Five Color Keeper, Part 1 of 6, Mike Long investigates Pro Tour Kyoto Top 8 deck, Magic, MTG

[A4moondoggy]

decks like this are gay

[loganINTJ]

Thank-you for these videos. I really enjoy hearing about how design theory meets up with play experience and helps to fine-tune a deck. I'm a huge fan of vintage Keeper. I think that it still has the chance to be the best deck in vintage, but it requires an extensive amount of fine-tuning (for the metagame) and play experience in order for it to be as such. Sadly there aren't many people with the mindset to do so. It's the people behind the scenes who enable Nassif, LSV and other to pilot.

[Mightypoo007]

David Mills?! That's Brad Pitt's name in Se7en, great movie!

On-topic: Interesting video. I love the backstory and clear talk.

[GaeasBlessing]

"vWhat did Weissman have instead? 4 plows, Serra Angels, xtra disenchant, & remember no red so no fireball and no augury! (most underrated card)"

He had tutors to find Mind Twist. Later versions used Mana Short to set up Twist/Amnesia in drain-on-drain matches. The original 1995 list didn't use Mind Warp since it was already maindecking 3 D. Scepter as a metagame response due to the prevalence of Drain decks in the bay area.

[GaeasBlessing]

Also, my original statement was "[5 color control/Keeper] existed in some form since at least 1995 as Brian Weissman's "The Deck.

Your responses have been arguments to the effect of "Our deck was better" but even if these statements are taken at face value, it doesn't refute the assertion that Weissman came first and was highly influential on later Vintage players. I.e., he paved the way for what 5 color Drain control should look like far more than Mills did.

[GaeasBlessing]

Lastly, regarding Elemental Augury: it never got picked up on for a reason, Mike. By the time Saga came out it was obsolete since Aggro-Keeper with multiple Morphlings and Yawgmoth's Will didn't need a 3cc enchantment with a huge liability (3 different colors required to cast and 3 colorless to use; this made it a detriment, not an asset, vs. decks using multiple Wasteland or Back to Basics).

[GaeasBlessing]

So, for a window there between Alliances and say, Urza's Saga, E. Augury may have been undiscovered tech in 5 color control. And again, I credit you for using M. Scroll before others started realizing how good it was. This doesn't seem to retract from my original sentiment that Weissman is still—more than any other player—the founding father of 5 color control.

[MJtheKandyman]

hows an old style keeper deck work

[GaeasBlessing]

PM me if you want the full deck lists. I still have an entire notebook full of old Magic deck lists that I wrote down in my high school computer lab when I was supposed to be doing schoolwork. :)

[GaeasBlessing]

For some obnoxious, annoying reason, YouTube won't post my comments so I am only going to try one last time to say that Vintage Keeper decks used 8 counters, 9 of the power 10, and lots of "silver bullet" cards that they could tutor for and then replay with Yawgmoth's Will.

Mike is being hyperbolic when he names David Mills as the "inventor" of the deck. It existed in some form since at least 1995 as Brian Weissman's "The Deck."

[videomusicshowcase]

I'm not being hyperbolic;)

Weissman's "the Deck" while nicely innovative, had nothing at all on the Keeper...

Here are cards that don't appear in "the deck" in relative order of importance: 1. merchant scroll, 2. 4th strip mine (the deck had 3), 3. mana vault 4 mind warp 5. elemental augury, 6. disrupting scepter 7. mirror universe (serra angel, ha!) 8. the abyss, 9. Fireball, 10. incinerate. (+ many sideboard cards.)

PS Cards the deck includes (in multiples): 1 Serra Angel, 2 book, 3 4 plows

[GaeasBlessing]

Mike, are you basing these claims solely on the list Weissman used in the invitational '97?

His 1995 version had 3 main deck D. Scepter; later versions used 2 Fireball, 1 Mirror, no Serras, The Abyss and the 4th Strip. So that leaves Incinerate, Mind Warp, Mana Vault, E. Augory, and Merchant Scroll as truly unique cards, of which only Merchant Scroll could be seen as objective improvement to Weissman's drain-control shell (read: was used in later versions by serious vintage players).

[videomusicshowcase]

Great question GaeasBlessing!

I'm basing my analysis on "the deck" as it was when David Mills designed the Keeper, because after we began to popularize it Brian, a friend and contemporary of ours, began to copy aspects of the Keeper.

But what's perhaps most fascinating is how LITTLE Brian and others copied from the Keeper!

I carefully ordered the distinct card choices that David made, and I forgot to mention something critical, which is that the keeper had zero non-blue lands. (continued)

[videomusicshowcase]

Merchant Scroll, the 4th strip and Mana Vault weren't "slightly better" than other choices...they were the primary advantages of the Keeper...and they were never copied while I was still playing!

The short version is that if you cast Ancestral recall, you win.

And having all blue lands instead of say 1 Savannah, is night and day different in the all important Amnesia war.

So Weissman didn't even copy the best cards despite getting beat by the keeper again and again.

(continued)

[videomusicshowcase]

Finally the Mind Warp...the genius there was that Mind Twist was still available when David created the Keeper...and he still ALSO played the Mind Warp (often powered by Mana Vault).

That's because while "the Deck" only had one semi soft lock condition, the Mind Twist, David armed the Keeper with 2 so he always had it when it was time to seal the deal.

What did Weissman have instead? 4 plows, Serra Angels, xtra disenchant, & remember no red so no fireball and no augury! (most underrated card)

[videomusicshowcase]

One morel comment because of your fine question and your reasonable seeming response: Just because folks didn't copy the Keeper enough doesn't mean that it wasn't the best deck with the best choices. It took forever for folks to recognize Merchant Scroll and Mana Vault outside of combo, and Augery never got picked up on!

Remember, just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean that there's not a better way, and Mills' Keeper is perhaps Magic's finest example of that idea.

Thanks!

Mike

[varnoa]

I've never heard of mike long (just started playing about 3 weeks ago) and was just wondering who is he and how come i don't see him on the pro tour circuit?

[Galactu5]

lol.

[bobudess]

lol man i still believe in you, that pros bloom incident, that was masterful.

the mind trick is a part oft he game.

ur a great player keep it up good to see ur still active.

[MagicExpertttttt]

hi i need help guys i have a conflux deck: jund appetite of war, but i find it too weak because its devour creature only have a devour 1! so.. i have too many card to remove on the list, and im planning to make it a 5 colored deck, im planning to combine cards from naya jund and grixis! can somebody help me with this? pls?

[luckyfrank777]

Do you still want to devour things ? Do you want to control the game and finish up by devouring 2 or 3 creature with mycoloth or drop a 5 power or more creature ? They are pletty of way to finish up a game in magic, more when you play all 5 color.

[MagicExpertttttt]

i think i'll still use devour but i dont have much knowledge on the other decks, but i already have a plan with the devour 3 of thunder-thrash elder, but that would take 7 creatures to sacrifice and that would be 21/21 and use Rite of Consumption for an instant kill... is that still an effective thing if im going to make it a 5 color deck?

[luckyfrank777]

This combo would be better in a devour deck than a 5 color one, you might consider a big creature with evasion, broodmate dragon is a good example, it's hard to kill (2 dragons) and as flying. Trample would be a good evasion if your playing on devour, OR the green red dragon that gains trample and flying when it eated something, ( conflux unco)

[MagicExpertttttt]

i think i wanna buy Sarkhan Vol for my deck....:D

now i need some deck test.. thnx for the help

[bobsaggit]

mike long is probably my favorite player of all time and most influential for me :P i ran into him on MODO a couple years after its release and he actually took the time to talk to me and hooked me up with a free month membership to his website and really helped me. cool guy

[KurosakiUchiha666]

nice deck =D

[Seizurema]

I love you Mike Long.

[imperiajor]

i love 5 colors decks ^-^

[DoomDG]

how is this NOT 5 colors? Dragon is RGB, Esper charm is BUW... There you have WUBRG...

[StanGrunder]

your splashing the green though, for broodmate, off pool, and vivids. So its technically 5 but closer to 4. hope this helps

[canyouseetheproblem]

@StanGrunder your tryin to tell a MTG champion about MTG? HA!

[StanGrunder]

@canyouseetheproblem who has more thumbs up? and just because I am not a "champion" doesn't mean what I said is not true or a "joke" as you are implying.