THE Real Out of Body Experience is not what the skeptics say

[rovingdesertfox]

It's not an OBE, the consciousness doesn't leave the body, because it isn't in the body. Our consciousness is not here with us in this virtual reality we live in. It is separate and apart from our bodies.

[miking193]

@rovingdesertfox I am not saying you are wrong. I appreciate the comment & thought. Consider this though please. This video is intended for hardcore skeptics, people who don't except anything except what the establishment peer views to be true. So I try to stay with in those bounds when trying to reach them.

[rovingdesertfox]

@rovingdesertfox I was just in-putting, not contending. Keep up the good work. And check out Thomas Campbell and his Theory of Everything for a mind expanding view on life as a Virtual Reality.

[miking193]

@rovingdesertfox No biggie. Thanks for the heads up on Thomas Campbell. You have you heard Chuck Missler on how we live in a virtual reality? From your comments it should be right up your ally.

[Huttate1]

Why doesn't everyone experience this.

Brain death is based on electrical activity.

Many neurons fire on a purely chemical basis.

And as we do not yet undertand fully how the brain works, a lack of electrical activity does not mean the braon is not working.

But fascinating subject.

[miking193]

@Huttate1 It is a fact that, if the brain is creating a memory an electrical pulse will be detected by an EEG. Based on the latest research that is a fact. & there is no reason to assume a memory is being created w/ out a sign of electricity in the brain. Yes chemicals are involved but the transaction will show on an electrical output as well. Consider this, not only was there no electrical activity but there was also no pulse or breathing. At best you'd expect fuzzy memories not accurate ones

[Huttate1]

@miking193 I'll consider the first point, as I have not considered the specifics you detail, but I refute the second point. There is ample evidence that even the hypothalamus can survive for extended periods without oxygenation.

[miking193]

@Huttate1 it's not just no oxygen, it's no pulse, no electricity, & no oxygen. Consider, the brain was shutting down while there was no electricity etc... You wouldn't expect the person who had impaired brain capacity to remember events going on in the room both accurately & in detail, that matched the medical staff. On top of that it was complicated medical procedures that they were previously ignorant of, it's like a drunk remembering all the moves of a chess match.

[Huttate1]

@miking193

The brain was obviously not in necrosis or the person would not be here to tell the tail.

As I said we now know that all components of the brain can survive a prolonged state of complete death - and the time is lengthening all the time with protective chemicals and cooled recovery techniques. So unless we have a case of monitored brain death of over 30 minutes, we can say no more than Wow!

A facinating tail it is and I am still working my way through the reports I have.

[miking193]

@Huttate1 If you read the article in the Lancet the doctor there says the brain was dead and not active during the time there was no electrical activity, otherwise there'd be electrical activity on the eeg. The brain ca comunicate with itself without electrical activity. He explains all the options and why his is the best explanation.

[Huttate1]

@miking193 You can't say that with absolute cetainty, nor can he. He would have to explain how the brain functions and we do not yet know.

There is also the simple fact that the patients perceptions almost certainly occured during shutdown / wake-up of the brain and the period of supposed brain death is immaterial.

As I said previously; fascinating, but what does this have to do with supernatural beings. You mentioned evidence - so far a controversial article in The Lancet with no relevance.

[miking193]

@Huttate1 You should just go read the article rather than say it can prove this or that, who do you know, what it can & can't show, you haven't read it? Prove is tough word, rather where it suggest the evidence points to. That's what the doctor's case is, that the latest evidence suggest the brain can communicate with itself (make memories) w/ out having electrical signals. These patients were noted as not having an electrical signals during the time the events happened that they remembered.

[Huttate1]

@miking193 I have it on my PC, together with 5 critiques of it and several articles on it. A doctor's view is not evidence. What the patients think they remembered is not necessarily the same as reality. I appreciate your ready to accept it because it fits your belief system. But a couple of reported cases and testimonies makes something fascinating and not conclusive. Otherwise we would belief everything that is out there from UFO's to ghosts. I have not dismissed this - more data is required.

[miking193]

@Huttate1 "A doctor's view is not evidence" It's not just a doctor's view, come on. The evidence came from many medical reports that, patients were legally dead & when they came to, they were able to recall detailed accurate information that matched that of the medical staffs. That is evidence. The various medical staff's have no bias to admit this strange behavior happened, they might not even been aware that it happens all over the world & has been documented as such. It's not just a few cases

[miking193]

@Huttate1 If U want to paint me as a country bumpkin who will drink any kool aid so long as it has God on the logo, because it fits your belief system fine, I can appreciate that. B4 I was a Christian I was looking into this, & partly Y I started to believe in God. If U were to watch the Evidence for God videos which start with the OBE's then show 2 Professors research (1 from Cambridge the other from Princeton) on PSI & the evidence they have found, it gives more support for how I view the OBE

[evpcuriosity]

its a near death experience meaning you haven't died yet, so it doesn't prove anything

[miking193]

@evpcuriosity Deep thinker, maybe if you wathced the video, you'd have a better chance of saying something relevant.

[evpcuriosity]

@miking193 you're absolutely right i didn't bother watching any of it

[miking193]

@evpcuriosity enough said.

[dbes02]

Where is the evidence that the experience occurs when the brain has shut down? The skeptics argument doesn't break down at all. But there's plenty of shoddy anecdotal claims about going through walls. Odd how the brain has to shut down for this to happen. What's thre reason that I can't leave my body anytime I like? Why do people have to make up such ridiculous fairy tales?

[miking193]

@dbes02 It's disappointing looking through the comments we get, because of comments like this. We provide links to the Lancet if not the top then among the top of leading Medical Journals in the world. In there it provides the documented cases where patients were being monitored & had no brain, heart or lung activity. Yet were able to make flawless complex memories, of the medical procedures & there story matched that of the med staff. It's like a blacked out drunk having a perfect recollection

[dbes02]

Well @miking193, it's disappointing you would spread the nonsense. So expect more comments like mine. When cases are properly assessed they are not verifiable or come to naught. Nothing to say it's from when they are dead. Much effort and timegets spent to redress the negligent, sloppy “research” that infests every claim of the supernatural. The supernatural is by definition not addressed by science (even if it’s in the Lancet). It‘s steeped in make-believe, with no intellectual credibility.

[miking193]

@dbes02 predictable a lot of words, not a lot of meaning. Get off your high horse, I provided links to the Lancet which covers everything spoken in this video, except they don't call it the supernatural, however they also didn't rule that out, and some of the researchers think it could be. I admit to people that the final step I take is my own interpretation of what is going on based on the evidence.

[dbes02]

@miking193 Of course my words are predictable -- that is what the evicence supports. No horses involved. I've read the infamous Lancet article and of course about the infamous man with the dentures -- including the account of the infamous nurse, and the unverified assertion by the nurse that the patient had not been conscious. Oh dear, it's so convincing.

[miking193]

@dbes02 The other predictable claim people like you make is, the brain was shutting down. The rebutal to that is, how do you explain the accurate detailed memories of events that happened while they had no electrical activity? If it's similar to someone having a stroke, being drunk, or having a concussion those people with impaired electrical activity don't have detailed accurate memories, but fuzzy blurry memories.

[dbes02]

Your question re fuzzy vs clear memory makes no sense. If mind is separate, why wouldn't memory always be clear? Why would there ever be a tie to a physical brain? How could the brain affect memory? How does atrophy of the brain, in dementia, destroy the person? The overwhelming evidence is for dependence of consciousness on the brain, setting the burden of evidence high – too high for the sloppy nde research to near. If the rationality I ride takes me higher than fraud & fairy tale, so be it.

[miking193]

@dbes02 Your question re fuzzy vs clear memory makes no sense. - A clear memory is one that you can remember the details, a fuzzy memory is one where, you are not sure, of the details. That's pretty simple if you can't get that, then you are less then simple. You can say what you want, but you have past my thresh hold of giving you a chance, it is clear to me you don't care what the facts are, you mind is already made up. So I'm giving up on trying to inform you.

[dbes02]

@miking193 My questions were very sensible - how can the brain in any situation affect memory of the ghost in the machine? Because that is what is being claimed by people like you -- a mind not dependent on the physical brain. How could alcohol affect such a mind?

Yet assessment of those amazing cases don't hold up - what details are you talking about and where is the evience that they were obtained when the brtain was dead?

You may as well give up if you have no better "argument".

[miking193]

@dbes02 "how... ghost in the machine." The theory is the mind works through the brain while they are connected, (when the person is alive). When the connection is broken (the person is dead) the mind is totally independent of the brain. The mind is the software, & the brain is the hardware, if the hardware is damaged by alcohol then the software can't work through it at full capacity. Decent question why I replied. "My questions were very sensible" Everyone can be right in their own mind.

[dbes02]

@miking193 So if the brain is the hardware then the mind can't work without the brain. So it can't work when the brain is dead. You've just presented a completely contradictory account. And your software/hardware analogy makes no sense because software is still within matter/energy.

Re. the original problem, there is no evidence that the DETAILED memories are forming when the brain is dead(!) or shutting down, but during consciousness. Hallucinations will occur when the brain is shutting down

[miking193]

@dbes02 "the mind can't work without the brain. So it can't work when the brain is dead." I'm trying to be gentle & take things slow for you, & it makes it hard when you're not only arrogant, your ignorant to, it's the worse combo. If we're not dualistic then we should stop thinking the second our brain stops. W/ out electrical impulse the brain has stopped. These patients had no electrical impulse thus if we're just materials, their ability to think should have stopped but it didn't which means

[dbes02]

@miking193 Yes, we stop thinking the second our brain stops. The people did not have the ability to think at that time, and there is no verified evidence that they did. You said there was a dependency on the hardware, because alcohol causes fuzzy memories -- you sink your own position!

The overwhelming evidence is that the the mind is produced by the brain -- it is a biological phenomenon.

[dbes02]

@dbes02 But it;s your intellectual fraud which is the worst bit. You feign a following for science with your slppy attempt to use empirical measures, then you slither fraudulently into simply making up a god hardware. So where is it? Theists usual rant about their magic man being beyond the natural world - so where on earth does the evicence come from? You got it -- it's all out of thin air.

The memories of the events were not formed when the brain was dead. How much more clear could it be?

[miking193]

@dbes02 "The memories of the events were not formed when the brain was dead. How much more clear could it be?" Then when they did they form you baboon? An actual memory of an event, would be created during that event, not sometime after, you are making up the most assine arguments, please stop taking up my time. Go take your assine self elsewhere. The evidence of them making actual memories, is their ability to acurately describe complex patterns, words etc.. verifed be the med staff or cameras

[miking193]

@dbes02 "The memories of the events were not formed when the brain was dead. How much more clear could it be?" Then when they did they form you baboon? An actual memory of an event, would be created during that event, not sometime after, you are making up the most assine arguments, please stop taking up my time. Go take your assine self elsewhere. The evidence of them making actual memories, is their ability to acurately describe complex patterns, words etc.. verifed be the med staff or cameras

[dbes02]

@miking193 Exactly, the events represented by the memories were not events occurring when the brain was dead. When you have a properly controlled scientific study instead of the sloppy stuff you're stuck with, then you might be able to develop something.

I'm not taking up your time -- you choose to respond to me.

So what case has the "complex patterns" and verification by "camera"? None of the articles you reference (and that actually came up) mention cameras.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "Exactly, the events represented by the memories were not events occurring when the brain was dead." What R U talking about, they recalled events that happened while their was brain dead. It isn't just 3 cases that U site. Do U eat a hamburger & 10 minutes later develop the memory, no you develop it as it happens, maybe parts r added, subtracted, or twisted as time goes on but the initial memory develops as it's happening, same has to be w/ the people who had an OBE while brain dead

[miking193]

@dbes02 "Exactly, the events represented by the memories were not events occurring when the brain was dead." What R U talking about, they recalled events that happened while their was brain dead. It isn't just 3 cases that U site. Do U eat a hamburger & 10 minutes later develop the memory, no you develop it as it happens, maybe parts r added, subtracted, or twisted as time goes on but the initial memory develops as it's happening, same has to be w/ the people who had an OBE while brain dead

[dbes02]

@dbes02 Looking forward to your response -- this is fun.

[miking193]

@dbes02 Their mind had to continue thinking to create memories of events going on while their brain was dead. When the brian makes a memory an electricl charge would have showed up on the EEG. However the EEG showed their was no charge. Thus the brain wasn't thinking but their mind was.

[dbes02]

@miking193 There is no evidence that thinking was occurring when the brain was dead.

In any case, you've already sunk your own argument by your observance that alcohol affects the brain and affects memory, ipso facto the brain is necessary. This is just part of the overwhelming evidence that the mind is a product of the brain.

[miking193]

@dbes02 How dumb R U? RU just here to waste my time, I don't think UR serious anymore, but purposely trying to waste my time. I've addressed the alcohol pt earlier. Alcohol impairs part of the brain, in an OBE no part of the brain is working, (hypothetically necessary for the mind to fully separate from the brain, it doesn't apply to partial breaks). I already explained how their ability to remember events while being brain dead is the evidence their mind was working w/ ou the brain.

[dbes02]

@miking193 No you haven't addressed the alcohol issue -- it sinks your position. There is no evidence that what are referred to as OBEs involve the mind leaving the brain. There is no evidence that memories are formed when the brain is not working -- where is it? Point me to the case that shows it.

You can continue with your personal insults if you want... but it's not a good idea for you to go using the term "fruitloop" when you are making such nonsense claims.

[miking193]

@miking193 thus if their memories had to develop as the events were happening, something other then their brain had to be making them, because if their brain was making them, the EEG would've picked up electricity & they didn't.I'm getting tired of reexplaining myself to someone who isn't even humble about the mistakes they make as I lay them out. Do more research, stop talking, do more reading & listening. Even if the cameras didn't work U'd still have the med staff, look for the cameras though

[miking193]

@miking193 thus if their memories had to develop as the events were happening, something other then their brain had to be making them, because if their brain was making them, the EEG would've picked up electricity & they didn't.I'm getting tired of reexplaining myself to someone who isn't even humble about the mistakes they make as I lay them out. Do more research, stop talking, do more reading & listening. Even if the cameras didn't work U'd still have the med staff, look for the cameras though

[dbes02]

@miking193 You mean there are more than the 3 fraudulent cases I site? When i eat a hamburger I am conscious -- show me where someone had one unconscious. Still waiting for the case with the camera, the verified detailed memories and a scientifically controlled study. Your references don't have them.

I have researched it -- claims of the mind working during brain death are all nonsense. Even you admitted that if the brain is affected, memory formation is affected. Thanks for your time.

[miking193]

@dbes02 we're not dependent on the hardware of the brain to think. Our minds mat get connected to other hardware, "following this analogy get absorbed by God's hardware", the second our brain fails. "Hallucinations will occur when the brain is shutting down" Their brain was not shutting down, no electricity means, the brain isn't functioning, not shutting down, it's off. These patients developed memories well past the EEG showing any sign of activity so your statement is 100% faulty & false.

[dbes02]

@miking193 To make it crystal clear for you -- seeing you somehow missed the implication of your own claims -- if alcohol damages the brain hardware, the brain dying is just a slightly greater amount of damage!

This is why your argument fails, and why my earlier questions were so damning for you.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "if alcohol damages the brain hardware, the brain dying is just a slightly greater amount of damage" R U on drugs, or just naturally stupid? I never claimed to the degree your hardware breaks, the more you get in touch with your spiritual side, because that's what you comment begs. My claim was were bound to this brain until the moment of death, and then the mind software is released. For some reason these people, were sent back to this world, to their brain.

[dbes02]

@miking193 So it seems that you are indeed naturally stupid - you claimed that alcohol affecting memory (showing the dependency on the hardware). So it follows that a non-functioning brain can;t make any memories. QED. Or maybe you are on drugs, or possibly a lunatic, with your latest fairy tale about "God's hardware". Not much use taking an irrational concept and then trying to support it with another irrational concept.

[dbes02]

@dbes02 To illustrate: maria's shoe - shown that could easily have been observed where it was, could have been seen or heard about at some other time, so many natural explanations it's embarrassing. Abysmal failure. The man with the dentures -- was he ever interviewed? No, it's all hearsay, and not verified that he was unconscioius at the time. Fail. And the Pam Reynolds case? Assessment of the sequence easily shows the experiences away from the brain death. Fail again, and again, and again

[miking193]

@dbes02 I love that someone who, displays an inabiltiy to absorb new information, is calling me stupid. I'd be embarrassed if you said I was intelligent.

[dbes02]

@miking193 I love that someone who, displays an inability to critically examine evidence is calling me stupid. You have no risk that I would say you were intelligent -- I'll save you the embarassment.

(Iif you don't like terms such as "naturally stupid" being thrown back at you then don't use it in the first place -- you just show yourself as a hypocrite.)

[miking193]

@dbes02 It's not hypocritical 4 me, to evaluate R interaction, access how UR unable to learn, how U remain to B proud of your faulty ideas & 4 me to call that continued act stupid. Look you are an idiot, you have provided nothing of value & instead of learning you continue to stay in the same simpleton paradigm. I have nothing further to say to someone who wants to be a fruitloop. Say what ever you want, I'm not responding to you, & if anyone cares to know why, they can read are previous chats

[miking193]

@dbes02 You made a lot of assertions, not arguments, I'm busy working on other videos. I already provided you with 1 comment addressing your assertions & their flaws. Not only that, your misconceptions were covered in the vid, if U don't have anything intelligent to say I will ignore, I'm tired of lazy commenters, who ask for information already covered in the video or description box. We did another video called "Did God create Man, or did Man create GOd, Part 1 OBE. Same topic more info.

[dbes02]

Only verifiable evidence is allowed – not anecdotal, or what someone thinks happened – and not selective (capitalising on guess and chance). Personal testimony counts for nought too. You need a properly-controlled study, intentionally putting people to death and resuscitating. And why would I care if you ignored me?

And yes, humans made gods – 1000s of them, each as irrational as the next. You’d commit a pernicious special pleading fallacy to deny all but your one magic man in the sky.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "So expect more comments like mine." U clearly don't think much before U type. I already told U I get shallow thinkers like U, who post up on my videos & who get progressively more deseparte as the inner exchange goes on & their paradigm is shaken. I did offer empiricle info, it was observed these patients were brain dead (brain can't make memories), they came back w/ perfect recollection of memories of complex patters "surgeries" that R verified by either the med staff or cameras,

[dbes02]

@miking193 Yes they were brain dead and there is no evidence that what they experienced was duirng the time they were dead. Your "empirical evidence" sinks.

You can keep going with your red herrings about desperation and shaken paradigms. Useless comments. I love the way you slither into hyperbole about PERFECT recollection. Maybe they counted the rivets on the operating table, and how many times the electric saw rotated.

PS Don't try to go through the ceiling - you''ll hurt your head.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "there is no evidence that what they experienced was duirng the time they were dead. Your "empirical evidence" sinks." You are not being honest with yourself. The evidence that they empirical evidence that they experienced conscious memory while being dead is the fact that their version of events that happened in the room, matches that of either video or the med staff. Memories are impossible to make with out electrical activity & there was non in these patients.

[dbes02]

I ride my steed of rationality. And still it ‘s not verified that the memories were formed during death. Whether it's the fraud around Maria’s shoe (whih was easily accountable for), the man with the dentures (which was hearsay anyway), or Pam’s drill (with incorrect details).

Even if taken at face value it never rises above a ‘selection attention’ fallacy, in which the pool of obviously incorrect memories (before investigation to redress sloppy research is even required!) sinks your position.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "still it ‘s not verified that the memories were formed during death." There were many recorded accounts of people, not just Maria, the dentures guy, & Pam being able to recall events that happened accurately, while they were brain dead. Recalling past events accurately is proof they made memories while their brain was dead. "I ride my steed of rationality" Saying you're rational doesn't make you rational, I could say I am 10 feet tall & it doesn't make it so.

[dbes02]

@miking193 Exactly, it's not verified that the memories were during brain death. In fact the detailed assessemnts to redress the sloppy, fraudulent research shows the ways in which the memories could be made -- when they were conscious. But then, some of the "memories" were incorrect.

Indeed, rationality is based on the evidence. The same way that we could measure whether or not you are 10 feet tall.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "Exactly, it's not verified that the memories were during brain death." How much more clear could it be, the EEG showed no electrical activity & they recalled events that happened during that time, which indicates if not proves they made the memories while being brain dead.

[miking193]

@dbes02 "This is Y your argument fails & Y my earlier questions were so damning 4U" Well now I have answered your question & the reason for the delay is this is 1 of 500 some vids we have & we're in the process of making a new series & I have more important things to do then respond to someone whose questions R answered in the video alone. UR going backwards asserting hubris & silliness. If U continue down this path, I won't make the time to deal w/ arrogance & ignorance combined in 1 person.

[fdasherv]

I'm sorry but are you claiming this happened to you? Because, respectfully, you know nothing about clinical death and resuscitation. All the "facts" presented are wrong, the stories hearsay, and imagined conspiratorial suppression gratuitous. If you just want to preach, try doing it honestly and without the baffling bullshit.

[miking193]

@fdasherv Wow I hear a lot of declarations from you such as "All the "facts" presented are wrong, the stories hearsay, and imagined conspiratorial suppression gratuitous." Without any supporting evidence or reasons. Take for example I said the opposite all the fact were right etc.. That'd by a lousy argument, now extrapolate that thought to your comment.

[gamesmaster35]

idle chit chat and conversation."So and so you were dead! Clara was so worried about you.She cried by your bedside for hours sobbing.

You: Oh yeah I remember seeing that.She was by my side calling my name begging me to come back(not a uncommon thing when someone dies)

.

Clara:How did you know that?You were dead.

You: I saw it all blah blah blah...(another amazing out of body experience is born)

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 ridicoulous UR off in fantsy land. I gave a clear explanation as to how the people were dead empiracly verified. They were hooked up to pulse & respiratory monitors that showed empiracly they had no pulse or breaths, thus they were legally dead. On top of that they were hooked up to an EEG which shown no electrical activity. Their detailed accounts of what went on in the room, medical procedures, (complex patterns the average Joe doesn't know) were verified by the medical staff.

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 so I'm just suppose to take your word for it?But I did some checking on it from the time I posted they have been able to duplicate some of those same out of body effects in the lab by stimulating certain parts of the brain.Feeling of being outside of ones body was reported in these tests for example.Feeling of weightlessness that kind of thing.But it's done by your brain.Answer me this if you are seperate from your brain why is it when it's damaged in certain areas you are unable ..

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 OMG we covered this point as well, Michael Shermer did a whole special on it, the point you brought up is the exact flaw we made this video to fix. Please if you have any more comments, try to cover things we didn't already disprove in the video. Basically you have now brought up two flawed arguments we already covered in the video, & why they are unintelligible.

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 If I were you, I'd slow down, study this, & wait to respond, becasue I think if rush back into responding you're not going to be open minded to the info out there, that goes against your preconceived notions. What's more imporant you responding quickly or taking the time to get to the truth, & responding correctly.

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 to function the same.You get damaged in the speech center of your brain you are unable or find it difficult to speak for example.People who have strokes for example act totally different , speech and motor skills disrupted or drastically slowed.If you were seperate from your brain wouldn't you be able to function just find even after it was damaged?

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 Did you watch the video, because I cover this argument. Sure a partial damage to the brain can change motor skills, no argument. It's when someone dies, their body is dead, no breathing no pulse, no electrical activity that's when the soul or consciousness leaves their physical body when it's dead, not when they have a non fatal injury.

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 why only that extreme?I'm saying it seems kind of redundant to have a physical object that can be damaged that controls these various functions and yet you also have this spirtual component that can't be harmed physically yet we don't see this come into play when someone receives a critical injury to the brain.You would think that the consciousness could carry on just fine without the brain.Why is there even a brain to begin with if you can exist without a body at all?makes no sense

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 Maybe your looking at it the wrong way, us have a physical body may limits us. That's Y in our videos we refer to it as a body cage. My view is sure imparied functioning if our physical body (including brain) is changed while we're alive, but when we die, we are set free from the cage. Your comment misses that the body is part of the curse, it's corruptable because of the fall of man, but we're all going to live forever post when this cage is discarded.

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 This is part of this worldview that I simply don't like.The body isn't something you should abhor or hold in contempt.Man isn't some contemptable creature born evil and wicked.We can become that through our choices and actions but we are not inherently evil.This worldview that your body is nothing but a cage, that all the important things happen when you are dead rendering the life you live now utterly meaningless.That's essentially what you're alluding to but trying hard not to say.

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 whether U like something or not, has no bearing on it's validity other then is it true that U like it. If U watch our videos we make it real clear this world is fallen, & most people are deceived, we don't dance around that subject & we give a lot of evidence to support it. Life is not meaningless, it is very important how you choose to live, & what road you walk down. If this life didn't have meaning Y would God have us go through it, Y not instantly put us in heaven or hell

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 the worldview you choose to carry affects the decisions you make as well as how you view the world around you.If I think people all people are inherently evil why would I trust or love anyone?If I think all the best things happen in heaven and I'm surrounded by loathsome evil things why would I treat anyone with kindness or respect?I agree life isn't meaningless but I don't see how YOU came to that conclusion with the outlook that you have on things.

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 we explain it in more depth in the video called athesit can you spot the snake. The short answer is if I am not loving towards U or if I don't treat you the way I want to be treated God won't treat me lovingly you reap what you sow in this life or the next. It might be at first seem pestimistic to view people as selfish & bad, but all the evidence I have found makes that view realistic that most people are unkind, but I don't let that effect my mood which is my choice I chose love

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 Yes you did mention it..You claimed that they mentioned grandiose things like angels and demons and mushrooms but the part you wanted to focus on was the more mundane things like being out of your body but still being you.(This was reproduced in lab conditions by stimulating certain parts of the brain).Feeling of weightlessness (he described it as being able to float through the roof (also reproduced).You only want to draw one conclusion and I'm saying there are other mundane answers

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 TO me it seems you so quick to want to prove your preconceived ideas right that, your closed minded to the evidence being shown to you. Which is a fairly common practice, you mentioned it yourself in our little PM. It's not important the feeling of weightlessness, what is imporant is the detailed memories they have of complicated procedures that happened while they were dead. If it was like a brain injury you'd expect imparied fuzzy memories at best, not detailed & accurate.

[gamesmaster35]

The reason why they don't really count it is because it can't be reproduced.You would be going on people's here say.As far as other possible reasons 1) Even if turned the other way I can still know who entered a room (especially if they are a relative or close friend) from the sound of their voice. 2)There are times when people are close to death but not really dead but are misdiagnosed.This happens less now a days but still does occur sometimes 3)Friends and family feel in the blanks through..

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 RU blind. It's not relatives coming in, it's other medical staff who they never meet before in their life. They're dead no pulse, no breathing, no electrical activity. This phenomon has been reproduced in hospitals all over the world, but no we can't kill people to test it. These articles & reports of it, get printed in medical journals, not christian blogs. I say you're blind because you didn't care what the facts were, your mind was already made up.

[gamesmaster35]

@miking193 I'm not blind but I just don't take people's word on things simply because they "said " that's what happened.Point me to one of these medical journals.I would like to see it for myself.

[miking193]

@gamesmaster35 Did you look in the description box??? They some there, & also more in the description box in the video we did called, Evidendece for God {{{Did God create Man or man create God))) part 1

[luettem]

If you want to know what happens after death, Watch Ian McCormack on you tube, totally scriptural.

[TheWord2You]

Right on.....How can you explain peoples spirits going into the waiting room or cafe only to be revived and repeat conversations that took place !!!!! This proves that there is life after death.

[Grynomite44]

@TheWord2You I believe in life after death too :D

Nevermind what the skeptics say, this stuff is real,

and there is so musch evidence to back it all up!