EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review

[techiscool1]

are those boards hand soldered?

[TrollingAround]

+tags "hot sucking off" - sorry - couldnt help myself

[thewii552]

I lost the game at about 2:13...

[mistermax2008]

Very nice, but what to do when the ic is fixed with glue. I have many pcb´s where the ics were glued.

The solder melts but the glue damages the pcb

can you help

[NoGoodGopher]

The user's manual in English can be downloaded from the atten.com.cn/Article/IndexDown­.aspx?ChannelId=2&G=3&classId=­29 link.

[masterdidums1]

mine broke within 2 months :(

[DjRaveKing]

@masterdidums1 Mine too , but it isn't Atten , usually read your manual and you will discover if it says S-E or 5-E it is a heating element failure . I didn't take care of my heating element . I could read what my manual said because it's in english ...

[jmdejoanelli]

just bought one of these on eBay for 99 cents lol but 58 bucks postage so its not quite like I robbed them so much. hopefully its the real deal. I also love that t shirt, did u get that custom screened urself or did u actually find it somewhere for sale?

[hisense999]

The optimal temperature for BGA rework is 360-380C also is a some rule to don't heat element if flux is not on it (RMA-223 suggested) especially with BGA, but as today for rework job hot air is quiet useless cuz of ROHS everywhere maybe if someone is special skilled can do job still with preheater + hot air but better is to pick up infrared station for BGA rework and ROHS. Also what is important is a some preheater without it is easy to damage low quality PCB or components.

[gnostie]

Nice thing, will get one.

Can you please do a video with opinions and thoughts on BGA rework?

[StephanieHua]

that t-shirt is so hot lol. learned about it during second year i think

[TheVitis01]

bought this tool and what can i say, it works very fine !!! for about € 60 include shipping and tax an incredibble nice tool. soldering desoldering ... very nice, perfect results, look as prefessional soldered ... amazing

[Technoguy3]

Why would you ever need a soldering iron if this hot air gun can melt solder?

[TheVitis01]

@Technoguy3 THT with hot air is not so funny :o)

[NoGoodGopher]

Very good review, thank you!

[ElectronicsPubVideos]

Thanks dave, just a quick question, are these chips going to withstand this heat?

[Whisper6911]

lol love the shirt :P

[anthonydacko51]

People wanting a 110 Volt version can order the SAIKE 858D+ SMD Hot Air Rework Station Solder 110V 700W.

Look on the USA ebay site.

[anthonydacko51]

Hi Dave,

After watching your preview of the Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review I have orderd one my self off ebay here in the UK looks fantastic.

[joshstube]

"There's no excuse for having a hot air rework station in your lap"

You've convinced me Dave! Just ordered mine . . .

?? A question for Dave or anyone who might know:

Can I replace/ re-tap the transformer to run this from 120volts?

@ 400W I don't see why this needs to be powered by 240 volts??

Any advice on hacking it for 120v?

Thanks!

[EEVblog]

@joshstube Just buy the proper 120V version under a different brand, link in the text.

[joshstube]

@EEVblog Pardon Dave, but do you mean the link in your description to Atten?

I had a look there and other places in search of a 120v unit, when I couldn't find anything comparable I purchased the one from your review.

Do you know of such a 120v model?

[joshstube]

@EEVblog

That would be great if there was a 120v version! I might be able to cancel my order.

(actually they are asking me about buying an adapter . . .

[kordunasNo1]

love your T shirt :)

[First2ner]

So.... did you put jumper on the board yet?

[DuncM0OFL]

Thanks Dave! Good on ya. Having been following your blog for a little while now I've definitely benefited from your words. Now I have the same hot air gun and have been practicing on a scrap motherboard. I'll never look back to the 'bad old days'.

[LePianisteMasque]

I just received mine. I am really happy with it. I was able to remove small smd and big ones with many legs (more than 80 for the bigest i tried). Impresive.

Some months ago I tried the same with a iron, a pump... Without success. I tried with desoldering "wire" and it was ok but quite difficult. With this air gun, it was very easy ! REALLY EASY !

So thank you again for this review Dave. ;-)

[linagee]

I have a hot air rework station with temperature regulated soldering iron that I got for around $150. It works great and makes playing with SMD parts possible, but if I was going to assemble even a dozen boards, I would get a frying pan and some solder paste. (See Ladyada for how she set this up.)

PS. I saved 8 hard drives and recovered my dead RAID 5 array with my hot air rework station. Yay! (Swapping PCB only did not work. Transferring the EEPROM chip was necessary.)

[justincgs]

We luv ya Dave!!!

Great job!!!

Keep'em coming!!!

[ajcrm125]

"... Bob's your uncle" :)

Love it.

[Knaeckebrotsaege]

by the way... what you call silicone in this vid is usually just hot glue on any cheap chinese stuff..

and the broken off stuff on the blower fan were most likely the mounting tabs like on normal computerfans. they just broke them off to make it fit.

[KozmykJ]

@Knaeckebrotsaege But you can't tell by looking at a video. I've come across stuff, securing components, that 'looked' like hot glue only to find that it was rubbery and wouldn't melt, most likely silicone rubber compound.

[Knaeckebrotsaege]

love the shirt ... lol :D

[Wragie]

Not bad just checked it $64.50 delivered!

If we got you a long enough extension could you do the canyon test with it???

[gbowne1]

Yeah.. Those holes don't look good. :(

[stridermt2k]

I would put a bit of tape on those hole ripped in the fan, just to try to keep the airflow good.

[neutron7]

You can get parts for them, i have one (different brand but exactly the same handpiece) and the ebay guy i got it from has spare heater elements and stuff.

[fingerboy18]

Wow that PCB is as bare-bones as it gets for a production item. Nothing wrong with that if the price drops :)

[neo13412]

great review Dave!

[NPP83]

How is it that the hot air at that temp doesnt damage or loosen up the components surrounding the BGA. Isnt hot air imprecise for this application. Just a noob fyi asking a question.

[yanava]

That board you're using looks awfully close to one Altium Designer uses as example for 3d visualization. Any relation?

[EEVblog]

@yanava That's because it is the same board...

[enginerdy]

Pro tip: put something down with a high heat resistance, or something that will indicate before it starts scorching (like heavy poster paper). After I got a brand new ESD workbench, the first thing I did was blister the surface while trying to remove a big SMD linear regulator with hot air. Not a huge deal, but wasn't super happy about it!

[EEVblog]

@enginerdy The ESD mat I'm using is a special one that can survive high temperature and direct soldering iron contact.

[fivefishdiy]

@EEVblog Link please? for your heat resistant ESD mat... Thanks!

[EEVblog]

@fivefishdiy Can't add links here, but google Okay ESD Mat

[EEVblog]

@fivefishdiy Can't add links here, but google Okay ESD Mat

[EEVblog]

@fivefishdiy Can't add links here, but google Okay ESD Mat

[LePianisteMasque]

I ordered a unit on ebay few minutes ago. Thank you for this nice review, Dave.

[Bushougoma]

There is also a product called Chip Quik which is essentially a low melt alloy you add to the existing solder with your iron. It allows the solder to remain molten for seconds after removing the iron. So you can grab the part and remove it.

It's great for non BGA parts and if you don't work with SMD that often and can't justify a tool.

I used it for awhile before I got a hot air gun.

[LinuxGalore]

Dude you got ripped, the Atten 858D's sell for USD$32 (AUD $29.78) each at the on-line wholesalers.

[xjet]

@LinuxGalore Which wholesalers? Cheapest price I saw was (USD 67.50 including shipping)

[LePianisteMasque]

@xjet : Same for me. The cheapest on ebay was 66.99$ = 46,01 € (including shipping to France).

[EEVblog]

@LinuxGalore They have dropped in price on ebay since I bought it over a month ago. I have not seen on one that cheap. What about postage to Auastralia?

[LinuxGalore]

@EEVblog If you are looking to find a cheap price on ebay sorry to pop your bubble but 80% of products on ebay may be cheaper than rrp but not cheaper than a bulk on-line reseller. Just google search the product and ignore the first dozen hits then you will start to see how cheap these things become.

[Artemisgoldfish]

My Hakko HR852 does the same delayed shutoff, and I think the manual says it's for extending the life of the heater or something. The Hakko sounds a lot angrier than the Atten, but it's definitely bigger and more expensive.

[EEVblog]

@Artemisgoldfish Yeah, I can imagine the heater life would be improved if you let it cool down slowly.

[Kankki1]

@EEVblog Wouldn't it cool slower if the fan turned off? ;)

[MEverett98]

Great review Dave. I going to start looking at ebay for a US unit.

[MetalPhreakAU]

One of the advantages of having the fan in the handle as the air source, is that you no longer need a permanently attached air hose. It's a pity Atten didn't fit a removable plug like most of the Kada (et al) units. It's great having a nice clean workbench with the handle stored away somewhere.

Thumbs up for having an IEC socket. My Kada station didn't have one so I fitted one myself.

[LePianisteMasque]

@MetalPhreakAU : I agree. Finding the right power cord will not be a problem at all. The only issue is the "hot air gun". If it breaks soldering a new one to the board should not be a big problem but... good luck to find it ! :-(

I saw another station using the same gun but its one had a connector. If shit happens, it will be the occasion to add a female connector to the 858D+ before buying this new part.

[axel1973w]

FAIL!!! It ran while in the Stand.

[EEVblog]

@axel1973w Ah, it's designed to do that...

[heroineworshipper]

With that voice, the noise of the blower is the least of your worries. We still use a heat gun, after all these years. It nukes the entire board, but was free.

[44209david]

yeah i like this one!

My SMD rework station does have an iorn built into it but is prob about 10Kg ish. bloody heavey when you move it around from home to work. this would be perfect!!

[Wolfcritic64]

The handpiece is enormous and looks like it would be hard to control around a tiny SMD.

[EEVblog]

@Wolfcritic64 It doesn't feel big at all, and is easy to use IMO. YMMV

[sk8hack]

dave, explain möbius resistor please

[jeriellsworth]

I'm not sure I like how the unit can turn on when you pull the hand off the holder. What if you forget to turn the main unit off and the wand falls off the holder while unattended?

[EEVblog]

@jeriellsworth Good point. Same thing with a soldering iron too, but I guess they are usually better supported in the holder.

These things I only tend to leave on when actually using them, which isn't very often. YMMV.

[hoppes9]

Funny that an SMD tool would be built completely with through-hole components.

[leosedf]

Dave, The hot air stations with the remote air pump have a better air flow, this one has just a fan which doesn't make it really good for advanced reworking.

Plus you need a preheater for lead free.

[EEVblog]

@leosedf Sure, if you are doing advanced professional reworking you'd get a proper pre-heater, advanced tips for the exact part you are removing, better airflow etc. But for general everyday use this unit is perfectly capable.

That board in the video is fully lead free, worked just fine.

[leosedf]

@EEVblog True, it's a neat station some friends have it.

If you have a large lead free board with big ground planes you will need a preheater for sure. For small things it's a nice and cheap station, i like it. It's also more "portable" than the bigger stations.

[EEVblog]

@leosedf Yes. As always, it's horses for courses. You trade off some thermal capacity for lower noise, cost, and portability.

[Aeduo]

Should I be worried about the high heat damaging components that need to be taken off but still might be good, or even neighboring components?

[Afrotechmods]

Nice teardown!

[fourier2020]

The holes in the side of the fan are probably a trim operation that cut a little more off than it should have. I'm guessing that the plastic mold had multiple pieces and needed trimming.

[EEVblog]

@fourier2020 Yeah, I something clearly needed trimming off on either side. Maybe mounting supports or something? Cheaper to do that than order a custom version without the extra bits?

[heystarfish100]

@EEVblog Dave, I thought the fan holes were deliberate to help rid the hand piece from excess heat when used in the vertical position to prevent the cord from melting and shorting out. But what do I know?

[LePianisteMasque]

@heystarfish100 : I agree, I think it is the reason why these holes exist...

[fourier2020]

@EEVblog Maybe, but its just as likely that the parts came from a multi cavity mold and the trim operation was messed up. Actually, the Chinese routinely mess up at least 10% of the parts on a Western order on purpose to make sure that the customer reorders to get credit for the defects. Those defects are then resold domestically. Nice trick, eh?

[DrZeibenstein]

@EEVblog Maybe the fan blew too hard and they put holes in it to lower the range?

[lordchavo]

If you search ebay "858D 110V" you get a Saike unit at 95 bucks, but more interesting is "898D 110v" search what give us a Hot Air Gun + Soldering Iron in one for about 122 bucks. I think we have a winner ;)

[EEVblog]

@lordchavo I would get too excited about a cheap soldering iron combo. Tips can be problematic. Much better off getting an $80 Hakko, and more versatile with two separate units.

[lordchavo]

@EEVblog what about a preheater? Is it necessary? at Aliexpress there's a "KADA 853A" that costs about $210.00 USD and it's a preheater + hot air gun. What do you think about what others say that the fan isn't as good as the remote air pump of other stations? I have a classic Hakko 936 and I'm looking for equipment to manufacture prototypes at home. This vblog entry just triggered a full-day research about it ;)

[Bracerjack]

DOesn't doing this destroys the chips ?

[EEVblog]

@Bracerjack The chips are designed to survive a certain temperature for a certain time. So they usually survive.

Really not much different to reflow soldering temps.

[HillOrStream]

Anyone find a 120V model? Wonder what it would take to convert a 220V version...

[lordchavo]

It looks that theres no 110v version (at least at the same price point) :(

[EEVblog]

@lordchavo The Saike 858D+ has a 110V version.

[hhdago]

I already scrolled to the comment box after you popped the first two chips off with a screwdriver(?) but then decided to watch the end first. Tweezers are much better if you plan to use either the component (you can pull them off vertically instead of lifting them from one side) or the board (slip with the screwdriver, scratch through a trace) afterwards.

[CampKohler]

It looks like the A model has an (analog) knob to set the temp as opposed to a (digital) button and display set. Does it have any testing lab markings, .e.g. UL?

[Peteworth]

Aw Dave! You didn't say "don't turn it on, take it apart!"

[QBMan]

Really good device. For that price hell yeah!

[orbiter8]

Just a word of of advice for anyone new to these things... Be careful not to shock the gun/nozzle part of the unit, as the heating element is located inside and it's quite fragile, it will break easily if the nozzle is dropped or knocked about.

[BersekViking]

I'm not sure about the safety of that thing.

It seems to have a 220v heater, and is rated at 700W. That make it use 3A!

Now look how thin the wires are in the tool (when Dave removes the fan), and how poorly the 220v is separated from the low voltage parts!

[DanFrederiksen]

good show Dave. praise the spaghetti monster : )

little surprised that you didn't object to the through hole board. smd would seem cheaper but I guess they just throw manual labor at it where through hole might be easier.

cute expression: Bob's your uncle : )

[Desmaad]

I'd use a blowdrier for heatshrink, myself.

[structLeniwiec]

This no-name product is also sailed as ZHIAOXIN 858D and YiHUA 858D, and it has the same heater as AOYUE and PT products.

[przemek2012]

I bought Atten cheapest oscilloscope. This same day the oscilloscope was dead :(

[hitachi088]

super review, 10/10.

[LauxHawk]

Hey Dave, great review. I have a suggestion. You should definitley note some other components on the board. I have found that to determine the general quality of a product, I look at the electrolytic capacitors. If they are a good brand, you can sort of assume that the other stuff will be good too....

[turbochargedbrick]

Dave - I was looking at one of these but ended up getting a Kada 852d+ as it has a vac pump in the base etc - quick power cord change and it has been pretty good. Want to borrow it?

[Shaunakde]

Dave, Please do one on SMT soldering if you find the time.

PS: Where do you buy your Tshirts>?

[EEVblog]

@Shaunakde You can buy them in my EEVblog Merch store on my site.

[zaprodk]

It looks like the parts that have been ground off on the fan is some mounting ears, they should have covered the holes with some tape imo.

[Ruchira88]

Dave please can you share the ebay link for this product with us? :) I searched ebay but cant find anything for that cheap!

[ssj3gohan456]

Thanks for the review! I have been looking for one of these for a few weeks now and was actually about to buy an Aoyue 968, but for this price it's absolutely unbeatable. Exactly because of the noise I was hesitant to buy the Aoyue. And yeah, the price i paid for the 858D now: €42.34 (that's 57.33 AUD). Excellent value for money.

[kwakkwak123]

Thanks Dave, good vid!

[netcore2k]

Just what I was looking for. Just purchased one using eBay. I look at the Atten site and there models.. they all use a completely different style which makes me think this might not be a genuine Atten product. The 850D model has a very different case. Not that this bothers me, because I've seen it working and the price is that low its still worth buying one. Thanks Dave!

[EEVblog]

@netcore2k Yeah, not sure what the deal is with the model not being on their site, they only have the older Hakko look-alike units. I now note it only seems to be sold in 240V version? Latest PDF catalog on their site appears to be 2009?

[EEVblog]

@netcore2k I just added a link the the main Chinese Atten site which has it when you search, so genuine product, but possibly designed for the Asian market only? The English link takes you to the attenelectronics site which does not list it.

[detectiveinspekta]

I have used a tip before with 4 slots that spread the air only on the pins. Pretty nifty. I'v always been scared though of heating boards up to hot temperatures. How would one know how much it could take.

[EEVblog]

@detectiveinspekta Those attachments are nice, but you need one for every size device you work with. You can also get similar attachments for soldering irons.

[randomgarfield]

@detectiveinspekta a pre-heater is a great idea for serious work. Then the boards ambient temperature is more even and the rework time is much much less because the area of board is almost up to temp with the pre-heater. This reduces the chances of de-laminating the board through excessive heat. Dave doesn't really show it but you shouldn't thermally shock a board by just blasting hot air at a spot. You should swirl it around the area first to heat it all up before focusing onto a part.

[Intosia]

Wow nice piece for that money! Makes me want to get into smd :D

[dazaro3]

Hi

Cool video ,i can buy this on Ebay for £36 that's only

$55 Australian Dollars ! and that's delivered to my door.

What a bargain.

[EEVblog]

@dazaro3 Yeah, as usual it looks like I bought in too early! Had it for a month or so. $55 is crazy cheap.

[Zwank36]

They could of grinded them for acoustics.

[randomgarfield]

Miles quieter that the air-pump in the box one I have. The HUGE metal box vibrates like a bastard and makes a massive noise plus takes up a _lot_ of bench space too. The fatter air-tube cable to the handle is also _really_ annoying. Very nice to hear it running in your video! Next on my shopping list!

[EEVblog]

@randomgarfield Yeah, the big bench units with the pumps are pretty darn loud, really quite annoying in a quiet lab.

[gilgameshismist]

@EEVblog

Jups, got an 850D with such a loud pump, paid double for that, and I can't use it in the evening because my kid sleeps in the next room.

So cheers for this review.

The 858 is now on my shopping list :)

[Dramob]

@randomgarfield I totally agree about the noise and the tube of the pump in the box models. I bought a X-Tronic 8020 Combo Rework/ Soldering Station that is great. That damn air hose does interfere with other things on the bench as the diameter of the tube and length make it a challenge to store in a smaller footprint. Aside from that though, I can't plain about the build quality or the convenience of being able to remove/rework SMD with ease.

[megasmart1337]

nice

:D

[lordchavo]

Whats better? a small reflow oven or a preheater + rework station? they are *almost* the same price at some chinese site, But I dont know which one would be better :(

[megasmart1337]

nice:D