Riz Khan - Palestinian 'Right to returm' - 13 May 08 - Part1

[kenteles]

why the fuck are we arguing here...open the UN website and see that a resolution has been made that permit the palestinian right of return...you zionist are sick twisted imbecile assholes...

[warpedcomedy]

Palestinian refugees are almost gone. Almost all "refugees" are descendants of actual refugees. Refugee status is gained, not inherited.

[Englishdosser86]

@warpedcomedy Their self-identification as 'refugees' is based on the idea that they have been exiled from their homeland. They still have the intention of returning to it. Really the labels are slightly superfluous. Surely every proponent of Israel understands the Palestinian argument intimately. After all, Zionism was based on exactly the same principle, just instead of 60 years, it was over millennia.

[odokokan]

most of the 700,000 arabs that evacuted their towns in 1948,were egyptians that imigrated to israel in the 19 century.others where non-arabs mulsims from the balkans,and only a few-arabs from iraq and moroco that recived lands from the mamaluks.

many of the arab towns - old jewish towns,like yavne,tsipori.it is clear that the arabs drived away the jews from those towns during the 1300 years of the oppresive mulsim ocupation over israel.if a jew was found by an arab,the arab would say:strip jew!

[IBeatUpThugs]

This man can't be serious expecting Palestinians to go to Israel, most of them have never set foot in. Get over it and move on so there can be peace.

What about the Jewish refugees from the rest of the middle east? These slimy Palestinians want a Palestinian state, plus to live all over Israel where they will multiply like rabbits with their inbred kids and eventually turn Israel into an "Islamic republic". Plus no compensation to Jews from other countries in the middle east. So greedy.

[MetaLX1985]

Zionist Jews are not just the enemy of Palestinians, they are the enemy of humanity. However, we as a human race can not escape them, it is destiny, but I believe one day we as a human race will triumph over this evil.

[TARASTWO2]

isriael does not want peace, at least not the govt. they are bullies and oppressors. both sides are to blame. but israel has the power thanks to our welfare checks and millitary aid.anyone can be tough facing a boy with a slingshot when your in a tank.

[xayaad88]

the palestinians will have thier full return inshallah

[TARASTWO2]

Palestinians have teh right to return PERIOD

[vadimzdonutube]

let me ask u something, what about the jewish refugees from arab countries, do they have the right to return? so why should these palestinian pests return

[Masixihua]

Where the younger man consistently refers to real experienced history and the emotions, the elder also leans to an emotion when he demands, in a very paternalistic way, that the whole discussion is framed wrongly. I think he feels the right of return for palestinians would amount to a return to Jewish homelessness and vagabondism. In his logic, he believes conquest to be acceptable national behavior, even legal. What if the tables were turned?

[murk2002]

The Palestenians need to give up on the right of return, because it will never happen. How will you have the Jewish state if the palestenians return, Israel will never let this happen. The palestenians need to straighten out their own situation with Hamas and Fatah. Also, over a million Jews were expelled from mid-east countries, do they have the right of return?

[bxkorupt]

The elite versus the indigenous‚ the elite steal the valued land of the indigenous‚ which they respected unlike the lawless and greedy elite it never ends

[AlyBlack]

This "right of return" is just a conspiracy to vote Israel out of existence and will never happen, so keep whining about it, its your time to waste.

[renegade20062609]

yeah, tell that to apartheid S.Africa! You remember those guys! lol, they thought that they could control Africa forever, talk about stupidity. Now we have the last one standing, thinking that they can control the arab/muslim world. Fortunately, you are right, the right of return won't happen because the zionist entity will nolonger be around.

.

'Just like Apartheid S.Africa, it was a stupid idea thought by men who clearly had too much to drink

[nipomocarlos84]

The Palestinian arabs are the same as lebanese the same as jordanians the same as their historical homelan in saudia arabia they lost 3 wars agains israel so stop crying you dam hajis kafhers let ISRAEL BE.

[lastnymleft]

The zionist guy is demanding right of return for jews, but the Khazar jews from Russia (a large section of the Israeli population) have absolutely NO association with judaism or the middle-east, apart from mass-converting to judaism hundreds of years back. The jews with the greatest claim to a relationship to the Palestinian lands are the Sephardic jews that migrated to Ethiopia. White European Ashkenazi jews and White Russian Khazar jews treat the black Sephardic jews like second class citizens

[AlyBlack]

I wish Hitler had agreed with you, but since this argument is silly he would not have.

By the way, it is the Askenazi Jews in Israel who are sympathtic to the Paelstinians, the Sephardic remember what it was like to live among Arabs and have no sympathy for the hate filled Palestinians.

It is the arabs who created the misery of the Palestinians, most are from Egypt, Jordan but they are not welcome in those countries. How come Israel takes in refugees from Russia, Ethopia, South America etc.

[renegade20062609]

Thats bewcause, a thief always wants to show off stuff which is not his. How comes Apartheid S.Africa took in people from other countries?

[lastnymleft]

What a piece of work that Jewish guy is! He's big on demanding the Arab world pay for Israel's reparations. What's the matter? Can't get the American's to pay for it? I guess even the Zionists don't want USD anymore.

This, after bragging about how rich Israel is relative to the Palestinians. 25:1 ratio, he says. But still the Arabs should pay for Israeli reparations?

"Don't worry about the past. Look to the future", he says repeatedly. What criminal *wouldn't* say that?

[lastnymleft]

JoeOhlson - Nationalism is not a prerequisite for ownership of land. The suggestion that land in such cases is 'terra nullius' has been rejected by the courts repeatedly. The Arab population had an unbroken relationship with the land for thousands of years, until they were forcibly ejected by the Zionists.

[AlyBlack]

You are referring to the one tenth of one percent of the middle east that has always been home to Jews.

99/9% of the middle east is muslim. How many Jews who also have an unbroken relationship with the land remain in muslim countries? How are they treated.

Your double standard is obvious.

[renegade20062609]

really, since when has it always been an exclusive home for the jews? Fortunately, your logic does not stand up to realty, The Muslim/Arab World consists of people who converted to Islam, including arabs, Jews and other' ancient' people some of whom could probably there before arabs or Jews . Building a Zionist entity in the middle of the muslim world makes as much sense as that other silly idea built in Africa. they thought that they would last, just like the Zionist state.

[crazeehat]

it was alright for the jews to live TOGETHER with the Muslims, the Muslims open it with open hands! The Jews made the majority, the Muslims were kicked out!

[lastnymleft]

crazeehat - Not quite fully correct. Some Jews throughout the 1800s were buying land, and living happily amongst their Muslim neighbors for a long time. The zionists tried this for a few decades, and were getting along well, but they decided that they didn't want to pay, and decided to steal the land instead. The 'Stern' and 'Ilgun' zionist terrorist groups were basically shake-down merchants. "Give us your land for free, or we'll kill you, or drive you empty-handed into the desert".

[hashimmunawar]

Again its not a Partition.Partition is dividing.but Isreal was declared over the dead bodies of Muslims and their buried homes in Palestine and extending its border since then

ISREAL=ARROGANCE,MURDER,LIES,C­HEATING.Isreal is real?

[hashimmunawar]

Arnon Soffer asks to see India-Pakistan,Bangladesh that no refugees returned.that he is talking?India-Pakistan&other European countries.they are PARTITIONS.But the case with Isreal is not a Partition.there is no country with name Isreal before 1948.they wiped out Muslims forcefully and created the ILLEGAL state called Isreal

[odokokan]

@hashimmunawar realy???

jews have been living in israel for more then 3000 years.can you point out a single year in history(lets say the last 2000 years) without any jews ,or without any significant jewish residency in israel?i dont think so.

you have 24 houres to find such a year!

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan Yes, but 1) a Jewish state did not exist; 2) they were in a tiny minority until the immigration in the 20th century 3) the vast majority of Jews who now live there had NOT lived there for thousands of years.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 you are late. i sais 24 hours,an dby the way,jews have living in israel constantly for more then 3000 yeras,and they are the only one that ever had an independent self governing in this area,israel of today is actialy the third time that jews have an independent jewish state i israel,thoughsome historian say itys the fifth time,if you includ the 130-135 rebelion,and the 614-629 rebelion.

jewish magority in the land was up until the muslim occupation in 638.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan I was not the person you originally addressed the 24 hour deadline to, although I don't see how that invalidates what I've said. Your response doesn't actually counter any of the points I made. If the basis of Jewish return is based on 1400 years of exile (as you claim), then surely you understand the Palestinian's 60 years of exile? Besides, the initial state of Israel (according to scripture) is one of the most celebrated cases of genocide. Just look at the book of Joshua.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 not at all.the jewish people claim of exclusive sovergnity over the land of israel is based on the more then 3000 years of constant and well documneted jewish presence in the land of israel,the fact that obly the jews ever had an independent self govering in that land,and more then then twice,no one else did,during the 1300 years of muslim occupation over israel the land was nothing more then a neglected province of varius empiers that controled much bigger areas.continue..

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan Firstly, most of what you've said is pretty much irrelevant. If you want to give facts that are relevant, why not state the population of the Jewish and non-Jewish inhabitants of the area. You use the UN as a legitimizing source for the creation of Israel; do you support their conclusions in the Goldstone report or their decision that the occupied territory is illegal.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 the goldstone report,just like the hag decision about the security fence are the mosrt ridiclus and hypocrit decision ever since the comparison of zionsam with racisam.both of those had a clear conclusion:israel dosent seem to have a right to defend its civilains from terror attacks.

exepecting israel to take it seriously are ridiculus,we have a duty to prevent from our people from being massacred by brutal murederes.if you dont like it thats your problem.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan It is clear to me that you have not read the Goldstone report nor have you any idea of what it is about. You are 100% incorrect in your claim that it states that 'israel doesnt seem to have a right to defend its civilains from terror attacks'. The report is based upon the assumption that they DO have a right. It details the manner in which the war was carried out, whether the forces were negligent, whether they focused on civilian targets etc.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 continue..and also on the continiue unbroken relation bewteen the jews that were exiled from israel 1800 yeras with their homeland,by annual donations to the occupied jews in israel,by observing their language from israel,their traditions and costumes from israel,many times under the treat of death,and by returing to israel when the oppurtunity is open like in 638,720,969,1100.1141,1165,120­0,1260,1280,1300,1350,1391,148­0,1493,1540,1600,1660,1700,174­0,and every year from then

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contineu,now about the arabs,if they want to stay and live in israel,a country that migrated to it from varius of places duirng the 1300 yeras of muslim occupation over israel,they are welcom to do so,butthery should try to live side by side to us and not instead of us.there are arabs in israel that live peacefully with the jews just like im my city ,hadera,and this is despite the horoblie massacres and many suicid attack carrieed out by arabs against the innovcent israelis.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contuine:more then a milion jews were expeled from arab countries to israel after 1948 and they also were in refugees capms for almost 10 years together with half a milion hollocust survivors until israel rehabilited all of them,with no help from the un or anyone else,so how come the *palestinians* that have 22 rich arab countries and UNRA that spoon feed them for then 60 years cant rehabilited themself?becouse they dont want to.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan To say that Palestinians do not want to 'rehabilitate themself' is ridiculous. Unlike the Jewish example you cited, the Palestinians are still in camps, suffer severe political and economic restrictions, restrictions on movement, the destruction of key buildings of infrastructure, are not allowed to have a police force, suffer from a military occupation and thousands of deaths and destruction of housing.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 the un help the *palestinians* refugees for more then 60 years,it evcen colect their garbage.do you think that any one help the milion of jewish refugees that escaped to israel?no,but stil israel made each one oof them into a normal civilain,and no one of them become aa terrorsist that murder women and children like the *palestinains* are.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 continue..most of the *palestinains* refugges come from the araa between haifa to gaza,expecilay around jaffa.that area was almost comliotely abondedned ever since the mamluks drived off the christian invaders in 1260 and dystroyed the entier area.only in 1770 the area started to recover with the help of the jew-loving sheik daar el omar,the tax colector of the galil and lebanon,that encourage both jews and both mulsim from varius countries to settle there.however the swamps....

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contuie..the swamps were a big problem.this is why from 1832 to 18450 the egyptians that occupied israel from theotomans setteld many soldiers,slaves,farmers from egypt,libiya,suda,and north africa over there.all of then arab town s around jafa and ramla-lod were egyptian new towns.the same thing for haifa and some tones near jerusalem.however,a much greater migration fromvarius countries,including the balkans would start from 1879,when the jews started to purchas land in israel

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contine..the jews recive very limited rights to buy land in israel after it was ban from them by the muslim for more then 1300 yares,but for now only low level lands and swamps land were possible to be bought for jews,so the jews bought lands that were malaria infested swamps and many died in the effort to dry them off,but whe n the jews finished that they owned the most fartiles land sin the land and their fields attracted many arabs that compited with the jewish workers.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contiune...the elimination of the swamps also improve the life in the land and both arabs and jews started to enjoy lower infants death and longer life,together with growing imigration of noth jews and both arabs to israel.when the british conqured the land in 1917,despite them promising the land to the jews for their help in the war,they brough many arabs to israel,in yehudiya foe example,the population growth from 1920 to 1945 was more a 1000 %.

[odokokan]

@hashimmunawar israel exist for more then 3000 years.just becouse it was occupied and opresed by forginers like the rmans and the arabs or the mongols and turks dosent make it anyone elses land besidethe jews,that have allways lived in it.

ilegal?the 1922 sa remo convetin acknowlgehe jews right to re-settel in their occupied homeland,this ius basic for the britihs mandat,iot was conditioned with that but they stab the jews in he back and created the *palestinains*

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan What do you mean when you say 'Israel exist for more than 3000 years'? Technically, you are incorrect. Do you think that because a tiny population of Jews are present in the region, that legitimises the right to have a Jewish state there? That does not make any sense.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 spain was under 700 yeras of mulsim occupation but its stil ramain spain during that time that it was called andolesia and after it.greec was under 400 years of muslim occupation,but its stil remain greec.israel is the same,it was an independent unit 4 times until it was occupied by forigen powers,lik ethe romans,byzants,persian,varius arab and turkish empiers,crusaders,mamluks,otom­ans,egyptians,otomans again and briitsih untiil they libareted them self from the occupation.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan You are completely missing the point. Spain was populated by Spanish people. Before the Jewish immigration in the 20th century, what was the population of Palestine?

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 no,spain was poppuleted with muslim and jews as well,but they werent spanish,or visigots.the same thing for israel.before the rise of modern zionisam in 1882 the land was populted with jews,christians,muslims,druzs,­samaretans,but beside the jews and the samaretans,no one had a national aspiration to the land as theirs.the muslims were egyptians in jaifa,jaffa and gaza,and syrians in nablus and rammala,and algirians in safed and tiberias,the rest were bedouins.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 and what is your point?can you point out on at list one arab-muslim person from history that can be called *the independent ruler of independet palestine*?there isnt such,becouse an independent arab-mulsim state called palestine never existed.it was never a state.israel is just like spain,or france,or any other country,the only difference is that israel was occupied by forigners for 1800 years while most of its people,the jews,lived in exile.contineu..

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 contiie.the jews in the exile couldnt return to israel if they wanted too,stil,there were returning of jews to israel before 1882 and the jews in the exile financilay supported the jews in israel which were oppresed and imporvinshed by the muslim occupiers.you think im making this up?do you know what dose djiziya or kharaj means?modern zionisam succeded simply becouse jews were FINALY allowed to return to israel,to purcahse land,from the end of the ottoman occupation.continue..

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 if the *palestinians* realy wanted a country they would have accepted the partition paln,or the 2000 barak offer and 2008 olmert offer of peace for teritories,all of judea and samria in ecxchange for peace without the *right to return* but the arabs refused,and they did israel a huge favor.there wouldnt never be another generouse offer like that anymore.the more the arabs insist on the *right to return* the less closes they will get to their objective to eliminate israel.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan What a vacuous argument. Using your logic, I could just as easily argue that if Israel wanted peace, they would have accepted the 'Two State Solution'.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 thats what im saying.the *palestinians* refused the israeli offer to the two state solution becouse they insisit on the 1:*right to return*2:realise of all prisoners including murderes.3:full muslim control on the jewish holly sites,which there is no govermnet in israel that could agree to it;and there would never be.this is why the *palestinains* infamouse *stage plan* to destroy israel with bogus peace offers is proven to be counter prodactive.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan You are wrong - because the Palestinians are ENTITLED to the land under the same laws that created the state of Israel. Israel claimed those lands through military conquest. This is not a legitimate method in the modern world.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 the great magority of the left wing in israel is advocating for the two state solution while assumiung automaticly that the *palestinains* would give up those three demands including the *right to return*.in the 90s the lefty wing won the election becouse it totaly ignore the *right to return* and only the right wing kept on remainding people that even if israel would give up the center of israel,meaning judea and samaria,to the terrorist,there wont be any peace.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 there is no way i would apologise for wining the war of libaretaion in 1948,for surving the barbarian attack of 7 arab armies armed ,finances,and traines by the westren powers while all i had was didili squate.700,000 arabs escaped from israel in 1948,many of them before israel was declared and before the jews went on the offencive.many of them went to the area which was assinged to be an arab state in the partition plan,why didnt they established a state there?

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 in 1950 jordan annxed judea and samaria.no country acknoledg it beside the patron of jordan,.england,pakistan,and of course,the *palestinains*.the nobles gathered in jericho and acknowldeg abbdala king of jordan as their king instead of trying to build a nation in the area that ws asinged to them by the un and most of it was still in arab hands,why didnt they try to build a nation?becouse the idea of a*plelstinian* nation wasnt invented yet then.back then they were just arabs.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan I hate this argument that 'Palestine' didn't exist. It is irrelevant. They lived there. It was there land. It was conquered by the Israeli army which refused to give it up. There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that have been displaced and Israel refuses to let them return. I agree that Israel had a right to defend itself, but NOT to take what was not theirs.

[LearnedHand2008]

The Arabs attacked Israel intending to kill its people and steal its land. Israel expelled enemy civilians to create defensible borders. Its the Arabs' fault. No war on Israel = No Nakba.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 an independent arab muslim satte called *palestine* never exited.only jews never during the 1300 years of muslim occupation over israel did that area was an independent arab or muslim nation.they lived there?since when?since they immigarted to it from egypyt and north africa during the 19 century whe we talk about most of the arabs and non arabs muslim from jaffa,haifa,acre,beisan,and many towns near jerusalem and gaza.when was it theirs???????

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan Whether it existed previous is irrelevant. They lived there. Their land was dispossessed by the Israeli army. Note, that I am only disputing the occupied territory, not the whole of Israel. Secondly, look at the Jewish population in the 18th century. Pretty much all Israelis are immigrants to the region. The Palestinian Arabs have been there hundreds of years. Even by YOUR skewed estimation, it was Arabs before it was Jewish.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 did they live there alone?no1300 years of muslim occupation over israel!

when was it theier land?name a year!israel in 1948 didnt had any plan to dipopuled the arabs from israel.arabs that fled israel becom refugees whule arabs that stayed becom isralei citiznet that enjoy beter rights then their brothers in arab countries.many of refugees returned,kfar qara,an egyptian vilige near hadera,retuned in 1949 becouse it prefered to live undr israeli control then jordanian.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 i can tell you alot about the 18 century.most of the fathers of the *palestinians* werent yet living in israel at that time,they stil lived in egypt,albania,north aftrica and sudan at atht time.how ever,durinng the 17 and 18 century there was a large imigration of syrian to the nablus area,like the tokan,nimris,jarar and of cousrse,the kudwa family,that from it yasser arraft came.they went to gaza.

in the 18 century the jews in israel started to recover from the 17 century .

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 3:the 18 cnetuey started with a wave of jews returning tio israel from east europe but the were oppresed by the aarb sin jerusalem until in 1722 the arabs band europian jews from living in jerusalem,thoug mmany continue to do so discusing them self as spanish jews.

jerusalem jews suffered alot from then muslim governers in the 18 century.their synagoge was destrioyed,heavey taxes were imposed on them,and peole were kidnaped for ransom both in jeruslaem and in hebron.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 4:how ever dispte the jews beiong aquze to live onnly 4 holly cities,jerusalem,hebron,safed and tiberias,though tiberias was destroyed since 1670,and jews also lived in gaza and nablus and some othje rviliges in the galil,it was a time that gretah sages north afrrican and east europe returned to israel,many of them hasidut scholars and kabala students.

in 1740,the jew lobing bedoi tax colector for the otomans,daar al omar,allowed the jews to rebuild tiberias,acrfemand haifa.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 5:from the middel of the 18 cnetury,jews returned to israel annulay,the otom,as tried to profit from that by arrenging the ships and they heavly taxed the jews in israel.up until 1775,dar el omar ,the freind of the jews,got into trubles with the otomans for his supprt of the egyptian rebelion and found his death.after him,alabanian rulers control the land from acre,though only nablus,the city of the syrians,wasnt in thier hands.

ackmad al jazar,the tax colector of sidon...

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 6:al jazars main ministe was jaim parchi ,leader of the jews in israel and syria,and he helped the many jews that returned from rusian and poland to settle in safed and tiberia,since in jerusalem they couldnt dwell yet becouse of the arab ban.

in 1799 napoleon invaded israel from the south,the jews of gaza fled the city and never return.the jerusalem jews were almost massaceed by themulsim beocuse of napoleon declaration of his support of a revive of the jewish state in israel

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 7:its intertsting that napoleon didnt address the *palestinians* to rebel against the otomans,but ratyher the jews,the *legal owners of palestine*a she said.any how,after what happended in gzaa and jaffa,the jews didnt realy belived napoleon,though they toatly impresed,since they are praying for that for more then 1700 years.the muslims though take that seiusly and punish the jews and beat them in jerusalem.after napoleon retreted a massacre of jews in the galil occured...

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 7:but before napoleon retreted fom israel, he battle acre,which was defende by al ajzar and and its defence was mastered by haim parchi,that oredered the buiding of a second wall,bahaind the first wall.when the french troops finaly break in the first wall they were shoked to find another one and gave up the battle.its amasing that a smal city in nowhere stoped the great napoleon.thats why he wanted the jews on his side..

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 why would israel allow them to retrun?and to where?to safuria which was the famouse old jewish city of tsipori until the arabs dystroyed it in the 9 century or to yibna,another very famouse jewish city,or to yehudiya?if israel would have allowed the arabs to return for exampe to ijzim ,near haifa,they would have contine their arab siege over jewish trafic to haifa,and the same to many other places like kalunias arab siege on jewish trafic to jerusalem.its their fault!

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan You took it illegally. Whether you like it or don't like it is frankly irrelevant.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 prove that israel took it ilegaly!just saying *you took it ilegaly* is not enough,whether you like it or not.

can you point out on at list one single year,in the last 3000 years,without any significant and constant jewish presence in the land of israel?i dare you!cant you see thats its jews that were *oocupied* and *oppresed* and now they are finaly free,wheter you like or not,its frankly irrelevant.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan What are you talking about? They took it by conquest, and then kept it. In what circumstances is that acceptable? All the 'occupied territory' was territory that they won through war. The UN ruled on and deemed it illegally occupied. Under the same rules that created Israel, Israel should not have a massive portion of the land it now occupies. Despite that, the Palestinian authorities are not asking for it all back, only a portion. Israel still says 'no'.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 1:judea and samaria are the center of israel,there is no way it can be called an occupaied terotory by israel.it was occupeid with rest of all of israel,by forginers,for 1800 years,and now its back in the hand sof ist legal owners.the jews.

also,the san remo convention from 1922,thats its decesion is acknowld in artical 80 of the un chater,make the jews right to re-settel,and live freely and independenlty in all of the west bank of the jordan river...

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 2:after the british mandat was over in 1948,the arans attacked israel.jordan occpied judea and samaria and annexed it in 1950.no country beside englanda nd pakistan acknowldg it,though the *palestinains* did.even the arab leoug didnt acknowlged that annexation,so jordan didnt had sovergnity there,and when israel libareted it in 1967,it simply took over what was appointed for it to get from the 1922 conevtion.israel is the undeniblae sovergnity of judea and samaria.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 3:israel offered the arafat in 2000 a retret from 93% of judea and samaria,.a partial return of the refugess,and joint control over the holly sites,and full control over arab neigberhoods in jerusalem.what was the arabs response?blowing them slef in israeli busses and resturants massacreing thousans of innocent isralei civilians.israle made anothe roffer like thta in 2008,but the arsb said no.

[odokokan]

@Englishdosser86 so dont waste your time.the syrinans,egyptians,jordanians and others that claim to be *palestinains* are only agriveted israel to be more and more suspicius about a comprimise with the arabs.in 2000 israel offered the *palestinias* 99% of all of their demands,what was the *palestinains* answer?blowing them self in israeli busses,resturnats and synagogse killing thousand of innocent israeli civilains including many women and children,so forget it.

[Englishdosser86]

@odokokan It did not give them 99% of their demands. You have to remember that the Two State Solution is itself a massive concession in terms of the land that the Palestinians initially were entitled to. And your claim that thousands of innocent Israeli civilians in response to it specifically, is of course false. If you were really interested in the deaths of civilians, you might be more horrified by the Palestinian deaths which are about 6x the Israeli number.

[LearnedHand2008]

@hashimmunawar

There was no country called Pakistan before. And 13 million lost their homes permanently.

[jammoexii]

There's a notion in this discussion that the right of return loses legitimacy because it might "demographically destroy the Jewish state". That this is even allowed is appalling. The idea that the ethnic-purity concerns of Zionists has validity under international law is shocking and ridiculous.

[BamenYaros]

As a descendant of Arab Jewish Refugees kick out of Yemen how can you not absorb arab refugees in Arab countries 3.2/ 5.5 million Israeli Jews are descendants of Arab Refugees. We lost 100,000 km2 4 times the size of Israel. Are we asking 4 return, or compensation, no!

[hashimmunawar]

Why Arnon Soffer asked Paletinians to forget their past? Why? To hide all the barbaric crimes and Massacare done by Jews to Muslims in Palestine during past 70 years?..Isreal's survival is based on only their deliberated Holocaust claims..their Past.

[xrpoo]

Palestinian refugees refers to people who fled there homes in the 1940's.  There children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc are not refugees. They are citizens of where they were born. No other group make such a claim except for the Palestians. By definition a refugee is someone who was displace by outside forces. Being born Lebanon or Egypt, etc. does not make you a refugee.

It is the muslim nations that keep the Palestinians as refugees so they can fight a proxy war for them!

[Suhaim85]

would you like it if someone took your home and instead of it being inherited by your children and grandchildren it was inherited by someone else's

[mengwise36]

By definition, refugees are not immigrants. They do not have any citizenship any where. Just because you are born in a refugee camp in Jordan, does not make you a Jordanian citizen, does it?

[mictok]

i believe that Israel is illegal, for example: the Mexican's left pyramids in Arkasas, Mississippi, Ohio, does that mean that they have a right to create a completely NEW nation? right on top of an existing population based on their ancient past? well at lest the Mexican has evidence, the Isrealis have guns and "stories", but the fact that people are being completely robbed and terrorized by criminal settler colonies, zionism is white supremacy, and its not new, it's global and deadly.

[mengwise36]

You are talking about the Inca Indians, not Mexicans. Illegal implies law, and law is made by the powerful. Israel might be illegitimate but it has powerful allies so the law will not apply to it.

[jammoexii]

Well you're both right, and of course Mexico itself is a Spanish creation, essentially.

And it should be underscored that if Mexico wanted to reconquer much of the American southwest and cleanse it of its white population, its claims would be MUCH more legitimate, and verifiable, than Israeli claims.

[mengwise36]

Why would the Mexicans have a more legitimate claim? They are not native Americans. A better example will be the indignant Australians taking over the land. The problem with all this argument is the native people did not have land ownership like the Europeans.

[jammoexii]

The Jews aren't really Semitic people though anymore, they're basically Eastern European for the most part, they have more of a historical claim to Warsaw. A substantial part of the American southwest was literally Mexican territory until a couple hundred years ago. It would be ridiculous to suggest that an arbitrary "Native American" category is infinitely self-interchangeable, but Texas was literally Mexican.

I still don't accept the claim - it's just way more legitimate.

[mengwise36]

The original comment was about Mexicans/Inca leaving pyramid in US. That is how this whole discussion started. If the Eastern European Jews did not migrate from ME, then yes you would be right. They would not have a claim to Israel under the same argument.

However, your argument about Mexico having a claim to Texas does not fit here. Mexico declared independence from Spain about 20 years before Texas declared its own independence. Mexico does not have any "historical" claim to Texas.

[mictok]

The deadly global dynamic of white-supremacy forces the non-white population to accept their version of history, because they are active in all area's of human activity : education, entertainment, economics, labor, law, polotics, religion, sex and war. The ruling minority and their guard dogs believe that they have the right to take supreme authority over anyone. The idea of private property and claims to land is devil, we belong to the earth, everyone is temporary, don't be greedy RESPECT HER:)

[lproth]

might makes right! you cry baby!

[mictok]

israel can't win after 60 years of terrorism against the original people of that land, so you are wrong you cry baby! lproth, might does not make right! that is typical devil behavior.

[JimiyDoorsHamelech1]

nd unlike the Native Americans in Mexico, the indigenous in Mexico, and the Aborigines in Australia, the Palestinians have recieved land back, and probably will recieve at least the West Bank if not even more. America and Australia and Russia and Iran are much bigger, you dont see Iran rushing to give land back to the Kurds in the northern mountain? why not? they were there first

[renegade20062609]

I guess that makes colonialism, massacres and robbery ok then. nice one! Unfortunately, you are wrong in this instance, The Zionist entity is a temporary situation just like those silly apartheid idiots who thought that they could carve out a 'White homeland in Africa. Lol The Zionist entity like the frnakish crusader entity in the middle of the arab/muslim world is probably even more stupid than apartheid s.africa

[AlyBlack]

Do you have a problem with Arabs moving to Europe and the US or is this another example of your double standard?

ROFLOL

Guess what- Israel exisits and will remain strong, democratic and PRODUCTIVE forever. Seriously, If you haters would only turn your energies into being productive you wouldn't need to covet what the Jews have created in Israel.

[renegade20062609]

Sorry, you lost me. Arabs have not setup a state in USA or Europe.

I think that the earth belongs to everyone and not just 'God's chosen people'

Unfortunately, Apartheid S.Africa or the Zionist entity believed that 'God gave them certain lands'

exclusively for themselves.

Yes The Zionist entitiy like Apartheid S.Africa at one point did exist.

Fortunately, Stupid ideas crumble and disappear. Get over it!

Can't you even see the stupidity of setting up Apartheid S.Africa

and the Zionist state?

[AlyBlack]

Really bad analogy but keep making it because it shows how ignorant you are. Israel is 1/3rd Arab. They keep Palestinians out because they want to kill them. Everyone else is welcome. Christians, Druze, Buddists, Hindu and muslims etc.

Israel has no obligation to welcome people who want them to cease to exist.

I notice you did not comment on the true apartheid state of Saudi Arabia. Not only are the women there slaves but Jews cannot enter the country and non believers cannot go to Mecca.

[renegade20062609]

again you have lost me. you are the one who is making the bad analogy

you contradict yourself by saying that israel is 1/3 arab and they are keeping out palestinians who want to kill them. are you are trying to be funny ?

those 1/3 arabs are palestinians! lol

Israel under no obligation to welcome them cos they 'want to kill'? Well at least you are honest in accepting apartheid policies which Israel does to maintain its existence just like Apartheid S.Africa adopted the same policies

[AlyBlack]

They are Israeli Arabs not Palestinians if they live in Israel. They may have ties to Palestinians, the people who live in Gaza and the West Bank and are descendents of people from Egypt and Jordan the same as Israeli Arabs.

They should have the right to return to Egypt and Jordan, along with Gaza and the West Bank. Problem solved.

[renegade20062609]

Again, you try to cover it up by even delegitimising the palestinians history. lol, thats exactly the same Apartheid S.African tactics. Fortunately, most people know that is complete rubbish and that The palestinians come from all parts of where the zionist entity is currently situated.

'Israeli Arabs' is again a symptom of the stupidity of the idea of a zionist entity in the heart of the muslim world. What will you do when they become the majority population of the zionist state?

[ToeInspector]

Actually they have forced most of the christian population out as well.

[renegade20062609]

Women are slaves in Saudi Arabia? True Apartheid State? Really? saudi government policy sells women where? where are the removed indigenous population?

Why are you changing the subject? Guess what, I have not mentioned Saudi Arabia, USA, Britain, China,Burma, Syria or Tunisia? Because the subject is about Israel and the indigenous population.

If Saudi Arabia removed the indigenous population then your point would not be as bad an analogy as it is. We can discuss that on another board

[AlyBlack]

You are the one who keeps bringing up apartheid, I'm just reminding you of what a true apartheid state is and Saudi fits the bill. Women there are the property of their husbands. They cannot drive or go out without a male relative.

Israeli Arabs are free to travel anywhere in Israel they like. Palestinians, who live in the Palestinian territories of Gaza and the West Bank are allowed into Israel when the crossings are open. Israel is not obligated to open her borders, the same as any country.

[renegade20062609]

Israel fits the bill perfectly. That is why you try to cover up the fact that although the Saudi state is terrible, that is another subject. The fact is that Saudi have not removed the idigenous population. The issues in Saudi involve internal conflicts amongst their own people. Israel and Apartheid South Africa involve removing the indigenous population phyiscally and also setting up laws that discriminate against them.

'Israeli Arabs' are the same people as people from Gaza or West Bank

[ToeInspector]

The only reason the Saudi kings are still in power is because of America this can be said for Israel as well.

[bihal]

theres no doubt the state of Israel exists, and will be there forever. and I believe all the Arab and Muslim countries have to accept that.

But the Palestinian people have the right to establish their nation state. also, the Palestinian refugees naturally have the right to return to their homeland, the 60 year old Israel, or the Palestinian territories.

[uchoob00]

"theres no doubt the state of Israel exists, and will be there forever."

-Wrong. It will not be there forever.

[cardieunion]

Israel has nuclear weapons, lots of them. Either it will be there, or Mecca, Medina, Cairo, Damascus, Riyadh, Beirut, Tehran, Baghdad......

I think you get the idea.

[uchoob00]

If Israel used their nuclear weapons, that would be great. Bring it on

[Arabstanii008]

hahahahah wait till iran kicks ur butt