Maude Barlow - Can Protectionism and Trade Coexist?

[Salvysahagun]

I liked the title, but this girl is calling for genocide of human race

[r29]

I know I lived there. Have you been to China? Compared to what they have in the 1970s that is haven.

[SavageJim01]

And that there is the problem.China should not be subsidizing way too many companies anymore.They instead need 2subsidize housing for the poor,subsidize schools&spread public education.The chicoms are very developed already,the subsidies can now go 2the ppl as it should according to the egalitarian idea of communism.

They are after all the PEOPLE's Republic of China, NOT the CHICOM's Republic of China

[SavageJim01]

A little pollution? America is no longer the worlds p#1 polluter anymore. China actually is, and I do wish that they would adopt clean envrionment standards like everyone is urging them too.

[r29]

China should be able to pollute times what the usa is polluting (populations). The usa is the world biggest polluter if you look at how much each individual pollutes.

[SavageJim01]

Of course Americans will produce more carbon per person than per chinese person, and one of the primary reason is because each american buys a lot of chinese products. that means that american has a much higher carbon footprint. BUT if that american bought american made stuff, w/ US strict EPA laws, that person would drastically reduce his carbon footprint.

Buying chinese goods only contributes to more pollution. And it already is affecting the climate over the US

[r29]

We buy Chinese products because they are cheap and their quality is ok. Do some research on the American manufacturing history we invented lead paint (or attest we used it on a mass scale). Ok so American companies would follow EPA laws? Yes I think that is true. However the amount of money we would loss due to minimal wage would have disastrous effects. Also one tariff lead to an other. Believe it or not we export to China. We export 1.4 tril but import 1.7 tril.

[SavageJim01]

1.4 tril to 1.7tril, hmmm, that is still a trade deficit that is induced by chinese protectionism , &the chinese refusing to adopt clean manufacturing is 1 of those protectionist measures. So, speaking on protectionism, china is much more protectionist than you think.

Too bad economics&business classes are so heavily influenced in exploiting chinese "slave"labor&cheapness(which are fabricated by chinese protectionism)that this information is purposefully omitted 2 brainwash future businessmen.

[r29]

First of all they are not slave labor because millions of them have been lifted from poverty. Second of all protectionism is a policy that is enacted by the government against the natural forces of supply and demand. Forget about past protectionism, lets look at current protectionist policies. Agriculture, gov bail out banks and auto, by American act, so called "anti-dumping laws" the list goes on. China have protectionism. But they are moving more and more to free market where as we are not

[SavageJim01]

I agree, I believe the banks should have all gone down. BUT you have 2consider that the banks going down could cause depression. So the lesser of 2evils was taken. chinese protectionism is WAY worse than the US bank&auto bailout. We are doing his only 2prevent economic worsening. China subsidizes ALL the time for their own gain at the expense of rule abiding free traders (like the US) &not to stave off economic problems &china does not want to drop its protectionism.

[r29]

So our people missed up and our government helped them out and they still compete on the international stage? That seems unfair and natural. Doesn't that give them a right to be a little protectionist?

[SavageJim01]

Absolutely not, if we, the US are going 2be free&open, then china needs to be free&open too. NOW, if china needs 2bailout companies because it will hurt the economy, then yes, that is the only time they should be allowed to subsidize. But@all other times? no.

[r29]

We had to legally bail them out because our gov guaranteed these banks. China does not have such laws. When a banker in China fails he/she is expected to resign not to be paid by the gov for sucking. Just because some of us think it is acceptable to bailout banks does not mean we have the right to expect other counties to feel the same.

[SavageJim01]

As I said, I agree with you the banks should go down because they were run like crap&probably were corrupt(likeEnron).But I am not given the details&the causes&effects.If I knew those,I most likely would have taken the same action,butt would have let WAY more banks die, they deserve it.

[r29]

Trade is based on giving something you don't want for something you want. We can not force our political ideas on them that is not trade.

[SavageJim01]

I disagree here, as politics, ideologies, be they Democracy, Communism, Republican (not the party) or whatever, they are rules.

For example, both our capitalist-democracy&china's communism are founded on egalitarian ideas in an effort 2spread resources so everyone has enough to live. Now the idea of life, liberty,&pusuit of happiness is meant 2give the opportunity 2have a little more 2prosper& advance. And these ideas do play a part in economics.

[r29]

Our country was funded on a small government because out founding fathers believed that economics had no room for politics. Over the year we have expended the role of the government to the point that the president can appoint CEOs. China on the other had have dramatically reduced their government. I do not believe that gov should have say in economics. Both China and USA have problem with politics but in the end it is we the people that suffer from them.

[SavageJim01]

Unfortunately, due to the delicate nature of the economy, and the economy actually forcing themselves into government by way of lobbies, the gov had to do something instead of allow a depression.

Unfortunately, the companies pushed themselves too deep into gov, the gov really did not push itself into the economy until its hand was forced to.

[SavageJim01]

Also, I should add, the work condition of the chinese workers are not as good as you think either.Chinese workers are made to touch&handle poisons where US laws prohibit such.They are made to do other dangerous things you would never be forced to. Yes, they eat&are clothed,&sleep under a roof,but is iot worth sacrificing your health&not get paid enough to help your poor family in the farms?

[r29]

Wage is determined by many things such as supply and demand but not empathy and human rights. It is economically incorrect to say that because you need 10 dollar per hour to have have what people have on TV, that we have to pay you that much even thought the market says that you should only get paid 1$ an hour. If that were true i'd just not go to college and just demand the country to suffer so i can be over paid.

[SavageJim01]

For wage to be set by only supply and demand, you destroy part of the American ideal: Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness.

Human rights and workers rights as well as preventing exploitative labor is what makes American capitalism work.

And trust me, a well paid middle class feeds the government to continue to run: Well paid workers pay taxes. And the people have a say in government so the gov knows if it is being too repressive or not. I consider wages & human rights linked.

[FlamingTide]

I think the people in "those parts of the world" would much rather put up with a little pollution than starvation. No one forced them to make good for us.

I admit I'm an enviromentalist but they are ways to combat enviromental damage AND have free trade. It isnt one or the other

[21288003771215]

What is this i don't even.