Countries with same-sex marriage: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Iceland, Israel, Mexico, The Netherlands, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, United States
Countries that allow some form of polygamy: Iraq, Malawi, Libya, Namibia, and Uganda
"Animal Rights", yes, the biggest issue with having sex with animals, is where it's moral. As animals cannot consent the way we do. Now, it's a controversial issue as to whether it's moral or not. Most people think not(it doesn't seem to harm animals like it does humans when children do not consent, but is nontheless nonconsensual and the logic makes sense to call it immoral on those grounds). Homosexuality can and frequently does contain two consenting adult human beings in love. Much different
@BloodHalation I look back on this argument that I made three years ago. Apart from some grammatical errors for which I wish I could go back and slap myself, I still agree with ... well, me. And at the time, I said that animal rights, in the instance of animal sex, was was something that I question. I still do question it.
@BloodHalation The *only* time I would agree that animal sex is "lawful" is if the animal consented. Seeing as I don't know how to prove this, I would assume that pretty much every instance of animal sex is wrong. Any zoologists out there
Homosexuality, is a sexual orientation..(like heterosexual, bisexual, asexual) The varying factor of what a sexual orientation is: the attraction to a GENDER of ur human lover.
Homosexuality is not compariable to Beastiality/pedophilia/etc. Because there's too many varying factors.
THe only way to compare is if u say A gay person commit a beastiality/pedophile act = a heterosexual person commmit a beastiality/pedophile act.
(duh,the sexual orientation of the criminal is a nonfactor)
People will say "gay marriage won't lead to polygamy because we can define marriage as between TWO people", isn't defining marriage as one thing doing the exactly what they have been fighting against?
I personally wouldn't be against plural marriages. I wouldn't see myself with multiple spouses but I wouldn't bar people from making that choice. It should be noted, however, that we're talking about a minority who wishes to marry based on orientation and not merely the whim of having multiple partners. Antagonists to homosexuality of course will call it a choice nonetheless but it seems more a line of reasoning to be able to point the finger and criticize rather than basing it on sound science.
First I commend you for being consistent by favoring legal polygamous marriages also.
But how come you're against pedofiles because children aren't intelligent enough to be able to give consent but beastiality is "someone's private business?" surely if an 11 year old isn't intelligent enough to be able to consent then animals aren't either.
Also, why shouldn't beastiality "be celebrated or glorified?" Who are you to tell people what sexual acts should/shouldn't be celebrated.
Yeah. I had a great mom and dad, great grandparents. My dad hunted, as did my brother. They made me go with them and I didn't want to. I HATED it. My mom said she knew for the longest time I was gay as did my dad when I later told them. I remember in kindergarten during recess, this guy Billy Jack was chasing me and my friend Anissa, and I WANTED him to catch me. It's NOT a choice!!!
Animal sex? Paedophilia? Incest? Is this a list of the worst atrocities humans have seen?
Why is conservative society obsessed with ruling an agreement between two consenting adults who are willing to bind themselves to obligations and enjoy rights? Being born in a conservative family, I can understand the need to conservative people to gay people to sweep themselves under the rug.
Talking about 'slippery slopes' works both ways. If we disallow two consenting adults from getting married based on their similar gender, what other restrictions might be passed? Will we regress to not allowing inter-racial couples from getting married or baring people with mild physical disabilities from adopting?
devious - It doesn't work both ways. The very definition of marriage IS one unrelated man & unrelated woman. Interracial marriage doesn't compare to gay marraige because at the end of the day it is still a man and woman whatever race they are.
there was a recent study and Homosexuals brains have very similar part of the brain to F. so it s a fact. they can t change. there are a lot of teens kill themselves because of peoples narrow minds. YOu are right. If somebody says no. whether child or not it means no.
If homosexual sex was "natural" you wouldn't need lubrication for your ass, it would lubricate naturally - it doesn't. BTW, you certainly look very gay. Couldn't find a woman that would do the kinky stuff you like eh??
Oh and as far as child abuse if incests had kids, what kind of mental abuse would it for a kid to grow up in a house where 2 dads or 2 moms is the norm? Too ignore the fact that a kid needs a role model from each gender is naive. And gay marriage would ENSURE this by design.
4. I specifically said that incestral relationships should be forbidden from having kids.
5. same-sex marriage children re: I do not think that you have done your research on this one. Gay couples having children is supported by the American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children,
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians. In July 2004, the American Psychological Association stated in a resolution: "there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children...
"... research has shown that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish."
And I can even lend an anecdote to this, as well. A few summers ago, I worked in a day care for a summer with children from 7-12 years old. The most well-behaved, well-adjusted, and kind children were two twins who were about 11 years old. Since birth, they had been raised by two loving lesbian mothers.
The research should be more valid in forming an opinion about gay marriage; however, I will never forget these two children.
fflybz - No, single parents can't marry themselves. Being a single parent is a lot different than the deliberate union of 2 ppl that would PURPOSELY deprive a child of a mom or dad.
ffflybz - Yeah, and they are usually always in the pursuit of a new husband or wife/parent figure for the kid. Would you say single parents or gay marriage are the ideal family structure? Of course you don't believe there is an ideal family structure am I right?
Based on ur arguments, u think consentual polygamy + incest w/o kids should be legal. I duno why u think being gay is normal/natural but if some1 feels they're born attracted to family members, how do u determine thats not natural? But based on your arguments, you support my right to marry my grandma cuz she can't have kids? What gay marriage & polygamy (which would inevitable follow based on the exact principles) is DESIGN and PROMOTE by LAW, a lifestyle that DEPRIVES the kid of 1 mom and 1 dad
Thanks for the response. I'll take your contentions one-by-one:
1. homosexuality being natural re: There are various studies that have looked at child development and discovered that homosexual children are usually raised in the same ways as most other children. The only conclusion, then, is that it is something more inherent in the children. I would suggest looking at work done by Alred Kinsey as a starting place into research on human sexuality (though it has advanced greatly today):
Okay, for whatever reason, I have not been able to give you the Wiki link. Sorry! Just Google 'Alfred Kinsey' and you'll find a wealth of info in the top results.
"There are various studies that have looked at child development and discovered that homosexual children are usually raised in the same ways as most other children."
2. attraction to family memebers re: I do not know with certainty how strong the inborn influencers (genetic predispositions) are for sexual attraction to ones own family. However, that still does not defeat the point; whether social or inherent, as long as no children are birthed (which would affect the greater society adversely due to damage to the child), it is not my place to prohibit the sexual affairs of another.
Therefore, you can marry your grandma if you so wish. The key: 99% of people would have no desire to do so -- it is far more *natural* to be sexually attracted to non-family.
3. promotion of gay marriage/polygamy re: First, I do not understand what you mean by "exact principles". Could you please expound? Second, we ought to be promoting that people apend there life with who they love, so it is not about promoting gay marriage.
Anyone interested in being moral would HAVE to support the legalization of polygamy and incest. Adults can have sex with any other adult. If you don't want some of these people procreating, then use persuasion and education, not force. And since we know that these rare arrangements (polygamy, etc) exist, it makes no sense to handicap their ability to rear children by barring them from the 1500+ rights and privileges granted by the state and federal governments to "married" people.
Anyways, thanks for pointing out the irrelevance of slippery slope
"If we let people drink coffee, the people will start drinking 100% alcohol, then people will start drinking PCP, then people will start drinking nuclear waste"
"If we let people have eyes, soon people will start getting cyborgnetic implants, and then people will start getting psychic vision"
However, I am most worried about letting people breathe. Once people are allowed to breathe, they'll realize the health benefits of proper breathing. In fact, they'll become obsessed with the benefits. That, of course, will lead to a movement to create a totalitarian society in which we are all forced to sit in neat lines and do breathing exercises for every waking moment.
I totally understand; I was just picking apart the construction of the statement. "Why?", you ask. Not really sure; just had the urge to clarify this (very) minor point!
Are there actually good reasons for consenting polygamous marriage? I think it might have to do with taxes or something. I think it should be legalized. They are consenting adults...
It may be a good idea (I'm neutral on the issue), but our legal system is not at all equipped to deal with them, particularly their dissolution. A lot of laws and policies would have to be rewritten to protect all of the parties involved (and that's completely disregarding the traditional risk of pedophilia, which is the bit of polygamy that seems to worry people the most).
The studies on gay men molesting children tend to be seriously misreprested, and many well respected sex researchers have proven in a lot of their research and have said that gay men are no more likely to molest a child than straight men. There's a reason that the psychology field at large agrees with this research and not the claims against gay men being child molesters...
In parts of southern Africa (and elsewhere on that continent) polygamy is a very healthy, normal, and civilized way to ensure the future of the family group both financially and socially. For the West to judge such things from a moral perspective is very odd to me.
I think you misheard my words, though. I didn't judge all adult polygamy to be "wrong"; I said that it is wrong for a child to be forced into such relationships because they have neither the emotional nor the physical maturity to consent to such relationships with full knowledge.
I actually said that adult polygamy (as long as it is between consenting adults) is not for us to decide. In many cultures, this is, in fact, the case.
*However*, in those same society's, there are often people forced into polygamy (children and adults). If we can agree that free will is an ethical good, than we can both agree that forced polygamy is bad.
I presumed that is what you meant. Again, I must remind you that the Western idea of childhood (with its comfy sofas and video games) is very different from most of the world. It is extremely difficult for you or I to judge another culture based on our own moral and ethical ideas (which are ultimately taboos with an academic veneer). But perhaps I am just being picky. So lets leave it at that. When it comes sex between humans, most laws should be a very deep shade of grey.
Aside from that, the topic of child molestation has nothing to do w/ gay marriage. Anyway, not all (or even most) gays are child molesters, just as not all hetero ones are. Bringing up that particular point was unnecessary + off-topic, aside from your stats being questionable. Less than 2%? Please.
Here's what they are doing: True, only 2-3% identify themselves as exclusively homosexual. Take those wo reject the "gay" label, but report having sex only with members of the same sex in the last 2 years, and you add another percent or two. Now add bisexuals, and you get around 6%. So where to the boy-rapists come from? Predominately from the group that identify themselves as exclusively heterosexual. Promoters of junk social science, like the family research council, (cont)
(cont) attribute the attacks on boys to the 2%, thereby falsely giving the impression that 2% of the population does 30% of all the molesting. Why do heterosexuals molest boys? High sex drive combined with low self-control and an inability to get a female partener. They use boys as a substitute for adult women because boys have feminine characteristics, and they're easier to get alone than girls (eg fishing trip, etc)
You opress the entiery of someones sexuality and then expect perversions to not pop out.... Homosexuality is quite inborn, but everything else comes from your own absue.
I have plenty of bad statistics, sexual problems, divorce, crime, etc ... related to christians ... but throwing insults around wont get us anywhere.
Ok here's a statistic. The Gay Report, published by homosexual researchers Jay and Young in 1979, revealed that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger.5 (5. K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275. )
The question is, at what age did this sexual encounter occur? That is, how old was the person being surveyed at the time of the encounter? If they were around the same age, then this is not any different than the heterosexual population. In fact, hundreds of thousands 12-19 year-old heterosexual people have unwanted pregnancies every year. This stat seem more profound.
I agree. There's nothing wrong with adult, consenting relationships or even casual sex as long as everyone involved is happy with it, but repression can be very harmful to the psyche.
Has this Timothy guy ever heard the phrase "over-compensating"? No? "Me thinks the Lady doth protest too much"?
its there problem mate dont worry about it , gay marrage is cool , gays have been around for thousands of years , it was behind close doors and tiolets , not anymore , its 2008 , get used to it homophobes x
I concur with homosexuality having been around for thousands of years; nevertheless, as long as there are social forces to resist the rights of homosexuals, then I feel a need to speak out for those rights.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
gay marriage is an oxymoron, it just doesn't make sense. Why not just marry yourself? It's a statistic that most homosexuals have over 300 partners in their lifetime is that love or lust? It is a sexual perversion.
Hi davoidd. I think your first comment (that SS marriage is lke "marry[ing] yourself") puts too much emphasis on the physical. Romantic complimentarity is mostly personality-based, not physically based. This is why OS couples can last even when one of the persons has major physical defects (including defects in genitalia), or when one of them is 4 feet taller than the other, etc. And, while we're on this aspect, note that some OS couples are very similar physically. Continued in next post
Hi davoidd. I think your first comment (that SS marriage is lke "marry[ing] yourself") puts too much emphasis on the physical. Romantic complimentarity is mostly personality-based, not physically based. This is why OS couples can last even when one of the persons has major physical defects (including defects in genitalia), or when one of them is 4 feet taller than the other, etc. And, while we're on this aspect, note that some OS couples are very similar physically. Continued in next post
At least 4 PR studies show that SS relationahips are just as stable and long-lasting as OS relationships. SS relationships are well known to last over 20 years (and into death). See work by J. Townsley, who also happens to have a very interesting article on Romans 1.
At any rate, your statistical argument is not only factually false, it's also irrelevant. Nobody is trying to argue for homosexual *promiscuity*. Instead, we're arguing for recognition of stable SS relationships. peace
Ummmm... davoidd, where the hell did you get the statistic that most homosexuals have over 300 partners in their lifetime? Because that is definately some of the biggest load of shit I have ever heard... A good rule to follow is to not trust a single thing on the christian coalition's website or any other similar organization. They have bad reputations for seriously distorting scientific results and using pseudo-science for their own "research"...
I cannot agree more. Gay Marriage is a stand-alone topic. The slope argument has been used for Abortion, Euthanasia, drug legalization, Prostitution and Gay marriage, and I'm sick of hearing bad rhetoric. Furthermore I completely agree with you on incest, though I tend to think it's a cut & dry situation: If consenting adult relatives want to derive sexual pleasure from each other I don't see any issue with that as long as it's guaranteed there will not be any offspring.
I guess that's the problem with gay marriages. They can adopt children and bring them up totally screwed up for the future with a warped view on life.
I don't believe there is a single study that says gay parents are worse than straight parents, and there are many studies out there on this topic, so please don't speak of something that you don't know and spread lies davoidd...
Peer reviewed research dating back to 1978 shows that monogamous gay couples are more stable than straight couples and that their children are actually better adjusted than the children of straight couples. They're more tolerant and they seek less counseling.
Coolness. I know that research has shown that there are certain advantages of gay parenting, but I didn't know that overall children of gay couples are more well adjusted than children of straight couples. I didn't know about the whole gay couples are more monogamous thing either. Can you tell me where you got your info from? I'd like to be able to use it in my other debates. Thanks. :)
Charlotte J. Patterson (2006) Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents
Current Directions in Psychological Science 15 (5) , 241--244 doi:10.1111/j.1467-8721.2006.00444.x
Norman Anderssen, Christine Amlie, Erling André Ytterøy (2002) Outcomes for children with lesbian or gay parents. A review of studies from 1978 to 2000
Scandinavian Journal of Psychology 43 (4) , 335--351 doi:10.1111/1467-9450.00302 (has 9 citations according to Blackwell Synergy)
Just that people throw up crap about how you are gay based on the way you are raised which is laughable. If that were the case, I'd be totally straight along with redneck qualities. My dad used to be anti-gay but seeing me grow up he saw that it was not a choice. With that said, it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.
I have the same problem with my sister, who always compairs my homosexuality with the act of a rapist or child molester. This I find very offensive, since the (huge) difference between two people of the same gender having intimacy and a person molesting another person is not very difficult to figure out.
I agree with the poster's views. Gay marriage (or whatever term you use to define it) opponents are comparing apples to crayons (not even as closely related as apples + oranges). Pedophilia + bestiality are totally separate issues.
Being sexually with kids and/or kids (pun intended)... is obviously off base, out of touch and (morally) illegal (as it should be) by the people whom perpertate such acts. Two consenting, unrelated adults are another story.
Human beings who love and have sex with each other, whether they are of the same sex or opposite sex, is perfectly a human right, as long as it is between consenting adults, and they don't intentionally hurt other people. These homophobes like to confuse issues because they have no valid points, though I understand some of their fears, which are based on religious dogma and/or ignorance.
People who compare homosexuality to bestiality and pologamy are completely absurd. Homosexuality between consenting adults nothing nothing to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia committed by straight or gay adults is wrong; none is worse or better here. Bestiality is a whole other issue - there is no way an animal can communicate consent to human beings, and we are different species, so this is not to be tolerated at all.
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Countries with same-sex marriage: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Iceland, Israel, Mexico, The Netherlands, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, United States
Countries that allow some form of polygamy: Iraq, Malawi, Libya, Namibia, and Uganda
MikerL81 1 week ago
"Animal Rights", yes, the biggest issue with having sex with animals, is where it's moral. As animals cannot consent the way we do. Now, it's a controversial issue as to whether it's moral or not. Most people think not(it doesn't seem to harm animals like it does humans when children do not consent, but is nontheless nonconsensual and the logic makes sense to call it immoral on those grounds). Homosexuality can and frequently does contain two consenting adult human beings in love. Much different
BloodHalation 1 year ago
@BloodHalation I look back on this argument that I made three years ago. Apart from some grammatical errors for which I wish I could go back and slap myself, I still agree with ... well, me. And at the time, I said that animal rights, in the instance of animal sex, was was something that I question. I still do question it.
jesterbones11 1 year ago
@BloodHalation The *only* time I would agree that animal sex is "lawful" is if the animal consented. Seeing as I don't know how to prove this, I would assume that pretty much every instance of animal sex is wrong. Any zoologists out there
jesterbones11 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ron Paul on gay marriage (Dr. Paul says yes and even wins the Values Summit GOP Straw Poll!)
/watch?v=l1gzs27HswQ on gay marriage statement
/watch?v=ug1nZSI_fsA Values Straw Poll result conservation
Vote Ron Paul, President 2012! -- The anti-war candidate -- and champion of the Constitution!
vechorik 4 months ago
Homosexuality, is a sexual orientation..(like heterosexual, bisexual, asexual) The varying factor of what a sexual orientation is: the attraction to a GENDER of ur human lover.
Homosexuality is not compariable to Beastiality/pedophilia/etc. Because there's too many varying factors.
THe only way to compare is if u say A gay person commit a beastiality/pedophile act = a heterosexual person commmit a beastiality/pedophile act.
(duh,the sexual orientation of the criminal is a nonfactor)
ohnoyoudidntx 2 years ago
People will say "gay marriage won't lead to polygamy because we can define marriage as between TWO people", isn't defining marriage as one thing doing the exactly what they have been fighting against?
scata99 2 years ago
I personally wouldn't be against plural marriages. I wouldn't see myself with multiple spouses but I wouldn't bar people from making that choice. It should be noted, however, that we're talking about a minority who wishes to marry based on orientation and not merely the whim of having multiple partners. Antagonists to homosexuality of course will call it a choice nonetheless but it seems more a line of reasoning to be able to point the finger and criticize rather than basing it on sound science.
poolerboy0077 2 years ago
First I commend you for being consistent by favoring legal polygamous marriages also.
But how come you're against pedofiles because children aren't intelligent enough to be able to give consent but beastiality is "someone's private business?" surely if an 11 year old isn't intelligent enough to be able to consent then animals aren't either.
Also, why shouldn't beastiality "be celebrated or glorified?" Who are you to tell people what sexual acts should/shouldn't be celebrated.
miggetymike1 3 years ago
Migget
I'm gay and I think Pedo's and bestiality are wrong........And you were afraid you couldn't find the right words to apologize!
mark40511 3 years ago
Yeah. I had a great mom and dad, great grandparents. My dad hunted, as did my brother. They made me go with them and I didn't want to. I HATED it. My mom said she knew for the longest time I was gay as did my dad when I later told them. I remember in kindergarten during recess, this guy Billy Jack was chasing me and my friend Anissa, and I WANTED him to catch me. It's NOT a choice!!!
mark40511 3 years ago
What does your dad "hunting" have anything to do with anything?
fflybz 3 years ago
Animal sex? Paedophilia? Incest? Is this a list of the worst atrocities humans have seen?
Why is conservative society obsessed with ruling an agreement between two consenting adults who are willing to bind themselves to obligations and enjoy rights? Being born in a conservative family, I can understand the need to conservative people to gay people to sweep themselves under the rug.
migdez 3 years ago
Is polygamy part of the list of the worst atrocities humans have seen as well?
Adeon55 3 years ago
Talking about 'slippery slopes' works both ways. If we disallow two consenting adults from getting married based on their similar gender, what other restrictions might be passed? Will we regress to not allowing inter-racial couples from getting married or baring people with mild physical disabilities from adopting?
DeviousDynamo 3 years ago 2
devious - It doesn't work both ways. The very definition of marriage IS one unrelated man & unrelated woman. Interracial marriage doesn't compare to gay marraige because at the end of the day it is still a man and woman whatever race they are.
llouldeng 3 years ago
there was a recent study and Homosexuals brains have very similar part of the brain to F. so it s a fact. they can t change. there are a lot of teens kill themselves because of peoples narrow minds. YOu are right. If somebody says no. whether child or not it means no.
chad410 3 years ago
What in the hell are you talking about?
fflybz 3 years ago
98% of child molesters are Straight men and women.
amy2312 3 years ago 4
Dude you are so hot and smart too. Perfect package. Where do I sign up? Lol.
Soldierforthebroken 3 years ago
Thanks! Hmm, the best I can do is pointing you toward signing up onto the subscription to my videos (as I am not enamored by men).
jesterbones11 3 years ago
ew gross
heather4thecross 3 years ago
ew stupid.
Soldierforthebroken 3 years ago
If homosexual sex was "natural" you wouldn't need lubrication for your ass, it would lubricate naturally - it doesn't. BTW, you certainly look very gay. Couldn't find a woman that would do the kinky stuff you like eh??
coastalstray 3 years ago
Alas, I feel so compelled to answer when you are sure to begin by trying to insult me...
jesterbones11 3 years ago
*sigh* your logic is flawed
microphon3 3 years ago 2
Oh and as far as child abuse if incests had kids, what kind of mental abuse would it for a kid to grow up in a house where 2 dads or 2 moms is the norm? Too ignore the fact that a kid needs a role model from each gender is naive. And gay marriage would ENSURE this by design.
llouldeng 3 years ago
4. I specifically said that incestral relationships should be forbidden from having kids.
5. same-sex marriage children re: I do not think that you have done your research on this one. Gay couples having children is supported by the American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children,
jesterbones11 3 years ago
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians. In July 2004, the American Psychological Association stated in a resolution: "there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children...
jesterbones11 3 years ago
"... research has shown that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish."
jesterbones11 3 years ago
And I can even lend an anecdote to this, as well. A few summers ago, I worked in a day care for a summer with children from 7-12 years old. The most well-behaved, well-adjusted, and kind children were two twins who were about 11 years old. Since birth, they had been raised by two loving lesbian mothers.
The research should be more valid in forming an opinion about gay marriage; however, I will never forget these two children.
I look forward to your response.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
Then single parents should be illegal. Thanks for playing!
fflybz 3 years ago
fflybz - No, single parents can't marry themselves. Being a single parent is a lot different than the deliberate union of 2 ppl that would PURPOSELY deprive a child of a mom or dad.
llouldeng 3 years ago
Single parents can adopt, you moron.
fflybz 3 years ago
ffflybz - Yeah, and they are usually always in the pursuit of a new husband or wife/parent figure for the kid. Would you say single parents or gay marriage are the ideal family structure? Of course you don't believe there is an ideal family structure am I right?
llouldeng 3 years ago
Based on ur arguments, u think consentual polygamy + incest w/o kids should be legal. I duno why u think being gay is normal/natural but if some1 feels they're born attracted to family members, how do u determine thats not natural? But based on your arguments, you support my right to marry my grandma cuz she can't have kids? What gay marriage & polygamy (which would inevitable follow based on the exact principles) is DESIGN and PROMOTE by LAW, a lifestyle that DEPRIVES the kid of 1 mom and 1 dad
llouldeng 3 years ago
Thanks for the response. I'll take your contentions one-by-one:
1. homosexuality being natural re: There are various studies that have looked at child development and discovered that homosexual children are usually raised in the same ways as most other children. The only conclusion, then, is that it is something more inherent in the children. I would suggest looking at work done by Alred Kinsey as a starting place into research on human sexuality (though it has advanced greatly today):
jesterbones11 3 years ago
Okay, for whatever reason, I have not been able to give you the Wiki link. Sorry! Just Google 'Alfred Kinsey' and you'll find a wealth of info in the top results.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
"There are various studies that have looked at child development and discovered that homosexual children are usually raised in the same ways as most other children."
Do you think you could point me to this research?
Thanks :)
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
2. attraction to family memebers re: I do not know with certainty how strong the inborn influencers (genetic predispositions) are for sexual attraction to ones own family. However, that still does not defeat the point; whether social or inherent, as long as no children are birthed (which would affect the greater society adversely due to damage to the child), it is not my place to prohibit the sexual affairs of another.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
Therefore, you can marry your grandma if you so wish. The key: 99% of people would have no desire to do so -- it is far more *natural* to be sexually attracted to non-family.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
3. promotion of gay marriage/polygamy re: First, I do not understand what you mean by "exact principles". Could you please expound? Second, we ought to be promoting that people apend there life with who they love, so it is not about promoting gay marriage.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
Anyone interested in being moral would HAVE to support the legalization of polygamy and incest. Adults can have sex with any other adult. If you don't want some of these people procreating, then use persuasion and education, not force. And since we know that these rare arrangements (polygamy, etc) exist, it makes no sense to handicap their ability to rear children by barring them from the 1500+ rights and privileges granted by the state and federal governments to "married" people.
cockTHEgun 3 years ago 4
Anyways, thanks for pointing out the irrelevance of slippery slope
"If we let people drink coffee, the people will start drinking 100% alcohol, then people will start drinking PCP, then people will start drinking nuclear waste"
"If we let people have eyes, soon people will start getting cyborgnetic implants, and then people will start getting psychic vision"
BlackWolf4830 3 years ago
Haha. Nice.
However, I am most worried about letting people breathe. Once people are allowed to breathe, they'll realize the health benefits of proper breathing. In fact, they'll become obsessed with the benefits. That, of course, will lead to a movement to create a totalitarian society in which we are all forced to sit in neat lines and do breathing exercises for every waking moment.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
pedophilia has nothing to do with gays
alejandrox3 3 years ago
Well, there are certainly gay pedophiliacs, so to say pedophilia has *nothing* to do with gays would be wrong.
However, if you meant that a person being gay does not necessitate (or even heavily influence) that person being a pedophiliac, then I agree.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
No, when he said "pedophilia has nothing to do with gays", he means "it's an entirely different subject".
BlackWolf4830 3 years ago
I totally understand; I was just picking apart the construction of the statement. "Why?", you ask. Not really sure; just had the urge to clarify this (very) minor point!
jesterbones11 3 years ago
Have you read the wikipedia article on "Informed Consent"? I think it's a good basis for some of the logic you were bringing up in your video.
ecsciguy79 3 years ago
Has he responded to this??? I really don't like him...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
I've noticed that he responds to each gay video with the exact same canned response. He must just cut and paste... How boring.
ecsciguy79 3 years ago 2
Are there actually good reasons for consenting polygamous marriage? I think it might have to do with taxes or something. I think it should be legalized. They are consenting adults...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
I meant to say in my comment about polygamous marriage, "Are there actually good reasons for having consenting polygamous marriages be illegal?"
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
It may be a good idea (I'm neutral on the issue), but our legal system is not at all equipped to deal with them, particularly their dissolution. A lot of laws and policies would have to be rewritten to protect all of the parties involved (and that's completely disregarding the traditional risk of pedophilia, which is the bit of polygamy that seems to worry people the most).
glorpy2 3 years ago
What?
The US Constitution already deals with this issue. Not all gays to marry is illegal.
fflybz 3 years ago
And slippery slope arguments are fallacious in nature anyways...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
The studies on gay men molesting children tend to be seriously misreprested, and many well respected sex researchers have proven in a lot of their research and have said that gay men are no more likely to molest a child than straight men. There's a reason that the psychology field at large agrees with this research and not the claims against gay men being child molesters...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
Yeah, he's replied to some of my comments, and he says some pretty wierd stuff...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
In parts of southern Africa (and elsewhere on that continent) polygamy is a very healthy, normal, and civilized way to ensure the future of the family group both financially and socially. For the West to judge such things from a moral perspective is very odd to me.
beadlegirl921 3 years ago
I think you misheard my words, though. I didn't judge all adult polygamy to be "wrong"; I said that it is wrong for a child to be forced into such relationships because they have neither the emotional nor the physical maturity to consent to such relationships with full knowledge.
I actually said that adult polygamy (as long as it is between consenting adults) is not for us to decide. In many cultures, this is, in fact, the case.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
*However*, in those same society's, there are often people forced into polygamy (children and adults). If we can agree that free will is an ethical good, than we can both agree that forced polygamy is bad.
So to be clear on my argument:
Consenting polygamy = okay
Forced polygamy = not okay
What are your thoughts beadlegirl921?
jesterbones11 3 years ago
I presumed that is what you meant. Again, I must remind you that the Western idea of childhood (with its comfy sofas and video games) is very different from most of the world. It is extremely difficult for you or I to judge another culture based on our own moral and ethical ideas (which are ultimately taboos with an academic veneer). But perhaps I am just being picky. So lets leave it at that. When it comes sex between humans, most laws should be a very deep shade of grey.
beadlegirl921 3 years ago
mmm...he's cute. and educated! lol (= They don't make men like that anymore...
trobertson84 3 years ago 3
Thanks man,I know you get lots of freaks.
jbg42 3 years ago
Another statistic. Although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population. they constitute about a third of child molesters.
davoidd 3 years ago
First of all, davoidd, consider your sources.
Aside from that, the topic of child molestation has nothing to do w/ gay marriage. Anyway, not all (or even most) gays are child molesters, just as not all hetero ones are. Bringing up that particular point was unnecessary + off-topic, aside from your stats being questionable. Less than 2%? Please.
Fredo777 3 years ago
Here's what they are doing: True, only 2-3% identify themselves as exclusively homosexual. Take those wo reject the "gay" label, but report having sex only with members of the same sex in the last 2 years, and you add another percent or two. Now add bisexuals, and you get around 6%. So where to the boy-rapists come from? Predominately from the group that identify themselves as exclusively heterosexual. Promoters of junk social science, like the family research council, (cont)
eswyatt 3 years ago
(cont) attribute the attacks on boys to the 2%, thereby falsely giving the impression that 2% of the population does 30% of all the molesting. Why do heterosexuals molest boys? High sex drive combined with low self-control and an inability to get a female partener. They use boys as a substitute for adult women because boys have feminine characteristics, and they're easier to get alone than girls (eg fishing trip, etc)
eswyatt 3 years ago
You opress the entiery of someones sexuality and then expect perversions to not pop out.... Homosexuality is quite inborn, but everything else comes from your own absue.
I have plenty of bad statistics, sexual problems, divorce, crime, etc ... related to christians ... but throwing insults around wont get us anywhere.
I REALLY question your statistics as well ...
Jakemmx 3 years ago 2
You also forget that heterosexuals, then, constitute about two-thirds of child molesters. Guess heteros shouldn't get married either.
karainbow 3 years ago 3
Well.....Christians account for over 50% of the crime in the USA. Does that mean Christians are natural criminals?
bbacjm9 3 years ago 5
Wonder who the other two-thirds are?
bcraig5 3 years ago
Ok here's a statistic. The Gay Report, published by homosexual researchers Jay and Young in 1979, revealed that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger.5 (5. K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275. )
davoidd 3 years ago
The question is, at what age did this sexual encounter occur? That is, how old was the person being surveyed at the time of the encounter? If they were around the same age, then this is not any different than the heterosexual population. In fact, hundreds of thousands 12-19 year-old heterosexual people have unwanted pregnancies every year. This stat seem more profound.
jesterbones11 3 years ago
I agree. There's nothing wrong with adult, consenting relationships or even casual sex as long as everyone involved is happy with it, but repression can be very harmful to the psyche.
Has this Timothy guy ever heard the phrase "over-compensating"? No? "Me thinks the Lady doth protest too much"?
RotHHF 4 years ago 2
ding ding bing bing boing boing twang!!!!
Valtag67 4 years ago
its there problem mate dont worry about it , gay marrage is cool , gays have been around for thousands of years , it was behind close doors and tiolets , not anymore , its 2008 , get used to it homophobes x
glynnmcwilliams 4 years ago
I concur with homosexuality having been around for thousands of years; nevertheless, as long as there are social forces to resist the rights of homosexuals, then I feel a need to speak out for those rights.
jesterbones11 4 years ago
FUCK U
Hyuugaman64 4 years ago
That's not productive.
jesterbones11 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
gay marriage is an oxymoron, it just doesn't make sense. Why not just marry yourself? It's a statistic that most homosexuals have over 300 partners in their lifetime is that love or lust? It is a sexual perversion.
davoidd 4 years ago
First, cite that statistic, then we'll move the discussion on from there.
jesterbones11 4 years ago
Hi davoidd. I think your first comment (that SS marriage is lke "marry[ing] yourself") puts too much emphasis on the physical. Romantic complimentarity is mostly personality-based, not physically based. This is why OS couples can last even when one of the persons has major physical defects (including defects in genitalia), or when one of them is 4 feet taller than the other, etc. And, while we're on this aspect, note that some OS couples are very similar physically. Continued in next post
screenname10101 3 years ago
Hi davoidd. I think your first comment (that SS marriage is lke "marry[ing] yourself") puts too much emphasis on the physical. Romantic complimentarity is mostly personality-based, not physically based. This is why OS couples can last even when one of the persons has major physical defects (including defects in genitalia), or when one of them is 4 feet taller than the other, etc. And, while we're on this aspect, note that some OS couples are very similar physically. Continued in next post
screenname10101 3 years ago
(part 2)
At least 4 PR studies show that SS relationahips are just as stable and long-lasting as OS relationships. SS relationships are well known to last over 20 years (and into death). See work by J. Townsley, who also happens to have a very interesting article on Romans 1.
At any rate, your statistical argument is not only factually false, it's also irrelevant. Nobody is trying to argue for homosexual *promiscuity*. Instead, we're arguing for recognition of stable SS relationships. peace
screenname10101 3 years ago
Ummmm... davoidd, where the hell did you get the statistic that most homosexuals have over 300 partners in their lifetime? Because that is definately some of the biggest load of shit I have ever heard... A good rule to follow is to not trust a single thing on the christian coalition's website or any other similar organization. They have bad reputations for seriously distorting scientific results and using pseudo-science for their own "research"...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
I cannot agree more. Gay Marriage is a stand-alone topic. The slope argument has been used for Abortion, Euthanasia, drug legalization, Prostitution and Gay marriage, and I'm sick of hearing bad rhetoric. Furthermore I completely agree with you on incest, though I tend to think it's a cut & dry situation: If consenting adult relatives want to derive sexual pleasure from each other I don't see any issue with that as long as it's guaranteed there will not be any offspring.
Chrissepisje 4 years ago
I guess that's the problem with gay marriages. They can adopt children and bring them up totally screwed up for the future with a warped view on life.
davoidd 3 years ago
They tend to be far better off emotionally, educationally, and socially than the children of fundementalist christians.
Jakemmx 3 years ago 5
I don't believe there is a single study that says gay parents are worse than straight parents, and there are many studies out there on this topic, so please don't speak of something that you don't know and spread lies davoidd...
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
Peer reviewed research dating back to 1978 shows that monogamous gay couples are more stable than straight couples and that their children are actually better adjusted than the children of straight couples. They're more tolerant and they seek less counseling.
glorpy2 3 years ago
Coolness. I know that research has shown that there are certain advantages of gay parenting, but I didn't know that overall children of gay couples are more well adjusted than children of straight couples. I didn't know about the whole gay couples are more monogamous thing either. Can you tell me where you got your info from? I'd like to be able to use it in my other debates. Thanks. :)
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
Charlotte J. Patterson (2006) Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents
Current Directions in Psychological Science 15 (5) , 241--244 doi:10.1111/j.1467-8721.2006.00444.x
Norman Anderssen, Christine Amlie, Erling André Ytterøy (2002) Outcomes for children with lesbian or gay parents. A review of studies from 1978 to 2000
Scandinavian Journal of Psychology 43 (4) , 335--351 doi:10.1111/1467-9450.00302 (has 9 citations according to Blackwell Synergy)
glorpy2 3 years ago
"Same-Sex Couples Just as Committed as Heterosexual Counterparts" from the Washington Post (January 22, 2008)
"Gay Unions Shed Light on Gender in Marriage" from the New York Times (June 10, 2008)
Both are lay articles derived from peer reviewed, published research.
glorpy2 3 years ago
Wow, that was done really recently. I'll check it out. Thanks for the info. It should be useful. :)
annpetasupporter 3 years ago
You're a perfect example of a person who should never be allowed to have children.
fflybz 3 years ago
Just that people throw up crap about how you are gay based on the way you are raised which is laughable. If that were the case, I'd be totally straight along with redneck qualities. My dad used to be anti-gay but seeing me grow up he saw that it was not a choice. With that said, it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.
mark40511 3 years ago
TimthyRed is a gay-baiting troll. You'll see his comments on every video with a gay topic. He's obsessed with gays; a real fucked-up headcase.
eswyatt 4 years ago
I have the same problem with my sister, who always compairs my homosexuality with the act of a rapist or child molester. This I find very offensive, since the (huge) difference between two people of the same gender having intimacy and a person molesting another person is not very difficult to figure out.
namdar79 4 years ago 3
I am sorry to hear that about your sister; it is hard when family is not supportive of the most fundamental aspects of our being.
jesterbones11 4 years ago
Sorry, just watched it again, and not so blurry this time. (Very handsome guy aswell)
namdar79 4 years ago
I agree with the poster's views. Gay marriage (or whatever term you use to define it) opponents are comparing apples to crayons (not even as closely related as apples + oranges). Pedophilia + bestiality are totally separate issues.
On an unrelated note, he's also very handsome.
Fredo777 4 years ago
Why thank you!
jesterbones11 4 years ago
Ah. No worries, mate.
Callin' it like I see it.
Fredo777 4 years ago
Being sexually with kids and/or kids (pun intended)... is obviously off base, out of touch and (morally) illegal (as it should be) by the people whom perpertate such acts. Two consenting, unrelated adults are another story.
Joaquin437 4 years ago 3
Human beings who love and have sex with each other, whether they are of the same sex or opposite sex, is perfectly a human right, as long as it is between consenting adults, and they don't intentionally hurt other people. These homophobes like to confuse issues because they have no valid points, though I understand some of their fears, which are based on religious dogma and/or ignorance.
pppmanly 4 years ago 2
I agree on both counts.
jesterbones11 4 years ago
People who compare homosexuality to bestiality and pologamy are completely absurd. Homosexuality between consenting adults nothing nothing to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia committed by straight or gay adults is wrong; none is worse or better here. Bestiality is a whole other issue - there is no way an animal can communicate consent to human beings, and we are different species, so this is not to be tolerated at all.
pppmanly 4 years ago