UKIP Nigel Farage on compensation for Guantanamo & ex-detainees - BBC Nov 2010

[MrHussien777]

Obama is an idiot, trust me people he is like a cartoon chareacter. He promised to close the prison, but instead he remained it open and now planning for another one or 2 wars against Libya and Syriya!!!!!!

[satansbackdoor]

waterboarding may be acceptable price to pay for valuable information, what next, stalin was a hero for putting those found guilty on trial

[eyeswideopennimrod]

What are we protecting if we lower ourselves to torturing our enemies, we are fighting for peace and democracy by using oppression and fear. WAKE UP PEOPLE we in the west are the terrorists stealing and oppressing nations that don't agree with us. The world is colourfull because we are different

[MsEiceEK]

UKIP & Nigel Farage are true libetarians. SUPPORT UKIP!

[kcirdrab]

This "torture is cool" garbage started under Rumsfeld & Cheney & should be confined to the political graveyard with them.

If torture wins wars the Nazis would have won 1939-1945.

All it does is give you a bit of information that you could have got otherwise by other means & turns you into as much of a monster as that which yr fighting, with the consequence that any victory is hollow.

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab Do you have any clue what an enemy combatant is? If they knew of a potential terrorist attack that would lead to thousands killed, do you think they'll just tell you if you ask nicely? Haven't you ever dealt with a bully in your life?

In WW2 the Nazis and the Allies were torturing each other's spies/PoWs-because in war that's what people do to get info to defeat their enemies. The Nazis lost because they turned the world's great powers against themselves.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011l - Yup I do have an idea what an enemy combatant is, but if you don`t have a problem with torture you`ve got issues

WW2 - 'The Allies used torture', when did Anglosphere nations engage in torture of Axis agents, I`ve studied that conflict for years & haven`t heard anything other than that they rejected it as unsound?

I didn`t say 'the Nazis lost because they used torture', I said those who say you only win by taking the gloves off need to look at where that attitude got Hitler.

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab sure "if you don't agree with me, then you are crazy." what a pathetic and weak line of argumentation. Here's a simple question, say some psychopath kidnapped your daughter and only he knew where she was.

He promised to take that secret to his grave, would you give up on her, or would you use any means in your power to extract that information from him? What if torture was the only way he'd disclose it?

You're either lying or you suck at studying, we did torture nazis, google it.

[MrGilles1990]

@l1011l Torture is not needed, we have better and more effective techniques.

Torture does not work, simply because the information excreted from the victim is just a pain killer, so he is giving you what you want to hear.

"We're nothing like Iran and you need to realize that our culture is infinitely superior to theirs" that is just an opinion not fact i bet you no nothing about Persian culture do you?

Socialism is the biggest threat to my culture not some mad-men across the world.

[l1011l]

@MrGilles1990 if torture did not work, we'd never use it-in fact it's extremely effective and a last resort when everything else has failed. Read my other posts to see the proof that EIT has been used with great success against terrorists.

The 'Persia' of today stones women/gays/apostates. It is under the brutal rule of an apocalyptic death cult and they're a threat to the entire world.

Socialism, unlike Islam, does not have a billion followers who want us to all to live in the 7th century.

[MrGilles1990]

@l1011l Your wrong Socialism in the UK has demolished British culture let-alone English culture.

Socialism has caused more damage to date than a few hate filled Muslims.

Socialism has caused over 100 million deaths.

[l1011l]

@MrGilles1990 Actually muslims have killed 270 million people over 1400 years...and I think you're referring to Communism, but don't get me wrong, I also think socialism is a serious problem.

They have basically formed an alliance with Islam-this is why the UK is being rapidly taken over by muslims and if the people don't wake up soon enough, you'll find yourself living in an Islamic state.

[MrGilles1990]

@l1011l Yes a deadly alliance.

[l1011l]

@MrGilles1990 Indeed, what's worse is that the left/liberals are doing the muslims' bidding, bargaining away our hard-won rights and freedoms for the sake of "community harmony"...when at bottom it's really just cowardice, appeasement or utter ignorance and a failure to recognize that there is an enemy equivalent to nazis in our midst.

I think things are just going to get worse and and worse until there is a major backlash and perhaps even civil war.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011l - I`m not interested in yr outlandish B-movie fantasies of "let`s try to find a reason to torture people". I might kill the crazy but torture would be out.

You haven`t answered my ?, where`s yr evidence that the Anglosphere tortured Axis Forces in 1939-1945?

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab one example of many, drop this quote into google to read the full article:

"The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948."

[l1011l]

@l1011l So much for your "intensive studying", clearly you don't know much about WW2...only took me a few seconds to pull that up. And there are other examples of the Allies using torture against our fascist enemies at the time-but I've amply proven my point.

Now answer my question, if a psycho kidnapped your daughter and she will die in one day if not rescued, and he swears never to tell no matter what, would you torture him or let her die, because you don't want to "sink to his level"?

[l1011l]

*torture him to find her location...assuming every other technique had been tried and failed.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011- I`ve already answered yr weird ? about girls being kidnapped

As for yr Google trawling anxiously seeking anything to prove the Anglosphere used torture as an act of HMG policy in 1939-1945 - lol

London Cage was an hardcore Nazi interrogation unit run by SIS, none of the allegations point to anything more than rough-housing of POWs

There`s a big difference between being shouted at & shoved & being tied to a bench & attacked with a blow torch or drowned

Any more "evidence"?

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab you're an ignorant dickhead-as I said it took a few seconds to pull up evidence of torture by the Allies and even if it took hours, it's irrelevant, since I proved my point.

But of course an idiot like you is going to worm your way out of admitting you were wrong and I have no patience for people who don't deal honestly with the truth.

You'd kill the psycho, but you wouldn't torture him to save your daughter's life? Killing is the ultimate torture, you took away his right to exist.

[l1011l]

but anyways, that's my last post to you...as I said, I have no tolerance for individuals like yourself who pervert the truth...it's a bit like seeing your car leak oil, you just know there is probably a much deeper problem under the surface and you couldn't pay me enough to be your therapist.

[kcirdrab]

@1011-Thought so, y`ve no evidence at all that the Anglosphere used torture in 1939-45, only a desperate scabbling around in the Google`s gutter trying to shore up yr collapsed argument

To inflict death in rage is undesirable but can be understood as an irrational act in the heat of the moment; to coldly set up a systemic means of creating physical agony in a calculated process is depraved, as recognized in Law as murder in hot blood v premeditation

Sit down & re-think yr life.

[MrBasilGanglia]

@kcirdrab Torture is not "Cool", but the question remains, what constitutes torture?

[kcirdrab]

@MrBasilGanglia - Torture = the deliberate infliction of physical pain when the inflicting agent is under no direct threat from the recipient.

[MrBasilGanglia]

@kcirdrab the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure. Explain how waterboarding is torture?

[kcirdrab]

@MrBasilGanglia - "Waterboarding" is a CIA term for drowning some1, ie depriving their lungs of oxygen until they almost pass out; it causes intense distress & pain in to the respiratory system

I didn`t limit the definition of physical pain in the way you prefaced this ? with.

[MrBasilGanglia]

@kcirdrab Drowning = death. Almost passing out is not torture, neither is distress. US Rangers undergo waterboarding during seres training. Would we spend ALL that money, just to damage the lungs of our soldiers who then become useless?

[jurassicturd3]

@MrBasilGanglia first they volunteer, second it's not even the same as used to terror suspects.

It works the same way "give use what we want and it stops" which is used for torture, give us what we want and we stop elctrocuting your nackers, give us what we want and we stop pouring water down your nose and throat forcibly.

[Tomta20012]

bing fucking go 10* nigel

[stuanemma]

Listen to what is said. Information gotten from torture is much less reliable than the infomation you get from other methods of interogation. Torture is wrong and those guys deserve compensation for being lifted from their home country and imprisoned. Some of those guys were shepherds who had done nothing wrong whatsoever and who were detained for years. They deserve compensation for loss of liberty. As leader of a Libertarian Party Nigel should see that too.

[GoldenbanjoDJ]

Don't agree with you here, I'm afraid, Nigel.

[sh4p3shifter]

@GoldenbanjoDJ because you are spasticated.

[GoldenbanjoDJ]

@sh4p3shifter

Yeah good one. Grow up will you?

[l1011l]

@GoldenbanjoDJ  haha such a proper British phrase...made me smile. :)

[GoldenbanjoDJ]

@l1011l

lol glad i could help. also, good stance on torture there, sir. in britain we are full of airheads when it comes to torture

[l1011l]

@GoldenbanjoDJ thanks, nice to see we agree...we have plenty of airheads on torture here as well-as this board shows. :)

Liberals prefer that we always fight our enemies with our hands tied behind our backs...would they ever dare to go to the nazis (when they were around) or muslims/taliban/al qaeda and demand that they not to use torture against us?

Of course not since first they'd get laughed at, then probably tortured to death and laughed at some more. :)

[l1011l]

how do you know torture works? if the information the terrorist gives you is reliable...if he's lying you torture him some more.

pain/torture is extremely effective-this is why humanity has used it for thousands of years to information or change behavior.

it's too bad Nigel took this PC stance...but then the UK is going to be Islamic anyway thanks to liberalism...since the british have lost the will to fight and destroy their muslim enemies.

[l1011l]

*to get

[danielzopola]

@l1011l Torture is extremely ineffective. In the case in the video CIA tortured innocent British citizen. Such person can tell you anything, e.g make up surnames and places, can pledge guilty to the crimes they didn't commit only to stop the torture. History shows that torture has always been extremely ineffective (woman admitting to black magic etc) It has been around for such a long time because nobody knew anything better.

[l1011l]

@danielzopola obviously people will do anything to avoid being tortured-even confessing to crimes they did not commit.

But what I'm referring to is the application of torture to extract verifiable information. Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (EIT) like water-boarding helped thwart more terrorists attacks right after 9/11 and led to the capture of kingpins like KSM, mastermind of the WTC attack.

The facts completely prove you wrong. Terrorists speak the truth to avoid further torture.

[l1011l]

Also I don't believe any tool that can help protect our citizens and defeat our enemies should never be taken off the table for idiotic, sentimental 'morals'. We don't need to have any regard for monsters like KSM who've slaughtered thousands of innocent people.

The claim that we shouldn't torture our enemies like AQ so they don't torture our soldiers is ludicrous-the enemy does not share our values and their torture is extremely brutal. This is precisely why our enemies must be obliterated.

[MrGilles1990]

@l1011l Information from torture is unreliable.

[l1011l]

@MrGilles1990 that's completely false, the facts prove you wrong...as I said in my post below, vital intel was extracted from low-level terrorists to capture high value targets like KSM and thwart more attacks.

I prefer the term EIT (enhanced interrogation techniques)...because torture as defined can inflict pain/harm but not necessarily have a purpose-except for itself. While EIT is meant to ascertain intelligence from an enemy combatant to protect one's nation.

[MrGilles1990]

@l1011l Look if i were tortured i would just tell them what they wanted to hear.

Torture is unreliable and degenerative.

We should at least have higher standards than the Fascist regime in Iran.

[l1011l]

@MrGilles1990 Did you read what I said? You just repeated yourself when I already refuted your point and showed the EIT was key to thwarting more terrorist attacks after 9/11.

We're nothing like Iran and you need to realize that our culture is infinitely superior to theirs and thus it must be defended at any cost, including torturing terrorists to stop more plots.

If torture did not work, we would never have used it. Live in reality, not in your liberal lollipops and unicorns fantasy world.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011l - I see you`ve got a bee in yr bonnet about torturing people

You`ve got a fucking cheek to be posting that the Anglosphere has 'an infinitely superior culture' to the Muzzies ... & then say we should behave just like the very worst elements of them by resorting to barbarism just coz we`re in a fight

The Anglosphere abandonded torture as a means of war or punishment because it`s evil & ineffective, that`s part of what makes us better than merely being a new Rome.

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab don't get your panties in a bunch there lefty. Once again your dimwits corrupt the debate by using the most coarsest definition of torture. I reassert it is EIT because it is not done for shits and giggles but to extract vital information.

I see no contradiction in being a superior culture to the barbarism of Islam on the one hand yet using extreme measures against our enemies to safeguard our culture.

Explain why it's ok for a superior culture to engage in war-which is barbaric.

[l1011l]

to elaborate a bit...war is as brutal if not worse than torture...tell me why it is acceptable to spray our enemies with bombs, bullets, poison gas, nukes...but don't dare touch a hair on their head if you capture one.

to say you're against war is not acceptable-because 99.9% of humanity opposes it...wars are thrust on us, we have to fight and kill in order to survive and protect our freedom/civilization.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011l - War is more acceptable than torture of captives because of the Hors de Combat, which you clearly haven`t even heard of.

A man in action is able to defend himself & poses a threat, whereas a prisoner can`t & doesn`t.

[l1011l]

@kcirdrab How would you know what I have or have not heard of? Are you a mind-reader? It's a joke that you'd refer to Hors de Combat-why am I not surprised that the French surrender-monkeys would create it?

A war doesn't end simply because one man decides to surrender. As Churchill once said, "A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him."

Our enemies do not abide by our rules of war-the Indians learned that the hard way when fighting muslims.

[kcirdrab]

@l1011l - If the Boers had followed that view Churchill wouldn`t have survived being a POW in 1899, so if he did say this it`s a bit odd

As to yr view on the Hors de Combat, Teutonic civilisation has observed these rules of the field since the Middle Ages (& the Enlightenment extended it into civilian judicial areas) because it learned the hard way that the kind a savagery yr advocating doesn`t increase utility, it just increases the damage, as the Nazis found out to Deutschland`s cost.

[allahmohammad1]

@danielzopola what innocent british citizen ??

[Counterjihaduk]

As far as im concerned if these people are planning on Killing x amount of innocent people then water boarding should be used! If Human rights laws are being broke etc then maybe these Terrorists should think about the rights of all those that they are planning on killing!

[ToM2CoOL]

@Counterjihaduk I agree, but what if they are completely innocent? Don't just get the idea from 24 the tv show

[smoketweed09]

terrorists?? when he mentions subjects like terrorism and the way he talks about the subject it makes me question just how honest MR Farage really is

[Darcieish]

She's a bitch!

God help the poor bast*ard that's weaned off that breast.

[PolticiansLie]

Will Britian elect somebody like Nigel Farage or will they stick with the usual idiots?

[waynej1407]

Ya And more than hush MONEY Nigel....! HOW ABOUT FRAUD...! AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANATY...!Ive been watching things UNFOLD here in Britian for at least 15 years....! And i will be happy to see 1 Day..! When we the people..! switch on the 6 O clock news And see at least half dozen or more polititians in hand cuffs being carted of to prison....! ALONG WITH CERTAIN BANKSTERS...!

[volumedealer1]

Booya!

[abstractduk]

just be happy nigels getting more and more exposure on mainstream tv.

[JohnSmithTheSecond]

It's up to us to create more awareness and spread the word! Word of mouth is the best form!

[skunkwerksrc]

I like Farage ... though that was a pretty weak argument against the use of torture. He'd have been better to say, " If all that is necessary for torture is that a man is declared "an enemy", then every citizen is at risk of torture from his own government."

And, of course, if I fail to tell you something useful, it's not evidence that I'm innocent. It's merely evidence that you haven't tortured me "hard enough". That's why those guys were tortured on hundreds of occasions.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

@skunkwerksrc I think he said more, dunno why the video cut off.

[sh4p3shifter]

Nigel is our only hope in the UK! I voted UKIP but too many idiots fell for the lies of liblabcon!

[cornwallgeezer]

When are the dumbed down people going to wake up and support UKIP!!

[SirTrouserRuffles]

@cornwallgeezer that's the million dollar question my friend,