Jainism PART 1/2 - A.E. #594

[youthank8]

this caller seems to have joined Jainism as a fashion statement

[NoCommentChick]

for me the only thing I don't understand about Jainiism is that their idea of "right conduct" seems to include different rules for men as for women. Despite jettisoning the creator god idea they still seem to have a lot of backward thinking baggage when it comes to sex and homosexuality. How is Jainism different in this regard from evangelical christianity? I am not attacking anyone's religion I'd just like to have some explanation since I find other parts of Jainism fascinating.

[zayedsalim009]

@NoCommentChick there are no different rules for women in jainism .what are you talking about?

[chirectomy]

Jainism is like Buddhism, it is (usually) atheistic, but it is not naturalistic. Even though they do not worship a god, they still believe in other supernatural ideas like an immaterial soul, reincarnation, etc.

[ganados0]

@chirectomy Atheists can believe in the supernatural (werewolves, ghosts, UFOs) and reject scientism and naturalism.

[chirectomy]

@ganados0

I agree. Atheism is a single position on a single issue: disbelief in any deities. However rare, an atheist might accept any number of supernatural ideas. I still object to the term "scientism." Also, UFOs are not supernatural, and life likely exists somewhere else in the vast universe. It is important to distinguish extraordinary or far-fetched claims from supernatural ones; UFO claims must be handled differently from claims about the existence of ghosts, angels, or gods.

[haohyou12]

Jayne, the man they call Jayne

He robbed from the rich

And he gave to the poor

Stood up to the man

And gave him what for

Our love for him now

Ain't hard to explain

The hero of Canton

The man they call Jayne!

[anushka21396]

and buddhism and jainism started at the same time ..... mahavira and gautum buddha were born in the same era and hinduism is the oldest of all

[zayedsalim009]

@anushka21396 get ur facts.. Jainism is the oldest one, even before hinduism.Buddhism was much after that.Jainism has hardest principles to follow.

[Abbadon380]

@zayedsalim009 wait what Hinduism is the oldest religion there is its

[zayedsalim009]

@Abbadon380 Obviously Jainism is much much older than Hinduism. Hinduism is recent phenomenon drawn out of Vedic practices. people might not know much about it, cause its hard and not that popular.

[anushka21396]

this guy is pretty much wrong .... jainism doesnt believe in creators but staunchly believes existence of a higher being and gods ..... jains are not atheists but are they most religious of all others ......of course there is an existence of souls ....we all are and that is the main purpose realization of this soul !!!!! why do people speak when they hav no knowledge .......

[NoCommentChick]

@anushka21396 What is the name of these higher beings? How are they called?

[kamina77]

Islam is the way people, Islam is the way

[overether]

I'm glad he mentioned Sam Harris. I've never heard anyone give a a more intelligible explanation on the teachings of Buddha than him.

[MissLoveTantei91]

@MunkyDrag0n Fallicious, but frankly completely harmless. And I highly doubt there are any social reprocussions by leaving that religion. I honestly WISH that... if any religion at all, that this one had been the one to catch like widlfire, instead of the Abrahamic religions. With a rival in Buddhism (as Islam rivals Christianity). Yes it's not perfect and I would rather see more Humanistic people in the world, but if it be a religion, than be something like Jainism. *sigh* Well, I'm sad now.

[MunkyDrag0n]

Jainism is not atheism by the logic that it believes in the supernatural, phenomena and beings that cannot be observed by science.Though it is not as damaging to morality as other religions, it is still fallacious.

[MunkyDrag0n]

@MissLoveTantei91 Don't let that get you down. Unfortunately, selfishness is cheap and easy. It empowers people, lets them live out their deep desires. I am a Buddhist agnostic and I feel that way all the time...

[MissLoveTantei91]

@MunkyDrag0n Yes. We can always hope and work for a better future. :)

[adishmehmi]

What an freaking ignorant prick this guy portraying such a opposite image of Jainism. People living away offshore have a very little clue about the practice and connotations of this one of the purest Religion. First of all Non-Violance is practiced not only in Jainism but Hinduism and Buddhism which will lead to attain liberation. Jainism mean one who conquered the internal enemies and impurities of the soul like attachment(raga) and hatred(Dwesha) to be omniscient and omnipotent

[coolnim007]

burn in hell u fuckers



[ciaochowbella]

@coolnim007 It's your god and your hell. YOU burn in it.

[bhavvv]

I've been an Athiest for ages, but I've always been interested in Jainism and Budhism.

The thing is that I love their peaceful philosophies, but I dont believe in their spiritual / soulful hogwash.

So basically, I'm still just a pacifist Atheist.

[robto]

@bhavvv I don't think Buddhism is a pacifist, peace and nature loving religion as many westerners might think. But I do consider Jainism a very pacifist philosophy, even somewhat extremist.

[christianjerk666]

Most atheists are "non-christians" they mainly argue against christianity and then make the mistake of grouping all religions together as though they are all exactly the same.

The caller obviously is not a Jain and does a terrible job explaining Jainism.

[jadapac43]

@christianjerk666 ALL atheists are non-Christians. None believe in god. We group religions together because of that non-belief in god. Also when grouping religions we use arguments that apply to all religions. When arguing against 1 religion, we use arguments that apply to that religion.

[InKa4484]

@jadapac43 Not 100% sure but i think it was Thomas Jefferson had a drafted version of the New Testament without all the references to god or Jesus as a god. Someone who follows such a book as a moral guide is not a Christian in your opinion or would they be? Many gnostic traditions could be considered Christian and with their great diversity i'm sure some of them do not believe in a god.

[jadapac43]

@InKa4484 I don't think they would be.I think that a belief in god makes a theist nor a deist and the outlet of that belief is the religion. I, as well as most atheists (I would think) celebrate Christmas and Easter Christian traditions, but do not acknowledge god as the basis for celebration, this makes one an atheist but not Christian. My opinion only.

[InKa4484]

@jadapac43 So if someone lives by and studies "The Moral Teaching of Jesus of Nazareth" the same way a Buddist studies and lives by the teachings of Budda, is not a Christian? I doubt the majority of Atheists live in Christian societies where Christmas and Easter are celebrated. I'm not an atheist but i celebrate the winter solstice and the vernal equinox which are the basis of those holidays and if i were a farmer i think i'd appreciate them more.

[jadapac43]

@InKa4484 If you were to live by the moral teachings of jesus then you would be either be following the gospel as a whole or choosing morals from the gospel. If your following the gospel as a whole then you are a christian as you follow Jesus's teachings. If you pick parts of the gospel as morals and ignore the god side of the gospel, then you are picking and choosing morals that you agree with therefore creating your own moral code, not jesus's.

[InKa4484]

@jadapac43 I'm specifically referring to "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" written by Thomas Jefferson. It's Jefferson who picks and chooses the moral code but I've never met a christian who didn't pick and choose in the bible.

[jadapac43]

@InKa4484 I follow many morals of Jesus, but am not a Christian. I celebrate Christmas and easter, but still am not a Christian. If an individual followed that specific book "The Life and Morals of Jesus", but knowingly followed these morals because he liked them then he is still not a Christian. If he followed them only because Jesus wrote them maybe he is a Christian, but I am hesitant to call him this as modern day Christianity requires belief in god. I don't know if anyone like that exists.

[dayvconsir]

Watch your pride and trust in your knowledge there Jain.

[mrhardik]

@cdkcurtis: what do you think this guy doesn't know about Jainism. According to me he's rational Jain and not stringent follower of Jainism. He's practicing Jainism as his thoughts, which is valid in Jainism. "Anekant vaad". Although, the way Mahavira led his life is the ultimate and traditional way of jainism, some guys like caller has redefined/used jainism to promote their views which may be he don't see at the moment..

[skeletonpain]

JAINISM

IS A WAY OF LIFE

IT BELIVE IN NON-VIOLENCE

IT MIGHT BE WRONG

OR RIGHT

BUT I STILL BELIVE THE CONCEPT OF NON-VIOLENCE(AHIMSA)

[GBJ83]

@skeletonpain until somoene rapes your family

[whatwouldleardo]

who the fudge is this douche on the phone???

[Evolvedprimate]

If we were to adopt Jainism with the idea of no violence we would run out of oil in no time.

[zipitup75]

@Evolvedprimate lol true, but at the same time we wouldnt, because if we were at peace with everyone we wouldnt fight for oil we would share it like we were family

[trueleroix]

He says that he doesn't believe in a soul, but when I look up Jainism it says that the first core belief is that every being has a soul. Go figure.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix janism doesnt require belief, you miss the point

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 Then you need to change every source that I have found on the internet about janism, because they all contradict your statement. I believe that it is impossible to have missed this point. Also, I must be skeptical of you now until you explain why every source that I have found states that you are absolutely wrong.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix I was born in the Jain tradition, the concept of the soul is explained but is not expected to be believed without testing. It merely proposes a philosophy based the conditiion of suffering due to the circle of attachment, the idea of a soul, the subsequent cleansing of the soul trhough karma shedding, and the resulting escape from life and death. It is up to a person to make the decision of a theoretical physicist to trust a concept and follow it or not.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix jainism sets up complex depictions of matter, energy, particles etc. that can be tested. Someone who is following the jain way of life does not necessarily understand or want to understand jain cosmology and physics. in that sense jainism is actually two things: theoretical physics and a way of life. The way of life is dependent on the theoretical physics as it explains why, but most jains trust the way of life without inquiry because its still a decent way to live on its own merits.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix now just because jainism explains the theory of the soul and we may/may not currently be able to test this (I cant lol) just as we cannot test all aspects of string theory does not mean it is not the truth. The point being that until the next einstein confirmd more cool things jainism as a doctrine does not require you to believe in anything. For example jainism was right about relativity and nature of particles, but it was wrong about the flat earth. Its not a religion

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix imagine jainism like this: you are an atheist(or 98% agnostic), living a decent moral life of your own accord and although you are not a scientist yourself, there are scientists present in your world that can test things for you, you also go to parties with your friends. Jainism is exactly like that: they are atheist, try to live moral lives, have modern day scientists and ancient theories to test if they wish and some enjoy going to the temple with their friends.

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 I appreciate that you have typed all of this, but I am going to use the pages and pages of published material that I have read as my source on jainism.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix just read the tatthvartha sutra and ignore all else. You can only read the tattvartha sutra properly through self enquiry and you will come to the same conclusion. it willl take you maybe 4-6 weeks in english. Reading random material from wiki is not going to educate you. How can you get an opinion on something if you have millions of conflicting views written by people with different agendas maybe to make it sound more western/more palatable/more appealing/easier. Anyway forget it

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix having said that if you find anything in conflict with what I say, let me know where you find that jainism says you have to believe in something it says. trust me you wont unless its bullshit, but you trust what you want

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 Everywhere I look it states that Jainists believe that souls exist, so if you want to show that this is bullshit, please do. I await your source.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix uh wow, I guess you can't read english as you clearly did not read a single one of my comments. Good luck to you in life, sir. Begone with your trolling

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 I actually read all of your comments, and now that you have called me a troll, your psychological transference is quite apparent. I guess you could go and remove all of your comments, unless you like being exposed as a liar.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix 1) you either did not watch the video or you chose to troll by saying "Jainists"

2) You claimed because the caller doesn't "believe" in a soul he MUST disagree with jainism based on "pages " you read, but cite no source

3) I explained that jain theories are meant as mere postulations that are to be discovered through self enquiry and nothing else. I cited the tattvartha sutra and after all that you still state that Jains must believe that souls exist

i prefer to leave the comments

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 1) I corrected that to say Jains. Your pointing out of this detail reveals your petty nature. 2) I claimed that what he states contradicts all of the many sources that I have found. No citation for you. Look it up yourself. 3) I read your explanation, and have declared it worthless. The tattvartha sutra speaks of souls. Chapters 2-4 are about the soul. This whole "you don't have to believe it" angle of yours is crap. Of course you don't, but then why read it?

[trueleroix]

@GBJ83 Or, jains, i guesss that they are called.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix there is no good or bad in the world, it just is. some actions are said to attach heavier karmic particles to your soul, some actions lighter particles, but there is no good or bad really, just the theory that every action has an reaction. SO to become pure and escape this cycle you have to do NO actions(not even what may be considered "good") lol which means your soul is free.

[GBJ83]

@trueleroix jainism is sort of the antidote to all theistic religions of old although it came before, liken it to modern day atheism. A militant jain in this case is not someone who blows up building but one who believes doctrine without fact and he will not see the real truth. So in effect its ok to believe in the doctrines blindly because you will lead a "moral" life because of it, but a true jain will lead a moral life of his own accord and will test the teaching or find them out on his own

[robertwc82]

it depends on how you define "free your soul" as an atheist i could accept the idea of freeing your soul if it was in a purely metaphoric sense.

[ManofManyPasswords]

@sk8boardk03 Fuck Jainism and fuck Niggers too LOL

[ahfaakashjain]

u talk ........anything but not what it is u do not know much or know nothing about jainism

[fernbap]

Jainism is worshiping Janis Joplin

[sanghavic]

this is cal it infertility (Abhavy)

[sanghavic]

this is call it infertility ( Abhavy)

[nrgshkl093]

stupid nri he knows nothing !!

[nrgshkl093]

i know a lot of jains and they are {most of them} just a different flavour of hindus and most are "identical" to hindus btw im a hindu

[2302vvv]

i would like to ask this people who think they have grt8 people with knowledge what is the cause and purpose of their life and why and what for they r living in this universe not earth only.

[ronakdaga]

IF THIS PERSON KNOWS JAINISM . HE WILL NEVR TALK LIKE THAT . I LL REQUEST BEFORE LEARNING JAINISM OR SPEAK ABOUT JAINISM............ LEAVE YOUR EGO .................. THEN ONLY YOU KNOW ABOUT ESSENCE OF JAINISM.

[PosFlow]

@ronakdaga What?

[Excaliburproxy]

Earlier. Someone denied that Jainism is for pussies.

I agree.

[MrSigma]

I would like to see an "Advaita" caller on this show! Just to see Matt's response !

[MrHappyHumanist]

Yes, it is quite vague, to be honest. Perhaps giving some more definition to what you mean by "spiritual" would help.

[empbac]

'Spiritual' is an empty word. Has no meaning. There is no evidence that consciousness lives on after death, or that other realms exist, or that living a certain way will grant more enlightenment or happiness than another. If you meditate, how is that spiritual? You're manipulating the signals in your brain, causing stress reduction. Drugs can have similar effects. That doesn't mean that such things aren't useful, but that they don't actually connect us to anything outside our own minds.

[lookatmepleasesir]

@empbac of course it has no meaning. If it had no meaning it would have no use, and nobody would use it.

[lookatmepleasesir]

@empbac I meant to say of course it has *a meaning

[MrBoomable]

Matt is denying the concept of spirituality and soul.

Its not that he doesn't acknowledge it separate from a creator,he just says there is no proof of the fact that non-violence frees the soul,simply for the fact that there is no reason to believe so.

[truth2748]

The so call jain that called in has no clue about jainism.

[ManofManyPasswords]

Because he says he fallows the teachings of this group, religion, cult, but doesn't believe the taught outcomes of the actions. I think it's bullshit as well.

And Jainism is for pussies

[DeflocculatedDentist]

@ManofManyPasswords "Jainism is for pussies." It's pretty brave to stare down the barrel of a gun and not try to fight, and I know women who I can guarantee can kick your ass (not to say you're weak, I don't know you, but "pussy" is a fucking stupid connotation). I do Krav Maga, and there are some women in my area who do it as well that I would never want to spar with.

Non-violence and karma don't seem like "cult" ideas to me, but cult is just short for culture anyway so whatever.

[discoverybg31]

Yes, it does. If you don't believe that, try to define it to someone who believes in one of the monarchal Christain church.

[JrFLYnnIV]

I disagree with the idea that beliefs are causes or motivators for action. I think beliefs are justification for action. Your needs are physical, your thoughts are physical, you conform your thought to meet your physical need.

[priyalgshah]

Hey Rohit..!!..I hav hrd "Half knowledge is dangerous "..I think same is the case wid u...U knw nothin abt the principles of jainism....u need to remove the dust from ur eyes to see the truth...

[Xigano1]

AARRRGGHH !

HIPPIES !!!

[theduchkin]

The book "I Sold My Soul on Ebay" was written by a Jain and I don't remember him saying in the book that Jains don't actually believe in a deity...

But hey, that's what google is for.

[manishjainpt]

This Guy who is speakng on behalf of all JAINS' ..how much does he knows of the principals!!!

[Anekantavad]

Once again, we are in trouble by an over reliance on words.

[Spanky00Cheeks]

WOOT!

Engineering!

ERTW!

[cdkcurtis]

This dude doesn't know a bit about Jainism!!! Please don't talk about something you don't know.

[AstralOpeth]

@cdkcurtis exactly what did he say that was inaccurate about jainism?

[CupisHomines]

@cdkcurtis that's what I was just about to say

[RamoneHoffman]

@cdkcurtis Enlighten us, Professor.

[averylbrooks]

"Jainism regards every living soul as potentially divine. When the soul sheds its karmic bonds completely, it attains God-consciousness." From wiki...

Still not as good as the great Unicorn god. Although I will say that Jains seem kinda stuck up in a way. Through non-violence they can be better than the rest of us... shssh, makes you want to go beat one up right? lol