Tom Woods - Where Do Rights Come From? Pt. 2

[reggielittle25]

Your video is a favorite on Estonia

[torankrai]

wasn't natural rights during plato, cicero?

[woodsmailbox1]

1900: slavery, racism, misogyny ... 2010: speciesism, anthropocentrism, naturalistic fallacy ... it's a long journey I guess, but at least we're on the right track :)

[woodsmailbox1]

the title should have been "where do NATURAL rights come from?", like this is the only moral philosophy on earth :) and I say this as a libertarian -- we both hate propaganda, Ms. Woods, don't take this the wrong way :)

[kenp3L]

Rational people can collectively determine what rights we should all enjoy. But the concept of Natural Rights (i.e., rights that are given to us by God) is error.

[BadgeringTheWitness1]

@kenp3L The concept of Natural Rights doesn't have to be a religious concept.

[bobsacamano1]

Morality isn't exclusive to humans. Altruism is found in many species. The distinguished Dr. Woods clearly hasn't studied much biology. Everything else is wonderful.  This is a merely a minor point that bothers me only as a biology professional.

[DRNevans]

But is that really morality? If we're going to claim animals are capable of altruism in a sense humans would recognize as "moral," then do we likewise condemn animals for "immorality" when they kill each other?  I don't think this kind of language is appropriate.

[bobsacamano1]

The same pressures that select for morality in humans select for morality in animals as well.

[DRNevans]

Also, don't examples of animal "altruism" involve (1) expectations of reciprocity, or (2) considerations of spreading one's genes? Aren't human beings capable of more disinterested moral behavior?

[DRNevans]

Finally: can animals engage in moral reflection?

[Visfen]

Altruism is found nowhere, except in species with collective controls. Even the piss ants that kill themselves to save the hide due it out their own drive.

If we want to see true altruism we need only watch to the Borg.

[ROPdude]

You're making me laugh. Morality = rationality? You watch animals and think they act with a conscience just like human beings do?

I know you want to feel smart, but please: don't be absurd.

[bobsacamano1]

What makes humans different than animals? Why do humans deserve a special place in biology?

[MooseOfReason]

@bobsacamano1 Wolves have morals?

[bobsacamano1]

Wolves work together. Wolves make personal sacrifices for the betterment of the pack. Wolves show preference for their kin.

[MooseOfReason]

@bobsacamano1 They move in a pack. Have you seen them eat? They don't seem like they're for dividing the food up equally.

Could you give an example of a "personal sacrifice" a wolf makes?

[bobsacamano1]

They don't divide it up evenly. That doesn't make any sense. But a wolf will protect its kin, who are likely to share genes with itself. A wolf will risk its life to defend the lives of its relatives and wolves share food with their relatives. Although an individual wolf will give at least half of the food it has available to itself. Not even division. In biology, whatever behavior is best for the genes is manifest.

[MooseOfReason]

@bobsacamano1, You said, "Wolves work together."

[bobsacamano1]

they hunt in packs

[MooseOfReason]

They don't have a grocery store. I'm still convinced it's not altruism, and that the wolves are hungry.

[bobsacamano1]

0It is important to analyze biology at the gene level, rather than the organism level. It makes sense for a gene to encourage behavior that benefits other organisms that also hold that gene, i.e. pack members, especially siblings, parents, and children. This pressure selects for behavior that we could consider moral. Such as sharing, or personal sacrifice. It's not done for the sake of acting moral, but done for the benefit of the genes.

[BadgeringTheWitness1]

@bobsacamano1 And wolves are pretty much worthless judging by the only standard of value that we have access to--Human scales of value. They have no high level of cognition and provide scant value to humans, therefore they are not valuable to humans.

[MooseOfReason]

I think I'm learning more from Tom Woods than I did in school.

[waldentree]

First degree in history, always a good indicator. History is an essential foundation block for good understanding.

[jackooboy1]

This guy rocks :)

[kihjin]

this is not the same as part 1

[TravisBarker182]

this is the same as part 1 :(