Gene Simmons and Bob Lefsetz battle at Canadian Music Week 2009

[jackrowet1234]

WOW Gene is suchy a Cunt... Look at how he just stands there at the end, trying to be centre of attention, after he just got shut-the-fuck-down, and put in his place... hahahaha

[MrTroyTempest]

Simmons was right when he said he has a fiDOUCHEiary doody.

[Kanadianas]

We need to keep gene simmons out of canada and away from our artists. Guy is a joke and a sell out. He sells figurines and clocks and socks of his own band to make money. I don't want my music to be a buisness. I buy cds and go see shows for bands that I love which has actual musicans. I'm not interested in buying clocks and comic books, that no longer has anything to do with music.

[notaclerk1]

ok, who is Lefsetz?,,,you know I think I just made my point.

[TheHockeyCentral]

@notaclerk1 That you're a dumbass? That point? Yeah you made it, man. Loud and clear.

[DWardall]

Gene is an absolute tool. Bob knows his s.h.i.t. - subscribe to his newsletter; the guy is a real music fan as well.

[ozpowermo]

Gene got owned:

"They'll let you stay in their house, fuck their sister and pay you on the way out..."

[madshadows830]

Like Gene says "who are you?". Who is this clown? Look at him sqirming in his seat...Does he have to take a piss?

[alephfredhead]

speaking of music and money, JFJO is offeing new album "Winterwood" for FREE @ JFJO . com Its awesome, Bob lefsetz would like it....

[CateKusti]

Ooooh. I wish I'd attended this.

[BeNgEE08]

I think company's like Live Nation are the future. Bob is more knowledgeable were Gene is more charismatic and a better communicator

[rob899]

I agree with Lefsetz.. I personally believe the music industry is heathly and headed in the right direction. Despite music being downloaded for free bands are able to promote themselve online and have a target audience that consist of billions of people. Band's should start doing what Radiohead did for their album In Rainbows and let the fans pay what they want. Even if you pay $5 for an album atleast the band recieves 100% and not just a small portion.

[NappyHeadedHorse]

The music industry is healthy? O RLY? Thanks Bob Lefsetz! your delusional approach to saving the industry is far superior to Simmons' moronic approach

[BeNgEE08]

the whole thing is 33 mins long do u hve it all

[megadethguy]

Gene is a trainwreck of existence. I'm waiting for the homemade porn of sophie to "leak".

[manzi71]

i hope I'm in it!!

[ransackk]

I Believe that Gene & Bob both have strong opinions that are valid. To sum it up, the music industry is over-saturated and no matter what anyone says, money still speaks louder for the one who have it towards getting noticed with promotion & Marketing. As for Bob's point, it's still is a strong music industry but what has to be done is more promotion online via major labels being on the same level as the manager, promoters, marketers etc. True fans will remain fans and still buy the music!

[TalkMusicBiz]

Gene has a boss to answer for that only knows old school.....he's not n control, UMG is.That's why he sounds the same as the rest. Bob on the other advocates macros thinking on an individual / indie level with new form thinking........of which still lacks relevant info IMO.

[Shako73]

Gene lives in the past, but I wish him well.

Yes, Bob is more accurate on today's realities.

This brings nothing new, nobody learns from "shows" like these, I think. Still, it was a good confrontation, the newsletters and then the face to face debate were quite entertaining. But from all that, I've learned nothing.

[gregbass73]

What Gene advocates seems to be more of the same.. the labels on top, taking bands under their wing, nurturing them until they "break". This didn't work so well in the old days for the few bands that did make it. Corporations full of suits, with a few musicians sprinkled in never really had the interests of the bands at heart. It was the bottom line, pure and simple. Which meant most groups got ignored, or ground up in the system. Internet-savvy bands now have an alternative.

[TalkMusicBiz]

Does anyone know if Bob ever took an artist or a label to the top or anywhere near it? Has Gene ever taken anyone but KISS to the top? Where is the hit song today? Like Bob said "Everyone knows more about the internet than Gene" So why do people still pay both these guys to show up and talk......think about it.

[ArtTric69]

Bob is a genius about life and the music industry. Gene is an asshole with no talent still trying to ride on a ruse. Kiss sucked and you know it.

[1picturethis]

a genius about life and the music industry? Oh please, give me a break. Lefsetz is no such thing. He's a bigger shill than any of them, promoting nothing but his own opinions and rhetoric B.S. and you know it.

[djc43077]

If that's all you think about Lefstez, I'd say you must be a KISS fan.

[ankhfkhonsu]

Kiss and Simmons are obviously untalented and complete garbage. Anyone knows that they are a total joke

Lefsetz does say some interesting things from time to time but he wanks on and on. He loves to kiss ass with his own (very well-known) assholes like Bruce Allen, and of course, his "buddy", Jake Gold, who is despised byeveryone in the business in Canada, who has had anything to do with him

[rootehound]

Bob's model forces the artist to also be a businessperson. Artsists should concentrate on "art". Gene's model makes the artist an employee of the company, giving the company too much control of the "art". Bob's "record company anarchy" is not the answer, but neither is Gene's "record company dictatorship".

If I was putting out an album today, I'd go with an indie label with distribution. One that knows both the old & new models and can handle both. (Brasuk, Sub Pop, etc., come to mind)

[djc43077]

What you seem to be missing is that if you were putting out an album today, you'd have to very lucky AND talented to get an Indie label with distribution to with YOU. If you pay closer attention, Lefsetz doesn't advocate "record company anarachy"... that's a ridiculous notion entirely. He explains that record companies today are virtually irrelevant and unnecessary.

[rootehound]

I'm missing your point. Neither Gene or Bob is talking about DIYers. For them the internet is THE greatest thing ever invented. They are talking about bands that have signed with a label, big or small. Record companies are not irrelevant and unnecessary. Somone still needs to handle promotion, bookeeping, etc. Is that now up to the band? Do they need to be musicians and businesspeople? That's what the label is for. Maybe I should have said Bob advocates record "industry" anarchy, not "company".

[puercovaliente2340]

I'm not an expert by far, but how about managers? Like happens with many classical artists - they got managers who do all those things until reputation is high enough, and even then the managers stick around. Distribution could very well be "personal" if digital; I think it's kind of a new paradigm that reduces the area of impact but makes it a lot more meaningful (aka builds harder fans). Sure, you won't fill up stadiums in Brazil but then again is that even necessary?

[DickVain41]

Bob and Gene know fuck all about Indie's or DIY that's a fact! The internet is a great thing but for 20 years 1978 to 1998 (1998 is when I got my first computer) I personally seen 100's of band's and bought a ton of CD's and vinyl and it had fuck all to do with the internet! The internet is a great thing but if it did not exist I would have just carried on doing the same thing (mail-order and record stores and fanzines and indie mags)

[madshadows830]

Who is this Lefstz anyways? He sure as hell isn't a musician.

I won't talk about he looks,but yikes!!!!

If he is Irvings shill,he's not a good one. Gene makes toast out of him.

[cynicanalytic]

Thing thing that Gene and Bob have in common is that they're both idealists.  The problem is, they're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Gene is all business and Bob is all artist. They're both not wrong in their arguments, but they're not right either. They're struggling to plant a stake in the quicksand terrain that is the music industry. That said, I'm giving Bob the +1 because of his humility and willingness to shut the fuck up once in a while.

[selectiveimageinc]

I'm wondering what all the hype was about when Gene and Belinda were first talking about a 'new' record company here in Canada. Was it a ruse? A little white lie to try to get bands out there more comfortable with the majors. Bull...and poo on you Gene. That wasn't very nice to us who are struggling to make a strong musical community. Nasty business when people lie to their 'product'.

[fhagey]

Gene talks about these huge artists that are coming from his record label, but he never mentions what the bands/artists are.

What is Gene shilling? A company with no product? I don't really care what these guys have to say. It is the same BS over, and over, and over again.

Gene let me know the name of the band. I'll go download their music, and I'll let it speak for itself.

[rootehound]

This is interesting stuff... I've been in the music industry for over 35 years. I susbscibe to Bob's e-mail. I also made a lot of money off of Kiss' albums in their heyday. These two guys need to join forces. The problem I have with Bob is his model of the music industry is not a business model. His ideas are fine, but I see no way the industry makes money. Gene, on the other hand, is all about money. His model shows little room for "organic" artist growth. We need a middle ground. Great video!

[puercovaliente2340]

I believe that's because Bob is concentrated not on a corporate model but on a more individual one, which is waaaay more demanding for the artist and leaves the "industry" completely out of the loop. He kind of advocates for a return to an arts & crafts model in which the artist has a somewhat limited production, but if we take the internet into account, then it has enormous exposition (distribution, OTOH, should that be personal too? That's where the industry as we know it currently comes in)

[1picturethis]

prodrumman, if you read Bob's email blog on a regular basis, it's also pretty evident that Bob is an A##Hole too. Regardless whether KISS was cartoon music or not, at least they MADE music and did something creative. What is Bob's purpose? He's an armchair critic who does nothing but attack other people's work. He doesn't ADD any value to the music industry. Bob, when you personally attack people in your emails, even A-holes like Gene have a right to respond and defend themselves.

[puercovaliente2340]

Neither does Gene add anything new. Present tense. He talks about how he's gonna rescue the whole industry but it seems like he has no idea how, and is falling in the very same loops the business is currently suffering for.Bob won't do anything because action is on the artists' hands,not their labels'.I think he's throwing around some good ideas in his blog; sure,many of it is just endless blabber, but if you look through all of that, I think he's had some valuable insights artists can act upon.

[1picturethis]

i didn't hear gene say he was going to 'rescue the whole industry.' he's just talking about what their label wants to do. at least starting a label is DOING something, attempting to contribute to an artist's career. i guess it remains to be seen whether they have any success, but it's an ACTION, an effort at least to DO something creative. as opposed to lefsetz, who like you say, does nothing but endless blabber, and usually it's negative blabber that does nothing and goes nowhere. no value

[ankhfkhonsu]

Kiss would be perfect for today's record business. Unfortunately, given this era of record economics, there are only a few Las Vegas-style 'music' acts that can be vomited out at one time.

For the vast sea of musicians out there, resign yourself to the fact that there is no economic model. In the past, nobody--and this is the great irony--other than a few at the top (and their labels, managers, agents etc.) made any money, but at least one knew how it worked.

[deniserollin]

i was here, it was intense and there was a lot of hostility in the room.

nonetheless it was a good experience!

[prodrumman]

PART 1 1st let me say, I am a huge Kiss fan. The reason Kiss is still around today is because they started when the labels gave a band time to develop & grow. They released 3 albums and were about to be dropped when Alive broke them big. Next album, Destroyer made them huge but it's been mostly downhill from there, 77-78. Yes, they were cartoonish and simplistic but Gene turned the band name into a brand name and banked the money, this money has payed their way to today. Continued below...

[prodrumman]

PART 2 That being said, Bob is right when he says, "everyone in the room knows more about the internet than Gene Simmons." Savy business man that he is, Gene seems unwilling, just like all the major labels, to embrace the idea of digital sales and the business model of today. The record companies dropped the ball and there is no going back, no matter how much money they or Gene throw at the problem. And yes, Gene is an A**Hole, if you read Bob's e mail blog this is pretty evident.

[fairblonde]

Face it, Gene: Bob is right. Your old-school aspirations won't float in today's market and you don't know the audience out there. So KISS can sell a stadium full in South America - what about Peoria? Or even L.A.? Rethink this, because it could be cool for KISS to have a second life. Hey! Maybe that's it! Maybe KISS should be on Second Life! I am serious!

[selectiveimageinc]

I wholeheartedly agree with you on certain points. People don't care about good music anymore because you're right, they don't hear it. They can't hear it because of the three strikes your out position the majors put on their A&R guys. The industry has overlooked good music for glitz and pretty people. You may like KISS for whatever reason. I fail to see the comparison - Simmons and 'good' music? Simmons and money - that's what I'm talking about.

[goosman99]

I think we'd be better off with three strikes, right now it's one strike. If that debut doesn't pop right off the bat, you're done. It doesn't matter if you signed with a three, four or five record deal; if record one doesn't sell, they'll never take records two through five.

[selectiveimageinc]

My LA partner chats up the labels all the time. They''re basically sunk regardless - they've made the scene over the last 10 years pretty and sexy - nada about music. Hard hitting big cash scene - three strikes you're out - not in releases for one band, but three artists fail - You're out! The funniest part is, the big bucks in 'promotions' budgets tacked on to the liability to the band contracts are not audited. Bands should be demanding these audits. Then all would know who legitimately fails.

[selectiveimageinc]

Gene made it during the years when 'flash' was in and record companies had full ownership of the musical world. Things have changed now where the smart band knows how to make a few bucks without them. Problem, they still have more money than all of us. So they still rule unfortunately. They can make or break a band in no time simply by not promoting. Gene falls into the category of wanting to make money for himself. He doesn't care about music. He cares about how to further himself by exposure.

[drmrsdad]

No!!! Gene, made it during the years when the Majors cared about music and the Musician! When guys like Ahmet Ertegun had ears for music. Do you think bands like Rush, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, could have ever made it in this "Healthy" music industry?????. I think not, No one gets to hear good music anymore, becuase the market is cluded with crap and kids just don't care anymore, becuase off all the crap they've been fed over the past decade

[7artsmusic]

Kiss has always been cartoon music - no relationship with roots rock and roll. Simmons is just a con man - a very unattractive self-serving goat who thinks the public exists to be fleeced.

[drmrsdad]

I didn't hear about this Battle between Gene & Bob until I read his letter on March 12, Bob took the first punch!

"Gene with that bizarre hairdo sponsored by Brillo maintaining that 360 deals are good for artists and that Canada can be the new Ireland."I can go on and on and on with comments Bob has made about Bono, Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, some valid and some as inconsiderate and vicious as Gene's rheotoric.Karma Bob, Deal with it! Long Live Rock N Roll!!

[mrbrownstone9]

please upload whole thing

[CarolineMunro]

Gene Simmons is embarrassing.

[OriginalRitz]

i wanted to go to this! but bob didn't really announce where and when this was going down. how did anyone find out about this to attend it? i would have loved to have gone...

[russfr]

Bob's column just tells everyone and anyone that what they are doing is wrong and suggest a VAGUE way to do it better. But Bob hasn't proven that he can do it. It's like these idiots trying to tell you how to make millions stuffing envelopes. Well if it was so easy WHY NOT DO IT YOURSELF?

He clearly doesn't like KISS for whatever reason and slams everything they do. Well KISS has found ways to keep their fans happy for years. Something Bob harps on. I'm done with the bald Jewish guy.

[alzabo]

Even in that short blurb Simmons got OWNED, what a clown....

[robmeurer]

Gene Simmons is a rock god?!? Christ, what are you high on? Kiss is and always was a joke band, showbiz, pure and simple (and simplistic).

[Fenderballer]

Joke band? Are 20 Gold albums a joke?

And so what if they're simplistic, kid. They're rock and roll, not progressive. Gene Simmons is one of the most recognizable figures, today. Making him a rock god. So yell at the Ramones, Led Zeppelin, Sex Pistols, Beatles, Stones for being simplistic, but the fact is, it's music. Go cry about three chord rock somewhere else.

[KNOWF0REVER]

Okay he knows how to make money.. but his music his meaningless crap, and he's shallow and ugly

[lynalove]

Gene turns musical projects into GOLD for his label. Bob, what have you done for a single artist in this business?

Bob says the popular thing when he wants to be treated a certain way & bitches when someone is mean to him.

Who is meaner & more base then Bob when he gets a hate on for someone?

Joker!

LAZY industry, and those whom he strokes in his blog, LOVE to hire bob - he stirs up a crowd & talks boy-talk right to the base of the boys in this industry.

[lynalove]

Gene has been a Rock God since he was in his 20's. He has the success to back his arrogance. Bob is a bag of hot air that rehashes the blogs of better writers & the words of more qualified folks he forgets to give credit to.

[michaelmangia]

i think both have a point of view, neither is wrong. But the best part is seeing Bob play with his shoes while he's talking!

[TheRanjSinghBand]

Whatever happened to being unique sounding in some way, different from the thousands of singer songwriters out there, and growing a fan base. If people like what they hear they will tell others to listen. Guys like Simmons have money and can make anyone a hit in there own world. Play in front of complete strangers, and listen to the feedback. If it's positive, then your on the right track.

Thanks for telling the truth Bob.

[LexNinJew]

bands and corporate structure working together?? no more suits? what utopian parkway is Simmons riding on? just embrace the new model and except the old is DEAD. Masels Bob!! and for those that don't READ Bob's stuff - he does love music, and is completely about advancing the artform

[arrogant25]

Bob owed Simmons. Although this video doesn't show it...

[goldfinger1919]

Bob is my hero.

[oierecords]

FUCK Gene Simmons, he's a pathetic old clown.

[castravalva]

Oh, now the bands and the corperations depend on each other? Brilliant! I almost shed a tear over that one. AtomicFinger blog...

[MikeG666]

Gene Simmons FTW, Bob sucks

[kissman16]

The problem with this funny looking guy is that he rips Gene in his column and because he doesn't agree with Gene's business model (or like KISS), Gene is this A-hole.

Gene has a point of view and it's one that people can embrace or reject. All this guy is critic who gets to sit in front of his computer and in between fap sessions, can critique anyone he wants and doesn't put his own money where his mouth is. It's an easy job and certainly isn't an important one.

So, in short, f*ck him.

[MarkhamStreetMichael]

Which funny looking guy? The one with the face-lift? The one with the fake tan? The one with the dyed black hair? Or the balding middle aged guy who looks his age and is ready to have an actual conversation?

[xLauraC]

Please post more!!!

[rockyrandymac]

Bob knows His stuff. Gene is a Shill.

[jonothatsme]

MUST see more of this

[WheatusOfficial]

I like bob....but he doesn't like it when artists act like execs....standard fail

brendan b brown

wheatus

[billyhume]

More!!!!!!!!

[hurtmanager]

Yes, where is the rest? This is like getting the interview after an amazing 12 round heavyweight fight...

[chadkfan74]

Where's the rest!

[rpachter]

Would have like to see what preceded this "closing statement."

[bradarains]

I think they're both a couple of tools, but we know Gene's is bigger! Bob gets it, he just never shuts up. Gene doesn't get it, and he never shuts up either. Score one for the little bald guy I guess. At least he's funny as hell.