#254 - Batt-Cell with B&S run time tests part 3 of 3

[Texmurphy51]

What was the 1/4 turn adjustsment? HHO injection rate or Fuel mix?

Either way the amount of time increase is almost insignificant.

I worked on an experimental carburator in the mid 70s and I think that you will find that a small amount of vaporized water injection will have the same effect as the so called HHO you are using. I Believe that it is working somewhat like a steam engine & increases efficiency slightly.

[wcemichael]

You want a source of free energy? pilot lights for gas heaters have a thermalcouple this takes heat and converts it to power. I don't know how much power, but a few should produce quite a few volts to ad to a second HHO gen.

[moffett8]

It's possible you could get the Batt Cell up to 9 MMW and if you had a more efficient engine with overhead valves etc you could possible be 1.5 times where you are now. Something to think about.

Since you are the designer of the Batt Cell are you going to call your Lab the Batt Cave and when you put the Batt Cell in you car will you call it the Batt Mobile :-)

[probuildjohnson]

Well done. I not the smartest person around but i think need to upgrade ur engine alittle bit. Have u consider using a hotter spark plug?

[SalemTemple]

Very well done!! That is amazing, its been very exciting watching you develop it so far!!

[bill71183]

Dam good work Z, I've been watching your vid"s for quite some time now. I do have a question tho, did you modify the alternator you used in any way? only reason I ask is because I know that your standard alternator only works efficently (as it can anyway) at a certian RPM range and theres no pully system in place, direct drive, so its only spinning around 3K rpm, not only that but they only engage once the power supply drops to a certian voltage.just wondering if you took all that into account

[ElectroMagnumMan]

Zero, thanks for all your hard work! I have been following you for about two years and I am going to carry on your work in a bit of a different direction. I make a CNGPUMPcom home fueling station. This CNGPUMP fuels a CNG car with compressed natural gas from your home or business. In my uncoming videos we will be using a CNG car, and filling the tank at 3600psi with home made hydrogen (less the oxygen) no BOOM, hydrodgen stores well at 3600 and elimates the need for an HHO generaotor on board.

[KyleCarrington]

Congrats! Your hard work has paid off. I believe in the future of HHO. You and many in the HHO community have been working hard to improve efficiency and it seems you validate the necessity for an efficient cell. (I might add, it doesn't cost $40k+, doesn't need to get plugged in to the grid during peak demand periods and it likely reduces emissions as a bonus).

[jesse8941]

Zero! I have been following you for about 2 years, have watched ALL of your videos, and a lot of the JustinTV series. Thank you for your dedication. This is absolutly wonderful. YOU DID IT!! just want to commend you for all of you hard work, it is truly inspiring. So HHO proven. Whats next, back to the magnets ? Gonna go solve another energy problem?? Gonna go invent some solar wallpaper??? Kinetic energy for your home???? Well I'll be proudly watching and spreading the word! Keep it up Peace.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jesse8941 From the start I approached this experiment with the full expectation that I would disprove HHO really works and allowed the data to speak for itself. It spoke LOUDLY. I am as surprised by the results as other skeptics may be. Now I'm going to modify a motor to leverage the combustion properties of hydrogen and make it run on 100% water, without the Stanley Meyers hocus pocus.

And yes, I have a full set of new magnets for my indoor winter project so that's probably 1st.

[wiwizpot]

@ZeroFossilFuel its getting more exciting Z!!! thanks for your work... one question... when doing the run test with and without the HHO, did you tune the engine in both condition with the same RPM?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@wiwizpot Yes.

[captainwho1]

I would love to know how closed minded skeptics like Mike Allen of Poopular Mechanics would respond to this now. I've always felt that he and others like him have abused their influential positions in the way that they seemed to arrogantly proclaim that this was all a scam and the dream of foolish little minds. It would be fun to rub his nose in it a little, wouldn't it? Can you say corporate puppets?.....sure you can. Nice work!

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@captainwho1 That is SUCH an excellent question! I think someone should bring these tests to their attention. Don't you?

[captainwho1]

@ZeroFossilFuel I would do it only it's no fun to make comments on his online Popular Mechanics HHO debunking articles only to have all of them deleted like they did recently. There's no back and forth, no responses from him. If I had an email address........

[wiwizpot]

@captainwho1 it is not right to accuse somebody without solid proof... but i would like to gamble...YES!... corporate puppets!.... hehe..

[FreeEnergyNow1]

@captainwho1

How in the world do you think this is a real load test?

Loads must be at a constant, also with a filter capacitor/resister. Must be in grams, first gasolinel test, and then the HHO/Gasoline test.

This is a total joke, HHO is a total scam.

HHO burn at a rate of 4400m/s, Ic engines need slow burning fuels.

[captainwho1]

@FreeEnergyNow1

No offense, but your statement that "Ic engines need slow burning fuels" shows that you may have a lack of fundamental understanding in this area. The fuel that produces a faster flamefront is more desireable, all other aspects remaining equal, provided that it does not express any negative characteristics such as knocking which is a destructive combustion process. For maximum thermal efficiency we want to more closely approximate the "ideal otto cycle" wherein combustion...

[captainwho1]

....occurs in a nearly instantaneous amount of time at constant volume. I aint bullshittin you look it up. You shouldn't make accusations that someone is a scammer without having your facts straight. As far as this experiment being a "total joke", he did a damn good job for someone working in his garage. He never claimed it was a laboratory quality experiment. Did he prove feasibility?......YES!

[FreeEnergyNow1]

@captainwho1

Really!

Why do you think there is a implosion from HHO?

Its because it burn 4400m/s and cools before allow it to expand, That is why there a implosion and not a explosion. Your just an idiot....

HHO burn faster then gasoline, be an ass if you like.

But lets cut though the BS, show me your engine running on HHO in any efficient way!

Please make me eat my words, PLEASE!

You're a scam and all of your HHO friends are too!

[captainwho1]

@FreeEnergyNow1

Wow, you sound like a kook! Zero's experiment was concerning supplementing gasoline with 2H2 + O2 which has been done by a number of research institutions such as JPL, only he did it with onboard electrolysis. He did not run the engine only on 2H2 + O2. There's nothing to be gained by arguing with a kook...and um....a little book learning couldn't hurt ya. By the way, your a little confused about the whole implosion thing, if you think there is no explosion then how ....

[captainwho1]

....are so many engines being run solely on hydrogen? The implosion only occurs if and when enough heat is extracted after the explosion to allow the pressure and temperature conditions to be such that the water vapor is allowed to condense. This would not and does not happen within the cylinder of the engine during the power stroke of the engine.

[TedFnBuckle]

i dont have a clue what your saying, your video mic the lot are pure shit, ive seen a tone of others doing 100 times better than this, whats the big excitment ?

[lynel1985]

@TedFnBuckle none with proof to back it up.

[TedFnBuckle]

@lynel1985 true true

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@TedFnBuckle I do apologize for the poor quality. The last 3 vids are highlights from the live streaming at Justin. Audio inputs got severely overdriven and distorted from the high background noise level and the streaming service quality generally sucked that day.

To fully understand the significance of this video you need a bit of history. Go back and review videos 230-232, 234, 237, 238, 241-245, 252, 253.

I will be doing a recap video similar to 242 with all the final results soon.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@TedFnBuckle Bottom line is we're trying to show that HHO can increase the efficiency of the standard internal combustion engine even though we're taking power from that same engine to create the HHO. Skeptics say impossible. This video proves otherwise.

[mikepowers420]

Great work Zero.

Net gain, and that is without adjusting the the mix screw to lean out the motor...

Wow..

WOW..

My friend, you Rock.

Peace.

Mike.

[whitetrashgenius]

@mikepowers420 @mikepowers420 whitetrashgenius

1 day ago

Did you make any adjustments via the mixture adjustment screw when introducing HHO into the system?

ZeroFossilFuel

1 day ago

@whitetrashgenius Of course but never so far that it exceeded my target exhaust temps of 790*F or less./////////////////////////­/////////

so yes, he did make adjustments and leaned the mixture. Take that for what it is worth

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@whitetrashgenius Okay there whitetrashgeniASS, I unflagged one of your six identical comments as spam but I think you've exceeded your limit. Have a nice day.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@mikepowers420 No, adding HHO without adjusting mixture drops the exhaust gas temps like a rock. I did lean the mix with HHO and I state that in the video to restore the operating exhaust gas temp to around 780-790*F and leverage the HHO effect on combustion.

[SmartScarecrow]

very nice series Zero ... but I gotta tell ya' if you are really into this stuff, its a lot like watching paint dry ... Mrs Scarecrow fell asleep looking over my shoulder ...

To anyone else out there who might be interested, Zero gave a great executive summary of his tests and results on my live show ... check out h t t p "colon slash slash" ustream "dot" net "slash" recorded "slash" 10960460 ...

[SINCLAIRRESEARCH]

excellent ! well done

[UserName732492]

Hey Zero, this is great news. Now the thing is... This is a side-valve engine, right? Pretty inefficient to start with, but very interesting results nonetheless, don't get me wrong! I'd love to see you do the same tests (this is asking for a lot, I'm sorry :) ) with an OHV engine (preferrably B&S too, these China-knockoffs suck). Anyone got an OHV engine to much? :)

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@UserName732492 If I had the funding to do this full time I would run these added tests for you in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, they are VERY time consuming. I have to move on now and focus my spare time on the real end game, a motor mechanically optimized for HHO and quite possibly run on 100% water.

I have now demonstrated the method. Others now need to pick up this ball and run with it.

[truckcentral]

@ZeroFossilFuel Wish I lived closer. I have the perfect candidate for your next step. I eagerly await seeing this implimented into an actual car. I own a 1989 Ford F350with a 460 gasoline engine. From 0-5 gas stations in one trip. Zero I understand money is in short supply. I would love to help if you can gear your test around an older EFI engine for the masses.The newer cars do great. Some of us cant afford new and would like to help out our older ones do better. If I can help I will.

[uawwildbob]

lmao dude ! there is a big pile in the desert that I have to just laught at . anyone that has added HHO to they're car, knows that it works . Even small amounts do a little. More and more people are taking notice. I just wonder how much more cleaner the exhaust is on that small engine. I am shure you can smell the difference in your garage. the auto industry needs to dump the catalytic converters and use HHO . and guess wich one is cheaper and cleaner

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@uawwildbob Correct on all points. Thing to remember is efficiency counts. Low efficiency cells will clean the exhaust (I did smell the difference) but the energy equation is still negative. You need an efficient cell to get over the hump. Trouble is cats are maintenance free. Controllers like the Sq1 SIC will go a LONG way toward making HHO as maintenance free as it can possibly be.

[jylp4u]

Good job, I been waiting for someone to do this for years... Can you explain what just happened here and how it happened? Far as I know it was said to be a law of physics that you could never get out more than what you put it or something like that.. That being said, how did you just do that?

[uawwildbob]

@jylp4u he did not break the laws of physics . he is just getting more out of what was allready there. HHO allows more the gass to burn in the combustion chamber insted of in the exhaust and or the catalytic converter

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jylp4u Simple. I didn't do that. Think of it more as recapture of lost efficiency. Still can not exceed 100% total system efficiency but can certainly do better than the 15% we're starting at.

Even if I do get a motor to run on 100% water, it's still not more than 100% efficient. It will simply be the harnessing of energy potential we previously could not tap into.

[jylp4u]

@ZeroFossilFuel Oh, I see. I was thinking that you would lose more than you would gain because of the load put on the motor, however, it seem as if the gas only needs a little help and they work together to use what was once being wasted.. So, this would stand true on all cars so long as they are wasting energy. Is it possible that some cars are so efficient that this would not work and would lower mpg? Seems like the only way this wouldn't help is if the car is already efficient, right?

[lynel1985]

@jylp4u ICE's to date are around 30% efficient, chemcial conversion. In theory adding HHO would help even more as the ration of fuel>hho is lower. HHO would do more of the work BUT i think you would require considerably more HHO to get the benefit. After seeing this evidence i want to replicate Z's work as i already bought by fuel eff. car and have taken it from 11km/L to 14km/L by servicing and mappable tunning.

[luc59457]

@ZeroFossilFuel Test it with a load, you won't get much, if anything. You are suppose to test with Loads with this. You are not getting 100% efficient, you admitted it, so you are getting a loss either way, even when improving efficiency. Just to sum it all up for you, you will not even get close to the efficiency of a Pure Electric system, that were to run a vehicle, or a generator to get power back. When looking at everything, electric is about 35-40% efficient, gas, well under 20%.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@luc59457 I did test with several load conditions as well. Just didn't put that in the video. All the data will be presented at alt-nrg*org when I have it compiled. In a nutshell, I tested with no load, 1/3HP and 2/3HP passive load. Each of these conditions was tested with no HHO, 5A (335ml/min) HHO and 10A (670ml/min).

IN ALL CASES I RECORDED THE SAME NET GAINS. I too expected it would roll off under load but it did not. ROI was LINEAR ACROSS THE BOARD! You get back what you put in. Period.

[luc59457]

@ZeroFossilFuel I am very interested to see more on this, will keep looking.

[lynel1985]

@luc59457 watch his other videos'where Z explains his processes and data points for these tests. You will also find out that Z isnt claiming a 100% efficency, is is claiming that is able to get back 100% (or more) of the lost run time incurred from running his HHO cell. This makes his chemical>mechanical>electrical­>chemcial>mechanical converison process no worse to run then the chemical>mechanical process.

[lrover03]

Great stuff ZFF. Glad to see you're making good progress! Keep at it man. :))

[disneyjoe7]

You ROCK Zero.

[ThisMansOpinion]

I don't personally understand how your motor runs as I've just started watching your channel, but I get the general idea.

And I do know how to calculate net gain!

Incredible work, keep it up. I'm asking my parents for a bunch of permanent Nd magnets for Christmas so I can continue work on my alternator designs. I'll probably be posting videos in Feb, or May (depends on how tough my classes are next term). Once that is done, maybe we could work together.

Saw HP yesterday. This was way cooler

[christhesnaildriver]

Whoooooooohooooo! Go Zero!!!! I'm smiling from ear to ear now having just cheered loudly at those results (2:30 AM here in UK!!) Can tell you were rather pleased too! Knew you'd do it. Chris.

[jakopriit]

where does this extra energy comes from, then?

[lynel1985]

@jakopriit its inherent in the chemical engergy already used by the engine. This total system just allows more mechanical energy to be extracted from the chemcial energy used total. An ICE like this is maybe 15-20% efficient when considering chemical energy to mechanicl energy conversion. Z's setup isnt 110% eff. its just now mayb 22% total, which is an improvment, whcih is proof of concept. He now knows the path he needs to explore for greater gains

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jakopriit Mixing HHO with the gasoline acts as a catalyst to make the gasoline burn more completely INSIDE the combustion chamber where it can to work against the piston rather than burning slowly out the exhaust where all that energy is lost as heat. We're not creating energy. We're simply recapturing lost energy.

[najman100]

well done Zero

[Khepramancer]

Excellent work as usual ZFF... I always love it when the "impossible" suddenly becomes possible ; )

[sirHOAX]

we are right to say, from day one, and proof as of now. skeptics need not apply, been saying this from the start. promising, or should I say **REALLY** promising results! these standards can only improve, as a result of your study has been the most thorough to date. nice work. (ps- channel is back open for those who asked.)

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@sirHOAX Welcome back, bro!

[nannerin]

Right On! What a good feeling!

[prankmypants]

one question, if you put in a small amount electricity to make enough hho to get the motor started will it then run itself for ever so long as you keep topping up the water?

[lynel1985]

@prankmypants not yet.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@prankmypants I'm not there yet but that is the end game.

[HolisticPlantHealth]

>PROVEN< lol batman caption , great touch

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@HolisticPlantHealth LOL! Wasn't even going for that. Must be a Freudian slip.

[marthale7]

This is real science, no talk, just results. Thank you Zero for doing what hast to be done.

[flatl1n3]

You should make a device to harness the wasted exhaust heat to make hho instead of using the alternator.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@flatl1n3 Turbo driven alternator. Working on that too, in my "Spare time", LOL!

[flatl1n3]

@ZeroFossilFuel Just sayin', n/a engines lose 70% of the energy produced by gas to heat loss. Seems like your time would be better spent trying to scavenge that loss instead of adding another load to the engine. It wouldn't have to be turbo. BMW harnesses the exhaust heat with steam which turns a turbine.

[Quigon10101]

Thank you Z and congratulations.

I think HHO mixed with diesel for a diesel engine will give even better results. I have a biogas production well on my dairy farm and I feed the biogas (which is mostly methane @ about 2 psi) directly into the air intake of the diesel engine powering the standby electrical generator and its diesel fuel consumption becomes half.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@Quigon10101 Absolutely right. What I have shown here is the worst possible scenario.

[th86stone]

congrats ! great work !

your efficiency may improve more by opening that exhaust or relieving the pressure with a larger pipe

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@th86stone Not concerned with maximum efficiency from the ICE, only net gains from an identical system. Same exhaust system used throughout the tests.

[CarbideTip]

Good news Z.

[ChrisPCrunchy]

Well done Zero. Hows the garden going frozen over I bet.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@ChrisPCrunchy Not frozen yet. Still need to till under some mulch for the Winter.

[thisresearch]

Excellent! love seeing this cell providing the HHO mixture as an additive to the gasoline, one of the tests waiting to be done in our labs is using a fuel reformer with the hho feeding reformed gasoline + hho into an engine

Paul Pantone anyone?

[flahr1]

Maybe you can explain your results better. I don't see ~11 sec gain on a 11min run (about 1.5%) a big deal. I am not mocking you, I just don't get what you mean by 2:1

Thanks

[afdhalatifftan92]

@flahr1

Maybe it's caused by the distant traveled in those time.

Say at 100km/h, at 11secs, it's running at about 310m...

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@flahr1 Total power conversion efficiency (TPCE) from crankshaft to the energy value of the HHO in this test was 48%. 1.5% net gain IS a big deal when you consider that it's 101.5% of the baseline. 101.5/48=2.115. The actual ratio is 2.145 and was constant throughout the tests.

In earlier tests, TPCE of 34% got me >69%. From those tests I correctly extrapolated the results I got here. Extrapolate further, 65% TPCE (very doable) will yield >130% ROI. NOW THAT'S A BIG DEAL!!!

[water2gashawaii]

@flahr1 the reason this is a big deal, is many of the skeptics say that the extra energy put on the system by the alternator will only cause losses because HHO cannot produce more power, than the energy required to create it. Zero proves what many of us have known, is that there can be gains in fuel economy by mixing HHO with gasoline to increase the efficiency of the engine. When you consider the losses to the system to create the HHO, and the overall run time is increased, its good news.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@water2gashawaii <== And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who gets it.

[truckcentral]

Very nice. I am new to your test so I hope this has not already been covered. As with cars the better 'flow" as in exhaust, means more fuel efficnency.. Are you concrned about seeing how far you can push this as is.. or will you try to make this further say with the 3oz and HHO? I understand the baseline test and what youve done.. Can it go further? better exhaust.. better intake.. and so on? just a question for ya. Very nice work..

[truckcentral]

@truckcentral sorry I should have said " can mean better"

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@truckcentral same exhaust for all tests. Only way to show true net gains.

[lynel1985]

@truckcentral this expteriment like all these in the series is ONLY A PROOF OF CONCEPT Zero is not claiming the most eff.engine or anything, he basically made the worst possible example of a rig work, which means if you or somone else have the money to take it further, which is tunable engine mapping, sizable HHO cell while retaining a 5+mmw rating, there is now reason you cant get to work on a modern fuel efficient car.

[truckcentral]

@lynel1985 Oh and I undersdtand that and I couldnt agree more.. I only asked as to me in my limited knowledge on the subject (the reason I subscribed in the first place to see if it could be done and he truely seemed to give it by the book experiments that would make it hard to disprove and easy to replicate for the nonbelievers.) anyway to me it seems as though he proved it. I am sure there are more test to do. Just want to see this become comman place. I need it on my gas hog. :)

[KCM25NJL]

Does this mean that it's possible to store HHO and eventually run an Engine exclusively or almost exclusively on HHO....??? Correct me if I'm wrong, If you are in fact proving a 2:1 overall gain, then are we really talking about OverUnity?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@KCM25NJL no, not overrunity. 2:1 recapture of lost efficiency. Still can not exceed 100% total system efficiency but certainly better than the 15% we're starting at.

[jmsapinoso]

Hi Zero! IMHO, this desserphile guy would still debunk this, even if he never ever does any tests of his own. You don't have to prove anything to him. But you do prove that HHO system can AND WILL BE the future technology of the ICE. Maybe 100% on HHO fuel system is quite elusive to most of us but it is certainly achievable. If only we can produce enough of the gas ON BOARD.

I wonder how it would perform with the "mighty engine" of Raphial Morgado

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jmsapinoso Don't know. Send me one and I'll try it!

[jmsapinoso]

@ZeroFossilFuel :) just wondrin'. no offense meant. I really do respect you and the work you have been doing on this, and even getting ideas from them, like the spiral plates cell. I hope I have never offended you in any of my posts in YouTube. If I did, I'm very sorry.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jmsapinoso Relax. We all start somewhere.

[HHO4ALL]

@jmsapinoso

The thing to keep in mind is that desertphile is a hate monger, who creates controversy to get hits on his videos.

So he managed to read a few books and can spout theoretical equations... but without practical real world experience to back-up his rants, they are nothing more than opinions. Not even his own opinions, because he is a lemming and has to follow the commonly accepted theories. Scientific Laws are not set in stone and are subject to change.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@HHO4ALL He gets hits on his videos. He mentions mine. I get hits from his. Everyone wins.

Many of his attacks take aim at HHO enthusiasts who chant theory as fact based on little more than a belief system or casual observation rather than real world scientific method data gathering. He's not entirely wrong to demand evidence of the claims being made for HHO. Now we have it.

Besides, he's such an easy target it's fun taking shots at him.

[HHO4ALL]

@ZeroFossilFuel

True, but I blocked him all the same, because I don't want the kind of negative attention that he breeds.

There definitely needs to be scientific method in determining the efficiency of HHO devices, but I also don't think science has all the answers. Scientific Laws or Theories are in place as guidelines and I'm sure the scientists faced opposition when they released their test results. After all, It's human nature to discredit what we don't understand or cannot explain.

[HHO4ALL]

@jmsapinoso

The other thing skeptics don't realize is that their commonly accepted scientific practices are subject to a flawed approval process. That means that many things may be excluded from text books, because scientists were unable to replicate the results, or outside interests would not allow the findings to be published, for fear of what public knowledge could do to sales of associated products. Big Business determines what can be called truth.

[sirthickman]

Way to go Zreo!

Congratulations!

[whitetrashgenius]

Did you make any adjustments via the mixture adjustment screw when introducing HHO into the system?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@whitetrashgenius Of course but never so far that it exceeded my target exhaust temps of 790*F or less.

[czarwright]

Sweet Work , with all those runs the motor was up to temp good , You Proved it to me .

Great job Z =)

[ShowinYaHow]

So the Net gain is using the exact same amount of fuel, but helping out with HHO?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@ShowinYaHow Yes!