(I think this is going to read as nasty/sarcastic, but I beg your indulgence. Please trust that I don't mean it that way!)
And it's all well & good to say stand outside on a sunny day & hug a tree & say "There must be death in order for there to be LIFE!" But tell that to a mother burying her child, or a person in a hospice, writhing in agony as their body is eaten up by cancer. This is where the idea that samsara is unsatisfactory comes from.
This didn't seem nasty to me, I understand the pain of life, and sometimes it would be preferable NOT to feel. But on some occasions I, and most other people, will get a moment when feeling seems to be the most wonderful thing in the world. The trick is probably awareness of those moments not being permanent, so that we don't expect those happy moments to last forever, and we can take comfort in the painful emotions also not lasting forever, at least not in their intensity.
Hmmmm... I'm not sure that the idea is that "happiness is as negative an emotion as sadness" as you said, or that the goal of Buddhism is to not feel...
The idea is that the things which generally cause these feelings (happiness, sadness) in us in samsara are IMPERMANENT. If you find $20 on the ground (or £20, as it were), you're happy about it, great! But eventually that money & whatever you bought with it will be gone.
yes that's more accurate I think, that all emotions are impermanent and therefore transient states.
As I say in the video, I'm kind of talking about the remnants of things that stuck in my head from my studies, there were more detailed reasons why I couldn't embrace Budhism that came up for me when I was studying it, but I really can't remember it all. What I mention in this video is just an echo of the things that bothered me.
Yeah, I know what you mean... There are times where I'm like "I can't remember WHAT that book said... I just know that when I read it, I disagreed with it" (whatever book)
Some amusing mental proliferation there. The Buddha never said we should believe or follow him blindly...we should explore reality. Feelings don't "go together" as you say...they are distinctly separate mental states. If you learn to observe you will see it. Yes, you are not ready to give up grasping to samsara and it's fleeting joys, but maybe in a future lifetime...as you say ;)
IndigoBlue66, I do think she had the right idea in saying that feelings "go together." This seems consistent with everything I've ever been taught about Buddhism (though my studies are admittedly new & limited).
I think that ties into the idea of interdependence. Aversion and attachment are related, so it seems that pleasure and displeasure are as well.
I have been seriously studying buddhism and was about to declare it my faith. You are a very special person and I am glad I stumbled across this video. I don't want to be numb either. Can you please tell me what faith you follow?
Finzlington, I hope that you will not give up your interest in Buddhism based on one youtube video from someone who admittedly is not an expert on Buddhism, or even a Buddhist. :)
If some of what was said here puzzles you or causes you doubt, I would advise you to seek out the advice of your teacher.
Nirvana is not meant to be understood as a state of emotional numbness, and the goal of Buddhism is NOT to stop feeling sadness at the expense of happiness!
I like you a lot and I am so happy I have found you. You have made so many good points. Contrast is so important to help us know what we really want...to help us realize what would truly make us happy we need to experience what doesn't make us happy. The depth of our pain is conversely the depth of our joy. This is only ENLIGHTENMENT by the Buddhist definition. I find a lot of Truth in Buddhism, this part is not part of that Truth for me. : )
OH! Sorry I thought it was 'cos you liked the perfume! But I'm with you on the Buddha, how come it's always MEN who can renounce their family responsibilities and go to find their enlightenment? If women with families deserted them, no matter how noble or mystic the cause they would still be castigated. Our choice is to be mystic Virgins or holy mothers!
I was using the name samsara before I knew the perfume existed, probably before the perfume DID exist! But before I had an internet name, the only place I used it was as a character name in my writing.
And yeh, I was the only person in college to be indignant about the Budha swanning off to find enlightenment, I asked 'what if his wife suddenly decided that she wanted to do the same thing? What about the child?', the lecturer didn't think that was relevant when enlightenment was at stake. . .
That was fun. Man it's been many years since I delved into any of this. It seems to me that Nirvana is eternal death/life, and like you, I enjoy this ride too much to want to exist/not exist that way. I loved the skipping at the end. It made me smile.
This was sent to me in a pm, thought it would be a good addition to the comments here.
"when i think aobut the life cycles and such and you realize that life and learning goes on and will continue to go on for enternity it changes how you think about things. you see past bad decisions and mistakes and see knowledge forming though experiance good and bad. "
"you could say that the garden grows and produces fruit with or without your desires or actions. I delight in revealing truth and dispise the covering of it and although the garden would grow without me using my wisdom to help, i have not lost my love of life and truth and i show my respect for it through my working in the garden. "
I wont give the user name as this person chose to make this comment privately.
Thank You Jen, I am going through a happy phase at the moment, no doubt I'll tumble through other emotions soon enough, but it sort of helps to enjoy the good and get through the bad when you can see it all as an experience rather than a reality! lol!
Very good video response. What you said about nirvana letting go of who you are and all of the constructs we built around yourself...I remember when I was learning about Buddhism (not a lot, I never studied it enough to be able to really discuss it)...nirvana and enlightenment sounded to me as a metaphor for ceasing to exist? But I don't know, like I said I don't know too much about it.
I think it is ceasing to exist in the way we understand existence. Nirvana can only be understood and discussed from within the bounderies of our constructs. As we 'think' in language, if the language was taken away, would there still be thoughts? We cannot define nirvana because it is not part of the constructs that create definitions, contrasts, opposites etc. We can only see it for what it is not.
I actually think, am I enlightened at all if I accept that my reality is a construct, but still wish to participate and relish in those constructs? Am I more or less ignorant or enlightened because I am aware of it?
And I have had moments like that interchange you just described lol!
Interesting vlog. Cool insight into your username. Nirvana is interesting to me. I have always been afraid of the concept of being nothing. There's nothing enjoyable about that, not like life.
As our constructs are life as we know it, if we strip those away we would be left with nirvana, and wouldn't care about the constructs anymore, but we're afraid of that now, so we cling! If you and I are afraid to let go and want to grasp onto something, anything, then we are clinging, but I'm not letting go even if it does cause the cycles of suffering to continue!
Yeah, same here. I find for now I would suffer more if I were to let go of something. Even if the whole point of Nirvana was to learn to let go. I guess in a way, that could be the fear. The fear of nothing, even if it seems silly to be afraid of. :)
And so it goes... in many forms, those conditions which connect us. Love the subject and i think 'Vedana', has a hold on me! heehee... Im always needing.
I learned so much here, dont want to joke about that, but it was inevitable! Wonderful discussion "samsara"!
I'm no authority, and nothing can be summarised in 8 minutes-especially something that is beyond or 'underneath' the constructs of language, but I enjoy delving into these things myself and adding my reactions-so I'm very pleased if anyone learns anything or continues the cycles of thought and contemplation from my words :) All part of my enjoyment of 'samsara'! lol!
Comment removed
calumtonner 1 week ago
(I think this is going to read as nasty/sarcastic, but I beg your indulgence. Please trust that I don't mean it that way!)
And it's all well & good to say stand outside on a sunny day & hug a tree & say "There must be death in order for there to be LIFE!" But tell that to a mother burying her child, or a person in a hospice, writhing in agony as their body is eaten up by cancer. This is where the idea that samsara is unsatisfactory comes from.
CatCommunication 3 years ago
This didn't seem nasty to me, I understand the pain of life, and sometimes it would be preferable NOT to feel. But on some occasions I, and most other people, will get a moment when feeling seems to be the most wonderful thing in the world. The trick is probably awareness of those moments not being permanent, so that we don't expect those happy moments to last forever, and we can take comfort in the painful emotions also not lasting forever, at least not in their intensity.
samsarajade 3 years ago
Yeah. :)
CatCommunication 3 years ago
Hmmmm... I'm not sure that the idea is that "happiness is as negative an emotion as sadness" as you said, or that the goal of Buddhism is to not feel...
The idea is that the things which generally cause these feelings (happiness, sadness) in us in samsara are IMPERMANENT. If you find $20 on the ground (or £20, as it were), you're happy about it, great! But eventually that money & whatever you bought with it will be gone.
CatCommunication 3 years ago
yes that's more accurate I think, that all emotions are impermanent and therefore transient states.
As I say in the video, I'm kind of talking about the remnants of things that stuck in my head from my studies, there were more detailed reasons why I couldn't embrace Budhism that came up for me when I was studying it, but I really can't remember it all. What I mention in this video is just an echo of the things that bothered me.
samsarajade 3 years ago
Yeah, I know what you mean... There are times where I'm like "I can't remember WHAT that book said... I just know that when I read it, I disagreed with it" (whatever book)
CatCommunication 3 years ago
Some amusing mental proliferation there. The Buddha never said we should believe or follow him blindly...we should explore reality. Feelings don't "go together" as you say...they are distinctly separate mental states. If you learn to observe you will see it. Yes, you are not ready to give up grasping to samsara and it's fleeting joys, but maybe in a future lifetime...as you say ;)
With Metta
indigoblue66 3 years ago
IndigoBlue66, I do think she had the right idea in saying that feelings "go together." This seems consistent with everything I've ever been taught about Buddhism (though my studies are admittedly new & limited).
I think that ties into the idea of interdependence. Aversion and attachment are related, so it seems that pleasure and displeasure are as well.
CatCommunication 3 years ago
I have been seriously studying buddhism and was about to declare it my faith. You are a very special person and I am glad I stumbled across this video. I don't want to be numb either. Can you please tell me what faith you follow?
finzlington 3 years ago
Finzlington, I hope that you will not give up your interest in Buddhism based on one youtube video from someone who admittedly is not an expert on Buddhism, or even a Buddhist. :)
If some of what was said here puzzles you or causes you doubt, I would advise you to seek out the advice of your teacher.
Nirvana is not meant to be understood as a state of emotional numbness, and the goal of Buddhism is NOT to stop feeling sadness at the expense of happiness!
CatCommunication 3 years ago
: ) : ): )
I like you a lot and I am so happy I have found you. You have made so many good points. Contrast is so important to help us know what we really want...to help us realize what would truly make us happy we need to experience what doesn't make us happy. The depth of our pain is conversely the depth of our joy. This is only ENLIGHTENMENT by the Buddhist definition. I find a lot of Truth in Buddhism, this part is not part of that Truth for me. : )
Peace to You,
Angie
feelgoodnation 3 years ago
This vlog put me into a very happy sleep... That's not a bad thing.
phekwig 3 years ago
the bit you said at the end about not wanting to be numb struck a cord, it's good to 'feel'
21stCenturyCat 3 years ago
wow that was all very heavy, I think I'd better get SparklyRuth to watch this and then translate for me! ;)
21stCenturyCat 3 years ago
OH! Sorry I thought it was 'cos you liked the perfume! But I'm with you on the Buddha, how come it's always MEN who can renounce their family responsibilities and go to find their enlightenment? If women with families deserted them, no matter how noble or mystic the cause they would still be castigated. Our choice is to be mystic Virgins or holy mothers!
Hellpin 3 years ago
I was using the name samsara before I knew the perfume existed, probably before the perfume DID exist! But before I had an internet name, the only place I used it was as a character name in my writing.
And yeh, I was the only person in college to be indignant about the Budha swanning off to find enlightenment, I asked 'what if his wife suddenly decided that she wanted to do the same thing? What about the child?', the lecturer didn't think that was relevant when enlightenment was at stake. . .
samsarajade 3 years ago
My soon to be stepmother is buddhist, I'm so looking forward to learning about her religion. Nice to hear your thoughts, Tia.
LeiGhh93 3 years ago
That was fun. Man it's been many years since I delved into any of this. It seems to me that Nirvana is eternal death/life, and like you, I enjoy this ride too much to want to exist/not exist that way. I loved the skipping at the end. It made me smile.
rhythm7a 3 years ago
I try not to talk about religion. I'm an Atheist.
Aceswolf 3 years ago
Well, strictly speaking Budhism isn't a religion as there is no God involved.
samsarajade 3 years ago
you own i was with you up to the point you said huge a tree
thebigsleep2000 3 years ago
Hugging trees is optional ;)
I have to make fun of myself a little bit lol
samsarajade 3 years ago
This was sent to me in a pm, thought it would be a good addition to the comments here.
"when i think aobut the life cycles and such and you realize that life and learning goes on and will continue to go on for enternity it changes how you think about things. you see past bad decisions and mistakes and see knowledge forming though experiance good and bad. "
samsarajade 3 years ago
"you could say that the garden grows and produces fruit with or without your desires or actions. I delight in revealing truth and dispise the covering of it and although the garden would grow without me using my wisdom to help, i have not lost my love of life and truth and i show my respect for it through my working in the garden. "
I wont give the user name as this person chose to make this comment privately.
samsarajade 3 years ago
go girl.x
popebenadict16 3 years ago
OOO I love Buddha! Great Video Tia! Very intelectual lol :)
Brothersun86 3 years ago
lol, thanks Gary, I have my moments of interlektewlism. . . like when I watched Dead Poets Society lol!
samsarajade 3 years ago
Great video response hun.
Extremely interesting.
Hope you're well.
x
rottingcherriez 3 years ago
Thank You Jen, I am going through a happy phase at the moment, no doubt I'll tumble through other emotions soon enough, but it sort of helps to enjoy the good and get through the bad when you can see it all as an experience rather than a reality! lol!
samsarajade 3 years ago
Very good video response. What you said about nirvana letting go of who you are and all of the constructs we built around yourself...I remember when I was learning about Buddhism (not a lot, I never studied it enough to be able to really discuss it)...nirvana and enlightenment sounded to me as a metaphor for ceasing to exist? But I don't know, like I said I don't know too much about it.
aricastardust 3 years ago
I think it is ceasing to exist in the way we understand existence. Nirvana can only be understood and discussed from within the bounderies of our constructs. As we 'think' in language, if the language was taken away, would there still be thoughts? We cannot define nirvana because it is not part of the constructs that create definitions, contrasts, opposites etc. We can only see it for what it is not.
samsarajade 3 years ago
There are other forms of enlightenment...
IMHO being able to enjoy the journey through the ups and downs is one of them.
She: Are we having an argument?
He: Yes, I believe so.
She: Then why are you smiling?
He: Because I am with you and we are communicating.
TimberGeek 3 years ago
I actually think, am I enlightened at all if I accept that my reality is a construct, but still wish to participate and relish in those constructs? Am I more or less ignorant or enlightened because I am aware of it?
And I have had moments like that interchange you just described lol!
samsarajade 3 years ago
that's a lot to think about.
great video!
iamcoolalot 3 years ago
Fantastic vlog!! So much to think about, isn't there? I like life too!
Ravensinger 3 years ago
What an awesome Vlog... very interesting and makes one think.
StakeJade 3 years ago
yay religion
hartnell114 3 years ago
That was a great vlog!
There is an old saying:
Words and teachings may describe the truth but are not the Truth itself.
When the Buddha gathered his pupils to choose his successor, only his successor realized the signifiance of the flower in the Buddha's hands.
Jervns 3 years ago
Interesting vlog. Cool insight into your username. Nirvana is interesting to me. I have always been afraid of the concept of being nothing. There's nothing enjoyable about that, not like life.
HaleyMary 3 years ago
As our constructs are life as we know it, if we strip those away we would be left with nirvana, and wouldn't care about the constructs anymore, but we're afraid of that now, so we cling! If you and I are afraid to let go and want to grasp onto something, anything, then we are clinging, but I'm not letting go even if it does cause the cycles of suffering to continue!
samsarajade 3 years ago
Yeah, same here. I find for now I would suffer more if I were to let go of something. Even if the whole point of Nirvana was to learn to let go. I guess in a way, that could be the fear. The fear of nothing, even if it seems silly to be afraid of. :)
HaleyMary 3 years ago
Interesting.
If you have Nirvana... yo uhave no YouTube.
deansig 3 years ago
Um... I'm not gonna pretend to totally get that, but I had no idea Nirvana was a state of total neutrality. That's kind of a ripoff.
ReloadPsi 3 years ago
I always want my money back when I get too deep into any religion! Even the non-religious religions!
Faddish cults are much more my thing!
samsarajade 3 years ago
OH! SamsaraJade thanks for the enlightenment xD
I enjoy it the ups and downs too
great vlog
Scorpi0 3 years ago
fantastic vlog and response Tia!
you put the yin in the yang baby!
LeSaMilano 3 years ago
And so it goes... in many forms, those conditions which connect us. Love the subject and i think 'Vedana', has a hold on me! heehee... Im always needing.
I learned so much here, dont want to joke about that, but it was inevitable! Wonderful discussion "samsara"!
cooksterz 3 years ago
I'm no authority, and nothing can be summarised in 8 minutes-especially something that is beyond or 'underneath' the constructs of language, but I enjoy delving into these things myself and adding my reactions-so I'm very pleased if anyone learns anything or continues the cycles of thought and contemplation from my words :) All part of my enjoyment of 'samsara'! lol!
samsarajade 3 years ago
Wow, I would never have guessed! My dentist (she is chinese american) is also Buddhist.
nek1555 3 years ago