyhow, yes, you are ignorant and a moron if you think someone doesn't know a basic think such as what their scope of practice is. That's the ultimate insult... and if you ever get into medical school, you should lose your God complex because it won't go over well in the workplace. Why should I go to medical school?
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 You can take reality as an insult or not. Fact is that nurse practitioners keep pushing for a bigger and bigger role in health care and their education is not to par. An online doctorate that consists mostly of nurse management is not the same as clinical experience. Just recently I read about DNP's trying to get into dermatology. You should go to medical school because it appears you want to have all the privileges of a physician. Instead you use politics to gain it.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia Yawn. You know very little about the structuring of healthcare... Learn, different people play different roles. All the world's a stage... Anyhow, a doctorate in nursing is more than enough to diagnose 90% of what comes through the door. I'm guessing you don't get it-- THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DOCTORS!!!!! Something is going to give. Should D.O.s not be physicians...? after all, they originally were resisted to be equals to MDs... Read more...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 Don't compare yourself to Osteopathic Physicians. Your training is miles away. If you followed the history of Osteopathy in the United States, you'd realize that it hasn't been until 30 years ago that DO's got with the time. Even now, many still reject some of their training like cranial osteopathy. And yes, there aren't enough doctors, but the solution isn't health care provided by lesser qualified individuals. If anything, I'd be more open to giving PA's more autonomy than NPs.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia OK... Other than your emotional and irrational hatred of NPs which statistically provide care equal to or better than physicians (bedside manner, emotional social intelligence, and other soft skills) we have 32 million people being added to the health care roles in 2014, and tens of millions more baby boomers needing increased health services... How do they get care if "Citizen of Dystopia" is president? I have nothing against D.O.s, just remarking on history...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 Right, framing it as me being emotional and irrational is the way to win an argument. Again, the solution is not giving autonomy to lesser trained individuals. I'm okay with the role of NP's and PA (thought I prefer PA's because they receive 2,400 hours of clinical training and NP's get 700 and an online degree). Look at my other posts, I've suggested opening more residency slots. If your concern is bedside manner, DO's created the holistic approach and MD's could easily learn it.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia You think the experience that nurses have within the medical field doesn't more than account for the extra time that PAs are required to have in clinical (these people for the most part have never worked in a health care setting nor have they EVER been required to do clinical before their PA degree). Nurses learn a lot of the basics and have been practicing them for years(usually) before they go back to NPschool. PAs, 99% of them have never done and I.V. or any other basics.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 Being able to put in IV's and shadow doctors cannot replace clinical training and does not help when it comes to diagnostic and dispensing of drugs. I know a nurse turned to doctor. He said his 15 years in the field as a nurse didn't give him a leg up for the USMLE or many other aspects of becoming and being a physician. The whole point of nurses even existing is that they are professionals and experts in their own right. This does not make them expert in another field.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia So you're misrepresenting my argument on purpose... that's fine. Obviously we can agree to disagree. You talk about a nurse, not a nurse practitioner-- yeah, there's a difference. And you give no credit to that "nurse turned doctor" for his 15 years of experience before he decided to get his physician crudentials... Please... I find it highly unlikely anyone would say they didn't learn anything in 15 years of being a nurse that helps them be a better doctor.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 I don't see how I misrepresent anything. I speak of a nurse turned doctor because your comparison is that a nurse turned nurse practitioner is "better" than a physician or physician assistant for the simple fact that they had been nurses and have put IVs before. You can find it unlikely all you want, but until you become a physician, your comment on that is completely irrelevant.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia Again, misrepresenting my argument. In some areas Nurse Practitioners are better than doctors. I never said NPs can do 100% of what doctors do which you're assuming I said (reading deficency or emotion?)... I said on average within their scope of practice NPs and PAs can do 80-90% depending on the state. Anyhow, you should learn how to read and take your emotions out of the argument (take some liberal arts classes) and learn this twisting would never work on debate team.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia Anyhow, again 99% of PAs probably have never worked in a healthcare setting. It's prudent they have much more clinical time vs. most nurse practitioners which have been working in healthcare learning the basics and expanding their real world knowledge for a few years on average before they jump to the next level. Anyhow, I've noticed all of your arguments depend on trashing others... almost none of them actually revolve around solving the healthcare crisis...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 I think you're completely wrong. The PAs get more clinical hours based on the new job description that they will have. They will be doing exams, histories, medicating patients, etc. The nurse practitioners are receiving a 1/3 of the training and obtaining a new role in health care. It doesn't matter (for example) how many stroke patients you've looked after. This doesn't make you versed on the dangers of different medications. I already addressed solutions. You just don't like them.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia Your so called solutions aren't based in reality. Also, you can think whatever you want, but your version of reality verges on emotionally charged infantilism with no studies to back up your hatred of nurse practitioners. Yes, nurses are your enemy, they're evil... they'll take your job because they provide the same quality or better care and cost less...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 I don't know why you think that my solutions are out of reality. Opening more slots for residencies is something out of this world? How do you think there will be more health care professionals if NP's area already working? What you want is zero overhead, which is unsafe for patients. Hopefully you at least have the decency to call for NP's to pay their own liability insurance. Soon we'll see how much "cheaper" it is for you and america to pay insurance instead of being chart checked
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia Ironically, that type of thinking is ridiculous since there's absolutely no physicians I know who are unemployed... I wonder why that is? BECAUSE THERE'S A SHORTAGE!!! Interestingly enough, I see the problem with people who have a very limited liberal arts education... they don't see the big picture and everything comes down to blaring insecurities. Don't worry, even with NPs and PAs taking on more in the medical field, you'll still have a job as a doctor.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 If you ever make it into and graduate from med school...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 I have zero doubt I'll graduate from medical school and be a physician that will make his patient's life better, but I understand your misguided anger as someone that could never make it into medical school. I find it ironic that you try to attack me based on education when your by default is less than it.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@jackooboy1 I think you're the one mistaken. I haven't said doctors will not have jobs, and I don't have a hatred of NP's. I haven't called for a lesser role for NP's. In fact, I'd be all for training them in such a way that they could practice in more fields than FP (like PA's do). What I don't agree is an autonomous, taking over primary care, type of role. As for my education, I have a double major in social sciences and do have an acceptance into medical school.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@CitizenofDystopia: Do let us know if you feel the same way after you complete your training, get out of school, get a job and get about 12 years of post graduate patient care experience--all of which was the average experience of my NP cohort. Ironically, by that time all NP's will have been doctors by more than 15 years or so.
DLuckyFNP 1 year ago
@DLuckyFNP So you're saying that NP's, who have acquired a new skill in diagnosing and treating patients, should have their clinical training be less because they were doing a job that was not diagnosing and treating patients but in the same field? Would you be in favor of waiving all clinical training for CNA's that have 10 years experience and go onto get their RN?
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
@DLuckyFNP To be fair, they'll have been Noctors for that long, splitting, driving wedges in the healthcare team approach, and pushing the idea that 1/10th-1/5th clinical hours are equivalent with no understanding of the medicine they are practicing.
Future? Just hire PA's and avoid hiring NP's. The anesthesiologist have started learning this after moving too slow to react to the CRNA militancy.
jasiodjasiodjasoidia 8 months ago
@jackooboy1 And yes, there is an increase in geriatrics, but that problem shouldn't be addressed by giving lesser qualified individuals right to practice. The problem could be alleviated more if the government stopped cutting down on medicare reimbursement and medical schools would be able to increase their class sizes. Currently they don't because there are not enough clerkships and residencies.
CitizenofDystopia 1 year ago
I think the logic follows... NP's are going to DNP's in 2015, and are more than capable of providing primary care as it is with a master's degree. You'll be able to supply more nurse practitioners to the field through establishing independence of the profession because DNP's don't want to be playing 2nd fiddle to a DO or MD when it really isn't necessary and they have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in their own practice.
jackooboy1 1 year ago
So your argument goes... people need health care services, NP's are in the position to provide those services, but they require independence from physicians to do so?
Not seeing how that follows logically -> go find a collaborating physician (it's not difficult).
zfellows 1 year ago
Thanks for watching. The issue is not where finding a collaborating physician exists on the difficulty continuum--the issue is in the appropriateness of mandating a physician (or anyone outside of nursing for that matter) supervisor as a requirement for NP's to function and how this serves as a barrier to access to health care. In California--no physician supervisor--no NP practice. It's that simple. This is the essence of the barrier.
DLuckyFNP 1 year ago