I don't care much for Christian or atheist worldview...as long as people remain rational. Using statements like "i believe X is bad because God said so" is irrational. Justification for bad vs good should only be derived from secular reasonings.
I guess I don't understand how there can be more than one athiestic worldview. If you don't believe in God, then you obviously can't use God as an explanation for how the world and everything in it came to exist; therefore, you have to put your faith in things like evolution and the big bang, which is what Piper is getting at here. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just putting my opinion out there.
You are definately inspiring...There should be more preachers like you, bc more people would go to church..Its depressing to see that so many people hate the Bible and spit on each others beliefs....Thank you for these videos, they've helped me and many others along the way.
How does matter become aware of itself? Neurological functions are biological and observable, but awareness of those functions is not. If one posits that matter is born of awareness rather than the other way around this makes more sense. This is coming from an atheist btw.
@attitudinous A physicist is the atoms way of considering itself. Awareness is directly related to physical properties (as far as our empirical method has revealed so far)
i think christianity is a personal thing with God, so everyone kinda has his own ass? if you're not gonna save your own ass, then no one will help you.
what im pointing is, your life is your own responsibility, its unnecessary to criticize people in what their beliefs are.
this theory is so resoundinly stupid, taking science to make his science fiction seem possible, nit picking things out of a textbook to make him seem scientific
There is no singular atheist "world view". A--theism describes a position of no belief in gods. It doesn't begin to suggest what beliefs an atheist might have. An atheist is not defined by what they lack belief in. Atheism is not a world view just as not believing in space aliens or fairies is not a world view.
@sweetsweatyfeet What do you mean there is no truth? That's what you're saying. I would have thought that a critical thinking person like atheists would tend to have an assumption that there is a truth and only one truth. At least to get you out to the reallity that there is no God. You must assume that there is the truth and that is what the atheist worldview is suposed to be when he talks about it.
@desasterz Please tell me where I stated there is no truth?---because I can't begin to see how you extrapolated that from what I wrote. Atheism is simply a position on the subject of god belief. it's not a philosophy, has no tenets or doctrines and doesn't address the subject of what IS true. The subject that deals with validation of knowledge (IE, truth) is epistemology. If there were no truth I wouldn't be typing this response on a computer.
@desasterz Atheism is not a "world view". It's nothing more than a position about belief in god. You too are an atheist with respect to the gods of other religions you don't believe in--Thor, Zeus, Krishna, etc, etc. I am the same except I have one more god on my "do-not-believe" list---the Christian god.
I find rather strange when a Christian tries to define atheism for an atheist. How would it be if I defined Christianity for you?
@sweetsweatyfeet Well, Atheism is that there was no God and that everything we see started out of matter and inanimate objects. That's what a God is right? Conversly to that.. And I am not an atheist if I beleive in God, no matter if I deny some of them and hold to one. And for goodness sake, I don't need to hold a position in order to understand it. I can very well meditate on what "that" could mean if it was true as it relates to life, humans and our values. And with Atheism I certainly can.
@desasterz "Atheism is that there was no God and that everything we see started out of matter and inanimate objects"
No. First of all, atheism means not having a belief that there is a God. There's a difference. Second, ideas about what everything we see is and where it came from aren't part of atheism. While everyone has a duty to try to account for the world, atheism isn't a package deal where those answers are included for you. One could be an atheist an have different beliefs about that.
@sweetsweatyfeet Lack of a belief affects the way you view the world. If I don't believe in economic reform I have a view distinct from those who do believe in economic reform. You are correct that atheism is not a particular belief set, but it is a particular range of beliefs, namely, all belief systems which lack belief in God may be considered atheist worldviews or belief systems. This subset is distinct from the whole set of all belief systems and worldviews. Also consider norms. Unique.
@TheJohnVandivier The dismissal of god theories (atheism) leaves open every other possible theory---a virtually unlimited number of explanations without deities. The range and scope of explanations are so vast, they cannot be clumped together as a "world view". The term "world view" is vague and nebulous, I will not use it.
One can even believe in the supernatural and still be called an atheist. A Buddhist has no god belief but does believe in the supernatural. He's technically an atheist.
@sweetsweatyfeet Dude I don't care if you believe that it's ok to jump of a 50 foot cliff headfirst without a helmet - believe what you want, reality will filter out your idiocy. I'm trying to do you a favor.
Even numbers are an infinite set, does that mean we can't clump them together and distinguish them from odd numbers? Come on bud, get real.
@sweetsweatyfeet I would argue your point that Atheism doesn't begin to suggest beliefs an atheist might have. Certainly it can't precisely define their beliefs, just as christians do not believe the same way about everything. If someone is an atheist however i would expect them to be pro gay marriage, pro abortion, ect. Why would they have reasons not to be? certainly not any religious ones.
@Asterixarcher Given the Christian propensity for labeling people, I'm not surprised you would feel that way. Atheism addresses only the question of belief in deity(s). What else any given atheist believes is subject to cultural and philosophical influences and personal reflection---and it varies greatly from person to person.
Even the Bible says man is made of mud! Haven't this guy ever heard of abiogenesis? This is the absolute dogmatism and arrogance of religion that will continue to push me further away from it.
@Solan0922 "science is built with theories" correct.
These are drawn up from observations. They are then tested by experiment and used to see if they can predict real world bahviour. The theories are then modified. Slowly but surely those theories become so solid we can use them for the basis of sound belief. However they remain "theories" as they are always open to scientific scrutiny.
Isn't that more intellectually honest than the bible?
a total quack. I really hope one day people like Piper will see the error in their ways. Don't get me wrong, there are morons who are atheists and theists. However, this guy doesn't only think a god is real and true, he thinks his god is true, and all other are wrong. What a quack.
Mr. Piper seems unfamiliar with atheist arguments. An atheist does not claim to know what created are universe but does not believe the answer from a 2000 year old book has the answers or even informs good moral choices. An atheist believes in what they can prove, everything else is pure speculation.
@JunkmanJim Atheists and their dogmatic ways.........i question God sometimes, and sometimes i even have doubts about some things when it comes to God, but soon or later I'll get my questions and doubts answer. Atheists on the other hand do not question anything about their beleives, yet they think christian are the ones with their heads in the sand???? Jesus instructed each Christian to his enemy and pray for them......what kind of GOD say something like that??? body slam 'em i get..but pray?
I am quite open to new evidence and arguments. I would be willing to bet that you are unfamiliar with how the Bible was written and who wrote it. Just do a little skeptical reading, it will surprise you.
Jesus instructed Christians to love their enemy but God killed thousands of people, including an entire a generation of first born males. Who would you kill for God? According to the Bible he commanded the deaths of many, entire cities. The Bible is simply bronze age superstition.
@JunkmanJim bronze age superstition, lol.....like i said y are athesist so dogmatic about their "beleives" you are functioning in faith more than a Christian is....i'm suppose to die daily to my flesh(i'll explain if you don't kknow what i mean by flesh), sometimes i mess up and i don't die to self like i should....God was on a mission in the old testament(JESUS) had he not accomplish that mission(JESUS).....................WOW, I can't even imagine....anyways
@JunkmanJim "The Bible is simply bronze age superstition." True. It is so sad that we remain in its grip.
Check out Evid3nc3's videos.
There is a link on my channel. They are truly inspirational and outstandly produced. He is a very articulate ex-Christian who is making a series of videos about his deconversion. It includes several on how the bible evolved from a polytheistic text.
If there are any christians out there that want to understand Atheism - check out his site.
People make sense. We just all come from different perspectives. How can one finite person listen to another finite person try to logically reason out the existence of an infinite God? One subjectively comes from a relationship with God, whom he's in love with and by which he reasons the rest. I'm not going to pretend to be atheist but i cant help trying to empathize the attitude that of I don't believe in a God cause it helps me when He's nonexistent, that would be logically insane.
If you presuppose "Life" then that is all you have to go on. If you look at 99%+ of all your surroundings you find inanimate matter. Is it the chicken or the egg? Ultimately, it is the argument of First Cause. If the First Cause needs no cause, existence itself needs no explanation either. It is self-caused and self-explanatory.
If the maker needs no maker, it simply is the great "I Am"...being both the ultimate answer and no answer at all.
A god who is pleased by blood sacrifices appeals to reason?
A god that would curse the earth (Gen 3) because of the misbehavior of two naked teenagers appeals to reason?
Christians are not reasonable people.
You my like personal origins and ends better than impersonal origins and ends but you have a long way to go if want to convince me that you are reasonable in doing so.
This guy isn't a scientist but he sets himself up as the Judge of All Science to tell us which sciences are valid and which are not?! Wow--what hubris.
John piper contradicts himself here, we wouldn't have life without matter. That's like asking "what came first, the chick or the egg?" the egg of course..It's typical science, you start from the simplest form of life and work up to complex forms of life such as humans
@UrukEngineer Is the Big Bang THEORY a fact, or is it a theory? Atheists draw conclusions from science as to explain how the world works. But what science is really doing is explaining how God likes to do things! Praise that people are spending so much time and energy trying to find out how God like to make the world work, but I just wish people recognized that that is what they were doing! I love you all!
@JGottshalk9 The Big Bang is a theory. Like any scientific hypothesis it is drawn up from experiment and observation and, if it is the best-fit, it is considered as the accepted working model...until something comes along that is better. That's how science works.
Religion puts forward an explanation for everything, that's it, full stop. It does not accept evidence that plainly proves the religious thypotheis to be wrong. It is eternal and unquestionable. It is a bar to progress.
@Rooney10ManU1 Are you THE Rooney of Man U? If so, kudos mate.
You may be a footballing giant, but you miss the point of my argument.
Science and religion are not on a spectrum of belief. They are different ways of looking at the world. The religious view fixes "truths" as eternal (eg god created the world and man - end of story). The Scientific view observes nature, proposes a theory, experiments, observes and, if necessary changes theory.
@JGottshalk9 It is an interesting perspective you have mate...that scientists are "explaining how God likes to do things". ......
There just is no reason for there to be a god. Slowly science is pushing back the boundary of knowledge, as it moves back we never seem to "uncover god". He/she is just not there mate.
But, unlike most of the religious nutters I find on YouTube, you seem a peaceful loving soul - so peace to you mate.
@UrukEngineer Think about this: What if there is no distinction between science and God (the natural and the supernatural)? If God created everything (I know that you may not believe this, but it is important for my stance! lol) then we can only conclude that He does not see a distinction between the two. Science is not designed to "uncover" God, because that would mean that He is constrained to man-made parameters. It is rather a study of Him. Science is the search for truth that relates
@JGottshalk9 If I understand you correctly, your proposition accepts scientific explanations of the universe and of the evolution of animals as correct. Then says that this was what he intended, science is just a “study of god”.
It is an interesting proposition, but there are a number of problems with it. What is most interesting is that it leads to a signifiant problem for christians…
@UrukEngineer to what we can see or apply to math. If we could fully understand God, then perhaps God would become science. But if we had full understanding of God, wouldn't He cease being God? Not trying to criticize you, just wanted to present some things for you to think about! Its fun to discuss things without people from either side of the argument reverting to petty name calling and such!
@JGottshalk9 …It completely contradicts the bible. It allows humans to “reinterpet” key books. Why stop at Genesis? Why not reinterpret the resurrection as that he came back to life in the imagination of his followers. Does that not then undermine the whole basis of christianity?
And yes, it is more pleasant to debate this civily. Peace.
@UrukEngineer While science does attempt to explain things, it does not always get it completely correct every time. But to give credit where it is due, I would say science gets it right more times than not. As far as evolution and the resurrection go, there is no way for science to test this and come to a factual conclusion. A study of God does not necessarily mean a clear cut definition of what God is. It is a study that humbly attempts to explain...
@UrukEngineer Im not trying to change your mind. Philip Yancey said "no one ever converted to Christianity because they lost the argument". I just want to present to you an alternative way of looking at science, and try to humbly convey that science and God are not on opposite ends of the belief spectrum!
@JGottshalk9 You are right, I am sure neither of us would change our minds over the 500 characters YouTube allows in a response.
I do however totally agree with you when you say "science and God are not on opposite ends of the belief spectrum" - although probably not for the reason you think.
Science and god (religion) are not on a spectrum at all. They are wholy different world views. Scientific theory changes as facts emerge. Religion stays constant despite the facts.
@firedude384 Have you heard of the Scientific Method?
Systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
Can you see how that constrasts to religious method?
Write in a book, amend the book over hundreds of years to suit your political views. Declare the amendments as devinely inspired. Torture those that disagree.
@UrukEngineer the problem with athiests though is that they want to put god into a test tube,well sorry u cant,u cant put emotions in a test tube but u know they are real.think
@UrukEngineer ok but the earth had different amount of carbon back 6milloin years ago, as ud say,how can u get an accurate test? and plus , science has no found out that we can make fossil fuels from petrified wood,and it doesnt take millions of years
@firedude384 Because the half-life of carbon-14 is 5,700 years, it is only reliable for dating objects up to about 60,000 years old. This far exceeds the biblical estimate of 6,000 years for the Earth. However, the principle of carbon-14 dating applies to other isotopes as well. Potassium-40 is another radioactive element naturally found in your body and has a half-life of 1.3 billion years. So it helps is get in the right ball park. Does that help?
@UrukEngineer You say that "Atheists draw conclusions from facts" but how can you prove the world started through matter? You can't. You can say all you want "science proves this" but it's as this man just said "you are only guessing". You don't truly know how the world started you can only guess because you weren't there to begin with, which means your argument and beliefs are nothing but a guess. You and no other atheist in this world can prove how the world started so you guess how it did.
@SmokingTheologian "but how can you prove the world started through matter?"
You miss the point.
Science works by making observations. A theory is then postulated to explain those observations. It is then tested by experiemt and more observations. Either the theory is then modified to fit better with observations or a new one produced. Over time some theories hold good against such a weight of observation that they are considered to approximate "fact".
@UrukEngineer True, just because there is no scientfic proof doesn't mean "God made it", but that is not what I'm arguing about. I was arguing if atheist believe in facts or if they just guess the whole thing. And I did just prove that atheists don't believe in facts but on guessing because of what you just said "Just because there is not conclusive scientfic proof". Because you said that there is no conclusive scientfic proof means you don't know, which also means you believe in a "guess".
@SmokingTheologian You need to understand what is meant by "scientific theory" - it is not the same as "guess". Gravity is a scientific theory, it is not a guess. The Electro-magnetic Force the manipulation of which is the basis of your PC is a scientific theory, not a guess. There is a lot of evidence to support the Big Bang theory, it is not a guess.
How do you know the god you worship is christian. How did you know he isn't the muslim god...or Zeus, Thor, Baal etc. Evidence or guess?
@UrukEngineer Yet again you got it wrong. In my last comment I said nothing about "scientific theory" and what I thought you meant by it, I was arguing if atheist believe in facts or in a guess.
To answer your question about if I am following the right "god". If I were to argue and tell you how I know I am following the right God, you would just think of me as an even greater fool than what you do now. Why? Because you have no desire to understand why I know. You will ignore whatever I say.
@SmokingTheologian You said "Because you said that there is no conclusive scientific proof means you don't know, which also means you believe in a 'guess'." This is not true. Atheists vary, but most have a worldview based on evidence-based, scientific hypotheses. You are right you did not say anything about scientific theory - you should have.
You are wrong, I am interested to know how you selected the christian god. I will not ignore what you say, but I will probably challenge your logic. :)
@UrukEngineer I'm glad that you are will to listen, though this will be my last comment. The reason I believe in God instead of another god is because every religion (except Christianity) believes in a work base salvation. But God says that I'm in no way, nor could I ever be, good enough to gain salvation. By Gods standards alone I'm a lier, thief, adulterer, and even a murder. But He has saved me no matter what sin I've committed because He is so sovereign. I've enjoyed our conversations later.
@SmokingTheologian You are, in effect, "Atheist" about all other religions except christianity. I just go 1 god further. You aren't dirt, you aren't a worthless sinner - don't let them tell you that you are. You are an intelligent human who deserves respect and to take their place in community of man.
@UrukEngineer I've been reading the post-threads of your comments. I've had a few conversations with atheistic guys and its just really simple. The evidence of man and will always be irrelevant to the explanation of God. It's just like asking what the gender of an unborn baby is. The only evidence an atheist will ever see, is when they lay their weapons down and surrender to the Lord. Then the evidence and truth thus was unable to fathom will now be clear. I'm not trying to sound like I know it
@wacdaddy22 It is not "the evidence of man"..it is just *evidence*.
And none of it supports a belief in a supernatural being.
By all means carry on believing in god without evidence. Religious faith is, afterall, belief DESPITE all evidence to the contrary.
However, my only real concern is when that belief leads you to act in a way harmful to yourself and others. I am sure you don't need me to point out the appauling behaviour religious belief inspires.
@UrukEngineer Exactly, any type of evidence IS evidence of Mankind. You're not catching my pass. The only way someone can be harmed by my beliefs or relationship with the Lord, is simply because they're offended of the evidence how so God has worked in my life. I know for a fact the Lord is real and his Holy Spirit is, but this evidence is no "proof" to your equation. To answer your question about the Rapture, I seriously laughed out loud. The rapture that was suppose to happen is a big joke.
Respond to this video... noone knows when Judgement day is coming, not even the angels. So no i'm not dissapointed about that, sir. I really wanted to ask every follower of Mr. Camping, how they felt.
I've been reading your debates with other Christians on a number of Mr Piper's videos with great interest. It is very clear you are a well educated man. Please search what I have enclosed in quotation marks below :)
@toocool2beat I have come across Lee Strobel’s work before. The video is part of a “Faith under Fire” series in which he picks up on topics from his book “The Case for a Creator”
When I was looking into his arguments I found a great article on the web. Google “Another Case Not Made: A Critique of Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator (2005)”
His strongest points are made where science does not have a clear answer (abiogenisis and the Big Bang). But this does not prove "god did it".
@UrukEngineer serious question. are you an atheist? if so can you explain to me --- because of an atheist's unbelief in God do they believe human kind has an ultimate purpose for living? Are we only here to live and then die? wouldnt that believe of no consequences after death contribute to lawless or a lack of moral living?
@aferg76 "Atheism" says nothing about what anyone believes. It just means that they have not been made aware of any evidence for the existence of a supernatural being(s), therefore belief in them is unreasonable. That's it, full stop ("period" in US).
This means that when it comes to "how" did the universe and man get here, Atheists see a perfectly cogent rationale in scientific explanations.
In this sense it is an illogical question to ask "why are we here"...however...
@UrukEngineer Why do you make your own "purpose in life" if you think you're just a bunch of chemicals and matter that evolved without having a purpose? Why should you make then? Only for more "matter" to remember you? That's nonsense. Why do you want to be ethical? What would "matter" care if you're not wthical? How can you even think, though, if you're only matter? If you can think and talk and you're matter, why don't you ask a rock what's his purpose in life?
@aferg76 ...most Atheists are also Humanists. This means that they seek to live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity. They take responsibility for their actions and base their ethics on the goals of human welfare, happiness and fulfilment. They seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves, individually and together.
Are you honestly saying that without a god YOU would murder and rape. Imagine it, be honest?
@UrukEngineer I wouldn't call a "fact" to something theorical. NO ONE has ever proven that non-life can create life EVER, and won't. Not even if you could create a cell with all its parts and all what's in it it'd move, why? Because its matter, matter is energy but not life. Atheists are irrealistic, they think they know a lot but they really know nothing about the beginning of all. They believe that something could have happened and even that is impossible to the greatest extent.
1. To be an Atheists just means that no one has presented you with sufficient credible evidence to believe in a god(s). That is all it means. By definition Atheists don't think they "know a lot" Contrast that to the religious who think they DO have the answer to everything - god.
2. I have never claimed it is a "fact" that abiogensis is possible. However I have seen credible evidence to propose how it might have occured. The jury is still out on that
@UrukEngineer So? Atheists normally believe in Abiogenesis and that kind of things because its the only way to not believe in God, and that's what they "have to think" that began life, if not, they'd have to believe in God.
@davegamemaster No mate, I feel you are missing the point about Atheism. An Atheist DOES NOT have to believe in anything. They use sceptical inquiry and examine the evidence, making up their own mind. Don't be afraid to admit that you don't know; something may just be "not proven".
There are some fantistic videos by a YouTuber called Evid3nc3 (link on my my channel). I recommend that you check them out. If nothing else, it will allow you to make a stronger argument for your views.
@UrukEngineer K, you've said that you are atheist because no one has convinced you of the existence of God, but have you seen all the evidence against evolution? If you're an atheist then you'd see the evidence and "make your own mind" of it as you said. I think that one of the best arguments about the existence of God is that there's no better explanation because everything else is impossible. Atheism means "without God", but if you check all evidence you'd see that evolution is impossible.
@UrukEngineer And if evolution is impossible then there's no better explanation than God. You've said that we say that "we have all answers" - God. And that's kinda true, but that's the answer to all that we can't explain yet, but we can explain why evolution isn't true and to many other things.
@davegamemaster I think you picked the wrong scientific theory to "trash". Evolution by natural selection is one of the strongest theories in science. Nothing has been found to disprove it. I have seen many "evidences" all of which were epic fails.
Besides, even if Evolution (by N S) were to be wrong, it does not mean that you can say "oh in that case it must have been god that did it"
@UrukEngineer Evolution by natural selection is one of the most stupid theories I've seen, if you want we can have a debate in private about it, but I don't have much time right now so please don't wait for an immediate answer. I say God did it because I've had a personal experience with Him so I know He exists and because there's NO WAY found that can make amino acids form proteins in nature, and if there are proteins in nature they would be useless for a cell if after some...(to becontinued)
@UrukEngineer ...After some hundreds of years without being used in a cell because it'd mix with useless amino acids that make it useless for a cell. An about Evid3nc3's videos, I haven't seen many beecause of lack of time but I saw a few and found some problems which I want to talk with him and if you want with you too. I want to have debates and that kind of stuff but I want to share information etc. but some atheists don't like nor want that and a debate without that its meaningless for me.
@UrukEngineer How should I interpret that answer? Some ways apply in this case. Like how could you help with having a debate, or preparing for it by reading or watching something, or that you don't know what to answer, etc.
@davegamemaster What exactly was the fact/point/issue that you either did not understand or for which you had a rebutal that you wanted to state. How can I help address that fact/point... etc?
@UrukEngineer You meant "what did you didn't understand of the theory of evolution?" or "what did you didn't undertand about evid3nc3's videos?"? Remember we were talking about two issues. I wanted to say "evolution is impossible" and "I have seen some problems with Evid3nce3's videos."
Are you aware of the principles behind the scientific theory of Evolution by Natural Selection? If you disagree with it, what evidence or fact caused you not to believe that it gives a sound explanation for the diversity of life that we see today?
@UrukEngineer I'm aware of some principles, I don't know if there are more. And there are lots of evidence that made me not to think its true. One argument is that life can't come from non-life and not even the BEST scientist can say that's not true, if they think its possible, then you should apply that technique to a rock or a book or even something "easier" as a dead animal or a dead human.
@davegamemaster The scientific case for abiogensis is still not fully formed. Put that aside for one minute.
Once life got started, E by NS fits all the data we have about the evolution of species from the earliest forms of life to those alive today. What evidence has caused you not to believe that it does?
@UrukEngineer The impossibility of amino acids to form in nature that are usefull in a cell, the fact that no one has proven that amino acids form proteins in nature, the EXCESSIVE amount of information in the DNA, the nucleic acids and the proteins that obey their "orders," the fact that the celular membrane is made of fat and fat is only made by LIVING CELLS (and its too complex btw), the impossibility of creating a cell simple enough to be made by nature and much more.
@UrukEngineer Oh, srry. The fact that we haven't seen an animal evolving from fish to amphibian, the absurdity of scales becoming feathers, the fact that no known animal has ever been seen having babies of other kind (like fishes giving birth tadpoles), the fact that whales don't have remains of legs, the fact that babies are not born with gills, the lack of transitional forms (in all stages), the fact that jellyfishes are more amazing than fishes and not less, and much more.
@davegamemaster Evolution does not work like that. Wolves don't give birth to dogs. A wolf gives birth to a wolf. However, over time, LONG periods of time, there are subtle changes. In the wild, these changes may favour one group over another (e.g. white coat in winter for camouflage). Those animals go one to pass their successful genes to their offspring. Eventually they become a different species. Scientists have directly observed new species evolving.
@UrukEngineer Have you ever noticed that there is little difference between wolves and dogs? Even a 5 year old kid would tell you that wolves are similar to dogs, but they would tell you that wolves are very different than birds, or than crocodiles or fishes or whatever. I never said "wolves didn't change into dogs" I said "reptiles didn't change into wolves," well, not exactly like that but its the same thing. The fact is that no reptiles give birth birds or anything else than reptiles.
When you campare parent and child they are the same species. Only after a very long time are the child and great, great, great, great.....grandparent from different species. This is why it takes time to observe speciation (successive offspring of one species gradually evolving into another).
Humans are not descended from chimps we share a common ancestor with them
@UrukEngineer Then you think that frogs can become humans? All transitional forms I've seen are fake or are not transitional forms. And if it takes too long to evolve, then how come humans or "almost-humans" didn't paint anything or learn anything or even carve anything for at least more than a million years? That's just stupid. And another thing, how come scientists can't prove the beggining but they claim they know what's next? BTW, even the fossils are evidence against evolution.
@davegamemaster "Then you think that frogs can become humans?" No, that was not what I said. Was my point unclear?
Fossils only support Evolution by NS not creationism. Don't take my word for it, use Wiki to look up "Transitional fossil" read it for yourself and make up your own mind.
@UrukEngineer if your implying that there is no god because of evolution well thats a serously flawed logic evolution is testable but its not the same thing to jump to such conclusions and i dont really want to take your word for it because people are biased and the fact that evolutionists have no clue on multiple fields of study that involve god and evolution is a completely different study that cant state an origin to begin with
@matrixlone No, I am not using Evolution by Natural Selection to disprove the existence of god(s). All E by NS proves is that there is no need to "invoke" a supernatural power to explain the diversity of species today.
The point I was making to davegamemaster was that frogs don't become humans etc. The creatures we have all evolved from (with few exceptions) are not present today.
As for abiogenesis, science is moving ever closer to a strong hypothesis. God is in retreat ;)
@UrukEngineer Why do you say "God is in retreat"? We don't need too many evidence to disprove evolution. "Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear? But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision." Psa. 59:7-8. That's why He's "in retreat," because evolution its simply laughable. I mean, you can't take it seriously. God can hear what you say, but doesn't care much, because it doesn't make sense.
@UrukEngineer im sorry but thats laughable considering the fact that it is flawed highly flawed logic to jump to the conclusion that you know all there is to know about god because of evolution is like me saying i know all there is to know about evolution through the bible like i said if your going to bring god into the equations you need too bring multiple other fields of studies and like always deny other facts that done simply fit with yours and plz note im not a creationist
@matrixlone Why do you think that I "jump to the conclusion that you know all there is to know about god"
All I said was that I have seen enough of the evidence to be convinced that Evolution by Natural Selection can explain the diversity of life on Earth today - without the need to say that god had a hand in it.
This DOES undermine the evidence for there being a god. However, I could never prove one does not exist. There is just no evidence upon which a justified belief can be formed.
@UrukEngineer I said that because some evolutionists think that happened.
The existence of fossils imply that there was a world-wide catastrophe, and if there are millions of years between them, then there should be a lot more craters in the eart, and there aren't as many as there should be. What other catastrophic event would've buried them so fast? Only a world-wide flood, which evolutionists don't want to admit.
@davegamemaster "The existence of fossils imply that there was a world-wide catastrophe" - how?
They show that things lived once and got buried in silt and mud etc. No catastrophic event needed.
Tracing the fossil record shows several mass extinctions, many millions of years ago. There is even a serious scientific hypothesis that the Earth was once almost completely covered in ice.
You can see the layers, miles deep in many cases.
@UrukEngineer There are some cases in which they were in silt or mud, but in order for hundreds of thousands of fossils were discovered its not evidence of a "muddy planet," its evidence that they got buried very fast. And there's other problem, if there were "several mass extintions" then why did creatures "evolve" to the same animals? And if the dinosaurs got extint millions of years ago, then why did the Babilonians have paintings on their walls showing dragon-like creatures?
Facts ... which is incomplete. Or do you honestly believe that the fact that we, humans, know at this age is all there is? Scientists at the turn of 19th century were so sure that they 'almost' completed the analysis of the law of Nature. Now, we are not even sure what the heck is going on. Just read on quantum mechanics. We, humans, are just little children who are collecting a bit of shells/sands on the vast shore. (this is quote from Newton when he was interviewed)
You must have a very strong 'faith' in not believing God. To me, it's just a lot easier to believe in God.
Atheism is nothing but another form of religion. In these days, it looks like it's changing itself into organized religion (with atheist social organization and political campaign for atheism), which they claim to hate most.
3. Atheism is NOT a religion, look it up. If religions were TV channels, Atheism is "off".
4. Science produces "hypotheses", tested and refined against observation they are slowly modified to approximate to "truth". If a new piece of evidence is discovered, the theory is altered. Take your own example; Newtonian physics. Once Einstein's physical model was proved to be better, Newtonian caluculations were seen merely as an approximation.
@UrukEngineer Of course, I suggest that every one evaluates the evidence and all evidence I've seen points to God. Abiogenesis is not only not very likely, but imposible. And, If abiogenesis can't happen there can't be life without God.
This guy knows nothing about chemistry, phyics, or biology. How can you say that complex molecules didn't form life? John Piper, you need to study up on these subjects, I suggest you go back to college and take chemistry 101, phyics 101, and biology 101. I think the bible has made you scientifically illiterate!
@gallegs7 well i know that they my biology and chemistry books are referenced/cited from hundreds of teachers and scientists that have updated information of the newest scientific studies and research. I know this because in the first 10 pages of the book it shows the author's pictures, bio, etc. Dont ask me such a stupid question like that again! Is there any references or accurate cited sources in the bible, FUCK NO! Did you ever go to college?
@slap2tap2 ok relax. i know atheist get upset when Christians tell them that but please i am just challenging your question. I am in college by the way. i dont believe it is a stupid question because there are many science books that claim the bible is true or could possibly be true. Just because the science books that your college used supported an atheist doesnt mean there arent books that support a christian belief. I was just pointing that out and hoping to expand your mind.
@gallegs7 You are very sincere, but if you knew anything about science, it has nothing to do with supernatural. Science explores the natural world and phenomenons because that is the only possible way people can test an observation or a hypothesis. I would much rather read and study a book that shows me how the real world works, rather than a fictional bible/torah/Quran etc. tells me everything was made from god/gods.I wouldnt gain a neuron of knowledge from reading them (I have read the bible)
@slap2tap2 You may have read the bible but have you studied the bible? If you studied the bible like you did with science(because science and Christianity go hand in hand) then you would learn way more things about this world and why its like it is now. We look at the same evidence but interpret it differently. I think the main reason why some Christians turn to atheism is because of how cliche and unrighteous some Christians act. True Christians find the truth in God anyway they can.
@slap2tap2 Science does not prove everything my friend. There are many questions that havent been answered. A person who is truly interested in finding the truth must also consider what is beyond the natural world because science has not proven everything. Also like i said before many scientist believe that science does prove the bible to be correct. It is illegal to teach that in public schools and most professors in college decide not to teach creation.
@slap2tap2 You cannot just take the opinions from one side. You have to listen to both sides. I do believe the bible is true however it was not meant to be proven scientifically.
@gallegs7 what draws you to the conclusion that it is the ultimate truth? I have heard from both sides & I see that religion tells you to be satisfied with just concluding that a supernatural made everything. Science is unbiased & says idk how this works,lets study it & try to understand it.We only understand nature in the way IT wants to work. We cant wrap our minds around a biased system that wants us to believe that it was created from a deity, nature doesnt work that way. Do u understand?
@slap2tap2 your right science is unbiased however scientist can be. And that is who wrote all the books that colleges use. i will say it again there are scientist and a lot of science that point towards the bible. Many scientist have said that they have changed their atheistic views because of the research they have done and they do believe in a creator based on their research. You act as though all scientist agree with one another but they dont.
@gallegs7 Of course scientists dont agree with each other all of the time, otherwise experiments/hypotheses would never be tested repeatedly.I could care less if you want to wrap your head around the laws of science with a deity, that's your choice. But if you think that scicene does not improve humanity, you are seriously delusional.Religion has never done anything but create wars against other religions; 911, crusades, inquisition.
@slap2tap2 You must understand that you have wrapped your mind around a biased system. You must also understand if there is a God, then he created everything. He created the rules that the nature world has like the laws of gravity. He created it all. Who is to say that he cant break those rules? You say science proves God is not real but i say God has proven he is real through science many times. You just have to have an open mind. And you must be willing to except him if you do find he is real.
@gallegs7 You think science is biased, you must know nothing about science then. Have you ever heard of the a double blind study? It's where both the tested subject & the experimenter dont know what the substance is that is being tested.I cant prove that there is no god, but you cant prove to me that there is; therefore i have no reason to think that there is a god; honestly idk.I didnt say science proves there is no god, im saying that science trys to understand how the world works.
@gallegs7 You contradict yourself over and over again when you say a scientist is biased but science is unbiased. And what kind of proof of god do i need, bahahahahaha where's your proof, a book that tells you it was written from a gods voice haha you got to be joking.Shit I could probably make up a book that has some similar fairytales in it and call it the bible.All religion is man made
@slap2tap2 It is not a contradiction when i say that science may be unbiased but scienctist can be. Scienctist are humans and they allow their emotions and their beliefs get the best of them again. I am sorry we are in to the name calling now because that proves nothing in a debate. By the way the bible was written by men however it was God who placed in their hearts and minds to write it. Im sure you could write a book but it wouldnt hold the test of time like the bible has.
@gallegs7 you havent proven anything to me. The way I know that religion is all mumbo jumbo prestigious dogma and are cults is that you have to look at the newer religions like scientology and mormonism. They all believe in some fairytalistic god. And another thing, why dont you believe in thor, zeus, or any other god. You see were all atheists about other gods, some of us just go one god further.
@slap2tap2 i have no idea how to prove to you over youtube response messages that God is real. Just like i dont expect you to prove to me over youtube message that he isnt real. you of course know that is impossible to try and do over these short messages. I am simply trying to get you to look at the scientist who believe their is a God based on what they have learned scientifically. Many scientist believe that science proves God existence. Yes i dont believe in any other Gods.
@gallegs7 Their beliefs are there own opinions, Most scientists are atheists but there are some who are religious and that is their burden if they want to believe in something that is why it is a free country. Someone shouldnt have to shove their belief system down a persons throat.I have heard from both sides and I know that to me science seems to want to improve humanity and looks for understanding in the real world. Religion doesnt do it for me. Plus the kneeling is seems kinda gay lol
@slap2tap2 I dont know how many scientist are christian however 40% of scientist belief their is most likely a creator. 40% say their is most likely no creator and 20% dont kno. Now just because they belief in a creator doesnt mean they are christian, i am just trying to prove to you that science has no disprove God. I dont want to shove my beliefs down your throat. I have many beliefs that you might not believe in. Like i believe private Health Care is better then public health care.
@gallegs7 "I want to put on the table, not why 85% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences reject God, I want to know why 15% of the National Academy don’t."
85% of members of National Academy of Sciences reject a belief in god. Of the other 15%, they are mostly deists, but they do not believe in the christian god. They believe in a creator only.
@ScizRgaming You are right. I looked that up and although some numbers were a little different, it seems that most of your research is right. However you have to take other surveys into count. I did and and it was by historian Edward J. Larson and he asked 1000 scientist including biologists, physicits and mathematicians if they believed in God. About 40 percent said yes. Now i do believe it is more likely that a scientist studying the nature world to be an atheist.
@slap2tap2 you must understand that when i am trying to tell you about Jesus i am not simply trying to put my beliefs on you i am trying to save you. Think about what i believe. You know what happens in the end so can you really get mad at me for trying to save you from that? I know you think religion doesnt work for you right now and really religion is a bunch of crap. I just want you to know about Jesus and just cause you dont believe him right now does not mean he isnt real.
@gallegs7 You see thats the problem, is this whole saving thing.Youre trying to save me? From what? How are you so sure that there is something after we die. What if this is the only life we got and we should try to live it to the fullest instead of trying to worship something we dont know is there.That is the problem i have with religion is that it is all based on blind faith and there is no garauntee that there is an afterlife.how do u know there is a heaven, have u been there?
@slap2tap2 how do you know its not true? now i want to make one thing clear. I cannot save you, only Jesus has the power to save. Now It is not all blind faith. Like i have said many times there is plenty of evidence, like how about Jesus raising from the dead. How about how our world works, it is amazing to see nature at work, if you look close enough it is clear their is a creator. My friend i think you know God is real or why else would you even be debating this with me?
@slap2tap2 Why would you debate something with someone that is not real. I dont believe in aliens, you dont see me going around debating it with people. That would be wasting my life. You say why not live your life to the fullest well arent you wasting it right now debating it? The things is your not. I believe you know their is a God deep down you just dont want to face it. Their is plenty of evidence my friend. Just God look for it.
@gallegs7 i just wish for people to look at evidence thats all. Truely i wish there was an afterlife when we die, that would be wonderful but I cant draw to the conclusion that there is one. The truth is idk and neither do you so stop worrying.You say there is plenty of evidence, where? I have yet to see any evidence of it
@patriciacarrasco Well that's unfortunate you were contemplating suicide. I know if you were my friend i would help you. Now im not saying there isnt a god, Im not certain, but religious people are so certain that there is. I find it much more interesting to be uncertain about things, because it makes me want to understand the world better. I would rather be uncertain than have answers to something which might be wrong.
@gallegs7 Plus you just made my point on why would you believe in something that is not real. That is why i am debating with you, because I dont see how you believe in something that is not real
@gallegs7 The point with debating with christians is that atheists feel it is a problem for the world.
It teaches you to be satisfied with no evidence at all, and to take things on "faith".
Faith, by the way, means "belief without evidence"
Also - I'm not sure if you knew this, but the gospels (matt, mark, luke, and john) were written around 70 years after JESUS death. How reliable is that? No christian will debate that fact by the way, they choose to believe it for some reason though
I don't care much for Christian or atheist worldview...as long as people remain rational. Using statements like "i believe X is bad because God said so" is irrational. Justification for bad vs good should only be derived from secular reasonings.
Casshyr 5 days ago
something here doesn't make sense
joniosa91 1 week ago
I guess I don't understand how there can be more than one athiestic worldview. If you don't believe in God, then you obviously can't use God as an explanation for how the world and everything in it came to exist; therefore, you have to put your faith in things like evolution and the big bang, which is what Piper is getting at here. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just putting my opinion out there.
tHeEtHmAn18 3 months ago
1:20 is a reall really really great point. It's unbeleivable.
desasterz 4 months ago
You are definately inspiring...There should be more preachers like you, bc more people would go to church..Its depressing to see that so many people hate the Bible and spit on each others beliefs....Thank you for these videos, they've helped me and many others along the way.
rekindling1 5 months ago
How does matter become aware of itself? Neurological functions are biological and observable, but awareness of those functions is not. If one posits that matter is born of awareness rather than the other way around this makes more sense. This is coming from an atheist btw.
attitudinous 5 months ago
@attitudinous A physicist is the atoms way of considering itself. Awareness is directly related to physical properties (as far as our empirical method has revealed so far)
ilikezappa 5 months ago
i think christianity is a personal thing with God, so everyone kinda has his own ass? if you're not gonna save your own ass, then no one will help you.
what im pointing is, your life is your own responsibility, its unnecessary to criticize people in what their beliefs are.
lemilo 6 months ago
this theory is so resoundinly stupid, taking science to make his science fiction seem possible, nit picking things out of a textbook to make him seem scientific
13brandom 6 months ago
This guy is full of shit
BigBallsBoydie 6 months ago
this pillock knows nothing about Atheism, or Evolution. Evangelists are sooo narrow minded!
marcohorowitz8 7 months ago
There is no singular atheist "world view". A--theism describes a position of no belief in gods. It doesn't begin to suggest what beliefs an atheist might have. An atheist is not defined by what they lack belief in. Atheism is not a world view just as not believing in space aliens or fairies is not a world view.
sweetsweatyfeet 7 months ago 8
@sweetsweatyfeet well said!! Are you an Atheist? I am!
marcohorowitz8 7 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet What do you mean there is no truth? That's what you're saying. I would have thought that a critical thinking person like atheists would tend to have an assumption that there is a truth and only one truth. At least to get you out to the reallity that there is no God. You must assume that there is the truth and that is what the atheist worldview is suposed to be when he talks about it.
desasterz 4 months ago
@desasterz Please tell me where I stated there is no truth?---because I can't begin to see how you extrapolated that from what I wrote. Atheism is simply a position on the subject of god belief. it's not a philosophy, has no tenets or doctrines and doesn't address the subject of what IS true. The subject that deals with validation of knowledge (IE, truth) is epistemology. If there were no truth I wouldn't be typing this response on a computer.
sweetsweatyfeet 4 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet The atheist worldview is that there is only one truth.
desasterz 4 months ago
@desasterz Atheism is not a "world view". It's nothing more than a position about belief in god. You too are an atheist with respect to the gods of other religions you don't believe in--Thor, Zeus, Krishna, etc, etc. I am the same except I have one more god on my "do-not-believe" list---the Christian god.
I find rather strange when a Christian tries to define atheism for an atheist. How would it be if I defined Christianity for you?
sweetsweatyfeet 4 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet Well, Atheism is that there was no God and that everything we see started out of matter and inanimate objects. That's what a God is right? Conversly to that.. And I am not an atheist if I beleive in God, no matter if I deny some of them and hold to one. And for goodness sake, I don't need to hold a position in order to understand it. I can very well meditate on what "that" could mean if it was true as it relates to life, humans and our values. And with Atheism I certainly can.
desasterz 4 months ago
@desasterz "Atheism is that there was no God and that everything we see started out of matter and inanimate objects"
No. First of all, atheism means not having a belief that there is a God. There's a difference. Second, ideas about what everything we see is and where it came from aren't part of atheism. While everyone has a duty to try to account for the world, atheism isn't a package deal where those answers are included for you. One could be an atheist an have different beliefs about that.
justicecallicles 4 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet Lack of a belief affects the way you view the world. If I don't believe in economic reform I have a view distinct from those who do believe in economic reform. You are correct that atheism is not a particular belief set, but it is a particular range of beliefs, namely, all belief systems which lack belief in God may be considered atheist worldviews or belief systems. This subset is distinct from the whole set of all belief systems and worldviews. Also consider norms. Unique.
TheJohnVandivier 2 months ago
Comment removed
sweetsweatyfeet 2 months ago
@TheJohnVandivier The dismissal of god theories (atheism) leaves open every other possible theory---a virtually unlimited number of explanations without deities. The range and scope of explanations are so vast, they cannot be clumped together as a "world view". The term "world view" is vague and nebulous, I will not use it.
One can even believe in the supernatural and still be called an atheist. A Buddhist has no god belief but does believe in the supernatural. He's technically an atheist.
sweetsweatyfeet 2 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet Dude I don't care if you believe that it's ok to jump of a 50 foot cliff headfirst without a helmet - believe what you want, reality will filter out your idiocy. I'm trying to do you a favor.
Even numbers are an infinite set, does that mean we can't clump them together and distinguish them from odd numbers? Come on bud, get real.
TheJohnVandivier 2 months ago
@sweetsweatyfeet I would argue your point that Atheism doesn't begin to suggest beliefs an atheist might have. Certainly it can't precisely define their beliefs, just as christians do not believe the same way about everything. If someone is an atheist however i would expect them to be pro gay marriage, pro abortion, ect. Why would they have reasons not to be? certainly not any religious ones.
Asterixarcher 2 weeks ago
@Asterixarcher Given the Christian propensity for labeling people, I'm not surprised you would feel that way. Atheism addresses only the question of belief in deity(s). What else any given atheist believes is subject to cultural and philosophical influences and personal reflection---and it varies greatly from person to person.
sweetsweatyfeet 2 weeks ago
The theologian tells the scientists what to think. Amazing!
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
"A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading."
— C.S. Lewis
wacdaddy22 8 months ago 6
Even the Bible says man is made of mud! Haven't this guy ever heard of abiogenesis? This is the absolute dogmatism and arrogance of religion that will continue to push me further away from it.
LabeerehnGbanna 8 months ago
retard
TheRubsi 8 months ago
this guy should get his facts right!!!
ANFE3964 8 months ago
What a deluded man. very sad really.
nailedurmum01 9 months ago
@Solan0922 "science is built with theories" correct.
These are drawn up from observations. They are then tested by experiment and used to see if they can predict real world bahviour. The theories are then modified. Slowly but surely those theories become so solid we can use them for the basis of sound belief. However they remain "theories" as they are always open to scientific scrutiny.
Isn't that more intellectually honest than the bible?
UrukEngineer 10 months ago
a total quack. I really hope one day people like Piper will see the error in their ways. Don't get me wrong, there are morons who are atheists and theists. However, this guy doesn't only think a god is real and true, he thinks his god is true, and all other are wrong. What a quack.
JBeezie428 10 months ago
Mr. Piper seems unfamiliar with atheist arguments. An atheist does not claim to know what created are universe but does not believe the answer from a 2000 year old book has the answers or even informs good moral choices. An atheist believes in what they can prove, everything else is pure speculation.
JunkmanJim 10 months ago
@JunkmanJim Atheists and their dogmatic ways.........i question God sometimes, and sometimes i even have doubts about some things when it comes to God, but soon or later I'll get my questions and doubts answer. Atheists on the other hand do not question anything about their beleives, yet they think christian are the ones with their heads in the sand???? Jesus instructed each Christian to his enemy and pray for them......what kind of GOD say something like that??? body slam 'em i get..but pray?
asheyblack 9 months ago
@asheyblack
I am quite open to new evidence and arguments. I would be willing to bet that you are unfamiliar with how the Bible was written and who wrote it. Just do a little skeptical reading, it will surprise you.
Jesus instructed Christians to love their enemy but God killed thousands of people, including an entire a generation of first born males. Who would you kill for God? According to the Bible he commanded the deaths of many, entire cities. The Bible is simply bronze age superstition.
JunkmanJim 9 months ago
@JunkmanJim bronze age superstition, lol.....like i said y are athesist so dogmatic about their "beleives" you are functioning in faith more than a Christian is....i'm suppose to die daily to my flesh(i'll explain if you don't kknow what i mean by flesh), sometimes i mess up and i don't die to self like i should....God was on a mission in the old testament(JESUS) had he not accomplish that mission(JESUS).....................WOW, I can't even imagine....anyways
asheyblack 9 months ago
@JunkmanJim "The Bible is simply bronze age superstition." True. It is so sad that we remain in its grip.
Check out Evid3nc3's videos.
There is a link on my channel. They are truly inspirational and outstandly produced. He is a very articulate ex-Christian who is making a series of videos about his deconversion. It includes several on how the bible evolved from a polytheistic text.
If there are any christians out there that want to understand Atheism - check out his site.
Peace
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
Preach homes.
eljair93 10 months ago
People make sense. We just all come from different perspectives. How can one finite person listen to another finite person try to logically reason out the existence of an infinite God? One subjectively comes from a relationship with God, whom he's in love with and by which he reasons the rest. I'm not going to pretend to be atheist but i cant help trying to empathize the attitude that of I don't believe in a God cause it helps me when He's nonexistent, that would be logically insane.
Brazillianviking 11 months ago
If you presuppose "Life" then that is all you have to go on. If you look at 99%+ of all your surroundings you find inanimate matter. Is it the chicken or the egg? Ultimately, it is the argument of First Cause. If the First Cause needs no cause, existence itself needs no explanation either. It is self-caused and self-explanatory.
If the maker needs no maker, it simply is the great "I Am"...being both the ultimate answer and no answer at all.
dogon3 11 months ago
wish you woulda posted the whole lecture. Piper is really speaking out for the Lord.
bengphoenix 11 months ago
John1 appeals to reason?
A god who is pleased by blood sacrifices appeals to reason?
A god that would curse the earth (Gen 3) because of the misbehavior of two naked teenagers appeals to reason?
Christians are not reasonable people.
You my like personal origins and ends better than impersonal origins and ends but you have a long way to go if want to convince me that you are reasonable in doing so.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
This man is in the business of deception.
brajamtho757 1 year ago
This guy isn't a scientist but he sets himself up as the Judge of All Science to tell us which sciences are valid and which are not?! Wow--what hubris.
BobTheAtheist2 1 year ago
God is fiction.
Karoke77 1 year ago
John piper contradicts himself here, we wouldn't have life without matter. That's like asking "what came first, the chick or the egg?" the egg of course..It's typical science, you start from the simplest form of life and work up to complex forms of life such as humans
slap2tap2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Atheists have no choice but to be arrogant.
Karoke77 1 year ago
The biggest difference being Atheists and Christians is that Atheists draw conclusions from facts.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago 17
@UrukEngineer Is the Big Bang THEORY a fact, or is it a theory? Atheists draw conclusions from science as to explain how the world works. But what science is really doing is explaining how God likes to do things! Praise that people are spending so much time and energy trying to find out how God like to make the world work, but I just wish people recognized that that is what they were doing! I love you all!
JGottshalk9 1 year ago
@JGottshalk9 The Big Bang is a theory. Like any scientific hypothesis it is drawn up from experiment and observation and, if it is the best-fit, it is considered as the accepted working model...until something comes along that is better. That's how science works.
Religion puts forward an explanation for everything, that's it, full stop. It does not accept evidence that plainly proves the religious thypotheis to be wrong. It is eternal and unquestionable. It is a bar to progress.
.....
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer gravity is also a theory, are you going to argue with gravity as well?
Rooney10ManU1 1 year ago
@Rooney10ManU1 Are you THE Rooney of Man U? If so, kudos mate.
You may be a footballing giant, but you miss the point of my argument.
Science and religion are not on a spectrum of belief. They are different ways of looking at the world. The religious view fixes "truths" as eternal (eg god created the world and man - end of story). The Scientific view observes nature, proposes a theory, experiments, observes and, if necessary changes theory.
Therefore I don't understand your point
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@JGottshalk9 It is an interesting perspective you have mate...that scientists are "explaining how God likes to do things". ......
There just is no reason for there to be a god. Slowly science is pushing back the boundary of knowledge, as it moves back we never seem to "uncover god". He/she is just not there mate.
But, unlike most of the religious nutters I find on YouTube, you seem a peaceful loving soul - so peace to you mate.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer Think about this: What if there is no distinction between science and God (the natural and the supernatural)? If God created everything (I know that you may not believe this, but it is important for my stance! lol) then we can only conclude that He does not see a distinction between the two. Science is not designed to "uncover" God, because that would mean that He is constrained to man-made parameters. It is rather a study of Him. Science is the search for truth that relates
JGottshalk9 1 year ago
@JGottshalk9 If I understand you correctly, your proposition accepts scientific explanations of the universe and of the evolution of animals as correct. Then says that this was what he intended, science is just a “study of god”.
It is an interesting proposition, but there are a number of problems with it. What is most interesting is that it leads to a signifiant problem for christians…
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer to what we can see or apply to math. If we could fully understand God, then perhaps God would become science. But if we had full understanding of God, wouldn't He cease being God? Not trying to criticize you, just wanted to present some things for you to think about! Its fun to discuss things without people from either side of the argument reverting to petty name calling and such!
JGottshalk9 1 year ago
@JGottshalk9 …It completely contradicts the bible. It allows humans to “reinterpet” key books. Why stop at Genesis? Why not reinterpret the resurrection as that he came back to life in the imagination of his followers. Does that not then undermine the whole basis of christianity?
And yes, it is more pleasant to debate this civily. Peace.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer While science does attempt to explain things, it does not always get it completely correct every time. But to give credit where it is due, I would say science gets it right more times than not. As far as evolution and the resurrection go, there is no way for science to test this and come to a factual conclusion. A study of God does not necessarily mean a clear cut definition of what God is. It is a study that humbly attempts to explain...
JGottshalk9 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer Im not trying to change your mind. Philip Yancey said "no one ever converted to Christianity because they lost the argument". I just want to present to you an alternative way of looking at science, and try to humbly convey that science and God are not on opposite ends of the belief spectrum!
JGottshalk9 1 year ago
@JGottshalk9 You are right, I am sure neither of us would change our minds over the 500 characters YouTube allows in a response.
I do however totally agree with you when you say "science and God are not on opposite ends of the belief spectrum" - although probably not for the reason you think.
Science and god (religion) are not on a spectrum at all. They are wholy different world views. Scientific theory changes as facts emerge. Religion stays constant despite the facts.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer no they draw asumptions
firedude384 11 months ago
@UrukEngineer no they draw asumptions,example spontanius generation
firedude384 11 months ago
@firedude384 Have you heard of the Scientific Method?
Systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
Can you see how that constrasts to religious method?
Write in a book, amend the book over hundreds of years to suit your political views. Declare the amendments as devinely inspired. Torture those that disagree.
UrukEngineer 11 months ago
@UrukEngineer the problem with athiests though is that they want to put god into a test tube,well sorry u cant,u cant put emotions in a test tube but u know they are real.think
firedude384 11 months ago
@firedude384 OK, suppose you can't scientifically test "emotions".
You CAN scientifically date fossils, determine the expansion rate of the universe, explain the evolution of species.
Do you accept that?
UrukEngineer 11 months ago
@UrukEngineer ok but the earth had different amount of carbon back 6milloin years ago, as ud say,how can u get an accurate test? and plus , science has no found out that we can make fossil fuels from petrified wood,and it doesnt take millions of years
firedude384 11 months ago
@firedude384 Because the half-life of carbon-14 is 5,700 years, it is only reliable for dating objects up to about 60,000 years old. This far exceeds the biblical estimate of 6,000 years for the Earth. However, the principle of carbon-14 dating applies to other isotopes as well. Potassium-40 is another radioactive element naturally found in your body and has a half-life of 1.3 billion years. So it helps is get in the right ball park. Does that help?
UrukEngineer 11 months ago
@firedude384 Do you want to learn about the history of the bible too?
Type this onto YouTubes's search box:
3.3.3 Atheism - A History of God (Part 1)
UrukEngineer 11 months ago 3
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NorfWeezey 10 months ago
@UrukEngineer You say that "Atheists draw conclusions from facts" but how can you prove the world started through matter? You can't. You can say all you want "science proves this" but it's as this man just said "you are only guessing". You don't truly know how the world started you can only guess because you weren't there to begin with, which means your argument and beliefs are nothing but a guess. You and no other atheist in this world can prove how the world started so you guess how it did.
SmokingTheologian 9 months ago
@SmokingTheologian "but how can you prove the world started through matter?"
You miss the point.
Science works by making observations. A theory is then postulated to explain those observations. It is then tested by experiemt and more observations. Either the theory is then modified to fit better with observations or a new one produced. Over time some theories hold good against such a weight of observation that they are considered to approximate "fact".
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@SmokingTheologian Just because there is not conclusive scientfic proof for the origin of the universe does not mean "god did it".
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer True, just because there is no scientfic proof doesn't mean "God made it", but that is not what I'm arguing about. I was arguing if atheist believe in facts or if they just guess the whole thing. And I did just prove that atheists don't believe in facts but on guessing because of what you just said "Just because there is not conclusive scientfic proof". Because you said that there is no conclusive scientfic proof means you don't know, which also means you believe in a "guess".
SmokingTheologian 9 months ago
@SmokingTheologian You need to understand what is meant by "scientific theory" - it is not the same as "guess". Gravity is a scientific theory, it is not a guess. The Electro-magnetic Force the manipulation of which is the basis of your PC is a scientific theory, not a guess. There is a lot of evidence to support the Big Bang theory, it is not a guess.
How do you know the god you worship is christian. How did you know he isn't the muslim god...or Zeus, Thor, Baal etc. Evidence or guess?
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer Yet again you got it wrong. In my last comment I said nothing about "scientific theory" and what I thought you meant by it, I was arguing if atheist believe in facts or in a guess.
To answer your question about if I am following the right "god". If I were to argue and tell you how I know I am following the right God, you would just think of me as an even greater fool than what you do now. Why? Because you have no desire to understand why I know. You will ignore whatever I say.
SmokingTheologian 9 months ago
@SmokingTheologian You said "Because you said that there is no conclusive scientific proof means you don't know, which also means you believe in a 'guess'." This is not true. Atheists vary, but most have a worldview based on evidence-based, scientific hypotheses. You are right you did not say anything about scientific theory - you should have.
You are wrong, I am interested to know how you selected the christian god. I will not ignore what you say, but I will probably challenge your logic. :)
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer I'm glad that you are will to listen, though this will be my last comment. The reason I believe in God instead of another god is because every religion (except Christianity) believes in a work base salvation. But God says that I'm in no way, nor could I ever be, good enough to gain salvation. By Gods standards alone I'm a lier, thief, adulterer, and even a murder. But He has saved me no matter what sin I've committed because He is so sovereign. I've enjoyed our conversations later.
SmokingTheologian 9 months ago
@SmokingTheologian You are, in effect, "Atheist" about all other religions except christianity. I just go 1 god further. You aren't dirt, you aren't a worthless sinner - don't let them tell you that you are. You are an intelligent human who deserves respect and to take their place in community of man.
Peace
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer I've been reading the post-threads of your comments. I've had a few conversations with atheistic guys and its just really simple. The evidence of man and will always be irrelevant to the explanation of God. It's just like asking what the gender of an unborn baby is. The only evidence an atheist will ever see, is when they lay their weapons down and surrender to the Lord. Then the evidence and truth thus was unable to fathom will now be clear. I'm not trying to sound like I know it
wacdaddy22 8 months ago
@wacdaddy22 It is not "the evidence of man"..it is just *evidence*.
And none of it supports a belief in a supernatural being.
By all means carry on believing in god without evidence. Religious faith is, afterall, belief DESPITE all evidence to the contrary.
However, my only real concern is when that belief leads you to act in a way harmful to yourself and others. I am sure you don't need me to point out the appauling behaviour religious belief inspires.
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@wacdaddy22 BTW are you disappointed not to have "raptured" yesterday?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Exactly, any type of evidence IS evidence of Mankind. You're not catching my pass. The only way someone can be harmed by my beliefs or relationship with the Lord, is simply because they're offended of the evidence how so God has worked in my life. I know for a fact the Lord is real and his Holy Spirit is, but this evidence is no "proof" to your equation. To answer your question about the Rapture, I seriously laughed out loud. The rapture that was suppose to happen is a big joke.
wacdaddy22 8 months ago
Respond to this video... noone knows when Judgement day is coming, not even the angels. So no i'm not dissapointed about that, sir. I really wanted to ask every follower of Mr. Camping, how they felt.
wacdaddy22 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer
I've been reading your debates with other Christians on a number of Mr Piper's videos with great interest. It is very clear you are a well educated man. Please search what I have enclosed in quotation marks below :)
Lee Strobel- Does Science point to a creator?
toocool2beat 9 months ago
@toocool2beat I have come across Lee Strobel’s work before. The video is part of a “Faith under Fire” series in which he picks up on topics from his book “The Case for a Creator”
When I was looking into his arguments I found a great article on the web. Google “Another Case Not Made: A Critique of Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator (2005)”
His strongest points are made where science does not have a clear answer (abiogenisis and the Big Bang). But this does not prove "god did it".
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer serious question. are you an atheist? if so can you explain to me --- because of an atheist's unbelief in God do they believe human kind has an ultimate purpose for living? Are we only here to live and then die? wouldnt that believe of no consequences after death contribute to lawless or a lack of moral living?
aferg76 9 months ago
@aferg76 "Atheism" says nothing about what anyone believes. It just means that they have not been made aware of any evidence for the existence of a supernatural being(s), therefore belief in them is unreasonable. That's it, full stop ("period" in US).
This means that when it comes to "how" did the universe and man get here, Atheists see a perfectly cogent rationale in scientific explanations.
In this sense it is an illogical question to ask "why are we here"...however...
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer Why do you make your own "purpose in life" if you think you're just a bunch of chemicals and matter that evolved without having a purpose? Why should you make then? Only for more "matter" to remember you? That's nonsense. Why do you want to be ethical? What would "matter" care if you're not wthical? How can you even think, though, if you're only matter? If you can think and talk and you're matter, why don't you ask a rock what's his purpose in life?
davegamemaster 9 months ago
@aferg76 ...most Atheists are also Humanists. This means that they seek to live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity. They take responsibility for their actions and base their ethics on the goals of human welfare, happiness and fulfilment. They seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves, individually and together.
Are you honestly saying that without a god YOU would murder and rape. Imagine it, be honest?
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer I wouldn't call a "fact" to something theorical. NO ONE has ever proven that non-life can create life EVER, and won't. Not even if you could create a cell with all its parts and all what's in it it'd move, why? Because its matter, matter is energy but not life. Atheists are irrealistic, they think they know a lot but they really know nothing about the beginning of all. They believe that something could have happened and even that is impossible to the greatest extent.
davegamemaster 9 months ago
@davegamemaster OK, some "facts"...
1. To be an Atheists just means that no one has presented you with sufficient credible evidence to believe in a god(s). That is all it means. By definition Atheists don't think they "know a lot" Contrast that to the religious who think they DO have the answer to everything - god.
2. I have never claimed it is a "fact" that abiogensis is possible. However I have seen credible evidence to propose how it might have occured. The jury is still out on that
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@davegamemaster Look up "Atheist" and "Abiogenesis" in Wikipedia or any other serious website.
Read the facts. Make up your own mind.
Come back and challenge me if you like.
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer So? Atheists normally believe in Abiogenesis and that kind of things because its the only way to not believe in God, and that's what they "have to think" that began life, if not, they'd have to believe in God.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster No mate, I feel you are missing the point about Atheism. An Atheist DOES NOT have to believe in anything. They use sceptical inquiry and examine the evidence, making up their own mind. Don't be afraid to admit that you don't know; something may just be "not proven".
There are some fantistic videos by a YouTuber called Evid3nc3 (link on my my channel). I recommend that you check them out. If nothing else, it will allow you to make a stronger argument for your views.
Peace
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer K, you've said that you are atheist because no one has convinced you of the existence of God, but have you seen all the evidence against evolution? If you're an atheist then you'd see the evidence and "make your own mind" of it as you said. I think that one of the best arguments about the existence of God is that there's no better explanation because everything else is impossible. Atheism means "without God", but if you check all evidence you'd see that evolution is impossible.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer And if evolution is impossible then there's no better explanation than God. You've said that we say that "we have all answers" - God. And that's kinda true, but that's the answer to all that we can't explain yet, but we can explain why evolution isn't true and to many other things.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster I think you picked the wrong scientific theory to "trash". Evolution by natural selection is one of the strongest theories in science. Nothing has been found to disprove it. I have seen many "evidences" all of which were epic fails.
Besides, even if Evolution (by N S) were to be wrong, it does not mean that you can say "oh in that case it must have been god that did it"
BTW, what did you think of Evid3nc3's videos?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Evolution by natural selection is one of the most stupid theories I've seen, if you want we can have a debate in private about it, but I don't have much time right now so please don't wait for an immediate answer. I say God did it because I've had a personal experience with Him so I know He exists and because there's NO WAY found that can make amino acids form proteins in nature, and if there are proteins in nature they would be useless for a cell if after some...(to becontinued)
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer ...After some hundreds of years without being used in a cell because it'd mix with useless amino acids that make it useless for a cell. An about Evid3nc3's videos, I haven't seen many beecause of lack of time but I saw a few and found some problems which I want to talk with him and if you want with you too. I want to have debates and that kind of stuff but I want to share information etc. but some atheists don't like nor want that and a debate without that its meaningless for me.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster How can I help?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer How should I interpret that answer? Some ways apply in this case. Like how could you help with having a debate, or preparing for it by reading or watching something, or that you don't know what to answer, etc.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster What exactly was the fact/point/issue that you either did not understand or for which you had a rebutal that you wanted to state. How can I help address that fact/point... etc?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer You meant "what did you didn't understand of the theory of evolution?" or "what did you didn't undertand about evid3nc3's videos?"? Remember we were talking about two issues. I wanted to say "evolution is impossible" and "I have seen some problems with Evid3nce3's videos."
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster Alright taking just 1 point.
Are you aware of the principles behind the scientific theory of Evolution by Natural Selection? If you disagree with it, what evidence or fact caused you not to believe that it gives a sound explanation for the diversity of life that we see today?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer I'm aware of some principles, I don't know if there are more. And there are lots of evidence that made me not to think its true. One argument is that life can't come from non-life and not even the BEST scientist can say that's not true, if they think its possible, then you should apply that technique to a rock or a book or even something "easier" as a dead animal or a dead human.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster The scientific case for abiogensis is still not fully formed. Put that aside for one minute.
Once life got started, E by NS fits all the data we have about the evolution of species from the earliest forms of life to those alive today. What evidence has caused you not to believe that it does?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer The impossibility of amino acids to form in nature that are usefull in a cell, the fact that no one has proven that amino acids form proteins in nature, the EXCESSIVE amount of information in the DNA, the nucleic acids and the proteins that obey their "orders," the fact that the celular membrane is made of fat and fat is only made by LIVING CELLS (and its too complex btw), the impossibility of creating a cell simple enough to be made by nature and much more.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster Whoa! You've gone back yp abiogenesis.
Once simple life got started E by NS shows how it evolved. What evidence causes you to disbelieve it?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Oh, srry. The fact that we haven't seen an animal evolving from fish to amphibian, the absurdity of scales becoming feathers, the fact that no known animal has ever been seen having babies of other kind (like fishes giving birth tadpoles), the fact that whales don't have remains of legs, the fact that babies are not born with gills, the lack of transitional forms (in all stages), the fact that jellyfishes are more amazing than fishes and not less, and much more.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster Evolution does not work like that. Wolves don't give birth to dogs. A wolf gives birth to a wolf. However, over time, LONG periods of time, there are subtle changes. In the wild, these changes may favour one group over another (e.g. white coat in winter for camouflage). Those animals go one to pass their successful genes to their offspring. Eventually they become a different species. Scientists have directly observed new species evolving.
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Have you ever noticed that there is little difference between wolves and dogs? Even a 5 year old kid would tell you that wolves are similar to dogs, but they would tell you that wolves are very different than birds, or than crocodiles or fishes or whatever. I never said "wolves didn't change into dogs" I said "reptiles didn't change into wolves," well, not exactly like that but its the same thing. The fact is that no reptiles give birth birds or anything else than reptiles.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster I know, I agree with you.
Have you understood the point I made?
When you campare parent and child they are the same species. Only after a very long time are the child and great, great, great, great.....grandparent from different species. This is why it takes time to observe speciation (successive offspring of one species gradually evolving into another).
Humans are not descended from chimps we share a common ancestor with them
BTW there are lots of transitional forms
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Then you think that frogs can become humans? All transitional forms I've seen are fake or are not transitional forms. And if it takes too long to evolve, then how come humans or "almost-humans" didn't paint anything or learn anything or even carve anything for at least more than a million years? That's just stupid. And another thing, how come scientists can't prove the beggining but they claim they know what's next? BTW, even the fossils are evidence against evolution.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster "Then you think that frogs can become humans?" No, that was not what I said. Was my point unclear?
Fossils only support Evolution by NS not creationism. Don't take my word for it, use Wiki to look up "Transitional fossil" read it for yourself and make up your own mind.
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer if your implying that there is no god because of evolution well thats a serously flawed logic evolution is testable but its not the same thing to jump to such conclusions and i dont really want to take your word for it because people are biased and the fact that evolutionists have no clue on multiple fields of study that involve god and evolution is a completely different study that cant state an origin to begin with
matrixlone 8 months ago
@matrixlone No, I am not using Evolution by Natural Selection to disprove the existence of god(s). All E by NS proves is that there is no need to "invoke" a supernatural power to explain the diversity of species today.
The point I was making to davegamemaster was that frogs don't become humans etc. The creatures we have all evolved from (with few exceptions) are not present today.
As for abiogenesis, science is moving ever closer to a strong hypothesis. God is in retreat ;)
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Why do you say "God is in retreat"? We don't need too many evidence to disprove evolution. "Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear? But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision." Psa. 59:7-8. That's why He's "in retreat," because evolution its simply laughable. I mean, you can't take it seriously. God can hear what you say, but doesn't care much, because it doesn't make sense.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster Sorry Dave, how is that "evidence"?
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
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davegamemaster 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer Who said it was evidence? It was an opinion of your comment.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer im sorry but thats laughable considering the fact that it is flawed highly flawed logic to jump to the conclusion that you know all there is to know about god because of evolution is like me saying i know all there is to know about evolution through the bible like i said if your going to bring god into the equations you need too bring multiple other fields of studies and like always deny other facts that done simply fit with yours and plz note im not a creationist
matrixlone 8 months ago
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@matrixlone Why do you think that I "jump to the conclusion that you know all there is to know about god"
All I said was that I have seen enough of the evidence to be convinced that Evolution by Natural Selection can explain the diversity of life on Earth today - without the need to say that god had a hand in it.
This DOES undermine the evidence for there being a god. However, I could never prove one does not exist. There is just no evidence upon which a justified belief can be formed.
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer I said that because some evolutionists think that happened.
The existence of fossils imply that there was a world-wide catastrophe, and if there are millions of years between them, then there should be a lot more craters in the eart, and there aren't as many as there should be. What other catastrophic event would've buried them so fast? Only a world-wide flood, which evolutionists don't want to admit.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
@davegamemaster "The existence of fossils imply that there was a world-wide catastrophe" - how?
They show that things lived once and got buried in silt and mud etc. No catastrophic event needed.
Tracing the fossil record shows several mass extinctions, many millions of years ago. There is even a serious scientific hypothesis that the Earth was once almost completely covered in ice.
You can see the layers, miles deep in many cases.
UrukEngineer 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer There are some cases in which they were in silt or mud, but in order for hundreds of thousands of fossils were discovered its not evidence of a "muddy planet," its evidence that they got buried very fast. And there's other problem, if there were "several mass extintions" then why did creatures "evolve" to the same animals? And if the dinosaurs got extint millions of years ago, then why did the Babilonians have paintings on their walls showing dragon-like creatures?
davegamemaster 8 months ago
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davegamemaster 8 months ago
@UrukEngineer
Facts ... which is incomplete. Or do you honestly believe that the fact that we, humans, know at this age is all there is? Scientists at the turn of 19th century were so sure that they 'almost' completed the analysis of the law of Nature. Now, we are not even sure what the heck is going on. Just read on quantum mechanics. We, humans, are just little children who are collecting a bit of shells/sands on the vast shore. (this is quote from Newton when he was interviewed)
neogrunt123 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer
You must have a very strong 'faith' in not believing God. To me, it's just a lot easier to believe in God.
Atheism is nothing but another form of religion. In these days, it looks like it's changing itself into organized religion (with atheist social organization and political campaign for atheism), which they claim to hate most.
neogrunt123 9 months ago
@neogrunt123
Facts (continued)..
3. Atheism is NOT a religion, look it up. If religions were TV channels, Atheism is "off".
4. Science produces "hypotheses", tested and refined against observation they are slowly modified to approximate to "truth". If a new piece of evidence is discovered, the theory is altered. Take your own example; Newtonian physics. Once Einstein's physical model was proved to be better, Newtonian caluculations were seen merely as an approximation.
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@neogrunt123 "To me, it's just a lot easier to believe in God."
In which case I suggest you "man-up" and take a cold hard look at the evidence.
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
@UrukEngineer Of course, I suggest that every one evaluates the evidence and all evidence I've seen points to God. Abiogenesis is not only not very likely, but imposible. And, If abiogenesis can't happen there can't be life without God.
davegamemaster 8 months ago
Man created gods to give women something to worship while they were out hunting and warring.
There's more evidence to suggest that man has created all the gods than the gods creating man through magic. These are just the facts.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
This guy knows nothing about chemistry, phyics, or biology. How can you say that complex molecules didn't form life? John Piper, you need to study up on these subjects, I suggest you go back to college and take chemistry 101, phyics 101, and biology 101. I think the bible has made you scientifically illiterate!
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 how do u know those physics or biology books you might have read in college didnt make u scientifically illiterate?
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 well i know that they my biology and chemistry books are referenced/cited from hundreds of teachers and scientists that have updated information of the newest scientific studies and research. I know this because in the first 10 pages of the book it shows the author's pictures, bio, etc. Dont ask me such a stupid question like that again! Is there any references or accurate cited sources in the bible, FUCK NO! Did you ever go to college?
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 ok relax. i know atheist get upset when Christians tell them that but please i am just challenging your question. I am in college by the way. i dont believe it is a stupid question because there are many science books that claim the bible is true or could possibly be true. Just because the science books that your college used supported an atheist doesnt mean there arent books that support a christian belief. I was just pointing that out and hoping to expand your mind.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 You are very sincere, but if you knew anything about science, it has nothing to do with supernatural. Science explores the natural world and phenomenons because that is the only possible way people can test an observation or a hypothesis. I would much rather read and study a book that shows me how the real world works, rather than a fictional bible/torah/Quran etc. tells me everything was made from god/gods.I wouldnt gain a neuron of knowledge from reading them (I have read the bible)
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 You may have read the bible but have you studied the bible? If you studied the bible like you did with science(because science and Christianity go hand in hand) then you would learn way more things about this world and why its like it is now. We look at the same evidence but interpret it differently. I think the main reason why some Christians turn to atheism is because of how cliche and unrighteous some Christians act. True Christians find the truth in God anyway they can.
Diachi26 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 Science does not prove everything my friend. There are many questions that havent been answered. A person who is truly interested in finding the truth must also consider what is beyond the natural world because science has not proven everything. Also like i said before many scientist believe that science does prove the bible to be correct. It is illegal to teach that in public schools and most professors in college decide not to teach creation.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 You cannot just take the opinions from one side. You have to listen to both sides. I do believe the bible is true however it was not meant to be proven scientifically.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 what draws you to the conclusion that it is the ultimate truth? I have heard from both sides & I see that religion tells you to be satisfied with just concluding that a supernatural made everything. Science is unbiased & says idk how this works,lets study it & try to understand it.We only understand nature in the way IT wants to work. We cant wrap our minds around a biased system that wants us to believe that it was created from a deity, nature doesnt work that way. Do u understand?
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 your right science is unbiased however scientist can be. And that is who wrote all the books that colleges use. i will say it again there are scientist and a lot of science that point towards the bible. Many scientist have said that they have changed their atheistic views because of the research they have done and they do believe in a creator based on their research. You act as though all scientist agree with one another but they dont.
gallegs7 1 year ago
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@gallegs7 Of course scientists dont agree with each other all of the time, otherwise experiments/hypotheses would never be tested repeatedly.I could care less if you want to wrap your head around the laws of science with a deity, that's your choice. But if you think that scicene does not improve humanity, you are seriously delusional.Religion has never done anything but create wars against other religions; 911, crusades, inquisition.
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 You must understand that you have wrapped your mind around a biased system. You must also understand if there is a God, then he created everything. He created the rules that the nature world has like the laws of gravity. He created it all. Who is to say that he cant break those rules? You say science proves God is not real but i say God has proven he is real through science many times. You just have to have an open mind. And you must be willing to except him if you do find he is real.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 You think science is biased, you must know nothing about science then. Have you ever heard of the a double blind study? It's where both the tested subject & the experimenter dont know what the substance is that is being tested.I cant prove that there is no god, but you cant prove to me that there is; therefore i have no reason to think that there is a god; honestly idk.I didnt say science proves there is no god, im saying that science trys to understand how the world works.
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 my friend i said science is unbiased. Scientist can be biased. And i what kind of prove of God do you need?
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 You contradict yourself over and over again when you say a scientist is biased but science is unbiased. And what kind of proof of god do i need, bahahahahaha where's your proof, a book that tells you it was written from a gods voice haha you got to be joking.Shit I could probably make up a book that has some similar fairytales in it and call it the bible.All religion is man made
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 It is not a contradiction when i say that science may be unbiased but scienctist can be. Scienctist are humans and they allow their emotions and their beliefs get the best of them again. I am sorry we are in to the name calling now because that proves nothing in a debate. By the way the bible was written by men however it was God who placed in their hearts and minds to write it. Im sure you could write a book but it wouldnt hold the test of time like the bible has.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 you havent proven anything to me. The way I know that religion is all mumbo jumbo prestigious dogma and are cults is that you have to look at the newer religions like scientology and mormonism. They all believe in some fairytalistic god. And another thing, why dont you believe in thor, zeus, or any other god. You see were all atheists about other gods, some of us just go one god further.
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 i have no idea how to prove to you over youtube response messages that God is real. Just like i dont expect you to prove to me over youtube message that he isnt real. you of course know that is impossible to try and do over these short messages. I am simply trying to get you to look at the scientist who believe their is a God based on what they have learned scientifically. Many scientist believe that science proves God existence. Yes i dont believe in any other Gods.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 Their beliefs are there own opinions, Most scientists are atheists but there are some who are religious and that is their burden if they want to believe in something that is why it is a free country. Someone shouldnt have to shove their belief system down a persons throat.I have heard from both sides and I know that to me science seems to want to improve humanity and looks for understanding in the real world. Religion doesnt do it for me. Plus the kneeling is seems kinda gay lol
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 I dont know how many scientist are christian however 40% of scientist belief their is most likely a creator. 40% say their is most likely no creator and 20% dont kno. Now just because they belief in a creator doesnt mean they are christian, i am just trying to prove to you that science has no disprove God. I dont want to shove my beliefs down your throat. I have many beliefs that you might not believe in. Like i believe private Health Care is better then public health care.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 "I want to put on the table, not why 85% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences reject God, I want to know why 15% of the National Academy don’t."
85% of members of National Academy of Sciences reject a belief in god. Of the other 15%, they are mostly deists, but they do not believe in the christian god. They believe in a creator only.
ScizRgaming 1 year ago
@ScizRgaming You are right. I looked that up and although some numbers were a little different, it seems that most of your research is right. However you have to take other surveys into count. I did and and it was by historian Edward J. Larson and he asked 1000 scientist including biologists, physicits and mathematicians if they believed in God. About 40 percent said yes. Now i do believe it is more likely that a scientist studying the nature world to be an atheist.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 you must understand that when i am trying to tell you about Jesus i am not simply trying to put my beliefs on you i am trying to save you. Think about what i believe. You know what happens in the end so can you really get mad at me for trying to save you from that? I know you think religion doesnt work for you right now and really religion is a bunch of crap. I just want you to know about Jesus and just cause you dont believe him right now does not mean he isnt real.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 You see thats the problem, is this whole saving thing.Youre trying to save me? From what? How are you so sure that there is something after we die. What if this is the only life we got and we should try to live it to the fullest instead of trying to worship something we dont know is there.That is the problem i have with religion is that it is all based on blind faith and there is no garauntee that there is an afterlife.how do u know there is a heaven, have u been there?
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 how do you know its not true? now i want to make one thing clear. I cannot save you, only Jesus has the power to save. Now It is not all blind faith. Like i have said many times there is plenty of evidence, like how about Jesus raising from the dead. How about how our world works, it is amazing to see nature at work, if you look close enough it is clear their is a creator. My friend i think you know God is real or why else would you even be debating this with me?
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 wheres the evidence for all of this? i just want people to look at REAL evidence thats all.
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 Why would you debate something with someone that is not real. I dont believe in aliens, you dont see me going around debating it with people. That would be wasting my life. You say why not live your life to the fullest well arent you wasting it right now debating it? The things is your not. I believe you know their is a God deep down you just dont want to face it. Their is plenty of evidence my friend. Just God look for it.
gallegs7 1 year ago
@gallegs7 i just wish for people to look at evidence thats all. Truely i wish there was an afterlife when we die, that would be wonderful but I cant draw to the conclusion that there is one. The truth is idk and neither do you so stop worrying.You say there is plenty of evidence, where? I have yet to see any evidence of it
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@slap2tap2 u should ask God to show u where u would go if u died today..He did forme when i was contemplating suicide..I never dooubted again..
patriciacarrasco 1 year ago
@patriciacarrasco Well that's unfortunate you were contemplating suicide. I know if you were my friend i would help you. Now im not saying there isnt a god, Im not certain, but religious people are so certain that there is. I find it much more interesting to be uncertain about things, because it makes me want to understand the world better. I would rather be uncertain than have answers to something which might be wrong.
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@gallegs7 Plus you just made my point on why would you believe in something that is not real. That is why i am debating with you, because I dont see how you believe in something that is not real
slap2tap2 1 year ago
@gallegs7 The point with debating with christians is that atheists feel it is a problem for the world.
It teaches you to be satisfied with no evidence at all, and to take things on "faith".
Faith, by the way, means "belief without evidence"
Also - I'm not sure if you knew this, but the gospels (matt, mark, luke, and john) were written around 70 years after JESUS death. How reliable is that? No christian will debate that fact by the way, they choose to believe it for some reason though
ScizRgaming 1 year ago
@ScizRgaming my point exa