The Difference Between the Mind and the Brain

[paskal007r]

mr russell apparently does not understand that brain is able to elaborate information and that mind is not an experience.

My prescription: less hypothetical phylosophy, more fact-based science.

[ITSBEEN1OFTHOSEDAYS]

till today i knew of no difference.

[PyroManiacKid69]

much like you can't have an apple without a tree, you cannot have consciousness without a brain.

[Rampersaud]

Thank you for posting this video. I just corrected my husband.

[ItsEasyIfYouThink]

They are not totally independent of the other... Without a brain, you cannot have a mind. You need a brain to work, or else you havent got a mind that works. The mind is simply a product of the inner workings of the brain. I am disappointed when people claim that they have nothing to do with one another. Think about it. What is the mind? what is the brain? the brain interprets the horrendous information supplied by the sensory tissues and makes sense of them. Why is not the mind the same?

[Healthified]

2009stickyfinger...umm what have you been smoking? LMAO!!! You're crazy bro

[ventnorian]

your mind controls u, your egotistical self, your unconscious being. stop thinking for a while and feel the inner peace. joy and happiness wont come from your mind only from within!

someone once said 'i think therefor i am'. .... scientists think too much!!

[realveive]

The mind is what the brain does.

[2009stickyfinger]

their informations are working on us with vibrations.The vibrations (informations) are come in brains with our ears.

Then they can control(move) all body,even they can produce dreams and think,and talk!

Animal(move) or people.

This are weating us in future,but is already exist!

EVERYTHING WHAT WAS HAPPEN ON EARTH IS ON "TAPE".

Everything for what we work on have no point!

They are living where is plug,3 stars triangle(Scalene) at the star between Alkaid and Alioth!

[2009stickyfinger]

The truth about a planet Earth!

Our planet (Earth) is a planet,who are controlling a people,wich were emmigrate us on planet!

They do not control just a people,they controling a whole planet!

This are doing with a last technology(who we do not now)with help of sun-with a sun light

they send and accept all informations!

On all living creatures they can prejudicing and with a same technology(with sun light),

[The3nlightened0ne]

@2009stickyfinger

Do you have any further reading on that topic.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I wouldn't equate your "views" with mine. I don't just have views, I don't just have personal experiences, I don't just have subjective predispositions for believing something, I have facts, and research, and objective knowledge that brain scientists have discovered.

How can you have your doubts about deciding between religion and atheism when you stated that you were an atheist 6 months ago?

I'm not here to alter your views, I'm here to put forth rational arguments for everyone to read,

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

sorry, your personal story doesn't suffice for scientific evidence, it doesn't suffice for a proof of soul, afterlife, god, magic or anything like that.

and again, I dont care about your life story, I dont care who you used to be or what you used to believe, I dont care if you have a life or not - all of that shit is irrelevant

if you have something good to put on the table, then do it. otherwise, its best to keep silent

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

I have proved the truth, there are about 50 or 60 of my comments on this board arguing for how we cease to be when our brain ceases its functions. You live, you die - happens to everyone, it is the most obvious answer there is. And only someone desperate for a fairy tale would want to complicate the matter by inventing souls and afterlife. Only someone in denial of the hard truth would want to argue otherwise.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

you know the truth, you know those people don't exist anymore. And you're trying to convince yourself otherwise by trying to sell me the "we don't know enough" argument

and somehow, deep in your death-denial, you think that somehow you are special and that the rule of death somehow won't apply to you, and that in our case, in the 21st century, somehow the there's still a chance to see light at the end of the tunnel

I know your psychology, you aren't the first agnostic I've argued with

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

yes, you are scared of truth, you are scared of death and nonexistence. But you aren't dumb enough to believe a silly religious story, but at the same time you don't have enough balls and integrity to look reality in the face and see who you are. A MORTAL MAN. do you really think that Julius Ceasar is floating around somewhere right now? what about a caveman who lived 50 000 years ago? Is he still around in any way shape or form? what about hitler? einstein?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

I don't need to prove that I have a life, retard

me having or not having a life has NOTHING to do with what I have argued on this board, and only an imbecilic, piece-of-shit loser would think otherwise.

you're not speaking the truth, you are talking out of your ass, and you are certainly not invested in finding the truth, you just want to think that we don't know shit, Bullshit, we know plenty

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"im not gonna think about afterlife or anything and ill just find out when i die"

let me save you the trouble, when you die, you dissipate into nothingness. oh right, you don't wanna hear that, you don't like the truth.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

Again, I am not doing this arguing for YOU, I am doing it for all to see. You aren't fucking privileged. I would never argue with you in private messages, I would only argue with you publicly, because I have nothing to hide and I can take on anyone who can tie two words together.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

you haven't proven shit

I do have a life, but even if I didn't that would have nothing to do with the argument.

the fact that I post over 10 comments in just one minute shows that I am a fast typer. Your comment that I am replying to right now is 14 hours old. Which means that I came from work, ate, took a shit, logged into my account, and saw your yet another retarded comment, so I am replying to it right now. I didn't reply to it seconds after you posted it.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"Oh btw im 14 yes you should feel like a fucking idiot right now."

Yes I do feel like an idiot for still arguing with you. But hey, I gotta show everyone what a useless cowardly retard that you are, don't I? Btw, your age is irrelevant to me. When I was your age I've already read two huge astronomy books and one physics book. I already sorta knew that god was bullshit

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"especially when you can't even spell holy shit."

quote me where I misspelled something, you fucking piece of shit liar.

"So when someone dis-agrees with your book your just gonna call them a pussy and thats it?"

NO. Not if they can put a rational counter-argument on the table that is not based on my age, personality, argumentation flaws, etc etc.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"You can hardly keep up this fucking argument and your supposed to be writing a book?"

There's more of my comments on this board than anyone else's, plus, you are the one coming back to an argument 4 days later, so Fuck you. Yes I am writing a book. and shitheads like you are gonna be included in my personal statistical experience of how people want to deny knowledge and run away from it, thanks for helping me with my research

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"only the tough man cant believe it what he wants?"

No, only the tough man can throw away his personal comfort of an afterlife and other nonsense at the expense of WANTING TO KNOW THE TRUTH. You can't do that because you are still a snot-filled nose kid.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"Im a coward and afraid of knowledge so you think that your such a fucking tuff hard cunt you just have to believe in only the word of science?"

Yes, I know I have to believe every word of science because of unbiased INDEPENDENT research that stems from science and brings benefits to the world. If the world was full of cowardly shitheads like you then we'd still think that the Sun rotated around the Earth, or in your case we'd rather wouldn't EVEN WANT TO KNOW THAT.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"You don't hear christans walking round talking about a pre life do you"

Of course you don't. Because they havent thought about the concept enough, their everlasting life is as far as they want to take their beliefs. Christians are retards anyway

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

"We were dead for bil. of years and we will go back to that way right? sure it might happen and you know what it probably fuckin will but thats why its called a "afterlife" as they say?"

I won't "probably" happen, it WILL happen. Just because something is called an "afterlife" by those who are afraid of death doesn't mean that "afterlife" is true. Just because people say that crop circles were made by aliens doesn't mean that they were.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

God and afterlife were never proven in the 1st place, therefore they dont exist until they ARE proven,that's how science works,shithead

[TheMorbidAtheist]

""Since you weren't interested in the truth" who the fuck do you think u are god?"

Never said or implied that.I know that god doesn't exist, and since I exist, then I am not god.get real

"There is a fucking big line between god afterlife and the moon being made of cheese holy shit"

NOPE,there's only your interest in the subject of an afterlife because you are afraid of death.The moon made of cheese is of no interest to you because it has nothing to do with your brief existence in this universe

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

Its not about everyone thinking the same way you idiot, dont make it out into some bullshit conspiracy. Its about everyone KNOWING the same way. KNOWLEDGE IS NOT FUCKING SUBJECTIVE. Therefore Im not forcing my subjectivity on anyone. I am introducing the OBJECTIVE TRUTHS that were already discovered

And you just another imbecilic cowardly agnostic :"I dont know shit, you don know shit, and we will never know shit" - now THAT is your useless motto. Congrats

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

You went for the personal crap by calling all atheists homosexuals, ring a bell you fucking homophobe?

I explained why I went for your ego, but you couldn't understand my argument, rather, you did NOT want to understand them because of your EGO and WISHFUL THINKING

[Keysteeze]

Many atheist appear convinced that consciousness originates from, and is reducible to only the workings of the brain. This is an unwarranted assumption. We do not yet know what the relationship between matter and consciousness actually is.

- Sam Harris, End of Faith, Pg. 235,

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

so you think we wont agree until one of us "converts"?

so me "converting" or "downgrading" from strong atheism to pussy mushy, I-dont-know-shit and i-am-scared-of-reality agnosticism is even REMOTELY possible in your opinion?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

since I've noticed that you werent interested in the truth, but rather in running away from it, I had no choice but go after you psychology and ego, since that is what's polluting your objectification of reality.

And since you went for the personal crap and the homosexual shit, then I know that Ive hit a nerve somewhere along the way

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

yes, you are biased. Because you clearly favor the ideas of god and afterlife over the ones that I just made up - the ones that are irrelevant to your place in this world.

A few months ago, you made a comment saying that there should be a middle ground since you cant prove the afterlife and I cant disprove it? so tell me, why THESE types of subjects interest you?

I know, because you dont want to know that your own self, your ego, would be eventually destroyed when you die

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

yes, you are held back by your wishful thinking.

If you cant prove that god exists, then he doesnt. There's no middle ground here for a possibility of god if you cant prove his existence

And as I brought up other examples, which you have conveniently ignored, we'd have to allow other completely retarded ideas to be remotely possible even if we cant prove or disprove them, like the goblin living under your bed

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

YES, your FUCKING EGO

I never said I knew you, but I know your scared-of-death psychology

I know how it all fucking works. You relish the idea that there are unproven things because you KNOW that if those things were proven, then you'd still be a miserable temporary spec in the fabric of the universe.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

you'd have to give credence to these claims because you give credence to ANY retarded idea thats out there

[TheMorbidAtheist]

atheists are homosexuals? and here I thought you were slightly intelligent, you are a fucking homopbone now?

ok retard, gloves off then

you are a fucking agnostic retard who would give the same credence to the idea that the moon could be made of cheese since we havent walked it entirely

and you'd give credence to the idea that there is a goblin living under your bed who watches you masturbate every day

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

Im not here to convince you, Im here to show you for a cowardly ignoramus that you are:

"we dont know anything, we cant know anything for sure"

you're just a coward afraid of knowledge

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

I dont "believe" what is proven. I know for a fact the things that are proven

and As I said before, i was an agnostic just like you, and I loved the idea that there were many unproven things in the world so that I could keep engaging in my mental masturbations even after I abandoned the traditional idea of a god

again, what are the UNPROVEN THINGS? and how exactly would those things, if proven, affect OUR REALITY?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Yes,I HAVE been there,and so were u. u and I were dead for bil. of years before we were born,and we will go back to the same state of nothingness after we die.Its as simple as that. I could argue that u were never on jupiter,so aliens could potentially be there because u werent there to witness anything. I could say that you were never on the moon,so you cant know if its an alien base or not. U were never at the bottom of the ocean,so u cant know whether there are aliens bases there or not

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

you are smart enough not to believe those things, but you are still held back by your ego and wishful thinking; because you know that you will cease to be one day; and your defensive psychology tries to make up for your rational part of the brain by inputting the ambiguity and uncertainty for you to dwell in.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

I am 100% sure there is no after-life or god. Just like you are 100% sure that santa claus who drops presents down the chimney never existed in the first place. But you choose to make exceptions for some ideas that implicate your role in the universe, like the afterlife and god

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

what EXACTLY dont you know? and what do you NEED to know to make some fundamental facts about the ABC's of life? you need to know why carbon and oxygen were created? do you need to know how they were created? do you need to know how old god was before he decided to create the universe? do you need to know how god can be all powerful yet he can never cease his own existence? what exactly dont you know by this point? the necessary knowledge is all here.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

right, you're not asserting a positive, you're just playing a game of "I dont know, you dont know, and we will never know" - because it is convenient for your comfort zone. well bullshit. we know, smart and unbiased people KNOW, and we arent afraid to speak of what we know about the facts of life.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

how can we possibly know that its parallel to WHAT or not?

so, humanity should be held back by made up retarded, imbecilic, totally unsubstantiated, bullshit ideas and theories because "well, we cant know everything for sure, well we dont know whats beyond the moon"

are you saying that we should give EVERY bullshit charlatan idea some credence until it is DISPROVEN? that way, we'd have to waste so much time arguing to retarded people that what they made up is retarded.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

again, the "unproven" things you speak of are not TRUE until they are proven

there is no afterlife until it is proven

there is no god until he is proven

there are no mermaids until they are proven to exist

right, no human has been past the moon, so by your reasoning, it is plausible to argue that the moon is made of cheese? since we obviously havent walked the entire planet, right? where do you draw the line?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

yeah, well just because thats what people make of him (god/being) doesnt mean that they dont have to back up their assertions. People make up all sorts of crazy shit, and none of it has any credibility until it is independently scientifically proven

what can you link a hob-goblin to? or a fairy? or a mermaid? or a orge? what can you link those things to?

so you are linking a parallel universe to a word that you didnt create? and what word is that?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

how can you link god to a person/being? those are two different things as I said; a frog is a being, can it be linked to a god? well maybe to some ancient Amazon tribes. And again, why WOULD you want to link them? again, I can see the bias in your argument

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

what made those atoms? nothing "made" these. I can see the obvious bias in you if you are resorting to words like "made" and not "created". The atoms were ingrained in the fabric of the universe the moment it was born.

"how did they come to be" - how is that relevant to the facts of our existence? what sort of an answer to that question would fix ANYTHING on the planet? what value can the answer to that question hold?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

prove what? prove the absence of the negative? like I said before. Its not my job to disprove the positive assertion of people who claim that a god exists. I can throw my scoffs and logical impossibilities at god, but the core remains that the one who first ASSERTS a positive has to prove it.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

god is not real. god is made up by people who could not even build an outhouse.

exactly MOST, like I said. now explain how any answers to the questions that you have posted would have ANY relevance upon our materialistic and deterministic existence?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

we KNOW that all life on earth is related to the first reproducing molecule, and now we are here, just eating, reproducing and dying. or did I miss something?

What caused the big bang? 51% of matter winning over the 49% of anti matter. again, how is THAT relevant to FACTS of our existence? consumption and reproduction. And what sort of answer to that question would rectify the state of life on earth right now?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

or walking pussy lips? or santa claus?

what caused life? - 3 atoms, carbon, hydrogen and oxygen which were fused together to form an unbreakable and stable molecule that was able to reproduce itself most likely because of a consistent thunder strike that stroke the primordial soup. Let me ask you, what is the point of knowing what caused life? we know what life is based on.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

now you're just arguing semantics

Ive asked you 3 times to state these "unproven" and "unexplained" things to me and you still havent. Its obvious that you dont WANT those things, whatever they are, to be proven or explained, either that, or you really dont know what you are talking about

how can you link gods to a person? these are two different words with two different meanings

how can you link parallel universes to ANYTHING?

what can you link a green hob-goblin to?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

is THAT you argument?

so if I say that we still use the words like "parallel universes" and "gods" then those things exist?

what ARE the unproven and unexplained things? try me and I'll answer most of your questions if not most of them

its not about your beliefs or mine. Its about the newcomers and fence sitters who will read these comments now or later. And hopefully they will be swayed by the strong unbiased facts of our reality

[TheMorbidAtheist]

what are the unproven things then?

what? I will explain anything that you aren't sure of. Try me

where does it say that not everything can be explained by the way? or do you just like the idea that not everything can be explained?

I know where you are coming from. I was an agnostic for a month before I turned atheist. And I rejoiced in thinking that there were still some comfort zones for me to dwell in where the deterministic material facts of our existence wouldnt interfere

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

why cant I accept that something things are unexplained? why? so you could shove your god in some knowledge god? no thanks. pretty much everything is explained now. and your ambiguous god or whatever it is has no place to hide anymore

""you live, you eat, you fuck and you die" - "That was already very apparent.""

then why are you arguing with me?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

how can I prove the nonexistence of a positive assertion?

if there IS in fact meaning to life, then its a positive assertion. But Im not asserting that. Im asserting NO meaning, until some sort of a universal mandate is given by the creator of the universe. Since that hasn't happened, then there is no meaning of life. Unless YOU can prove that there is if you are aiming at proving a positive assertion. Thats how it works

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

yes, there is no meaning of life.

Where am I arguing otherwise?

you live, you eat, you fuck and you die

the process keeps repeating because newer people keep getting created

[TheMorbidAtheist]

if you are even slightly asserting a positive then its your job to prove it, Im not gonna play the: "I might be wrong about this..and we can't know everything for sure" game

Im not here to convince you that you are mortal and when you die then you will never exist again, you already know that. You are simply in denial. I am simply here to voice facts about our reality to those who might be fence sitters.

I am taking this over the top because people need to get FUCKING REAL, its 2010!

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

i have life outside of a computer too. So what? but I will always continue arguing because I am strong in my convictions, I will not leave unanswered bullshit unchallenged.

if you cant prove there is an afterlife than there is no afterlife, im not going to settle down for some middle ground where both sides of the argument have a fair shot.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Frogalooninator, Im still waitinf for your proof that there is an afterlife

and for your proof that we will still have our minds after our brains die

if you run away from the argument, then I know you are full of shit

[VriakII]

Can you prove you dream have dreams when you sleep?

For a long time I was confused by dreams and later traveling when awake to places which I had seen before, but not "in person".

Proving there is an "after life" is some what like proving radio waves with out a receiver: if you don't have the ability to tune in and receive, how could you understand.

When you scream, "PROVE TO ME THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE", do you realize you are asking to be killed in this life? what else could "prove" to you?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

"Can you prove you dream have dreams when you sleep?"

re-phrase the question, it makes no sense

so what, dreams are something super special now? we know what dreams are. Its a hybernating brain function that does the calculating of the subtle or vivid past or possible future events.

[VriakII]

What dreams? Prove your dreams exist.

Prove to me there is an experienced hallucination which takes place within your brain in this thing you call "sleep".

And, while you prove that, prove that at some point you stopped hallucinating and are now sharing a conscious experience with anyone else. Prove you awoke from any dream, if you ever had one.

Do this scientifically, if you can.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

proving there is an after life is retarded. You want there to be an after life because you are afraid of death, you still havent counter-argued me on that one

When I scream PROVE TO ME THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE, it means that I want you to prove there is an after life if you claim that it exists.

I am asking to be killed in this life? What the fuck are you talking about?

[VriakII]

the only way to PROVE to you would be for you to experience; ie to "die" and find out; what other scientific proof would satisfy such a demand? In your own words, you ask for a retarded proof. Dieing is a scientifically valid experiment to test your sincerity. If you really want proof, take the experiment.

I am far, far from afraid of death myself. I prefer to hope there is no "life after" here, but experience has shown me otherwise.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Wtf do you mean "what dreams". You want me to prove my dreams exist? I'm not gonna argue this nonesense, of course my dreams exists, EVERYONE DREAMS.

people DREAM every night. But not everyone remembers the dreams they had. Science showed that dreams only last for around 20 minutes, but when you dream it may look like they last for hours

[TheMorbidAtheist]

You want me to prove that at some point I stopped hallucinating and now Im sharing conscious experience with anyone else? Im not proving that, because IM NOT CLAIMING THAT, I never did. You started this dreams bullshit, because you have nothing else to say. You are so desperate for fairy tales that you're gonna bring dreams into the equation like they mean something significant.

You are just talking out of your ass

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@VriakII

Here, let me claim something: When you die you reincarnate as an elephant on another planet. There. The only way for you to disprove that claim is to die and see what happens? see what I did? I just made that up, I just pulled something out of my ass, do you believe that?

what other scientific proof would satisfy my demand for you to prove there is an after life? how about a non-fabricated video tape of this "afterlife"?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

how about an experiment in controlled scientific conditions where the dying person actually somehow survives death? how about a dead person coming back after being dead for 3 days? In my own words I ask for PROOF, not for a retarded proof, what you claim is retarded

No, dying isnt a scientifically valid experiemnt to test my sincerity. If that is so, then dying should be a scientifically valid experiement for you to see if you will reincarnate into an elephant on another planet.

[smsjgoku]

@TheMorbidAtheist yea science can really see everything and can analize it perfectly wait a remember a fact that pidgeons and bees according to science shouldnt be able to fly and yet im sure they can and why do you need evidence for everything i mean look at the theory of the big bang which many scientists belive which states time didnt exist before it happened well that makes it impossible for anything to happen yet it did so that sounds a bit hipocritical to me yet many belive it

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@smsjgoku

according to science pidgeons fly because the pressure they create beneath their wings keeps them elevated. Where does it say that according to science bees can't fly again?

I need evidence for everything because that is how science works. If you dont need evidence for everything then you willfully choose to be ignorant about certain things and you willfully succumb to wishful thinking.

what does pre big-bang state of everything have to do with anything important?

[smsjgoku]

@TheMorbidAtheist first of all i was showing how even though the pre bang theory is a stupid theory it doesn get seen that way because its a scientific theory and acording to science bees cant fly because their wing are too small to support their body and you realise by needed evidence to belive in anything is actually being ignorant because your not open minded about anything that has no evidence to suport it

[TheMorbidAtheist]

the pre bang theory is irrelevant to the facts of our deterministic existence

the fact that bees actually flies is irrelevant tot he facts of our deterministic existence

why should I be open minded about ANYTHING that has no evidence to support it? why?

by your reasoning, you'd have to be open minded about an invisible golblin living under your bed, wouldn't you? are you being open minded about it? or are you only being open minded about things that make you feel good? like life after death?

[smsjgoku]

@TheMorbidAtheist well lets see if there was something living under my bed im pretty sure id know because thats something easy so if there was no evidence that space existed you wouldnt belive that either and if you belive everything about science but you say pre bang theory has nothing to do with out existence then what does, also you claim beliving anything is being ignorant when im sure an ignorant person would probably be the one who needs evidence before they belive anything

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@smsjgoku

I clearly used the word "invisible" golbin, so no, you can't see him. But Im telling you he is there, are you being open minded about it?

there is evidence that space exists, but if there wasn't evidence, I wouldn't believe space existed, exactly

[smsjgoku]

@TheMorbidAtheist well if something wasnt able to be seen then itd still be there for your other senses and well im not going to argue anymore because its next to impossible to persuade a close minded person to think more clearly i mean if you have to see it to belive it theres just no point

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@smsjgoku

now you're going to argue semantics?

the invisible goblin living under your bed is quite agile. he is very quiet and he is always able to avoid you except for when you sleep. thats when he comes out of bed and starts dancing next to you all night long. As soon as you wake up, he goes back under your bed

but I assume Im not gonna convince a close-minded person like you that an invisible goblin lives under your bed

what am I close-minded to again? that's right, made up bullshit

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@smsjgoku

no, pre-bang theory has nothing to do with the facts and circumstances of our existence. - 4 billion years of evolution, trillions and trillions of animals slaughtered by us and eaten alive by other animals, and us just being another species of animals who happened to "luck out" and get bigger brains

what has to do with the facts of our existence are the facts of crude evolutionary process that only gives a fuck about your offspring.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Im not gonna die on purpose just to see if you scared-of-death people are right. I know for a fact that you are wrong, because I know your scred-of-death mentality. You simply cant accept death, thats why you invented after life in the first place

yeah right, now you're gonna openly lie about not being afraid of death when you keep ragging on about afterlife. Your experience isnt reliable scientific proof.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

To your deleted comment:

My mind is my spirit? wow. whose ass did you pull that from? exactly there is not any scientific proof, I dont know why you put the word scientific in parenthesis, as if to dimish the word SCIENCE. but yeah, there is no scientific proof of your spirit

and I AM sure about it, the reason I get jumped up about it is because you people just want to believe that shit, just admit it.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

There is no afterlife because if there is one then where would your mind go? and what would your mind do with eternity? what would your mind do after the last star in the universe dies?

if you believe there is an after life, then tell me, at which point in our evolutionary history did we acquire the ability to have an afterlife?

you just want to believe in after life because you are afraid of death, its as simple as that

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@Frogalooninator

do you have any PROOF, factual proof that if there is an after life we will not have a brain but we will still have our minds?

GIVE ME PROOF OF THAT

Yes,I can prove there is no after life

It is really easy. When our brains die, WE die with it. There is absolutely no rational reason for anyone to believe that WE somehow survive death. you just WANT to believe so. You base your belief on a wishful thinking, I don't

[ZeroKelvin]

Using analogies to describe something as complicated as the brain/mind connection undermines it's complexity.

[bobcolgan]

I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers Consultin' with the blind. And my head I'd be scratchin' while my thoughts were busy hatchin' If I only had a mind. I'd unravel every riddle for any individ'le, In trouble or in kind. With the thoughts you'll be thinkin' you could be another Lincoln If you only had a mind. Oh, I could tell you why The ocean's near the shore. I could think of things I never thunk before. And then I'd sit, and think some more.

[AlphaSigma10]

consciousness/mind/spirit is the eternal experiencer of events; the brain is like a transmitter/switch-board of events;

 the mind processes data instantly, whereas the brain processes data slowly, which it then interpretes, configures into picture images, and then reasons out a meaning according to its own understanding, often distorting original data;

when the brain is made quiet, (meditation), then the mind produces a flow of data most pure to reality, (perfect for remote viewing ...)

[cloud1232006]

So basically consciousness takes a body hostage and uses it up until it's dead then it returns to the sea of consciousness...

I kind of understand a bit better the differences, but... I still don't see how it's possible to separate the two... There's no brain without consciousness... or at least, there's no use for a body without consciousness... In conclusion... consciousness and body have to be one in order to exist in this thing we call "reality"

[phobosx12]

very reasonable..dig it

[phobosx12]

by consciousness i assume he means just simple awareness, like the brain is the film in a projector but the light is the awarness ,the film shapes the light the brain shapes the awarness

[AlphaSigma10]

there is no brain without consciousness, but there is consciousness without a brain; (consciousness is eternal, unlike the brain);

consciousness is the observation and subjective experience, transmitting itself through the brain; were the observer without a body, this observation would be instant; but to the brain this would be an information explosion, too many data at once; primarily, it must configure data for survival oriented meaning, since it is the body's headquarters for survival

[jojoisthebest]

i think wat everyone needs to understand is that the brain, is a physical thing, while the term, "mind", is used to describe the actual process of controlling the brain through our own will and organizing the information... the brain only recieves information while the mind makes something of it...

[edgeguy99]

You are speaking for yourself. So I didn't make it personal, It was personal. You and me. Personal. And since you can't (and until you do) prove that the mind and brain are one, it's your belief. That's all, nothing more. Does a mind/brain connection make sense? Sure. Do a lot of very smart scientists think so. Sure. Has it been proven. No. It's a belief. Or better said, a commonly held belief.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

wrong again

im not speaking for myself

I didnt make this shit up, Im simply reiterating what science has explained to us so far

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I just FUCKING explained how the mind is affected when the brain is either damaged or under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you're not going to address that because you have no counter argument

its not a BELIEF, its a FUCKING FACT

only people like you who strive for some fairy tales because you're not able to handle reality want to believe that it's a common belief

[whitenightf3]

The Mind is Pure, it cannot ever be effected, you are confusing perceptions an epiphenomena of the brain with mind.

In philosophy there is the Zombie my guess is that this phenomena is more prevalent than we think. lol

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I can put a steal rod through your brain so that you can survive, but I guarantee that you will be brain damaged for life

so this pure mind of yours that cannot be affected will be fucked

[whitenightf3]

There is a news story from yesterday a Chinese boy had an accident with a chop stick and it entered his brain. It does not seem to have destroyed his mind. In fact nothing can destroy the mind it is immortal not even physical death.

You are making a generalisation I may not even have a brain. The point is brains are tangible and the mind is not. Far to many Scientists use the terms synonymously, but they are not the same thing.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

yeah, so you are gonna pick one story out of a thousand to demonstrate your point

yeah, there was also a guy with a nail in is head, and he has been walking with it for months and constantly felt head aches

the point is that MOST such injuries result in permanent brain injuries with severe consequences to consciousness, but of course, you will conveniently close your eyes to most such injuries

[TheMorbidAtheist]

the mind is immortal now? do you have any proof of that? so the mind is gonna float around the universe in 100 trillion years when every star in the universe turns into black holes, brown dwarfs etc?

the POINT is that mind is in the brain, and once the brain is dead, so is the mind.

the bottom line is that you WANT the mind to be immortal, thats why you arguing for its immortality

[whitenightf3]

In order to answer your own questions you have to go inwards and ask the mind. There is only one what you seek is doing the looking. The brain does not contain the mind just like it does not contain consciousness it is just a conduit for mind and consciousness which are labels of the same thing.

Only when you are dead will you realize your horrendous mistake.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

those were rhetorical questions. Because the answer to them would make no sense, because the premise about the immortal mind is already flawed

and how do I go inwards and ask the mind? I am asking you, since you assert the mind is mortal, so I can only assume that you went inwards and asked the mind.

there is only one what I seek is doing the looking? english please?

[whitenightf3]

You have obviously not paid attention to what Russell is saying. You need to meditate to get in touch with the Mind. Only then will you realize it is immortal, how does one destroy something that is intangible, it can never be destroyed.

Anyway you are a materalist you seem to think that material scientists have all the answers and they don't, hence they cannot prove Consiousness arises in the brain and they never will. Over and Out.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

how do I mediate to get in touch with the mind?

did you mediate to get in touch with the mind?

if so how did you come to a conclusion that it is immortal? why is it mortal? how is it immortal? and which point in our evolution did we acquire the ability to have immortal minds?

the mind is not intangible. Like I said before, brain damage will squash your mind and so far you havent counter-argued that, even though I asked you repeatedly

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I dont think material scientists have all the answers, i know they have all the answers. Is there something that you feel we dont know, I will be glad to point that out.

Science has proved that consciousness arises in the brain, it doesnt arise in your ass.

yeah, over and out? yeah run away from the argument.

go live in your fairy tale where your mind is going to traverse the universe forever

[VriakII]

Actually, science has not proven "consciousness" at all, much less it's location. if you are referring to electromagnetism in the brain and pretending that is consciousness, you have some pretty major stumbling blocks within the scientific community. The cardiac magnetic field has been measured as substantially larger than the one in the brain.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

science has not proven consciousness at all? so we are not conscious? right

its location? its located in the brain

That's right, we DO have some pretty major stumbling blocks within the scientific community - mumbling, stumbling phantasmagorical professors professing that there is or ever was a "problem of free will"

not sure what you mean by the cardiac magnetic field and what it has to do with our brain

[VriakII]

you make assumptions claiming science backs you up; there are no definitive, reputable scientific claims placing consciousness in the brain indisputably. Quantum physics as well as modern medicine has tremendous trouble with "consciousness" and the magnetic mention was assuming you had a sincere "science/ekg" backing belief for your comments. Considering your post id, you are more likely just someone with a chip on your shoulder.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I dont make assumptions, I state facts. You are the one trying to dilute the facts with your mush, because you want "consciousness" to be this magical mysterious thing, because its the last refuge for half-rational people to wallow in and think that they are great, original and mystical creatures endowed with super powers and a special meaning in life

consciousness is in the brain, and when the brain dies, "you" die with it, and so does your consciousness, DUH

[VriakII]

An interesting claim, can you back it up with facts?

[TheMorbidAtheist]

now, u're going to pull this quantum crap, like it means something. Q physics is an error science. it measures ERRORS, 'cos its practically impossible to study Q particles because of their movement

I do have a chip on my shoulder, because people like u still prefer to wallow in this "problem of consciousness" shit when there is no problem in the first place

u try to turn a fairly simple concept into a complicated 1 because it suits ur emotional needs

I am a realist, I dont need that shit

[VriakII]

You are not a "realist", you are an antagonist who makes idiotic assumptions about other people and their motives. A typical sign of a little and narrow mind.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@VriakII

no, the only way for me to disprove afterlife is not to DIE and experience what happens next, that is retarded. That is NOT how science works

Science DOES NOT claim after life, YOU people do. People who are scared of death claim that and if you do that, YOU are the ones who have to prove it. I dont have to prove anything, YOU have to do that.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

yes, the brain does contain the mind and it does contain consciousness, because if your brain is damaged, your mental capacities and mind are also damaged - are you going to counter-argue that or not?

when im dead, I will be dead, permanently. And when you are dead, you will also stay dead, permanently

[dvisk]

He just said that the mind is related to the brain. why dont you try opening yours.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

@dvisk

you want me to open my mind to any sort of bullshit? no thanks, I'd rather my mind remain closed to that

obviously mind is related to the brain, but he acts like its two separate entities and NO, the mind CANNOT exist without the brain, but the brain can. People can be clinically "brain dead" but their brain will still be alive, their unshakable, super powers mind however will be fucked for life

[Calikush999pr]

the mind is the most powerful tool you as a human being will ever use

[ghostdog650]

I still don't get the difference. Someone help me? I keep thinking that the mind is a just a construct of the brain so that the brain is what is really real.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

there IS no distinction between the mind and the brain; however the delusional, phantasmagoricals, "futurists", happily-ever-afterists and spiritualists like to make a distinction

[oojamaflipper]

you're comment-soldier No. 1!

D&Gers ftw! (tho we'd probably not appreciate it if we did, being manic depressives of course..)

[edgeguy99]

No distinction?

So if I chopped off top of your head with a power saw and looked inside, I would see your mind?

I'm not even sure the mind resides in the brain.

All thinking could be done externally and the brain is just a radio reciever tuned to your frequency.

I'm not saying that (because I don't know) but I think I have adequately distinguished the two.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

you won't see the mind, fucking DUH

its not a physical substance, you will only be able to see my brain - and that is where the mind resides, it doesnt reside in our assholes

[edgeguy99]

TheMorbidAtheist ?? You should rejoice in knowing there is no judgment! Anyway. Yeah, you would see bloody gunk. No mind at all. The question was can we distinguish the two. I think we have. There is another point. Can the mind live without a brain? I don't know. Hang around here long enough and you already know the answer to, can a brain can live without a mind? ;-)

[TheMorbidAtheist]

what does my nickname has to do with the argument?

no, the mind cannot live without a brain

[edgeguy99]

"no, the mind cannot live without a brain"

I don't know that.

We don't know that.

Here you go!

You dropped your sense of humor.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I know that, for a fact

[TheMorbidAtheist]

you think you don't because you are desperate for a fairy tale, consciousness and mind are simply a product of the brain - that's what the brain does

if you don't know that, then try to speculate and tell me where do you think the mind is located?

[edgeguy99]

Your proof minded, correct? Where's yours? Didn't think so. The question was, can we distinguish between the mind and the brain. Remember? So I think we have done that already. This other stuff is just mental masturbation that will go nowhere. Oppps, you keep dropping this! No wonder your so serious. Here you go, take it. Looks like your sense of humor again. Here, let me brush off the dust for you. Better get that hole in your pocket fixed.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

my proof is that the brain is responsible for eyesight, central nervous system, endocrine nervous system, reasoning, sleeping, regulating body temperature, etc etc - I wont even name how many things the brain is responsible for

it is also responsible for CONSCIOUSNESS, just like its responsible for eye-sights, its a simple property.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Brain dead people arent conscious for some reason, hmm, why is that I wonder? when the body is sleeping we arent conscious for some reason, hmm why is that? when we take drugs, our consciousness starts playing tricks on us, hmm why is that? BECAUSE THE BRAIN IS AFFECTED

where is this proof that somehow, this particular property is somehow magical or unknowable?

the mind which is a non-physical substance, is a product of the brain which a physical substance

[edgeguy99]

Prove the mind lives in the brain. Good luck. Now don't get me wrong. I never said the mind lives anywhere. You say the brain and the mind are the same. That's great, believe that. I'm saying it can't be proven. What's to say the mind isn't 1,000,000 miles away and the brain is just a computer. It runs digestion, breathing, information storage, etc but can't think and the mind tells the brain what limb to move and what to say. The mind is the operator. The brain is the machine.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

why would the mind be 1000000 miles away?

how the fuck would it get there?

fine, I allow a 0.00000000001% probability that this is all just a computerized mind-fuck program

based on that tiny probability chance, I will still state that mind resides in no other place than the brain

[edgeguy99]

Fair enough.

That's your belief and your entitled to believe what ever you want.

You don't believe in God and you believe in the brain/mind connection.

Just remember that what you believe is a belief and not fact or fiction.

Unprovable, it's a thought you might of had 1,000,000 miles away and nothing more.

That is, of course, until it is proven.

Till then, Ta Ta.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

please stop trying to make it about me

its not "my" belief, its what 95% of the brain scientists believe

and this has NOTHING to do with whether I want to believe that, if I could, I would like to believe that we have immortal souls that live in parallel universe and that we can do anything after we die

but there is no evidence for that

therefore there should be no reason to believe that crap, unless you are REALLY desperate for bullshit and fairy tales

[RadicalAwesomeness]

I don't think that you can prove that this conversation is actually happening.

What if you're just a... computer program generated in some alien supercomputer, on some planet in the star system Epsilon Aurigae and nothing more?

What if consciousness is just an electrical illusion designed by alien overlords and you and me are nothing else then information stored on some hard drive?

I don't think that it can really be proven that it isn't so but in the mean time I'll believe that it is :)

[edgeguy99]

So, what exactly do you know about Epsilon Aurigae that your not telling us?

You know something don't you?

[RadicalAwesomeness]

Ah, but what exactly do you know about the mind, might I ask?

I'm sure you must know something.

[edgeguy99]

I'm not sure if I have a mind or it has me.

Not only that but sometimes my mind has a mind of it's own.

Then (but not limited to) I could be 2 minded about something.

Although 2 heads are better than one, I never got another so I can't say.

I've given pieces of my mind but I never seem to run out.

I guess it's because so many have given me a piece of theirs.

I have a left and right brain but my mind seams to lack a direction.

At least that what Dad used to say.

[edgeguy99]

"Brain dead people arent conscious for some reason, hmm, why is that I wonder? "

Imagine a broken radio reciever.

Lets pretend that's the brain.

The transmission occurs elsewhere but the reciever is broken and unable to deliver the message.

I'm not saying that's how it happens.

I'm saying you can't prove it doesn't.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

bad analogy, I can think of a better, more realistic one

imagine a broken light bulb

let's pretend that's the brain

other light bulbs are still functioning, because those people are still alive

the light bulb that's dead is just that, dead, permanently

[AcousticSpade]

you just said it... the brain is real becuase you know it to be, because your mind tells u it is

[yuvi420]

would you say if animals have mind?

[laffytiffy126]

I would say not because the mind consists of your feelings, choices, memories, personal identity. We feel, we have choices, we have memories and personal identity but animals live off instinct, we don't.

[yuvi420]

but can't animals remember us... animals can tell difference between square, and triangle

[newjersey02]

Yes animals have minds, The only problem is they can not talk like humans.

[BingoTheClowno666]

many animals are self-aware and have a sense of identity. They most certainly have memories. Just like us, they have feelings and choices. Also humans act on instinct a lot.

[edgeguy99]

Hi Bingo.

I think what humans have that animals don't is a past, present, and future.

Without that I don't think there is consciousness.

I think time is a needed ingredient for awareness.

I also don't think animals think about thinking like we are doing now.

They just have thoughts.

Thoughts are not the same as thinking.

How is that for a new subject?

[SuperDaveOkie]

Actually, the truth of the matter is that we, as humans, are conceited about our place in the universe. Animals, do, in fact learn. Many species are capable of problem solving. Apes do not have an instinct for using tools. However, they do learn how to use them. Elephants show reverence for their dead.

[rickwyant]

the "mind" is a product of the brains activity. The "I' , "mine", "our" talk is the illlusion of self.... no brain = no mind ... thoughts aren't out there floating around///

[mohamedbongfish]

well, that was a cute bald assertion of massive metaphysical implications based solely on uncritical introspection. thanks for your time.

[ShaolinHero1]

he makes me feel smart lol

[supralee]

he thinks he knows!fun indeed!