@DaytonaRoadster That might be true, but it is impractical and that was the point. Even if you were somehow able to kill all the people that sympathize or strongly believe in a idea doesn't mean it is dead, maybe functionally dead but it still exists.
You argument might be valid but its asinine if we take into account ethics, moral objections and sheer impracticality of such an undertaking.
Fallout is just radioactive dust particles because the dust that gets sucked up into the mushroom allows the nuclei to bind with dirt.
If a nuke goes off and you're out of range of the heat and blast (so you survive), just head opposite the direction that the wind is blowing and stay away from ground zero for at least one month.
Trent Franks has been an unwavering supporter of former Republican House Majority Leader Tom Delay. Tom Delay resigned from his seat in congress after being indicted for his possible connections to the Jack Abramoff scandals.
The GOP has said that they would rather see American fail then see Obama succeed. Which means that they would have rather seen our soldiers be killed in action then actually complete their mission. - the right wing is shameless
I don't know who that guy's trying to convince, the sheeple or himself... Conservatives are funny in how they completely disregard facts & logic, but sometimes it's just sad. This is one of those times.
Several tomahawk missiles on the nuclear facilities would be "morally wrong in every conceivable aspect" ??
Are you Ahmadinejad's nephew ?
When iranian insane regime starts to blackmail the rest of the world, then you will tell them "you can't do that it's morally wrong in every conceivable aspect" ? Now that is relief.
We can sleep peacefully as long as you're on guard.
@aaxxes we can't sleep peacefully as long as you're on offense. We can't just attack a country because they posses nuclear weaponry, potentially killing millions of innocents.
I mean, are you insane, you would risk nuclear war? They don't have own icbm missles, the only way they could nuke us is if they smuggled one in, attacking them would only encourage them to do so....
Why you're refusing to leave the world of imagination?
What millions of innocents you're talking about? I'm talking about destroying nuclear facilities by one efficient attack, like Israel did with Iraqi nuclear complex back in 80's.
Following your splendid logic soon will be nuclear weapons in the hands of every deranged moron in the world. A wonderful world. But then you will be in the mouse hole and leave others to solve that little issue.
@aaxxes Why the fuck do you think the Israelis have not done it yet shit for brains? It is a RUSSIAN reactor, manned by RUSSIAN atomic scientist and engineers. You think they will be too happy when a dumb-ass like you drops a bunker buster on it? It is just that kind of thing that escalates tensions that lead to stand offs and war. Tell me did the Americans do shit to stop the Russians invading Georgia, an American ally? You think America scares them or they would not retaliate in some way?
@aaxxes FUCK SHIT ASS COCK WANKER oops sorry yeah thats my Tourettes..Yes the Zionist are cowards but let us leave that for another day. Has North Korea gone crazy and nuked the world? Has Pakistan? What the fuck makes you think Iran would. Your Fox news raped brain is very shallow. The U.S. can not afford to get in conflict with Russia or anyone else. And FYI Israeli has armed drones that can reach Iran, plus you don't think the U.S. would let them refuel off shore somewhere? Or in Saudi?
@aaxxes Have you ever been to Israel and the Palestinian territories? I have. If you saw what I saw you would not hold Israel in such high regard. Anyway, you have to remember the U.S. is pissing on Iran's door step right now, backed Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war, installed a puppet dictator into Iran. I hate Ahmadinejad as much as anyone but Americans do not have the right to tell Iran what they can or cannot have. If US forces were not in the area there would be no threat to the US.
@hunkgod U.S. is NOT pissing on Iran's door step, US wants to go out of there as soon as possible, but quite the contrary, Iran is pissing not just on Iraq's door step but on Iraq.
Iran wants to be a leader of the whole muslim world, and that's why it needs nuke, to wipe Israel off the map, take control over arab countries and to lead a global conquest for its religion.
Yes, everyone has right to tell and force Iran what they can or cannot have if it poses a huge threat as it is.
@aaxxes ...problem is, you are one of those who gives a fuck what happens to Israel and I do not. Israel is the single biggest foreign policy blunder in US-Anglo history. From a national security standpoint, backing them bring more heat on America thing else it does with its crappy foreign policy choices. Israel knows it has American politicians by the balls because of jewish votes in America.Israel answers to no one and just leeches money of the American taxpayer.Talk about cutting the budget?
I'm sorry, but this guy is really misguided if he thinks that the terrorists are not going to retaliate... I mean seriously, yeah Obama gave Bush credit. Why wouldn't he have? I mean yes you may not have liked him but guess what. HE was the one who started the man hunt for Osama anyways... So yes a little credit does go to him. And about the politicizing the death of Osama, I guess we will have to wait until Elections on November 6, 2012 to find out for sure how far Obama is going to take this.
I disagree. If we're going to continue as the world's biggest asshole, we need our bloated military. Without it, the rest of the world would band together and kick our asses to shut us up.
@aaxxes There is a difference between sitting back and appeasing a world super power bent on invading an entire continent of neutral countries, and forming our own imperialist nation and invading foreign countries in a losing war of attrition.
you know, your stance has a name too, its known as neoconservatism.
@aaxxes ..and who give a shit about what someone from Norway has to say? What influence dose your pathetic little ball sack of a nation have on anything? I think you should know your place. The Russians should have rolled over your asses during the Soviet expansion. Obviously there was nothing of value for them to take.
@hunkgod If you're so impressed with Russians, why don't you get a job in some Moscow brothel. That way you could relax terrifying Russians, and thereby do something for the world's peace.
Btw, have you considered doing something about your Tourette's syndrome ?
I was joking. I guess you missed the subtle hints. For example, a real supporter of our bloated military would likely not call it "bloated".
By the way, not all of the world outside of the U.S. and its buddies is third-world. And the other advanced nations don't like us as much as you might think. But even third-world nations could add to a fight if they really wanted to. Anyway, I'm not interested into starting some sort of debate on this, since I was just joking to begin with.
@Anon11674 "advanced nations" like China, where people get 11y prison for nothing?
Or "advanced nations" like Russia where opposition is sort of forbidden, journalists are killed by gov., and where they keep a man in prison for 8 + 6 years for financial support of the opposition ?
The world is not a hippie field of flowers. If you want to keep your freedom you must fight for it all the time.
If you're afraid of "other advanced nations" start adapting to their "way of life", you'll need it.
How do you translate "Cut down our bloated military to a realistic size" to "Become pacifist"? If you're going to twist my words so blatantly, there's no point trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Sorry, but you're just too confused for an intelligent conversation.
1) You told ME: "a real supporter of our bloated military would likely not call it "bloated" " (???) wtf
2) Why did you quote "Become pacifist"? Have i used the word "pacifist"?
3) You said: " other advanced nations don't like us .. even third-world nations could add to a fight ..if we continue to be the world's biggest asshole .. they finally have enough and decide to kick our asses."
You seriously don't get it? I know exactly what I mean
"Bloated" is a negative term. Someone who supports a huge military is not likely to use the term, and I used it as part of my satire. Does this make sense to you?
"If you want to keep your freedom you must fight for it all the time." Is this referring to pacifism or not? If not, it's a strange choice of words.
Did you not understand the last part? It was half-joking, based on the fact that many consider Americans to be assholes
@Anon11674 I of course know where is your confusion, but i left it up to you to give some explanation. :)
For some inexplicable reason you think that i understood your post @Darusdei "If we're going to continue as the world's biggest asshole, we need our bloated military" - literally. lol
@Anon11674 As for your quote use, one puts an expression related to interlocutor's stance in quotes, exclusively if interlocutor used the exact expression or word, right?
As we know i didn't use the word pacifism, since i think your stances have nothing to do with pacifism.
The proper word is, as i've already said, masochism.
Cutting a bloated military down to a reasonable size = I think we have no enemies? Where's the connection? You've been blatantly straw-manning me this entire time. The sad part is, I now think you have no clue you're doing it.
My entire first post was a joke, though with some truth in it, you sorry twit. If you can't figure that out, you're even worse than I thought. And the hints were subtle, I said, not the joke.
"Then nobody wants to hurt you and you'll live in peace & prosperity for the next 100 years."
Are you not aware of what you're posting?
I've been looking at your comments. You talk shit like this to everyone who disagrees with you. Either you're mentally deficient and you think everyone else is an idiot, or you're just trolling. Either way, I've wasted my time too long with your dumb shit. You wouldn't even be the fun kind of troll to pick at.
I have to admit i understand you completely. When someone fails to provide any argument for their discussion (apart from 'they consider us assholes' and 'they will kick our asses') then the best thing he can do is to withdraw from the debate.
Why did you expect that you have had a special treatment by me ?
Yes i am aware, and so do you. This quote of mine is exactly what you're hoping for, as it's obvious that you'd like to appease those who want to kick your ass, by cutting down your "bloated" military, in order for them to desist from kicking your ass.
In this little conversation you demonstrated an amusing amount of confusion (you were explaining to me your "hidden half-joke" and "subtile" hints in several posts, eventhough i didn't give you any reason for it :), a misuse of quotes, an inability to answer my questions (like what does "reasonable size" mean) and ability to answer me what i didn't say at all (like that made up equation).
You haven't got into the merits of this claims, nor you're at all interested in it, but you're just eager to appease them by cutting your "bloated" military down..
You are extremely naive if you think it would satisfy them.
Those dictatorships have their own goals and agendas to dominate over others, so just appease them and say goodbye to freedom.
Actually, you are exactly what they need, and what they're hoping for.
To conclude, there have always been Churchills and Chamberlains.
You are a small chamberlain, anytime ready to meet expectations and requirements of all deranged dictators accross the world, who would threaten you with kicking your ass.
You wanna-be liberals, wanna-be smart, actually just impotent spineless appeasers, gave liberalism a very bad name.
And your ridiculous high-school question just shows the coordinates of your mind.
You haven't given a rational answer to my question, so kindly fuck off. I'm not going to rise to your attempts to assign positions to me that I don't hold and never stated.
You're angry for i haven't given a "rational"(sic) answer to your question, why someone from Norway is defending America, so that i can kindly fuck off ?
Lough Out Loud :D
I'm NOT assigning anything, i'm quoting your words. Period.
By the way, how is my stance one of appeasement? My satirical stance was that if we continue to be the world's biggest asshole, we need a big enough military to hold off the world when they finally have enough and decide to kick our asses.
@Anon11674 Why "asshole" ?? Because of taking down a terrorist regime that was threatening your country and oppressing its own people ?
Some world's dictators (and by propaganda poisoned people) say "you are assholes" and you repeat it "we are assholes" ??
"They" will try to kick ur ass either way, that's how the world works. So will be better to have big enough military than to not have it (or else keep it (your ass) ready for them).
No, i didn't find those subtle satirical hints in ur posts.
the president can not protect us he is on the black side and on the side of the people who want to destroy us thjnk about it do you feel good with this bum in charge
@jpav0923 No I don't think you care of his condiment choice but I do enjoy pointing out the naivety of your use of such trivial matter. Cloward piven is suppose to worsen economic situations. Unemployment is going down. Weird. And we were already off the damn cliff before Obama even took office. I love that the catch phrase for every person who hates Obama is "WAKE UP!" you guys are brainwashed to repeat the same talking points and don't even know it
@hajqbvii well actually it was more on clintons watch seeing as bush *just* got into office when 9/11 happened, thats like when the republicans blame obama for the recession. In reality 9/11 was noones fault, other than the terrorists that did it (not that im defending bush or nething).
@2010GOP Dude, torture doesn't work. Look into any study that is done regarding these issues. Moreover, you need to decide what kind of country you want to live in: the kind that will take away rights and torture, or the kind that comports itself in a somewhat civilized manner. Gitmo had nothing to do with finding Osama. How would people in Gitmo for the past 7 years have any useful information regarding that; sorry, but your explanation doesn't add up.
@28stads: LOL. YES, Gitmo & interrogation is what led to Bin Laden. Go argue w/the military.
abcnews . go . com / Blotter / khalid-sheikh-muhammad-capture-osama-bin-laden-courier / story?id=13506413
And I want to live in a country w/some common fk'ing sense. Terrorists don't have "rights", moron. Not even under the Geneva Convention. They're not soldiers of their country.
If you're mama's throat was about to be slit, you'd care about water in someone's face? Use your damn head
@2010GOP Funny that most military and government people - even some from Bush's administration - disagree with you. If we torture then we have no grounds or right to complain when and if a US citizen is tortured by a foreign government.
@xexixk: WTF are you talking about? Enhanced interrogation is how we got Bin Laden. "Most people" in the military includes me. "Most" think you're a pussy & fk'd in the head, as is your hero
@2010GOP Sorry your are the idiot. Torture doesn't work. Give someone an hour with you and a water board and they will have you confessing to anyting. You will tell them whatever they want to hear in order stop it regardless if it's true or not. Been said over and over by many in the military and government they received little information of any use. You are the fucking idiot if you do not realize that if a US citizen is tortured by a foreign government we now have no grounds to complain.
@2010GOP Pointing out typos doesn't make you look intelligent, just shows what you must resort to because of your weak arguments. The fact one is not a soldier doesn't mean they can be treated in whatever manner you wish to treat them. You keep quoting one news article over and over, that has been dismissed by government officials.
@2010GOP What you don't get b/c you are too damn stupid is that now if a US citizen - including you - is ever tortured by a foreign gov then we have no right to complain. Notice I said citizen not soldier. You ignore how many of those people held in gitmo never should have been there in the first place, how many were simply turned in for cash rewards by Afghanis for the cash and also as revenge for personal/family disputes. Get out of your mother's basement and do some reading.
@xexixk: If I was a fk'ing terrorist, they'd do more than throw water in my face, you fk'd up moron. I can quote many more ---- including Obama Admin officials.
From Leon Panetta: "We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
@2010GOP I love how hysterical you become the more you go one. Your love of profanities (which I admit I replied in kind with since you so fond of them) doesn't help you either. The Khmer Rouge and the Spanish Inquisition both also used water boarding. Next thing you will defend them as well.
@2010GOP That news article says the information came out of gitmo - most government officials deny water boarding has ever taken place at gitmo. By the way Donald Rumsfeld says the same. Rumsfeld also has said that the information that led to bin Laden was obtained through normal interrogation methods and that water boarding had nothing to do with it.
@2010GOP Yeah and plenty of government sources - including from the Bush administration such as Rumsfeld of all people - have said that his waterboarding had nothing to to with it. There are also a number o insiders who were involved with that who have come forward over the years and said that the vast majority of the 'info' they obtained from him was useless and appeared to be fabricated. You are rather selective in what you choose to believe or not to believe.
In THIS CASE ... the one resulting in locating Osama Bin Laden ... was compliments of waterboarding Khalid Shiek Mohammed, a Gitmo detainee, per Obama's CIA Director, Leon Panetta.
@2010GOP Yeah and you ignore the opinion of those from the government who contridict that. You also ignore Panetta when he said that it was an open question as to whether such information could be obtained by other means, you ignore Panetta past testimony that water boarding was torture and wrong. Sorry you are the one living in a simplistic bland and white bubble.
"We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees and used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta simply said “that’s correct.”
Phew! The Obama Admin seems so outraged on "how" they got Bin Laden, huh?
@2010GOP Your personal insults are great! Really shows the weakness of your argument lol. I don't care what 3 sources you site its the same story, same one person and ignoring all others. What institution of higher learning did you learn your debating skills as? Harvard? Princeton? Yale? Brown? As Pat Buchanan once said "Personal insults are the last resorted of an exhausted mind." I admit I resorted to a few too, but only because you love them so much.
@2010GOP I didn't say they were lying. I said you were esentially relying on what is the same article quoting the same person instead of looking at a variety of sources and government officials - past and present. I've listened to Panetta. I've also listend to Rumsfeld and others. Something else that is funny is you ignore and forgive Bush for not going after bin Laden. You must have forgotten that coment of his that he didn't know where ben laden was and it wasn't a priority for him.
Rumsfeld obviously couldn't know the final outcome, unlike the CURRENT CIA Director, Panetta. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
And I know precisely what Bush's comment was. It was clearly over your head, flipped & twisted by the media for you Libtards to cling to. If Bin Laden's followers & training camps are destroyed, Bin Laden himself is less of a threat, as are his followers. Idiots can't grasp that getting Bin Laden was mostly symbolic.
@2010GOP yes he could of. Multiple times before Iraq a ground invasion failed in other countries, why would it be any different?
Point is, political targets can be taken out with spec ops instead of multi trillion dollar wars. I'm glad the osama thing came up, i've been saying do that for years.
@Andy180084: Osama would have never been found if not for interrogating detainees at Gitmo. Those terrorists didn't just walk into Gitmo --- it took military action to capture them in the first place.
@2010GOP funny the SAS, the KSK, and the French special forces are widely considered the greatest special forces teams in the world, and yet they did not invade a country (in fact no gitmo equivalent either so no international treaty violations too). Keep Gitmo, torture essential insurgents, and get the information, no invasion needed.
and wait a second, are you suggesting we will find useful terrorists in IRAQ??? Haha, that failed war was caused by the deception of a detained terrorist.
@2010GOP We're all aware of the symbolic nature of killing bin Laden at this point. There was nothing difficult to grasp about Bush's comment. He was more focused on his military misadventure in Iraq- a country that never attacked us and was of no threat to us -- which took our focus and attention off of Afghanistan. The thick one would be you.
a) Go argue w/Democrats who insisted Saddam was a threat & wanted action over WMDs even before Bush was in office --- and then yelled about it even louder after 9/11.
b) Go argue with the Pentagon & Dept of Defense who has evidence that Saddam was harboring & financially supporting various Al-Qaeda groups operations, so of who were tied to Bin Laden.
@2010GOP All of those lies for going into Iraq have been dismissed. Go read the Downing Street memos to start with. the al-qaeda connection has be thoroughly disproven - in fact they would have been a threat to Hussein's secular regime.
@2010GOP I fully understand your comment. You assume if I criticise a person from one party that means I blindly follow and excuse the other. Sorry to inform you that you are wrong. I don't really care for either party. No the memos have never been "debunked" - provide the evidence. People screaming, no it's not true it's not true is not evidence. The gov - including Bush era officials - admit WMD never existed.
@xexixk: It's obvious that you're a MSNBC watcher. I don't believe anyone else could be so insanely brainwashed & misinformed.
Downing Street memo? One of many: slate . com / id / 2121212 /
3rd time: Democrats were urging for action against Saddam over WMDs even BEFORE Bush was in office.
Intel stated there were WMDs. Obama's "economic intel" said that if we passed the stimulus, 3 million private sector jobs would be created. Was his intel wrong or was he lying?
@2010GOP And you ignore all of the current evidence showing what intelligence was not accurate and what was faked. You also ignore they now admit the WMD did not exist. Iraq was no threat to the US - if Hussein attacked the US we could have more than defended ourselves - and he knew that. You seem to be addicted to war and death.
@2010GOP Amazing that you folks who scream about fiscal responsiblity have no problem not only spending god knows how many billions but borrowing it - on a war that was not needed.
@2010GOP Basic fact of life: We can't go trooping around the world remaking every corner of it as we wish the world were. Anyone who things so is ignorant of history, and at best highly naive.
A terrorists' cock is being shoved down your mother's throat .... her legs being forced open & repeatedly raped ... and the next day they're going to saw her head off with a dull blade.
And you'd tell investigators to not waterboard one of the terrorist's buddies who was captured in order to learn of your mother's whereabouts. Yea, right, fk'tard
@2010GOP Why don't you go get waterboarded yourself like some journalists have - then you can come to an informed opinion about it. I would imagine you are too cowardly. You are the pussy coward as well, pussies and cowards like you always base the opinions on raw emotion not reasons and facts. It takes no courage to be an ignorant nut case.
@2010GOP You cant use personal examples because they arent torturing our mothers. That argument is irrelevant and weak. And I pray to whatever higher being exists that you can tell the difference between war and torture. Shooting someone is one thing but extending their pain and suffering is inhumane. THAT is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what American values are. Does the government have the right to waterboard anyone they want? Because if so then it sounds awful lot like a dictatorship.
@2010GOP You are very correct! All torture is intended to inflict physical pain in order to bring a psychological breaking. Thats completely true. And its completely against the morals American people hold. You wont allow 2 gay men to get married but youre willing to torture a possibly innocent person for useless info? Seems very hypocritical. "Reality" pertains to what is real and true. Truth is we are torturing them. We are suppose to be above that. And they arent torturing my mom. Shes dead
@UncontestedTruth: Why do you call it "useless" when it led to the location of Bin Laden? One form of interrogation to break someone is no better than the next.
In America, we also hold true to "innocent until proven guilty". Strange how that doesn't apply on the battlefield, or when we launch drone attacks, huh?
@2010GOP Whether it played a role in catching Bin Laden has not been confirmed and I reserve to form an opinion until confirmation is given. And torture is torture. Waterboard, breaking bones, cutting all of it is disgusting. and again about the battlefield? WAR IS WAR. There is a profound difference between making a strategic decision that kills and torturing someone. You cant NOT realize that.
@UncontestedTruth I am afraid that for people like 2010GOP the terrorists have won. Such people have allowed themselves to become what the accuse others of: immoral, irrational people who allow themselves to react on base raw instincy and emotion.
@UncontestedTruth: It hasn't been confirmed that interrogation caught Bin Laden? Obama's CIA Director, Leon Panetta, is lying?
“We had multiple series of sources that provided information … clearly some of it came from detainees.. they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta simply said “that’s correct.”
@2010GOP Did you ever wonder how terrorists planned to destroy America? Maybe they dont want to destroy it physically themselves but rather have us degrade ourselves further and further to the point of no return. Maybe a steppingstone to this process was the allowance of torture. By torturing we are no better than the terrorists for one of the psychological aspects of torture is the terror of more pain and suffering.
@2010GOP You should pick up a history book about US foreign policy over the past 60 years or so. People don't like it when outsiders meddle in the affairs of their country. You are likely one of those who complain about Iran but refuse to aknowledge that Iran was once a democracy until instigated a CIA back coup to overthrow and put the tyrannical shah back in power. People like you never learn from history - just keep doing the same failed things over and over.
@2010GOP The Barbary Wars had nothing to do with religion, it was about piracy. You think those were the only pirates in the history of the world. Try reading Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli - it's rather telling.
@xexixk: You're arguing with the wrong person --- I'm way smarter than you.
Learn who Mussulmen were. And yes, our "government" doesn't have laws that citizens must be a Christian -- nor do we go to war w/another nation simply for being non-Christian.
@2010GOP Sorry but conflating historical events from over 200 years ago that were about piracy with modern day events, ignorance of history and ignoring that history that doesn't fit your ideological agenda does not equal intelligence - arrogance perhaps but certainly not intelligence.
This right-wing nutcase actually thinks he's "way smarter"n that you! Holy Mother of God I can't stop laughing at this Fox induced brain death excuse for a human. The GOP would push us back 100 years on every issue!
Forget the Geneva Convention, the end justifies the means!!!! They've kept the KKK alive and well, homophobia & anti-female mentality, repeal all advances - health care reform, DADT, the EPA, banking reform, etc. Next women & blacks once again "Property"?
Actually I should have said 150 yrs as the neocons would have us go back to the time they hold in reverence. But the point is - the United States has been a world leader precisely because of the fact we hold to a higher standard than "torture" which includes waterboarding. We lost our status and the respect of the world during 8 yrs of Bush policy. Cheney, aka Dr. Strangelove, tarnished our image; Obama is restoring it to our former luster.
8 yrs of Bush Sr, 8 yrs of Bush Jr. were a serious lack of good presidential leadership and we saw the results. We now have strong leadership they can't spin. It has been their platform Obama is "soft on terror. He's naive. He doesn't understand the war on terror ( the gentle view). The Taliban Teabaggers say "he hangs out with terrorists", he "wants the terrorists to win", he's muslim, part of the muslim "Caliphate Conspiracy" to take over the world. Now what cat, now what?
@2010GOP Do you also scream about the Salem Witchcraft Trials and claim that has anything to do with modern times or events? When a person in the US kills an abortion provider claiming to be acting on the will of god do you conflate that with historical events as well?
@2010GOP Im a silly child? You insult instead of referring to my points? You refer to radical islam instead of staying on the topic of torture? It is either you have ADD and cant stay focused or it is that youre basically saying "Youre right and I cant argue because what you say is true." So you just admitted you lost the debate.
@UncontestedTruth There has been no country in history that used such methods that did not at some point eventually use them against their own citizens. They always start with a group that is designated as the "threat" or the "other" but eventually it is used against their own citizens.
@UncontestedTruth: Oh yea ~ silly me. I forgot that waterboarding caused radical Muslims to crash planes into buildings killing over 3,000 innocent people. Oh wait....
@2010GOP Quit being idiotic. I never said there arent evil people. I never said waterboarding caused specific events. I never said there wont be people who hate America. Im saying the US shouldnt use terror. We are better than those who killed those innnocents. How are we any better if we cause people to suffer? So would you STAY ON TOPIC because when you digress you bring irrelevant things into play that I neither said nor elluded to and it makes yourself seem moronic.
@2010GOP And by torturing them arent we affecting " someone's mother, father, brother, sister, child, etc"? That gives them more fuel to hate us. Negative actions bring about negative effects. Anger begets anger. Hatred begets hatred. Injustice begets injustice.
@2010GOP Never said we should win over radicals. But by doing these horrible things (torture) we make ourselves seem like the bad guys and appear to be persecuting people from the Middle East which gives the radicals more recruiting power. We dont need to give them flowers but we dont need to give them more young people to destroy (both figuratively and literally). THAT is the one way to ensure this war continues in a vicious circle of never ending conflict.
@2010GOP How are you bursting my bubble? You just made a completely irrelevant comment that pertained to nothing that was said. I know interrogation has been around for a long time. Same for torture. Doesnt make it right and doesnt mean America should use it (the torture not the interrogation).
@UncontestedTruth I really wish he would do as some journalists did and have himself waterboarded then he can tell us what he thinks. He is likely to cowardly. /watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
@2010GOP Interrogation and torture are two different things. My local police department may interrogate a person but if they torture a person well they would be in deep trouble.
@2010GOP You are clueless. You said interrogation not enhanced interrgation which is just a euphemism for torture. We prosecuted people for doing that in Vietnam. We didn't torture anyone during WW II but managed to collect a massive amount of intelligence information.
@xexixk: Throughout this thread, I have referred to "enhanced interrogation". How is that not obvious when I'm speaking of methods used to break someone down?
@2010GOP The fact that you describe waterboarding as "having water splashed in your face" shows you know nothing about what it is or are inntionally being misleading about it.
How does one fight an idea with fighter jets and m4 carbines? Ideologies can't be destroyed with guns what an idiot this republican is.
thesparitan 9 months ago
@thesparitan if you kill everyone on the other side, the ideologie dies...just sayin
DaytonaRoadster 8 months ago
@DaytonaRoadster That might be true, but it is impractical and that was the point. Even if you were somehow able to kill all the people that sympathize or strongly believe in a idea doesn't mean it is dead, maybe functionally dead but it still exists.
You argument might be valid but its asinine if we take into account ethics, moral objections and sheer impracticality of such an undertaking.
thesparitan 8 months ago
@austinnn, Nuclear fallout is just that, fallout.
Fallout is just radioactive dust particles because the dust that gets sucked up into the mushroom allows the nuclei to bind with dirt.
If a nuke goes off and you're out of range of the heat and blast (so you survive), just head opposite the direction that the wind is blowing and stay away from ground zero for at least one month.
1stLtDavis 9 months ago
Is this guy from USA or Turkey.. It's confusing when you have the background with an American flag and the name pops up as "the young Turks".
ihatemsft 9 months ago
Comment removed
ihatemsft 9 months ago
and nither will you all both side lie
pugggly12000 9 months ago
Trent Franks has been an unwavering supporter of former Republican House Majority Leader Tom Delay. Tom Delay resigned from his seat in congress after being indicted for his possible connections to the Jack Abramoff scandals.
Come on , journos. Dig.
beesleeper 9 months ago
The GOP has said that they would rather see American fail then see Obama succeed. Which means that they would have rather seen our soldiers be killed in action then actually complete their mission. - the right wing is shameless
Dahgrostabphri 9 months ago
I don't know who that guy's trying to convince, the sheeple or himself... Conservatives are funny in how they completely disregard facts & logic, but sometimes it's just sad. This is one of those times.
MyTemporaryAccount88 9 months ago
Why this guy is constantly trying to misguide his audience ???
How the hell he understood that this republican was criticizing Obama for getting bin Laden ????
Why he always has to twist the facts ?
This rep. guy said he's afraid that Obama will exploit this event to do nothing about the major threats.
The key point and major threat (not only for the US) are iranian nuclear capabilities, and WHY Obama does nothing to eliminate it ???
To do that, just one airstrike is needed. Think about it.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes yes i can think about it, and nuking a country is morally wrong in every conceivable aspect.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084
Nuking a country? What nuking a country?
Several tomahawk missiles on the nuclear facilities would be "morally wrong in every conceivable aspect" ??
Are you Ahmadinejad's nephew ?
When iranian insane regime starts to blackmail the rest of the world, then you will tell them "you can't do that it's morally wrong in every conceivable aspect" ? Now that is relief.
We can sleep peacefully as long as you're on guard.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes we can't sleep peacefully as long as you're on offense. We can't just attack a country because they posses nuclear weaponry, potentially killing millions of innocents.
I mean, are you insane, you would risk nuclear war? They don't have own icbm missles, the only way they could nuke us is if they smuggled one in, attacking them would only encourage them to do so....
Our world image is shitty enough already.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084
Why you're refusing to leave the world of imagination?
What millions of innocents you're talking about? I'm talking about destroying nuclear facilities by one efficient attack, like Israel did with Iraqi nuclear complex back in 80's.
Following your splendid logic soon will be nuclear weapons in the hands of every deranged moron in the world. A wonderful world. But then you will be in the mouse hole and leave others to solve that little issue.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes ...and start a world war with Russia. Real smart dumbass.
hunkgod 9 months ago
@hunkgod
World war with Russia? What world war with Russia?
If Obama destroys iranian nuclear facilities it would make Russia to start a world war? lol
Now let me ask you, have you ever done an intelligence test? What results have you scored?
Russia is afraid of iranian nuclear weapons even more than US and Europe.
Thats the reason why they supported all of the sanctions on Iran.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes Why the fuck do you think the Israelis have not done it yet shit for brains? It is a RUSSIAN reactor, manned by RUSSIAN atomic scientist and engineers. You think they will be too happy when a dumb-ass like you drops a bunker buster on it? It is just that kind of thing that escalates tensions that lead to stand offs and war. Tell me did the Americans do shit to stop the Russians invading Georgia, an American ally? You think America scares them or they would not retaliate in some way?
hunkgod 9 months ago 3
@hunkgod Hi Mr. "fuckshit".
I wouldn't say your intelligence test went well, right?
Israel can't do that without refueling it's planes over Iraq (it has no such capabilities), nor would Obama allow it, let alone help it.
Do you think Israelis are such cowards like you ?
Iranian nuke program is the major threat to the US and to the rest of the world.
If all from western world would be weak minded and impressed with russia like you are, it'd be finished with the free world as we know it now.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes FUCK SHIT ASS COCK WANKER oops sorry yeah thats my Tourettes..Yes the Zionist are cowards but let us leave that for another day. Has North Korea gone crazy and nuked the world? Has Pakistan? What the fuck makes you think Iran would. Your Fox news raped brain is very shallow. The U.S. can not afford to get in conflict with Russia or anyone else. And FYI Israeli has armed drones that can reach Iran, plus you don't think the U.S. would let them refuel off shore somewhere? Or in Saudi?
hunkgod 9 months ago
@hunkgod Eh poor man, that's really a problem, but don't give up, today's medicine makes miracles.
Yes i know, it's just about 6 million cowards fighting successfully 260 million for 60 years.
Have you heard someone saying Pakistan & NK are safe countries ?
Is it better for global security to have 2 threats or 12.
Why not every country on earth and every crazy dictator have their nukes?
It'd be a wonderful world, and hunkgod aka fuckshit personally would guarantee there will be no acid rains.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes Have you ever been to Israel and the Palestinian territories? I have. If you saw what I saw you would not hold Israel in such high regard. Anyway, you have to remember the U.S. is pissing on Iran's door step right now, backed Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war, installed a puppet dictator into Iran. I hate Ahmadinejad as much as anyone but Americans do not have the right to tell Iran what they can or cannot have. If US forces were not in the area there would be no threat to the US.
hunkgod 9 months ago
@hunkgod U.S. is NOT pissing on Iran's door step, US wants to go out of there as soon as possible, but quite the contrary, Iran is pissing not just on Iraq's door step but on Iraq.
Iran wants to be a leader of the whole muslim world, and that's why it needs nuke, to wipe Israel off the map, take control over arab countries and to lead a global conquest for its religion.
Yes, everyone has right to tell and force Iran what they can or cannot have if it poses a huge threat as it is.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes ...problem is, you are one of those who gives a fuck what happens to Israel and I do not. Israel is the single biggest foreign policy blunder in US-Anglo history. From a national security standpoint, backing them bring more heat on America thing else it does with its crappy foreign policy choices. Israel knows it has American politicians by the balls because of jewish votes in America.Israel answers to no one and just leeches money of the American taxpayer.Talk about cutting the budget?
hunkgod 9 months ago
@hunkgod
Cut the long (hypocritical) story short, does Israel have right to exist or not?
aaxxes 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hunkgod
Why not every country on earth and every crazy dictator have their nukes?
aaxxes 9 months ago
@hunkgod
"FYI Israeli has armed drones that can reach Iran" lol
Drones destroying nuclear bunkers :) lol
-"you don't think the U.S. would let them refuel off shore somewhere? "
I don't think.
v v v(dt)haaretz(dt)c*o*m(slash)news(slash)brzezinski-u-s-should-forcibly-stop-iaf-flying-over-iraq-to-reach-iran-1.7531
Fox news?
aaxxes 9 months ago
Are there more intelligent objections like these of Andy180084 & hunkgod ?
aaxxes 9 months ago
I'm sorry, but this guy is really misguided if he thinks that the terrorists are not going to retaliate... I mean seriously, yeah Obama gave Bush credit. Why wouldn't he have? I mean yes you may not have liked him but guess what. HE was the one who started the man hunt for Osama anyways... So yes a little credit does go to him. And about the politicizing the death of Osama, I guess we will have to wait until Elections on November 6, 2012 to find out for sure how far Obama is going to take this.
AnthonySaylor2332 9 months ago
even if u.s. would cut 80% of it's military it would be still enough to "keep you safe"
Darusdei 9 months ago 5
@Darusdei
I disagree. If we're going to continue as the world's biggest asshole, we need our bloated military. Without it, the rest of the world would band together and kick our asses to shut us up.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674
"...the rest of the world would band together and kick our asses to shut us up."
Bravoo, very very clever..
By the rest of the world you mean Khamenei, Ahmadi, Hamas, Hezbollah, Chavez, Kim Jong.... right?
Some world..
You know, your stance has a name, it's Chamberlain's policy.
Can i guess, a Ron Paul's voter?
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes There is a difference between sitting back and appeasing a world super power bent on invading an entire continent of neutral countries, and forming our own imperialist nation and invading foreign countries in a losing war of attrition.
you know, your stance has a name too, its known as neoconservatism.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084 lol
"invading an entire continent of neutral countries"
what continent? the entire Asia ? LOL
have you possibly seen the celebration on the baghdad streets when us troops entered ?
and in what sense "neutral" countries ?
do you consider taleban ruled afghanistan a "neutral" country ?
do you think not only terrorist's training camps but also treatment of afghani people by taleban was their internal matters?
this makes me slightly sick.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes ..and who give a shit about what someone from Norway has to say? What influence dose your pathetic little ball sack of a nation have on anything? I think you should know your place. The Russians should have rolled over your asses during the Soviet expansion. Obviously there was nothing of value for them to take.
hunkgod 9 months ago
@hunkgod If you're so impressed with Russians, why don't you get a job in some Moscow brothel. That way you could relax terrifying Russians, and thereby do something for the world's peace.
Btw, have you considered doing something about your Tourette's syndrome ?
aaxxes 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Andy180084
"your stance has a name too, its known as neoconservatism"
LOL
do you at all know the meaning of the word "conservative" ?
what is "conservative" in what i said?
when someone doesn't like deranged people having weapons, it's called "conservative" ?
then it turns out that you are a "liberal"..
people like you turned the term "liberal" into a bad word..
to be liberal doesn't mean to be Chamberlain !
i am a liberal.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
I was joking. I guess you missed the subtle hints. For example, a real supporter of our bloated military would likely not call it "bloated".
By the way, not all of the world outside of the U.S. and its buddies is third-world. And the other advanced nations don't like us as much as you might think. But even third-world nations could add to a fight if they really wanted to. Anyway, I'm not interested into starting some sort of debate on this, since I was just joking to begin with.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674 "advanced nations" like China, where people get 11y prison for nothing?
Or "advanced nations" like Russia where opposition is sort of forbidden, journalists are killed by gov., and where they keep a man in prison for 8 + 6 years for financial support of the opposition ?
The world is not a hippie field of flowers. If you want to keep your freedom you must fight for it all the time.
If you're afraid of "other advanced nations" start adapting to their "way of life", you'll need it.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
How do you translate "Cut down our bloated military to a realistic size" to "Become pacifist"? If you're going to twist my words so blatantly, there's no point trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674 An intelligent conversation ??
Sorry, but you're just too confused for an intelligent conversation.
1) You told ME: "a real supporter of our bloated military would likely not call it "bloated" " (???) wtf
2) Why did you quote "Become pacifist"? Have i used the word "pacifist"?
3) You said: " other advanced nations don't like us .. even third-world nations could add to a fight ..if we continue to be the world's biggest asshole .. they finally have enough and decide to kick our asses."
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
You seriously don't get it? I know exactly what I mean
"Bloated" is a negative term. Someone who supports a huge military is not likely to use the term, and I used it as part of my satire. Does this make sense to you?
"If you want to keep your freedom you must fight for it all the time." Is this referring to pacifism or not? If not, it's a strange choice of words.
Did you not understand the last part? It was half-joking, based on the fact that many consider Americans to be assholes
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674 I of course know where is your confusion, but i left it up to you to give some explanation. :)
For some inexplicable reason you think that i understood your post @Darusdei "If we're going to continue as the world's biggest asshole, we need our bloated military" - literally. lol
What made you think so, it's beyond me.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@Anon11674 As for your quote use, one puts an expression related to interlocutor's stance in quotes, exclusively if interlocutor used the exact expression or word, right?
As we know i didn't use the word pacifism, since i think your stances have nothing to do with pacifism.
The proper word is, as i've already said, masochism.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@Anon11674
So your ingenious solution is "Cut down our bloated military"...
Then nobody wants to hurt you and you'll live in peace & prosperity for the next 100 years.
Your parents never told you that Santa Claus doesn't exist, right ?
It's not even "pacifism", it's masochism.
And please finally, where is the subtle joke i missed ?
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
Cutting a bloated military down to a reasonable size = I think we have no enemies? Where's the connection? You've been blatantly straw-manning me this entire time. The sad part is, I now think you have no clue you're doing it.
My entire first post was a joke, though with some truth in it, you sorry twit. If you can't figure that out, you're even worse than I thought. And the hints were subtle, I said, not the joke.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674 "Cutting a bloated military down to a reasonable size = I think we have no enemies? "
My god you're losing yourself, this equation is from me ?? lol
Try to concentrate. You said these hate us, those hate us, they will kick our asses, save our souls...
So what i said is that u're on your knees ready for some dishonest job, not thinking u have no enemies.
And what would be the reasonable size? Such that would be preventing US military to intervene abroad, right? Greetings to u from IRI.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
"Then nobody wants to hurt you and you'll live in peace & prosperity for the next 100 years."
Are you not aware of what you're posting?
I've been looking at your comments. You talk shit like this to everyone who disagrees with you. Either you're mentally deficient and you think everyone else is an idiot, or you're just trolling. Either way, I've wasted my time too long with your dumb shit. You wouldn't even be the fun kind of troll to pick at.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674
I have to admit i understand you completely. When someone fails to provide any argument for their discussion (apart from 'they consider us assholes' and 'they will kick our asses') then the best thing he can do is to withdraw from the debate.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@Anon11674
Why did you expect that you have had a special treatment by me ?
Yes i am aware, and so do you. This quote of mine is exactly what you're hoping for, as it's obvious that you'd like to appease those who want to kick your ass, by cutting down your "bloated" military, in order for them to desist from kicking your ass.
A real ostrich-like attitude.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@Anon11674
In this little conversation you demonstrated an amusing amount of confusion (you were explaining to me your "hidden half-joke" and "subtile" hints in several posts, eventhough i didn't give you any reason for it :), a misuse of quotes, an inability to answer my questions (like what does "reasonable size" mean) and ability to answer me what i didn't say at all (like that made up equation).
So what about my time??
aaxxes 9 months ago
@Anon11674
""many consider Americans to be assholes""
You haven't got into the merits of this claims, nor you're at all interested in it, but you're just eager to appease them by cutting your "bloated" military down..
You are extremely naive if you think it would satisfy them.
Those dictatorships have their own goals and agendas to dominate over others, so just appease them and say goodbye to freedom.
Actually, you are exactly what they need, and what they're hoping for.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
One last thing, I'm curious about something: Why is someone from Norway angrily defending America's arrogance and over-sized military?
I'm not interested in hearing anything from you but an answer to this, so I won't respond to anything else.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674
To conclude, there have always been Churchills and Chamberlains.
You are a small chamberlain, anytime ready to meet expectations and requirements of all deranged dictators accross the world, who would threaten you with kicking your ass.
You wanna-be liberals, wanna-be smart, actually just impotent spineless appeasers, gave liberalism a very bad name.
And your ridiculous high-school question just shows the coordinates of your mind.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
You haven't given a rational answer to my question, so kindly fuck off. I'm not going to rise to your attempts to assign positions to me that I don't hold and never stated.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674
You're angry for i haven't given a "rational"(sic) answer to your question, why someone from Norway is defending America, so that i can kindly fuck off ?
Lough Out Loud :D
I'm NOT assigning anything, i'm quoting your words. Period.
aaxxes 9 months ago
@aaxxes
By the way, how is my stance one of appeasement? My satirical stance was that if we continue to be the world's biggest asshole, we need a big enough military to hold off the world when they finally have enough and decide to kick our asses.
Anon11674 9 months ago
@Anon11674 Why "asshole" ?? Because of taking down a terrorist regime that was threatening your country and oppressing its own people ?
Some world's dictators (and by propaganda poisoned people) say "you are assholes" and you repeat it "we are assholes" ??
"They" will try to kick ur ass either way, that's how the world works. So will be better to have big enough military than to not have it (or else keep it (your ass) ready for them).
No, i didn't find those subtle satirical hints in ur posts.
aaxxes 9 months ago
Waiting for him to be specific...
terminaldeity 9 months ago
the president can not protect us he is on the black side and on the side of the people who want to destroy us thjnk about it do you feel good with this bum in charge
TheMrdipper 9 months ago
@TheMrdipper The words of the a very intelligent and informed conservative.
Your party is destroying itself.
Xrenga 9 months ago
@jpav0923 No I don't think you care of his condiment choice but I do enjoy pointing out the naivety of your use of such trivial matter. Cloward piven is suppose to worsen economic situations. Unemployment is going down. Weird. And we were already off the damn cliff before Obama even took office. I love that the catch phrase for every person who hates Obama is "WAKE UP!" you guys are brainwashed to repeat the same talking points and don't even know it
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
Remember...9-11 was on the GOP's watch!
hajqbvii 9 months ago
@hajqbvii well actually it was more on clintons watch seeing as bush *just* got into office when 9/11 happened, thats like when the republicans blame obama for the recession. In reality 9/11 was noones fault, other than the terrorists that did it (not that im defending bush or nething).
Andy180084 9 months ago
@hajqbvii 9/11 was going to occur regardless of gop or democrat happenstance.
cpufightclub 9 months ago
rofl... if u turn on the subtitles it says some really funny things, like president all bomb up xD
MiniDonbeE 9 months ago
well obama killed osama :))))))) u mad republican?
MiniDonbeE 9 months ago
"If they can criticize president Obama for killing Bin Laden, they can criticize him for anything." - Cenk Uygur xD
MostCommonName1 9 months ago
Trent Franks is a bigoted moron. Arizona has become the new Mississippi.
ginesdepasamonte 9 months ago
They will attack Obama regardless of what he does. The fact that he got it right and is getting credit is driving the Republicans crazy!
28stads 9 months ago
@28stads: No, stupidity is what drives Republicans crazy.
Gitmo + interrogating detainees = discovery of Bin Laden's location.
Obama/Democrats were against both of those.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Dude, torture doesn't work. Look into any study that is done regarding these issues. Moreover, you need to decide what kind of country you want to live in: the kind that will take away rights and torture, or the kind that comports itself in a somewhat civilized manner. Gitmo had nothing to do with finding Osama. How would people in Gitmo for the past 7 years have any useful information regarding that; sorry, but your explanation doesn't add up.
28stads 9 months ago
@28stads: LOL. YES, Gitmo & interrogation is what led to Bin Laden. Go argue w/the military.
abcnews . go . com / Blotter / khalid-sheikh-muhammad-capture-osama-bin-laden-courier / story?id=13506413
And I want to live in a country w/some common fk'ing sense. Terrorists don't have "rights", moron. Not even under the Geneva Convention. They're not soldiers of their country.
If you're mama's throat was about to be slit, you'd care about water in someone's face? Use your damn head
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Funny that most military and government people - even some from Bush's administration - disagree with you. If we torture then we have no grounds or right to complain when and if a US citizen is tortured by a foreign government.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: WTF are you talking about? Enhanced interrogation is how we got Bin Laden. "Most people" in the military includes me. "Most" think you're a pussy & fk'd in the head, as is your hero
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Yeah and its funny how many people from the government have said and continue to say that your claim is flat out wrong.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk:
Yep ~ let's shoot people between the eyes, but don't throw water in their face .... that's too brutal.
Damn, you're a fk'ing idiot. We're talking about terrorists, not soldiers of another country you dumb motherfk'r
Go plant a flower garden or practice ballet. That's more your speed, pussy
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Sorry your are the idiot. Torture doesn't work. Give someone an hour with you and a water board and they will have you confessing to anyting. You will tell them whatever they want to hear in order stop it regardless if it's true or not. Been said over and over by many in the military and government they received little information of any use. You are the fucking idiot if you do not realize that if a US citizen is tortured by a foreign government we now have no grounds to complain.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk Wrote: "Sorry your are the idiot" <--- You may want to learn how to spell prior to calling other people "idiots". LMAO.
Furthermore dummy, it was precisely interrogation that led us to the courier of bin Laden & ultimately to bin Laden's whereabouts.
From ABC News: abcnews . go . com / Blotter / khalid-sheikh-muhammad-capture-osama-bin-laden-courier / story?id=13506413
A terrorist is not the same as a uniformed soldier of a foreign country, bird-brain
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Pointing out typos doesn't make you look intelligent, just shows what you must resort to because of your weak arguments. The fact one is not a soldier doesn't mean they can be treated in whatever manner you wish to treat them. You keep quoting one news article over and over, that has been dismissed by government officials.
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP What you don't get b/c you are too damn stupid is that now if a US citizen - including you - is ever tortured by a foreign gov then we have no right to complain. Notice I said citizen not soldier. You ignore how many of those people held in gitmo never should have been there in the first place, how many were simply turned in for cash rewards by Afghanis for the cash and also as revenge for personal/family disputes. Get out of your mother's basement and do some reading.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: If I was a fk'ing terrorist, they'd do more than throw water in my face, you fk'd up moron. I can quote many more ---- including Obama Admin officials.
From Leon Panetta: "We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
Let that sink in, fk'tard
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP I love how hysterical you become the more you go one. Your love of profanities (which I admit I replied in kind with since you so fond of them) doesn't help you either. The Khmer Rouge and the Spanish Inquisition both also used water boarding. Next thing you will defend them as well.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk:
When asked by NBC's Brian Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta said “that’s correct.”
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP That news article says the information came out of gitmo - most government officials deny water boarding has ever taken place at gitmo. By the way Donald Rumsfeld says the same. Rumsfeld also has said that the information that led to bin Laden was obtained through normal interrogation methods and that water boarding had nothing to do with it.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: RETARD. Try "waterboarding" and "Khalid Sheik Mohammed".
Somehow, it doesn't penetrate into your one brain cell that the info came from Leon Panetta.
Face it, idiot. You're WRONG ..... and the Obama Admin does & will look like the hypocritical jackasses they are.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Yeah and plenty of government sources - including from the Bush administration such as Rumsfeld of all people - have said that his waterboarding had nothing to to with it. There are also a number o insiders who were involved with that who have come forward over the years and said that the vast majority of the 'info' they obtained from him was useless and appeared to be fabricated. You are rather selective in what you choose to believe or not to believe.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: WOW ~ you really are a retard.
In THIS CASE ... the one resulting in locating Osama Bin Laden ... was compliments of waterboarding Khalid Shiek Mohammed, a Gitmo detainee, per Obama's CIA Director, Leon Panetta.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Yeah and you ignore the opinion of those from the government who contridict that. You also ignore Panetta when he said that it was an open question as to whether such information could be obtained by other means, you ignore Panetta past testimony that water boarding was torture and wrong. Sorry you are the one living in a simplistic bland and white bubble.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: LOL
Leon Panetta:
"We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees and used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta simply said “that’s correct.”
Phew! The Obama Admin seems so outraged on "how" they got Bin Laden, huh?
Dumbass
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Dumbass would be the one like you who keeps referring to one news article and one person over and over and over and ignoring all others.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: I've referred to ABC News & NBC News .... which others would you like, dumbass?
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Your personal insults are great! Really shows the weakness of your argument lol. I don't care what 3 sources you site its the same story, same one person and ignoring all others. What institution of higher learning did you learn your debating skills as? Harvard? Princeton? Yale? Brown? As Pat Buchanan once said "Personal insults are the last resorted of an exhausted mind." I admit I resorted to a few too, but only because you love them so much.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Oh yes ~ ABC News is lying ...... NBC News is lying ... the Associated Press is lying. We should trust The Young Turks, that's who! LMAO.
Besides idiot, you can hear Panetta for yourself right here on YouTube if you actually cared to learn of facts.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP I didn't say they were lying. I said you were esentially relying on what is the same article quoting the same person instead of looking at a variety of sources and government officials - past and present. I've listened to Panetta. I've also listend to Rumsfeld and others. Something else that is funny is you ignore and forgive Bush for not going after bin Laden. You must have forgotten that coment of his that he didn't know where ben laden was and it wasn't a priority for him.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Damn you're dense.
Rumsfeld obviously couldn't know the final outcome, unlike the CURRENT CIA Director, Panetta. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
And I know precisely what Bush's comment was. It was clearly over your head, flipped & twisted by the media for you Libtards to cling to. If Bin Laden's followers & training camps are destroyed, Bin Laden himself is less of a threat, as are his followers. Idiots can't grasp that getting Bin Laden was mostly symbolic.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP yes he could of. Multiple times before Iraq a ground invasion failed in other countries, why would it be any different?
Point is, political targets can be taken out with spec ops instead of multi trillion dollar wars. I'm glad the osama thing came up, i've been saying do that for years.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084: Osama would have never been found if not for interrogating detainees at Gitmo. Those terrorists didn't just walk into Gitmo --- it took military action to capture them in the first place.
2010GOP 9 months ago
Comment removed
Andy180084 9 months ago
@2010GOP funny the SAS, the KSK, and the French special forces are widely considered the greatest special forces teams in the world, and yet they did not invade a country (in fact no gitmo equivalent either so no international treaty violations too). Keep Gitmo, torture essential insurgents, and get the information, no invasion needed.
and wait a second, are you suggesting we will find useful terrorists in IRAQ??? Haha, that failed war was caused by the deception of a detained terrorist.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@2010GOP We're all aware of the symbolic nature of killing bin Laden at this point. There was nothing difficult to grasp about Bush's comment. He was more focused on his military misadventure in Iraq- a country that never attacked us and was of no threat to us -- which took our focus and attention off of Afghanistan. The thick one would be you.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk:
a) Go argue w/Democrats who insisted Saddam was a threat & wanted action over WMDs even before Bush was in office --- and then yelled about it even louder after 9/11.
b) Go argue with the Pentagon & Dept of Defense who has evidence that Saddam was harboring & financially supporting various Al-Qaeda groups operations, so of who were tied to Bin Laden.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP All of those lies for going into Iraq have been dismissed. Go read the Downing Street memos to start with. the al-qaeda connection has be thoroughly disproven - in fact they would have been a threat to Hussein's secular regime.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Perhaps you didn't actually read or comprehend my comment.
Democrats, before Bush was in office, were urging for military action against Saddam over WMDs --- and again after 9/11.
The Downing Street memos? LMAO! Debunked long ago. Lay off the Richard Maddow -- it's making you stupid.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP I fully understand your comment. You assume if I criticise a person from one party that means I blindly follow and excuse the other. Sorry to inform you that you are wrong. I don't really care for either party. No the memos have never been "debunked" - provide the evidence. People screaming, no it's not true it's not true is not evidence. The gov - including Bush era officials - admit WMD never existed.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: It's obvious that you're a MSNBC watcher. I don't believe anyone else could be so insanely brainwashed & misinformed.
Downing Street memo? One of many: slate . com / id / 2121212 /
3rd time: Democrats were urging for action against Saddam over WMDs even BEFORE Bush was in office.
Intel stated there were WMDs. Obama's "economic intel" said that if we passed the stimulus, 3 million private sector jobs would be created. Was his intel wrong or was he lying?
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP And you ignore all of the current evidence showing what intelligence was not accurate and what was faked. You also ignore they now admit the WMD did not exist. Iraq was no threat to the US - if Hussein attacked the US we could have more than defended ourselves - and he knew that. You seem to be addicted to war and death.
xexixk 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@xexixk: LOL. The intelligence was not "faked". Please enlighten the world on what "Bush" had to do w/Intel from UNSCOM, UNMOVIC & foreign.
Further, it's strange how you give a pass to Democrats who said Saddam had WMDs ... again .... right BEFORE Bush was in office. Were they "lying"?
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Amazing that you folks who scream about fiscal responsiblity have no problem not only spending god knows how many billions but borrowing it - on a war that was not needed.
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP Basic fact of life: We can't go trooping around the world remaking every corner of it as we wish the world were. Anyone who things so is ignorant of history, and at best highly naive.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk I see youre struggling to expose truth in a sea of lies. Admirable.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth It's like watching a train wreck isn't it?
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Let's see.....
A terrorists' cock is being shoved down your mother's throat .... her legs being forced open & repeatedly raped ... and the next day they're going to saw her head off with a dull blade.
And you'd tell investigators to not waterboard one of the terrorist's buddies who was captured in order to learn of your mother's whereabouts. Yea, right, fk'tard
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Why don't you go get waterboarded yourself like some journalists have - then you can come to an informed opinion about it. I would imagine you are too cowardly. You are the pussy coward as well, pussies and cowards like you always base the opinions on raw emotion not reasons and facts. It takes no courage to be an ignorant nut case.
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP You cant use personal examples because they arent torturing our mothers. That argument is irrelevant and weak. And I pray to whatever higher being exists that you can tell the difference between war and torture. Shooting someone is one thing but extending their pain and suffering is inhumane. THAT is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what American values are. Does the government have the right to waterboard anyone they want? Because if so then it sounds awful lot like a dictatorship.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: Waterboarding is psychological just as other interrogation methods are
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Christopher HItchens said otherwise after he was waterboarded and he is a big supporter of the wars.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Special Ops Navy Seals are waterboarded during training ---- they say otherwise & are typically big supporters of wars.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP And I've heard other military people - current and ex-military - disagree with you. Go try it yourself and then give us your opinion.
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP You are very correct! All torture is intended to inflict physical pain in order to bring a psychological breaking. Thats completely true. And its completely against the morals American people hold. You wont allow 2 gay men to get married but youre willing to torture a possibly innocent person for useless info? Seems very hypocritical. "Reality" pertains to what is real and true. Truth is we are torturing them. We are suppose to be above that. And they arent torturing my mom. Shes dead
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth We prosecuted service members in Vietnam who waterboarded people.
xexixk 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: Why do you call it "useless" when it led to the location of Bin Laden? One form of interrogation to break someone is no better than the next.
In America, we also hold true to "innocent until proven guilty". Strange how that doesn't apply on the battlefield, or when we launch drone attacks, huh?
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Whether it played a role in catching Bin Laden has not been confirmed and I reserve to form an opinion until confirmation is given. And torture is torture. Waterboard, breaking bones, cutting all of it is disgusting. and again about the battlefield? WAR IS WAR. There is a profound difference between making a strategic decision that kills and torturing someone. You cant NOT realize that.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth I am afraid that for people like 2010GOP the terrorists have won. Such people have allowed themselves to become what the accuse others of: immoral, irrational people who allow themselves to react on base raw instincy and emotion.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk Your comment has just given me a great point! Youre a genius! I cant believe i didnt think of this before
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: It hasn't been confirmed that interrogation caught Bin Laden? Obama's CIA Director, Leon Panetta, is lying?
“We had multiple series of sources that provided information … clearly some of it came from detainees.. they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.
When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta simply said “that’s correct.”
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Did you ever wonder how terrorists planned to destroy America? Maybe they dont want to destroy it physically themselves but rather have us degrade ourselves further and further to the point of no return. Maybe a steppingstone to this process was the allowance of torture. By torturing we are no better than the terrorists for one of the psychological aspects of torture is the terror of more pain and suffering.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: You're nothing but a silly little child. Go pick up a damn history book for god's sake. Radical Islam is nothing new, pip-squeak
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP You should pick up a history book about US foreign policy over the past 60 years or so. People don't like it when outsiders meddle in the affairs of their country. You are likely one of those who complain about Iran but refuse to aknowledge that Iran was once a democracy until instigated a CIA back coup to overthrow and put the tyrannical shah back in power. People like you never learn from history - just keep doing the same failed things over and over.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: 60 years? ROFLMAO!! Try going back all the way to Barbary Wars, sparky
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP The Barbary Wars had nothing to do with religion, it was about piracy. You think those were the only pirates in the history of the world. Try reading Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli - it's rather telling.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: You're arguing with the wrong person --- I'm way smarter than you.
Learn who Mussulmen were. And yes, our "government" doesn't have laws that citizens must be a Christian -- nor do we go to war w/another nation simply for being non-Christian.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Sorry but conflating historical events from over 200 years ago that were about piracy with modern day events, ignorance of history and ignoring that history that doesn't fit your ideological agenda does not equal intelligence - arrogance perhaps but certainly not intelligence.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: As I said, go pick up a history book & study Mussulmen. Once again, you prove you're clueless.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP And you've proven yourself to be clueless time and time again. Go pick up some history books yourself, real ones not propaganda.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk
This right-wing nutcase actually thinks he's "way smarter"n that you! Holy Mother of God I can't stop laughing at this Fox induced brain death excuse for a human. The GOP would push us back 100 years on every issue!
Forget the Geneva Convention, the end justifies the means!!!! They've kept the KKK alive and well, homophobia & anti-female mentality, repeal all advances - health care reform, DADT, the EPA, banking reform, etc. Next women & blacks once again "Property"?
RioDreaming 9 months ago
@RioDreaming Yes it is both frightening and sad isn't it? I don't know if I should cry or laugh.
xexixk 9 months ago
@RioDreaming wait, wait, 50 years, not 100!!! lol
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084
Actually I should have said 150 yrs as the neocons would have us go back to the time they hold in reverence. But the point is - the United States has been a world leader precisely because of the fact we hold to a higher standard than "torture" which includes waterboarding. We lost our status and the respect of the world during 8 yrs of Bush policy. Cheney, aka Dr. Strangelove, tarnished our image; Obama is restoring it to our former luster.
RioDreaming 9 months ago
@RioDreaming yea i'll take obama over bush any day. Still, our country has had a serious lack of good presidents for quite some time now...
Andy180084 9 months ago
@Andy180084
8 yrs of Bush Sr, 8 yrs of Bush Jr. were a serious lack of good presidential leadership and we saw the results. We now have strong leadership they can't spin. It has been their platform Obama is "soft on terror. He's naive. He doesn't understand the war on terror ( the gentle view). The Taliban Teabaggers say "he hangs out with terrorists", he "wants the terrorists to win", he's muslim, part of the muslim "Caliphate Conspiracy" to take over the world. Now what cat, now what?
RioDreaming 9 months ago
@RioDreaming yep, American conservatives are fucking retarded, in fact they're reactionaries.
Andy180084 9 months ago
@2010GOP Do you also scream about the Salem Witchcraft Trials and claim that has anything to do with modern times or events? When a person in the US kills an abortion provider claiming to be acting on the will of god do you conflate that with historical events as well?
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP Im a silly child? You insult instead of referring to my points? You refer to radical islam instead of staying on the topic of torture? It is either you have ADD and cant stay focused or it is that youre basically saying "Youre right and I cant argue because what you say is true." So you just admitted you lost the debate.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth There has been no country in history that used such methods that did not at some point eventually use them against their own citizens. They always start with a group that is designated as the "threat" or the "other" but eventually it is used against their own citizens.
xexixk 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: Oh yea ~ silly me. I forgot that waterboarding caused radical Muslims to crash planes into buildings killing over 3,000 innocent people. Oh wait....
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Quit being idiotic. I never said there arent evil people. I never said waterboarding caused specific events. I never said there wont be people who hate America. Im saying the US shouldnt use terror. We are better than those who killed those innnocents. How are we any better if we cause people to suffer? So would you STAY ON TOPIC because when you digress you bring irrelevant things into play that I neither said nor elluded to and it makes yourself seem moronic.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth So true.
xexixk 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth:
And why not use "personal examples"? That's called "reality".
If terrorists' plans were to bomb a U.S. Govt office, somewhere in the U.S., it will affect someone's mother, father, brother, sister, child, etc
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP And by torturing them arent we affecting " someone's mother, father, brother, sister, child, etc"? That gives them more fuel to hate us. Negative actions bring about negative effects. Anger begets anger. Hatred begets hatred. Injustice begets injustice.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: It takes a lunatic to believe we can play nice & win the hearts of radical Muslims.
The terrorist who tried setting a bomb off in Times Square did so merely because he hated American democracy & wanted to implement Sharia Law.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP Never said we should win over radicals. But by doing these horrible things (torture) we make ourselves seem like the bad guys and appear to be persecuting people from the Middle East which gives the radicals more recruiting power. We dont need to give them flowers but we dont need to give them more young people to destroy (both figuratively and literally). THAT is the one way to ensure this war continues in a vicious circle of never ending conflict.
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth We also have no basis to complain if a US citizen is ever taken into custody by a foreign government and tortured.
xexixk 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth: I hate to burst your little fantasy bubble sweet-pea, but interrogation has existed for as long as the world has.
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP How are you bursting my bubble? You just made a completely irrelevant comment that pertained to nothing that was said. I know interrogation has been around for a long time. Same for torture. Doesnt make it right and doesnt mean America should use it (the torture not the interrogation).
UncontestedTruth 9 months ago
@UncontestedTruth I really wish he would do as some journalists did and have himself waterboarded then he can tell us what he thinks. He is likely to cowardly. /watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
xexixk 9 months ago
@2010GOP Interrogation and torture are two different things. My local police department may interrogate a person but if they torture a person well they would be in deep trouble.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Key word ... "enhanced" interrogation. Methods to break them, be it water-boarding or another "enhanced" method. You're clueless
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP You are clueless. You said interrogation not enhanced interrgation which is just a euphemism for torture. We prosecuted people for doing that in Vietnam. We didn't torture anyone during WW II but managed to collect a massive amount of intelligence information.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: Throughout this thread, I have referred to "enhanced interrogation". How is that not obvious when I'm speaking of methods used to break someone down?
2010GOP 9 months ago
@2010GOP The fact that you describe waterboarding as "having water splashed in your face" shows you know nothing about what it is or are inntionally being misleading about it.
xexixk 9 months ago
@xexixk: As I've said numerous times, the effects of water-boarding are psychological, just as most enhanced interrogation methods are.
Any rational minded person would admit that if their child, mother, or sister was about to h