Matt, you are a scrub, nobody likes you. Dave and Joe and the Orc guy are way cooler than you. Cheating like this is only way you keep winning. Fuck you scrub.
At that point, I feel like "going blind" can steer the game back on course, where you just tell your friend(s), let's just make some crazy "fun" lists in secret and throw them at eachother and see who is standing when the dust clears. It can't be a permanent solution though, because in situations like that it seems like someone always gets completely destroyed.
However, if army tailoring isn't regulated to some extent, the game becomes a never ending arms race that leaves a bitter taste in everyone's mouth because it starts to become less about the game and having fun, and more about trumping your friend for no reason other than to say you can..."I don't care if you take A, I'll just take B...well if you take B, then I'll take C" and that's when it becomes stupid and a waste of time...
There's a time and place for tailoring, "going blind", and "all-comers". Obviously all-comers lists (or as close as you can get) are the only way to go if you're serious about tournaments, but I find that the game can get boring if you play the same all-comers armies together all the time. So tailoring makes it challenging and adds dimension to an otherwise stale and unsurprising game...
this is just me, but I think games would be more interesting if you only know the army your playing, not knowing if it is mechanized or not makes it more challenging
Ahhh, its ok Matt. Look, with wargaming to some it's about just winning and beating the other to a pulp, I honestly think that it is for fun, creativity and to have a good challenge. If you think the former and its all just bitching and winning, get the templates out of your ass and play like the rest of us.
I like how Matt and the other people at miniwargaming always seem to be so excited about the games and stuff. It shows that they made the perfect career choice, especially when they also have time to make these videos to talk about whatevers on their mind after the games. Too bad I live in a different country, so I will never see the miniwargaming-store :E I would take your store over any other hobbystore any day! Thanks for all the videos and keep up the good work!
I tailor my list to the ideal I have for my army- my space marine army is supposed to despise chaos above all, so I take a lot of plasmas and meltas, my Eldar are a Swordwind force, so they have a bit of everything, and my Dark Eldar are in the same boat.
surely if you play against the same set of people you'r going to list tailor sub-consciously anyway, its something thats gonna happen, just makes the game a bit more challenging as you'd have to rely more heavily on tactics and dice rolls to win
@AGrumpyPanda Also fair enough. Also ive seen them been used quite effectively. Perhaps not a whole ARMY ! but say 3 squads ? Also i just think they look cool and he has not seemed to use them a whole ton in his videos.
@zMirrororriMz I agree absolutely, snipers OWN when used correctly. I run a ten-man Ranger squad upgraded to Pathfinders, with a Farseer with guide and fortune nearby. Re-rolling snipers with AP 1 on a 5+ to hit, and a 2+ cover save with re-rolls? Yes please!
@AGrumpyPanda sounds affective indeed :D ! and ya see thats what im saying is everytime ive seen him bring in the deathmarks they all DIE right away and never cause any damage and to me this is disapointing because they are not a weak unit when used right .
i suggest you watch people play for a little bit and just start small if you do git in the game you might want to git black reach it is good if you plan to git 1 of thos armies but if you dont like thous armies it would be a wast of your money. mat also has starter ideas and help to learn the rules How to Play Warhammer 40k Episode 1 Part 1
Someone! Please help! i'm a noob to the new miniature game and i was wondering- do i need to get the rulebook AND the codex to my chapter? or does the rulebook already contain every chapters codex? Do i need both? Help!!!
@SourTunaMilk the rulebook does not have the codex's but you may not want to buy one at this point, perhasps borrow a friends or one from a library....
@SourTunaMilk i suggest you watch people play for a little bit and just start small if you do git in the game you might want to git black reach it is good if you plan to git 1 of thos armies but if you dont like thous armies it would be a wast of your money. mat also has starter ideas and help to learn the rules How to Play Warhammer 40k Episode 1 Part 1
If you're playing a mech list and you don't kill the scarabs you're done. They will tear you to pieces. Also he was playing against necrons where every gun can glance a vehicle, stun locking is the shit.
I've been playing 40k going on 3 years now. When I first started playing I went into a lot of games blind and I still do in tourments. As far as tailoring a list to beat your oppent that nows how you play and what you bring...I would have to say that it's ok. I for one like your batraps they have helped me become a better tyraind player and a better space marine player. No game will be perfect but as long as you have fun. And in the end thats what matters.
heres what I will say, I think if you learn what people like to take and you play against those people quite often then I dont see any problem with tailoring ur list to play against his. That being said I also think that you should try to go more so for an overall playable list simply because if you only play certain people then when u play someone else with the same army type (SM, CSM, etc) then you almost hurt urself because u dont know where u need to focus fire for some units.
A true general/commander/overlord/warboss/etc will bring the proper weapons to a fight. What's the expression? "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight?"
My friends and I have an unwritten agreement: we tell each other our basic list, but then we both trailer our lists to counter the other. This usually ends up for fun and unpredictable games. Half of decent strategy is the meta-game.
I'm just saying what I think Don't get me wrong if the people he plays with are ok with that that's up to them and all the best to them. But for myself I think it takes the what if factor out of the game and there's no surprises.
Again I may be attacked for this belief but I feel that it is alright to ask what army they are bringing (Such as Orks or Imperial Guard) but asking what type of playstyle is a bit much. I mean if you find that opponents are catching onto your playstyle then change it up. Changing it up can cause you to run into armies you weren't designed for but at this point it gives you a chance to learn the intricacies of your army and make you take chances that you wouldn't take normally.
I have been wargaming since 2000 and frankly I am surprised at all the negative comments on list tailoring. Every wargame I have played list tailoring was part of the game. I have done it and have lost and had it done to me and have won. Lists aren't everything, the way you play takes a lot into account as well as the dice rolls. Don't let the nay sayers get you down! Your batreps are amazing, keep up the great work!
Won't a S6+ blast weapon instant-death 2 bases per wound due to the Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates rule and the ID rule stacking? It'd be the S6+ instant death per wound, then double wounds due to the vulnerable to blast/templates rule ('if the unit is not a vehicle, then each unsaved wound is doubled to two wounds' - p76 MRB).
So if the LRE wounded 3 scarabs with its main gun, 6 BASES would die (due to T3 and the AP2 of the Main Gun ignoring the save). So I think he wiped that unit of scarabs.
You should be able to know what army your opponent is bringing but not what type of that army. For example you should know that it is imperial guard but the information should end there. You should not know if it is mechanized or not (this implies you need to make an adaptable list).
Wow..you're trying to justify list tailoring. You should already have your list done before you even know who you're playing. To know what army they are bringing is unfair and no matter how you try to justify it, it's list tailoring. If you know you're going up against xenos, you know you don't have to worry about to many 3+ saves. List tailoring is never okay and don't try to say that it is in any sense...this is silly..
@chaoticflanagan Under most circumstances yes. But when they know that Matt is using Necrons, AND have seen videos of him using his army configurations before? To go in blind against that is already trying to win a race with 1 leg.
Matt I really don't like the way you ask what there having in there army. I think its unfair on your opponent and takes the fun out or the game finding out what they have ON THE DAY. I really hope this changes.
I didn't have any doubt in my mind that you were being a cheese monkey. In fact I wish more players were as fun to play against as you (not that I've had the pleasure, but I've seen enough batt-reps to easily tell you're a fun guy).
Besides, coming from a purely business standpoint, it would be in your interest to lose more then win.
Either way, I think you're top shelf Matt, keep up the awesome vids.
Even with Necrons, the advantage of having a fair number of Ghost Arks means you can broadside those guardsman and open fire, so i think mis-matched armies are better.
Two mis-matched armies makes the game more interesting. You almost estimate what your opponent is likely to use. e.g. For eldar, if i'm playing heavy armoured infantry e.g. Space Marines i'll put howling banshees in, or if I'm going against lightly armoured infantry i'll switch banshees out and put in striking scorpions instead. If two mis-matched armies come up against each other, you have to think more about what your going to do in order to adapt to your enemy.
I don't understand how people can say all this when any challenger can tailor his list to the two armies u have unlike you where all u knew was that it was mechanized guard. Any one that follows ur videos know basically what you'd be able to field against there's tailoring their list to the options you have. Maybe if u had like 4+ armies to choose from to where it was more of a surprise then asking for what the challenger might be bringing would be a lil unfair.
@xxTheCromwellxx He has. Although I can't recall exactly when. I think he loost quite recently playing his space marines. And he lost with his necrons a few times too.
Great response to the comments you received. And great to learn from. As someone building a tyranid army I'm now a little more terrified of my buddy's IG army...
@BlueCometGamer And since you're giving money I feel you're allowed to tailor, and even if he'd only said "Imperial Guard" you'd still know there'd be lots of mecha to shred.
I think list tailoring should happen so that the games are interesting. If you've ever played a game were the armies are miss matched you know how bad it can be. One sided games are no fun to watch or to play.
In all seriousness. Matt gives out money to people that beat him, and he doesn't get any instant gratification for winning (yes he gets to make a video), so i think it is fairly fair that he can tailor his list.
I'd say that you really didn't talor your list seeing as the fact that 95% of the list people field now are all tanks. If anything making a all anti tank list is the smart thing to do now!
I know that when I make a tournament list its always made as an all comers list because you could end up facing anyone. But in a pre-determined match I don't think I could bring myself to make a list not suitable to face my opponent. That just leads to 1 sided games when you have a balanced army against an all mech list and you don't have enough Anti Tank to deal with it. I am sorry but mech is too over used and too powerful. Thankfully its time is coming to an end.
I thought everything was fine to begin with and the fact that you had to explain yourself was stupid. I saw the same mistakes as they happened and everything just came down to your scarabs. Everything else just kinda helped. And as far as "Tailoring" goes. If your opponent knows what army you are bringing and you know what they are bringing then why would you not to some degree make a suitable list?
hey man nothing at all wrong with tailoring your list, it happens in real life warfare so nothing wrong with using it in a war game, people whining about a tailored list are just mech spammers or inexperienced players... as long as it is mutually agreed and mutually understood its all good...
Hi guys can someone please tell me who is a good apocalypse army to collect, currently I am collect necrons and I don't want them in apocalypse. Plz reply, thankyou!!!!!
It pains me that you think that because something is instakilling your swarms that suddenly they are immune to the primary weakness of swarms, blasts. That 1 plasma cannon should have dealt a lot more damage than it did. I know you don't think you are wrong, but I cannot see the logic in ignoring 1 rule because another one is also in effect at the same time.
In regards to tailoring, I think tailoring is fine as what you said is true, but asking beyond the army they are bringing (ie BA) is wrong
Nice reflection on the battle,more is learned in analyzing the reasons for a defeat than reasons for victory.As for tailoring lists,i play 2nd edit...who wouldnt load heavy bolters with hellfire when facing tyrannids,or lose flamers in place of power weapons when facing necrons?Some degree of tweaking is necessary and makes common sense.Matt the shock attack gun is the best anti armour weapon in the 40k(2nd edit) universe,ignores los,ignores armour etc.Keep the battreps coming,nice work!
I personally think you should make a list and stick to it. Sure you can switch things up here and there if you find your list isn't working the way you want but I don't change my list to suit the army I'm facing. I just bring the noise and hope for the best.
@MoreDakka101 Then you're alittle bad of a WH40K player or any kind of RTS/Table top player.
If you was facing a friend who you KNEW always went a certain composition, you would tailor your army to counter that, and they would likely tailor their list to counter the main composition you try and use.
@red244 No, I'm just someone who can make an army that defeats all comers.
That makes me a superior player.
It's like when you make a tournament deck for Magic the Gathering. Your deck has to be able to defeat anything it faces (short of a few side bar cards you can swap). Same goes for table top. If I could bring every miniature I ever had to a tourney and pick and chose which I could use in each game, it would be easy.
@MoreDakka101 The point I made was he would cater his army to counter yours, and you try to cater yours to beat his.
If it's a tournament I don't believe they allow you to change your army between matches, atleast not the entire army list. I've played unfair games and held my own.
@red244 yeah and that's fine to do in fun games and such. I tend to prefer to go with the tourney style. Do I win every game? Not at all (I need more battlewagons) but I think it takes more skill to make an army that can fight anyone than one tailored for a specific game.
1,500pts necrons (previous ed.), 1,000pts of Space marines and a armoured devision of Imperial guard vs. about 25,000 pts of space marines. The staff tried to balance it by offering us a Titian of choice. We refused and managed to kill off half their army before losing.
Hate it when GW Staff dont make the rules of the battle clear before hand otherwise would of brought more of a army.
@MoreDakka101 Lol Titans are cool but the only ones I like look wise are the Ork's Stompa (but Orks look pretty cool anyway) and the Volcano Cannon variant of the Baneblade.
List tailoring is fine as long as both players has the same level of knowledge about eachothers lists beforehand. Personally I dont like either me nor my opponent knowing anything before at the table. (even with the occationally bad matchups)
Are people complaining that Matts opponents don't know what Matt is bringing? Watch the damned videos! It is either (shocker!) Necrons, or (shocker #2) Tyranids! More so the first. The opponents probably have a better chance to list tailor then Matt.
Canoptek Scarabs are nightmarish units. They won me my last game against Tyranids by tarpitting the centre of his army, flaying the armour off a Carnifex and racking up an ungodly number of kills. They are HUGELY powerful, and any Mech player that lets them get into combat might as well declare 'gg' and walk away from the table.
of course you didnt tailor. You could have had Anrakyr, you could have had as many as 24 more scarabs. You could have done a lot more to crush his army knowing he was Mech.
That said, i still think that you misplayed the blast on scarabs by only killing 3 bases instead of 6.
I have to disagree with your last point. It is possible to build a list capable of taking on any army, though you cannot depend on your unit choices alone to win a game. It comes down to use and the tactics applied against each opponent.
I think that all-comers lists are best but if it's mutual that both sides have some idea what the other guy has then that can be interesting too. It's more of a challenge to face a "bad matchup" and can force you to think about new tactics.
there wasnt anything unfair or somthing like this,but even if there been -
life isnt supposed to be "fair" or "fair" for everybody or always "fair", since any game is kinda parallel to the real life, it isnt supposed to be "fair" as well.
I agree with you that if the armies aren't matched well it's no fun. I have played less than 10 games and my first game all I had was AoBR Space Marines and I faced my buddies Orks of equal points that he bought instead of getting a preset. He ran me over, just completely owned me. It sucked hard. So tailoring to an extent is always good. And definitely agree on Hindsight. So many of my games I see flaws in my tactics during Hindsight.
To be honest, I don't think that what you did was list tailoring at all - in 5th edition everyone brings anti tank. There's a reason that the meltagun is the most popular special weapon these days. Scarabs are your anti tank. In an all comers list, you'd have lots of them too, since every army except Tyranids and sometimes Orks relies heavily on transports and vehicles in 5th edition meta.
Accusing Matt of tailering his army specificaly to win is just stupid, because everyone does in some way.
He is an experienced player and 'Beat Matt' is still a challenge... not a 'give away'.
The first time I played against new Necrons I got overwhelmed by the scarabs, too, and I think the same happened to Cameron... Next time he will be aware of them.
And 40k is NOT all about what you bring.
Seems like alot of poeple don't like the game .. but still play it.
I dont think theres anything wrong with list tailoring, especially in the beat matt bat reps where there is a prize on the line. Fair enough I'd likely get annoyed if my opponent went for the cheesiest, most optimised list possible in a friendly game, but here I dont see a problem with adapting based on what hes likely to bring. I play vanilla marines and if I came up against Cam's list it wouldnt even be worth me playing the game, but if I knew what he had I could make it much more enjoyable.
P.S. I don't think that was a grat game for IG anyways. He had ample opportunity to shoot down the scarabs early. He didn't play the best. You could have given that IG list to someone else and they probably would have won 9 times out of 10.
Anyone can tailor their list to a single army. The trick is building a list that you can play any army with. That's when you find out if your any good at the game. Another good way is to build a non traditional list and play. See if you have good tactics or if you just relying on your models.
I used to play magic the gathering, and metagaing, knowing what players are playing and trying to build decks to beat them, is part o the game. If 70% of the players at a tournament are playing deck A, and 30 % are playing deck B, You try and build a deck that is strong against deck A.
I don't see anything wrong with tailoring your army. It is as if somebody handed you intelligence that a large mechanized Imperial Guard force was heading your way.
My son took a Necron list with no scarabs to a tournament last week and got matched against a mech heavy Guard list. He got wiped off the table. Not a good day.
i don't think its bad, especially when people win or lose in the beat matt batreps, they get money regardless, i just enjoy watching any batreps, one of these days im gonna make the trip down to welland and maybe see myself in one of these vids, imma be famous :P
I tend to tailor my list towards what i'm usually against within my local groups, but i suppose the balancing factor is my armies are made from my favourite units, with no regard for tactics or metagaming at the time of buying and building things.
But just to throw it out there, i win most of my games via daring tactics and taking risks, never because i have the optimum army list. Though many times my opponent has lost horribly due to a poor ramshackle selection of units with little cohesion.
For friendly games list tailoring is good for learning new tactics, but competitive games should be blind to the others units and only know the army title itself
Matt, you are a scrub, nobody likes you. Dave and Joe and the Orc guy are way cooler than you. Cheating like this is only way you keep winning. Fuck you scrub.
thcdreams654 1 week ago
At that point, I feel like "going blind" can steer the game back on course, where you just tell your friend(s), let's just make some crazy "fun" lists in secret and throw them at eachother and see who is standing when the dust clears. It can't be a permanent solution though, because in situations like that it seems like someone always gets completely destroyed.
Xefa01 3 weeks ago
However, if army tailoring isn't regulated to some extent, the game becomes a never ending arms race that leaves a bitter taste in everyone's mouth because it starts to become less about the game and having fun, and more about trumping your friend for no reason other than to say you can..."I don't care if you take A, I'll just take B...well if you take B, then I'll take C" and that's when it becomes stupid and a waste of time...
Xefa01 3 weeks ago
There's a time and place for tailoring, "going blind", and "all-comers". Obviously all-comers lists (or as close as you can get) are the only way to go if you're serious about tournaments, but I find that the game can get boring if you play the same all-comers armies together all the time. So tailoring makes it challenging and adds dimension to an otherwise stale and unsurprising game...
Xefa01 3 weeks ago
this is just me, but I think games would be more interesting if you only know the army your playing, not knowing if it is mechanized or not makes it more challenging
TheGuyWhoGoesMEH 4 weeks ago
Ahhh, its ok Matt. Look, with wargaming to some it's about just winning and beating the other to a pulp, I honestly think that it is for fun, creativity and to have a good challenge. If you think the former and its all just bitching and winning, get the templates out of your ass and play like the rest of us.
Wolvenkrad 4 weeks ago
I HAVE THOSE SPEAKERS!!!
rexasure 4 weeks ago
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why do the warriors have 4+ protocols isnt it 5+ ???
PIURBMXER 4 weeks ago
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PIURBMXER 4 weeks ago
I like how Matt and the other people at miniwargaming always seem to be so excited about the games and stuff. It shows that they made the perfect career choice, especially when they also have time to make these videos to talk about whatevers on their mind after the games. Too bad I live in a different country, so I will never see the miniwargaming-store :E I would take your store over any other hobbystore any day! Thanks for all the videos and keep up the good work!
aarpupaarpu 4 weeks ago
I tailor my list to the ideal I have for my army- my space marine army is supposed to despise chaos above all, so I take a lot of plasmas and meltas, my Eldar are a Swordwind force, so they have a bit of everything, and my Dark Eldar are in the same boat.
AGrumpyPanda 4 weeks ago
surely if you play against the same set of people you'r going to list tailor sub-consciously anyway, its something thats gonna happen, just makes the game a bit more challenging as you'd have to rely more heavily on tactics and dice rolls to win
dannyrobb1711 4 weeks ago
i believe that its unkown v unkown is good it makes your skill and ability so much greater if you win
blaines100 4 weeks ago
matt i would love to see you use an army list with alot of deathmarks because i use them and some tactics in game would be much appreciated/
zMirrororriMz 4 weeks ago
@zMirrororriMz Sniper armies aren't quite as good as most people think.
AGrumpyPanda 4 weeks ago
@AGrumpyPanda does not change me request .
zMirrororriMz 4 weeks ago
@zMirrororriMz Fair enough, just saying that if he does in a BMBR it's definitely going to be a 'Beat Matt' situation.
AGrumpyPanda 4 weeks ago
@AGrumpyPanda Also fair enough. Also ive seen them been used quite effectively. Perhaps not a whole ARMY ! but say 3 squads ? Also i just think they look cool and he has not seemed to use them a whole ton in his videos.
zMirrororriMz 3 weeks ago
@zMirrororriMz I agree absolutely, snipers OWN when used correctly. I run a ten-man Ranger squad upgraded to Pathfinders, with a Farseer with guide and fortune nearby. Re-rolling snipers with AP 1 on a 5+ to hit, and a 2+ cover save with re-rolls? Yes please!
AGrumpyPanda 3 weeks ago
@AGrumpyPanda sounds affective indeed :D ! and ya see thats what im saying is everytime ive seen him bring in the deathmarks they all DIE right away and never cause any damage and to me this is disapointing because they are not a weak unit when used right .
zMirrororriMz 3 weeks ago
i like your vids on nids
Pasty1010 4 weeks ago
i suggest you watch people play for a little bit and just start small if you do git in the game you might want to git black reach it is good if you plan to git 1 of thos armies but if you dont like thous armies it would be a wast of your money. mat also has starter ideas and help to learn the rules How to Play Warhammer 40k Episode 1 Part 1
Pasty1010 4 weeks ago
Someone! Please help! i'm a noob to the new miniature game and i was wondering- do i need to get the rulebook AND the codex to my chapter? or does the rulebook already contain every chapters codex? Do i need both? Help!!!
SourTunaMilk 4 weeks ago
@SourTunaMilk the rulebook does not have the codex's but you may not want to buy one at this point, perhasps borrow a friends or one from a library....
SS3EvonyLordNewtonS 4 weeks ago
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@SourTunaMilk i suggest you watch people play for a little bit and just start small if you do git in the game you might want to git black reach it is good if you plan to git 1 of thos armies but if you dont like thous armies it would be a wast of your money. mat also has starter ideas and help to learn the rules How to Play Warhammer 40k Episode 1 Part 1
Pasty1010 4 weeks ago
I'm new to 40k I appreciate your vids.
SirJabsAlot 4 weeks ago
Happy new year? Sorry Matt your a tad bit late
InfectedNomad 4 weeks ago
If you're playing a mech list and you don't kill the scarabs you're done. They will tear you to pieces. Also he was playing against necrons where every gun can glance a vehicle, stun locking is the shit.
dumah81280 4 weeks ago
@dumah81280 Not every gun- there's this funny thing called Tesla
AGrumpyPanda 4 weeks ago
I've been playing 40k going on 3 years now. When I first started playing I went into a lot of games blind and I still do in tourments. As far as tailoring a list to beat your oppent that nows how you play and what you bring...I would have to say that it's ok. I for one like your batraps they have helped me become a better tyraind player and a better space marine player. No game will be perfect but as long as you have fun. And in the end thats what matters.
troutfishingable 4 weeks ago
heres what I will say, I think if you learn what people like to take and you play against those people quite often then I dont see any problem with tailoring ur list to play against his. That being said I also think that you should try to go more so for an overall playable list simply because if you only play certain people then when u play someone else with the same army type (SM, CSM, etc) then you almost hurt urself because u dont know where u need to focus fire for some units.
cwoyce 4 weeks ago
A true general/commander/overlord/warboss/etc will bring the proper weapons to a fight. What's the expression? "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight?"
My friends and I have an unwritten agreement: we tell each other our basic list, but then we both trailer our lists to counter the other. This usually ends up for fun and unpredictable games. Half of decent strategy is the meta-game.
CookieMonster1869 4 weeks ago
I would just like to see you or anyone for that matter get multiple barrage weapons right. Please look on page 32 of the rule book.
Linsong123 4 weeks ago
I'm just saying what I think Don't get me wrong if the people he plays with are ok with that that's up to them and all the best to them. But for myself I think it takes the what if factor out of the game and there's no surprises.
armorkinger 4 weeks ago
Again I may be attacked for this belief but I feel that it is alright to ask what army they are bringing (Such as Orks or Imperial Guard) but asking what type of playstyle is a bit much. I mean if you find that opponents are catching onto your playstyle then change it up. Changing it up can cause you to run into armies you weren't designed for but at this point it gives you a chance to learn the intricacies of your army and make you take chances that you wouldn't take normally.
Just my 2 teef.
Cdscottie 4 weeks ago
I have been wargaming since 2000 and frankly I am surprised at all the negative comments on list tailoring. Every wargame I have played list tailoring was part of the game. I have done it and have lost and had it done to me and have won. Lists aren't everything, the way you play takes a lot into account as well as the dice rolls. Don't let the nay sayers get you down! Your batreps are amazing, keep up the great work!
AFBubbleChaser 4 weeks ago
The fun thing about list-tailoring is that it goes both ways... So then enter, meta-game!
I really don't see the problem. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Trizzek 4 weeks ago
Won't a S6+ blast weapon instant-death 2 bases per wound due to the Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates rule and the ID rule stacking? It'd be the S6+ instant death per wound, then double wounds due to the vulnerable to blast/templates rule ('if the unit is not a vehicle, then each unsaved wound is doubled to two wounds' - p76 MRB).
So if the LRE wounded 3 scarabs with its main gun, 6 BASES would die (due to T3 and the AP2 of the Main Gun ignoring the save). So I think he wiped that unit of scarabs.
tornadomaximus 4 weeks ago 2
You should be able to know what army your opponent is bringing but not what type of that army. For example you should know that it is imperial guard but the information should end there. You should not know if it is mechanized or not (this implies you need to make an adaptable list).
Xextorn 4 weeks ago
Oh stop whinnying babies. So what if it is list tailoring. It is a challenge were they win prizes
funstuff167 4 weeks ago
So true what this guy below says
armorkinger 4 weeks ago
Wow..you're trying to justify list tailoring. You should already have your list done before you even know who you're playing. To know what army they are bringing is unfair and no matter how you try to justify it, it's list tailoring. If you know you're going up against xenos, you know you don't have to worry about to many 3+ saves. List tailoring is never okay and don't try to say that it is in any sense...this is silly..
chaoticflanagan 4 weeks ago
@chaoticflanagan Under most circumstances yes. But when they know that Matt is using Necrons, AND have seen videos of him using his army configurations before? To go in blind against that is already trying to win a race with 1 leg.
ceaser341 4 weeks ago
Matt I really don't like the way you ask what there having in there army. I think its unfair on your opponent and takes the fun out or the game finding out what they have ON THE DAY. I really hope this changes.
armorkinger 4 weeks ago
You should tailor your list because the beat mat batrep is a challenge and so it should be hard to win.
makooma 1 month ago
No it was fair, dont listen to the nay sayers
MrVlandus 1 month ago
Matt,
I didn't have any doubt in my mind that you were being a cheese monkey. In fact I wish more players were as fun to play against as you (not that I've had the pleasure, but I've seen enough batt-reps to easily tell you're a fun guy).
Besides, coming from a purely business standpoint, it would be in your interest to lose more then win.
Either way, I think you're top shelf Matt, keep up the awesome vids.
valegorn 1 month ago
that car commercial before this video with Jay Leno was funny
whitetyger00 1 month ago
Even with Necrons, the advantage of having a fair number of Ghost Arks means you can broadside those guardsman and open fire, so i think mis-matched armies are better.
RobotsGreatWar2 1 month ago
Two mis-matched armies makes the game more interesting. You almost estimate what your opponent is likely to use. e.g. For eldar, if i'm playing heavy armoured infantry e.g. Space Marines i'll put howling banshees in, or if I'm going against lightly armoured infantry i'll switch banshees out and put in striking scorpions instead. If two mis-matched armies come up against each other, you have to think more about what your going to do in order to adapt to your enemy.
RobotsGreatWar2 1 month ago
I don't understand how people can say all this when any challenger can tailor his list to the two armies u have unlike you where all u knew was that it was mechanized guard. Any one that follows ur videos know basically what you'd be able to field against there's tailoring their list to the options you have. Maybe if u had like 4+ armies to choose from to where it was more of a surprise then asking for what the challenger might be bringing would be a lil unfair.
Toxsihk86 1 month ago
sorry Matt were always gonna root for the challenger :)
TheAntman2006 1 month ago
have u ever lost?
xxTheCromwellxx 1 month ago
@xxTheCromwellxx He has. Although I can't recall exactly when. I think he loost quite recently playing his space marines. And he lost with his necrons a few times too.
demanvanhetstokbrood 1 month ago
Your are fine. I screamed at the screan when he did shoot those scarabs swarm. You addressed the same issue I saw in the battle report.
pocketmaster100 1 month ago
Great response to the comments you received. And great to learn from. As someone building a tyranid army I'm now a little more terrified of my buddy's IG army...
BlueCometGamer 1 month ago
@BlueCometGamer And since you're giving money I feel you're allowed to tailor, and even if he'd only said "Imperial Guard" you'd still know there'd be lots of mecha to shred.
Look forward to the next vid!
BlueCometGamer 1 month ago
I think list tailoring should happen so that the games are interesting. If you've ever played a game were the armies are miss matched you know how bad it can be. One sided games are no fun to watch or to play.
fobmon19 1 month ago
In all seriousness. Matt gives out money to people that beat him, and he doesn't get any instant gratification for winning (yes he gets to make a video), so i think it is fairly fair that he can tailor his list.
Techmarine20 1 month ago
I AM THE LAW!
Techmarine20 1 month ago
I'd say that you really didn't talor your list seeing as the fact that 95% of the list people field now are all tanks. If anything making a all anti tank list is the smart thing to do now!
theblessing8386 1 month ago
I know that when I make a tournament list its always made as an all comers list because you could end up facing anyone. But in a pre-determined match I don't think I could bring myself to make a list not suitable to face my opponent. That just leads to 1 sided games when you have a balanced army against an all mech list and you don't have enough Anti Tank to deal with it. I am sorry but mech is too over used and too powerful. Thankfully its time is coming to an end.
Meckler89 1 month ago
I thought everything was fine to begin with and the fact that you had to explain yourself was stupid. I saw the same mistakes as they happened and everything just came down to your scarabs. Everything else just kinda helped. And as far as "Tailoring" goes. If your opponent knows what army you are bringing and you know what they are bringing then why would you not to some degree make a suitable list?
Meckler89 1 month ago
hey man nothing at all wrong with tailoring your list, it happens in real life warfare so nothing wrong with using it in a war game, people whining about a tailored list are just mech spammers or inexperienced players... as long as it is mutually agreed and mutually understood its all good...
shadowynne 1 month ago
Hi guys can someone please tell me who is a good apocalypse army to collect, currently I am collect necrons and I don't want them in apocalypse. Plz reply, thankyou!!!!!
SMOOVEMONK 1 month ago
@SMOOVEMONK In my opinion, necrons are amazing in apocalypse. But other that that, i would go with guard, or orks. they are fun :)
drunkonmilk87 1 month ago
your doing good dont listen to any of the ney sayers, also maybe if you just use a army that you would at a tourney everytime they would shut up
PuppyMarie 1 month ago
rear armor 10? i though Leman Russ Executioners had rear 11?
Orcdude772 1 month ago
my friend plays guard so now i can beat up on him for abusing a rule thanx to this type of video!
Thanx @minwargaming!!
asplass96 1 month ago
I think your right... even if i dont know what you are taking about even if iam a warhammer 40k fan. (I lock to 1:30 then i got bord.)
Siffran57 1 month ago
I have the same speakers as you!
TheRollerhockeypro 1 month ago
I think that your use of scarabs was very educational. I know now to target them if I have a heavy armor list. Thanks for the Batrep
blitzme99 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1) Matt would have had trouble if the scarabs were taken out in turn one 2) REMATCH! it's the best way to sort this out..
Guardsian 1 month ago
It pains me that you think that because something is instakilling your swarms that suddenly they are immune to the primary weakness of swarms, blasts. That 1 plasma cannon should have dealt a lot more damage than it did. I know you don't think you are wrong, but I cannot see the logic in ignoring 1 rule because another one is also in effect at the same time.
In regards to tailoring, I think tailoring is fine as what you said is true, but asking beyond the army they are bringing (ie BA) is wrong
nexttoradio 1 month ago
His Penal Legion army was sweet.
acey45 1 month ago
Nice reflection on the battle,more is learned in analyzing the reasons for a defeat than reasons for victory.As for tailoring lists,i play 2nd edit...who wouldnt load heavy bolters with hellfire when facing tyrannids,or lose flamers in place of power weapons when facing necrons?Some degree of tweaking is necessary and makes common sense.Matt the shock attack gun is the best anti armour weapon in the 40k(2nd edit) universe,ignores los,ignores armour etc.Keep the battreps coming,nice work!
MrBuddydan 1 month ago
i think if he gives you some idea about his list, you should give him some idea of yours
MrRapidPotato 1 month ago
I personally think you should make a list and stick to it. Sure you can switch things up here and there if you find your list isn't working the way you want but I don't change my list to suit the army I'm facing. I just bring the noise and hope for the best.
MoreDakka101 1 month ago
@MoreDakka101 Then you're alittle bad of a WH40K player or any kind of RTS/Table top player.
If you was facing a friend who you KNEW always went a certain composition, you would tailor your army to counter that, and they would likely tailor their list to counter the main composition you try and use.
red244 1 month ago
@red244 No, I'm just someone who can make an army that defeats all comers.
That makes me a superior player.
It's like when you make a tournament deck for Magic the Gathering. Your deck has to be able to defeat anything it faces (short of a few side bar cards you can swap). Same goes for table top. If I could bring every miniature I ever had to a tourney and pick and chose which I could use in each game, it would be easy.
I like a challenge ;)
MoreDakka101 1 month ago
@MoreDakka101 The point I made was he would cater his army to counter yours, and you try to cater yours to beat his.
If it's a tournament I don't believe they allow you to change your army between matches, atleast not the entire army list. I've played unfair games and held my own.
red244 1 month ago
@red244 yeah and that's fine to do in fun games and such. I tend to prefer to go with the tourney style. Do I win every game? Not at all (I need more battlewagons) but I think it takes more skill to make an army that can fight anyone than one tailored for a specific game.
MoreDakka101 1 month ago
@MoreDakka101 In that case it was,
1,500pts necrons (previous ed.), 1,000pts of Space marines and a armoured devision of Imperial guard vs. about 25,000 pts of space marines. The staff tried to balance it by offering us a Titian of choice. We refused and managed to kill off half their army before losing.
Hate it when GW Staff dont make the rules of the battle clear before hand otherwise would of brought more of a army.
red244 1 month ago
@red244 I hope you've learned your lesson.
Whenever anyone offers you a Titan... you take it! :D
Good job though. You were clearly overrun by Marines and managed to do a fair bit of damage. Something to be proud of for sure :)
MoreDakka101 1 month ago
@MoreDakka101 Lol Titans are cool but the only ones I like look wise are the Ork's Stompa (but Orks look pretty cool anyway) and the Volcano Cannon variant of the Baneblade.
red244 1 month ago
List tailoring is fine as long as both players has the same level of knowledge about eachothers lists beforehand. Personally I dont like either me nor my opponent knowing anything before at the table. (even with the occationally bad matchups)
Irtehdar 1 month ago
Are people complaining that Matts opponents don't know what Matt is bringing? Watch the damned videos! It is either (shocker!) Necrons, or (shocker #2) Tyranids! More so the first. The opponents probably have a better chance to list tailor then Matt.
IGfanatic 1 month ago
Canoptek Scarabs are nightmarish units. They won me my last game against Tyranids by tarpitting the centre of his army, flaying the armour off a Carnifex and racking up an ungodly number of kills. They are HUGELY powerful, and any Mech player that lets them get into combat might as well declare 'gg' and walk away from the table.
JasanQuinn 1 month ago
of course you didnt tailor. You could have had Anrakyr, you could have had as many as 24 more scarabs. You could have done a lot more to crush his army knowing he was Mech.
That said, i still think that you misplayed the blast on scarabs by only killing 3 bases instead of 6.
baval5 1 month ago
I have to disagree with your last point. It is possible to build a list capable of taking on any army, though you cannot depend on your unit choices alone to win a game. It comes down to use and the tactics applied against each opponent.
Picard128 1 month ago
I think that all-comers lists are best but if it's mutual that both sides have some idea what the other guy has then that can be interesting too. It's more of a challenge to face a "bad matchup" and can force you to think about new tactics.
korona3103 1 month ago
there wasnt anything unfair or somthing like this,but even if there been -
life isnt supposed to be "fair" or "fair" for everybody or always "fair", since any game is kinda parallel to the real life, it isnt supposed to be "fair" as well.
Darkmoreplague 1 month ago
I agree with you that if the armies aren't matched well it's no fun. I have played less than 10 games and my first game all I had was AoBR Space Marines and I faced my buddies Orks of equal points that he bought instead of getting a preset. He ran me over, just completely owned me. It sucked hard. So tailoring to an extent is always good. And definitely agree on Hindsight. So many of my games I see flaws in my tactics during Hindsight.
pieman888 1 month ago
To be honest, I don't think that what you did was list tailoring at all - in 5th edition everyone brings anti tank. There's a reason that the meltagun is the most popular special weapon these days. Scarabs are your anti tank. In an all comers list, you'd have lots of them too, since every army except Tyranids and sometimes Orks relies heavily on transports and vehicles in 5th edition meta.
TheNewCommissar 1 month ago
Accusing Matt of tailering his army specificaly to win is just stupid, because everyone does in some way.
He is an experienced player and 'Beat Matt' is still a challenge... not a 'give away'.
The first time I played against new Necrons I got overwhelmed by the scarabs, too, and I think the same happened to Cameron... Next time he will be aware of them.
And 40k is NOT all about what you bring.
Seems like alot of poeple don't like the game .. but still play it.
Bethelnir 1 month ago
For the craftworld!Filthy humans and soulless robots!
darthd95 1 month ago
I dont think theres anything wrong with list tailoring, especially in the beat matt bat reps where there is a prize on the line. Fair enough I'd likely get annoyed if my opponent went for the cheesiest, most optimised list possible in a friendly game, but here I dont see a problem with adapting based on what hes likely to bring. I play vanilla marines and if I came up against Cam's list it wouldnt even be worth me playing the game, but if I knew what he had I could make it much more enjoyable.
sambrown3 1 month ago
P.S. I don't think that was a grat game for IG anyways. He had ample opportunity to shoot down the scarabs early. He didn't play the best. You could have given that IG list to someone else and they probably would have won 9 times out of 10.
scoobysnack907 1 month ago
Meh. Now i would like to watch that game, but Matt forgot the link and i am too lazy to search through beatMatt batreps for something from last year
BusterXXXL 1 month ago
Anyone can tailor their list to a single army. The trick is building a list that you can play any army with. That's when you find out if your any good at the game. Another good way is to build a non traditional list and play. See if you have good tactics or if you just relying on your models.
scoobysnack907 1 month ago
bah... 40k has always been about I got lucky with a list.
seanmccarty 1 month ago
You've shown that the tactics of this shoddy game is based on what you take, not how you play.
gerbilbotherer 1 month ago
why am i watching this with no sound
dino264onps3 1 month ago
@dino264onps3 because you´re in love with matt and want his manparts inside you? O.o
I hope that´s not the case but you never know!
gilowadept 1 month ago
I used to play magic the gathering, and metagaing, knowing what players are playing and trying to build decks to beat them, is part o the game. If 70% of the players at a tournament are playing deck A, and 30 % are playing deck B, You try and build a deck that is strong against deck A.
Nanook128 1 month ago
nothing wrong with tailoring in my opinion, if you know the enemy has tanks and your normal list has no anti tank of course you take some anti tank
kenners1993 1 month ago
I think that list talior is just how war is, every generl has to adapt in order to win.
WarGamersof40K 1 month ago
Bringing Scarabs is list tailoring? Reaallllly......
I didn't know bringing Anti-Tank is list tailoring when it's pretty much required of a good list.
Because everyone and their mothers haven't been running heavy mech?
Arcane199 1 month ago 6
Comment removed
WarGamersof40K 1 month ago
@WarGamersof40K not with a lord plus resurrection orb
Ibanhoof 1 month ago
I don't see anything wrong with tailoring your army. It is as if somebody handed you intelligence that a large mechanized Imperial Guard force was heading your way.
MacAttack001 1 month ago 2
My son took a Necron list with no scarabs to a tournament last week and got matched against a mech heavy Guard list. He got wiped off the table. Not a good day.
ENLIL2000 1 month ago
no I think its perfectly fair that he changes his army to fight his opponent. Everyone knows what he has so its easy to tailor to matt's list.
dt3055 1 month ago
List tailoring is fine if both players do it.
EryxUK 1 month ago
i don't think its bad, especially when people win or lose in the beat matt batreps, they get money regardless, i just enjoy watching any batreps, one of these days im gonna make the trip down to welland and maybe see myself in one of these vids, imma be famous :P
Carnage109 1 month ago
I tend to tailor my list towards what i'm usually against within my local groups, but i suppose the balancing factor is my armies are made from my favourite units, with no regard for tactics or metagaming at the time of buying and building things.
But just to throw it out there, i win most of my games via daring tactics and taking risks, never because i have the optimum army list. Though many times my opponent has lost horribly due to a poor ramshackle selection of units with little cohesion.
Musabre 1 month ago
For friendly games list tailoring is good for learning new tactics, but competitive games should be blind to the others units and only know the army title itself
LordDrakeMalice 1 month ago
All below are filthy xeno lovers!
FOR THE EMPEROR!
RustyTheTroll 1 month ago 51
@RustyTheTroll YAY, FEEELTHY XENOO LUVE FUR MEEEEEEEEEEEEE, GLORIOUS KAY-OSH ASH BLWESSHED USH!
IAMDRMERVRENBARRON 1 month ago
@IAMDRMERVRENBARRON
Good for you, elegan/tg/entlemen.
RustyTheTroll 1 month ago
@RustyTheTroll mmmm love the xeno, tasty tasty xenos....
shadowynne 1 month ago
Every time someone says that I am incorrect I look them straight in the eye and say... "I AM- THE LAW!!!"
TheDemeted 1 month ago 27
@TheDemeted LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
Chayraz2 1 month ago
NECRONS!!!!!!
BLASTO5614 1 month ago
necrons rock !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
doomthedemonhedgehog 1 month ago
Khorne Flakes!
Rekksar 1 month ago