Big Fat Greek Debt: Engdahl on bailout way out

[kakvostava]

I knew a Greek guy who told me he was officially registered as unemployed and getting unemployment money while working on the black market full time. A "double-dipper", one would say. He would lay back in his chair and say things like "I am European". True, at that time (about 10 years ago) his unemployment money was coming from other, richer European countries. Not saying that every Greek is like that but still shocking.

[aggelospanatha]

@kakvostava About this greek you are mentioning, it is not all his fault. It is the systems fault that allows these things to happen. When someone really needs to work and the employer sais "I will give you a job but i won't pay for your pension, you decide" (which is illegal), the guy who is desperate sais I will work with lower salary but at least I'll try to take the unemployment money as I will seem as unemployed. Both the employee and the employer are illegal and they should be punished

[kakvostava]

@aggelospanatha Well yeah, I agree. No offense to Greek people but they should have reacted earlier, not after the government pulled the plug. But yeah, the system is surely big part of the problem. Peace.

[aggelospanatha]

@kakvostava at least there are some good things on the other hand, actions are being taken which should have happened decades ago. In 2-3 years' time the greek economy will be much much stronger. The bad thing is that the majority of the greek ppl are suffering while those who are to blame for this situation are millionaires with bank accfounts in switzerland. Take care mate

[rw5791]

america went to iraq to kick some al qaeda ass and that's what they did.They fucked up those al qaeda camel jockey's,check it out on you tube.That's called payback fot 911,capiche?

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 I thought that al qaeda and Bin Landen was in Afghanistan, not iraq...You just didn't like sadam houssein and you wanted iraq's oil

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,al qaeda is everywhere;chechnya,somalia and especially in iraq but the americans beat the shit out of them.

And stop asking the germans for money,get off your ass and solve your own problems.Maybe do some work for a change.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 One thing i know, I'm working more than you.We'll talk when you lazy americans go bankrypt

[alalouna]

@rw5791 Didn' t they tell you? They are in Greece too! Come kill us all. After you finish your pious work it's gonna be only you and Israel in the planet.

[rw5791]

@alalouna ,it seems a cop took a muslims koran in a coffee shop in athens.Good!Did you know that Christianity would have burned out in the first century if there had been no Greece?You are part of the crusader army.You will learn this when you get older.

[3muzic]

Greece is the origin of modernization, but today is in deep financial crisis. It was due to government who did not monitor on her taxation system & corruption. It was also due to laziness of her people, having unprecedented pride, laid back, no austerity drive, not innovative, fake & many more.

[aggelospanatha]

@3muzic why the hell does everyone who has no idea about the greek people say we are lazy?Most of the greek workers are not lazy.We work at least as hard as everyone else.The only lazy ones are the public employees as there is a law here according to which it is almost impossible for them to get fired.Although most of what u said is true, don't put ALL greek people to tha same "bucket"

[3muzic]

@aggelospanatha yep..sorry on that part. Yeah...its all due to the conspiracy theory. WE should examined the roots of the problem & "nip the bud". I am sure there is a controlling country that caused the financial devastation that we termed as "greedy bankers", apart from what i mentioned previously.

[aggelospanatha]

@3muzic well, it is true that the "greedy bankers" "golden boys" are not the cause of our financial situation!Goldman Shacks is not to blame for greece's bankryptcy, our stupid politicians are, and we who voted them!Papandreou is doing whatever he can but it was his party in 1990's who started ruining the economy.He was minister of external affairs then.

[rw5791]

in 1941 germany invaded greece with 3 panzer divisions,today germany loans greece 145 billion euro's.

I say,let's go back to 1941.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 yeah ok, you must be really smart...

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,you're the ones who are broke,dumbass.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 if china stopped buying your debt you would be too, smartass

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,china can go fuck itself but you enjoy your austerity measures,o.k?

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 I don't understand why you are happy with other people's misery, you're pathetic.If you where from a third-world country i would understand it but being an american (at least this is shown in ur profile) makes me wonder...why so much rage against the greeks?

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,because you are socialists,you are the miserable ones.

Americans have died all over the world whenever somebody needed help against tyranny but look at the comments on youtube.Nothing but vile hatred for america,so you can all go fuck yourselves.Greece,spain,france­,ireland...all of you.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 first of all, who told you we are socialists??when u see people protesting in the streets, u say these ppl are socialists?We have freedon here, not dictatorship, everyone can do whatever he wants.May be some communists and socialists are going too much on strike but the course of greece was towards the "west" model.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 @rw5791 Secondly, I absolutedly disagree with some stupid ethicist greeks who are posting stupid things against other ppl, but stupid ppl are everywhere...I admit there is a preception here that americans poke their noses in every country's affairs and claim to be their "saviours" (as ur saying), only to satisfy their imperialistic needs, but this is "potitics" stuff, we don't hate american ppl.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 In fact, I personaly like american ppl and admire your country where everyone gets what he deserves,either good or bad (the opposite of what's happening here), and I'm definately gonna visit US in the following years. A friend of mine went to Boston, he said it's awesome but too much cold...:P

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,imperialists go into countries and control every facet of the peoples lives,where does america do this?Can you give me a country?But, otherwise you sound like you would do well in america but you better hurry because obama is changing the country.He's turning it from the land of opportunity into a european welfare state.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791, well don't tell me that you are so naive to believe that george w bush invaded afganistan and iraq ONLY to save the people there and not for the oil or to capture potential enemies....I'm sure he wanted the american ppl to believe that...there were civilians who where killed there...

What do you mean by "european welfare state"?

[rw5791]

@aggelospanatha ,european welfare state like greece where people sit around on their big fat greek ass's and collect money from the government.

[aggelospanatha]

@rw5791 well, it's not that simple.Most of the greek people did not "collect" any money from the government but THEY are paying through the austerity measures, and that's why they are protesting...The problem is with those who manage public money..there are dosents of scandals concerning huge public expenditures.For example, public hospitals where paying suppliers for medicines up to 500% higher price than normal...I didn't take that money but I have to pay now...

[hrbear]

@aggelospanatha Μην ανυσηχείς παιδί μου και μέχρι το τέλος του Χειμώνα πολλοί θα βγούν με σημαία τον Τσε Γκεβάρα :-)

[webpoboy]

if they run out of money, they should sell their things, like their land, islands, or whatever thy have to the highest bidders

[aggelospanatha]

@webpoboy omg from what ur saying u must be REALLY jealous of the beautiful islands and land Greece has...

[krislyttle]

I like the idea of chopping up the big banks...my machete is almost ready; just need a little sharpening, and I'm good to go on a "chopping" spree in the following order:

1) Goldman Sachs (Man, they NEED to be the first)

2) JP Morgan Chase

3) Citigroup

4) Bank of America

This list is by no means complete, and anyone is welcome to add and/or re-order.

[thegodfather111]

Well that's what happens when you just sit around all day like useless gypsies and fuck each other in the ass...you become lazy, usless, and accustomed to having Germans bail you out

Maybe they should get off their uselss asses and work a bit rather than letting albanians do all the dirty work....who cares about that useless country anyway, they have no care for human rights issues and are hated by the countries around them because they are fanatical..soon greece it will burn to the ground

[QuasiConvexAnalysis]

@thegodfather111

well said. these greek peasants need to get used to austerity - a loaf of bread and a can of water per day per person for the next 20 years - and an 18/7 work schedule to pay off all their debts.

welcome to the real world, greece - no more fantasyzone for you guys.

[kakvostava]

Papadreou has made a caricature of himself, the Greek government, and the whole country. First he tours the world saying "we don't need money, just support" and a few weeks later he is asking for tens of billions of dollars/euros. His plan is too obvious: take the money and run. In a few months the whole Greek economy will have collapsed and then nobody would even think of Greece paying back its debts. Good luck, Frau Merkel!

[aggelospanatha]

@kakvostava if he had got the support he was asking, he wouldn't need to ask for money. You don't need to be THAT smart to see that. When the markets saw that there was no stable support from the EU and especially from Germany, the interest rates doubled and tripled.If Merkel had the guts to support us from the beginning, germany wouldn't need to loan greece a cent

[kakvostava]

@aggelospanatha Well, you got lucky that Merkel had the "guts" to support a bailout plan for Greece to start with. I'm wondering where Greece would be today without the EU financial support. Don't you see how flawed your argument is? You make it sound like: Well, it's all's Germany's fault. They should have given us more money and quicker, as between "real friends". I bet in a few years from now Greek diplomacy will tour the world asking for debt cancelation etc. Good luck to the payers!

[aggelospanatha]

@kakvostava I never said that it is all Germany's fault. The fist to blame are the incompetent politicians that governed my country for the last decade, and the majority of the ppl of course who elected them.However, Germans do not have the right to critisise as they had the chance to prevent this situation from happening by simply supporting us when needed. After all Germany had huge profits from Greece all those years. All technology stuff and military equipment is german.

[aggelospanatha]

@kakvostava Moreover, one of the biggest scandals here was the one with the German company Siemens who stole government money, with the help of some f@cking greek government ppl. Greece bought security systems from Siemens 10 times more expensive than normal. Finally, the most frustrating thing is to hear from foreigners that greek ppl are lazy and stuff like that, when they have no idea of the situation

[Barbarian337]

In my view Greece never belonged in the euro zone!!!

Cooked their books,now it is time to pay!!!!

Their government bonds are @ JUNK STATUS>>

Bankruptcy is the only way out!!!

[eliasmouawad]

Search for

"CIA NEW FIASCO"

amazing

[aggelospanatha]

The only message I'd like to put through is that the vast majority of greek people are neither lazy nor corrupted as I keep reading in the foreign websites.People in the private sector are working really hard, at least as hard as everyone else in Europe and US does. It is really sad and unfair to characterize all greek people as "lazy" and "corrupted" because of some bastards in the public sector

[aggelospanatha]

You fucking politicians, we where the most proud people on earth for our country and heritage and u made us feeling ashamed, fuck you.

Fuck every greek who voted them so that he can have a job in the public sector, so that he would be paid for doing nothing. Everyone is laughing at us, not unjustified. We have the politicians that we deserve.

[caydin]

poor Greeks !!!

but fuck them anyway !!!

[orangedac]

once the IMF virus is injected into Greece the enslavement of the country can begin in earnest.

[Tressco]

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes.

Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."

- Napoléon Bonaparte

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

- Lord Acton

[BITARTEN]

Very bad job EU. This is pathetic, the EU is crisis, finantial debt and next to come misery and Third World economy. The EU is a TRICK and it must be destroyed

[lucius1976]

@BITARTEN

Well, its not the EUs fault that Greece cheated its way into the eurozone.

[aggelospanatha]

@lucius1976 it was legal that time.maybe unethical but legal...

[dangerousslave]

Its all a big plan for the rothschilds to grab more power and control, The IMF is in the hands of the Bilderberg group and the trilateral comission a group of corporations in search for total power and control, this in EU, goldman sachs is the knight in a chess game the IMF ot the WTO is the bishop the queen is the Bildeberg ot the WHO group and the King is the rothschild illuminati organisation.or the UN

[opAir01]

greek is now goldman sachs' bitch.

[freemindx2009]

P.dareou joined with Sachs to rob Greek people.

[solojam]

u damn right, rip these bitches down!

[dpman72]

Goldman Sachs strikes again. Maybe Obama could give some of his Golman money to the Greek govt. Wouldn't count on it.

[btigtime2]

Greece has dropped out of the public eye. Thanks for keeping it in sight. I am wondering where the united states is in the Domino chain of Government crash.

The countries of Brazil, Russia China ares in good shape to watch the rest crash.

[peepeevagi]

Russia's government is horrid, China's government is horrid... Brazil is allright :D

When the 'world' goes down, that means your precious commie countries too.

[btigtime2]

@peepeevagi agreed

[jelleeee1]

i say greece will reject the help of europe

[iFreedom4ever]

Central economic planning, centralised social engineering, central banks, fiat currency, and corporatism is the cause of the Greek demise. Blaming it all on the evil goldman sachs (and they are) is nice populist politics. However, they can not do what they did and continue to do it without the help of corrupt politicians in govt that legalize theft. Corporate fascism failed, socialism failed... Privatize the profits, socialize the loses. This is just the beginning more countries to follow.

[charlessmyth]

The key issue is the alliance between governments and banks, which makes it possible for the risks to be passed to the taxpayers. The advice given by the banks is only problematic if governments choose to act on it. Therefore, the Greek government should be in court, not Goldman Sachs. This is like someone who has robbed a bank and claims that he robbed the bank because his accountant advised him that, because his debts were so huge, apart from robbing a bank, he could not pay his debts.

[Plum369]

@charlessmyth I mostly agree with you, but I would say "AND goldman Sachs" instead of "not Goldman Sachs".

[ejbh3160]

Too Big to Fail = Too Big to exist!

[skazhiprivet]

I think the core problem is organizing society around ever increasing debt.

[caleta21]

That's what Greeks get for trusting the only country in the world who likes to exploit and rob other countries money and natural resources...

What are this people blind???

They rob the world since WW2

[jreed136]

@caleta21 ... The only country in the world to exploit and rob other countries?

Are you fucking kidding me? You're not serious right?

Because MOST countries playing on an international level does that, fool.

You really need to check your facts, but, you're from Peru, can't help it if you're a little behind from the rest of the world.

[caleta21]

@jreed136 come down here and find out how we live before talking... The only thing you probably know about South America is probably Chavez, Cocaine (which the US is the #1consumer btw) and poor people living in the montains. Ignorant fool.

And the fact that most countries do that (like you said), does not remove the fact that the US is the #1 on robbing, killing, invading, imposing regimes, exploiting, etc.

Bottom line, the #1 terrorist country in the world (World Court said it after Nicaragua)

[jreed136]

@caleta21 I know a bit about South America, some countries, not all.

Blaming America solely for the problems of the world RIGHT NOW is beyond ignorance, when in reality, America right now is paying for the transgressions that Imperialist Europe were a part of 200 years ago.

All countries, when they have the power, exercise it on other people. It's not a new concept.

P.s You're little assumption that I don't know anything about South America is just as ignorant as anything I've said about Peru.

[jreed136]

@caleta21 #1 Terrorist government. Learn to differentiate.

[caleta21]

@jreed136 sorry, you're right #1 Terrorist government (since Thomas Jefferson)

[jreed136]

@caleta21 ROFL. Since Thomas Jefferson? You understand that what you're saying is insanely biased, uninformed and ridiculous, right?

Only in recent history, my friend, only in recent history. The bad people of 300 years ago are gone.

[caleta21]

@jreed136 yeah, sorry I meant William McKinley... is not that I'm studying US presidents daily, missed it for over 90 years tho :-)

Well since the US showed how much of a exploiter it is... "helping" Cuba to get freedom from Spain, and inmediatly conquering the whole Island + Phillipins and Puerto Rico.

... So since it's sooo long time the same story repeats itself... maybe is not the government but the whole people?

[jreed136]

@caleta21 You can believe what you want, but you've already proven yourself to be biased and not fully educated on the matter.

The people -YOU- personally should be hating is the Spanish.

But you know what? Most every country has, in the past, given the chance, dicked other countries over hardcore.

So maybe it's not governments or nations that are evil or corrupt, but humanity itself.

[jreed136]

@caleta21 As a government, you're main concern is for your people(Or it used to be) And that is the base cause as to why nations try to get advantages over other nations. It's not an American thing, hell, Americans are hardly the worst in history to operate like this/See Egypt/Rome/Great Britain/

I think you need to learn some more, and perhaps go back and look at the scope of human history and how we treat eachother to see the what I'm saying.

[caleta21]

@jreed136 ha ha...I don't think to go and learn some more :-)))

The world knows who is the bad guy RIGHT NOW ... that is the only thing that matters... Why should anybody discuss on how the British behaved in India, or the French in Algeria, or the Spanish in LA, that's the past.

[RunsWitGuns]

with every video i watch i get more and more pissed off

[peepeevagi]

Then RT's job here is done :D

[Melville10]

@RunsWitGuns So do I. Don't expect the politicians and the policymakers to "save the day". This festering anger here in the USA, I think, may morph into revolution.

[hrbear]

@RunsWitGuns I recently watched a video series by the greek communist party about the debt crisis inside the capitalistic system. It says that Carl Marx said it so in his theory, that debt crisis is a part of the capitalism which it can not be avoided. The system gets through this cycle like in the 30s. As for Greece, there are also other factors except Goldman, there was the stock market artificial balloon collapse, the Olympics, the EU control policy in agriculture, the strong euro and more.