BiggsReport Response... PART 1

[OurOnlyPlanB]

ALL HAIL SCIENCE!!!

[quinn2469]

Abiogenesis has already been demonstrated last month. Google John Sutherland+abiogenesis confirmed.

[bimblinghill]

I would advise against breaking out the champagne just yet.. but yeah, I have high hopes that we may soon have yet another implement to spank creationists with!

[ShwaNerd]

How can you have an "evolutionist" worldview? I accept evolution, but that has NOTHING to do with my everyday life, how I make decisions etc.

Walking down the road, and seeing a car accident with injured people all splattered on the road, I don't keep walking and say "well since I accept evolution these people deserve to die since they weren't fit to survive a car crash". WHAT THE FUCK?

Evolution may be true, but as Richard Dawkins says, I'm strongly against it for our species!

[BiggsReport]

Good for you. I see you accept my basic premise then. You also understand the moral implications of what I call for lack of a better tern "evolutionism". You must of course accept a certain logical gap between your concept of morals and your explanation for the origin of life, but your personal beliefs are not my particular concern. I am interested in the effect on society of large numbers of people who cannot make the moral leap you do though.

[ShwaNerd]

Well when so many people have such a poor understanding of evolution, AND they don't understand that it has no bearing on what our morality SHOULD be. That's one of the most important things creationists miss. People who accept evolution realize that our species is remarkable, since we are one of the only species that have so far risen ABOVE the simple survival instincts of evolution, we have much more complex emotions and morality which benefits our species (and other species).

[spikesmth]

This is why you're wrong.

1. Accepting evolution as the foundation of life & it's diversity has nothing to do with moral calculation or ethical standards.

2. Your only argument in the positive for your title was Jefferson's Deist interpretation of human rights. But, Deism is NOT creationism and creationism makes no claims about government or morality.

Libertarianism requires 'perfect information' in order to work, creationism requires deception and misinformation. I'll wait for vid response tho.

[BiggsReport]

Your argument is that there is no argument. You say that an theory that people base their understanding of their own origin on has no political ramifications. That is completely absurd. All belief systems of any kind have moral and political ramifications.

As for a video response; don't you have a "part 2" that you want to post before I put up a response?

[FSAthe1st]

The Theory of Evolution is NOT prescriptive. It does NOT set down any rules about what a given species is supposed to do. It is DESCRIPTIVE. It Describes an OBSERVATION that species more adapted to a given environment will out-compete a species that is less adapted. This is an observation, not a demand. You conflate it with social darwinism, which is not only incorrect, but thoroughly dishonest.

[FSAthe1st]

"That is completely absurd."

Argument from personal incredulity.

"All belief systems of any kind have moral and political ramifications."

This is based on the fallacious claim that a scientific theory like Evolution is a belief system of some kind.

[FSAthe1st]

But then again it's not surprising that someone as dishonest and insane as you (and yes, I call you insane because you believe something as ridiculous as a jewish zombie waking up from the dead and bodily ascending into heaven, that God sacrifices himself to himself in order to appease himself for a "crime" that someone many generations dead "committed" - and please don't get me started on the concept of "sin" - because of a talking snake and a piece of fruit) would say such a thing.

[NearVSMello]

Einstein proved the theory of relativity by observing the slight warp starlight tends to go through as it nears our sun during a solar eclipse.

[spikesmth]

Actually gravity affecting light is General Relativity. Special relativity has to do with time dilation and length contraction that occurs when things reach a significant v^2/c^2 ratio. Check out the link if you want to know more. Relativity is something I know pretty well mathematically/philosophically­.

[FSAthe1st]

You should tell this "Biggs" that he needs to go look up the Equivocation fallacy. His "only a theory" stance is ridiculous.

Someone also needs to tell this character that proof are restricted to mathematics, and that using a strawman of evolution, then denying he did so, is asinine.

[bimblinghill]

I'm sure he knows, and that he is being deliberately disingenuous.

[spikesmth]

I would but I don't know all the fancy names of the arguments. I'm just trying to mock him with a hybrid serious/pwnage. I know I used some fallacies... but he presents himself as credible when a child could comprehend his bitchassness.

[bimblinghill]

spike: I get you mate, personally I like your presentation style, and you are clearly a smart chap. You illustrate the principles in common language, and there is nothing wrng with that. Biggs, on the other hand is a shill in a sharp suit, hiding behind his rhetorical techniques.

[TheBlueDuckMOE]

"way too seriously"

At least you conceded at the beginning. Seriously spike, I'm on your side but saying things like this aren't helping your cause.

[roentgen571]

It surprises me to see these guys argue against evolution or for creationism on the basis of the ramifications of those theories. Whether evolution has a tendency to lead towards Nazism or not has nothing to do with how TRUE it is. Is this guy seriously saying that we should believe in creationism even if it's false, simply because he doesn't like the social outcome of the alternative?

[BiggsReport]

Why don't you watch the video. I don't say that at all. I personally don't care what you believe. I do think that beliefs have political ramifications since they impact the choices you make and the policies you are willing to support or allow. I think it is interesting to understand what the political consequences of belief systems are.

Should I not explore moral ramifications of ideas because you have declared the issue to be closed to all debate?

[roentgen571]

I did watch the video, and I don't see where I'm missing your point. I think you've missed mine, however--the "moral ramifications" of scientific theories are irrelevant to the truth of those ideas, no matter how you "explore" them. You can either deal with them as they are, on their own terms, or you can bury your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist.

[roentgen571]

Evolution is the scientific explanation for the diversity of life on the earth. It's as robust and well-supported as the heliocentric model of the solar system. There's nothing about the theory that requires any sort of human action, any sort of policy advocacy, or any of that. It's quite simply a strawman argument to claim that belief in evolution leads to nazisim or whatever bullshit that was.

[roentgen571]

Now that I think about it, they were saying the same sorts of things in Galileo's day--thinking the earth isn't the center of the universe debases humanity as God's creation and will lead to all sorts of terrible stuff. Somehow we've managed to survive without sinking into a morass of debauchery.