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  • @Itseffervecent needs to take a geography course to learn about the environment of Iceland

  • napakainformative ang format ng video

  • The corporation now owns it because they default on there payments.

  • The Icelanders didn't get into this Bankster Mess by themselves. This theft and control plunder repeats itself the world over. Get a clue as to what this "hitman" is saying and smell the coffee.The Banksters are at the "hitman" scheme again.

  • Nobody benefits from Iceland going bankrupt. Nobody forced Iceland to build up anything, they did so because they wanted to, and they could when banks offered them money. Iceland defaulted and now has voted to refuse to repay their loans. Do you really think the UK and Netherlands are going to invade Iceland over $5 billion though? Of course not, Iceland's going to get away with it, they won't be able to borrow any more money, but it will go back to being like before they had intl capital.

  • @ItsEffervescent You need education; Iceland haven’t borrowed any money from neither UK nor Holland.

  • @psilocyberspaceman LOL, you fail 5th grade grammar kid.

  • @ItsEffervescent Doesn’t matter. This is not a grammar test, and mistakes are being made eventually. More extreme is it that you fail totally in your lack of knowledge of the laws surrounding private banks operating in EU countries. To clarify, UK and NL decided to pay out guaranties to the victims of the ICESAVE collapse, which they are obliged to do under their own laws. They in return hoped that guaranty funds in Iceland would cover parts of these payouts; this is, however, not the case.

  • @ItsEffervescent what loans? Iceland has no loans from UK and Netherlands, thus they don't have to pay. Do your homework, UK and Netherlands wanted us to take a loan to repay for the loss of the UK and Netherlands people in the banking system, they wanted Iceland to sign a deal to repay with interest, they don't have our signature and we are not gonna give them our signature, if we couldn't pay they would have been able to take land or government property, that is a bad deal

  • @ItsEffervescent Iceland didnt borrow any money omfg how can you say this when you have no factual data to back this up????

  • @ItsEffervescent Iceland did not BORROW any money in the case you are referring to. You are completely off track, and your ignorant ranting OR name calling won’t change the facts.

  • Calling the international economic system a "secret" "hitman" system is unnecessarily paranoid. This stuff isn't secret, it's out in the open. Iceland got messed up because they essentially built up their entire country using foreign capital because they wouldn't have had the resources themselves to do it on their own----they are a country of 500,000 living on a frozen rock in the middle of the ocean for crying out loud. Don't you think the banks would rather Iceland have money to pay them back?

  • @ItsEffervescent You sir are an idiot ... and there is no point in you commenting here. Your facts are all wrong and you have nothing to commit to discussion.

  • @911Dagur

    Shut up you hysterical infant. Ice land spent money it didn't have. Bottom line. Are you guys seriously retarded enough to miss this point? When you spend money on credit and then default, people want you to repay them. This is not a f***ing conspiracy, but of course there's no convincing you small-minded tit-suckers who have nothing better to do than sit in your parents' basement and "research" conspiracy theories.

  • @ItsEffervescent "When you spend money on credit and then default, people want you to repay them. "

    Exactli! Thank you very much for distracting yourself with silly war against terror, while we take over your country by taking over dollar and economy. Now party is over, now you our slaves - now you silence, now you learn mandarin quick and work hard! Time is money and you owe us much more than you have!

    August 2nd is Payday!

    美國-歡迎到中國經濟帝國!

    放棄所有希望!

  • @ItsEffervescent So. Let me get this straight, You think the empire is built on what? What? Honesty? lol - You sir have just earned post of the year. But im glad you said research. As its obvious you dont understand the word.

  • My family is from Haiti. I have suspected the U.S. HAARP program relative to the Haitian earthquake and some of the other events that you mentioned. I received information that there was preparation for a U.S. military environmental disaster drill, in Florida, the day before the Haitian earthquake. Let me know if you have any other information about Haiti and HAARP and HAARP evidence in general. Thanks.

  • didn't this guy know he was doing wrong when he was an economic hit man , there are too many people like him thinking that if they come cleen now they won't have to face the music when the shit hits the fan ( which it has )good that he's come clean but he shouldnt get off scott free just because he wrot his confessions in a couple of books that he sells for proffit

  • @ahamatmabrahman

    Maybe he was convinced by his superiors that he was doing good (we've all been tricked!). Or maybe he knew he was doing something bad but felt it was his only option. However it seems like he is trying to right his wrongs and help educate a society of people who don't even know these "Hitman" exist.

    It is too bad that he has to make money (to survive) by admitting the bad things he did, and by telling people the truth of how this world is controlled. Too bad he cant be like you

  • @g0dMind its what he does with the money from the sale of his book that matteres, its certainly a best seller , he owes a huge dept to society, wrong is wrong and he know he was doing wrong, and it is a shame he can't be like me, it is not too much to ask that people in positions of trust be worthy of that trust

  • @ahamatmabrahman

    I don't know what he is doing with his money, you seem to imply he is using it to facilitate more negative things; please enlighten me.

    Is he not repaying his debt by educating people?

    You should be harsh on people that continue to be economic hitman, not one that has stopped.

    But maybe your right, maybe he should shut up, stop writing books, stop trying to change things, and live in poverty like you think he deserves. That seems best for everyone.

    How should he repay his debt?

  • @g0dMind i.d just like to know what he's doing apart from selling his confessions

  • @ahamatmabrahman

    Well you should do some research before you slander people next time.

    Check out his mission or his bio at his website.

    "My mission is to do everything I possibly can to create a sustainable, just, and peaceful world" - John Perkins

    Throw some criticism at the people continuing the corruption.

    Did you ever think that if he was never a EHM we wouldn't have even known they exist!

    Give him his second chance, I'm sure he is doing more positive for the world than you.

  • @g0dMind Most people have a simmilar mission if they are sane my question is what has he accomplished so far?

  • @percivallll Given that London is essentially the worlds financial centre, that's where ill gotten gains can be taken to be invested (aka laundered) and hidden.

  • next target :greece.

  • Jesus Henry Christ. This is exactly what happened in Ireland. More and more people are coping on to this though. Keep the alarm bells ringing folks! If we remove banks and debt we remove slavery. We survived without money before we can do it again. 

  • This ends now.

    I'm Icelandic and I can tell you that no matter what our weak government does in regards of the IMF and the EU (which they ask for guidance from, so they wont be pissed off about the Icelandic attitude), no matter what they do, it might not reflect our true attitude.

    We faced Britain in 1976 in the Cod Wars and won, we will win again.

  • I've read his book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" and it's good. I highly recommend it to others!

  • @shadowC10ne Hmmm, I might just do that.

  • The global economic is just a game of poker.

  • Not only was Iceland a target for economic hit men several years ago, but also her volcano was a target for America's HAARP in Alaska several months ago when Icelanders thought to speak out and oppose the rulership of the London-based Zionist Rothschild Cabal masters and their US puppets.

  • @smart0money Yeahbe cause a volcano has never erupted there before HAARP was invented right?

  • @smart0money Smart. I talking here in Iceland about HAARP to Icelanders but they are not believe me at all.

    My wind analyzing before and in volcano eruption in Eyjafjallajökull was been that USA turn wind and made cooler weather immediately after beginning of eruption.

  • @smart0money Is HAARP really capable of doing such a terrible thing? WTF!!!

  • @killswitch7master Yes, you'd better believe it, son! HAARP just did Japan 2 days ago. The record 8.9 magnitude earthquake and tsunami in Japan damaged the nuclear power plant which has already begun releasing nuclear radiation which will soon find its target, China, after the Zionist globalists (Jewish parasites) have failed to destabilize China under the guise of the Arab-inspired, US-sponsored Jasmine Revolution. ☆☆☆☆☆

  • @killswitch7master Besides Iceland's volcano eruption, HAARP did Japan's earthquake, Pakistan’s mega-flood, Haiti’s earthquake, Russia’s drought, all in last year, and many others memorable in Indonesia, Iran, China and Venezuela in recent years. They were not the work of Mother Nature as the sheep believe -- but American jobs. ☆☆☆☆☆

  • @smart0money My family is from Haiti. I have suspect the U.S. HAARP program relative to the Haitian earthquake and some of the other events that you mentioned. I received information that there was preparation for a U.S. military environmental disaster drill, in Florida, the day before the Haitian earthquake. Let me know if you have any other information about Haiti and HAARP and HAARP evidence in general. Thanks.

  • @ramazone2 You're right about the connection between HAARP and Hait's earthquake. For amazing info on the agendas behind the subsequent US occupation of Haiti, go to :

    wwwDOTengdahlDOToilgeopolitics­DOTnet

    Look for a video and an article :

    "Strategic denial of oil in Haiti? / The Real News Network"

    "The Fateful Geological Prize Called Haiti"

  • @smart0money well maybe a bit harsh to blame all "acts of god" on the Americans - hahahaha, after all there were volcanoes and earthquakes prior to America.... : )

    But I like where your going with this ; )

  • @killswitch7master The little dirty secret is : America has the Nicola Tesla technology called HAARP in Alaska whereby it can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes "remotely" through the use of electromagnetic waves to 1) wreak economic terror upon an enemy nation which oppose the rulership of the London-based Zionist Rothschild Cabal and their US puppets, or 2) create a crisis in a nation and thus an opportunity for change in favor of America’s foreign policy. ☆☆☆☆☆

  • @smart0money IT CAN ALSO PROVIDE FREE ENERGY LIMITLESS, yet rather than give the citizens that, the zionist run government would rather use it for terror..

  • @smart0money Erh... no it wasn’t. What would the purpose be?

  • UK is the nest of evil!

  • truth, The western system is satanic.

  • infowars

  • Perkins is just another shill con-man. Even the "lowest" CIA pilot involved in drug dealing managed to provide evidence and this guy ZERO go figure. What this shills do is that they cover up most of the crimes of the Elite, hide who the Elite is and offer us Socialism/Big Brother as the solution...classic Marxist "the real action is in the reaction" + "control the oposition"

  • @GodHatesPortugal You don't have to pick between capitalism or socialism, there is a middle way.

  • the answer is YES, and i didn't even need to watch this video.

  • That is where Chavez,Morales,Castro and those leftist toughliners set in to neutralise the activities of these inhumane criminals.

    I hate them for all the evils they inflict on poor helpless people of the world.

  • There needs to be a trial and the world must take note so that this will not be tolerated EVER AGAIN!!! Find out who these criminals are. Round them up, try them, show the proof and then hang them from gallows in front of Iceland Parliment . Put it on TV. The Wall Street thieves, banker and corrupt US politicians need to watch this happening and know it will be their turn next.

  • It's not capitalism. It's mercantilism. It's what happens when you have a central bank like the Federal Reserve.

  • We are all victims of economic Hitmen,

    I refuse to believe there is not a conspiracy behind it (and I don't take on Conspiracy theories easily)

    Irelands case is almost worse than Icelands.

    (one letter and 6months difference was the joke)

    Tragic idiocy and mismanagement has left 300,000homes now vacant following a boom that saw house prices rise up over 200%.

    Many people have lost everything.

    NOT ONE PROSECUTION yet for this disaster!

    A National scandal.

  • @ireland2day Agree with you. We are all victims of the Hitmen and it's hard to believe that there is not some conspiracy behind all of this. That's about the only thing that would maybe explain the catastrophic idiocy of our so-called "leaders".

  • @skeetereze

    Yes, we face economic catastrophe- but are they really such idiots? can this really all have been such a vast blundering by stupid, greedy, shortsighted bankers? or was it a timed ecomomic collapse to achieve some other agenda?

    The clue is in the reaction to the debacle and the perpetrators of it.

    As I have stated- not a single prosecution yet anywhere- quite the opposite at least in Ireland where they got more than golden handshakes...

    Sinister, but we have to watch carefully.

  • One investor bought up thousands of empty properties surrounding my area in the US then he rented them all out to minorities and illegal aliens and transients it killed the good area's property values. It's called blockbusting. Jews did this after they desegregated the south in 1964 and passed the civil rights acts

    BLOCKBUSTING why you should be TERRIFIED!!!!

    watch?v=r_F9kt-6ZyQ

  • It's called shock capitalism turn everyone against each other import all different races and ethnicities to destroy all unity and force everyone to take this new economic system that will benefit the oligarchs

  • @IrishAustrian1488 we must love one another.

  • In 1656 the Jews were allowed to return to Britain,after being expelled previously for bleeding the poor dry.Before the civil war Oliver Cromwell borrowed money to fund the war from dutch Jews.After he had slaughtered our king and deeply indebted to the Jews,he allowed them to begin the business of usury.

    The bank of England was and is Jewish run along with the federal reserve etc..They have incredible power to make or break countries.

  • Giant size money is the culprit. It's bigger than the people that think they own it, it's bigger than banks, governments armies or anything else. It can and will be eliminated Star Trek Style. You just watch and see. What's wonderful is that people are becoming aware. I cannot underscore this enough. Even the people hiding in thier little luxury European apartments know it's a hideous spring just waiting to unravel, but when,....When is now.

  • how world war was started by england to destroy germany and Russia.p[[;p[p[p

    England is the Hyena of Europe. Her policy has been through spy network to let real powers fight it out so that it can enjoy the kill. Therefore first it pirated against Spain ,and 50 years later against Holland (who it had tried to help against Spain). Many of Dutch east India company ships were looted in English channel. At the same time it incited France against Spain and after Spain had been neutralized It incited

  • country to banish the jews from almost 1200AD till 1650Ad-when th ejews were brogut back by the war criminal cromwwall.

    surpriuse is that wsince then the jews hafve been isntrumental and pawn in he hands of english race to help the english loot others.

    wh7 shoud we not do to englsih race what they have been doing to others?

    iceland shoudl refuse paying to england which is a terroirst and fraud country anyway and help the world in destorying the enlgish race.

  • Iceland should do to england what england did to creditors before

    Iceland should do to england what england did to creditors before!

    let me explain. when the richard-so called lion the heart was =going on crusagd, he ordered his minions to kill all the jews of york in 1191 Ad who had lent to him and his minsters hugh sums of money - that is how he got rid of debt. ofopcurse that same person put jewish children to boling water. the same war criminal has statue in front of british parlia

  • The Money Masters are done with the Third World now they are going to target the First and Second World.

  • Exactly

  • in 2008 nearly everything in Iceland went bankrupt, the state used all their money to cover for that, so now they have zero euro's or kroners. This 3,8 billion cost the dutch 92 euro per tax payer, the English 40 pound each. In iceland with just over 300.000 people , means 14.000 euros per person, can you afford that?

  • I personaly do not fear the uk's and nl bully tactics Iceland is completly self sufficiant and we have been living on this rock for hundreds of years and a break from this ethicly declining world order dosent sound that bad but other countrys are maybe not so lucky what will you do with them when the time comes I REFUSE do agree to a completly absurd contract and ask your self why uk and nl dont want to go to court and refuse any neutral partys overseeing negotiations what do they fear?

  • Iceland who are you talking about the people of iceland the comeners the working people what is your view on this do you think we have a chest marked uk icesave money are you personaly reasponsable for what a private uk bank does in other countrys and should you and your born or unborn children pay for there mistakes. Icelandic bankers should be hung from the highest poles no question and the banking system is truly rotten to the core here and around the world I will turn my spears on them

  • Disembowelment is too kind a punishment for these fuckers! Millions are dying because they like to gamble...we need another Nuernberg trial for these fucktards!

  • And how come all the corrupt bastards of the world have a safe heaven in the UK!? Russian oligarchs, icelandic swindlers, arabic terrorists....just curious...

  • percivallll Where would you put your legally corrupt profits. You would put it in your dads bank, for London is the banking centre of the world, and London is the school for teaching future prospective fraudsters.We now have hundreds of BILLIONAIRES, Oligarchs, many live in London,a handful working together can wreak havoc on any nations economy.Collectively they can destroy the global economy,and they have.These global thieves wrap themselves in the flags of all nations, but are loyal to none.

  • @percivallll The center of London belongs to the bank of England, who despite the name have no affiliation to the gov't of the UK, and are the grandfathers of the corrupt federal reserve system here in the U.S. It is controlled mostly by the Rothschild family, one of the original bloodlines of the Illuminati.  Of course they protect their underlings, which is what all of those swindlers and Russian oligarchs really are.

  • @percivallll Like the Rothschilds said, "It doesnt matter who the ruler is, if you control the purse strings you control the world"

  • Can't seem to find a source for this quote. When I google search it the only result that matched the quote is the Youtube comment section.

    Can I have a source please?

  • @Jmonstra Sorry, I actually had the quote wrong, It was made by Mayer Amschel Rothschild, and the exact quote is "Give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes the laws"

  • @percivallll

    And don't forget those disgusting jews.

  • @percivallll Google "Britain tax haven".

  • @percivallll - Check out The Secret of Oz, that documentary, found in full on YouTube (and my channel atm.) explains that very well.

  • @percivallll Probably because it's easiest to get away with it there. The British don't really stand up for themselves. They've got the most massive surveilance state in the world, they allow the EU commission to write 80% of their laws, etc. Unfortunate. :(

  • @percivallll one word: rothschild!!

  • @percivallll BINGO!

    I get so SICK at the fools, Mi6 and IDF agents pointing the finger at America, London's favorite, formerly wealthy, SOCK PUPPET! (Using American BLOOD for her wars of profit!)

    London has also OWNED the so-called Islamic Brotherhood since the original leader was assassinated.

  • @percivallll you got it bro.... City of London the global den of thieves.

  • @percivallll

    UK is where all the power is, the British Empire is a banking empire these days..protected by America.

  • @Rustyshackleford08 I would agree with that statement...

    

  • @percivallll Couz we all love prostitution that they teach!

  • @percivallll because UK is a fucked up country.... with bastards running it.. and the english population is dumb as fuuck..

    the london bombings proved that..

  • @SenaShiv Not as dumb and corrupt as the US Government and you know it!

  • and many good people of the world will join with you to repel these elitist bloodsuckers!

    united we stand.

    imagine if iceland were populated with nigerians....3rd wealthiest per capita? ha! not likely....but i digress.

    if all countries were like iceland....peaceful....prosper­ous....conscientious....we'd all be better off.

    we need to come to the aid of places and people like that.

  • Hey your neighbour crashed his car and you have to pay for it. Why? Just because..

    Idiot...

  • @MrVigginight

    Your right, Why did the UK government bail out icesave? we should have let the icelandic businesses and private investoris lose everything.I bet your proud to come from the only western country to go cap in hand to the IMF.

  • All 33 are connected to the Jesuits, Illuminati, 33rd Degree Masons and Zionist (not to be confused with the Real Jews but political zionist) that are heading us to the New World Order, One world religion and one currency/mark of the Beast

  • Perkins book is EXCELLENT

  • "Corporations covet". Isn't that the truth. The US Military is an arm of those corporations.

  • People used to say that these third world countries were basket cases that wanted no progress and wanted to ruin their own countries.

    Maybe it's not true.

  • We the us tax payers also paid for the hydro power that subsidized the building of their plants in the northwest so they could supply alum. to the war machine. We also payed for the nuclear industry who refines their fuel in the same area.

  • I can remember hearing of Alcoa talks of moving all operations to Iceland in the 80's from friends in Alcoa, TN. Alcoa come to TN because the government built many hydroelectric dams in the area during the great depression. That was nice of them. Now they are off to the leech from the next victum.

    PS: most aluminum ore comes from aruba and recyclable metal from USA so why build you plants in iceland unless someone is paying for the difference in logistical losses.

  • difficult to say whether Iceland was really targeted or its authorities were just plain irresponsible to get too much loans. plus very lax banking policies and regulations.

  • i worked for alcoa..than sappa baught the place

  • No system is perfect, it is like it has been since the beginning of time.

    No economic system, no religion will change human behavior. Iceland has nobody to blame except themselves. It was for them to do a proper analysis of the reward/risk ratio. As an entrepreneur I make decisions everyday concerning this, and evidently Iceland made an error, and now they have to live with the consequences. I have to say no to opportunities that are too large for me to handle the risk, Iceland didn't. Simple

  • Chuck

    It's the same tired argument. You con or manipulate your victim and then blame them for their downfall. They should have known better, right? Meanwhile you pocket your winnings and take the moral high ground as well.

    A willing buyer and willing seller is dependent on both being equals in knowledge. Since humans are not born equal this can never be the case. One, either buyer or seller, will always have an advantage and in a free market will exploit that advantage.

  • I agree with your 2nd paragraph.

    Bottom line buyer beware, and as glennd7962 clearly states there was no coercion. Iceland screwed up, now they have to pay the price.

    1st paragraph, could not disagree with you more. It was a business deal, and Iceland as a country has the resources at hand "theoretically" to deal on an even level with any other country or company.

    when I deal with larger entities, I'm very careful, and take extra care.

    When an offer is to good, then it usually is.

  • Well, I think the point Perkins is making is that Iceland didn't make those decisions in a vacuum. By that argument, any victim of nearly any crime is culpable for their victimization.

  • sit:A

    A scantily clad woman walking down the street and gets raped. In this case I would not blame the victim, would demand the highest punishment possible to the perpetrators. Especially since I want to promote this behavior by women!

    Sit:B

    A contract entered into by two or more parties regardless of their size or knowledge without coercion. There is no crime, and therefore no victim. Their may be winners and losers in the deal, but that is the responsibility of the parties involved.

  • Situation C: A contract entered into between the elected leaders of one country and financial sales persons of another country. The proceedings are secret, so who knows what consitutes "responsibility" of the parties involved. But Perkins himself describes fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, etc... as the tools of the trade.

  • Besides, when you say "Iceland has to live with the consequences, oh well", what does that mean. A) the world has to live with the consequences, B) Iceland didn't enter their contract in a vacuum. Perkins is educating, rather than taking the blame the victim approach.

  • This book is excellent! I totally recommend it! Personally, I read 2 or 3 books a year at most and like most of us much of what I know now comes from documentaries or the YouTube... but this book is one that I definitely recommend that you read. Powerful stuff!

  • There are times when truth is more entertaining than fiction. Thank you for your very informative truth. I will search for your writings and speeches everywhere permitted.

  • Britain and the Netherlands are to be blamed for this they are forcing Iceland into artificial debt using illegitimate claims of Icelandic banks failing in Britain and Netherlands. Which those two countries deliberately seized the Icelandic bank...Predatory Capitalism.

    And Iceland has been it's target.

    Though the Icelandic people have made their voices heard and have said they will not repay this artificial debt demanded by Britain and Netherlands!

  • It's not predatory capitalism, it's predatory Usury

    Usury works against all countries whether they be communist, capitalist, or even monarchies

  • Don't continue to spread lies Sir. if you do not know what capitalism is please get informed.

    Where is the capital in paper currencies? That's right, there is none. Government regulation of the economy and funny money are what allow governments to provoke these booms and busts.

    I think it is positive you are exposing your past deeds, although you have been a tool for these people in the past. If you are seeking redemption for the past, continue exposing them, it's the least you can do.

    Peace

  • where these nations made their mistake is when they went into DEBT, when they accepted loans and obligated themselves to future repayment. if you can't pay for something without a loan, you can't afford it.

  • Herb, you'll gain a better understanding of the issues involved with these debts if you watch the full length talk at the Fora site.

    National debts should be invalidated if they are incurred by dictators, or through deception and force by multinational corporations Such debts should be rendered null and void.

    Requiring repayment of such national debts would be like forcing you to repay a mortgage taken out by a con man who forges documents and fools a bank into believing he owns your house.

  • Absolutely correct Kevintype !

  • @kevintype, can you site some examples. If I have time I will debunk them one by one.

  • whoops... I replied to the wrong comment.. posting now at the appropriate place.

  • @herbs814 ... What do suppose is the ethnic and religious composition of this predatory lending and corporate leadership? Perhaps not the sort of cultural attachments that would be loyal to the best interests of Icelanders or Americans etc, but not without loyalties of another sort.

  • That's what got us in this mess in the first place; people's eyes are bigger than their bank accounts and big corporations and banks knew that all too well.

  • Yes - just like the U.S is in major debt to China.

  • and it's the US government that is driving us into debt. While Americans are becoming more responsible in restraining their personal and business spending, America's government is being irresponsible with taxpayer money. And government's rampant spending will be a major issue in November's election.

  • Agreed herbs814. I'm sure there are greedy corporations, but big government is worse. There might be preditory lending, but the government put pressure one banks to give loans to people who coudn't afford it with the Community Reinvestment Act. It may not be totaly communist, bu it isn't free market capitalism when the government attacks specific idustries and businesses while favoring others.

  • No, fascism is when the government attacks specific industries (like insurance and oil) while favoring others (like wind and solar and "green" energy). Exactly what the Dems are imposing on America.

    Free-market capitalism is when the government gets OUT OF THE WAY and does NOT pick winners and losers, nor would the government try to be both a player and a regulator at the same time ("public option").

  • You can add IRELAND to the LIST also GREECE...

  • Daniel, starting a new thread because the others are now quite incoherent.

    Capitalism inevitably creates conditions in which corporate entities seek to control state power, in order to maximize their profits. I'm well aware of regulatory capture. It is a symptom of the same set of problems from failure to properly regulate corporate entities.

    This is perfectly consistent with all I actually said to you the other day. You imagine contradictions because of your haste to pigeonhole me.

  • >>Capitalism inevitably creates conditions in which corporate entities seek to control state power.

    Wrong. Corporations cannot exist without government support... they are not examples of free market capitalism. A corporation, among other uses, is a government barrier which protects a person's assets from being liable for any atrocious act they commit while acting as a fictitious entity (corporation). Corporations act to protect assets of the wealthy... not to protect a free market.

  • Magichand, capitalism also cannot exist without some form of government support.

    The magical world in which capitalism never leads to abusive behavior would be just as wonderful as the "workers' paradise" envisioned by socialist theorists, and it is just as impossible to achieve in real life.

  • @kevintype Your statement that capitalism can't exist without government help is highly false.

    Youtube "How an Economy Works and Why is Doesn't" its an hour and 15min long.

  • Daniel, no thanks, I've already read and seen plenty of economists' fantasies. I know all the details of your theory. It doesn't work in the real world.

  • @kevintype You lack rational ability. He is not a main stream economist. He also is a historian.

    We are in this mess because of Keynesian economic theories/fantasies.

    Read some Austrian economics. Its all read world stuff.

  • "Magichand, capitalism also cannot exist without some form of government support."

    No, this is far from the truth. Read or listen to "What has government done with our money" by Rothbard. This should enlighten you a bit on how government only interferes with the free market.

  • Magichand, I'm aware of all the theories claiming government is always bad. All of them are refuted by history.

    Without laws to protect and regulate it, capitalism inevitably collapses. Wealth and power consolidate into a tiny ruling class. The middle class shrinks. The growing ranks of the desperate poor follow anyone promising revolution.

    Unregulated capitalism is unstable over the long term. Free markets do not stay free, or even stay "markets," without government protection and regulation.

  • @kevintype, I agree that fraud needs to be protected against, however this can be accomplished in a Stateless society. I do believe in the rule of law. However I believe this can be accomplished voluntarily.

  • Magichand, interesting. Karl Marx also imagined it would be possible to establish a "stateless society," in which everybody always does the right thing in a purely voluntary manner.

    Unfortunately, this has never actually worked on any scale larger than a family or perhaps a small village.

    Society works best if most people agree with the law and follow it voluntarily, but without government enforcement, a small minority has always abused the system to exploit everyone else's honesty.

  • >>Unfortunately, this has never actually worked on any scale larger than a family or perhaps a small village

    You should study history of Ireland. They actually flourished for a long time in a stateless society before they were invaded. This is the way actual history goes. Using Marx's socialistic propaganda is pretty weak, and is far from the free market position I have. Can you give me an example of your fairy tale where government prevented all abuses? It has failed 100% of the time.

  • Magichand, you will never find any place where I've even hinted that a government can "prevent all abuses."

    What a well designed form of government can do is reduce abuses to a manageable level, so ordinary citizens do not face the constant threats of death or slavery they would face under conditions of violent anarchy.

    As for your claim about the history of Ireland, if the Irish kings could read this, no doubt they would be amused to hear their society described as stateless.

  • @kevintype... they amount of assumptions you make is quite startling. I never proposed a system of "violent" anarchy, nor slavery which only exists in systems of government-endorsement.

    "Irish kings"? Clearly, you know not of what you speak. You sound as if you think Ireland was always ruled by kings. This is laughable and discussing facts with you is impossible. Good day.

  • Magichand, please read more carefully. I never accused you of proposing violent anarchy. Yet history shows that is the result when we abandon government.

    I never said Ireland was always ruled by kings. Before kings, like anywhere else, it had a tribal culture of small villages. At that scale it may be possible to live without government.

    My point stands. No "stateless society" has ever been shown to work in anything remotely resembling the complex modern world, or even the medieval world.

  • Of course not... violent governments prevent stateless societies from existing in this "modern world" of imperialism. Imperialism has been here for a very long time and has influenced the entire planet. Governments exist to perpetuate imperialism and other forms of slavery and oppression around the world for the benefit of a few. But, still your comments on Ireland represents you really don't know what you are talking about. You should research stateless societies in Ireland and Iceland.

  • Magichand, slavery has existed in many cultures without governments. Violence has existed in almost all cultures, with very few exceptions.

    Like any other human invention, government can be abused. When we the people allow this to happen, governments sometimes support slavery and commit needless violence. But that is far from the only thing governments have ever done.

    The realistic path to improving the world's situation is for people to reform their governments, not tear them down.

  • @kevin: "Magichand, slavery has existed in many cultures without governments".

    Please give a couple of specific examples of slavery in a stateless society where no ruler, democratic or otherwise, did not endorse it.

  • Magichand, slavery was frequently practiced in early tribal cultures, all lacking government structures or other institutional support, from nearly every part of the world.

    To name only a few on the western coast of North America: the Yurok, Pawnee, Klamath, Tlingit, and Haida tribes have all been documented as practicing slavery.

    Furthermore, slavery persists today despite being outlawed by nearly every government, proving government support is far from necessary to perpetuate it.

  • and we call this small minority 'government'

  • Proffesor02, that is a clever turn of phrase, but still a false statement. In the small minority of dishonest people who abuse and exploit other people's honesty and good will, many have nothing to do with government.

  • Any small group of people that claims a monopoly on power over others is immoral (although usually well-intentioned). Giving it a label called government doesn't change the facts of reality, but, you are right immorality isn't only a product of the state in fact I would say the reverse is true... it may be more accurate to say the state is one byproduct of immorality (inconsistent application of a moral principle).

  • Proffesor, you bring to mind a famous passage:

    "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and... oblige it to control itself." (The Federalist, #51)

    I am convinced that a participatory government can be kept benign.

  • @kevintype, the ones that make the actual changes that'll effect people on a large scale is aid by some kind of government approval or knowledge. Predatory lending practices were a byproduct of less regulation of wall street due the governments hands off policy

  • @kevintype I didn't imagine anything. I stated the other day that I did not like green energy companies taking subsidies and you criticized me for it. You supported it.

    You contradicted yourself.

    Corporations have their investors best interest in mind. They only seek government subsidies and help when that said government has the power to do so. Deny the government the power to remove risk and fear and they will become accountable to their own actions.

  • Daniel, I disagreed with your ideology that assumes capitalism is the magic elixir to solve every problem. I never stated support for any specific subsidy program.

    You are claiming I contradicted myself, because you never bothered to actually read or think about what I said. You only scanned what I wrote, looking for certain keywords that have a private meaning to you, and once you found some, you thought you had me all figured out.

    Your ideology renders you too blinded.

  • @kevintype I never stated capitalism solves all. It remains the best system.

    Would you rather have Communism?

    I am not blinded. In fact my eyes are wide open. Read the book I suggested.

  • Daniel, there you go again, assuming anybody who doesn't bow down to your golden idol must be a Communist. I've already stated that I refuse to give any allegiance to the ideologies of the left, just as emphatically as I refuse the ideologies of the right wing.

    History shows that a carefully regulated system of market capitalism can be beneficial. Unregulated, laissez-faire capitalism has proven time and again to be a pathological, malignant force that does harm to real human beings.

  • @kevintype What is my golden idol? The fact that I believe people should be free to do as they please with their own property and government should not steal it for corporate or private welfare?

    You clearly exposed yourself the other day for what you are. You might not attribute your beliefs with an ideology but those ideas surely resemble socialist ideology.

    You need to read some economic history. Not the trash taught in gov schools or spewed by media pundits on both sides.

  • Daniel, I am well aware of the Austrian school of economic theory. It does not work in the real world.

    Your golden idol promises freedom for everyone, but it ends in slavery for the majority. Exactly like socialism does, if it is followed as an ideology.

    You think I "exposed" something the other day, because for an ideologue like yourself, every conversation is a witch hunt. You smell witches all around you. Communists under the bed! Look out! Be afraid!

    Your scare tactics won't work on me.

  • @kevintype How is that a scare tactic?

    The mainstream economist and politicians make the claim that Austrian Economics does not work in the real world. Yet the only ones that seen the economic mess coming in 02 where Austrians. Can you explain how someone whose theories don't work can forecast from that far back? Some even wrote books on it before it happened.

  • Daniel, being able to accurately predict problems in the current system does not prove somebody knows the ideal replacement for that system.

    Karl Marx accurately predicted many of the problems that capitalism would have in the nineteenth century, but when it came to designing a system that he thought should replace capitalism, he could hardly have been more wrong.

    There is no guaranteed perfect system. That promise is where socialism and capitalism equally and miserably fail.

  • Capitalism does not guarantee or promise to be perfect. It is about freedom and offers more opportunity for individuals then any other system.

    Just because someone hasn't achieved in life doesn't mean its the systems fault.

    Karl Marx didn't understand a thing about economics. He referenced economic theories that were proven wrong even before he was alive. He did not predict anything. He made general statements and claims. He never predicted anything about capitalism

  • Austrians foretasted, explained how it will happen, and why it was going to happen in detail. They even named specific corporations.

  • Its always amazes me that people seek protection from perceived and real threats like corporations from a governmental body that could do much more harm to you and everyone else. You can choose not to buy from a fraudulent corporation and let it suffer but you are stuck with one government which has the monopoly of force.

    Human beings run governments just as they do corporations.

  • Daniel, it amazes me that people think fraud is the worst threat they'll ever face from a corporation.

    History shows that corporations can and do hire mercenaries to kill people, to enforce slave labor conditions, to prevent interference with the dumping of untreated toxic waste, and commit many other abuses far beyond mere "fraud."

    Corporations must be forced to serve a higher purpose than maximizing profits, just as governments must have checks and balances to restrain their power.

  • Government has a horrible history of protecting anyone from any abuse. Failure of their company and the interest of their investment and profits are far more important to them then a fine from government if they break a regulation.

    Regulations are create false trust. People are never really protected.

    Ultimately its the consumers choice and due diligence that does the regulation. Even that choice and due diligence is clouded by regulation. People never want to accept responsibility.

  • Daniel, people use many different ideological excuses to dodge responsibility. You and I are in agreement on that point.

    We cannot assume the government will fix everything. We cannot assume the market will fix everything.

    A constantly engaged, educated citizenry is required to make any of these systems work properly, no matter what mixture of market principles and government regulation they might involve.

  • Madoff was reported many times by consumers. Government regulation didn't stop it.

    What corporation had mercenaries enforcing slave labor in the united states that wasn't sanctioned by the government?

    Slavery was legal therefore enforce by law and gov.

    If this would happen in a country without slavery it would be illegal. That is criminal law not economic regulation. Force is monopolized by gov.