The Catholics and the Golden Compass

[rockbullet]

This is the worst attempt at being a smartarse I've ever seen

[youngwizard666]

JESUS AND SATAN IS FICTION

[Ring0fSaturn]

Thank you, Chalkers. This is a well thought-out vid. I appreciate your soft-spoken and articulate style.

I'm currently into the second book of Phillip Pullman's "Dark Materials" and am finding it a rollicking good read. Am I an Atheist? Maybe. I've been afraid of that title up until recently. Then I started reading Dawkins, Pullman, Hitchens, and other works like "When God Was a Woman" and "The Christ Conspiracy" and now I simply respect Atheism as a valid, rational world view.

[millahkillah08]

i love how christians feel that its their place to sheild the world from things they dont agree with and honestly i dont think a child is going to really catch on to the hidden "undertones" of the film or movies i think that metahapohors are within there reach or understaning

[SupermanPwnz]

I find it a little annoying how people talk about the movie when they really don't know anything about it. If you read the BOOKS you would know that in the third one, they do actually kill "god". Christians don't want these movies made because that's where it's going to end up. also, the talking creatures aren't "magical" really...it doesn't say that any of the fantastic things are magical at all. the bears for example, simply evolved differently from bears in our universe and learned to talk.

[gagnashdiak]

Actually they do not kill god. They free it.

[InfinityeXpress]

ok im christian.. i saw the movie because it was cool not becuase of the controversial blah blah blah. geez...im still christian after seeing the movie.. nothing bad happened to me. T_T it just a movie

[Kwizii]

thank you! :)

I saw Narnia, and I'm still agnostic!

People in general, chill out and have fun! :)

[SupermanPwnz]

btw in the third one they kill god....but really they had a good reason trust me

[unrest655321]

Wow. I missed all that hysteria at the time. How weird. I think you hit the nail on the head there with your response.

Atheism is not the same as a religion. It's the lack of religion. There is no dogma to it.

Why is it so frowned upon? A catholic will help people because God will look favourably upon in and it'll help them get into heaven. An atheist will help people just because they are nice even though they gain no personal reward from it. Is that really worse?

[kellyhrtsacting89]

ok i am catholic. but even i think that this a just a movie.and book series and the ideals should not be taken serios. i liked the movie.but no every catholic cares about this movie. i just thought i should put that out there!

[chalkers]

Thanks Kelly.

I understand that there are a wide range of people in the Catholic faith. Thanks for being you :)

[SonicProwler15]

it's just a movie. and it's not real. Someone please nail that to your nearest catholic church.

[universalJok3r]

The correct terminology is joker..

And if any of the catholic followers had taken the time to watch the movie they would realise that the magisterium really only looks like the church on the surface and has more in common with a government body than a religion.

and if you would take the time to notice it also has serious overtones on the use and misuse of science as well.

The church is to quick to jump to conclusions, like with the harry potter incident... and yes I have studied catholocism.

[universalJok3r]

The trouble isn't with the church solely though.

all it takes is one concerned catholic mother, who might mean well, to say something and it snowballs from there.

Then people get caught up in the hysteria of it and they automatically assume that it is evil when they have not even seen the movie yet and know nothing about it.

remember when pokemon was thought of the in the same way, then the pope said "it does not have any harmful moral side effects".

This is about censoring art you fool...

[dietcokeextra]

yahhh i know wut you mean they dont no anything about it and they critizice it

[universalJok3r]

Its not so much that they dont know anything about it, everybody, even catholics are able to be swept up in the hysteria of things like these.

one person says something and pretty soon it is totally blown out of proportion....

[universalJok3r]

"oh will someone please think of the children!"

Isn't the church just proving that it IS trying to control everyone by censoring everything.

Please don't let your child learn, she might start thinking for herself or worse, making her own decisions.. *gasp*

Doesn't this just prove how small an amount of faith the church has in its followers, if they think they can be converted by a single film...

Theres a reason why the bible refers to followers as sheep...

[geniedorea]

You have actually restored my faith in humanity today.

[chalkers]

And that's the only faith that's acceptable :)

[MasterMark123]

The religions of mankind must be classed among the mass-delusions of this kind. No one, needless to say, who shares a delusion ever recognizes it as such. - Sigmund Freud

***** All religions, with their gods, their demigods, and their prophets, their messiahs and their saints, were created by the credulous fancy of men who had not attained the full development and full possession of their faculties. - Mikhail A. Bakunin

[brunanburh]

I'm a Christian and have read all the His Dark Materials books- and thought they were great. It is a work of fiction which people seem to forget. The book is against self serving organisied religion typified by the Catholic Church. The teaching of the bible is also against 'religion' and dogma. Atheists- please don't dismiss Christianity based on a fictional novel (or poor film version). Christians- please don't dismiss these books based on media scare stories!

[forceofdust]

i concur

[naughtynaomi9000]

TO RIGHT!!!!!

[MGR1900]

The movie is a turkey, both in reviews and the box office, that it isn't even worthy of discussion anymore.

[not4resale]

loved this movie, the characters had much more depth than most childrens films. Narnia's characters were so bloody one dimensional. Seriously when i heard the atheist indoctrination thing i wanted to take a trip to my local church and slap the first preacher I found.

[TruthSeekerRukia]

I completely agree with you. If they let Narnia I believe they should have let The Golden Compass play freely!

[Omg8A8Giant8Rock]

Ive read the trilogy, they are amazing books! and just so were clear the story may be contravertial with god dying, but technically its not an athiest book as athiesm is not believing in god and the book has god in it! he may be a bad guy and die but never the less... anyway i dont think thell make the 3rd movie (r thered b a lot of censoring) wat do u tink?

[SoggyGibblets]

You know most comments here paint all 'christians' as a part of the catholic machine. Catholicism isn't a religion, it was created as and still is a means of controlling the populace by subverting their religious beliefs into a political system.

Google for how it all started and it's easy to see why they attack things like this, but dont confuse christians with the catholic church.

[fernandogonzales]

Well... im Catholic (somewhat)... If the church gets the impression they're the "magisterium" in this story/movie then obviously they have a problem with themselves.

[vampireluv2]

Honestly, it's just a fucking movie and Christians need to get off of their high pedalstals! Everything in film should not be taken literally, the same could be said about your book.

It is our right to express our opinions about your little boycott and blame game on atheist/non-relgious people. I would think that you people would respect that.

[vampireluv2]

It sickens me that they call it "indoctrinating children" when they indoctrinate children with their posion everyday. I would rather let my children decide for themselves what to believe in and watch a movie such as this other than telling them that they face a horrible afterlife in the pits of fire and brimstone.

[vampireluv2]

I have to agree with chalkers on all levels. Boycotting a fantasy film just shows how controlling Christians are and that they are trying to restrict our natural freedoms and United States Constitutional freedoms. Such as freedom of speech, press,media.

[wafotnytt]

haha have they ever seen the movie The da vinci code they that have seen it will understand what i meen -.^ and in the 3 book the church send out an assasin to kill lyra ^^ that is very nice

[zenithcollector]

very well said man! very well said ...

[belcherjermaine]

I don't know any part of the bible that condoned all those things like rape and homosexuality. In Sodom and gamora the people of the town was punished for there sins of evil. There isn't proof/fact for anything. Where is your proof that air exists? we cant see it nor feel it. I do agree that people are blowing this movie a tad out of proportion. Ive seen the movie. Its a "meh" movie. There really aren't too many religious themes. And the killing god this isn't till the last book.

[pianoman23Avi]

proof that air exists?? lol. breathe.

[belcherjermaine]

i was pointing that out to the director of the vid.

[PropabiliTea]

Finally a reasonable comment concerning this whole debate! I watched several videos appealing for a boycott and it's sooo absurd. This is the first unbiased video presenting reasonable arguments for this in my opinion superfluous debate.

[BadLactose]

Great video.

[TwinSkies]

As a Catholic, I don't see why my fellow believers are caught in such a hissy fit over the film. Why are we so defensive about something that could potentially evoke critical thought?

[malcolmX213]

Well bro. Apparently there is this evil government/religion thing called the Magisterium. Now personally I find it offensive that they would call something the fucking magisterium, let alone something bad.

[pianoman23Avi]

you are criticizing religion. no respect..

[chalkers]

Why is religion immune from criticism?

How did I show no respect?

[pianoman23Avi]

you really don't understand it completely cuz you're not a person of faith. it's your opinion and i regret even commenting your ignorant views.

[chalkers]

I do understand it completely. I was a man of faith, a missionary in fact, proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith is believing something with no proof, and by it's very definition is crazy!

I am far from ignorant.

[pianoman23Avi]

Your definition of faith is correct. But christianity, the catholic faith being the first, is clearly in the history books.

[pianoman23Avi]

Catholics may seem eccentric to many, but a watered down "friendly" film and hostile book series is to me, an attack on my faith.

[zolno]

And the bible saying all nonbelievers are doomed to endure torture for eternity in hell is offending to me so deal with it

[pianoman23Avi]

DUDE!!!!!! yur stupid. atheists don't boycott the chronicles of narnia cuz they don't believe in anything!!

[chalkers]

Your comment shows that you are what you called me.

[tomata182]

the movie is about disobeying authority.

[lovelymaid]

Okay this is just stupid. Yes Im a kid. Yes I read ALL the books in this series. And to tell the truth these were the best books I've ever read.Just becase it has witches, and talking polor bears and plans to kill god. ITS A FANTASY STORY ITS NOT REAL! No ones going to suddenly rebel and to kill god. I mean people that think harry potter and some of the greatest other fantasy books ever made should be banned I say you belive in your thing but dont tell others what to read

[oprachik]

personally i dnt like religion because it separates ppl and it can make ppl hostile against eachother. God is not in any way religious. I believe God is real. Religion and God is not the same thing.

[amindbody]

The church is tolerant, loving, compassionate and understanding.

Don't forget the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. I doubt Christian use these versions.

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"That God cannot lie, is no advantage to your argument, because it is no proof that priests can not, or that the Bible does not."

[vonspawn]

"The fool says in his heart 'there is no God'... the wise shouts it out to the world."

Organized religions have been lording our world for the last hundreds of years - yet what do we still see all around us? ...wars, injustice, inequalities and killings... isn't it about time we see what the alternative has to offer?

[wijse]

Except that the Catholic Church is preaching peace and unity. Tell me about a War which in the past 40 years have been done in the name of Catholicism and Christianity

[hothottoothh]

iraq?

[wijse]

Yes because the troops are half missionaries and half soldiers. So when they shoot people they try to convert them at the same time. And the Pope is the evil leader of a crusader conspiracy with the knights templar and the freemasons.

[seathanaich]

Recent wars in the name of Catholocism? Ever heard of Northern Ireland and the IRA? How about Catholic Croatians fighting the Orthodox Serbs through the 1990s, with pictures of the Virgin Mary taped to their rifles? The Catholic Church has been in bed with every Latin American dictator of the last century, and the Christian/Muslim conflicts across Africa are numerous. By "unity" I assume you mean "subserviance and obedience."

[1Hope4All]

chalkers, you know nothing of which you speak. I will keep you and especially your daughter in my prayers.

And Philip Pullman, you're a liar. You actually said, "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."

[rainingXstars]

Christians have opinions, just as all others from different religions. It's their opinion and if they want to boycott something that they feel is bashing their faith, then they can do that.

If people don't want to see "The Golden Compass" due to their morals, then don't make fun of them. By doing that, it is showing that YOU are the intolerant one, not the Christian down the street who won't be buying a ticket for "The Golden Compass."

[HanglerMongler]

So not tolerating the intolerant is being the most intolerant one. Curious way of thinking... I'm gonna tolerate nazis from now on...

[rainingXstars]

You know, most Christians are tolerant. Sure, some say that certian things are wrong. But consider this:

If your friend is using illegal drugs, would you tell him that it was wrong? Would you tell him to stop before he gets sick?

Christians do the same thing, but lots of times, it goes farther than drug use. Lots of Christians tell people that they're wrong out of love inspired by Christ.

[hothottoothh]

But isn´t it a bit arrogant to suggest that not believing as they do is wrong?

[chalkers]

It's a pity that they inspired to do something "good" rather than just being good.

[rainingXstars]

Yeah, because it's a pity that the human heart wants to do all levels of evil first.

[rainingXstars]

Why are you poking fun of the faith of millions of people?

So what if they view something as "anti-Christian"? There are many "anti-anythings" out there. How come this one is any different?

You heard the author say that it's up to the reader to decide and some people who have read the books say that it promotes athism. Those people are the readers and those people have made up their minds about the story's message.

[Mikurtis]

I have a problem with the priest here trying to act like we should listen to his "Truth". Uh, the guy acts like the Church lady from "Saturday Night Live"---he's a huge flamer working for the Vatican which tells me he's p[robably in denial over the truth of his sexual orientation. So, then, why should anyone listen to what he claims is true when he is false to himself????

[snapascrew]

he wants to make it the childrens book because the children are younger and will fall into it easier, would a 45 year old get into a guys car for candY? NO would a 6 year old? more likely, n00b!

[Una7654]

Ok, boycotting and censoring is not going to change anything. Why do people want to supress and oppose anything that is different? What are they so afraid of? A work of fiction? I do believe in God, but I dob't go to churh or read any religious texts. I just believe, but I'm not about to join a pointless protest.

[chalkers]

Protests often draw more attention to certain things and can be counter productive.

If there wasn't all this fuss over it people may not have drawn parallels, if any, to the catholic church.

[grievousfan224]

If a god will seek vengeance on anyone who likes this movie Im fine with it. It just proves that hes a miserable bastard who noone should pray to.

[LadyOlivia35]

I think Philip Pullman has a great point--religion can be used to hurt and persecute people (have the Catholics forgotten their own bloodshed with the Spanish Inquisition, among other mistakes?).

The early Christian church was very different from the dogma-driven church it became. For example, the early Christians believed in universal salvation b/f church fathers rewrote parts of the bible.

[chalkers]

Other gnostic texts were more liberal also which indicates the theology taught shortly after the time of Christ is certainly different to the doctrines and dogmas of today.

[en999]

The story isn't anti-christian, it's anti-dogmatic. The irony of it all is that the books aim to kill religious authority. The destruction of dogma. The God of organized religion. Exactly what Jesus supposedly stood for, before this perversion of Christinity we see today

[ahdolphins]

Wow. That is soo true "hell fire & damnation" lol. People seriously need to get a grip. If he Mr. Pullman is atheist, so what! It's his right to believe, or not believe. I am a Christian, these books & author are great, so get real people. If your faith is true, you won't let books, movies, etc. change it. Let your children decide for themselves.

[HarrietCapulet]

Oh, and another thing. NO PROOF OF GOD?! Ahem! Fish skeletons on mountaintops? OUR INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL DESIGN?! Explain how this (indicates self) could have just happened...POOF! Yeah, right. Get a life. Oh, I meant that literally. :-)

[chalkers]

I really hope you are joking.

[whatever678]

Oh he's not. He's dead serious.

And that's terrifying.

[HarrietCapulet]

I'm a girl, thanks.

[HarrietCapulet]

You hoped wrong, buddy. :)

[LadyOlivia35]

Agnosic doesn't mean you don't believe in God. It means you don't pretend to have all of the answers, unlike the brainwashed young man posting this video!

[HarrietCapulet]

You're right.

[chalkers]

How am I brainwashed?

I know what brainwashed is and what characteristics manifest themselves in an individual. How do I know? I was brainwashed by theistic dogma.

Thankfully I am out of the woods and free.

[HarrietCapulet]

You wierdo! The BIBLE has REASONS of why things are mentioned there! It's a little thing, oh, I dunno...called SIN!!!!

[whatever678]

OOOOOOOOOOOH SIN!

I love to sin.

[LadyOlivia35]

I'm not trying to attack you, but did you know that the bible was rewritten in part (interpolated) by early church fathers? The early Christians had a much more positive, universalist belief system.

[HarrietCapulet]

That's incorrect. No one rewrote the Bible. They just translated it.

[RebelVoDKa]

Good piece!

[chalkers]

Thanks

[capitainecanadien]

Im an Atheist, and im tired of being frowned upon by Catholics, im tired of being insulted for my non-belief...Catholics, calm the fuck down!!!!

[chalkers]

lol

[Norax7]

Good job man! I have no idea why people get so insulted with movies that have antheism in it. It's just a movie jeez!

[chalkers]

A movie that can INDOCTRINATE! Mwahahhaaaaaaa

[cloonmore]

A. You admittedly haven't read the books, so I don't see that you have any basis for opining whether the storyline is or isn't atheistic.

B. The question is why, if there's nothing wrong with an atheistic message in a children's movie, the producers and marketers aren't more open about it. Why hide it?

C. Why shouldn't Catholics boycott the flick? What do you care? Or does everyone have to spend their hardearned cash on crap like this?

[chalkers]

A. An atheist friend of mine said 'I am currently reading the book (all 3 rolled into one). I found it to be quite entertaining, but HARDLY atheistic. I agree, with all the magic and magical creatures, it's certainly a "stretch" to call it "atheistic"'

B. Money

C. It's stupid to boycott for such a none-reason. I care about the stupid spin that's been put on it - and how it was covered in the press. People can spend there cash on any crap they want to spend it on.

Thanks for your comment.

[cloonmore]

chalk, you'd be well to take Pullman at his word, rather than your friend's lame-brained review. Pullman says that he's "trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief," and that his books "are about killing God."

Go ahead, make whatever derisive comments you wish about Catholics, but don't be so dim as to deny the very atheistic agenda that Pullman acknowledges!

You're right about one thing, bud: it's all about money.

[manofsan]

No way, read Pullman's quote once again. You can see that he was speaking in relative to the context of Harry Potter. He was commenting on the boycott of Harry Potter by religious nuts, and then simply daring them to call him worse than Potter by upping the ante and declaring himself more "anti" than Potter. From what I see, he was using hyperbole.

[manofsan]

Again, regarding Pullman's comments that "my books are about killing God," I just want to re-emphasize that last word I wrote, using capital letters: HYPERBOLE

Learn what the word means, and then you'll understand the context of that quote by him.

[cloonmore]

manofsan, you obviously are the first who ought to consult a dictionary. Pullman's statement that his books "are about killing God" can't be hyperbole when THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE TRILOGY IS ABOUT. It ain't exactly a surprise ending.

Pullman's got an open agenda; Hollywood wants to keep it under wraps to dupe us into spending our cash on atheistic crap-o-la. Let the atheists enjoy the propaganda; the rest of us will keep our wallets in our pockets.

[manofsan]

cLOONmore: No, that's not what the books are all about. Yours is a circular argument: you say that the trilogy is about "killing God" because of Pullman's quote, and then you say Pullman's quote has to be taken literally because the trilogy is about killing God.

You must be a Catholic activist (God exists because the Pope says he does, and the Pope is right because God says he's infallible)

[manofsan]

It's the Church which has the agenda -- they've got a millenia-old money-making machine and they don't want to give it up:

Homage Inc.

[cloonmore]

manny, after you check out the dictionary, check out the trilogy, then come back here and try to offer something intelligent.

God is killed at the end of the trilogy. Ergo, Pullman's comment that his books are about killing God cannot by definition be hyperbole. That's not circular; that's cold logic. Learn something about it.

I don't get the unwillingness of some atheists to acknowledge an atheistic author's anti-God slant. Shame, I guess.

[manofsan]

The films do show an angel-like being evaporating -- the "first angel" who had masqueraded as God. But that hardly makes the film "about" this one event. To hear the religious fanatics tell it, this event is the central event of the movie, and the entire story revolves around it. No, this movie is not "about killing God." You make it sound like the shower scene in Hitchcock's Psycho.

[manofsan]

Excuse me, I should have said "books" and not "films"

[manofsan]

Your commentary came across as well thought and well articulated. Marvelous job, I really liked it. What about Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, which depicts the Earth not as a creation of God, but as some experiment calculate 6 times 9? Isn't that blasphemy? And Slaartibaartfaast, the bearded old man who designed the Earth, comes across as a bit addled and goofy.

[manofsan]

(cont'd) So isn't that blasphemous too? You can find all sorts of movies from SciFi and Fantasy that take a poke at God. So why pick on the Golden Compass?? Just because Pullman has called himself an atheist or agnostic? Big deal. What if he was Gay, would that be enough to make his motives suspect? Which group does an author, musician or artist have to belong to, in order for their work not to tigger some automatic suspicion? It's silly.

[manofsan]

(cont'd) Sir Ian McKellan happens to be Gay, and he did such an incredibly superb job as Gandalf (I understand he's also the bear Iorek Byrnison in The Golden Compass). Most of the mainstream masses hadn't encountered the story of the Lord of the Rings until they saw the movies, and been enthralled with marvelous performances like his.

[manofsan]

(cont'd) There are Christians who regard Gandalf as a representation of a Christ-like figure, and you can bet that McKellan's fabulous portrayal played no small part in making such an impression upon them. So why condemn any artist purely just because of their personal background - gay, atheist, whatever - and thus prematurely deprive yourself of the opportunity of being enriched by them?

[chalkers]

Two words: Compartmental Logic

[chalkers]

There are a lot of silly reasons why people boycott things. I remember this woman back at the church I used to attend during my brainwashed days boycotting Elton John because he bought flowers for X amount of pounds...I think she also alluded because of his "lifestyle" too.

[TITARNYA]

well said and well put. i agree with everything you have said and can wait to have the complete trilogy on my dvd shelf!

last note - the mere fact god is even in this undermines the argument as athiests dont beieve in a god or higher being.

[chalkers]

Thanks.

[blackwolf1272]

The response of this catholic minority is: 'We reserve the right to indoctrinate uncritical children for ourselves and can't allow anyone else to disturb that'.

[gonzarelli33]

The Golden Compass is written by an Aethiest that sets out to teach children that they are a God unto themselves and they have the power to kill God. This undermines societal fabric you idiots.

[chalkers]

You cannot spell atheist, idiot!

[blackwolf1272]

Daniel Craig stated that the Golden Compass movie endorses fundamental Christian values. Can children kill God? Does God disappear if children do not believe in him? If so, God must be quite incompetent to defend himself.

[blackwolf1272]

The societal fabric consists of the values of human morality, democracy and freedom of speech (at least in the modern part of the world). If you accept these values, you must allow dissenting opinions to be voiced. If not, consider migrating to Saudi Arabia. Note I'm not calling you an idiot - I'm not stooping to that unchristian (or not?) level of infantile shouting.

[methinxaweezil]

It's amazing how fearful religion is of any criticism, even when it comes in the form of a fantasy film complete with talking polar bears. That doesn't say much for it's sense of self-esteem.

[RobertlewisIR]

Meh. Let them boycott all they want. I reckon it's the Catholics that keep kicking my seat in the theatres anyway (and there's as much or more evidence for that than there is for their god).

[IHeartYew]

I am predicting for the movie to be a big hit. They spoke out against the Da Vinci Code, and that film went on to become one of the highest-grossing movies of 2006.

[absurdmike]

also not that great of a movie i thought. Only high grossing because of the book methinks