Collision: Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson - new trailer Oct 2009

[adrianaesque]

Religious people are delusional idiots. Case closed.

[aaron10612]

You humifobe; when you figure out what you are then you will maybe understand us humans?

[backwoodsninja]

The real problem with all Christian apologetics is that the existence of the Judeo-Christian God must be taken as a given. It is quite interesting that there must be a field of "Christian apologetics." You'd think that a supreme being could make Himself known rather than remaining invisible and silent while letting us bicker over it.

[ol1veriscool]

Holy shit!! I love this trailer it's so true to the badass nature of Hitchens

[XhardcorehistorianX]

the rock music makes Hitchens look even more bad ass lol

[rozinante12]

Yeah, definitely not a "Collision". Both men seem smart enough, with enough reason behind them. Probably wont change, keeping that Jesus dosent come down to slap Hitchens, or that Wilson never suffers more than Job did...The movie would be more suitably titled "Bouncing". At least they're smarter than self righteous atheist/christian you see on these boards.

[aaron10612]

Slowly I'll try to teach you Mr. Hitchens. First, the type of love we are supose to have for God? He wants us to love Him with all of are being; the fear part is to be in awe of Him, not the type of fear you are thinking.

[tphaff]

@aaron10612 Thank you for the kind words Aaron. In return, I will attempt to help you. First of all, you are not speaking directly to Mr. Hitchens, unfortunately the internet is slightly more complicated than that. Secondly, you are a condescending faggot, which is not to be confused with those feelings that you constantly battle (that would be homosexuality, which is quite natural). Lastly, I regret to inform you that your god does not exist. Cheers.

[Hermoor]

Hitchen is my idol...his brain not his body xD

[Arondeus]

@KatelynDansonhruvxw You meant to say: "We just SAW this." SAW SAW SAW SAW SAW SAW, damnit! What is happening to the English language in the US?? You just SAW this.

[derSchlagzeuger13]

This was a great debate. Best one I have ever seen and worth the buy.

[thebigpolarbear]

is that an as i lay dying song at 0:40???

[holyturdsofjesus]

Why was the jesus dude quoting John Lennon's anti-religion (sort of) song "Imagine"?

[ashunga543]

easy answer to that question he proposed to hitchen's: morality is not objective

[041290]

then ill butt and face fuck you til hell freezes over

[ashunga543]

@041290

someone be trolling

[Estexan07]

Pretty good movie. Hitchens wins, but that's a given. :)

[kushisaac]

my favorite parts were when they filmed them meeting outside the debates, the dinner conversations were great

[Mayrantus]

Why are you guys arguing this here? See the documentary above and many of these weak arguments will be rebutted. For the contentious among you surely there is a forum or echo chamber somewhere that cares. I have seen the documentary and it is well done.

[jxwhee]

Jesus saves yall, but then again most jewish people do.

[bobsmith1875]

I use the religious distinction because it's interesting for me at least to note that the Christian God is not Christian, neither born, died or revived and ascended as such. I've never understood that point, other than it grants legitimacy to assume the Torah as part of it's doctrine, which...I guess grants legitimacy. The Christian church built it's houses and holidays on the bones of other older and defeated religions. Not that I have a problem with that, it's the way of the world and mankind.

[mclaumar]

The point of the Law (a.k.a. the Torah), was to outline who God is (Holy, Righteous, Just) and what God requires of man, and to show how we as descendants of Adam cannot keep that Law. He then, in his mercy and grace sent His Son in the form of Man (thus the virgin birth via Mary), taking upon Him (Christ) God's punishment toward man's inability to keep His Law, yet the Son fulfilling His Law. Boom, Christianity. To me, that's pretty amazing He did that for us.

[mclaumar]

Bob, if that peaked your interest at all, I would recommend reading Paul's letter to the Romans. He explains it really well.

[jwpierce07]

"piqued" your interest.

[jwpierce07]

So long "loving god" then...

[bobsmith1875]

I'm actually not sure if that's facetious or not, if so bravo. It is quite ludicrous. Imagine a god that can do anything at all, create wonders beyond comprehension but must impregnate a virgin to give birth to a jew that will die horribly as a scapegoat for the sins of semi-practicing jews without even so much as consulting those they sinned against! I'm not with the idea that religion serves no purpose, we are hardwired I think to seek a firm explanation for things we see,but be rational.

[bobsmith1875]

morals have little to do with religion.I say look to the Old Testament if you want a clear idea of what the Judeo-Christian God is about.he is not a kind figure, he doesn't care if you exist, he may kill you for fun or spite and certainly doesn't offer concrete rewards for service other than NOT killing you for fun. This is an old, ancient god that everyone after the Jews have tried to remake in their hopeful image. This is incorrect at best, assuming the first book is true. Take it from a jew.

[mclaumar]

You're absolutely right Bob Smith. He totally doesn't care if we exist, and wants to kill us for fun-- OH WAIT. That's right, He sent His only Son to die for us, to pay for our sins since we cannot, and to reconcile us back to Him!

[Vire70]

And? Sacrificing his "only son" (ignoring that he could easily make more) is supposed to make us care... why? I couldn't give a flying fuck personally.

Besides which, why would you send your child to pay for the sins which you yourself are keeping tally of. God could have just as easily said "Y'know, I forgive all of you.". A living sacrifice and primitive and barbaric - as is the Old testament god.

[mclaumar]

I stand corrected, "piqued" your interest.

Anywho, what difference does it make if God forgives us by saying it, or sending Christ to cover our sins, the point is our sin, against Him is forgiven because what He did for us, nothing what we did by ourselves.

Again, that's a merciful God, not a barbaric God. We *SHOULD* deserve eternal damnation, we sinned against Him, yet we are forgiven.

[Vire70]

What rubbish. These "sins" are only sins because god decided they are. Why even bother giving people free choice only to point a metaphorical gun at their head and demand obedience under threat of torture. Some mercy that is.

I just dont understand why a blood sacrifice is touted as the ultimate sacrifice, or why it should matter to us.

Besides, we don't owe god anything. If its our own decisions to do things then its his decisions to make us too. There's no obligation to pay him shit.

[mclaumar]

If I owed $100,00 to my credit card company, and they came to me and said, you know what, my son here will pay your debt. Personally, I'm not going to reply with, "I don't give a flying f***. Why are you keeping tally of what I owe you?"

But that's just me...

[Havenfall]

@mclaumar

You would be okay with a credit card company wiping your debt free with human sacrifice?

[NothingIsEverEasy]

@geeks

"without Christianity, all morals are subjective, there's no clear view of good and evil."

In the Bible's first book, God kills the whole world! He drowns them, even babies! He sends horrible plagues to torture innocent Egyptians who had no part in their Pharaoh's decision-making. He tells Moses to kill everyone in the "promised land." And this is considered moral by Christians simply because God did/commanded it! Do you call this moral clarity?

[HypnoPants]

lol loved the bit of metal music :D

[richopoly]

Wilson all the way!

Wilson gave the most logical arguments.

However, its not about winning the arguments its about winning man to Christ.

[dennysanders]

lol...oh you poor brainwashed imbecile

[applefrog111]

0:15

imagine would be a good song for this movie.

[mrpayne123]

Kick ass Hitchens.

I get so sick of the religious saying "where would our morals come from without religion?" They obsviously have nothing to do with religion bc if people followed the bible or koran everyone would be getting stoned for working on the sabbath, adultery, teenage drunkery, being a "witch", blasphemy, etc etc etc. The streets would be flooded with dead bodies.

It's obvious the way they cherry pick the holy books that the morals come from within everybody.

[MyBodyBlog]

Rehearsed scripted and tired. This is how I see this movie. Both of these people have a script they are following. I truly like Christopher and read his book and share his view on religion. But this is ridiculous. Debating the same arguments, but this time to a tune of a directer and a script. How lovely.

[depletable]

Hitchens is going to say everything Maher didn't. Can't wait.

[XhardcorehistorianX]

@depletable very well said

[rivendellchick1]

Pre-ordered the DVD. Can't wait to see it!

[dreadeh]

This looks great! Looking forward to this.

[Bezwaar123]

Interesting point. By what standard could you judge anything if there were no divine and timeless law? By majority rule? The decree of an elite oligarchy? A monarchy? Hmm...

[Ontologistics]

Well you can't, that's why nihilism is correct (see my video on it!).

[Eikinkloster]

Majority rule, mostly. As it has always been. What changes is the means to acquire this majority. What kind of reasoning will resonate with the current majority. What will work with their previously stablished moral expectations.

[Gwisss]

Bravo Eikinkloster, you've done in one sentence on a comment tree, what Christopher Hitchens glibly avoided saying in this entire film (it seems).

Humans have an innate desire to group together. As our 'in group' grows, the majority slowly melds from one social moral view to another. These social moral views are determined by our innate neurological predisposition to be socially abiding primates. Our empathy for our brothers and sisters guides our decisions.

Wilson refuted.

[Eikinkloster]

@Gwisss Wilson is a punching bag.

[Gwisss]

Yes, and it seemed like Hitchens was pulling punches.

[geeksrchic1368]

you don't get it do you. Wilson was not the punching bag. You new atheists just like to scream at the top of your lungs, the same theory over and over again, that there is no God. Yet without Christianity, all morals are subjective, there's no clear view of good and evil. If I happen to slap you right now, you can't call that bad, or if I shot you right now, you wouldn't call it bad, or even worse, you can't even call the Holocaust bad at all. So pretty much, Wilson got him on that argument

[Eikinkloster]

This is called axiomatic construction. Every line of thought has to begin from an axiom. Something we simply assume to be true. You're simply assuming Jesus to be true and somehow deducing from it that slapping is bad (as if Christianity had been characterized by moral clarity throughout History). I'm assuming slapping is bad. By Christianity, by the way, you'd have my other cheek. In real life, you'd end up having a first *hand* experience on what's bad about slapping.

[TheMikerman]

By an ethical social consensus? That's what every human society has done through History. Yo know why? Because morality is a social construct based on conflicting interests and cultural background.

[akafish77]

Good job, you know your Nieztsche.

[tronprogram]

Looks like a better documentary than most. Who makes documentaries on this subject?

[theinquisitor]

What happens when the unstoppable Hitchens meets the immovable Wilson?

[Eikinkloster]

They make a documentary and get rich.

[Eikinkloster]

Oh come on, it was a pretty good retort. Being godless shouldn't make you homourless.

[vaaaliant]

You got a dream job, I'd get your coffee and I'm a civil engineer :)