Starcraft 2 discussion by Artosis, Tasteless, and NonY - part 3 of 3

[gaby9009]

ah nony with hair, tasteless with a voice and artosis without a kid

my how times change

[ethicks00]

lol why are all 3 of you wearing pure ownage tshirts?

[SCForAll]

@ethicks00 The t-shirts were given to them by Jeremy, from Pure Pwnage.

[ethicks00]

@SCForAll

ah, I thought this was in korea.



[SCForAll]

@ethicks00 This video was filmed in Korea, I think the t-shirts were sent to them by mail.

[ricodelta1]

gamers would get more respect if they went to a gym

[DontFearGrim]

@ricodelta1

maybe people should just be less judgmental... its not their problem they dont go to a gym, its YOUR problem

maybe you should work on being a better human-being

[Capeau]

@ricodelta1

im sure pro gamers actually keep themselves physicly fit to some degree. You dont have to have tons of muscles to be in perfect shape

[kamikrazi123]

@ricodelta1 Dude, it's pretty much their jobs. You don't see office workers and coaches physically fit either. Additionally, many pro gamers do keep in shape. Fatal1ty friggin went jogging everyday before he started practice.

[CantCreat]

Nony never press record hahahaha =)) fail

[Sinekyre14]

At the end he says "Comon you n****er press record." AWESOME! I LOVE THESE GUYS EVEN MORE NOW. Us white guys get to have some fun every once in a while too.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Awesome artosis. :D

[Ares11787]

@Sinekyre14 at the end he said 'Hwanni (the Korean manager of eStro) never pressed record" cuz Hwanni is the cameraman

[crusaderesper]

Going back to Starcraft after playing WC3 and not having automine or Multiple Building Selection makes me want to punch my computer. Thank god SC2 has these advancements. Did the pro players explode when they added right click rally to buildings? Advancements to the engine are a GOOD thing.

[lllshokoboylll]

i got an idea.. a tourney Sc2 vs Wc3 :)

[helbovine]

NonY for president.

[DeSTRoYeR992]

yea, i dont really know anything about NonY, but he seems to be very intelligent and funny lol, and i agree with everything he is saying in this video.

[Orion8888]

what NonY said at the beginning there is so very true.

[FalseNomen]

Excellent points. As a spectator of competitive SC, I really hope that some of the more user-friendly features don't let pros 'solve' the game and lead to the stale state that WC3 is in. I think it's important to realize that the game will not be perfectly balanced at release, and that it may take some time to be adopted by the competitive community.

[oktibokti2]

lol starcraft 2 sounds like warcraft 2 lol its like evry unit have somting like the zelot got a charge abilyty and some of the units got blink and stuff like dath its like warcraft 3 lol but im still gona but the game loks awsome lol

[Chimpalimp1001]

My 2 cents on MBS: I love it, it merely saves you a quick second and frees up control group keys. I would rather have 12 gateways set to my number 6 key rather then having to back to my base and click each individual one. I don't think it makes the game too easy, just saves you time doing repetitive annoying motions.

[NaturalTvventy]

too much of my time in SC1 is spent clicking on workers and buildings making units. It's fine to be part of the game, but it's too time consuming in SC1. I'd much rather the emphasis on the game be out in the filed, on scouting and battles. long live MBS and automining!

[kibaekr]

i really think the whole sc2 is gonna depend on koreas reaction.. even now the whole sc community(except maybe bgh) lives on the tactics of korean pros and MOST IMPORTANTLY korean maps... even with all these new features of the map, the map designer may not like the idea of 2 gas, and not like the idea that each worker carries 5 at a time, and thus increase the number of minerals in a single base , etc

[lostninjah]

I guess starcraft (1) will continue to be top esport if they make sc2 so easy to manage. Sc2 sounds more like wc3 but without the heros..

[DeSTRoYeR992]

LOL so funny that they just stare at the camera, one person talks, the other 2 just nod. LOL

[kibaekr]

how many different ways can u do an interview... lol

[dochmbi]

Well I really hope Blizzard is listening to this stuff, cause I'm concerned as a e-sport lover.

[liandzbergis]

I don't think mbs and automine will kill macro altogether. blizzard may just be forcing more apm into the battles. now even koreans are reluctant to use some units (ghosts, queens) because they require too many apm. maybe they are creating units with more special abilities that you have to manage in battles.

[eeg10]

Its more of the fact that ghosts and queens are expensive, and not very cost efficient. Lockdown is way to energy costly and so is spawn broodling. Queens are only practical for using ensnare to stop stims or parasite, but their high gas cost makes them much less attractive and defilers are a much better spellcaster with consume, plague, and dark swarm. Ghosts are just too expensive and fragile to use effectively.

[29Ocelot]

i agree with these guys, taking the macro out of the game, look at how boring zvz is, its because people have figured it out

[n3cr0punk]

I agree with vonster321 the tedium of macroing 10-15 gateways while in a tense huge battle is not fun, especially when you have to turn away from the actual battle in order to keep up your unit count up. So with MBS and Automine this will cut down the amount of these tedious tasks and give time to actually fight your opponent rather then shooting yourself in the foot by not been able to keep up with macro you have set in place.

[crazeh]

So basically it makes the game easier and more fun for noobs.

APM and the combination of macro/micro is what starcraft is all about. It's meant to be competitive.

If you don't think that's fun than play fastest.

[vonster321]

(see earlier 2 responses)

For instance:

Time energy and AMP wasted on tedious placing every single peon on minerals, is rather spent on microing units in *battle*, where the real action and fun is.

Dont forget that games of all kinds are meant to be played for enjoyment. Even the most serious games / sports are at least initially played for the love of the actual meat of the game.

Placing every peon to a mineral, that goes up exponentially when you have 4 bases, is not fun. Nor useful

[kakao777]

i pretty much agree on that vonster321.. And my own bigest weakness is the lack of contiunesive practise speeding thru the macro tasks. so that makes me relived to see this change in one way.. on the other hand. Starcraft is not just a very balanced game and got the e-sport comunity from that single factor.. it is alsow a highly intense fast paced macro large game.. Moving ur apm to focus fire or withraw units casting spelss etc. Dosnt just nesiceraly make it a more fun and useful way of......

[kakao777]

to use ur apm.. The units in sc1 where mostly fragile but powewrful. Making ur adrenaline at the highest knowing so much things is posible to happend in that fast paced game whenever u are multitasking either in ur base or on the battle field or w/e.. The need to do everything everywhere at anytime. As perfect as possible. Is somewhat the feeling u get u need when u loose and what u feel u've done when u win a game in sc1.. And nothing there in between.. Thats the feeling that is at stake <3

[vonster321]

... when in actual fact, the omission of automining and MBS to begin with was more than likely an oversight on the part of Blizzard that it was too late to correct in the original game without controversy.

All said and done these are tedious tasks that make the game too busy, are too overly anal, take away from other areas of the game that that attention and effort will be applied to, and are less fun.

No brainer for Blizzard and the 98% of players that are not pros and etc.

[vonster321]

I can see that the extreme reaction to rally point mining and MBS is coming from long time hardcore players, pros, and people who make thier living from the game in the industry (like commentators).

You spend countless hours learning how to work through a tedious task, and you are going to want to protect that investment and call it part of the "skill" to be dominant ...

(cont)...

[Danceofmasks]

One point that hasn't been made in SC2 discussions:

Broodwar added a lot of depth to Starcraft, and there were a lot of patches for balance.

SC2 will be a trilogy, so it won't be "complete" for a long time.

When it is all there though, there'll be so many more options, even with tech trees, and activated abilities in particular ..

Just saying .. three years down the track, there'll be the depth in SC2 we all want to see.

[pokerplaya345]

Get the SC2 Beta demo!

Download >> starcraft2demo. blogspot. com

[haderblaze]

So MBS & auto-mine will help level the playing field for people who are starting to learn StarCraft & for people who normally would play a game that has to be so engaging. I don't know about you all but I can't get many of my friends to play StarCraft because there is too much to do & they say it's no fun when you have to concentrate on 10 things at once. Thumbs up to MBS & auto-mine! :) P.S for this post to make sense please read it backwords. Read this one last. Cheers!

[haderblaze]

Conversely in StarCraft you can't become a "great" player until you get faster. So taking some of the multi-tasking out of the game will help the game focus more on the stratagy rather than on how fast a person is. Because lets face it... if your not in the upper echelon of players that have 200-400 apm, your not going to win many games. If you can't click that fast, your doing less than your opponent, & then your getting owned.

[DrunkAndAcoustic]

Theres A rank players with 130 apm

[DeSTRoYeR992]

lol no. A rank is pro.. so someone like Zero would be A rank.. The lowest they have is like 200...

[SCForAll]

It depends on what you define as pro.

I think A rank is pro, but a lot of pro gamers don't play on ICCUP much, just because the challenge/good practice isn't there like it once was.

A lot of B-team members practice with people from within their pro team or West server clan, and those West server clans are pro gamers mixed on different team. Example: Puma (eSTR), Baby (WeMade FOX), Flash (KT MagicNs), Great (Samsung Khan), are all in the same team (By. clan), but they still practice together.

[haderblaze]

Here is a very simple example. How complex is chess? Many comparasons have been made between StarCraft & chess. It is very easy to learn how the peices move in chess but to master the game... takes years. Exact same with StarCraft. The only difference is that people who want to "start" playing chess aren't hindered by the game, they are hindered by the stratagy. It's easy to move the pieces it doesn't take any speed or "apm".

[mognite]

what is NBS?

[SCForAll]

MBS = Multiple Building Selection

[Darkulla]

pure pwnage shirt? awesome tasteless

[cdavistwo]

thats what I've been saying the whole time... why add all this shit heres what a video game sequel should be. same game.. better graphics additional campaign

[CHumga]

WORD.

Much respect to Artosis, Nony and Tasteless.

[JOEMAMA5905]

whats mbs? sorry i know its a noob question.

[tnarg122]

Stands for Multiple Build Selection, it basically allows you to que up buildings by holding the shift key.

[Undeadtaro]

multiple building selection

[JOEMAMA5905]

thanks

[dijpak]

Although there might be a level of optimization for WC3, there are enough builds and matchups that the pro scene continues to evolve nearly monthly.

[M60Rambo]

wierd how they didnt discuss unlimited unit selection along with mbs and automine

[talic864]

pure pwnage guy in the middle rox =3

no matter what guys starcraft 2 will be a frigging ownage game no matter whatz.

[Darkbunnyfufu]

well i agree with most of your comments but i think the auto mining is fine in the game i think

[JonnyWedel]

did you mean, AND you think the auto mining is fine in the game? Cus i think auto mining is fine as well.

[niharjhatn]

auto mining is fine w/out mbs, but with mbs it'll make macro way to easy and take away the strategic late game decisions where we decide when and how much to focus on macro/micro

my 2cents

[JonnyWedel]

haha, well true i guess, but id rather focus on more fun things in the game rather than my keyboard.

[niharjhatn]

sc was fun because it was challenging.. if sc2 is not challenging it will just become another one of those rts's that just didn't make it

[JonnyWedel]

yea.. i know what you mean man.. Thats why i hope that if they do make things easier in some areas, that they make things harder in other areas. My main point about all this, is i think they should make things harder in the more exiting parts of the game like mid combat for instance.

[kekekwon]

automining they put it if you automine the builders/workers will all go to 1 mineral making it a bad idea to rely on automine in the early stages.

[JonnyWedel]

I have alot of respect for you guys. I love when people stand up and are passionate Serious about something they love, even when most people around them aren't. It's like your bringing the enthusiasm of Korea over here for the few of us that care alot about these games. I live so far from all the gaming hot spots, but atleast i can go on your websites and watch your videos and stuff to keep in touch. By the way, i watched all the blizzcon footage of the sc matches. You guys were awsome!!!!!

[SCForAll]

Thanks a lot Jonny, we're glad people are liking what we do with Starcraft. Hopefully Starcraft 2 comes out so we can commentate at more events.

[kakao777]

What a realy nice coment that made me so so warm in the middle of trolls, ignorant kids and nooby fastest people raping me ingame =)

And i agree apriciated it. made me munch for coffey and to go play some sc again havent played it for 2 months.., witch is always great couse now even dota players will pwn me calling me names over n over again.. only a game like sc would make u go thru that all days long

[spychi88]

Just stop bitching you faggot pro-gamers

[JonnyWedel]

Well i think they have good concerns, but they is a difference between getting getting rid of something that gives you more dynamics, and getting rid of something that is just anoying/more work/doesn't change who wins in the end. When i play warcraft 3 it is extreamly comfortable and easy to play, but the things that take away dynamics in wc3 aren't only those "luxeries" like mbs and auto mining if they take away any at all, (continued --)

[JonnyWedel]

as long as the game allows for dynamics somewhere else in the game then i think thats fine. For instance, would you rather have to assign each probe to mine as it comes out, or have them automatically do it as you focuse on something more important. I think they should replace the extra tasks that just make the interface harder, and put MORE tasks available in say, mid battle that do alot more for the game and take just as much skill. Starcraft gave you lots to do, but not always fun things...

[CooperLordOfAll]

wow...i really like their arguments for mbs and auto-mine. it should be a setting :-)

[Gerx888]

"they don't fuck around man"

hehe QFT.

coughWoWcough

[LastWordsFirst]

Hah. Great way to end the vid.