Re: "Atari ST versus Amiga": Phaleon Giga Demo

[stunthumb]

Addendum...

The ST and Amiga were great machines, really if you had either of these then you would probably just have been glad.

The Amiga had great 2D features, blitter, border removal, decent colour palette. And the ST was slightly faster, so although 2D kinda sucked in most games, 3D games were smoother. It's not as if there was a lot in it, maybe <1mhz, and the ST probably had a slight 3D advantage with a smaller screen memory requirement. We defended the machine we owned, that's all.

[BaronCalisto]

@stunthumb Correction. Early ST Vector games were slightly faster, but as programmers got to grips with the Amiga, they used the blitter to draw polygons and fill them, and I can assure you, it was quicker at doing that than the 8Mhz processor in the ST!

[stunthumb]

@BaronCalisto Yeah, lucky gits and your blitters :D. It was sad really, how the STE had much improved graphics hardware, but it was still a little late. The Amiga at least had an extended life, and people pushing its hardware.

I remember just getting to grips with the STE blitter and sound when ST Format was winding down, if only the ST had that hardware from the start.

[stunthumb]

I wish people wouldn't compare Shadow of the Beast on ST and Amiga - the ST version was terrible, a shaved monkey could write better parallax scrolling. But all of Psygnosis' games were tripe on the ST, with the exception of Lemmings.

This demo clearly shows that the ST could have done a much better job of Beast, which is good, but it would be nice to see some comparisons on Bitmap Bros games, or arcade conversions (Rainbow Islands etc). Comparison vids tend to be biased IMO.

[zarjesve2]

@petsasjim1

it is SUPER that you write all in CAPITAL LETTERS so we can easily skip your comments... ;)

[MrFlibble2011]

This is pretty good! I had an ST then upgraded to the Amiga, but I always liked to see how close the Atari coders could get to the more powerful machine..

Thanks to ebay we can now own both! :D

[NexussVI]

@wadeuss I agree. Good Commodore 64 had better sound. I don't like ST series because they had awful sound in games. Amiga was the best machine in that times.

[JasperAbraxxious]

@wadeuss - As an Amiga fan, I know where you are coming from, but I think you have to look at it in context.

The Amiga has a heap of custom hardware designed to scroll (in 8 directions), overlay, blitter, dma sound etc. The poor ole' ST has none of this.

This demo shows what VERY clever programming can achieve. Whilst the gfx and sound are not as good as the original game on the Amiga, is it still an amazing achievement,

The coders were obviously VERY talented. Good work Atari.

[VincentGreece]

I love all the retro machines, but amiga was superior

[koolkitty8989]

Even with the choppy graphics, if the original ST version had had music of this caliber (along with tactful use of SFX -rather than just SFX or MUSIC), that would have made a big difference. (hell, with that simplistic/choppy scrolling, they should have had enough CPU time left to add 4-bit PSG samples for the PCM SFX and maybe some drum samples)

Even without better code, they could have compromised more on the parallax (more so the dual-layer than the line scrolling) to make a smoother game.

[petsasjim1]

AS AN X-OWNER OF ATARI STE AND AMIGA,I WAS FAN OF BOTH THE MACHINES,I SAY THIS:OF COURSE I HAD THIS GIGA DEMO WITH SHADOW OF THE BEAST INTRO DEMO BUT IF YOU ADD SPRITES AND MORE PARALLAX SCROLLING (THE CLOUDS,THE MOUNTAINS) AND BRIGHTER COLORS AND MUSIC .MOD NOT CHIP MUSIC (EATS MORE RAM) AND MORE COLORS (SOFTWARE TRICKS) BUT I REPEAT MOSTLY IF YOU ADD GAME SPRITES THEONLYMACHINETHATCOULDHAND VERYWELLTHOSETHINGS IS A 1MBSTE.WITH LITTLE LESS PARALLAX SCROLLING BUT STILL NEARLY 90% OF AN AMIGA.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 as an owner of both i would disagree that the ste was 90% of the amiga, what the atari lost in its custom blitter grahics chipset (that probably is about 90% of a the capablities of an A500) it made up for with more efficent memory.

this can be seen in some racing games like microprose grandprix, where the st version runs more fluid.

i feel amiga game superiority is over stated.

i find the main difference is in scrolling platformers where the amiga has better graphics & sound.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 another reason is the legal dispute between atari, when commadore bought amiga from under ataris nose and returned its loan.

atari then never managed to put a blitter enabled consumer machine till 89, by which time amiga had 2 years worth of strong sales.

atari had a major problem they had 4 years worth of very strong st sales, and new games couldnt and use the power of the new ste chipset and negate the majority of the market that owned stf and stfm's with atari losing market share

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac

1)I LOVE AND I OWNED ATARI ST STE AND AMIGA

2)ATARI HAS HUGE GREAT SCENE GAMES DEMOS UTILS

3)BLITTER ISNT THE ONLY AMIGA ADVANTAGE (BLITTER COPPER, DMA, PAULA, FAT AGNUS,EHB (X2,X4,X6 32 64 128 (ELFMANIA,RUFF N TUMBLE) 256

(UNIVERSE) (HARDWARE),DENISE,HAM

4)ATARI ST HAS ITS OWN PROFILE (JACKINTOSH,

MACINTOSH KILLER) AND HISTORY.BUT TRAMIEL WAS

THE WRONG MAN FOR THE ATARI'S 16BIT COMPUTER

GENERATION.JAY MINER WENT AWAY FROM ATARI AND

TRAMIEL THOUGHT THAT COULD BUY (CONTINUES)

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 its not all about reading off a superiour tech sheet either.

look at the Atari jaguar on paper its a power house that couldnt compete against a vastly technicaslly inferior snes.

a zx spectrum didnt have a proper sound proccesor or graphics unit but look at how it out performed the superior bbc micro in games.

amiga cd 32bit consule the first cd 32bit consule, failing against the technically inferior snes.

intellivision a superior 16 bit processor, but eclipsed by the atari 2600

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac I SAY BEST 16 BIT COMPUTER GAMING IS AMIGA 500,I SAY BEST 16 BIT COMPUTER GAMING HARDWARE IS AMIGA 500 I SAID AND EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY I DONT CARE ABOUT 3D EARLY GAMES, AND YOU SAID ARCHIMEDES 3D GAMES ARE BETTER.I TALK ABOUT 16 BIT 2D GAMING AND YOU PUT IN THE TABLE ARCHIMEDES 32BIT RISC.I TALK ABOUT 2D GAMES.THATS THE "GENERATION" THE "2D" NOT 3D AND EVEN 32 BIT RISC ARCHIMEDES IN 2D GAMES AND NO HARDWARE BIG DEAL ACCELERATION IS NOTHING FOR AMIGA 500.

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac AMIGA 500 IS SUPERIOR TO

ARCHIMEDES IN 2D GAMES.AND AGAIN ATARI STE IS

SERVANT TO ATARI ST(F)(FM) AND AN AMIGA QUITE

GOOD IMITATOR.AND AMIGA 500+ (INCOMPATIBILITIES)

A600 AND A1200 EVEN WITH ACCELERATORS AND

TOWERS IS AMIGA 500 SERVANTS.NOT ORIGINAL

MACHINES.THE AMIGA OCS IS THE INSPIRATION.

THE BEST 16BIT HARDWARE INSPIRATION IS AMIGA

500.THIS TIME WE TALK ABOUT THE CHIPS AND FOR

THE SCENE.THE BEST 32BIT HARDWARE INSPIRATION IS ATARI FALCON.

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac WE TALK ABOUT THE CHIPS NOT THE

SCENE.ALTHOUGH ATARI STE,A500+A600 ETC

MACHINES HAD NO PRIZES.

I ACCEPT THE APOLOGISE FOR THE "FANBOY"

THESE ARE WHAT I BELIEVE AND THESE ARE LAST

WORDS FROM ME FOR THAT

VIDEO.THANKS FOR TALKING.CLOSED.________

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 it feels like you believe, im trying to state some kind of superiourity of st hardware over amiga, which i definetly am not.

i only mentioned archemidies to state all hardware have different advantages, but it was yourself that mentioned its 3d capablities, not me.

(i was thinking more the advantage of risc)

but i must thank you, despite our different viewpoints, you have been courtious never rube and very factual.

this is the last thing i'll post.

and thank you for the debate

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac AMIGA INC FOR A PIECE OF BREAD.BUT COMMODORE AT THIS TIME WAS CLEVER ENOUGH TO BUY IT AT A RIGHT PRICE 5)ATARI STE IS A AN IMITATION OF AMIGA 6)ALL THE MAGAZINES SAID FOR THE STE:TOO LITTLE,TOO LATE AND THAT WAS RIGHT.ATARI STE DONT NEEDS AMIGA'S BLITTER IT NEEDS AN AUTHENTIC NEW ATARI STE MOBO. 7)MOST PORTS FOR STE FROM AMIGA IS BAD.SLEEPWALKER HAS NO BACKROUNDS ON STE BUT ON AMIGA HAS BACKROUNDS 8)EVEN WITH THE FAKE 50 KHZ ATARI STE SOUND PAULA IS STILL THE BEST (CONTINUES)

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac

9)ONLY ATARI FALCON HAS BEST AUDIO QUALITY CHIP (16 BIT DSP) NOT ATARI STE

10)DO YOU KNOW THE WORD DMA? ITS DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS.DONT STAY IN CHIPS.PLEASE LEARN MORE WHAT "DMA" AMIGA WAS (DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS).ALL CHIPS COMMUNICATED WITH MEMORY WITHOUT THE USE OF 68000.THIS GAVE THE AMIGA THE SMOOTHEST AND FASTEST 16BIT

SCROLLING IN THE COMPUTERS OF ITS TIME NOT THE BLITTER.

11)FOR ME ATARI ST STF STFM AMIGA 500 AND ATARI

FALCON,ITS THE (R)EVOLUTION,ITS THE HISTORY OF (CONTINUES)

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac THE SEASON SCENE.(ALL THE OTHERS ARE

SERVANTS) (A500+,ATARI STE A600 A1200) EVEN THE

ACORN ARCHIMEDES WAS GOOD ONLY IN 3D (RISC).IN 2D WAS NOT THE LEADER.

12)DONT SAY FOR microprose grandprix WE TALK FOR

THE 2D.ATARI ST=8 MHZ A500=7,09 MHZ SO ATARI HAS

LITTLE BETTER PERFORMANCE.I PREFER VROOM

ALSO IN ATARI.3D WORLD OF GAMES EXCEPT A VERY

FEW GAMES (LIKE VROOM AND STUNT CAR RACER)

ARE NOT BEAUTIFULL FOR THE EYE TILL 3DO,SATURN AND PSX.

(CONTINUES)

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 archemidies was only good at 3d, not as good at 2d.

what about better cpu performance a far more effeicent machine,

real amiga users do this all the time extreme fanboy my machine is superiour.

superiour for what.

graphics chipset.?.

as you say the archemides was far better at 3d,

if the amiga was really better at handling memory, and had superior 2d graphics processor

why would a 0.91mhz difference make a notable difference in 2d games like micropose grandprix?

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 My argument is these computers where all revolutionary in some way.

& should be enjoy for what they are without the fanboyism .

for every fault you can find in the spesification or real world performance or potential capablities of a rival computer.

they can find the same in yours.

so why be a fan boy in the first place.

enjoy what you have for what it is.

all my posts have never said the amiga was inferiour.

and as ban owner of both still, i know they're truely equals

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 % increase in cpu speed in an atari is aprox 12.5% which wouldnt be near that in real life, but if your claiming a vastly superiour 2d graphical performance and far better memory handling in amiga .

on that basis there shouldn't still be a performance increase in a game like micropose grandprix.

the original st was designed to handle memory better to get over its lack off a blitter and ran the same boinging ball and waterfall demo's as the amiga 1000 at lower price point

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac 13)AND YES ,SCROLLING PLATFORMERS,BEATERS,SHOOTERS AND MUCH MORE

IS THE HEART OF THE GAME.PERSONALLY I DISLIKE STRATEGY AND VERY OLD SIMULATION AND ALSO SOME BORED ADVENTURE (NOT ALL).I RESPECT ALSO BW 640X400 GAME SCENE OF ATARI ST COMPLETELY DIFERRENT KIND OF GAMES

14)I RESPECT ONLY ATARI ST AND ATARI FALCON THE REVOLUTIONARY MACHINES ALTHOUGH I HAD AN 1040 STE ALSO.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 sadly your assertion to amigas hardware supperiority over the amiga has never been commercialy tested, almost all game software minimum spesification is for a st f computer and never shown what the ste or the earlier blittter equiped mega st's could do.

off course there are other systems IN BOTH MACHINES that contribute to the graphics other than the blitter.

and i cant except the atari is a copy of the amiga, since the st went into development first.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 also the amiga 1000 wasn't a wedge style case was it,

atari released that style of casing long before the 500.

one thing is certain the amiga 1000 was a superiour computer to the original st, but they were competing at completely different price market.

the falcon was superiour to the amiga a1200

some time in the middle with the ste they were as good as each other.

pity my machine is superiour fanboyism, taints the argument of what were too extremely good computers.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 before you state the obvious. that jay miner had been developing the blitter chip set long before ataris loan, it was a project called lorraine, for a 16bit blitter games machine.

commadore didnt buy amiga for close to a year after atari thought jay miners work would make a better computer.

atari had to redesign a blitter chip from scratch after it lost its court case, delaying it being featured in the first higher level machine in 86

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 really the argument is because of amiga supposed graphics superiority ? which we've disproved with archemides 3d performance and the extra speed in some atari games, really it cant think off any real proper 3d title on the amiga anyway not until the A1200 where the falcon eclipsed the amiga anyway.

what about midi, built in psu, hardware reset switch, tos that can read dos disk hardware emulation, built in os.

facts the average st has over the amiga.

so does it make the st superior?

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 I'm say no it dosent make the st superior nor does better 3d capablities the archemidies has over both atari and amiga, make it superior.

they are different, people choose them for different reason.

the archemidies has graphical strengths over the amiga st.

as does the amiga and st over each other.

also many computers dont meet some aspect of their potential, atari it was legacy support ment few games needed more than a stf.

amiga could do midi like the st, but it wasnt as supported

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 the advantage of the amiga graphical chipset was scrolling smoothly in game

the advantages of the atari graphical chipset was in desktop publishing and the system as a whole is slightly faster in games that didnt really on fast scrolling.

also the falcon blitter is very similar to that in the ste, to keep legacy support with older st applications.

how can the falcon be regarded as superior to the a1200, but a very similar chip set in the ste be seen a inferiour to the ocs amiga 500

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1

Atari falcon had a similar yamaha sound chip to the atari ste and its blitter is set at 16mhz to retain compatablity with the ste,

Atari falcon used a 16mhz 68030, but it set on a 16bit data bus with a 24 address and cant use its 32bit burst mode again to keep compatablity with the Ste.

infact the ste is so good, with a memory upgrade, most falcon games and software will run.

so how can a Falcon be better than a A1200 but a STe isnt as good as a a500 ?

that just isnt logical

[CFalcon030]

@cant1rac Wikipedia atari falcon for you. BTW which falcon game will run on an STE? Very curious about that...

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 i run a great deal of falcon software, mainly music software that needs a memory upgraded ste minimum or a falcon to run, i have a 4mb ste, and i have never had a problem running software for the falcon. heres the games i know that are minimum requirements a ste or a falcon Alien Blast Dynabusters+ Obsession Sleepwalker Square Off Starball Street Fighter II Substation Team Zero 5 their is only a tiny % of atari software that wont run on a much lower specified stf series

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 i find once the memory has been upgraded in a ste, most thing's will run.

as far as i know there is that many programs for the falcon or tt that dosent have a ste with uprade ram a minimum of 1mb sometimes more as the minimum.

i know the conversions of wolfenstein 3d are even supposed to run on an upgraded ste.

but real idealy i'd like a falcon before i tried that.

because at the end off the day it is a more powerful machine.

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 i think my point was to emphasie that there was a lot of untapped power in the ste.

and that it was hampered by legacy support not its hardware.

4 years of st sales and cut priced stfm packages, making it harder for game producers to produce games using its upgrade blitter chip set and sound.

really if the falcon had lasted longer there would be software that wouldnt run on a ste, but i personally have not used any, off course anything needs the ct60 wont run

[CFalcon030]

@cant1rac You basically ran ST software that was falcon compatible. I can guarantee to you that not a single falcon game like llamazap or killing impact or Running will run on an STE. Not one, not a single one. I can guarantee to you that falcon specific applications, like Apex or ACE won't run on an STE. There are ST apps that are falcon enhanced and there are falcon only apps. Same is true for the ST and STE. STE only stuff won't run on an ST.

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 actually ive only heard of killing impact and never seen it (it maybe incompatable), fact is the falcon was out for less than a year till atari pulled its plug for the jaguar.

and most software released as you say "st software that was falcon compatabile" all falcon software is st compatabile, its a 50% increase in cpu speed or larger memory requirement, the extra hardware requirements that make it incompatable.

as i said i have a atari ste upgrade from a standard 512kb to 4mb

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 on a standard ste, you are perfectly correct the software would be incompatable and i'd have no chance off getting the software to run, since there is not enough memory.

[CFalcon030]

@cant1rac No, it will be incompatiblie for a whole lot of reasons and not the memory. Most falcon games require 4MB's of RAM. For example most falcon games run on 320x200 and 256 colours or true colour which the ste can't do. Also they use the DSP for either audio or graphics or both, which the STE doesn't have and various other stuff the STE doesn't have. They will also expect the videl instead of the shifter and a lot more.

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 yes thoughs are more evident in games, and i admitedly havent played thoughs titles you mentioned.

and i did say if the atari had survied more than from 92-93, there would be more incompatabile software, making greater use of the falcons extra hardware cpu speed and memory, presuming it had a decent market sales

but great effort were made to keep hardware combatablity ie the falcon couldnt use the 32bit capablity off its proccessor to keep compatablity with the st line

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 its getting away from my original point that the ste.

had much greater capablities than the stf series.

the fact that we will say for argument sake that some falcon software could be run, if the memory requirments were met.

i've not had problem with music production software that needs a 4mb memory upgrade to a standard ste.

this going away from the intention of my post that the ste was as good a computer as its equivellent amiga.

just legacy support stopped rather than hardware

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 the same can be said about the hardware in the falcon (more of a software problem with the ste), if atari had used the full potential of its proccesor and its burst model had rated it blitter above 16mhz.

it would have been a far far superiour machine.

if supported could have stood a far better chance against the pc and maybe even with a finacially failing commadore, and macs buisness taking a down turn been a very viable platform today

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 fact is both commadore and atari, made some awful mistakes, the A1000 was the most powerful system out in 85 and with multi tasking. the falcon was an amazing piece of hardware and atari never gave it any real support ditching it within a year for a consule that they never gave much developer support too.

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 as far as im conserned the Atari st and Amiga's are fantastic systems, each with there plus and minuses.

we should look less at which is better than the other,because thats a complete subjective element depending on your needs and look more at the different pluses each system was noted for:

A1200 used for graphics in babaylon 5.

Atari ste, and mega ste's as well as some falcons use within the music industry and by recording artist

[CFalcon030]

@cant1rac How is that related to what I said?

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 well it was never my intention posting on this to go into the differences between the falcon and the ste.

just state my belief the ste was as capable as the equivelent amiga.

and if you take all the plus and minuses of the atari line and amiga, there really isnt that great a difference between capablity of the two systems

[cant1rac]

@CFalcon030 i wouldnt try and run doom, quake etc on a ste though, theres no chance really, things like the extra capablities of a falcon leave's the ste in the dust even with a memory upgrade.

as well as using the ct60 and any other enhancement avilable to a standard 030 anyway.

really enjoyed your video and the discussion i had with petsasjim1

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac MY FRIEND,WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GAMES ATARI

ST IS THE FIRST COLOR WINDOWS SYSTEM,HAS

MIDI,YES BUILT IN PSU,SO WHAT?(BETTER EXT POWER

SUPPLY) FIRST ATARI ST MACHINES HADNT "ALL IN

ONE" POWER SUPPLY NOT MODULATOR NEITHER

FLOPPY DISK.ATARI ST=SIMPLE ATARI ST.ATARI

STF=FLOPPY.ATARI STFM=FLOPPY MODULATOR.SO

WHAT? RESET.SO WHAT? (POWERFULL CTRL ALT

DEL).BUILT IN POWER COFFEE MACHINE?LOL ARE

THESE REALLY HARDCORE ADVANTAGES?NAHHHHH!!!!

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac WHY DIDNT YOU SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEST

MULTITASKING AND THE MACHINE THAT HAD IT?

-1)HAVE YOU PLAYED PACMANIA PROJECT X ASSASSIN

ELFMANIA RUFF N TUMBLE.WHAT CAN I SAY.HAVE YOU

UNDERSTAND THE PERFECT POWER OF SMOOTHEST

SCROLLING IN THE WORLD?HAVE YOU UNDERSTAND

THAT STE PORTS IS WORST THAN AMIGA (LIKE

SLEEPWALKER I SAID IT!!!)

0)THE ATARI ST (AS A ADDON CHIP) AND STE BLITTER

ISNT A "FULL FEATURED BLITTER" (TOO LITTLE,TOO LATE).

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac 1)THE COMMODORE AMIGA IS THE FIRST MACHINE

WHICH USE A "FULL FUTURED" BLITTER

2)THE BLITTER IS ONLY ONE OF THE POWERS FOR

AMIGA (I SAID THOSE BEFORE)

3)WHY DIDNT YOU MENTION NOTHING ABOUT

DMA,DMA CHIPS AND DMA MULTITASKING?

1)LET ME TELL YOU SOME THINGS.

AMIGA WAS FIRST.JAY MINER IN 1982 MADE AMIGA "LORRAINE

PROTOTYPE" THE FIRST EVER AMIGA.BEFORE JAY

MINER WENT FROM ATARI HOPED THAT TRAMIELACCEPT LORRAINE PROTOTYPE AS THE NEW ATARI COMPUTER.HE LEFT THE LORRAINE

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac PROTOTYPE FOR A MONTH ONLY SO TRAMIEL AND PARTNAIRS

EXAMINED THIS MACHINE.TECHNICIANS EXAMINED

THE MACHINE BUT CANT UNDERSTAND FULLY ITS

ARCHITECTURE,THEY SEE 68000 AND THE CHIPS BUT

JAY MINER TOOK HIS AMIGA PROTOTYPE SOON SO

THEY TOOK SOME IDEAS BUT NOT COPIED ALL

MACHINE CAUSE WAS IN A HURRY.CONCLUSION AMIGA

WAS FIRST CREATED BUT ATARI ST FIRST RELEASE

BECAUSE AMIGA INC HAD THE PROBLEMS I TOLD

YESTERDAY WITH THE MONEY WITH THE TRAMIEL AND THEN BOUGHT FROM COMMODORE AND

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac THEN RELEASE THE MACHINE.AMIGA CREATED FIRST. 2)I AM NOT TOLD YOU FOR THE "ALL IN ONE" STYLE.I NEVER INTERESTED FOR THAT.ALL IN ONE ARE MOST 8-BIT GENERATION MACHINES TOO.WE TALK FOR THE INSIDE HARDWARE."BOXES" ARE ALWAYS "BOXES" TOWERS OR ALL IN ONE MACHINES 3)YES OF COURSE,ORIGINAL FALCON IS SUPERIOR FROM ORIGINAL A1200 YOU SAID NOTHING NEW.I SAID AGAIN AND AGAIN 3 MACHINES IS THE HISTORY,IS THE REVOLUTION ATARI ST,A500(ONLY),AND ATARI FALCON.ALL THE OTHER MACHINES

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac ARE USELESS ALTHOUGH I HAD AN 1040 STE AND A1200.A500 COULD DO AGA WITH EXTERNAL CARDS AND 68040 DOSNT NEED A1200.YOU UNDERSTAND? 4)3D GAMES ISNT THE POINT IN 1980'S GAMES.2 D IS THE POINT. GRAPHICS FOR THESE GAMES ARENT GOOD.1980'SGAMES IS 2D GENERATIONS.3D GAMES IS JUST A DREAM OF BADLOOKING GAMES EXCEPT FEW (ALREADY SAID THAT) DO YOU LIKE TEAM SUZUKI GRAPHICS? A MOTORCYCLE WITH 2 POLYGONS?NAHHHH!!!!!

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac 5)NEARLY 1 MHZ AHEAD ATARI IS ENOUGH TO OVERTAKE AMIGA IN ITS TIME,BUT I REPEAT THE "TIME" IS NOT 3D ITS 2D.THE 3D REVOLUTION HAS CAME FIVE YEARS LATER. 6)CUBASE EXISTS ON AMIGA AND HAS SUPPORTS MIDI CABLE OVER SERIAL OR PARALLEL PORT BUT ATARI ST IS WINNER I ADMIT IT. 6)AMIGA HAS THE BEST 2D HARDWARE GAME ARCHITECTURE ITS THE BEST MACHINE FOR ENTERTAINMENT.THE HARDWARE IS THE BEST. 7)ATARI ST IS BEST FOR SERIOUS JOBS,MUSICIANS ETC COMPANIES (CHEAP COMPUTER) BUT WHEN

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac CAMES "GAME TIME" NO I VOTE AMIGA.WHEN I WAS A KID I DONT WANT A MACHINE FOR SERIOUS JOB BUT FOR ENTERTAINMENT ALTHOUGH I HAD A 1040 STE.

7)THE EXTRA ATARISTE CHIPS TRY TO IMITATES AMIGA

ONCE AND FOR EVER.8)FALCON IS SUPERIOR FROM A1200 AND OF COURSE

STE (LAUGH) CAUSEA)SOUND (16BIT DSP) (NOT "SIMILAR" ATARI STE YM

8BIT NOT 8BIT PAULA)

B)CPU 68030 (NOT AMIGA 68020)(NOT 68000 ATARISTE)

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac C)THE BLITTER COULD BE THE SAME BUT WITH THE 68030 CPU POWER MULTIPLIES IT D)DO YOU KNOW VIDEL?YES THE POWERFULL VIDEL DO YOU COMPARE IT WITH VIDEO SHIFTER? NAHHHHH!!!!!!! SO FOR 68020 (A1200) (AND EVEN WORST FOR THE 68000 ATARI STE) HAS WORSE PERFORMANCE ANALOGICAL.I REMIND YOU.BLITTER WAS NOT THE ONLY POWER FROM AMIGA I SAID IT!!!!!!.COMPARE THE DENISE AND VIDEO SHIFTER AND TELL ME WHICH IS BETTER.COMPARE PAULA AND YM AND TELL ME WHICH IS BETTER.ATARI STE HAS COPPER?

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac NAHHHH!!!!ATARI STE HAS "ALL CHIP DMA"? NAHHH!!! (ONLY PARTIALLY IN SOUND) ATARI STE HAS FAT(ER) AGNUS?NAHHHH!!!! ATARI STE HAS HAM MODE 4096 COLORS? NAHHH!!! ATARI STE HAS READY VIDEO RAM (CHIP MEMORY)? (ALL DMA CHIPS GOES DIRECTLY TO CHIP RAM) (0.5,1 MB,2MB CHIP RAM IF YOU WANT)(I HAD AN AMIGA WITH CLICK CHIP TO FAST OR FAST TO CHIP TRAPDOOR MEMORY)NAHHHH!!!ONLY SYSTEM RAM (LIKE FAST OR SLOW RAM IN AMIGA 500)

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac ONLY FAKE SOFTWARE 32000 (POWERCHROME).ATARI STE HAS EHB? (EHB IS HARDWARE NOT SOFTWARE AMIGA 1000 HAS NOT EHB MODE IN ITS CHIPS) (64 COLORS) (LOTS OF GAMES) 2EHB (128 COLORS RUFF N TUMBLE ETC) 3EHB 256 COLORS (UNIVERSE ADVENTURE ETC) WHAT SPECIAL ATARI STE HAS?TELL ME. 9)ONE MORE TIME. I DONT CARE FOR 3D CAPABILITIES.I HATE EARLY 3D ZONE (FULL OF SQUARES) I LOVE LOVE LOVE 2D 1980'S GAME ZONE.THESE MACHINES ONLY FOR 2D.EVEN ARCHIMEDES BEST 3D GAMES (SIMULATIONS)

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac ARE BAD GRAPHICS IN "CONFUSING CHAOS WORLDS"(MERCENARIES TOTAL ECLIPSE ROBOCOP 3 AMIGA).YES,I AM 1ST PERSON GAME LOVER. YOU SAID : Atari falcon had a similar yamaha sound chip to the atari ste.YOU ARE BE KIDING. TIME TO KNOW THAT THE ATARI STE'S CHIP IN FALCON IS WITH A POWERFULL 16 BIT DSP CHIP.AND ISNT "SIMILAR".THEY ALL TOGETHER 1 16BIT CHIP. THE PROBLEM IS THE OS ISNT THE MACHINE THE MACHINE IS SUCCESFULLY WHEN IT IS A ENTERTAINMENT MACHINE.OK TIME FOR TOP MACHINES.

[petsasjim1]

@cant1rac

NOW THE TOP MACHINES A)UTILITIES 16 BIT:WINNER ATARI ST (CALAMUS

CAMPUS CUBASE ETC) (LEAVE STE ALONE)

B)DEMOS 16 BIT WINNER:EQUAL(HUGE SCENES)

C)GAMES 16 BIT WINNER:AMIGA

YEPPP!!!!!!

FAN BOY IS A MAN WHO OWNS ONE MACHINE AND SAYS : MY COMPUTER IS BETTER

ME,PETSASJIM HAD AND HAVE FROM THE PONG CONSOLE TILL TODAY ALL THE FAMOUS MACHINES AND WII AND XBOX 360 AND PS3.I HAVE THE BEST MACHINES FROM 1980 SO I CAN TALK WITHOUT ANYONE TOLD ME THAT I WAS FANBOY.I HOPE YOU UNDERSTANDTHAT!!!!

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 whhoo whoo! i never stated the atari blitter was superiour. i never said the atari was better overall for games (just the ste never met half its potential) i was comparing the average amiga 500 500+ with the avareage stfm or ste. not an amiga 1000 with an atari falcon.

i wasnt comparing them for their capablities purely as a games machine at all, that you seam to be.

but comparing the whole system.

i said one aspect the amiga was capable but didnt succed was in midi.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 i also said the lorraine ie an amiga was created first by jay miner in hi toro which became amiga, but the first design team that saw the potential as a computer system was atari almost a year before before commadore bought amiga and did the same thing and the first company that used that wedge style casing was atrai not amiga.

because you claimed atari was a poor copy of the amiga.

and i never claimed the original st's hardware was superiour to the a1000 because its not

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 i made it quite clear my opinion is the 4 big 16/24 bit systems of the day amiga, apple, atari and archemidies, as systems are equally as good as each other, but have greater strengths and weaknesses.

and in the end of the day they balance out.

its what your needs are that determines what system is the best for you.

im not stating my computer is better, because i own all except the apple.

i'm saying they're as good as each other, but for different reasons.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 you state yourself amiga as a superiour 2d gamer correct, but you also state correctly an archemidies is superiour to the amiga for 3d games.

ok so you've proved my point, you prefer 2d games and the amiga is the best machine with the best 2d capablities for you.

if you prefered 3d, the archemidies is better.

and if you add non game application like desktop publishing and music the atari and apple become the better systems.

there is far more than game performance!

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 1 major fact the first atari st was designed to compete with the apple range of computers, not the amiga at a much lower price range.

when commadore anounced the amiga 1000 it was designed to compete against the apple in the same proffesional price range.

off course amiga and atari were major rivals.

but atari occuppied a design, that offered quality 16bit gaming, though amiga did have better scrolling and sound in game, but offered the advantage of the apple at a low price range.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 my 2 prefered systems from that era is the atari and the archemidies, just my personal choice.

i dont really play 2d scrolling shooters or platforms, so MY usage of MY choice of games theres little advantage in the amiga

theres not any difference between vroom for example weither its on the amiga or atari.

so all my amiga offers me is a more difficuilt set up.

but i respect the amiga for what it can do better than my st, even though its not a feature of my usage.

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 i appoligise, if  i caused offense (fanboy) but it seamed to me that you were continualy stating amiga's superiourity.

and yes some asspects of it design definetly is. 2d scrolling and sound in games

but some asspect of the st design is superiour as well, low latency and builtin midi

and you admit better 3d performance performance in the archemidies.

my argument as ive continually repeated.

is its YOUR CHOICE on what is THE BEST SYSTEM, BASED on YOUR specific NEEDS

[cant1rac]

@petsasjim1 Where did each system gain commercial success ?

Amiga.. Games & Graphic production ie babylon 5

Atari..... CAD, desktop publishing, design & the music industry.

Archemidies....Education, medical, & music publishing

Apple... coperate industries & desktop publishing

each system was adopted by an industry because that machine was the best solution for that task.

why did they not all just buy an Amiga?

i repeat!

No machine is superiour. its the best machine for your needs

[cant1rac]

sorry mate dont think anyone else on here wants to hear our debate, quite frankly, stfm was ataris worst machine, and i recognise that the f series was behind the ste and amiga graphically....

respect mate, but i think this disscussion has ran its course. thank you for it though. enjoy your gaming what ever machine you choose

although heated at points, weve kept it polite.

[cant1rac]

weither your a gamer or a more serious user?

choose the machine for you, 1200 amiga fabulous machine

get a500+ with a monitor if all you want to do is play games....

though as an all round solution for more than gaming

an atari ste or upwards or an amiga 1200.

atari vs amiga is only relevant on how you want to use your machine.

the flaws in my 500+ design i feel are significant and very poor.

just the atari i found was the best designed solution, for gaming, pro sound engineering and desktop

[cant1rac]

amiga isnt technically better, i own both, and for games the amiga is slightly better.

better sound?

no way, i still use my st for recording demo's for my band.

graphics?

no way i have better photo/image software for my ste.

i can put a stock ste to practical use, i cant do that with my amiga 500+

and that is the real test

a larger machine, external modulater and pass through cables, the huge psu, no reset switch, work bench on a disk.

the whole design feels very very poor next to the atari st

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac The Amiga isn't technically better? Its a matter of FACT that it is and was, the rest of your post is that of a petulant child that is 20 years too late.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto your reply, shows your maturity yes the amiga was superiour graphicaly as far as games were important until the ste rectified the graphical deficencies compared with the amiga 500.

all your point dont have 1 technical fact to back them up

both computers have there pluses.

but my amiga gets stuck in a box, cause it takes up to much desk space, the modulator weight damages the contacts, because it does not enough positives or uses to outway still having my ste setup

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac Yes, my maturity is there for all to see, because I just dealt with the facts.

The Amiga blitter was superior to the ST/STe..barrel shifter yay! :(

The Amiga graphics were superior to the ST/STe

Whilst technically the STe on paper had the besting of the Amiga in the sound department, the reality was it wasn't! All the extra sound channels in the world don't make up for the deficiencies in the design.

I don't use a modulator, I use a monitor, so that point is moot.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto that point is not moot, i and many peopel could not afford a monitor, its part of the deficency of its design..

so is having no reset switch, its shortens a computers life span, turning it off. crashing the cpu and system down like that.

i agree more games came out designed for the stfm rather than the capsblities of the ste, so you want a games machine, as long as your prepared to find a monitor and all you want to do is play games, go for the amiga.

so i dont see your argument

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac No its not at all. The fact is, the Amiga was more expensive throughout its entire life versus the price point of the ST. It was a fact that Amigas were more highly expanded than that of the ST market. Extra ram, external drives and monitors was the NORM on the Amiga.

The lack of a specific reset switch is irrelevant considering the Amiga had that functionality with the three key reset. You don't seem to be familiar with it, hence why I repeat it again.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto my argument is i cant use my amiga anymore, for anything other than a retro gaming fest...

but as a musician i can and do use my ste, my ste for practical use not nessacerly games is better engineered solution, and the games are not that far behind and there are some that even beat the amiga

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac Well, you're in a minority there. People are using the Amiga as a MIDI controller, surfing the internet, playing games, creating games, writing modules, creating demos/intros.

And sorry, but the ST games in the main ARE way behind the Amiga. You make these claims and then act surprised when you get called out on it?!?!?

How is the STe better engineered over the Amiga?

[bobbystar101]

@BaronCalisto Didnt you ever know the running joke?

"Hows your amiga?"

"Oh its in the cupboard"

"ahhh, broke then"

BTW people are doing all those things on atari, especially using them as midi controller since they have built in midi.

Anyway don't you think this is a bit over the top writing an essay on a 25 year old system. Its all been said before and no one cares any longer.

[cant1rac]

@bobbystar101 sorry never ment this to be a running debate dude. though i probably kicked it off.....opps, my amigas not broke....lol

so do dig it out know and then, what ever you play enjoy it.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto last time i reply, your just not talking sence, your comparing the functionalities of say a a1200 to a ste, im comparing a 500 to a ste.

if you read me last post on this you'd realise i think morden computing is do able on a 1200, but never the 500+ why you getting all religious about it.

talk facts, most of the points your refering to on the st are garbage, it has 4 joystick ports i use the 2 on the side and leave the one underneath for the mouse.



[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac I didn't compare the A1200 to anything, I simply said Amiga. You do realise that everything I stated that the Amiga is capable of was in reference to the A500 don't you?

Its lovely the ST has 4 joystick ports, but its a FACT that the two ports underneath the machine are the design of a cretin.

I'm not religious about the Amiga, I just won't leave bold statements that are not correct to go unchallenged.

All the points I referred to about the ST are correct, you've yet to respond.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto why would i want to continue a childish and imature debate about something that in the end dosent matter,

your views about the front mouse/joystick ports are that off an amiga zelot, set up with a mouse its a great feature, you dont like it , fine.

i dont like some off the amiga design, draw, but who cares

really i say what i said earlier, choose the machine that best suits your needs,

you can upgrade your a1200 way beyond the original machine, cool!

and really id like one

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac Amiga zealot? Au contraire my misinformed friend. I started off on the Atari STfm and still have a pair of STe's, so zealot? I'm sure that was intended to be aimed at someone else ;)

I make the comment about the ports underneath because thats exactly how I feel.

Didn't realise anyone was being 'childish', just thought we were having a debate. Oh well

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto really im not giving a techno loaded reply, cause i want to draw a mature line in the sand and end this immature conversation.

i like the st for what it does for me over and above the amiga, you like the amiga for what it can do.....

cool.

technical issues fine they will always be debated, always be different opinions

whats the problem?

cant you just leave it at that, for god sake man

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto one last note i am not an atari fan boy, loved the c64, but i wasnt so blind off its deficencies, though it and the msx are my faviourite 8 bits

the atari 8 bits dont even come in my top 5.

cmd 64 deficencies.. could not address as much memory as the 48k spectrum in practical use, though workaround solutions were found.

that cassette deck was good when i worked, but an overly tight mechanism, ment regularly using a head alligment kit.

not a fan boy off any system

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac I'm well aware of the Amigas shortcomings, unfortunately, you've not addressed any of them.

On another 'monitor' note, you do know that the Amiga could be plugged directly into a SCART compliant TV which turned said TV into a monitor don't you? I know very few people that EVER had to rely on the modulator, because built in or not, a modulator degrades the signal thus the picture quality isn't so good.

[cant1rac]

@BaronCalisto you call no built in modulator, a crap heath robinson bypass cable system, which weight pulls on the board contacts and shortens it life, no built in psu, no reset switch, a larger desktop footprint, less joystick ports etc a better design,ok

i have both machines why am i not signing the amiga's praises if its so good ?

ohh and the graphical negatives of the atari stfm were fully addressed in the ste models.

want a games machine amiga is slightly better, i use my ste for more

[BaronCalisto]

@cant1rac Most Amiga owners used a monitor, I NEVER used the modulator, so the points you raise about it are irrelevant. Why would I want a built in PSU? So that acts as a major heatsource, and restricts internal expansion. It was able to reset with a three key combination, thats more than sufficient as a reset. Joystick ports? Oh, are we talking about the 'magical' design on the ST that had the ports UNDER the front of the machine? Design 'genius'!

[kjw7000]

I owned both. The Amiga was a games console with a keyboard. The atari was a better all rounder. I owned the ste 1st and went back to it. There is something about that chip music that warms your heart. Both machines tried too hard at doing what the other excelled at. Now all we need is an amiga die hard to tell me other wise. I almost forgot. why didnt commodore let the workbench load without a disc? or was this what made it a better gamer. more space for goodies?

[LokiV]

Come on guys both were good :)

[NexussVI]

Music still sound like on 8-bit machines Something like atari xl/xe or amstrad. I heard better sounds on C64. Anyway just take look at Amiga version of Shadow o.t. Beast and give me a break.

[Scumkill2]

Atari ST was very good but A500 was better. Better sound, better gfx, better OS (multitasking). Atari had built-in MIDI interface, a very nice feature and ST was more affordable. Many greatest games of the time weren't ported for ST. I don't know what is (was) that pointless war about but I'm sure that Amiga is (was) technically better.

[hoques1432]

I hate those frickin' Commodore vs. Atari discussions. Really, that's completely immature.

I find comparising versions of games and differend computers etc. to be quite fun, but these kinda "fanboyish" comments piss me off to be honest.

I like the Amiga more than the ST, but I still respect and appreciate the ST and the kind of stuff you can do with it, like this demo. Superb!

[elgatoshadow]

@hoques1432 Well said! In many cases I have both the Atari and Commodore systems and love them both. They each had their high points.

[walter0bz]

weren't they originally planning to sell st blitters as upgrades, that would have been treating custimers well

[SlightlyDeath]

What's that? What does it show? A sprite running around in front of a nice looking background - and what is next? Don't think it's that much worth mentioning... the Amiga did it way better

[vegunited06]

amiga > st

[JasperAbraxxious]

Hey, I am a BIG Amiga fan, although I have lots of love for the St as well.

This is quite impressive. Obviously not as many colours on screen as the old Amiga game, but still, VERY impressive for a system not designed for this.

[weaselfierce]

you know.. I was an amiga guy but could we just look at the platforms for what they were, rather than have the same old fights again and again. Its been 15+ years and we're the only ones giving a shit

[TheTubeRuler2009]

Face it - SOTB on ST was a perfect demonstration of what the ST could do - this pile of wank changes nothing. The ST was an empty box with a MIDI interface. End of story.

[r8qt7]

@TheTubeRuler2009 amiga pussy

[TheTubeRuler2009]

@r8qt7 Yes, Amiga owners get pussy. ST owners cruise for a piece of man-ass.

ST shitstabber

[CFalcon030]

Oh? You made yet another account and came back? See you on your next account! Bye!

[AlephNeil]

@TheTubeRuler2009 : This is a joke, right? You're pretending you're still an 11 year old whose identity and sense of self-worth are tied to the wizzy new home computer that his mommy bought for him last christmas?

[CFalcon030]

@TubeDestroyer2010 oh lovely, another account. It was boring 2008 and 2009. It's even worse at 2010. So long and thanks for all the fish.

[factor6]

Asskicking! Atari rulez!

[MrHabaki]

As here was speaken about SOTB on the falcon... this would have been a very easy task! The falcon has a 320*240 mode with 262144 colors and could do musix with the DSP in a quality far better than ST or Amiga could do. But this demo shown here is the proof that even the ST version could have been as good as the Amiga version...

[koolkitty8989]

So that's all software generated on a blitterless ST?

The original ST version may have been lacking visually, but the lack of music (even simple YM2149 generated music) compounded that. The music here is pretty nice.

[EvilFranky]

Yes that is all generated on a Blitterless ST with 1MB RAM.

The ST version could have been a lot better than what was released.

[trophy242]

There are a lot of poorly coded/ported Amiga games. Most of them comes from Atari ST and are direct ports. This is a rule, but this is working in other direction also. There are some poorly coded/ported Atari ST games too. Some of them are non-direct ports from Amiga. Some of the games cannot be easily ported from Amiga to ST, of course, but it doesn't mean these games can't be written in proper way on ST from scratch. SotB is the best example of crappy Amiga conversion to the ST. The crapiest!

[68030]

and I forgot the sound is made in soundchip no with tracker /samples !!!

[TheTubeRuler]

The ST sucks donkey cock

[eltony31]

Amiga Format - "Only amiga make its possible" Only?!???! STf withow custom chip! too ;D

[68030]

look no sprites collisions,no ennemis,no maps to do ,no Artificial intelligence,it still impressive but it still a demo not a game like the amiga version.

[musojon74]

Cool - nice one posting this it's very interesting. It's a nice efficient demo :-D The ST rocked people! Obviously the Amiga did it bettter but there's a place for both these machines in my heart. It's a shame there were some negative comments by muppets - but like I say nice one posting this :)

[r8qt7]

get this for all the amiga nuts ...

[neomedia74]

This still proves the ST version of Beast could have been better than the original version.

[dlfrsilver]

The official ST version of Beast boast game logic, ennemies, and you see the result......

This demo just look nice like most demos did.

[dlfrsilver]

I would like to point and ask also, since this is a demo, there is no ennemies sprites and no game logic to handle in the Phaleon demo.

What would happen if you add many sprites on screen and the game logic ? huge slowdowns !

[tondaloona2009]

yes indeed - ST smoke & mirrors.

[EvilFranky]

If you could be bothered to read everything that has been posted on here by the ST fans with realistic expectations, you would see that nobody has said that this could be turned into full game.

But what it shows is that there was potential for improvement over the Psygnosis release (that didn't even have any in game music and the rasters were unstable), and that's all people have stated. Not that the ST could produce the Amiga version or that this demo could be turned into a 50fps game.

[Dbhug]

To be fair, if we had to make a game, we would not have bothered having the left and right overscan because it really uses quite a fair amount of CPU time.

Concerning the cost of sprites, yes definitely would have been costly. Collisions handling as well, but not the game logic - frankly in Shadow of the Beast it is extremely primitive -

[EvilFranky]

Thanks for replying on this thread Dbhug!

In your technical opinion, could this have been turned into a 25fps version of Shadow of the Beast?

I'll take that you are in agreement that the ST version of SOTB could have been made a lot better than what was released?

Instead of the left/right border trick, myabe it would be possible to increase lower border to make it a 320*240 screen? :-)

[Dbhug]

Two anwser this, we have to consider two scenarios: STF vs STE, and half meg vs meg machine.

On the STE it would have been possible to do something smart, like having the game running at 25fps on most of the screen, but cheat on things like the lower part of the screen with a 50fps smooth scroll running in IRQ by just playing with the STE split screen registers.

Also on STE you could you display the sprites using the blitter, without having to use memory for preshifting.

[Dbhug]

On a 520 STF, what I would have done is to exploit the fact that in this game you almost never have many different types of obstacles at the same time on the screen. I would have loaded the data in the background depending of where the player is in the level, preshifting all the sprites so they can be displayed faster when required.

In short, yes the Atari version could have been a lot better, if only by having a music at all and some decent sound effects. I also remember bugs in the palettes!

[EvilFranky]

Yes I remember the background rasters being unstable in the ST version.

Thanks for your input on this thread. Its good to see someone with technical knowledge commenting.

1 final thing, in your opinion how well could the Falcon have reproduced SOTB. Im not certain it would be 100% capable. It had no hardware sprites, or dual play fields etc...what are your thoughts?

[Dbhug]

Let see.

The stock falcon comes with 4 megs of ram, and 16mhz 68030 rated at about 4 times the speed of a standard ST.

Then you have the 256 color mode, with 8 interleaved bitplans (instead of 4 on the ST).

A simple way of doing that would be to use 4 plans for the background, 4 plans for the sprites. Most of the sprites don't overlap in this game, so you can just 'blit' them directly on screen without any masking. Use the DSP for the music. And the the 262144 colors palette for the rasters!

[EvilFranky]

I'm no expert but that sounds like it would be very possible, if not even better looking! Enhanced rasters and 256 colour mode :-)

Would be cool to see a basic tech demo of this on the Falcon, I have no programming skills unfortunately.

[EvilFranky]

I would still like to see an STe port of SOTB. I know that it wouldn't be the Amiga version, but it would be great to see how much the STe could have been pushed to make as close a conversion as possible.

[CFalcon030]

I wouldn't. If a port of an amiga game was to be made why not choose a good game and not that... I'll refrain from using characterisations..

[EvilFranky]

I understand your point. SOTB was all graphics/sound and awful gameplay.

Alien Breed I have always thought would make a good STe conversion. I don't see much that the STe could not do in this game.

Even the HAM mode screens could be done on STe, as shown in the More Or Less Zero demo.

[dlfrsilver]

to see what would happens if alien breed was running on a ST machine, run the game on amiga 'ST Emulator' in the game. The blitter access is cutted and the game relies only on processor. See the result by yourself :D

[dlfrsilver]

'ST emulator' is a cheat mode to type inside the game.

[EvilFranky]

I didn't say 'ST' I said 'STE'. Big difference.

I have heard of the Alien Breed mode that you described, but lets be honest since it was a 'joke' mode do you really think they spent the time creating a completely different set of code just for that mode? No way. More than likely it was a few lines of code that reduced the screen redraw to give the impression of a 'BLITTER-LESS' Alien Breed.

[tondaloona2009]

nothing to see here, move on. Amiga FTW

[CFalcon030]

Yes please.

[tondaloona2009]

well said. Welcome to the wonderful world of amiga.

[CFalcon030]

No, I meant you in particularly.

[tondaloona2009]

Particularly? Sorry, I don't speak council estate.

[EvilFranky]

Both words were spelt correctly it was not a spelling mistake.

How do you expect me to decipher a sentence that is incomprehensible?

I highlighted that it made no sense. Secretly I think you agree and that is the reason why you will not explain what you meant by 'get off my land'.

But thank you for dragging a number of cool Amiga & ST video clips into the gutter with your argumentative, threatening, offensive and vulgar comments.

The Amiga scene must be proud to call you one of their own.

[chiptastic2003]

I told you already, it's not my responsibility to help you with your comprehension. Also, if you think you spelt 'non-existent' correctly, I suggest you buy a fucking dictionary, you ST freak.

[EvilFranky]

I thought you'd finally shut your mouth. But back it is again in full vulgar force.

It is when the waffle you have written is incomprehensible.

Take it easy keyboard warrior!

[chiptastic2003]

Wow. Do you sit waiting for my posts? What a sad and empty life you have. I believe you are the keyboard warrior, my illiterate friend! What a fucking typical ST loser. Get a job, you sexless freak.

[EvilFranky]

No but I have a wonderful thing called email that alerts me when people respond to my posts. It's truly magical.

[chiptastic2003]

I bet, it's the only excitement you get.

[EvilFranky]

Keyboard Warrior:-

A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

I haven't threatened or abused you or anyone else in these posts, unlike yourself.

[chiptastic2003]

That's you to a T! Uncanny.

[chiptastic2003]

Hell hath no fury like an ST freak scorned. Over & out.

[CFalcon030]

OK, I am away for a few days and this happens. Chiptastic, I suggest you find another hobby or be calm and rational. If those two qualities are hard for you I am going to have to block you.

[EvilFranky]

From what it looks like, his account is now deleted. Or he has blocked me.