well a great video, and some discussion, comments 2 years after the event, but that's good for the videographers , I probably wouldn't have noticed this if the new format of you tube had not occurred, and what splendid action I missed, much appreciated, cheers.
Thanks Leon, many opinions offered as to what happened on that day. I just consider myself fortunate to have been able to go and film the events, we'll never really know what happened
Mr46238(6 mins ago i fired all the time over shap on all lms engines ,,, i bben dead start out of tebay loop and got over shap no banker one of the best black i was on 4767 i was with a warrington friver from Preston to carlisle , come out of tebay 45 on and took them up shap no backer what a loco 12A loco, and no white smoke , i was a good fireman , bad enines 70000....70013...70044 ...70047... the best 70000,s ones off the westen .. fired 3 A3..2..A4
@quatfro . Yes, you're right, you may hear the extremely leaky cylinder gland (at 05:33 much louder than the exhaust). No wonder the engine had problems.
yes gery smoke i fired by my smoke if the got ligther i would close the firebox with my leg a bit hahhaha ,,,,,, i was 18 ys old i first trip to euston from carlisle
nice to meet you toplinkenginemen what shed were u at me 12b
yes gery smoke i fired by my smoke if the got ligther i would close the firebox with my leg a bit hahhaha ,,,,,, i was 18 ys old i first trip to euston from carlisle
@Mr46238 Interested in how you justify white "smoke" to being a bad fireman considering BR used to advise with 20% excess air for a very light grey haze for maximum efficiency - and given the ambient weather conditions, with steam condensate (vapour being colourless) how you can justify that as being poor firing? Would like to see you do better...
@Cockroach2008 And I'm not going to reply to you as it's only going to annoy me more. Once again, STEAM ENGINES ARE LOVED TOO MUCH TO BE SCRAPPED YOU BLITHERING IDIOT. Goodnight.
@Cockroach2008 Then if they are such excellent targets, why haven't they stripped to not nothing in the 5 decades that they have been restored. Think before you say something stupid, you sad little imbecile.
@Cockroach2008 you are one individual against the many thousands that adore steam power. like i've said to you before, they will never be scrapped again.
All of this nonsense about greasing 1 1/2 miles of track - have you thought about (1) how much grease you would have needed, (2) how heavy that would have been (and the difficulty of carrying it to the site), and (3) how much that would have cost you? I've never heard so much bullshit since talk of withdrawn 9Fs being mothballed in a disused tunnel, to be brought out in the event of nuclear war!
Doesn't electrification really spoil the looks of a line? The motorway doesn't help either though. Pity; without either the location wouldn't be massively far off the S&C.
Yes indeed. I usually film at Shap Wells these days as you can hide the wires a bit better. I would have loved to have filmed up there prior to the motorway and electrification. Ivo Peters to name but one photographer had some fine shots on cine film from Shap in the '60's
Hi acw71000. Great dvd. Iam not knit picking, but was not the second section on Beatock. I seem to recall stopping in the laybye on what was then the old A74. many years ago to watch the old trains getting to the top. thanks, 60009
@cleenol i meant where do they mend them in the UK-i am from the UK myself. I wonder if they do it up in crewe or darlington...i know tornado has had repairs done at Hither Green
Please excuse my ingorance but is it not dangerous to have all that steam under and around the high voltage power cables? Would it be possible for the electricity to be conducted onto the locomotive by the steam and water vapor?
@MrPnisHead it should be ok. Its no more dangerous than if it was raining. Its a lot of voltage but I dont think its enough to make it dangerous unless you had metal contact or touched the wire while grounded.
I might be wrong though. Anyone know of footplate crews getting shocks?
As far as I know there have not been any instances of crews getting shocks from the overhead power supply. Many locos, including 6024, have been cut down in height to allow them to work safely under the wires. I suppose in theory something could happen but to the best of my knowledge hasn't yet!
@MrPnisHead Steam is dry, and non-conductive. Also, pure water (free of contaminants) is not a conductor. With steam locomotives under wires, the heat of the furnace can melt the wires if the locomotive spins for too long in one place.
nice vid, its still good to see days like these no matter who gets in the way, im glad we still have classic steam & has to be said diesel, MUCH better than todays 43s and pendalinos etc, im annoyed i missed sir nigel on the tynsider out of newcastle because of snow, will get a few of these next year with cam for sure, brilliant days and thanks to the uploaders who share their vids with us
With regard to all the comments about people getting in the way, this is a small price to pay for seeing steam on the main. Sice I do both still and video, I can see both sides of the arguement, and so, when I go to a particular location, I find it usually helps if you talk to people, and ask them nicely to help you. You will, of course, always get the occasional grinning idiot who cant see a video camera without havine a good look down the lens, but for the most part, talking works fine for me.
Quite agree with you. Of course I would have been happier if the chap hadn't stood where he did but a lot of folk came up to Scout Green from other locations to get the extra shot when they realised the train had slowed to a stand. It was that sort of day when space was at a premium. These days I have no bother, as you say ask nicely and people are happy to accomodate you.
An excellent video. Interested in the comments about those that stand in front of the camera. I have mountains of useless clips and destroyed film because of that - in fact, the discarded clips will make a really comical video!
Thanks, it is getting more difficult as more and more people are filming these days. Railway enthusiasts mostly obey an unwritten rule and stand in a line, it tends to become more difficult when non enthusiasts who may be passing by stop to take a photo. As manners get worse and worse, the problem grows
What about the 'cameraman' who seems to believe he owns all the land between his tripod and the rails and who chose to pan past an obstruction he should have known was there. Nice video but get over yourself -- your video camera gives you no special privileges and that guy had just as much right to be there as you did.
Not too sure why I need to 'get over myself' as I certainly don't imply in the video description or comments that the guy had no right to be there. A lot of people came to Scout Green last minute, as I did, from a previous location and when I started shooting he wasn't there. With a camera mounted on your right shoulder and looking through a viewfinder at the train it was only when I panned I saw he had come alongside me. I decided not to edit him out as the final loco slip would have to go too.
@acw71000 I read your inverted commas around 'enthusiast' as saying that, if he were a real enthusiast, he'd have avoided standing in 'your' space. But if that's not what you meant, fair enough. A lot of people with cameras seem to think that they have priority over everyone else so it's good to see that you're not one of them.
Locos constantly had problems here - that's one reason there was a banker always at the ready. By the way the King is not a 'small locomotive'... looks can be deceiving.
Quite true re the pilot. Poor coal was a problem for this run and I think the train was maybe one coach too many. I reckon she could do as well as 5043 on Shap with a good crew who understand GWR locos.
Well the owning group wanted a loco that could go all over the network, the engine has to earn its keep. GW engines don't make too many appearances up north though sadly
Flawless performances of locos beating records in perfect light are a delight to watch, but to be in a position to capture the drama of a loco at odds with its environment and task at hand is rare these days - without doubt this great loco struggling up a steep grade in "foreign territory" is worth posting here. Many thanks.
GWR loco's with narrow fireboxes and 4-6-0 wheel arrangement are built with short steep banks in mind, with good adhension on the likes of Dainton & Hermerdon but lacking the sustained steaming ability needs for Grayrigg/Shap & S&C.
I wonder. I would really like to know what happened here. At Greenholme the problem was obviously steaming. That could be a physical problem (I read elsewhere of a perforated smokebox), design (as gaz318 avers) or operation (fireman failing to anticipate the demand in time). At Scout Green it was obviously plain friction - the only solution for that is more weight or a lighter train. Kings were at the track limit of 22.5 tons per driving axle when introduced - are Duchesses any higher?
Kings had pretty much the higest axle load out of British steam loco's, the Duchess has more tractive effort but in theory the Kings should get more grip with more weight over the driving wheels.
Thanks. TE is not grip, it is calculated using piston area, boiler pressure and crank geometry. When the Big Boys were designed, they needed about 135000lb TE, so designed to a weight 4 times as much, assuming friction of 25%.
TE was a political thing too. The Kings were built to exceed 40000lb, but on first overhaul the cylinders were sleeved down.
Duchesses had enormous boilers, and huge grate to the full body width, so enormous power. But Kings had higher power/weight and efficiency.
Great video. Not really a heavy load though, when you consider a Duches just did the run with the equivalent of 17 coaches on, and the Scot made a far better run with a similar load.
Thanks, your comments are correct but don't forget the Kings were not really built for climbing those sort of hills and GW engines need correct coal and driving and firing techniques.
A 4-6-0 will grip better on inclines than a 4-6-2, but you must put the firebox between the driving wheels. When introduced, GWR 4-6-0s were a full 30% better on coal consumption than LMS and LNER express engines. Even though the Duchess was later and built by a GWR trained engineer, it never bettered a King on coal or water consumption. Not important for enthusiasts, but very important for companies and shareholders.
Thanks Hugh, it's horses for courses really with the different locos. A King would never have gone up the Devon banks for example with this size load. The Duchesse's were built to haul heavy trains over Shap. About time 71000 stopped pootling up and down branch lines I reckon!!
All abit too much for her at Scout Green. But she packed a wallop at Plumpton and Shap! Still got some unique footages of her very rare trip to the north!
Wow , top stuff Austin. I doubt there has ever been a driver more relieved to see the other side of Shap ! I could sense his elation ! Thanks for posting.............Matt.
Absolutely brilliant Austin, and more so bearing in mind the conditions you filmed in. However I went up the S&C behind the King in 1998, and travelled up all the way from South Wales to see her on her first run over Ais Gill, and I was totally embarrassed. She developed a hole in the smoke box door on my run behind her, and the Ais Gill shot is not worth a mention to a GWR fan. Lets hope the boys at Tyseley do it with 5043..that wouls be magical...5* Bob
Many thanks Bob, I was on one of the southbound S&C trips, possibly the one you came up for, which as you say, was disappointing. I have enjoyed a good rub behind her on the Torbay Express though. I think 5043 will be o.k. and should restore some pride to the GWR.
Cheers Si, I think the Earl will be o.k as Vintage Trains usually operate with a sensible load...it'll be great to hear a Castle's roar in the fells, we want a dry day, no wind and not too warm!!
Excellent compilation 5* - The final shot should have a sub title "redemption!". Us ex GWR fans don't like to be reminded of less than sparkling performances in the North. Bob Masterman will be after you! LOL! I think Earl of Mount Edgcumbe is due over Shap shortly. Let's hope she brings her own anthracite! - Mike
Thanks very much, believe it or not I am a GWR fan too and have had several good runs behind 6024. I saw a comment on a forum suggesting that Tyseley should be sorting the coal lump by lump for the Earls run!!
i enjoyed this vid thanks for sharing with us all
tammydamo 1 month ago
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it
acw71000 1 month ago
well a great video, and some discussion, comments 2 years after the event, but that's good for the videographers , I probably wouldn't have noticed this if the new format of you tube had not occurred, and what splendid action I missed, much appreciated, cheers.
noelist 1 month ago
Thanks Leon, many opinions offered as to what happened on that day. I just consider myself fortunate to have been able to go and film the events, we'll never really know what happened
acw71000 1 month ago
Good shooting - enjoyed that!
maxblinkhorn 2 months ago
Thanks, glad you liked it
acw71000 2 months ago
Wonderful scene but the wind blows awful.
MarburgerKreisbahn05 2 months ago
Thank you, yes it was not a very pleasant day
acw71000 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mr46238(6 mins ago i fired all the time over shap on all lms engines ,,, i bben dead start out of tebay loop and got over shap no banker one of the best black i was on 4767 i was with a warrington friver from Preston to carlisle , come out of tebay 45 on and took them up shap no backer what a loco 12A loco, and no white smoke , i was a good fireman , bad enines 70000....70013...70044 ...70047... the best 70000,s ones off the westen .. fired 3 A3..2..A4
Mr46238 3 months ago
With all that steam hanging around the cylinders I'd say they had a leak somewhere wouldn't you?
quatfro 3 months ago
Very possibly, but I'm no expert
acw71000 3 months ago
@quatfro . Yes, you're right, you may hear the extremely leaky cylinder gland (at 05:33 much louder than the exhaust). No wonder the engine had problems.
globalaffair 1 month ago
yes gery smoke i fired by my smoke if the got ligther i would close the firebox with my leg a bit hahhaha ,,,,,, i was 18 ys old i first trip to euston from carlisle
nice to meet you toplinkenginemen what shed were u at me 12b
Mr46238 3 months ago
yes gery smoke i fired by my smoke if the got ligther i would close the firebox with my leg a bit hahhaha ,,,,,, i was 18 ys old i first trip to euston from carlisle
Mr46238 3 months ago
bad fireman white smoke cold air inro the firebox firebox doors open all the time, no good,,,, ex fireman 12B
Mr46238 3 months ago
@Mr46238 Interested in how you justify white "smoke" to being a bad fireman considering BR used to advise with 20% excess air for a very light grey haze for maximum efficiency - and given the ambient weather conditions, with steam condensate (vapour being colourless) how you can justify that as being poor firing? Would like to see you do better...
toplinkengineman 3 months ago
@Mr46238 Interesting stuff. Is this an absolute concrete fact of steam engine operation?
quatfro 3 months ago
a 5x would bet this king up shap i know ex fireman retied driver 12b man
Mr46238 4 months ago
Horses for courses isn't it really, the King had a few problems that day
acw71000 3 months ago
maybe royal scots grey should have banked her - just saying.
thehoff1982 4 months ago
Ha ha, you'll get some comments about that!
acw71000 4 months ago
@thehoff1982 Yes that would have made some great action!
mekydro 4 months ago
@thehoff1982 Deltic banking a King up Shap..... It's certainly different, I'll give you that! lol.=P
Paraffinmeister 3 months ago
@Cockroach2008 You keep telling yourself that, we all know it never happened, you're not fooling anyone.=P
Paraffinmeister 5 months ago
@Cockroach2008 And I'm not going to reply to you as it's only going to annoy me more. Once again, STEAM ENGINES ARE LOVED TOO MUCH TO BE SCRAPPED YOU BLITHERING IDIOT. Goodnight.
accadaccasuperstar 5 months ago
@Cockroach2008 Then if they are such excellent targets, why haven't they stripped to not nothing in the 5 decades that they have been restored. Think before you say something stupid, you sad little imbecile.
accadaccasuperstar 5 months ago
@Cockroach2008 you are one individual against the many thousands that adore steam power. like i've said to you before, they will never be scrapped again.
accadaccasuperstar 5 months ago
that would make a great picture- 5:36
username5515 5 months ago
Yes, not bad, but I'd have to get rid of the wires with Photoshop!
acw71000 5 months ago
that would make a great picture- 5:59
username5515 5 months ago
All of this nonsense about greasing 1 1/2 miles of track - have you thought about (1) how much grease you would have needed, (2) how heavy that would have been (and the difficulty of carrying it to the site), and (3) how much that would have cost you? I've never heard so much bullshit since talk of withdrawn 9Fs being mothballed in a disused tunnel, to be brought out in the event of nuclear war!
GJChurchward 6 months ago
The driver was a bit slow catching the slipping. There seem to be plenty of steam with a wisper from the sv
ron8197 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Cockroach2008 Yet further proof that you are delusional and in need of mental help.
Paraffinmeister 8 months ago 2
Doesn't electrification really spoil the looks of a line? The motorway doesn't help either though. Pity; without either the location wouldn't be massively far off the S&C.
Reorte 9 months ago 2
Yes indeed. I usually film at Shap Wells these days as you can hide the wires a bit better. I would have loved to have filmed up there prior to the motorway and electrification. Ivo Peters to name but one photographer had some fine shots on cine film from Shap in the '60's
acw71000 9 months ago
No king will venture north of the border as there are probably loading gauge problems.
basstrom188 10 months ago
its amazing how 71000 and 46115 Storm up shap yet this king class can't!
ChangingTracks 11 months ago
Loads of reasons why the King struggled that day, see some of the other comments
acw71000 11 months ago
Hi acw71000. Great dvd. Iam not knit picking, but was not the second section on Beatock. I seem to recall stopping in the laybye on what was then the old A74. many years ago to watch the old trains getting to the top. thanks, 60009
cleenol 1 year ago
No, definitely Shap, the King has never ventured north of the border
acw71000 1 year ago
good to see the loco trying!
tom201090 1 year ago
Bet the crew found it very trying!!
acw71000 1 year ago
@tom201090 This was a steam engine we looked at so the person was a engine driver, not an engineer, they mend them in this country, regards 60009
cleenol 1 year ago
@cleenol i meant where do they mend them in the UK-i am from the UK myself. I wonder if they do it up in crewe or darlington...i know tornado has had repairs done at Hither Green
tom201090 1 year ago
Please excuse my ingorance but is it not dangerous to have all that steam under and around the high voltage power cables? Would it be possible for the electricity to be conducted onto the locomotive by the steam and water vapor?
MrPnisHead 1 year ago
@MrPnisHead it should be ok. Its no more dangerous than if it was raining. Its a lot of voltage but I dont think its enough to make it dangerous unless you had metal contact or touched the wire while grounded.
I might be wrong though. Anyone know of footplate crews getting shocks?
andysim232 1 year ago
As far as I know there have not been any instances of crews getting shocks from the overhead power supply. Many locos, including 6024, have been cut down in height to allow them to work safely under the wires. I suppose in theory something could happen but to the best of my knowledge hasn't yet!
acw71000 1 year ago
@acw71000 Ok thanks, I was just curious to know.
MrPnisHead 1 year ago
@MrPnisHead Steam is dry, and non-conductive. Also, pure water (free of contaminants) is not a conductor. With steam locomotives under wires, the heat of the furnace can melt the wires if the locomotive spins for too long in one place.
BoilerRoom4 1 year ago
@MrPnisHead then we would be in trouble when it rains then or even snows..
jayeastanglia 1 year ago
One of the best video i have seen on Youtube. That Engineer have skills. Hats off to him. lol!!
buntik1687 1 year ago
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it, I agree, the engineer deserves all the praise
acw71000 1 year ago
nice vid, its still good to see days like these no matter who gets in the way, im glad we still have classic steam & has to be said diesel, MUCH better than todays 43s and pendalinos etc, im annoyed i missed sir nigel on the tynsider out of newcastle because of snow, will get a few of these next year with cam for sure, brilliant days and thanks to the uploaders who share their vids with us
wattass7 1 year ago
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it, hope you can get out in 2011 and catch a few yourself. Happy New Year.
acw71000 1 year ago
With regard to all the comments about people getting in the way, this is a small price to pay for seeing steam on the main. Sice I do both still and video, I can see both sides of the arguement, and so, when I go to a particular location, I find it usually helps if you talk to people, and ask them nicely to help you. You will, of course, always get the occasional grinning idiot who cant see a video camera without havine a good look down the lens, but for the most part, talking works fine for me.
fouloleron2002 1 year ago
Quite agree with you. Of course I would have been happier if the chap hadn't stood where he did but a lot of folk came up to Scout Green from other locations to get the extra shot when they realised the train had slowed to a stand. It was that sort of day when space was at a premium. These days I have no bother, as you say ask nicely and people are happy to accomodate you.
acw71000 1 year ago
An excellent video. Interested in the comments about those that stand in front of the camera. I have mountains of useless clips and destroyed film because of that - in fact, the discarded clips will make a really comical video!
christopherhobson 1 year ago
Thanks, it is getting more difficult as more and more people are filming these days. Railway enthusiasts mostly obey an unwritten rule and stand in a line, it tends to become more difficult when non enthusiasts who may be passing by stop to take a photo. As manners get worse and worse, the problem grows
acw71000 1 year ago
You can't say it was the king, that day we had bad coal
60163JOSH 1 year ago
I certainly don't say it was anything to do with the loco, I'm a GWR fan and well aware of the problems on that day
acw71000 1 year ago
Great shops WELL DONE
GrrMeister 1 year ago
Thank you very much, I'm pleased you enjoyed the video
acw71000 1 year ago
What about the 'cameraman' who seems to believe he owns all the land between his tripod and the rails and who chose to pan past an obstruction he should have known was there. Nice video but get over yourself -- your video camera gives you no special privileges and that guy had just as much right to be there as you did.
beeble2003 1 year ago
Not too sure why I need to 'get over myself' as I certainly don't imply in the video description or comments that the guy had no right to be there. A lot of people came to Scout Green last minute, as I did, from a previous location and when I started shooting he wasn't there. With a camera mounted on your right shoulder and looking through a viewfinder at the train it was only when I panned I saw he had come alongside me. I decided not to edit him out as the final loco slip would have to go too.
acw71000 1 year ago
@acw71000 I read your inverted commas around 'enthusiast' as saying that, if he were a real enthusiast, he'd have avoided standing in 'your' space. But if that's not what you meant, fair enough. A lot of people with cameras seem to think that they have priority over everyone else so it's good to see that you're not one of them.
beeble2003 1 year ago
You can tell by the smoke that the firemans firing on dust, which is probably the main cause of the problems.
brackers5 1 year ago
A very good video I could feel for the engine!!
terencehaydn 1 year ago
Thank you, it was a shame about the problems on that day but she came through in the end.
acw71000 1 year ago
i hope BIG AL can see this he would be laughing in he,s grave . still miss you big guy ......
duxberry1958 1 year ago
Locos constantly had problems here - that's one reason there was a banker always at the ready. By the way the King is not a 'small locomotive'... looks can be deceiving.
gainsbourg66 1 year ago
Midland fireman could fire a King Class small locomotive while reading the Financial times in the otthewr hand.
quintonflyer 1 year ago
Ha ha, I will duck and run for cover to avoid the inter company rivalry, I love 'em all.
acw71000 1 year ago
GWR loco on a real hill, alone! enough said! hence they would stick a manor on the front for piloting over the banks!!!!
Bad coal maybe?
m20sderby 1 year ago
Quite true re the pilot. Poor coal was a problem for this run and I think the train was maybe one coach too many. I reckon she could do as well as 5043 on Shap with a good crew who understand GWR locos.
acw71000 1 year ago
Fantastic video.
steamtrammetje 1 year ago
Thanks very much
acw71000 1 year ago
Fantastic camera work, thanks!
And fantastic driving keeping her going too. Secens we'er unlikely to see again with weezles stuck on the back nowerdays
TIMMEH19991 1 year ago
Cheers, glad you liked it.
acw71000 1 year ago
It needs a real Mdland Fireman (cough)
quintonflyer 1 year ago
Naughty naughty!!
acw71000 1 year ago
@quintonflyer It was probably a 'real' midland fireman that messed it up!
bigben5051 1 year ago
Great video, that slipping is amazing!
pacelweb 2 years ago
Thanks very much, the crew did so well to keep her on the move
acw71000 2 years ago
Im kinda new to this interest, But isn't this somewhat out of place. I mean a Great Western King being so far north?
justandy333 2 years ago
Well the owning group wanted a loco that could go all over the network, the engine has to earn its keep. GW engines don't make too many appearances up north though sadly
acw71000 2 years ago
i love kings :)
GWR4079 2 years ago
That was one of the most enjoyable steam vids ive seen on here, great to see them grafting on gradients. Brilliant!
dieselmanmike 2 years ago
Thanks, I love that raw power of a steam loco working hard
acw71000 2 years ago
Flawless performances of locos beating records in perfect light are a delight to watch, but to be in a position to capture the drama of a loco at odds with its environment and task at hand is rare these days - without doubt this great loco struggling up a steep grade in "foreign territory" is worth posting here. Many thanks.
bolendoc 2 years ago
Thank you, it would be good to see the King tackle Shap again. With a good crew and sensible load I don't think there would be a problem this time
acw71000 2 years ago
how come there's no sound? Greg
floodedcar123 2 years ago
Just played it through, no problems on my PC!!
acw71000 2 years ago
blimy! she's really having a go at it! :)
trainlover657 2 years ago
Cheers, certainly a difficult day for the crew.
acw71000 2 years ago
Just noticed, also great comments,
you learn something every day!
From a GWR local.
henryv8 2 years ago
Fantastic!!! thx.
henryv8 2 years ago
Thanks very much for your comments, glad you enjoyed the video.
acw71000 2 years ago
Thanks, it was a tough day for loco and crew,(not to mention the intrepid photographer in the rain and wind!!!)
acw71000 2 years ago
Awesome video 5*
pwalpar 2 years ago
GWR loco's with narrow fireboxes and 4-6-0 wheel arrangement are built with short steep banks in mind, with good adhension on the likes of Dainton & Hermerdon but lacking the sustained steaming ability needs for Grayrigg/Shap & S&C.
gaz318 2 years ago
Quite true, it's a case of horses for courses.
acw71000 2 years ago
I wonder. I would really like to know what happened here. At Greenholme the problem was obviously steaming. That could be a physical problem (I read elsewhere of a perforated smokebox), design (as gaz318 avers) or operation (fireman failing to anticipate the demand in time). At Scout Green it was obviously plain friction - the only solution for that is more weight or a lighter train. Kings were at the track limit of 22.5 tons per driving axle when introduced - are Duchesses any higher?
CoeurDeLoin 2 years ago
Kings had pretty much the higest axle load out of British steam loco's, the Duchess has more tractive effort but in theory the Kings should get more grip with more weight over the driving wheels.
gaz318 2 years ago
Thanks. TE is not grip, it is calculated using piston area, boiler pressure and crank geometry. When the Big Boys were designed, they needed about 135000lb TE, so designed to a weight 4 times as much, assuming friction of 25%.
TE was a political thing too. The Kings were built to exceed 40000lb, but on first overhaul the cylinders were sleeved down.
Duchesses had enormous boilers, and huge grate to the full body width, so enormous power. But Kings had higher power/weight and efficiency.
CoeurDeLoin 2 years ago
excellent video 5*
berwickspotter 2 years ago
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it.
acw71000 2 years ago
Great video. Not really a heavy load though, when you consider a Duches just did the run with the equivalent of 17 coaches on, and the Scot made a far better run with a similar load.
IanCane 2 years ago
Thanks, your comments are correct but don't forget the Kings were not really built for climbing those sort of hills and GW engines need correct coal and driving and firing techniques.
acw71000 2 years ago
A 4-6-0 will grip better on inclines than a 4-6-2, but you must put the firebox between the driving wheels. When introduced, GWR 4-6-0s were a full 30% better on coal consumption than LMS and LNER express engines. Even though the Duchess was later and built by a GWR trained engineer, it never bettered a King on coal or water consumption. Not important for enthusiasts, but very important for companies and shareholders.
CoeurDeLoin 2 years ago
Thanks for your very useful information.
acw71000 2 years ago
Nice one, you can almost feel the tension the driver must have had just watching it, Well I could 5*
doonedave 2 years ago
Thanks very much, the driver really did so well but must have had a few panic moments!!
acw71000 2 years ago
Comment removed
stevbrkr 2 years ago
Ab Fab Austin as usual. Particular praise for braving the Shap elements to get this.
It just goes to show LMS locos beat the rest easily on this type of terrain, when you see the Duke & Duchess flatten Shap like it wasn't there!
Hugh
RailMon 2 years ago
Thanks Hugh, it's horses for courses really with the different locos. A King would never have gone up the Devon banks for example with this size load. The Duchesse's were built to haul heavy trains over Shap. About time 71000 stopped pootling up and down branch lines I reckon!!
acw71000 2 years ago
Fine bit of driving, fine bit of filming. Wonderful stuff, a pleasure to watch.
Framptonjoe 2 years ago
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it, I wonder if we will see her on Shap once more to redeem herself.
acw71000 2 years ago
All abit too much for her at Scout Green. But she packed a wallop at Plumpton and Shap! Still got some unique footages of her very rare trip to the north!
GreatWestern175 2 years ago
Thanks, the train was too heavy I think especially as the weather was so bad. She would have gone up without a hitch with a sensible load.
acw71000 2 years ago
Boy does that thing slip in the second clip! Awesome sound, great footage.
CSX6000 2 years ago
Thanks, great work by the driver to keep her on the move.
acw71000 2 years ago
It looked as if the driver was trying to keep out of sight when he went past; :P
AndreiTupolev 2 years ago
I suspect he was concentrating very hard on keeping the strange beast under control!!
acw71000 2 years ago
Thanks Steve, funny how the weather hasn't changed much on Shap from 1999!
acw71000 2 years ago
Wow , top stuff Austin. I doubt there has ever been a driver more relieved to see the other side of Shap ! I could sense his elation ! Thanks for posting.............Matt.
sarahandmatt13 2 years ago
Thank Matt, the driver did really well didn't he. Wouldn't mind getting three shots on Shap in a day now though!!
acw71000 2 years ago
Absolutely brilliant Austin, and more so bearing in mind the conditions you filmed in. However I went up the S&C behind the King in 1998, and travelled up all the way from South Wales to see her on her first run over Ais Gill, and I was totally embarrassed. She developed a hole in the smoke box door on my run behind her, and the Ais Gill shot is not worth a mention to a GWR fan. Lets hope the boys at Tyseley do it with 5043..that wouls be magical...5* Bob
robmasterman 2 years ago
Many thanks Bob, I was on one of the southbound S&C trips, possibly the one you came up for, which as you say, was disappointing. I have enjoyed a good rub behind her on the Torbay Express though. I think 5043 will be o.k. and should restore some pride to the GWR.
acw71000 2 years ago
Lovely footage of the King Austin, great to see a Great Western tackling shap too... Will be interesting to see how 5043 does in a few weeks :)
Si
Teenagetrainphotos 2 years ago
Cheers Si, I think the Earl will be o.k as Vintage Trains usually operate with a sensible load...it'll be great to hear a Castle's roar in the fells, we want a dry day, no wind and not too warm!!
acw71000 2 years ago
Excellent compilation 5* - The final shot should have a sub title "redemption!". Us ex GWR fans don't like to be reminded of less than sparkling performances in the North. Bob Masterman will be after you! LOL! I think Earl of Mount Edgcumbe is due over Shap shortly. Let's hope she brings her own anthracite! - Mike
NN2Blue 2 years ago
Thanks very much, believe it or not I am a GWR fan too and have had several good runs behind 6024. I saw a comment on a forum suggesting that Tyseley should be sorting the coal lump by lump for the Earls run!!
acw71000 2 years ago
5* Excellent video and nicely put together.
stuvids 2 years ago
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it.
acw71000 2 years ago