I like both Katherine and Anne very much, they're my favorite wives of Henry VIII. I think that Anne was the more interesting of the two, but Katherine was the better person. They were both intelligent, strong-willed, generous, and courageous. Henry was a fool to mistreat and discard them.
Anne Boleyn had what she deserved (not the decapitation part), payback is a bitch..she went through everything that she have caused to Katherine of Aragon..pain, betrayal and everything else. Katherine was thrown away like a sac of garbage and with Anne's finger on it....we have to be careful with what we do to others.
Great video!!! i'ts fantastic.. i like it!! the similarities and differences are very correct !!! great!! great!! but The video finish here??.. o to be continued in other video.. because it seems that there is another video of Elizabteh And Mary.
i have to admit, there is a lot of similarities between these strong female historical figures, maybe that's why the utterly loathed each other, as its popular belief that ppl with similar personalities clash
@ladyvignette You know, this is such a muddy area when talking about that time. What was a Catholic back then? Anne was a reformer but so was Thomas More. The difference between them was one of degree. And there were reformers far more extreme than Anne. Supposedly she took Communion before she died and believed in transubstantiation. I'd say she was Catholic in many ways but not a papist.
@laurenlfc48 Ever hear of the 'end justifies the means'...well it's loosely the point here--because of her and her REFORMED beliefs, the Church of England was created...thank YOU! Now leave me alone...
@laurenlfc48 ok..ha ha...Good God I can't think of a dimwit watching the tudors...it makes it lose its appeal...stop acting like a 12 year old-ha ha ha (I'm being ironic w/the ha ha;s...just in case you feel the need to reply concerning that too)
I think Catherine Howard had it worse. She was executed as a teenager before she could accomplish anything. Catherine and Anne accomplished a lot and Anne left a lasting legacy in Elizabeth. Catherine Howard did and accomplished nothing.
The moral of the story is Henry paid the highest price.He died a miserable death of self loathing and depression 11 years after Anne and Katherine's death's.He through away true love for a son that never had a chance at being a king.Edward was 9 at the time of his fathers death.he reigned 6 years.After his death 1553,Mary reigned for 5 years before dying of cancer.A total of 11 years.Elizabeth became queen in 1558, reigned 45 years.The age her father was when his had her mother beheaded.Ironic..
To establish the loathing between them. Anne wore yellow to "celebrate" Katharine's death, and legend has it the candles atop Katharine's tomb "flickered" when Anne was killed. (Other legends say, they burst into flame, since she had been vindicated.)
@ladyvignette Henry also wore yellow; for all we know it was his idea. I hate that the show only had her wear yellow, as if Henry was all respectful. Henry threw a party and was overjoyed when Katherine died. There are some who theorize that Anne was actually rather scared when Katherine died because now she was the only thing standing between Henry and swinging bachelorhood.
Another similarity - both Anne and Katherine were highly educated for women of their time. Anne though wasn't a Protestant. Technically she was a Catholic with reformist sympathies but she would never have called herself Protestant. The term wasn't even really in use when she was alive. Martin Luther actually wanted Katherine to stay queen, not Anne.
My use of "Protestant" is for the sake of people who would have no idea what a "Reformist" was, but from modern prejudices know the division between Protestants and Catholics. =)
Absolutely correct, Ladyvignette...Anne was an "evangelical," but forced into the anti-Papal camp because of the situation. Rome seemed adamantly to refuse to "reform" its abuses in the 1520's-30's. She would probably reject modern day Protestanism or Calvinism. Although she would naturally reject Papal authority, Anne died believing in most of the tenants of the Roman Catholic Church, including transubstantiation, as evidenced by her dramatic "last communion" before many witnesses.
absolutely wonderful...i think you did a great job of summarizing the simalarities and differences of the 2 queens' fates
I think at the end of her life, Anne Boleyn was very much pondering on how eager and ready she was to replace Katherine and realizing that she was no more fortunate than Katherine for being younger, prettier, or more energetic.
Poor Katherine and Mary. Even Anne B fans have 2 admit she was a cow. Wishing all Spainards were at the bottom of the sea. Threatning both Katharine and Mary. Making Mary be a maid 2 Elizabeth etc etc etc.....
Well both Catherine and Anne stood up to him about his affairs at first, but then they took different routes, Catherine just ignored them and Anne tried to control who was his mistress. Catherine's was more successful.
How can you say Catherine was more successful? Anne, when she knew of his affair with Symore, she was pissed and told him off, a little, but catherine just stood by and let everthing take a tole!! on her? so please explain that to me? not beging rude or anything?
Because doing that Henry didn't resent Catherine for it, maye if Anne hadn't had such a temper on her she could have survived longer. Catherine, also had q ite a temper, but she knew when to just let things go, for her sake and her daughter's
0:07 - Everytime I watch this, I wonder if the candles on Katherine's tomb really flickered. Wow! That is so interesting if they really did. I'm just curious, in what book can you read that?
Wow! That's amazing to know. I suppose one doesn't really know if that actually happened, but it makes for a great story. I'll go out on a limb here, and say it happened...lol
Yeah very interesting story, not the only strange thing to appen with Catherine's death an eyewitness said the funeral effigy looked curiously lifelike!!
Lifelike? Now, you've literally spooked me..lol Goodness Gracious. You know, I've been reading these online stories about Katherine's ghost supposedly haunting certain places. I have to say I believe that....and I read that Anne Boleyn's ghost is carrying her own head. Wow, I know that sounds far-fetched, but anything can happen...lol
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Look, I'm not saying Catherine did not do the RIGHT thing. Just that it was the more submissive thing to do, so she might as well have accepted Henry's offer and saved Mary's position! Now anyway, its 4:00 am, and I must say goodnight, sweet dreams ect. talk soon?
I think that's debatable since I haven't found anything on Henry offering to let Mary keep her position as heir if Catherine accepted his terms; and I think that's pretty strange seeing as the whole reason he discarded Catherine in the first place was to get a legitimate *son* out of Anne. At any rate, that sounds like baiting and Henry probably would have broken that promise the minute Anne had a boy. Catherine probably knew that, so she chose to refuse. Mary would have probably refused too.
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Well you made be right, I saw it on one of Starkey's things...might have been six wives. Yeah I'm not sure I would trust Henry's good intentions either, look at what happen to Jane and Aske. Lol...okay, no further debate, I like both Anne and Catherine, and yeah there are lots of valid reasons to like them, I just think Anne was the less submissive.
As an expert on Katharine of Aragon -- yes, Henry did offer to leave Mary in the succession (behind all of Anne's heirs) if Katharine abdicated into a nunnery. However, as he had broken every promise ever made to Katharine in the past, she had no reason to believe him and as it violated her conscience, refused. So you are both right. Henry did offer to deal, and Katharine was too smart to accept his terms. =)
Anyway, no need or use for further discussion or debating; I prefer Catherine, I don't think she was submissive at all in refusing to accept the taking of her and her daughters rights, and I believe she did everything she was fully capable of short of attempting civil war on her adoptive country, which I feel was wise. Like I said, not submissive, just not *ruthless*. You prefer Anne and your reasons are as valid as mine for Catherine.
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Also, things have to be balanced, when monarchs do much worse things and are hailed, they've probably done a lot of good as well. Which particular monarch were you refering to? Anyway I really need to go but I enjoy exchaning opinions with you can we carry on another time?
Catherine *did* fight for everything that rightfully for her and Mary. Just because she did not do it ruthlessly or cause any bloodshed doesn't mean she was submissive. In my opinion she acted like the Queen she was, she fought for her rights but refused to allow any war or death because of it. And how was Anne less submissive?. She allowed a betrothal to be broken, accepted Henrys advances, her arrest and execution rather then fight. *Shrugs* I believe they both did as much as they could.
Catherine did not refuse war and bloodshed. She did have the chance to legitimise Mary, she didn't take that chance. The thing about Anne accepting Henry's advances, well, so did Catherine, they were married. How was Anne supposed to fight her execution. Anne wasn't going to make the speech she made on her execution, but did it to save Elizabeth. Catherine would not sacrifice her pride for Mary. Anne did it for Elizabeth. Also, what was Anne supposed to do? Karati kick her way out of the tower?
Yes, Catherine did refuse to bring civil war to England. And even if she had accepted Henrys terms without a peep, Mary still would have been bastardized and disinherited in favor of Annes children. Make up your mind. Either Catherine should have just kowtowed to Henrys whims or she should have brought the Hell of civil war to England. Like I said, I believe both her and Anne did what they could for themselves and their daughters.
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No she didn't!!! Look, whether Catherine had the power to wage war is debateable, she we can't rule either way. It hasn't even been ascertained that she had military backing from Spain, and her plight never sparked a rebellion, so who knows...I am not saying that Catherine didn't have the power to start a war, it can be argued either way. So its not concrete that she refused the civil war option. Secondly, it was a fact that Henry offered to ensure Mary's legitimacy if Catherine stepped down.
I heard the very day of Catherines funeral Henry had a near fatal accident, wich caused Anne such distress she had a miscarriage. *Raises eyebrow* And I don't think Catherine "learned to submit" either. She refused to aknowledge the taking of her rights until her death.
Although I sympathize with Annes ending fate, I have no love for her and think she's somewhat overrated. To my mind, Anne was an opportunist and usurper while Catherine was Henrys true wife and the *rightful* Queen.
My view of "submitting" would be for Catherine to have accepted the taking of hers and Marys rights, and Anne Boleyns coup, without a peep, but she did not, no she continued to refuse to aknowledge and accept any of it. As for why she did not retaliate more ruthlessly when she could have, isn't that easy to figure out? It would have put England through the hell of a civil war, something she would not do, not even for her and Marys titles. This made the people love and respect her more.
Okay...it's not obvious, I respect Catherine, I really do, and I do think that she was very courageous. However, I still think she was submissive. All she did was retire to the country and bleet feebly that she was Queen. Secondly, if she cared so much about Mary's title, she could have saved when she had the chance whilst Henry was still being leniant, when I say leniant, I mean leniant relative to his usual evilness. It is also debateable whether Catherine had the ability to
Then you could say the same of Anne; All Anne did was accept her arrest and execution while bleating feebly that she was innocent. And I seriously doubt Henry, no matter how leniant, would allow Mary to have kept her status once he discarded her mother for Anne and the children they would have.
omg so sorry marked your comment as spam...hope it won't do anything!!! Anne did not have Catherine's means, Catherine had her life and liberty, powerful Allies, and more public support than Anne. But generally her liberty...Henry did in fact offer Catherine to like, renounce her throne, or go to a convent or something, without calling Mary's legitimacy into question. Catherine declined. In retrospect, Henry may or may not have been as good as his word, I dunno, but the offer was there!
(continued) wage a war against Henry. She may not have been able to muster the hell of civil war even if she wanted to. If she could, I don't think we could possibly assume why, but either way it was the non-submissive thing to do.
Catherine's popularity was short lived. The 'Anne faction' were shrewd enough to rendezvous a couple of friends in high places and by the consortship of Kathryn Parr the 'Catherine faction' failed in their attempts to remove her. Even amongst the people her
I don't know for sure if Catherine could have waged civil war against Henry, but seeing as she had the support of Rome, Spain and a good part of England, it *might* have been possible. However, no doubt, she did not want to cause any bloodshed over the matter, and she still loved and forgave Henry, which I think was very big of her. For my part, I disagree that she was submissive due to the fact that she continued to refuse to aknowledge and accept Henrys terms. She just wasn't *ruthless*.
Okay...I see where your coming from. It was certainly big of her to forgive Henry!! But then again...he was all she had in England. I guess I just find it dissapointing that she didn't fight harder, it was bad for her, but also for her daughter, she allowed Mary to be greatly wronged and I know you may disagree, but Mary wasn't a bit of a monster, not that suprising considering what was done to her...Catherine could have stopped that or fought for her crown or both. That would have made a truly
"Fought harder"? You mean like bring civil war on England, backed by Spain and Rome?. In my opinion, it was wise that she *didn't*. Whom do you think would be blamed and hated the most for the bloodshed?.
not necessarily, but if it came to that...maybe. Unrelevant as it is, I reckon Henry would definetly been blamed! Surely even you must agree that he was an utter b****d? Sorry for the rude word but the definetly man deserves it.
And no, she did not "allow" Mary to be wronged. Henry was the one with the absolute power over Marys fate no matter how much Catherine protested. And I disagree that Mary was a monster. However, I do agree that Henry and Anne were the ones mostly responsible for Marys clinging to her Catholic faith for dear life and hating the Protestant one enough to bring back the herasy laws.
Catherine had it within her power to save Mary's sation, she did not. That is the end of that. Henry, Anne and Catherine were reponsible for Mary's faith. Mary had a strong sense of self, knowing that Spain was Catholic and was 'behind her', and Catherine too, arguably contributed to her clinging to catholism, it was really the only way she felt close to them. Secondly, I think nothing can justify the sheer numbers Mary persecuted just because of their faith.
I disagree Catherine had the power to save Marys station. Mary would still have been basterdized and disinherited in favor of Henry and Annes children. And of course nothing justifies the deaths of 300, but rulers have done much worse things and still been hailed. There was just as much persecution against Catholics. I also believe Mary would have been more tolorant towards the Protestant faith if its teachings hadn't destroyed her and her mothers lives or led to persecution of Catholics.
I agree. Naturally Mary would have been more tolerant towards the Protestant faith if it hadn't destroyed her life. But the number of people she killed, and the way she killed them, was barborous. Furthermore, she killed for revenge e.g Cranmer. No doubt she had cause to be twisted, but she was twisted anyway and her reign brought no benefits. When you say there was just as much persecution against catholics...when do you mean?
Mary had 300 burnt at the stake. However, this pales in comparison to the number of deaths under other monarchs, hoever succesful their reigns. She was actually known to be very kind and forgiving, even to her enemys. Anyway, yes there were benefits to her reign. And Protestants were attacking Catholicsm and Catholics *long* before the Marian persecutions.
(continued) influence was short lived. The people in the North revered Jane S, and they had been Catherine's main fans and her influence generally faded rather quickly, this would contrast with someone like Anne, less popular than Catherine, whoose influence was felt hundreds of years after her head had been cropped!
*Shrugs* To me, it doesn't matter whose "influence" is felt more. It matters how each is remembered; Anne is remembered as "the other woman", an unpopular opportunistic usurper who played a part in ruining both Catherine and Marys lives and eventually wound up with her head cut off. Catherine is remembered as "the wronged wife", the first and truest wife and queen.
There are so many people who would refute that, and you know it! Obviously you have a very polarised view of the thing, that is kind of how you remember them. I shall put up my side of the story tommorow, coz I need to go now.
yes its very strange, but true ive read it in quite a few books! spooky! also at the day r anne boleyns day on some annaversaries people have reported seeing lots of hares, the animal representing a witch, which was what anne was thought to be
the terrible tudors from the horrible histories series. Or it might have been the even more terrible tudors. Either way they only have about a hundred pages, with about a size 18 font and a lot of funny illustrations so it wouldnt take you long to flip through and check which one. The book series are very good for interesting and funny facts about hisory, as are dead famous and the knowledge, those were the ones i started to read when i really got interested in history at about age 10,
i sometimes look through them again too because they are very good good, i also have the audio cds of some of them, very funny to listen to if i cant get to sleep!
Two great, great women. Both had particularly non-English charms. Katherine was Spanish, while Anne was actually more French in appearance and character than English.
Also, the historical Katherine, the Spanish one, had fair hair and blue-grey eyes. Anne who was English was the one with dark hair and eyes.
One advantage for Anne: more famous actresses (Portman, Bujold, Redgrave, etc.) have played her! There are lots of Anne movies, no Katherine movies.
Great video!. I'm a fan of Katherine, but I have no love for Anne. In fact, if Anne had been divorced and exiled instead of executed I'd say she'd gotten a good taste of her own medecine. You're right though. The story doesn't end there!. Heh!. ;)
Katherine and Anne are the best and most interesting of Henrys wives. Anne is my favorite, but Katherine is a queen among queens and I think even Anne knew that!
I'm dying to know what song this is! It fits perfectly. Great vid by the way. Perfect showcase to compare and contrast to incredible women. So what song is this?
Wonderful! But Henry forbade Protestants in his country, that did not come about until his son Edward. Plus, Katherine was Queen regent, regional governor, top adviser, and strategic commander & general. Plus the people adored her.
I used the term "Protestant" because unfortunately, many people would not know what the term "Reformist" meant. And I am aware of Katharine's status -- she is my favorite queen, and I love that she was so involved in the politics of the time. =)
Wow that was brill - it juts shows they had differences and similaritirs, but to be honest no matter how similar they i are i will always prefer Katherine.
Quick question.By the way,I mean no disrespect in anyway:
Do you think Anne Boleyn getting beheaded was KARMA?She interfered in a marriage,mistreated Catherine and Mary etc...etc....She played a huge part in the cruelty of these two Queens,and for what?For "Bloody Henry".She saw how he treated his wife,and daughter.Why would he treat her any better?OPINIONS?
Anne never interfened in Catherine and Henry's marriage- she just refused in becoming his mistress and because henry was so desperate to have a son: he replaced poor Catherine
I adore this, a very beautiful and accurate depiction of two very strong and powerful women. Respectfully done and it brings a striking contrast. A perfect explanation of why I adore them both.
Thank you! I had not really realized how alike they were either until working on this video, but they did have a tremendous amount in common. If they had not been fighting over Henry, perhaps they might have even been friends.
I would just like to say, that I love all of your videos, ladyvignette (especially this one!). Your editing is stunning!... everything is so precise, so perfectly timed and flows together flawlessly - its all so professional. And all of your video ideas are so unique and distinctly your own....At least once a week I keep coming back to your account to see if you've posted anything new!
I'm incredibly flattered! Thank you! I don't know if I can keep up a weekly creativity, but I'll certainly do my best. I'm uploading another as I speak. =D
This was awesome. I never really noticed how similar they were. Isn't it funny how everytinme Henry replaced a wife he always chose one who was the exact opposite of her predecessor? Great video! :)
I do find it ironic that he seemed to go in patterns. He chose Jane because she was like Katharine, and then Katherine Howard because she reminded him of Anne. He couldn't make up his mind! =D
I like both Katherine and Anne very much, they're my favorite wives of Henry VIII. I think that Anne was the more interesting of the two, but Katherine was the better person. They were both intelligent, strong-willed, generous, and courageous. Henry was a fool to mistreat and discard them.
bloodncorsets 4 months ago
Anne Boleyn had what she deserved (not the decapitation part), payback is a bitch..she went through everything that she have caused to Katherine of Aragon..pain, betrayal and everything else. Katherine was thrown away like a sac of garbage and with Anne's finger on it....we have to be careful with what we do to others.
LaVoceDiDonna 4 months ago
great video!!!i really want to do a same one for anne boleyn and katherine howard
Kait931 5 months ago
Ahhh I love this video so much!:)
HannichkaK 7 months ago
i love this so much! i love The Tudors! thanks a lot for uploading it! good job! God bless!!
maricelle92772 10 months ago
Great video!!! i'ts fantastic.. i like it!! the similarities and differences are very correct !!! great!! great!! but The video finish here??.. o to be continued in other video.. because it seems that there is another video of Elizabteh And Mary.
tudorglee 1 year ago
i have to admit, there is a lot of similarities between these strong female historical figures, maybe that's why the utterly loathed each other, as its popular belief that ppl with similar personalities clash
lorribabes1 1 year ago
Anne Boleyn was born catholic but converted to the Lutheran faith while she was in the French court. However she still upheld the catholic services.
24Abstract 1 year ago
Anne was Catholic not Protestant.
laurenlfc48 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48: If you're talking about Anne Boleyn, no, she was not a Catholic. She was a Reformist, which was a precursor to Protestantism.
ladyvignette 1 year ago 7
@ladyvignette You know, this is such a muddy area when talking about that time. What was a Catholic back then? Anne was a reformer but so was Thomas More. The difference between them was one of degree. And there were reformers far more extreme than Anne. Supposedly she took Communion before she died and believed in transubstantiation. I'd say she was Catholic in many ways but not a papist.
Himaryous 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 No, Anne was Protestant!
EmmaRose473 1 year ago
@EmmaRose473 She WAS a Catholic and both her and her family were very strict ctholics before they reformed
laurenlfc48 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 Ever hear of the 'end justifies the means'...well it's loosely the point here--because of her and her REFORMED beliefs, the Church of England was created...thank YOU! Now leave me alone...
EmmaRose473 1 year ago
@EmmaRose473 So as I said she was a Catholic :s
Leave you alone? You commented me first haha!
Seriously I think you need to calm down!
Haha!
laurenlfc48 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 ok..ha ha...Good God I can't think of a dimwit watching the tudors...it makes it lose its appeal...stop acting like a 12 year old-ha ha ha (I'm being ironic w/the ha ha;s...just in case you feel the need to reply concerning that too)
EmmaRose473 1 year ago
@EmmaRose473 haha okay i'm really not going to reply to you again beause your not even talking about the video anymore.
You arguing online which is quite sad so I won't be replying to you again becaus it's quite pathetic of you.
And posting on my wall wow does it really bother you that much, wow you must have alot of tme on your hands.
Have a nice life :)
and cheer up :)
laurenlfc48 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 anne was protestant, thats why henry broke with the sea of rome and founded the church of england
stacey8805 1 year ago
@stacey8805 Anne became a protestant.
She was born a Catholic and her and her family were actually devout ones untill she reformed. The protestant church did not exist when Anne was born.
laurenlfc48 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 anne was protistant and was the reason henry broke with rome and created the church of englang
stacey8805 1 year ago
@laurenlfc48 anne was protestant look it up, kathrine was catholic
stacey8805 1 year ago
Liked the video. Just want to point out, Henry wore yellow after Catherine died too and for all we know it could have been his idea.
Himaryous 1 year ago
Henry's only wife was Katharine of Aragon. Get over it. Anne was a slut and Elizabeth a bastard.
CorieFaulkner 1 year ago
@CorieFaulkner So...if Aragon was his only wife, wouldn't that make Edward VI a bastard too, and Jane Seymour and Catherine Parr big ol' sluts?
Himaryous 1 year ago
@Himaryous Since Katherine was dead by the time Jane and Catherine came along no. The marriage was legit as Henry was a widow.
lloydistosexy 1 year ago
Great video! Both were amazing women!
nataliedormerfan 1 year ago
Out of all of Henry's wive I think Katharine and Anne suffered the worst fate.
TudorRose85 2 years ago 2
I think Catherine Howard had it worse. She was executed as a teenager before she could accomplish anything. Catherine and Anne accomplished a lot and Anne left a lasting legacy in Elizabeth. Catherine Howard did and accomplished nothing.
evaperonfan 2 years ago 3
The moral of the story is Henry paid the highest price.He died a miserable death of self loathing and depression 11 years after Anne and Katherine's death's.He through away true love for a son that never had a chance at being a king.Edward was 9 at the time of his fathers death.he reigned 6 years.After his death 1553,Mary reigned for 5 years before dying of cancer.A total of 11 years.Elizabeth became queen in 1558, reigned 45 years.The age her father was when his had her mother beheaded.Ironic..
Meriale46 2 years ago 2
Wonderful video, one of my very favourites of all the Tudors videos!!
I love how you say that Catherine reacted and Anne retaliated- SPOT ON! :)
wirramirra26 2 years ago 2
This video should have been given to the producers of "The Tudors" - I am sure they would be thrilled!! This is fantastic!!!!
(And "Isabella's Daughter" is very good too!)
19jacinta88 2 years ago
Very well done! i applaud you!
rockpunk92 2 years ago
Can you do a video for Catherine Parr?
GoddessofHyrule 2 years ago
What song is that it is beautifull, and I would like to get a copy
stacey8805 2 years ago
"Prelude" by Immediate Music.
ladyvignette 2 years ago
Oh come ON!! The end was a total cliffhanger!!! "To be continued..."??
Umm...why did you point out that Anne wore yellow on the day of Katharine's funeral?
19jacinta88 2 years ago
To establish the loathing between them. Anne wore yellow to "celebrate" Katharine's death, and legend has it the candles atop Katharine's tomb "flickered" when Anne was killed. (Other legends say, they burst into flame, since she had been vindicated.)
ladyvignette 2 years ago 4
@ladyvignette And it was the colour of mourning in Spain so it was a double insult. Amazing video btw.
Aislinnify 1 year ago
@ladyvignette Henry also wore yellow; for all we know it was his idea. I hate that the show only had her wear yellow, as if Henry was all respectful. Henry threw a party and was overjoyed when Katherine died. There are some who theorize that Anne was actually rather scared when Katherine died because now she was the only thing standing between Henry and swinging bachelorhood.
Himaryous 1 year ago
That...was...AWESOME!
charismaticace 2 years ago
Another similarity - both Anne and Katherine were highly educated for women of their time. Anne though wasn't a Protestant. Technically she was a Catholic with reformist sympathies but she would never have called herself Protestant. The term wasn't even really in use when she was alive. Martin Luther actually wanted Katherine to stay queen, not Anne.
astrea79 2 years ago 5
My use of "Protestant" is for the sake of people who would have no idea what a "Reformist" was, but from modern prejudices know the division between Protestants and Catholics. =)
ladyvignette 2 years ago
Absolutely correct, Ladyvignette...Anne was an "evangelical," but forced into the anti-Papal camp because of the situation. Rome seemed adamantly to refuse to "reform" its abuses in the 1520's-30's. She would probably reject modern day Protestanism or Calvinism. Although she would naturally reject Papal authority, Anne died believing in most of the tenants of the Roman Catholic Church, including transubstantiation, as evidenced by her dramatic "last communion" before many witnesses.
guramile 2 years ago 3
Great Video very amazing, you did a wonderful job!!
Hattaru 2 years ago
absolutely wonderful...i think you did a great job of summarizing the simalarities and differences of the 2 queens' fates
I think at the end of her life, Anne Boleyn was very much pondering on how eager and ready she was to replace Katherine and realizing that she was no more fortunate than Katherine for being younger, prettier, or more energetic.
HonoringDelaram2009 2 years ago
Poor Katherine and Mary. Even Anne B fans have 2 admit she was a cow. Wishing all Spainards were at the bottom of the sea. Threatning both Katharine and Mary. Making Mary be a maid 2 Elizabeth etc etc etc.....
TudorsGossipGirlfan 2 years ago 12
@TudorsGossipGirlfan I've heard Anne called many things, but I must admit "cow" is a new one. That's an unusual nickname for a skinny woman.
Himaryous 1 year ago
You didn´t mentioned that Katherine was noble lady and Anne was pretty but to manipulative (at least in Tudors).
svoba4af 2 years ago 2
Anne all the way! I'd have stood up to Henry too!
AnaliaHyrule 2 years ago 2
Well both Catherine and Anne stood up to him about his affairs at first, but then they took different routes, Catherine just ignored them and Anne tried to control who was his mistress. Catherine's was more successful.
katharinethequene 2 years ago
How can you say Catherine was more successful? Anne, when she knew of his affair with Symore, she was pissed and told him off, a little, but catherine just stood by and let everthing take a tole!! on her? so please explain that to me? not beging rude or anything?
Hattaru 2 years ago 3
Because doing that Henry didn't resent Catherine for it, maye if Anne hadn't had such a temper on her she could have survived longer. Catherine, also had q ite a temper, but she knew when to just let things go, for her sake and her daughter's
katharinethequene 2 years ago
I agree with you thank you for explaining, but you got to give Anne credit, she stood up to him!!
Hattaru 2 years ago 5
So did Catherine.
katharinethequene 2 years ago
love it !!
melodieable 2 years ago
Awesome comparison...brilliantly done!
Capri62996 2 years ago 2
simply brilliant
boleyn1536 2 years ago 3
very good video, I am very impressed
fayirishgirl 2 years ago
Comment removed
lifeisgreat89 3 years ago
What's the song?<3
katharinethequene 3 years ago
It's called Prelude, by Immediate Music.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
thanks very much :-)
katharinethequene 3 years ago
0:07 - Everytime I watch this, I wonder if the candles on Katherine's tomb really flickered. Wow! That is so interesting if they really did. I'm just curious, in what book can you read that?
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
I've also read that, I read it in Antoina Farser's Six Wives of Henry VIII, and Terry Deary's The Terrible Tudors(when I was like eight!)
katharinethequene 3 years ago
Wow! That's amazing to know. I suppose one doesn't really know if that actually happened, but it makes for a great story. I'll go out on a limb here, and say it happened...lol
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
Yeah very interesting story, not the only strange thing to appen with Catherine's death an eyewitness said the funeral effigy looked curiously lifelike!!
katharinethequene 3 years ago
Lifelike? Now, you've literally spooked me..lol Goodness Gracious. You know, I've been reading these online stories about Katherine's ghost supposedly haunting certain places. I have to say I believe that....and I read that Anne Boleyn's ghost is carrying her own head. Wow, I know that sounds far-fetched, but anything can happen...lol
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
Why would Katharine want to haunt anyone? Henry and Anne are dead!
AnaliaHyrule 3 years ago
Why would she want to haunt anyone? I don't really know. Why do the deceased haunt people and places period? They just do...lol
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
But so did 0:59
pinkgal888 3 years ago
1:00 made me really sad:(
pinkgal888 3 years ago
I think both women are fantastic:D Things might have worked out better had Anne consented to let Mary come to court and to treat Catherine better.
pinkgal888 3 years ago
I think Mary would have made a great queen, if the church hadnt changed.
britneystars2 3 years ago 4
fantastic job:)
militiiii 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Look, I'm not saying Catherine did not do the RIGHT thing. Just that it was the more submissive thing to do, so she might as well have accepted Henry's offer and saved Mary's position! Now anyway, its 4:00 am, and I must say goodnight, sweet dreams ect. talk soon?
lookinglass123 3 years ago
I think that's debatable since I haven't found anything on Henry offering to let Mary keep her position as heir if Catherine accepted his terms; and I think that's pretty strange seeing as the whole reason he discarded Catherine in the first place was to get a legitimate *son* out of Anne. At any rate, that sounds like baiting and Henry probably would have broken that promise the minute Anne had a boy. Catherine probably knew that, so she chose to refuse. Mary would have probably refused too.
Karenjade 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well you made be right, I saw it on one of Starkey's things...might have been six wives. Yeah I'm not sure I would trust Henry's good intentions either, look at what happen to Jane and Aske. Lol...okay, no further debate, I like both Anne and Catherine, and yeah there are lots of valid reasons to like them, I just think Anne was the less submissive.
lookinglass123 3 years ago
As an expert on Katharine of Aragon -- yes, Henry did offer to leave Mary in the succession (behind all of Anne's heirs) if Katharine abdicated into a nunnery. However, as he had broken every promise ever made to Katharine in the past, she had no reason to believe him and as it violated her conscience, refused. So you are both right. Henry did offer to deal, and Katharine was too smart to accept his terms. =)
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Anyway, no need or use for further discussion or debating; I prefer Catherine, I don't think she was submissive at all in refusing to accept the taking of her and her daughters rights, and I believe she did everything she was fully capable of short of attempting civil war on her adoptive country, which I feel was wise. Like I said, not submissive, just not *ruthless*. You prefer Anne and your reasons are as valid as mine for Catherine.
Karenjade 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Also, things have to be balanced, when monarchs do much worse things and are hailed, they've probably done a lot of good as well. Which particular monarch were you refering to? Anyway I really need to go but I enjoy exchaning opinions with you can we carry on another time?
lookinglass123 3 years ago
(continued) good bit of History! But she didn't...fair point she wasn't exactly submissive...but compared to Anne she was.
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Catherine *did* fight for everything that rightfully for her and Mary. Just because she did not do it ruthlessly or cause any bloodshed doesn't mean she was submissive. In my opinion she acted like the Queen she was, she fought for her rights but refused to allow any war or death because of it. And how was Anne less submissive?. She allowed a betrothal to be broken, accepted Henrys advances, her arrest and execution rather then fight. *Shrugs* I believe they both did as much as they could.
Karenjade 3 years ago 5
Catherine did not refuse war and bloodshed. She did have the chance to legitimise Mary, she didn't take that chance. The thing about Anne accepting Henry's advances, well, so did Catherine, they were married. How was Anne supposed to fight her execution. Anne wasn't going to make the speech she made on her execution, but did it to save Elizabeth. Catherine would not sacrifice her pride for Mary. Anne did it for Elizabeth. Also, what was Anne supposed to do? Karati kick her way out of the tower?
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Yes, Catherine did refuse to bring civil war to England. And even if she had accepted Henrys terms without a peep, Mary still would have been bastardized and disinherited in favor of Annes children. Make up your mind. Either Catherine should have just kowtowed to Henrys whims or she should have brought the Hell of civil war to England. Like I said, I believe both her and Anne did what they could for themselves and their daughters.
Karenjade 3 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No she didn't!!! Look, whether Catherine had the power to wage war is debateable, she we can't rule either way. It hasn't even been ascertained that she had military backing from Spain, and her plight never sparked a rebellion, so who knows...I am not saying that Catherine didn't have the power to start a war, it can be argued either way. So its not concrete that she refused the civil war option. Secondly, it was a fact that Henry offered to ensure Mary's legitimacy if Catherine stepped down.
lookinglass123 3 years ago
i hate anne boleyn! long live queen katherine!!!!!
lilmizzspac 3 years ago 5
There both dead now...
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Loved the video event my mom loved it she gave it 4 crowns lol!
TudorRose85 3 years ago
love it!
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
Comment removed
7Diyem 3 years ago 3
Thanks.
I'm not a big fan of Anne Boleyn either. =P
Long live Katharine of Aragon!
ladyvignette 3 years ago
me too!
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
nationality shouldn't have to do with why you love someone :P
AnaliaHyrule 2 years ago 2
0:07 - I didn't know the candles atop Katherine's tomb flickered when Anne was about to be executed.That's quite interesting.
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
There are two legends, actually: in one, the candles flickered, and in the other, the candles burst into flame. =)
ladyvignette 3 years ago
I heard the very day of Catherines funeral Henry had a near fatal accident, wich caused Anne such distress she had a miscarriage. *Raises eyebrow* And I don't think Catherine "learned to submit" either. She refused to aknowledge the taking of her rights until her death.
Although I sympathize with Annes ending fate, I have no love for her and think she's somewhat overrated. To my mind, Anne was an opportunist and usurper while Catherine was Henrys true wife and the *rightful* Queen.
Karenjade 3 years ago 3
Catherine did submit! She didn't accept his terms, but she didn't really retaliate did she? As she could have done...
lookinglass123 3 years ago
My view of "submitting" would be for Catherine to have accepted the taking of hers and Marys rights, and Anne Boleyns coup, without a peep, but she did not, no she continued to refuse to aknowledge and accept any of it. As for why she did not retaliate more ruthlessly when she could have, isn't that easy to figure out? It would have put England through the hell of a civil war, something she would not do, not even for her and Marys titles. This made the people love and respect her more.
Karenjade 3 years ago
Okay...it's not obvious, I respect Catherine, I really do, and I do think that she was very courageous. However, I still think she was submissive. All she did was retire to the country and bleet feebly that she was Queen. Secondly, if she cared so much about Mary's title, she could have saved when she had the chance whilst Henry was still being leniant, when I say leniant, I mean leniant relative to his usual evilness. It is also debateable whether Catherine had the ability to
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Then you could say the same of Anne; All Anne did was accept her arrest and execution while bleating feebly that she was innocent. And I seriously doubt Henry, no matter how leniant, would allow Mary to have kept her status once he discarded her mother for Anne and the children they would have.
Karenjade 3 years ago 2
omg so sorry marked your comment as spam...hope it won't do anything!!! Anne did not have Catherine's means, Catherine had her life and liberty, powerful Allies, and more public support than Anne. But generally her liberty...Henry did in fact offer Catherine to like, renounce her throne, or go to a convent or something, without calling Mary's legitimacy into question. Catherine declined. In retrospect, Henry may or may not have been as good as his word, I dunno, but the offer was there!
lookinglass123 3 years ago
(continued) wage a war against Henry. She may not have been able to muster the hell of civil war even if she wanted to. If she could, I don't think we could possibly assume why, but either way it was the non-submissive thing to do.
Catherine's popularity was short lived. The 'Anne faction' were shrewd enough to rendezvous a couple of friends in high places and by the consortship of Kathryn Parr the 'Catherine faction' failed in their attempts to remove her. Even amongst the people her
lookinglass123 3 years ago
I don't know for sure if Catherine could have waged civil war against Henry, but seeing as she had the support of Rome, Spain and a good part of England, it *might* have been possible. However, no doubt, she did not want to cause any bloodshed over the matter, and she still loved and forgave Henry, which I think was very big of her. For my part, I disagree that she was submissive due to the fact that she continued to refuse to aknowledge and accept Henrys terms. She just wasn't *ruthless*.
Karenjade 3 years ago
Okay...I see where your coming from. It was certainly big of her to forgive Henry!! But then again...he was all she had in England. I guess I just find it dissapointing that she didn't fight harder, it was bad for her, but also for her daughter, she allowed Mary to be greatly wronged and I know you may disagree, but Mary wasn't a bit of a monster, not that suprising considering what was done to her...Catherine could have stopped that or fought for her crown or both. That would have made a truly
lookinglass123 3 years ago
"Fought harder"? You mean like bring civil war on England, backed by Spain and Rome?. In my opinion, it was wise that she *didn't*. Whom do you think would be blamed and hated the most for the bloodshed?.
Karenjade 3 years ago 3
not necessarily, but if it came to that...maybe. Unrelevant as it is, I reckon Henry would definetly been blamed! Surely even you must agree that he was an utter b****d? Sorry for the rude word but the definetly man deserves it.
lookinglass123 3 years ago
And no, she did not "allow" Mary to be wronged. Henry was the one with the absolute power over Marys fate no matter how much Catherine protested. And I disagree that Mary was a monster. However, I do agree that Henry and Anne were the ones mostly responsible for Marys clinging to her Catholic faith for dear life and hating the Protestant one enough to bring back the herasy laws.
Karenjade 3 years ago 4
Catherine had it within her power to save Mary's sation, she did not. That is the end of that. Henry, Anne and Catherine were reponsible for Mary's faith. Mary had a strong sense of self, knowing that Spain was Catholic and was 'behind her', and Catherine too, arguably contributed to her clinging to catholism, it was really the only way she felt close to them. Secondly, I think nothing can justify the sheer numbers Mary persecuted just because of their faith.
lookinglass123 3 years ago 3
I mean station, not a sation, sorry !
lookinglass123 3 years ago
I disagree Catherine had the power to save Marys station. Mary would still have been basterdized and disinherited in favor of Henry and Annes children. And of course nothing justifies the deaths of 300, but rulers have done much worse things and still been hailed. There was just as much persecution against Catholics. I also believe Mary would have been more tolorant towards the Protestant faith if its teachings hadn't destroyed her and her mothers lives or led to persecution of Catholics.
Karenjade 3 years ago 2
I agree. Naturally Mary would have been more tolerant towards the Protestant faith if it hadn't destroyed her life. But the number of people she killed, and the way she killed them, was barborous. Furthermore, she killed for revenge e.g Cranmer. No doubt she had cause to be twisted, but she was twisted anyway and her reign brought no benefits. When you say there was just as much persecution against catholics...when do you mean?
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Mary had 300 burnt at the stake. However, this pales in comparison to the number of deaths under other monarchs, hoever succesful their reigns. She was actually known to be very kind and forgiving, even to her enemys. Anyway, yes there were benefits to her reign. And Protestants were attacking Catholicsm and Catholics *long* before the Marian persecutions.
Karenjade 3 years ago 2
(continued) influence was short lived. The people in the North revered Jane S, and they had been Catherine's main fans and her influence generally faded rather quickly, this would contrast with someone like Anne, less popular than Catherine, whoose influence was felt hundreds of years after her head had been cropped!
lookinglass123 3 years ago
*Shrugs* To me, it doesn't matter whose "influence" is felt more. It matters how each is remembered; Anne is remembered as "the other woman", an unpopular opportunistic usurper who played a part in ruining both Catherine and Marys lives and eventually wound up with her head cut off. Catherine is remembered as "the wronged wife", the first and truest wife and queen.
Karenjade 3 years ago 4
There are so many people who would refute that, and you know it! Obviously you have a very polarised view of the thing, that is kind of how you remember them. I shall put up my side of the story tommorow, coz I need to go now.
lookinglass123 3 years ago
That isn't my entire view (I agree it's to polarised) but that's the main general view among allot of people since the fifteen hundreds.
Karenjade 3 years ago
lol okay I can live with that (almost!) :)
lookinglass123 3 years ago
yes its very strange, but true ive read it in quite a few books! spooky! also at the day r anne boleyns day on some annaversaries people have reported seeing lots of hares, the animal representing a witch, which was what anne was thought to be
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
iamsmoochums - That is quite interesting.
In what books did you read this?
Gabbycrts 3 years ago
the terrible tudors from the horrible histories series. Or it might have been the even more terrible tudors. Either way they only have about a hundred pages, with about a size 18 font and a lot of funny illustrations so it wouldnt take you long to flip through and check which one. The book series are very good for interesting and funny facts about hisory, as are dead famous and the knowledge, those were the ones i started to read when i really got interested in history at about age 10,
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
I love those books :)
lookinglass123 3 years ago
i sometimes look through them again too because they are very good good, i also have the audio cds of some of them, very funny to listen to if i cant get to sleep!
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
"prelude on earth" by globus except this is the instrumental version, idk how ladyvignette got it, but she did an awesome job with it!! =D
lyricsgrl7 3 years ago
"Prelude," by Immediate Music.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
what are these clips from?
Rosie4evr 3 years ago
The Tudors.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Two great, great women. Both had particularly non-English charms. Katherine was Spanish, while Anne was actually more French in appearance and character than English.
Also, the historical Katherine, the Spanish one, had fair hair and blue-grey eyes. Anne who was English was the one with dark hair and eyes.
One advantage for Anne: more famous actresses (Portman, Bujold, Redgrave, etc.) have played her! There are lots of Anne movies, no Katherine movies.
Superb video, Ladyvignette.
Milordvega 3 years ago
Wow i really liked it. I reallly like Catherine she's my favorite queen of all time anne however is my leat favourite
iamsmoochums 3 years ago
Everytime I watch this video I feel like crying...It's absolutly amazing
u r the best video maker here...katharine_Fanatic =D
xxx KatherineOfAragon
BrazilianItalianGirl 3 years ago 3
Great video!. I'm a fan of Katherine, but I have no love for Anne. In fact, if Anne had been divorced and exiled instead of executed I'd say she'd gotten a good taste of her own medecine. You're right though. The story doesn't end there!. Heh!. ;)
Karenjade 3 years ago 3
Absolutely wonderful vid! You tend not to think about all the similarities and differences until they are all put togther.
LarienOronar 3 years ago
A Tudor masterpiece.
InnateNobility 3 years ago
That video was awesome :) loved it
Galindathegood 3 years ago
Graet video!!!!
HistoryGirl2 3 years ago
Katherine and Anne are the best and most interesting of Henrys wives. Anne is my favorite, but Katherine is a queen among queens and I think even Anne knew that!
MissCici55 3 years ago 12
Ditto!
historygirl23 3 years ago
I share ur comment at 90% To me Katherine is my favourite queen but i like Anne too.
BrazilianItalianGirl 3 years ago 2
Katharine and Anne were also the only two of Henry's wives/queens to be crowned.
TudorRose85 3 years ago
I luv how Anne's eyes open to the music in 2:34
MaryAnneBoleyn 3 years ago
Alright... If there's a rank for your fans, I'll certainly be the #1! Fantastic! Five stars, faved and watched a zillion times!
=D
livlivinha 3 years ago
brilliant....
sandra123marar 3 years ago
è veramente un bel video!!!complimenti!!!
31ottobre90 3 years ago
I'm dying to know what song this is! It fits perfectly. Great vid by the way. Perfect showcase to compare and contrast to incredible women. So what song is this?
Jellyroll2 3 years ago
It's called Prelude, by Immediate Music.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Wonderful! But Henry forbade Protestants in his country, that did not come about until his son Edward. Plus, Katherine was Queen regent, regional governor, top adviser, and strategic commander & general. Plus the people adored her.
ClassiJazz 3 years ago
I used the term "Protestant" because unfortunately, many people would not know what the term "Reformist" meant. And I am aware of Katharine's status -- she is my favorite queen, and I love that she was so involved in the politics of the time. =)
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Wow that was brill - it juts shows they had differences and similaritirs, but to be honest no matter how similar they i are i will always prefer Katherine.
lollzpopz22 3 years ago
Me too. =)
ladyvignette 3 years ago
I always prefer Katherine too, and so did the people of that time,and Era.
luvprue1 3 years ago
Anne was catholic too!
princessgurl4eva101 3 years ago
This is such a good video it shows the best in both of them and how similar they were.
MaryAnneBoleyn 3 years ago
Holy cow, this was fantastic!!
BalletGiry 3 years ago 2
Quick question.By the way,I mean no disrespect in anyway:
Do you think Anne Boleyn getting beheaded was KARMA?She interfered in a marriage,mistreated Catherine and Mary etc...etc....She played a huge part in the cruelty of these two Queens,and for what?For "Bloody Henry".She saw how he treated his wife,and daughter.Why would he treat her any better?OPINIONS?
Gabbycrts 3 years ago 4
Anne never interfened in Catherine and Henry's marriage- she just refused in becoming his mistress and because henry was so desperate to have a son: he replaced poor Catherine
princessgurl4eva101 3 years ago 2
I adore this, a very beautiful and accurate depiction of two very strong and powerful women. Respectfully done and it brings a striking contrast. A perfect explanation of why I adore them both.
TemptressAdventure 3 years ago
I love this video!!! What an excellently unique idea:)
JeanGreyPhoenix 3 years ago
wow such a powerful video, really good idea and wonderfuly put together! great job
boleyn1536 3 years ago
i am absolutely blown away! Loved this so much! =D
lyricsgrl7 3 years ago
Hi! I loved it!
justlooking213 3 years ago
Thank you! I had not really realized how alike they were either until working on this video, but they did have a tremendous amount in common. If they had not been fighting over Henry, perhaps they might have even been friends.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
I would just like to say, that I love all of your videos, ladyvignette (especially this one!). Your editing is stunning!... everything is so precise, so perfectly timed and flows together flawlessly - its all so professional. And all of your video ideas are so unique and distinctly your own....At least once a week I keep coming back to your account to see if you've posted anything new!
Gemini12590 3 years ago
I'm incredibly flattered! Thank you! I don't know if I can keep up a weekly creativity, but I'll certainly do my best. I'm uploading another as I speak. =D
ladyvignette 3 years ago
You're welcome! Lol... no pressure, I know how time-consuming these videos are to make. But a beautiful one always seems to brighten my day :).
Gemini12590 3 years ago
It's lovely knowing people enjoy watching them. I love doing them. =)
ladyvignette 3 years ago
I love this. This is awesome.
SpanishDescendent 3 years ago
awsome video!
ABoleynFan1505 3 years ago
This was awesome. I never really noticed how similar they were. Isn't it funny how everytinme Henry replaced a wife he always chose one who was the exact opposite of her predecessor? Great video! :)
historygirl23 3 years ago
I do find it ironic that he seemed to go in patterns. He chose Jane because she was like Katharine, and then Katherine Howard because she reminded him of Anne. He couldn't make up his mind! =D
ladyvignette 3 years ago