United Steelworkers ECP Anti Scab Rally Change the Law NOW!

[DoctorS8n]

Don't give up until every last union worker gets back in! Don't agree to let the scabs stay! I lost my job due to this fact, they had enough scabs to vote out the Union and we all got shafted. I did not even get a vote to get my job back.

[bugles1]

on our 29 month and still strong

[EpiDemic117]

but DAMN! you guys have BALLS to strike out there for 2 years. Alot of other people would of gave up by then. That really does make a statement.

[IDinoT]

Hang in there brothers and sisters.

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest,

Give me one example of an unregulated free market. There are none. From one end of he globe to the other, economies are rigged by coalitions of corporate and political power using the instrument of the state to stack the deck against the poor. And it is these crooks that you turn to in order to fix the problem? They know they would be toast on a true market system. That us why they keep selling you labour law and the planned economy.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

Holy Rush Limbaugh Boscoe! You just argued my point for me. The rich use whatever means possible to stack the deck against the poor. Are you seriously trying to explain that if there were no labour rights that the rich would suddenly become altruistic and benevolent?

Trust me, my friend, it wasn't the wealthy who decided to do away with child labour. If it was, they'd have abolished in the countries without our labour laws too.

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

No, I am saying if the labour movement had not sold out to the counterfeit "rights" offered by the progressives, exchanging their stealth and apolitical strategies for the comfort of contracts and heavily regulated and circumscribed strikes, the rich would be deprived of another weapon against the real rights of workers.

And do you really think child labour was abolished, and children wound up warehoused in public schools, because the progressives loved the kiddies so much?

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

Sorry you lost me on the first point. Maybe it's the 500 character limit to these responses, but I don't think it was articulated very well because I can't maneuver through the vagueness to get from point "A" to point "B".

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Put another way, the conventional tools of the strike and the collective agreement were not formalized and institutionalized as a means to empower labour, but a means of *domesticating* organized labour, and placing the workforce under rules the bosses could live with and carry on business. Any real defense of labour rights would entail a commitment to freed markets, a rejection of the entire "divide and conquer" (anti-scab) mentality and statist process of bargaining.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

I may be wrong, but aren't "rules that the boss and workers agree with" considered a win-win situation? You keep arguing for a free market, but that assumes that a solitary worker is equal to their employer. I believe that is a fantasy that doesn't exist - especially with the ever-growing multi-national employers. Honestly, how could an average worker be considered equal against investors from JP Morgan and Barclays?

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

I think a freed market *would* put workers on a more equal footing with employers, whether acting alone or in concert. The state has always been the biggest enemy of labour; the bosses never could have pulled it off on their own. Imagine the labour movement had there been no combination laws, no ban on sympathy strikes, and if workers had succesfully fought the efforts to virtually criminalize minority unionism in the 30's and 40's. Forget scabs, the enemy is the state.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

I think we are finally starting to reach equal ground. As you said, "the state becomes the enemy" when the laws are unfair to workers (government not representing the majority). As a result, workers have united and struggled together to have the laws changed towards a more level playing field.

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Although I sympathize with the spirit of your remarks, I think a more level playing field would include dismantling the regulatory framework under which modern unions operate, giving labour it's rightful access to the means of production by ending the money (credit) and land monopolies safeguarded by the state, and deregulating non-union labour as well.

[Bosco20061217]

*Real* solidarity establishes all workers as allies rather than adversaries trying to legislate each other out of existence.

In short, if labour is to regain its radical spirit, it needs to reclaim an organizing principle that rejects the state in favor of direct, non-violent action; that means rolling back decades of allegedly "pro-labour" legislation. It means wildcat and sympathy strikes, random sitdowns etc. In effect, crippling the workplace peacefully. The problem; it's mostly illegal.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

Statistics can be made to indicate growing or decreasing trends. Therefore, wouldn't a statist process of bargaining require "rules that the bosses and workers could live with" too? Let's be realistic, nobody goes on strike because they are greedy - they do it because they believe the offered compensation is unfair and want to negotiate.Frankly, their only leverage is "denial of service". Scabs erase that leverage. That's why this strike has lasted over two years!

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Sure, that's all part of the scam, "here, you guys submit to this formal process during labour disputes and picket where we tell you, and we'll make sure you don't lose all the time."

And while we're being realistic, let's admit the role of peer pressure here. Some guys probably just don't want to strike, and go along because dissenting could make life a living hell for them. If they are hostile to outsiders (scabs), just imagine the invective reserved for "traitors".

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

I think you are grasping for straws with the "Some guys probably just don't want to strike" argument. A union is a democracy based on solidarity. Everyone has one vote and everyone needs to realize that they are stronger if they remain united (even if they don't like the vote). Try and put away any prejudices and see the workers as "people". Don't forget, the contract is rarely accepted by a 100% vote. Wouldn't the members be intimidated by the majority in those cases too?

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

As for your response to child labour laws, I'm not going to debate the merits of the public school system. Frankly, that really has nothing to do with my original statement ("It wasn't the wealthy who decided to do away with child labour"). However, I do believe that going to school is probably less harmful to children than -say - a career as a coal miner.

[iamjamiewest]

Bosco,

It baffles me how you can ignore the facts and continue to spout this sort of rhetoric. Have a look at "competitive labour" in countries like China, Taiwan, and India. Those workers are free from "government backing" and "enforced collective agreements". That's probably why they are treated so well by their employers and rewarded so handsomely for working so hard!

[iamjamiewest]

Bosco,

It baffles me how you can ignore the facts and continue to spout this sort of rhetoric. Have a look at "competitive labour" in countries like China, Taiwan, and India. Their workers are free from "government backing" and "enforced collective agreements". That's probably why they are treated so well by their employers and rewarded so handsomely for a full days' work!

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Are countries like China, Taiwan, and India supposed to be examples of laissez faire economic systems? Yeah, that's just what these people need; an army of labour bureacrats to join in the corporate looting largely made possible by such state socialist institutions as the World Bank, the IMF and the WTO. It's political repression, not the free market (there is no free market there) that keeps the sweatshop workers in line, with the help of the state labour federation.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

Give me one example of a nation where the middle class was improved by an unregulated free market. Let me help you with the math - there are none. The reality is that an unregulated free market leads to the incredibly rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class becoming the working poor.

[iamjamiewest]

Hang in there brothers and sisters.

Don't listen to the nay-sayers. It doesn't matter if we make minimum wage or 5 times that amount. All of us should be concerned when corporations increase the profits by trying to force people to work for less money. The Canadian dream that we tell our children is that they have the right to live a middle-class life, and not that they'll be forced to spend their adult lives as the working poor.

Your courage to stand strong makes me proud to be Canadian.

[Bosco20061217]

So people who can't even get a min wage job should feel sorry for labour monopolists bumped from 20 to 15 per hour? Uh, yeah.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

Actually, yeah. if you're struggling to find a minimum wage job, then you should be concerned with the erosion of any better paying jobs. Frankly, your goal shouldn't be a McJob, it should be to find a middle-class career job. Fewer available well-paying jobs is bad for everyone.

I understand the impulse to believe that less money for them would be "fair" to you, but that $5/hr cut won't find it's way into your pocket - it will go into the pocket of a millionaire.

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Actually, fewer jobs artificially priced above market rates and sustained by banning competitive labour is good for everyone, except the labour monopolists, that is.

And the legislative privileges enjoyed by modern unions are designed to restrict access to the job market by raising the cost of non-union labour. The objective is not ultimately higher wages for non-union labour, but unemployment.. To argue otherwise is absurd considering this video illustrates it so vividly.

[iamjamiewest]

@Bosco20061217

I find it interesting that what I call a "McJob", you claim to be "competitive labour". Frankly, that is an obtuse statement. These jobs aren't "artificially priced above market conditions", they are middle-class jobs. You might be satisfied with the erosion of the middle class, but I don't believe that Canada should be filled with second-class citizens who live their lives as the working poor, so that the CEO can guarantee increased profits for their shareholders.

[Bosco20061217]

@iamjamiewest

Yes, the price of union labour *is* artificially forced above market rates. If it wasn't, it would not need the backing of government compelled and enforced "collective agreements", and the union would not be wailing about people willing to do the work for less for employers willing to hire them. And the strikers would accept employment with other companies paying the "market rate, with no need to waste their skills drinking coffee day after day on the front lawn of ECP.

[Bosco20061217]

(cont)

If you are truly concerned about the plight of the middle class, you need smaller government, less taxes, a deregulated job market and bargaining power restored to individuals rather than state-corporate managers and legislators.

[Bosco20061217]

It's sad that the "representatives" of the modern labour movement can only offer old-fashioned bigotry and a fear competition. The union as we know it has come and gone.

[shitz420]

STAY STRONG!!! we need all of north america to band together

one big union!!!!!!!

our provinces all are fighting for anti scab

we need it TALK TO YOUR GOVERNMENTS!!!!!!!!!

but you americans need to fight real hard much harder than we do in canada

we all need to bring the solidarity back ! bring in the pride in our towns! in our neibourhoods!!!

in solidarity

usw local 7913

manitoba

canada

[lps45s8tracks]

Check out Facebook S.O.L.D Stamp Out Labour Dicrimination

[lps45s8tracks]

So Sad that we have a Government that promotes this Crap.

We no longer have a Government for Da People especially Da Little Guy

Unions have gone Da Way of Da Government no longer for Da Little Guy.

Any Union that allows Temps Services have no right to call themselves a Union.Why do you pay union dues for.

[connselmerstrike]

Our company did the same thing here in Elkhart, Indiana U.S.A. Conn Selmer Strike 2006-2009. The community support would have helped but we got no sympathy even the mayor wanted the strikers to go back in and wait for a better next time. There won't be a better next time so hold out, we tried and failed because the UAW ran a poor strike. Get publicity on your side and write to politicians. Tell your story, we didn’t, we lost.

[bigmikebiker]

@connselmerstrike Thanks brother and we know you are right. We have held out longer than anyone including the big locals at Vale Inco Sudbury and US steel Lake Erie Works. We know if we cave that the company won't stop until we are all making minimum wage with no pension and no benefits. To hell with that! Thanks for watching.

[EpiDemic117]

@connselmerstrike Well the UAW is crooked, And I believe that it isn't managed right. They spend most of their time bashing their competitors while they silence some of their members and have some of the big shots pocket a portion of the bailout money they received. Is it necessary to post out on the UAW halls "no foreign vehicles allowed"? That just generates even MORE bad publicity towards the UAW. Despite the fact that most "foreign" vehicles are made here.

[EpiDemic117]

@connselmerstrike I understand trying to save some of the Detroit companies but FUCK man! the least they could of done is use those resources to restructure and rethink a few things. But alot of the heads got a big paying cut out of it and more of the working members got squashed and caped as a result. They shouldn't of bailed out Chrysler though. Fuck Chrysler, most of their products are shitty with the Dodge division, and 300 being the only exception.