"Prabhupada said, 'It's hard work to go to hell" " ISKCON

[Nixblicker10]

freemason chess floor? wtf?

[ShaktipatSeer2]

@Nixblicker10 Masons might have picked it up from India, rather then vice versa

[MyWordizBond]

haha, the last 10 seconds is hilarious.

He was the example plus he got the explanation at the same time..wow.

[ahankara]

Excellent video and class. Please lower the music level next time, i can't really hear the class properly.

Jay Prabhupada!

[karamid]

Yeah the music makes this very difficult to listen to.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Yep. Just as I thought.

[Yamaraja]

"what if Christians and/or Muslims are right? Then I guess you're headed to their hell in the afterlife."

Saying that different religions disagree in the minor details does not disprove God's existance.

I doubt very much that small differences in faith would mean that God would toss one religion into hell and spare the other. Religions are all very similar in terms of the main points. Pocket dictionary and full Oxford dictionary are both bonafide Dictionary's.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Yamaraja, I do not use the fact that the popular religions contradict each other on important details (not minor), as any foundation for the non-existence of God. That's a different discussion altogether.

According to the texts of the main religions, God DOES toss people into hell simply for their non-belief in a specific faith. The Quran constantly speaks of the fires of hell that unbelievers will be thrown into , while the Bible makes the same references in both Old and New Testaments.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Dave - Radhashna isn't here, she's probably out ironing some guy's shirts after openly being happy in a sexist, subordinate system that Prabhupada advocated. That being said - you really do need to contain your hate. It's not healthy.

[davegarret]

Oh dear are you having a 'I'm the victim' tantrem?! We'll I'm not falling for it for a second. Your so predictable.

I have sussed you totally. You have done exactly as I predicted. Refuse to acknowledge your blatant duplicity. Instead, play the victim, guilt trip, and more hypocrisy.

Why would I even want to BEGIN a debate with a textbook narcissist?

[Betelgeuse3000]

Dang Dave - You really know how to drag a discussion down to gutter level. I can't understand how this much anger and hate can come firstly, from someone I don't even know, and secondly a self-professed Prabhupada devotee!

Prabhupada showed classic symptoms of being senile in his more recent interviews. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

When you believe in things that do not exist, that makes you delusional. Again, not an insult.

You taking this as malicious is your own problem.

[Yamaraja]

Prabhupada was translating and commenting on Srimad Bhagavatam in his final days while bedridden and very sick. How can you say senile? No doctor anywhere would conclude Prabhupada was ever senile. That is a downright false, unverified statement. And you do contradict yourself constantly

[davegarret]

"Prabhupada showed classic symptoms of being senile in his more recent interviews. That's not an insult, it's an observation."

YOU show classic symptoms of NPD, thats not an insult, its an observation.

Narcisism checklist ALBERT J. BERNSTEIN Ph.D.

THINKS MOST CRITICISMS OF HIM OR HER ARE MOTIVATED BY HATRED AND JEALOUSY.

THIS PERSON SUFFERS FROM A CONGENITAL INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE HIS OR HER OWN MISTAKES.

THIS PERSON OFTEN COMPLAINS OF BEING MISTREATED.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Dave - if you think I'm narcissistic, then that's fine - it's your opinion.  Unlike you, I am not driven by hatred and definitely not by jealousy - so I don't fit into that category by your own definition.

My criticisms are my criticisms - and quite frankly don't care that I'm being mistreated by you. I am a little as to why you're focusing 100% on me, and not the issues I'm discussing. That's kinda creepy.

[davegarret]

I am focusing on you for this reason and this reason only.

I would only consider addressing someone's differences of opinion and engaging in debate if I think them to be able to debate free of any kind of duplicity,hypocrisy and falacious tactics. I have not found that to be the case with you.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Dave - In that case, you've made your point. We're done. Please give it a rest.

[TheRealCognac69]

Prabhupada was also poisoned by one of his disciples dave!

[Betelgeuse3000]

TheRealCognac69 - You don't know if Prabhupada was poisoned or not. What is your proof anyway??? That he rambled a bunch of crap in a senile, delirious daze when he was sick? Was there an autopsy? Were there any arrests? Any independent investigations? In fact, if you have ANY tangible evidence I'll be glad to hear it. Until then - take your amateur, National Enquirer-style gossip and take a hike.

[shawnme08]

(When you believe in things that do not exist)

*That's your opinion!*

How was he being delusional?

That is your opinion.

From all these comments I've read, calm down.

Peace

[Betelgeuse3000]

shawn,

When you believe in absurd spook stories without evidence, that's one thing. When you go further and base your entire life around this belief that's another. When you start a movement and convince thousands to live the same delusion - that crosses the line and I have every right to speak my opinion on it.

As far as being calm goes - I'm not the one thumping on the spot for hours, mindlessly chanting. I just have a difference of opinion, that's all.

[shawnme08]

What ever!

[MartialArtistWannabe]

What is wrong with you people? Do you not have brains? Betelgeuse is speaking sense...regardless of whether he does it in a condenscending way or not.

Prabu thought that the world was ruled by one king 5,000 years ago, and that God was born and raised after he created the earth (...)

Besides, if I don't remember my next life, why would I purposely stop enjoying this one? And if I'm punished in this life for what I did last life, but I don't remember doing anything, how is that fair?

[MartialArtistWannabe]

Look how happy they get when they talk about how the rest of the world is going to hell. As prabu would say "this means...uh...envious".

The vedic religion has got to be the most retarded religion in the world. If you don't want to say it can't be disproved scientifically, you can disprove it outright through history.

Prabu preached that God can only be reached thru a guru and a guru must be treated like God. Does anyone NOT see anything wrong with this?

[Betelgeuse3000]

MartialArtistWannabe- The problem is that 'faith' means believing in something without evidence. This why religions (especially cults) are so dangerous. These people don't realize that once you have faith, there are no limits to evil. The hijackers of 9/11 carried out a faith-based initiative while being devout to their cause.

Yes Vedic religion is 'out there' but I don't think it's any stupider than other religions: They're ALL cuckoo at the end of the day. Funnily enough they don't see it!

[DIEGOKEN242]

Come on!

This is a very interesting conversation.

Please! respect to this devotees.

Everyone here are respecting each other.

[July9th1977]

Its Prabhupada actually not Prabu - atleast have some respect if you are going to take part in a discussion. And Prabhupada doesn't claim it, it is written in the Vedic Sastra - well before any other religious texts were written. And yes that is proven. If you think one king could not rule the whole world, then how is possible that the British Monarchy ruled 1/3 of the world at one point?

[MartialArtistWannabe]

It's not about respect - I shorten his name to help me with the word limit on this site.

I didn't say that one king couldn't rule the whole world - all I said is that it's is historically inaccurate. And that's the truth. If you want to disregard all the solid evidence historians have put forth about our past and believe a book written by unknown authors over MANY years, which contains myths and stories about godS and promises of reward in return for a strictly austere lifestyle - go ahead.

[July9th1977]

What solid evidence? i've never heard of any. Evidence which comes from Vedic Culture has never been disputed by scholars and historians - namely Prabhupada, Gandhi even J. Robert Oppenheimer.  I'm sorry to say this but you seem like an angry, bitter, atheists who is out to defame Vedic Culture and you clearly have not done your research properly.

[July9th1977]

And why do we accept the Vedas as well as Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita, Ramayan and Puranas as authentic Vedic literature because the acharayas; Shankara, Ramanuja, and Madhva have all authorised them as Valid Vedic eviddence and have written commentaries on them.

[movieguy7589]

your screenname says it all....you are a wannabe...but one thing you are is for sure an idiot....because an asshole like you doesn't even realizes that the vedic scriptures were written thousands of years ago and it has been proven linguistically, philosophically and historically by western scholars. In fact, Mark Twain, Frances Voltaire, Hendry David Thoreau, Oppenheimer, and many indologists have proven this.

[MartialArtistWannabe]

Quote me where I made a claim regarding the age of the vedic scriptures. I did not. All I said was that the content IN the vedic scriptures could be disproved through history. I don't see who you are to be passing judgement on another's personality or intellegence.

My mother is a very devout Hindu, I know much about the Hindu religion...for example I know that Prabu wouldn't appreciate the negative ad hominems you've been spitting my way.

"Ehhh...........This is called.....gay." - Prabu. lol.

[chamokc]

@MartialArtistWannabe FYI Krishna Consciousness Vaisnavism is not Hindu religion at all i don't know where your getting your info from! It's a philosophical science, consciousness and orders of Krishna. There is never ever any mention of Hindu in any of the vedic scriptures. We need to stop thinking that religion and God are designated to a culture or people. God is neither Hindu, Christian, or Muslim, God is God.

[MartialArtistWannabe]

@chamokc

It is but a sect of Hinduism. All the traditions, stories, practices are the same. And Prabu also recognized other big names in Hinduism (Hanuman, Shiva, etc) as Krishna in different forms, which is exactly what Hinduism is. A bunch of beings who are in actuality one being. Hinduism is but a result of self-described wise men adding their own spins, stories and egos into Indian culture over thousands of years. Krishna is nothing more than a spinoff of Christ (I'm not a Christian)

[movieguy7589]

You can go to any university and take up south asian studies or vedic studies course and you will find that one of the primary things they teach is vedic scriptures are the oldest scriptures in the world...are u high, uneducated or a red neck or something who doesn't know what the hell you talking about...who looks like the fool now....asswipe...go fuck your cousin or something....idiot....

[AfriKing13]

Try not put profane words on videos such as this.

When you're communicating to another soul always remember they are a devotee of Krishna. Doesn't mean they are not confused with certain facts.

Teach him Krishna Consciousness in a favourable way

[greatProphet1]

@MartialArtistWannabe

I have just one question to u,Where the matterial come.

[MartialArtistWannabe]

@greatProphet1

If I knew that, I would know the answer to the oldest question on earth.

I don't believe Prabupada told you where "material" comes from either. His answer was "God". That's cheating. I can make up something too..."material" comes from a family of mystic elves who have always been around, but are mortals. This life is a test...if we piss off the elves, we get food body. This is fact. See how easy it is? No offense.

[greatProphet1]

@MartialArtistWannabe

If u have power to creat,then why u said life is a test.The power of creation is the power of god as in the holy bible tells that water was created .that is god creat matter not living one as water is a matter.The mortality is occured for material,After death body is just a matter.but Wat is the difference between dead body and living body?

[chamokc]

@MartialArtistWannabe Uh Prabupada did tell us where the material came from lol. Krishna, if you think logically about it everything in this material universe comes from something, that is fact! We come from our parents and so on, the chair, a blade of grass, nothing just happens. And that something is God, if you can't understand that, then that's your hang up and hopefully someday you'll be able to have the brain intelligence to understand. You are being controlled, if u weren't why do u die?

[MartialArtistWannabe]

@chamokc

I can understand "God" the concept. I can understand something above time and nature because this world we live in must've been created by something above it. I can't understand the concious being that you call God. Prabu was recorded saying that the reason this "God" put us on earth was because we forced him - as a son forces a father. Anyone with half a brain should know that this is complete baloney.

[July9th1977]

Do you dispute the fact that Vedic texts were written well before any other religious texts? And the author is god why would it be man? Men do not have the intelligence to even make up a religion as vast, rich and intelligent as Vedic Culture.

[July9th1977]

As for the last bit you wrote, every action has a reaction whether good or bad, just like there are state laws where if you go against them you will punished. Surely if such a system exists materially don't you think God would have set up a similiar system?

[MartialArtistWannabe]

There's nothing wrong with the concept of divine punishment. My problem is the grounds on which one is punished. I don't appreciate being punished for something my soul did in another person's body, another person's life - not to mention reincarnation makes no sense.

If there was a God, I doubt He'd create books riddled with myths and instructions for what to do and what not to do and expect people to follow them blindly with absolutely no solid evidence and punish them if they refused.

[July9th1977]

Krishna first reveals the Vedic knowledge to Brahma (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.537) * Brahma seeks his origin and is instructed to perform penance * Krishna is pleased and reveals His transcendental realm * Brahma asks Krishna questions * Krishna reveals the answers

Brahma passes the Vedas to Narada, who passes them to Vyasa (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.445)

[July9th1977]

Vyasa compiles the four Vedas (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.4.1525) * Vyasa foresaw the degradation of Kali-yuga * He divides the Vedas into four parts * The 108 Upanisads: philosophical discourses are part of the Vedas * Then the fiftth Veda: the 17 Puranas (except Srimad-Bhagavatam) and Mahabharata (includes Bhagavad-gita) * Vedanta-Sutra, (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.4) * Srimad-Bhagavatam, the ripened fruit, the natural commentary of Vedanta Sutra (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5)

[chamokc]

@MartialArtistWannabe You obvisouly don't have a clue of the vaisnave relegion, this is what happens all the time, you have people argure a point that is ALL READY explained in the Srimad Bhagavatima, Puranas, and Bhagavad Gita. If you had some knowledge of any of these books, and read your question you would realize that it makes no sense, I'm sorry but before you come to argue you should know both sides. And I can't argue with someone who has no knowledge of a subject.

[MartialArtistWannabe]

@chamokc

Much of what Prabu said not only contradicted science and common sense, but also History. Perhaps you need to become more well rounded so you can make connections between things and can disregard some things as completely irrational.

[TheRealCognac69]

You're a loser! haha. You are obviously a pessimistic asshole who hasn't seen any happiness in your life! You sound like an Atheist, and most atheists that I have known have been the most unhappy people I have met. Maybe one day you can find happiness in your life, but until then, dig yourself a deeper hole!

[Betelgeuse3000]

Well... there you have it folks. Incontrovertible evidence from TheRealCognac that Prabhupada indeed was poisoned! Mr. Judge, Jury and Executioner also proved beyond a shadow of doubt all the other allegations of misconduct by the evil perpetrators!

Elect TheRealCognac69 - he'll deliver JUSTICE! Hahaha...

[davegarret]

Radhashna:"What u said to me is also applicabl eto u?? I am rite?"

Yes you are right. And I am glad you can see through his contradiction and duplicity.

He plays the victim and guilt trips as to others bad behaviour, but at the same time call's Prabhupada 'senile', and his followers 'delusional'.

Calling Prabhupada 'senile' is beyond free speech, it is malicious. At the same time he plays the victim of malicious behaviour.

This kind of self contradiction is classic NPD

[davegarret]

"You could've responded to my original points with a little grace - but nooo! Why not try and be nice for a change?"

Radhashna dont fall for this classic type of guilt tripping. You have every right to be angry and you have behaved in a very dignified manner, donot let him convince you otherwise, its classic phychological blackmail from a very sick twisted individual.

If this person has a wife/girlfriend it must be absolute hell for them thats all I can say.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Oh yeah... you've both really conducted yourselves in a dignified manner! I want to discuss the issues, pertaining to the man, his faith and his message. Instead you choose to discuss me - and paint whatever picture makes you sleep better at night.

This obsession really needs to stop, Dave. For someone who claims not to have time to debate- you're investing a lot of yourself in mud-slinging. All this time we could've had a worthwhile discussion. =)

[davegarret]

Betelgeuse3000 said;

"dave- I don't feel I was abusive to your guru at all."

Then said;

"The last thing I am is envious of a DELUSIONAL SENILE old man from the seventies that GOT WHAT WAS COMING TO HIM."

I certainly shall not waste my time dealing with a CLEAR hypocrite, who contradicts himself continuously.

Watch here it comes...'woe is me' type guilt trips of how he is being treated, more ad hominem personal attacks etc

This guy is a textbook narcisist.

[davegarret]

From MALIGNANT SELF LOVE-NARCISSISM REVISTED" BY DR. SAM VAKNIN........

"The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves.THEY WILL DO THIS VIRTUALLY IN THE SAME SENTANCE, without even stopping to take a breath. When you ask them which one they mean, THEY'LL DENY EVER SAYING THE FIRST ONE, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it.They will contradict FACTS."

This Betelgeuse3000 is a textbook case of Narcissistic personality Disorder.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Nobody's attacking you here - try and chill out - Jesus! I'm just curious as to how you buy into some of the ridiculous statements made by your guru. If anybody's attacking you - it's Prabhupada himself with his outright sexism.

About me pointing out your anger: anybody reading your posts can gather that much. You could've responded to my original points with a little grace - but nooo! Why not try and be nice for a change?

And no, you don't have to believe in the Vedas to understand them.

[davegarret]

"Radhasha - So let me get this straight-if your spiritual master says things that are questionable, offensive or plain ridiculous, are we supposed to just keep our mouths shut and obey regardless?"

No of course we should challenge, and be allowed free speech. By all means thats healthy. Actually a lot of problems in ISKCON are due to supressing free thought/ dissent. But its just the was you said it, it got me mad to be honest.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Well, I'm glad that I'm not the one with anger management problems here. Anyway, it seems that even if your guru said that it's healthy to hit your mother - you'd believe it. He is beyond any kind of criticism to you which, I frankly find dangerous and is at the heart of the problems we see on this planet.

If mankind was nature's first grievous error - religion was the second.

[Radhashna]

please Betelgeuse 3000...Before critising a person u must know a lot about him u said that u aren't a devotee so haw could u personnally atack Him ???Did Prabhupada personally cheat u ??? iF NOT THEN U R WAISTING UR VALUABLE TIME CRITISIZING PEAPLE....ANYWAY i DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS MORE ABOUT THAT COZ I HAVE A LIFE BESIDES I JUSTWANTED TO ASNWER U ...IF U DON'T AGREE WITH ME WELL I DON'T CARE...BYE

[Betelgeuse3000]

Well if you didn't care, we wouldn't be having this pleasant exchange of words. No, Prabhupada didn't cheat me - I just see through his stupidity that's all. And no, you don't have to be a devotee to know enough about a guy or to criticize him. I suppose you don't criticize Hitler or this Tamal guy (I keep hearing about) for the same reasons.

[Radhashna]

well I'm glad that u can critisise Tamal KG and Hitler u can do whatever u like ...I'm just telling u dto do no use some harsh woeds...actually I know pretty myself whom to beleve or not I m not so that stupid!!!to believe a cheater for eg.I wouldn't support like u hav said tamal etc...but prabhupada is far from critisisim (according to me ) if u don't like Him well that's ur rights.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Now I understand. If you're an example of the women Prabhupada was exposed to - it's no wonder he concluded that they are the inferior gender. It's clear you're not even understanding my points, let alone adequately addressing them.

Besides - what makes the Vedas right? Is it so hard for you to determine right from wrong? Does everything have to be spelled out in alpha blocks?

[Radhashna]

actually now also i understand if u don't trust in vedas then u r not able to understand Him nor GOD!!!for indian (at least majorities)even among non-believers they accept vedas as an authority!!! if u do not believe in it well sorry to say that but u have no hope!(god himself is sayin dat!in the bhagavad-Gita!OOPS SORRY I FOEGOT THAT U DON'T ALSO BELIEVE IN THE GITA!!!) OKI never mind I let u do ur job without any disturbance anymore !!!have a nice day!

[Betelgeuse3000]

Oh yeah, about me having no hope if I don't believe in the Vedas... what if Christians and/or Muslims are right? Then I guess you're headed to their hell in the afterlife.

Oh you don't believe in their texts? Well - then there you have it... you're an Atheist to their Gods... some of us just go one God further. It's quite liberating actually.

[Radhashna]

LOL Je te laisser délirer dans ton propre coin!!!

[Radhashna]

I was quite angry when Betelgeuse 3000 was insulting Him...coz' I respect Prabhupada more than my own parents! (to be honest whith u)

u can use ur intelligence and debate or u can critize Him but in a DECENT manner PLEASEEEEEu know.Moreover It is not respectable for a person to say some bad words...that's why i rebuked her/him.Respect doesn'y men to obey blindly a so-called guru.Again I m not a member of ISKON AND I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY RITIVIK SYSTEM!

[Betelgeuse3000]

Another devotee with severe anger management issues - I am seeing a pattern now. Listen to yourself - you're demonstrating all the hallmarks of a true cult member.

[davegarret]

Look I appologise if you feel I was abnoxious in any way, but please remember that you came here being quite abusive towards our beloved Spiritual Master, name calling etc.

I do not wish to get into a debate as I am already involved in quite a few regarding the Rtvik/traditional guru system debate.

Yes Prabhupada made some controverial statements, but I feel there is actually truth in all of them. Even the 'rape' one, as many women have rape fantasies etc google it

[Betelgeuse3000]

dave- I don't feel I was abusive to your guru at all. I genuinely think that he was a hypocrite and he spoke a lot of nonsense.

Many women have rape fantasies? I can assure you that the vast majority don't. Instead of looking it up on the reliable source, known as the internet, why not ask some psychologists, or better yet ask your female friends (if you even have any). For your guru to make an irresponsible blanket statement like that isn't controversial - it's foolish.

[Radhashna]

actually ur statement is foolish coz' Im myself a "woman" and I do not feel any offense u know if prabhupada has said so it's true!!!coz understand this:SPIRITUALLY WE R ALL WOMEN BUT MATERIALLY WE HAVE ASSUMED MAN AND WOMEN BODIES SO UR R SPECULLATING IN A MATERIAL POINT OF VIW AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE U UNDERDANT THESE THINGDS WHICH ARE VERY SUBTLE...SO JUST FORGET IT!!!

[Betelgeuse3000]

So as a woman do you agree with Prabhupada's disgusting notion that "although rape is illegal, a woman likes a man who is expert at rape"?

Do you also agree that women should be subordinate to men, irrespective of their caste?

Do you believe that you are less intelligent than men because you have less brain mass than men?

Do you believe that as a woman, you are incapable of creating anything of cultural value?

Prabhupada taught this and if you agree with it, then I truly feel sorry for you.

[Radhashna]

As I have said before (read that comment) I had said that SPIRITUALLY we r all wmen and GOD is the OLNLY man so we devotees we r not in a material platform although we live in a material world.First I felt quite disappointed when He said those things BUT I have understood that whatever He said was actually true( im not insulting them since it's their nature).Moreover the fact about women being less intelligent it's not Srila Prabhupada 's statement, it was his professor's!

[Betelgeuse3000]

NO. Prabhupada has continually stated that women are less intelligent than men. He used his 1920's psychology professor to justify this ridiculous claim. According to his professor, women have less brain mass than men thus making them intellectually inferior. Prabhupada jumped all over this and used it as "proof", even though it's been disproved culturally, historically and scientifically.

[Radhashna]

ok.what is ur actual aim??? to remove my faith from Him

if so... forget it!

Again u r not tryin to understand what i SAID ...please read carefully before posting...thank u(we r all spiritual souls for God's sake!)if u disagree please stop psin to my answers! thank u!!!

[Betelgeuse3000]

What's my aim? How about expressing free speech without being mobbed by you and your fellow devotees who obviously learned nothing about anger management, or handling criticism gracefully. Aren't you supposed to chant, meditate or iron shirts to absolve yourself from these petty emotions?

[Radhashna]

great Betelgneuse it's for the first time that i m biieng attacked in a website thanks for that!!!if u know so much about anger!!! why don't u also begin to chant , meditate ...instead of critisising or showing ur anger!!!hum??????????????????W­hat u said to me is also applicabl eto u?? I am rite?

oki sorry I won't disturb u anymore nor should u thank u for debating with me :)

[Radhashna]

women likes rape??? i do not know...

As far as subordination I completely agree coz' its a vedic and indian culure even today (fortnately) women in India are subordinate to men but due to globalizaton they r also poluted by western cultur that's why Prabhupada to reetablish vedic culture instructed all these things to westeners coz' all of them were fallen..

(sorry for me Prabhupada is beyond faults sorry that's me..remenber one thing those ALWAYS critisise others will be critise by others too

[Betelgeuse3000]

Prabhupada said that it is a "fact that a woman likes a man who is expert at rape". As a woman, if you agree with this, then I suggest you seek help.

[Radhashna]

well thank u very much!!!of course I need a help from a psy but people like u who r very expert at finding faults in others are very much normal!!!

[Radhashna]

but do not think that I m convinced by ur statement !!the reason why I m leaving is thatI also have a life aALSO and don't have enough time answering ur questions!

[Betelgeuse3000]

Radhasha - So let me get this straight-if your spiritual master says things that are questionable, offensive or plain ridiculous, are we supposed to just keep our mouths shut and obey regardless?

If that's the case then you should be ok with the racist Church of the Aryan brotherhood, jihadist suicide bombings, Scientology and the Heaven's Gate suicides. Their followers have unquestionable faith in what they believe in.

All religions claim moral correctness, even yours. You've proven that.

[davegarret]

"Instead of name calling and mud slinging why don't you actually find out for yourselves instead of behaving like a bunch of childish religious weirdos throwing a tantrum !"

1. You call Prabhupada a 'meglamaniac' a 'hypocrite' then object to name calling?

2. In the SAME SENTENCE you scream about 'name calling' and 'personal attacks' then call us 'childish' and 'weirdo's!

3. Then you have a little rant about us not being able to see hypocrisy!

Thats what you call irony!!!

[Betelgeuse3000]

Yeah, well, I'm not the one who claims to be spiritually enlightened like your master, who obviously taught you how to rise above criticism - however petty you think it may be.

The real irony is that the very same people who Prabhupada consistently insulted and condemned are the ones who gave him air travel, medical assistance and PA systems whenever he needed it.

[davegarret]

Oh dear here you go again about the air travel! Youre like an old record player,give it a rest youre boring!

Yes Prabhupada used air travel!Get over it! You adnauseously keep repeating this. Your flawed logic is like someone who complains that a police car chasing robbers should not be breaking the speed limit! Its nonsense.

Prabhupada used technology to preach. He never completely condemned it, just that we should give up the false notion that technological advancement will make us happy.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Finally, we have a semblance of rational discussion - good job! Okay, I've heard the 'police breaking laws to chase robbers' argument before.

First of all where is the urgency (as in the analogy) that requires your guru to abrogate on the very principles he preaches by using the polluting nature of planes?

Who are robbers in this analogy? What makes him the police that requires his law-breaking, through the use of technology and its polluting side-effects? Who exactly is he chasing? Us?

[Radhashna]

well that is real intelligence!!! why r uu critisising Him alone if ur want to critisise u shoud insult everyone coz in a way we r also REAL HYPOCRITES!!!(we betray ur friends...and so on and on...)So please u have NO RIGHTS TO SPEAK ABOUT HYPOCRISY!!!(except those who r real vaishnavas i mean those who never lie!!! very Rare!)

[Betelgeuse3000]

First off, as obnoxious as this davegarret has been to me - At least he demonstrates some understanding of what my points are. You, on the other hand aren't even reading what I have to say let alone putting yourself in a position to have a civil discussion about them.

So let's pretend for a second that I'm not a monster and go through my points again - verify them and then try to address them, instead of obsessing about me.

[Betelgeuse3000]

The truth is that your dead guru is so beyond criticism that you guys don't even want to know about his idiocy or warped personal views on reality. Just because he passed it off as "Vedic" doesn't make it so nor true. If you fall for it all then that's OK with me. Enjoy your delusion. That's just the way religion works.

Instead of name calling and mud slinging why don't you actually find out for yourselves instead of behaving like a bunch of childish religious weirdos throwing a tantrum !

[Radhashna]

He is not dead!!! ur lack of real spiritual knowledge my dear that why ur r saying all this nonesense...but that it exusable but we won't exuse u if u personnally attack our Guru( for info° I AM NOT A MEMBER OF iskcon!!!)

[Dharmasetu]

Betelgueus3000 said,

"He publicly degraded women as a subordinate class"

Oh dear the feminist P/C brigade are getting their dungaree straps in a twist again!

Actually Krishna said it in Bhagavada Gita, Prabhupada just presented it. Stop shooting the messenger.

Some people have too much time on their hands and just use it to just find fault in ,lets face it a sainly indian monk who did nothing but good.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Hahaha me feminist? That'll be the day.

So, Dharmasetu tell me where in the Bhagvad GIta it says that 'although rape is illegal, women like a man who is expert at rape'. While you're at it, please direct me to where it says women will offer no cultural value to this world, nor will they ever make good leaders - the reason for this is because of their smaller brain size'. This is just some of the lunacy you hold so dear.

[Yamaraja]

"Srila Prabhupada was a hypocrite, megalomaniac and a sexist."

Whatever you idiot, in your sick swisted mind perhaps.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Another gutter level personal attack. You must be proud of yourself.

[Radhashna]

soor my comment was to betelgeneuse3000

[Betelgeuse3000]

Very admirable - so I'm a fool just because I hold a different opinion from you? If that's how you measure intelligence then I'm not the fool around here.

[Radhashna]

we respect vaishnavas an r devotees of Krishna...I do not attack u personnaly coz' I don't even know u maybe u can be a good human being ...GOOD for u but I WOULD NOT TOLERATE WHEN SOMEBODY INSULT A REAL DEVOTEE LIKE PRABHUPADA IN THIS INDECENT WAY BY THE WAY UR R ALSO PERSONNALLY ATTACKING PRABHUPADA IN A VERY INDECENT MANNER sO PLEASE STOP THIS and do ur life!!!thank u

[Betelgeuse3000]

Srila Prabhupada was a hypocrite, megalomaniac and a sexist. He continually bashed scientists (who he called fools) with their unnatural use of technology. Focusing on slaughterhouses while enjoying international air travel courtesy of avionics, aerodynamics, physics, mechanical and electrical engineering. He publicly degraded women as a subordinate class, and even said 'a woman likes a man who is expert at rape'. His idiocy went unchallenged simply because of who he was - not what he said.

[mallikadasi]

Jesus couldn't control what his followers did with his message, so with Srila Prabhupada. I wasn't thinking anything political when I posted.

Krishna gives the athesist a brain to logically conclude God does not exist. Krishna can make you conclude false ideas, if this is what you want from Him. To see a dedicated servant of Krishna in this light, I can only pray and have compassion for whatever circumstances brought you to such verbal offenses. I will pray for you.

[Betelgeuse3000]

I appreciate the response. You claim that atheists conclude that God does not exist. With all due respect, that is a false understanding of atheism. If you'd like I can elaborate on that, if you're open-minded.

I do not accept Christ either (at least not in a God-like capacity) for the same reasons I do not accept Krishna or any other supernatural or mythical character.

Thanks for the prayer, but what I would appreciate more is for you to address my points which are 100% accurate. Peace

[mallikadasi]

No. The points are not accurate but when one has a blue filter in front of their eyes you cannot expect them to see the grass in the color green as without a filter.

This material world facilitates what we want. krishna made it that way. You want to hold onto your position and you place the facts to line up how you want to see them. What can be done?

No point getting into semantics over "atheist". Krishna made this place with so many varieties of everything, including Vaishnavas & atheists.

[Betelgeuse3000]

My points are very accurate and verifiable. This is not only corroborated in SP's books and interviews, but also by his delusional devotees at Letchmore Heath. If you can cite a single source where SP says that women are intellectually equal to men or where he praises the work of Scientists then I'll check it out. Until then, it's not me with the delusional filter, it's you. But hey that's religion.

Your definition of an atheist was flat out wrong. It had to be at least pointed out. Peace.

[davegarret]

Only a very twisted screwed up individual like yourself could find fault in Srila Prabhupada.

I mean he said, 'women are less intelligent' thats found everywhere in the Vedas. You make out its invented by Prabhupada! Thats a lie.

He presented as it is. That is why so many love and respect him. He could have said 'oh women are equal' and got thousands more followers. But he did not do that as it does not say that ever in the Vedas.

You are nothing but a nasty envious peice of work.

[Betelgeuse3000]

Believe me, the last thing I am is envious of a delusional senile old man from the seventies that got what was coming to him.

[Yamaraja]

"Srila Prabhupada was a hypocrite, megalomaniac and a sexist."

Whatever you idiot, in your sick swisted mind perhaps.

[enverajanovic]

Only thing that you will burn in ISKCON is holes in your pockets by giving money to hedonistic cheater gurus.

[mallikadasi]

You don't have to hand your money to a hedonistic cheater guru. Vote with your feet. Can anybody stop you from having a relationship with Krishna because you don't hand over money? Srila Prabhupada warned us about men who will come because Religion is a good place to find power (slaves) and wealth. I am sorry it is the material world & it's Kali Yuga & you're in a fix so you asked Krishna to help you out & it's a bumpy ride. It isn't easy getting out of this place. You have to chant chant chant.

[Radhashna]

there is no shelter for a so called devotee who tries to insult a vaishnava escpecially a guru like Srila prabhupada only materialist couldn't undersatnd him ...ur such a fool that's true like prabhupada has said(t'es vraiment nulle ma chère...)

[Betelgeuse3000]

Radhashna - I'm not devotee, thank you very much. By the way, Prabhupada didn't have a problem with materialism, especially when he jetted around the world, while polluting our planet using the evil machines made by the same rascal scientists he abhorred so much. How you people don't see this hypocrisy is astounding.

[Radhashna]

no sorry ur yourself r using these "evil machines" so if u really care about the pollution stop using these machines and walk using ur own feet!!! ur r talking about hypocrisy???u r aalso using them (machines)and at the same time citisizing others Isn't thant hypocrisy?????SO FIRST OF ALL DO IT URSELF THEN ADVISE OR CRITISISE OTHERS TILL THEN JUST CLOSE UR MOUTH PLEASE!!!