Ven. Sujato - Thich Nhat Hanh, A. Sumedho etc.

[hearts0ngs]

--> with the person or situation that is arousing it. It is when the anger has died down (hopefully without me acting out on it by yelling etc! ) that I can feel my heart soften with understanding, forgiveness, and / or love...I can remember somewhere that the Buddha said that mindfulness 'encircles and supports' all the other factors of the Path (or words to that effect)...

[hearts0ngs]

While also appreciating the Venerable Sujato's insights, I must add that in my experience, while love as a force does indeed cause anger to melt away, and is thus the remedy, that in the 'heat of the battle', in that moment when anger actually rushes up within me, only mindfulness can save me. If I try to feel love in that moment it is hollow and fake (for me). I focus on 'just feeling' the state of anger ( ie where is it in the body, or mind? how does it feel within me?) and apply patience -->

[angellicvoices]

is he aussie? he's got an aussie accent.

[jbwhitebird]

so its ok if i choke the bishop?

[BarbarraBay]

I could be said the monk has used one teaching from thousands to say: "The Buddha taught this one way to remove anger".

Mindfulness in Buddhism is always co-joined with applied wisdom (sampajanna). Without wisdom, to remove anger with love (metta) can also be difficult.

Thinking "I must love" can be equally as unskilful and inaffective as "I must not have anger".

[ourlegacy]

Isn't truth universal? How do you mean by you are more of an upekkha man?

[ourlegacy]

[cont4]

Logic and reason based on common experiences and reality, shared cross-disciplinary meditative experiential evidence, and the Satipatthana sutta, independently affirm and validate that mindfulness is the path of all skillful means, the purification of beings, in eradicating anger and all mental defilements.

[ourlegacy]

[cont3]

The Buddha himself tells us in Satipatthāna Sutta that the one and direct path for the purification of beings, for overcoming sorrows, for the realization of Unbinding (Nibbana) or the universal remedy is the four foundations of mindfulness (not metta or many skillful means).

[ourlegacy]

[cont2]

unavailable, weak, and often comes too late because of both the lack of and persistent cultivation of skillful means of mindfulness, or one would not be angry or feel anger, metta does not and cannot fight off anger without mindfulness. And since metta and all skillful means, including all human capacity and potentiality, are cultivated from the skillful means of mindfulness, metta does not and cannot eradicate (maybe suppress but not rule out completely) anger but mindfulness can.

[ourlegacy]

[cont1]

knowledge that loving-kindness is not a distinct skillful means apart from the discipline of mindfulness because without persistent cultivation of the four foundation of mindfulness in essence removing mental defilements like aversion, craving, ignorance, anger, and etc., one cannot sense or experience sufficient metta let alone use it. In an anger state or a mentally defiled or deluded state, because the abstract metta intended to fight off anger in actuality does not exist or is

[BarbarraBay]

Whilst not reading all posts, I must agree with Our Legacy.

The Venerable Ajahn is using the word 'mindfulness' very loosely here.

Whilst his lecture is a very wise lecture regarding the problem of lust and the problem of repression and find a middle way, the Ajahn has spoken inaccurately at the end in regards to mindfulness and "what the Buddha said".

The Buddha spoken on numerous ways to overcome anger in probably hundreds of different discourses.

[ourlegacy]

Although metta can be a capacity used as a skillful means for the highest purpose at certain level of attainment and mental purity, loving-kindness is foremost a natural state of being or one of the four sublime abodes, brahma-vihāra, and a consequence of persistent cultivation of the four foundations of mindfulness and not a skillful means. In any case, most people who meditate (or practice Qigong and martial arts with meditation as a foundation) with some fluency have the experiential

[kiwikiswahili]

them's some loooooong sentences brother

[ourlegacy]

Do long sentences or analytical truths have more significance?

[kiwikiswahili]

i dunno, i guess it depends. but i think shorter concise sentences are more effective in communicating an idea.

[ourlegacy]

I wasn't sharing effective communication but the way to uproot mental defilements for continuous loving-kindness and the purification of beings.

[ourlegacy]

Do you wish to communicate your actualized knowledge on metta with respect to the purification of mind as I have done?

[kiwikiswahili]

I'm more of an upekkha man myself.

I guess the point i was trying to make was that it can be kinda hard to follow such long sentences. And i assume (a bad habit of mine) that your intention was for other people to understand what you're saying.

I dunno, i just remember hearing at a retreat that one of the aspects of sound Dhamma was that it can be made available, accessable and understandable to a layman.

please pardon my clumsy choice of words...

[ourlegacy]

Also, I wasn't communicating a singular idea. I responded to several opinions expressed in the video in context of the descriptive note of Dhammatube as concisely as I could with all limitations.

[kiwikiswahili]

i guess i should say that the reason i made my initial comment was not intended as any kind of attack.

you clearly have a lot of knowledge and experience with the Dhamma. that could help deepen/strengthen the practice of others if it was phrased a little less academically.

[ourlegacy]

Appreciate the feedback. I'm not monastic or academic but only wished to share the error (or incomplete truth) in representing metta as a skill (reliable or effective) rather than a restorative state (fool-proof) from continuous mindful practices in eradicating (vs hold-off) mental defilements. The differentiation is important since it can be validated by the accounts of others, my own practice, and what the Buddha taught (the topic of the video) in Satipatthana Sutta.

[ourlegacy]

A finer inter-connecting phenomenon experienced or encountered, which I may or may not have clearly conveyed previously, is that the eradication of mental defilements also means that one is protected from, unaffected, or untouched by them, such as anger, hatred, temptations, etc., so there is no need to combat against either the internal or external temptations, if one observes and practices the four foundations of awareness properly, diligently, and continuously.

[kirk7524875248]

Ven. Sujato, or Anyone,

Where in the Pali Suttas does the Buddha address whether or not the four elements actually exist outside of the consciousness, or are they completely a Bi-product of our consciousness? I'm really confused about this. Do the four elements really exist? Or are they also just a product of our consciousness? Does anything exist outside of our consciousness? I know what the Mahayanna suttras say. But what about the Pali Suttas? Does everything just dissappear? Meta!

[BarbarraBay]

For Kirk. Consciousness is another element. All things are elements. If your mind can see in this way, it will also see the emptiness or selflessness of all things. To see all things as 'empty of self' is the way of the Buddha. The see all things as elements is also the way of the Buddha because being merely elements is being empty of 'self.' However, now you are infatuated with consciousness, thinking it will be reborn, as though it is 'you'. Consciousness is just another element.

[kirk7524875248]

Ven. Sujato, please read Bhikku Bodhi's footnotes, as well as Thick Nhat Han, who both state that the "Tongue pressing against the mouth, sweating, etc." is misplaced in the Suttas. This was when the Buddha was experimenting, trying different techniques which Didn't work! That was one of them. He later realized that it was the Middle Path that works, Not the violence of the Tongue pressing against the mouth, the sweating, etc. But I really want to study under you! Well Learned!!!! Meta!!!!

[BarbarraBay]

In Vitakkasanthana Sutta, Buddha used the "pressing" technique in association with other techniques after he had discovered the Middle Way.

There is a different between when Buddha used this technique before enlightenment and when he recommended it after enlightenment in combination with other skilful means.

[MuditenaCittena]

Ajahn - Right on man! Tell it like it is ... This is truly Buddhism in daily life!

[adehmark]

Please give us more of Bhante Sujato.