William Buckley interviews Billy Graham on the decline of Christianity on Firing Line (1969)

[encomiastic]

Just because scientists may believe in God doesn't in anyway mean that science is helping prove that God exists.

[read1communications]

Yes, I appreciate both Buckley, and Graham.

[smutyhouse]

Billy graham wanted to bomb Vietnam’s irrigation system, which it’s thought would have killed around a million people. A truly evil man, who is in no position to preach to anyone.

[TheClam88]

@smutyhouse hmmmm ...very interesting

[ZenShroud1]

@smutyhouse Indeed. Another zealot who received infinitely more love than he was capable of giving. Good riddance.

[PixieCotton]

StaunchComic is a bad person.

[jonesey5168]

I believe that Graham was going to have Scotty beam him up after the interview

[jonesey5168]

"NIXON was from GOD" - what a douchebag

[CarCriticAssessor]

FYI: PSALM 105 (read: the pre-rewrite of the recent 25 years -- check your old bibles vs. new ones) lead monsters: Manifest Destiny; not all Jews ascribe to Talmud’s -- as detailed in the Jewish Encyclopaedia – sickness; Talk reality, re WHO ARE THE REAL JEWS vs. the Zionists -- check out the historical facts ASSERTED by the God fearing true Jews: erudite, sincere & super-bright hard-working morality steeped loving people: contributors to society; but, Operation Susannah: ouch!

[StaunchComic]

I love Rev Billy Graham he is a good man! God bless you Rev Graham and your beautiful family.

[smutyhouse]

@StaunchComic he's a nasty anti- semite, not a good man

[fermos11111]

one hair on Billys head is killing me.

[StaunchComic]

@fermos11111 lol



[danielbalter]

Yet Billy Graham--as far as I know--has never denounced Imperialistic American foriegn policy.

[steveinchelsea]

We all knew WFB was a total fraud, but he was nothing compared to the ol" Rev Billy. To say there's a 60% or 75% belief in God by scientists, either then or now is total....hey the guy just makes this stuff up! And who is the one scientist he cites, the ex-Nazi slave labor master, Werner Von Braun, which is not surprising if we have listened in on Graham's and (act of God) Richard M.Nixon's taped anti-Semitic rants!

[steveinchelsea]

I don't know when this was taped, but today the estimated percent of religious scientists is about 7%.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea Where did you pull that number from??? The most current study on the subject - ("Religion Among Academic Scientists" done at the University of Buffalo) Showed that 52% of scientists claimed no religious affiliation. But, that's just religious affiliation. One would logically assume the number would be higher if asked about belief in a personal God. The study also showed that younger scientists are more likely to be religious than older scientists.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations I heard that % somewhere recently. I could do some googling, but it's just my sense that most scientists do not believe in the supernatural, and I'm sure they absolutely do not believe in creationism, that the universe is some 8000 years old ! If you could give me the link to your study, I'll take a look at it.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea There is an abstract here: caliber.ucpress.net/doi/abs/10­.1525/sp.2007.54.2.289 - but, you'll need a subscription to get the full paper. That's the only link I have, sorry. If you want to try and find it yourself, the name of the paper is "Religion among Academic Scientists: Distinctions, Disciplines, and Demographics" by Elaine Howard Ecklund and Christopher P. Scheitle - Published in: "Social Problems" May 2007, Vol. 54, No. 2 - University of California Press.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations I'll take your word for it, but I'd like to know if the scientists were polled about creationism , also life on other planets, a belief of Graham.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea They weren't polled on any possible belief in creationism. They were merely asked if they identified with any religion, and were queried as to a host of standard demographic type questions - age, marital status, field of study, number of children, etc., Nor were they asked about a belief in life on other planets. The purpose was to find out what percentage of Academics are religious, and if there were any sociological factors that might correlate with whether they are or not.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations OK fine. What are your views?

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea My views regarding whether there's a God or not? I'm a Diest. So, while I subscribe to no kind of dogma, I do believe that an intelligent creative force was most likely responsible for the creation of the Universe that we observe - the creation event taking place, as best as we can currently tell, somewhere around 13.5 to 14 billion years ago. I believe that reason and logic naturally leads the unbiased observer to this conclusion.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations OK, that's reasonable enough. I'm not sure Graham or Buckley would go along, however!

[DreadSentence]

@BloatedSensations Where did this intellegent creator come from? An unbiased observer would be humble, respect the good work of science and the beliefs of others and simply say,'I don't know'. If a person believes the belief of another harmful, that person can take action (debate/reason/fight), the ethics of this are an entirely seperate question. All this arguing about the existence of God is wasteful,there is no answer and so, no end. We should concentrate on the effect of belief in the world.

[BloatedSensations]

@DreadSentence "Where did this intellegent creator come from?"

I'll be damned if I know. But, I don't need to know where, to whom, or under what circumstances Picasso was born in order to suspect that somebody painted Guernica.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations This answer illustrates the typical deist's total lack of intellectual curiosity. I , and judging by the tons of biographies and other writings about and by Picasso, many others are VERY interested "in the circumstances Picasso was born in" and his life in general that led to Guernica.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea Don't be ridiculous. Did I say I wasn't interested? Or that one shouldn't be interested? Or that it was uninteresting in general? No. I said that in order for me to suspect that the work was painted by someone, knowledge of the painter is not a requirement. Are you saying that you disagree with that statement? And, please, don't put words I didn't write in quotes.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations to do a lot of projecting unto us who choose to reject a fantasy world Atheism simply means a NON belief in the supernatural. For you so sensitive about how you are quoted (I "m sorry I quoted you saying "in the circumstances Picasso was born.."instead of "under what circumstances..") you throw a lot of verbiage my way I'm not sure you even undestand. If materialism is being concerned with the real issues of the real world, and not the delusions of others, yes I am guilty.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "Atheism simply means a NON belief in the supernatural" - It seems that is indeed what most Atheists would like us to believe. A lifetime of personal experience, however, has taught me that beyond any doubt, with regards to *most* Atheists, it's complete bullshit. *Most* Atheists do not simply hold a passive non-belief. They hold a very positive rejection and adhere to dogmatic principles of philosophical materialism and naive-realism.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea Of course, that, in no way, is merely a passive non-belief. But, claiming such allows them an easy out when the need for them to evade some uncomfortable situations arise. It's a cheap, but very commonly employed, trick which provides them the ability to, among other things, still feel confident in their views while they avoid some much needed self-examination.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea In short: Sure, Atheism in and of itself is simply a passive non-belief. But, in reality, most Atheists aren't JUST Atheists - they are, to varying degrees, proponents and adherents of a dogmatic materialist philosophy. And, there's nothing about that which resembles any sort of passive non-belief. But, they seem to have no shame in jumping back and forth whenever it suits their desired ends.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations Strictly YOUR opinion my friend, don't project your untenable beliefs on me, thank you !

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea Besides, your statement is patently ludicrous. Practically every Deist I've ever known were Deists, in very large part, BECAUSE they possessed an absolutely ravenous curiosity. Deism is a philosophy without dogma or ideology - one does not come to Deism except through a process of independent intellectual digestion.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "lack of intellectual curiosity", you say? "Typical" you say? As opposed to what? The dismissive Atheist who refuses to consider? Who clings blindly to the dogmatic precepts of materialism, and the creeds of naive-realism that have been laughed away by every significant philosopher over the last two or three millennium, while lacking the the basic intellectual apparatus required to even realize this about themselves? Please!

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations My apologies. I meant "theist". Now deism as I understand it , and feel free to correct me here if I am wrong, is the belief rhat there was a God the creator, but He stepped back after creation and did not involve himself thereafter, in the affairs of man. Now that is supposed to be a more "progressive" faith than dogmatic fundamentalism, but it still doesn't make much sense to me Maybe you can explain it to me. Now as far as my atheism, you all, theists or deists, want

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "Now deism as I understand it , and feel free to correct me..." - Not really. Some Deist's believe that, some don't. Deistic beliefs are at least as varied as, say, Christian beliefs. Protestants believe in the ultimate authority of scripture, for example. While Catholics believe in the ultimate authority of the Pope. And, the differences go on and on. But the core principle common to all Christian faith is the idea of Jesus Christ as Messiah...

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations OK, my definition of deism corresponds to that in a religious dictionary I have. It does not mention anything about Christ the Messiah. But I'll leave that to you. What I reject is what you and others like to do is to create a straw man to group all your opponents so you can easily smash it after some easy ridicule ".Atheism simply means a NON belief in the supernatural" - It seems that is indeed what most Atheists would like us to believe." Well excuse me, but that's what

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "It does not mention anything about Christ the Messiah." - Of course it doesn't. It's not a Deistic concept. It's a Christian concept.

"you and others like to do is to create a straw man " - Please show me where I've attempted to create a straw-man. Stating observations regarding the nature of Atheists is not creating a straw man argument. It's a valid observation. ...and this straw-man accusation coming from someone who opened this exchange with a blatant straw-man! Brilliant!

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations Look you can't go around creating your own definition of those you don't like, than heap a lot of unfounded pejoratives at them. It's intellectual dishonesty, but unfortunately rather common now. You are not capable of reasoned discourse, and I'm not going to play your silly games, so I am through here. You can have the "last word" if you get off on that sort of thing. Happy solstice !

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "Than heap a lot of unfounded pejoratives at them" - Again, this is rich. You do realize that your initial, unsolicited, comment contained both a straw-man argument and one doozy of a pejorative. But, it was you who first accused me of putting forth a straw-man argument, and now you're accusing me of throwing around pejoratives. You're quite the piece of work, my friend.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea "Well excuse me, but that's what..." - I assume you would have ended that phrase with "...that's what [I believe]"? Well, perhaps that's true. i don't know you well enough to say one way or the other. But, if that truly is all you believe, my experience tells me that you are then in the minority of Atheists. That is NOT simply what most Atheists believe - even though they do seem fond of espousing just that.

[BloatedSensations]

@steveinchelsea It's a common misconception that a fundamental tenet of Deism is the belief that a God created the universe and then stepped back and ceased to involve himself. Some Deists believe this, others do not. The core principle common to all Deists is that an intelligent force was most likely responsible for the creation of the universe, and that the application of man's ability to reason leads the reasoned man to this conclusion.

[steveinchelsea]

@BloatedSensations the dictionary SAYS it is. On your premise you would put Marx and Ayn Rand together philosophically when all they shared was atheism. It's like saying "oh yeah, you say red heads just share the same hair color but a lot of them are also pick pockets too!" Well maybe some are, but a lot AREN'T ! I myself shy away from "ism's" in general and certainly any kind of dogma and reject being categorized in any belief system. I try to look at the evidence and think for myself.

[BloatedSensations]

@DreadSentence "An unbiased observer would be humble, respect the good work of science and the beliefs of others and simply say,'I don't know'. "

The good work of science says nothing, one way or the other, regarding the possible existence of an intelligent creator. The second part of your statement is nonsensical. It's perfectly reasonable to hold an informed opinion even if certitude is lacking. "I don't know" and "I'm not certain" are two different things.

[BloatedSensations]

@DreadSentence "All this arguing about the existence of God is wasteful"

That's your opinion. Mine is quite the opposite.

"there is no answer and so, no end."

As far as is your belief.

[BCPowerman]

@steveinchelsea Actually, it is around 40%.

[steveinchelsea]

@BCPowerman I did a random google search and generally it was a lot lower than that, but I won't quibble. Graham's estimate is plainly ridiculous.

[steveinchelsea]

@BCPowerman I don't know where you got 40%, but in yesterday's NY Times they cite a 1998 survey where 7.5 % of physicists and astronomers at the National Academy of Scientists said they believed in God. Now I doubt that figure has trrended upwards in the last 12 plus years.

[Lavulo187]

William Buckley was a CIA agent?

[Lyle1196]

I love both men. God Bless both Mr. Graham and sole of the dearly departed Mr. Buckley.

[starkweather444]

Buckley was a cryptonazi, Bill Graham was an overt Nazi.

[russcd1]

Graham would make a great Nazi

[russcd1]

reverend douchbag.

[rubbersole79]

@russcd1 One of the weakest comments I've ever read.

[wormdrink414]

Billy Graham was an anti-Semite, a liar, a fraud, and a savvy businessman.

[catndryer]

@wormdrink414 commenting about the man gives you none of his credibility.

[arlibrarian]

That was a rather odd point to cut the interview off, it left me thrown a bit. Billy Graham believes in life on other planets and further theorizes that only earth is in a fallen state. It actually made me think of CS Lewis' space trilogy, I wonder if those works influenced him in that regard.

[sdsvfgs9]

God bless you Billy Graham, we love you in Christ!

[Alen2379]

two wonderful men. intelligent, clear-eyed, confident. really inspiring!

[WhenLilacsLast]

Billy Graham, as is his wont, makes fantastic declarations and supports them with flimsy, fallacious almost trivial reasoning. For instance, 60% of a sample of scientists believed in a personal god is somehow evidence a jewish carpenter-turned-local-rebel died 2000 years ago in modern-day Palestine for the sins of humanity.Buckley who usually overexerts his intellect to uproot such polemics gives Graham a free pass.Clearly,William F is a sly old hypocrite.

[Cool2BCeltic]

Note Dr Graham's rather intimidating stare. He will never leave his rather cranky fundamentalist Christian beliefs. He is just a fanatic who uses the same techniques of mass emotionalism as Hitler did.

[bodeezy]

Hey youtube...your new format on comments sucks.

[spurs27FL]

God bless everyone!

[jbarks10]

Haha, Billy Graham is completely deluded! Why is Christianity in decline? Answer: Because it's FICTION and has no more credibility than the tooth fairy.

[fctchk]

Graham's delusion though much more vocal and on public display is no less rampant than was Buckleigh's who sourced his in Catholicism: One of the longest running most successful scams in history run by a posse of pedophiles fittingly under the cross crowned baton of a former nazi youth who wears dainty red shoes, a frilly dress cloaked in a red mantel with white trim -the envy of every department store Santa Claus, topped off with headgear appropriately modeled after a dunce cap.

[ThinkHell]

Graham is too ecumenical. Now he affirms Mormon theology which puts "beings" on other planets?

[procommenter]

Who is the celestial embodiment of goodness? It's of no wonder as to why, it's a question that provides no cheer to squatters as Michael Jackson's presence was more powerful than 80 pounds of Ex-Lax.

[luvdomus]

These are two classic 20th century American personalities and two more pompous frauds never shared the same screen.

[JonnyLawrence]

Great clip! Two of my all time favorites....

Unfortunately there will always be some "weak minded" individuals who will "spout off" about subjects they know nothing about.

They spew their venom while unknowingly working as pawns for the great "Charlatan"...

Kinda like the schmuck below me

[bodeezy]

Isn't this old fraud dead yet?

Charlatan preying on the weak minded that need religion in their pathetic lives.

How nonsensical to be spouting off about revelation & "believing in life on other planets" with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

I'm so glad that christianity is falling apart & religion is dying !!!!

[neonchesticle]

Who are you to claim that there is no God? Not to say you aren't entitled to your own opinion, but to wish for the death of another human being because the man in question voiced his opinion is as ludacris as your personal perception of religious indevours.

[bodeezy]

I claim that there is no evidence for any gods, ever.

I wish the lying bastard would die because he has caused much harm in this world by pushing religion & his fabricated, ancient "morals" on others. He had influenced generations of bigotry, hatred & delusion on weak minded people.

I don't wish death on him just for voicing his opinion, which I believe is not his opinion but playing to his audience.

If you claim that there is a god then show us evidence / proof. Otherwise, go away.

[returningwolf]

Proof?

This only shows that BODEEZY KNOWS NEXT TO NOTHING ABOUT THE REAL MEANING ABOUT THE BIBLE AND IT SAY A FEW TIMES THAT IS NOT ABOUT SEEing BUT HEARING. BODEEZY Do you hear? If his G-d tellS him to preach about the creation of man and many men of faith ecumenical cause to pick up the Torah/New Testament and they do good they feed the poor care for the widows ,care for the homelessa. Say a new faith is coming have hope, what have you given? They do help and YOU! FAN THE FLAMES OF HATE.

[bodeezy]

More evil actions have been done in the name of a god than any thing in the history of man.

The most generous philanthopists in the world are atheists: Bill Gates & Warren Buffet?

Funny how some crazy person can say that "god" told them to say or do something & you nuts find it "moral" & beyond reproach. But if some nut says he is doing something because his invisible friend "Larry" told him to, then that person is deemed insane.

If god is talking to ya, go see a psychiatrist nutso.

[SaudaraLink]

If we are just a bunch of molecules floating around, how could you say this man has caused any harm? How could you say that bigotry has caused problems, even.

[mowriter]

W-O-W!

Billy believes there are beings on other planets, but only people on our planet are in rebellion against God!

This is....an amazing concept, and a new twist on science fiction ideas. Most assumed a first contact would spell the end of faith. What if it becomes a larger affirmation of faith when we discover the other species also holds to a similar belief?

[Churchofgodman]

God Bless Billy Graham

[dinosaurjr]

BIlly graham believes in fairy tales.

[loveroftruth7]

And what do you believe in?.......Not very much I shouldn't think!

[pravaslavet]

A devout Christian (of the Catholic variety), WFB charged forward as a first-rate questioner of gravid concerns.

[WayToTheGrave]

Buckley is as impressive as always, Billy Graham on the other hand just comes off as fascinating. Not because I believe he's a harbinger of absolute truth, but because in this clip, he epitomizes the cultural shift that the world was experiencing in just a relatively short decade.

[metalpsalm]

Lovin me some Buckley!