@cbobmonster You'll probably have to have a tech look at it, suddenly going from cooling to just warm air could be any one of a dozen different problems ranging from a burned off wire to a dead compressor! M@
Could it be that the constant on and off of the unit cause the PTC to overheat? and did you inspect the mettering device used? by the time you rewired the components the TXV could have evened out the pressures and allowed the condensor to start easier.
521 Potential relay versus PTC EXPLAINED. pros cons. the 521's the way to you but you have to select the CORRECT pick up voltage for the given compresor. the 521 has a set of normally closed contacts THAT short line to start,, that open once the voltage between start and comon is greated than line voltage. to size a 521 properly this is how you do it. once the compressor's running check the voltage between common and start, which will be from 400 to 470 VOLTS!!!
The blue part you called a soft start is a solid state relay. Its the same as the hard start kit but smaller and no start cap. If you snip the yellow wire and put each end on a start cap you now have a smaller hard start. Since it was too small for the compressor it could not drop out the start winding fast enough causing the hot temp of part, high current and breaker trip. Since current takes the path of least resistance it was flowing through the blue relay instead of the supco hard start.
i live a mobile home and i don't know what is the problem because the compresor wors slow but when seems the it's going to work normal the brakes turns offand the compresor stops compleate it's happems in 2 mins real qck and try to turn it on in hot & emheat dosen't work u know qhat is the problem??
Sounds like the condenser fan motor run capacitor is bad or the motor is bad. Without the fan working properly the compressor is getting too hot and is overheating. If the compressor is out on overload (from getting too hot) it will need a cooling period to reset. You need a qualified technician to determine which part's bad.
actually 5-2-1 arent even that great.. they just turn your compressor into a cap start cap run compressor, the only really good hard start device is a kick start... otherwise your just charging the poor customer to throw more crap on their unit.
Everyone has thier favorite start kits, I prefer 3 wire jobs instead of the 2 wire ones. I seem to replace them more often. Other than the way things are wired the kickstart is basically the same as a 5-2-1, they both have a capacitor and both have a current sensing relay. The kickstart is just a more convient package to wire and install since it's just one screw and 2 wires:>
start up amp draw isnt your problem. 25 is nothing. even 45 something is nothing depending on size of unit. anthying under 50 is OK. check for shorts to ground or rubbed through high voltage wires in outdoor unit. some compressors may run an extended period of time without tripping the breaker again, but not many. amp draw increasing on second start attempt is from liquid flooding back to compressor from depressing contactor w/out blower operation and not allowing referiferant to equalize.
Those PTC's work on temp. Once you start the unit and cycle it off you have to wait several min. before you start it again.The PTC's can overheat and melt or catch fire. P.O.S.
Make sure the refrigerant after turning the system off isnt still circulating, then when turning on it pulls high amps trying to come back. That blue start cap is junk I always see them blow up in units lol just replace em.
Not that I've ever noticed. Usually if the startup amp draw is under the breaker size I don't worry about it too much. If it's over I'll recommend a hard start kit. (in addition to checking lug connections in the unit, disconnect box and possibly in the breaker box too)
I should have said this first. You have two start devices at the same time. Don't use both. Whoever installed the Supco should have removed the PTC device. Ther are two kinds of PTC devices A single and double. Or the tan and blue. You can actually check the Ohms to see if they are good or not. the blue and tan have different values but I don't remember what they are. All I remember is if it is melted---it's bad!
The reason it gets hot is because that is how it works! It is a start thermistor (softy start) if you take it apart you will find 3 metal plates seperated by a ceramic looking material. When the current is applied it gets real hot real fast. The resistance changes with the temperature (that is why it is a thermistor) the temperature goes up, the resistance goes up so high it takes itself out of the circuit. If you open up the Supco you will find almost the same thing. Use one or the other!
those 2 wire hardstarts are pos the potential relay is the way to go as far as that is concerned however you need to make sure it is sized properly or else you may cause undue wear and tear on your compressor. and yeah i see those lil softstart caps die all the time.
Not being an HVAC pro, I too was initially confused as to the the meaning of this term/abbreviation. For example, POS is an excepted abbreviation for Point Of Sale...
After an extensive (and I believe exhaustive pun intended) Google research and reading some strongly held opinions of HVAC Pros, this term is used to describe poorly designed pieces of HVAC equipment: as in Piece Of S***!
I understand :) I've never really researched if there is a way to fool with it. Usually it works or it's cooked and charred! Only way I knew this one was toast was the amp draw difference.
What exactly is the soft start pos???What does it do???
THEHVACTECH101 1 year ago
mike i have a york roof mounted unit blows warm air all of a sudden what do u think compressior thanks
cbobmonster 1 year ago
@cbobmonster You'll probably have to have a tech look at it, suddenly going from cooling to just warm air could be any one of a dozen different problems ranging from a burned off wire to a dead compressor! M@
mikie2501 1 year ago
@cbobmonster Maybe there is a leak of refrigerant somewhere also.
THEHVACTECH101 1 year ago
Could it be that the constant on and off of the unit cause the PTC to overheat? and did you inspect the mettering device used? by the time you rewired the components the TXV could have evened out the pressures and allowed the condensor to start easier.
acsjoe1224 1 year ago
Great informational video
Bobafyde4 1 year ago
521 Potential relay versus PTC EXPLAINED. pros cons. the 521's the way to you but you have to select the CORRECT pick up voltage for the given compresor. the 521 has a set of normally closed contacts THAT short line to start,, that open once the voltage between start and comon is greated than line voltage. to size a 521 properly this is how you do it. once the compressor's running check the voltage between common and start, which will be from 400 to 470 VOLTS!!!
sickbastard80 1 year ago
The blue part you called a soft start is a solid state relay. Its the same as the hard start kit but smaller and no start cap. If you snip the yellow wire and put each end on a start cap you now have a smaller hard start. Since it was too small for the compressor it could not drop out the start winding fast enough causing the hot temp of part, high current and breaker trip. Since current takes the path of least resistance it was flowing through the blue relay instead of the supco hard start.
RefrigeTech 2 years ago
He is very good.
plantengineer02 2 years ago
your vids. are better than Dr.Zarldoff
linoleumcarving 2 years ago
i live a mobile home and i don't know what is the problem because the compresor wors slow but when seems the it's going to work normal the brakes turns offand the compresor stops compleate it's happems in 2 mins real qck and try to turn it on in hot & emheat dosen't work u know qhat is the problem??
gemajo123 2 years ago
Sounds like the condenser fan motor run capacitor is bad or the motor is bad. Without the fan working properly the compressor is getting too hot and is overheating. If the compressor is out on overload (from getting too hot) it will need a cooling period to reset. You need a qualified technician to determine which part's bad.
Rueuhy 2 years ago
actually 5-2-1 arent even that great.. they just turn your compressor into a cap start cap run compressor, the only really good hard start device is a kick start... otherwise your just charging the poor customer to throw more crap on their unit.
yeaababy69 2 years ago
Everyone has thier favorite start kits, I prefer 3 wire jobs instead of the 2 wire ones. I seem to replace them more often. Other than the way things are wired the kickstart is basically the same as a 5-2-1, they both have a capacitor and both have a current sensing relay. The kickstart is just a more convient package to wire and install since it's just one screw and 2 wires:>
mikie2501 2 years ago
do u have a schematic to install a latching relay coil to stop a compressor from short cycling due to a leaky solenoid valve?
MrArcticair 2 years ago
Thanks! :) very helpful
nemetona123 2 years ago
start up amp draw isnt your problem. 25 is nothing. even 45 something is nothing depending on size of unit. anthying under 50 is OK. check for shorts to ground or rubbed through high voltage wires in outdoor unit. some compressors may run an extended period of time without tripping the breaker again, but not many. amp draw increasing on second start attempt is from liquid flooding back to compressor from depressing contactor w/out blower operation and not allowing referiferant to equalize.
soccerpapaw 2 years ago
thanks
linoleumcarving 2 years ago
Comment removed
soccerpapaw 2 years ago
Those PTC's work on temp. Once you start the unit and cycle it off you have to wait several min. before you start it again.The PTC's can overheat and melt or catch fire. P.O.S.
bradbbac 2 years ago
good info on cap inspection..thanks..
keviekev70 2 years ago
Make sure the refrigerant after turning the system off isnt still circulating, then when turning on it pulls high amps trying to come back. That blue start cap is junk I always see them blow up in units lol just replace em.
hemiownzu 2 years ago
It's PTC(Positive Temperature Coefficient)
jdr5501 2 years ago
Ty :> couldn't remember that, lol.
mikie2501 2 years ago
POS = Piece Of Shit! ;)
diymania 2 years ago
Mike
Is the info on how many amps the compressor should draw on a start up on the compressor itself or where can I find it? Thanks for your videos!
1Ronin187 2 years ago
Not that I've ever noticed. Usually if the startup amp draw is under the breaker size I don't worry about it too much. If it's over I'll recommend a hard start kit. (in addition to checking lug connections in the unit, disconnect box and possibly in the breaker box too)
mikie2501 2 years ago
There is nothing like the "5-2-1" those other PTC devices are a waste of money, yet they sell like crazy.
Icehouse59 3 years ago
whats a 5-2-1?
keviekev70 2 years ago
yeah those "P.O.S." are "P.O.S." once they get too hot they dont work no use in even having it in the summer
L3G4LIZ3 3 years ago
I should have said this first. You have two start devices at the same time. Don't use both. Whoever installed the Supco should have removed the PTC device. Ther are two kinds of PTC devices A single and double. Or the tan and blue. You can actually check the Ohms to see if they are good or not. the blue and tan have different values but I don't remember what they are. All I remember is if it is melted---it's bad!
buckners1 3 years ago
The reason it gets hot is because that is how it works! It is a start thermistor (softy start) if you take it apart you will find 3 metal plates seperated by a ceramic looking material. When the current is applied it gets real hot real fast. The resistance changes with the temperature (that is why it is a thermistor) the temperature goes up, the resistance goes up so high it takes itself out of the circuit. If you open up the Supco you will find almost the same thing. Use one or the other!
buckners1 3 years ago
those 2 wire hardstarts are pos the potential relay is the way to go as far as that is concerned however you need to make sure it is sized properly or else you may cause undue wear and tear on your compressor. and yeah i see those lil softstart caps die all the time.
flux302 3 years ago
yes, piece of shit
fl352gator 3 years ago
thanks so much rlewis1946
caletcalet 3 years ago
pos means capacitors?
caletcalet 3 years ago
Not being an HVAC pro, I too was initially confused as to the the meaning of this term/abbreviation. For example, POS is an excepted abbreviation for Point Of Sale...
After an extensive (and I believe exhaustive pun intended) Google research and reading some strongly held opinions of HVAC Pros, this term is used to describe poorly designed pieces of HVAC equipment: as in Piece Of S***!
Am I correct, gentlemen?
RL Atlanta, GA USA
rlewis1946 3 years ago
I could never figure out how to test the pos.
quickfreeze45 3 years ago
I understand :) I've never really researched if there is a way to fool with it. Usually it works or it's cooked and charred! Only way I knew this one was toast was the amp draw difference.
mikie2501 3 years ago
Thanks for the interesting story. I've been getting a run of email regarding run caps.
DrZarkloff 3 years ago