What family members do you impregnate, steal and then slaughter the baby and then take the milk meant for that baby? What family member do you butcher and eat when they get 'too old?'
@CapeRabbit Cows are impregnated when they are in heat like most domestic animals. it is not forced and if it bothered them, you wold know it. they are 5 times your size. Calves are taken at early age because their immunity system is very vulnerable to disease so we make sure they have everything they need to stay alive. Calves are raised, bull calves are being sold to people who raise them for many purposes. the veal industry is depleting, which doesnt affect many of us.
Beaelliot-really? Then why do we have canines? Vegetarian animals dont have those. Species like us yes that are MEANT to eat both meat and plant have the teeth for it. And if youre for not using animals against their will, why do you have dogs? They should be free too, by your reasoning. And your dogs are vegetarian? Why are you going against their nature?!?!? Theyre carnivores for petes sake!!! They're supposed to eat meat! Our mouths are proof we're supposed to eat meat, and theirs are too.
To those who think it's animal cruelty: up around 4:00 am, to feed them, so they're happy. To milk them, so they don't get sick. To clean their pens so they're comfortable. To make sure they have hay and water so they're happy. To repeat the once or twice during the day. Our lives REVOLVE around them, and their comfort.
And if you think it's because it's for profit, then why do we all have a second job? Why is it one of the lowest paying jobs in America? Because we LOVE them. You aren't cruel to something you love. You do what's best for them, and abuse ain't gonna get you anywhere with anyone.
@celticfarmgirl Please look up the word "LOVE" you are using it entirely in the wrong context. What's best for them is that they be allowed to live the full lives they have. Being judged or condemned for being "dry" or nonproductive doesn't qualify as "love". Sorry.
@beaelliott How DARE you question my love for my animals, considering you've never met me! I know that I AM using it in the CORRECT context. I LOVE my animals, and I cried when I had to say goodbye. We only have to sell them because we can't afford to give them the care they deserve if they aren't producing. And they are not "judged" or "condemned" for anything. So get your facts straight!!!
@celticfarmgirl What were they bred and raised for initially? For profit or to "produce" something - Yes? And then when they no longer serve that purpose adequately - Their lives are forfeited because their "value" is worth less than capital. It's very simple. I don't misunderstand your situation at all. "Love" doesn't put a price tag on someone's life. Sorry.
@beaelliott they're not a "Someone" THEY AREN'T HUMAN. I love them, and you haven't seen me around them, so you can't say boo about it. Yes, I love them. I think my heifers are some of my best friends. Yes, it has to do with capital. Doesn't mean we like it. But there are things that happen in life that we don't like. We do what's best for them. If we can't afford to provide for them, how is it fair to them to keep them? You have no right to tell us how to live our lives.
@celticfarmgirl Oh there is definitely a "some one" there - A being who is sentient and aware of their existence. These are not rocks or sticks or vegetables or buildings - These are beings who love their lives just like any of us does. If they are your "best friends" certainly you'd know that they are someones not some "things".
Things that "happen" in life that we don't like? You mean like freely choosing a profession that requires the taking of life and then regretting doing so?Bizarre.
@beaelliott they don't have consciences... they aren't ruled by their emotions like you are. They think on instinct. And that was not what I meant about things happening in life.
@celticfarmgirl I hope you know scientists and ethologists are making new discoveries about nonhumans all the time. What we thought we knew about their emotional world once is totally different now. It was less than 100 years ago that nonhumans were thought not to be "aware" at all-Like "machines.There's no telling what we'll discover in the decades to come.
Yes, things happen in life-Doesn't give us any right to further harm along. We are the "thinking" species-Therefore ought to act as such.
@beaelliott I meant things like cattle being dry so they cannot care for a calf (which would still happen in the wilderness, and the calf would die, so we save the calf from starvation.
@celticfarmgirl No artificial insemination? No genetic selection? Hum - Please google dairy bull semen - And dairy A.I. Cows are not rabbits - They would not be birthing calves every year. Even so... If they did... That would be nature - Not "management" or "husbandry".
@beaelliott Um, they can't have more than one calf a year. If you knew your facts, they have a nine month gestation period, just like humans. And as they are milked for more than one month, and then dried off and NOT WORKED for at least two months, (all those numbers add up to twelve) they don't have a calf a year. And yeah, I know what AI is. Please don't insult my intelligence that deeply.
@celticfarmgirl I knew they carried for 9 months-just like humans.They have sons and daughters too- Even the industry will use those terms.(odd)So we're fussing over a few months of "vacation"?Please.
@celticfarmgirl There are plenty of sanctuaries out there that get up at 4 a.m. --- clean pens, feed, groom, etc. Your lives REVOLVE around them because they are money machines.
@beaelliott oh you wish they were, because that would make your fact true, wouldn't it? Fact is we all have second jobs to keep the farm afloat, because it's NOT ABOUT MONEY which you would know if you paid attention to johndeerekid623's comments.
@celticfarmgirl Wait! Just a comment below - You said you had to "say goodbye" because they weren't "producing"... That IS making money for you right? They just weren't making "enough".
If there was no market for meat or dairy... Zero people buying either. Would you still do what you do? Not hardly.
@beaelliott shows how much you know. I'd still have cows because I LOVE THEM. you clearly just don't see how a farmer loves their life. I'm sorry money means too much to you for you to understand that.
@celticfarmgirl Yes of course you LOVE THEM! Just keep saying it over and over again and somebody surely will be convinced. I think love is more than words - It's action and deeds. I would NEVER claim to "love" someone if I conspired to end their lives once they no longer were useful (profitable) to me.
But that's me and my concept of love.If you think the betrayal of an innocent life in exchange for dollars is "love"-then go right ahead & believe anything you want.But it remains false to me.
@beaelliott yeah... you keep thinking that. It's that or they get to die from starvation, because we can't afford to feed them. But okay, we're cruel for not starving them.
@celticfarmgirl I'm assuming then - That if one had to relinquish animals because they could not afford to feed them that they'd try to place them in loving homes first... Like a sanctuary. Did you try that? And certainly, if you could not feed the others - You're not about to make or buy more - Right? So you're out of the dairy business... Wonderful news! Good for you! ;)
@beaelliott Not quite... Teachers wouldn't send their "unsuccessful" student off to the packing house - A dedicated teacher might privately tutor that student without pay. That would be equivalent to keeping cows after they no longer "produced". Do you think many dairies do that? Keep the boy calves too?
@beaelliott the veal industry is on a decline which doesnt affect me or many of the farms surrounding me because we never sent for veal, now the big thing is to raise them to get what little money we can out of them. and we do have individual plans for cows to keep them going. we never like to see a cow leave the farm
@beaelliott Its very hard seeing a 10-12 year old cow that you have raised from calf to adult, seen everyday, taken care etc leave. It is never a good thing to see one leave
@johndeerekid623 So innocent these creatures are - Sad for the ones who meet their fate under economic "necessity". I'm certainly working and living towards a day when this tragedy of early death/slaughter is no longer a reality.
@beaelliott so even after death, they're still helping the human race, whether it be by giving us food, or by helping us find cures for diseases, or just in our way of life. And believe me, it's engrained in us. Do you use bandages? Wall paper? sheetrock? emery boards? Glue? Shaving Cream? Soap? Mouthwash? Toothpaste? Perfume? Paint? Cosmetics? Candles? Cellophane? Ceramics? Did you ever use Film? Pet food? linoleum?Deodorant? (I sincerely hope so). They give us more than leather and beef.
@celticfarmgirl They do not "give" us food. Their flesh is taken by force.
You assume that had we not used nonhumans we'd be lost.Challenge yourself a bit. There's nothing saying that we might not have improved and advanced our health, our environment, our economy and our culture a hundred fold had we not pursued plant based subsistence.You don't have a crystal ball.
Lastly-Of the products you mention there are substitutes for everything.Really?I'm going to kill life for tape?My dogs are veg.
@beaelliott they also give us insulin (I'm sure the diabetics love how you're going to stop them from gettin insulin.) Chymotrypsin(heals burns&wounds) Liver extract (treats anemia), Bone Marrow (treats blood disorders), Pressor Hormone (regulates blood pressure), ACTH (treats arthritis and allergies), Blood factors (treat hemophilia) Iron (treats anemia) and Thrombin (helps blood clot). Having been anemic, I'm glad we have these. They benefit us in ways we NEED.
@celticfarmgirl Again... There's no telling where we might have advance medically had we endeavored down a different path. And most of the ills you site might not even exist had we nourished ourselves with healthier foods than dead flesh.
@beaelliott but if you want to tell someone with diabetes, lukemia, hemophilia, an allergy, who's anemic or who has thin blood, be my guest. But as you said, animals think in terms of survival. So do we. It's natural.
@celticfarmgirl What if I give you the 1% of animal use as a valid point... How do you explain the 99% of the other animals used as a "food" that is NOT necessary?
@beaelliott one more thought. would you tell someone in Africa, who benefits from Heifer international, that it's cruel to keep their one of their only sources of survival, be it a goat, a rooster, a cow, a donkey, etc; so they can go hungry? Go ahead. let me know how far you get.
@celticfarmgirl HI is a joke - Please research - They cause more poverty and famine than what they profess they cure. Villages have been known to forgo giving themselves water to "save" the cow or goat. They can't even grow vegetation for themselves - What little they manage to find they feed to to "stock".The animal is worth more than the child - They've withheld food from their own kids to keep the "cash cow" alive. Please investigate for yourself. Read Jean Ziegler:"The cannibal world order"
@beaelliott if you knew how sanctuaries work, you'd know that they can't always afford to take on another animal, because of the same reason we can't keep them. And you don't appear to be open-minded enough to even discuss the second part
@celticfarmgirl No. Sadly sanctuaries can't take millions of "spent" dairy cows. And sadder still is that the industries won't stop creating more! What second part?
@beaelliott well, people are still in a demand for milk, for drinking, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, ect; so we do need to still provide for those that aren't as closed-minded.
@celticfarmgirl "Demands" change over time... The more people learn - The more new products that replace "old" ones - The more issues that arise - The more that markets will adapt. ;)
@beaelliott well, we're doing our best to combat the issues such as abuse and maltreatment, which you can't see, because you only see what you want to see. But farmers know to ignore your bullcrap, because it's just that. We know that you don't see the whole picture, and that you don't want to.
@celticfarmgirl The whole principle behind meat, dairy and eggs is abusive.It uses living beings as commodities.Economic systems necessitate the destruction of those who aren't of value. I know the whole picture quite well.I fear it is you and others who don't.
You refuse to see that these are beings with their own wants and desires-Top of the list is they don't want to be killed.Taking their lives is against their best interest.You just fail to see the violence/wrong in that. My eyes are open.
Here is some food for thought about those who complain about hormones in milk, soymilk actually contains phytoestrogens, which when consumed, raise the level of estrogen in one's body to a higher level than dairy milk ever would.
In addition, a counter to the person who talked about the sanctuary, I have seen more times than not that, the mom does not really care about the calf, and in some instances tries to actually kill the calf. As many have said to those who do not like dairy farms, you cannot possibly make a totally informed stance on dairy farms until you actually go to one for yourself.
you can't even make a totally informed stance on dairy farms then. It takes more than one visit for a couple hours to begin to comprehend it. Try living and working on one for years. Then come tell me why you don't like one.
This is not to say animals do not have feelings, but their feelings are different from any human. Moreover, for those of you who complain about the calves being taken away from the cow at birth, this is done for the calf's protection. By removing the calf from the mother, we are preventing the calf from possibly getting any disease from the environment or even the mother herself.
I bet many of the vegans and vegetarians do not realize that we make some plastics, medicines, and adhesives from milk proteins. In addition, as far as when the animal is at the end of her life, not only does she provide us with meat, she also provides use with hundreds of other products, in the form of byproducts. Another issue is the fact that people feel that animals experience emotions the same way as humans. There have been studies done that disprove thisdo some homework and look it up.
I find it offensive that people seem to feel that because they "know all" that they can say bad things about dairy farmers. I have been involved in the dairy industry for years, and I can honestly say that it is asinine to think that farmers don't care about their animals and the only reason that people like me are in the industry only do it for profit. Furthermore, I see some people have an issue with the use of artificial insemination.
What a great video that quickly puts the importance of dairy farming into context, for people cows and the environment. I am going to show this to everyone on my team who helps produce high quality milk each day by carefully caring for our beautiful cows! We are proud to be just one of the farms helping to feed families across America!
@beaelliot I don't disagree with you that there are a lot of hardworking people out there, but I think it is truly unfair for you to say that working on a farm, including dairy, is not unique! These people spend countless hours caring for their animals, in both good and bad weather conditions. Even when it is a holiday, they don't get the day off... they still have to feed their animals. So unless you have actually worked on a farm or ranch, you can't judge the kind of work they do!
@NEfarmkid They spend countless hours because of the money involved... Not the "love" of the animals. Talk to someone who works in a sanctuary --- They care for untold dozens of living beings round the clock too... Without a single cent seen as payment in a "product" or a slaughterhouse. Stop trying to make being in the business of peddling flesh some kind of holy profession. It's killing for money no matter how "nicely" it's made to look.
Thank you to all of the hardworking dairy farmers and their families for providing a safe and abundant supply of milk and dairy products! Just because some people don't like dairy products doesn't mean that everyone must stop drinking/eating dairy products. It is America, we have a choice!
@NEfarmkid Many people work hard-Dairy ranchers aren't unique in that respect.
Now -Your point about not liking dairy-It's the practices that are abominable.From forcing milk & cheese in schools to the "retiring" of healthy cows to keep prices fixed.This corruption can't possibly be a "choice" for people concerned with healthy eating habits for kids or for any one who sees the injustice of taking innocent lives. It's not like dairy is necessary for anything else but economic gain.
Human children and adults have ZERO need to drink cow's milk or any milk for that matter. I quit drinking milk & rely on better sources of calcium. I have significantly reduced my respiratory congestion & my fat levels. I have no reason to drink milk & will never again be the American over-consumer I used to be, because I have finally learned to seek out facts instead of believing all the phony advertising. Shame on America for rolling in fat as long as there are people starving anywhere.
1) Many kids are allergic to soy and nuts so those will never be alternatives to cow milk in school. They already ban peanut butter from school.
2) Only animal proteins including milk contain all amino acids...unlike plant products..which are fortified by the way as well.
3)Cows naturally fertilize the land, returning unused nutrients to the soil for later use. Without cows you will need to buy synthetic/mined minerals from far away. Even vegetables need minerals to grow.
Thank you to all the local soy,wheat, oat, corn, sunflower, etc for purchasing compost from our dairy. Hope you were able to turn in a profitable year for all your veggie/vegan followers.
I like the positive spin of this message, however it is clearly biased toward large scale dairies. There is a direct connection between farm scale and animal/human intimacy or "family" connection they portray. Many large scale dairy operations milk their cows 3 times a day, thus cutting the productive lifespan of the animal. These large operations also hire workers to do the milking who do not have direct stake in the farm. It is in these factory scale farms that the cow becomes a machine.
Merck how much did you have to spend on this video?? Did you start working on it before or after you started injecting girls and now boys with the HPV shot that is killing and making many people sick? As a dairy farmer, you guys sicken me, like you support dairies while all along you screw us when we turn around.
@beaelliot Dairy farmers don't hold them selves above creation. The Lord made us all equal; farmers, lawyers, or McDonald's fry cooks. In my experience, farmers are some of the most honest, humble, and hard working people out there. We don't work 365 days a year out of an inflated ego or sense of self righteousness, we're just doing what God calls all of us to do: be good stewards of what we have been given. And Dairy Farmers do that by taking care of the land, their animals and their families.
@MNFarmgirl1 Yes! We are ALL equal in that we ALL value our lives with equal desire to hold on to it. ANY life seized is done so by force. Of course "gOd" is the only one who has the "right" to take or control life. Lots and lots of people work 365 days a year - But not raising other beings to kill. And especially not under the pretense of providing "care" to anyone but themselves. Sure- I appreciate that it's a job... But a calling to kill? That's quite presumptive of what "god" intended.
@beaelliott I think you should think about what your trying to say a little before you call honest hard working people out and saying they are wrong for trying to make a living. It is people like you who say the farmers are "being cruel" and are "playing god" and need to change the way they farm but then point fingers and say its their fault when there isnt enough food to feed the people in the world. You have all the answers for the worlds problems dont you? why dont you shove your almond milk
@Maak1001 Hi - It's no secret that it takes an incredible amount of grain, land, water and other resources to raise "meat" animals. All that land could go to planting human food. The US is not suffering from deprivation but from over-indulgence on animal based protein. It's causing health issues, is petroleum intensive and totally wasteful. Do I want to feed the world? Yes! A billion humans die every year from starvation - while we push our western eating habits abroad.Who's being selfish?
@Maak1001 It's not me... It's reality. It takes 6 to 10 times more crops to derive a "meat based product" than it does to directly consume the plants. This is why there isn't enough food to go around: "Food First’s Frances Moore Lappé asks people to imagine sitting down to an eight-ounce steak, and then, “imagine the room filled with 45 to 50 people with empty bowls ...For the feed cost of your steak, each of their bowls could be filled with a full cup of cooked cereal grains.”
@beaelliott okay but if its the feed that is your huge problem with farmers, then why dont you turn on the government officials who think the answer to the fuel crisis is to turn that corn (that any ruminant will use more efficiently than any single stomached being like us) into fuel for cars?? putting gas in a vehicle isnt feeding people like feeding cattle that can be slaughtered and milked can.
@Maak1001 Even before crops were being used for ethenol feed was wasted... Fattening nonhumans. The starving aren't being fed steaks and chops or burgers are they? We should be shipping "excess" grain to those in need... Not expanding our "western" diets upon them. It's not sustainable. We in "meat, egg and dairy" eating countries are not lacking for nourishment - In fact we consume twice the protein we need. Sadly most of it is animal protein. Excessive and unnecessary.
@IngeniousFirefly Perhaps at the crux of it all is something very sour in our economic system? That people should starve for the sake of others who must profit or have power is quite telling of a failed formula.
What destroys local economies is dictating that high-yield crops be planted-Usually for the sake of animal feed.
We ARE trying to stop dictators over oil right?Obviously there are better things to fight over.
Maybe ranchers should be ousted from the farm bill anyway to grow human food.
@IngeniousFirefly You see... My issues aren't necessarily 3rd world as whatever problems they have - If we do better in "First World" - They will inevitably benefit. Furthermore... Addressing problems surrounding meat/egg/dairy is VERY do-able in our own backyards. Now more than at any time there is an abundance of alternative foods that don't create quite the negative consequences. The time is now - And the place is here.
Animals are not only kept for their milk in third-world countries, but other animal products which they provide making those high-yield crops very valuable. Again, those
@IngeniousFirefly Again - I'm not saying that other developing countries should abandon their only means of survival... I'm saying that here and now WE - sitting comfortably behind our computer screens - Can opt to do better by the environment, make better use of resources, improve our health AND stop "using" innocent beings for the profitable end their bodies serve. It's no longer necessary! Adapt for progress.
@Maak1001 This is what happens when the 2% of us farmers have to feed the other 98%. There are bound to be misunderstandings in the way we do our jobs. Yes we do make our livings farming, but believe me if I didn't love these cows I would definately be finding another way to make a buck, maybe a way that involved a day off...
Many calves drink the milk from cows... Just not always their own mothers. Dairy cows produce milk for 10 months or a little more and calves are weaned after 2 months. A Dairy cow is so efficient that she makes more than 1 calf and many times more than several calves can eat.
People feed milk or use milk "Powdered milk" for several reasons. Depending on your herd dynamics.. (Convenience, health, ect)
Also, it is harder for our bodies to use foods that have Vitamin D and calcium than it is for cows to convert it for us. The goverment does not force milk at school lunches, but rather requires them to provide its students with a nutritious product essential for healthy growth. Regular skim milk has 10 times more calcium than soy milk and 2 times more calcium than almond milk. Other than that they are compareable. But I love milk, and I love my dairy cows even more.
How much cow's milk do the calves drink? What happens to the baby male calves? Why do you send healthy "over productive" cows to an early slaughter? Why are humans the only species not to ever be weaned? Can't we get the calcium and D directly from where the cows get it from? If your product is so wonderful - Why do you need the government to force milk at school lunches? Why do you only compare cow's milk nutrition against juice and soda? Why not almond, rice or soy milks? Why dairy?
Other than the colostrum the first days of birth, calves aren't usually fed their mother's milk. They are fed a substitute which allows farmers to ensure they are meeting all their nutritional needs. It also prevents the spread of disease from cow to calf. On my farm, baby male calves are grown on our farm to maturity and then sold.. Healthy, efficient cows are not sent to slaughter, but sometimes farmers have to make decisions to sell their cows that are no longer productive.
@MNFarmgirl1 Hum - "Mature" could also mean old enough to go to slaughter right? And isn't that legally about 14 or so days old? If it was a potentially "unproductive" calf that is... That's so odd that nature would not have provided enough nourishment in a mothers milk to be adequate. Hum... But "essential" for human adults --- Very odd indeed. Healthy, efficient cows aren't sent to slaughter? What about the CWT herd "retirement" program that's in the midst of a lawsuit for price fixing?
@beaelliott On my farm, mature means full grown 1500 lb steers. Males are still as productive as females, they just arent producing milk, they produce meat. Nature does provide adequate nourishment in mothers milk, but the formula humans provide has the ability to go above and beyond that. CWT was lowering supply to raise demand in order to stabilize a flooded market. For that to work, all cows in a herd had to be removed. Unfortunately, even the healthy ones.
@MNFarmgirl1 Yes.That is unfortunate - Even for those consumers who paid a higher price for milk while their tax dollars went to providing dairy in schools as well. Guess they got it from both ends of the stick. And dairy ranchers provide better nourishment than even nature could! That certainly sets you folks right up there with the best of creation doesn't it? "Above" as you said... But what exactly is "bob veal" or kip veal? Just curious how old those "unproductive" males are. Thanks.
@beaelliott I guess we're all in the same boat as far as paying more at the grocery store goes. But milk isn't the only food that has gotten more expensive. And I am glad to live in a country where tax payers help provide the children with nutritious school meals that include dairy products. I'm not very familiar with veal production, because my family has never been involved with it. But from what I could find, bob veal is the meat of calves about 150 lbs or 3 months old, according to the FDA.
@MNFarmgirl1 I wouldn't mind paying for healthy healthy foods for kids either... That's why I'm so against (force) feeding kids dairy on everything. My nutritionist says that dairy and meat turn the blood acidic which in turn leeches calcium. I used to have arthritis but since I've given up dairy years ago - It went away... Also my weight stabilized. But I'm not the only one this has happened to... I've met hundreds on line who say the same thing. Re Kip? Poor little ones - not even a mention.
@beaelliott In my school, we are given the option of milk and occasionaly yogurt for breakfast, and cheese as a topping for burgers or sloppy joes. The only meals that come with dairy already on them are pizza and macaroni and cheese. Yes dairy sometimes has adverse effects on some people. But considering that millions of people consume dairy, there are bound to be a few that feel these effects. I didnt mention kip because I couldnt find any info on it.Could you tell me what you know about it?
@MNFarmgirl1 The reason why dairy has adverse effects is that after we are weaned our body no longer produces the enzymes to digest the lactose. For people who are "intolerant" - This is not a "disease" but a natural condition that ALL mammals experience. You actually have to condition the body to accept the milk - I know a school nurse and she says the amount of sick kids after consuming dairy at lunch is astounding. The cure? They give "lactaid" to the kids! That just doesn't make sense!
@beaelliott Thankfully, they make lactose free milk for people with lactose intolerence!! Hopefully, someday soon, they will have this option in schools for kids can't drink regular milk, but still want to experience the great benefits from consuming dairy products. :)
@MNFarmgirl1 Benefits? Benefits that you can get from plant based milks that are also "fortified" with everything in cow's milk... Hum - Why go through all the trouble of drinking cow's milk when almond, rice, oat, sunflower, flax-seed, coconut, hazelnut or soy milks have all the "benefits" but none of the negatives? Doesn't make sense to go through the cow when you can get it naturally from plants. More environmentally sustainable and certainly kinder to the animals too! ;)
@beaelliott your the people giving dairy farmers a bad name. we dont raise to kill. we raise to milk. think before you comment with your peta crap. most of these viewers are dairy farmers so your kind of on your own
I am not a member of peta-Not hardly. I stand by my own good judgment based on facts accumulated through reliable sources. I also have no problem being on my own as it were.I have every confidence that truth is on my side.Don't need a mob or "group" to validate reality.We don't need to be the only UNWEANED species on the planet. It's NOT "normal" to drink the mammary secretions from cows, goats, donkeys, pigs or any other nursing mother. It's also not kind-as the baby needs the milk more than I.
@beaelliott If you dont want to drink it then dont. thats fine. Let everybody else do what they want. The cows are healthy and happy and could care less where their milk is going.
@johndeerekid623 Ah, but they do care where their babies go... And all decent people stick up for the oppressed and exploited among us... Besides, human adults drinking the milk that belongs to baby calves doesn't seem right, "natural", or kind at all.
Have you ever lived, worked, or even been on a dairy farm. I have. my entire life. The things you say are false mostly because you dont have any clue what your talking about. I and my family take care of 300 cows 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, christmas, new years and every other day. Its what we love to do and we only care about our animals well being. Learn some REAL facts and not stuff you read on the internet
@johndeerekid623 Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement - then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old? Those ARE facts. You take care of cows because they make money for you - You are NOT a sanctuary!
@beaelliott If you knew anything about dairy farming, you would know that its not about the money at all. because its not a high paying job by any means. Its about the animals. You think we only care about money and just treat the cows like crap. My entire life revolves around cows because i love them. You need to know what its like to live on a farm instead of standing on the side lines and base everything off what you see and hear.
@johndeerekid623 I respectfully request that you address these questions if you wish to stay credible: "Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement-then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old?"The answers will determine your extent of "love".
@beaelliott I have dairy cows that are 12 years old, we keep every heifer and we send bull calves to a man that raises oxen.Calves are removed from their mothers, for their safety. You address my questions,Do you know anything about dairy farming other than what you hear from animal rights propaganda films?Have you ever thought that every single thing we do is for the animals well being?Have you ever put yourself in a farmers shoes?I respectfully request that you address these to stay credible
@beaelliott And who the hell are you to question my love for dairy cows. my life revolves around them, keeping the safe, happy, and healthy. not for money, because its what i like to do. You still no nothing about dairy farming outside of your propaganda videos
@johndeerekid623 Who am I? A former consumer of dairy. I resent the lies that were hidden from me while I was purchasing cow's milk. As an ethical "vegetarian" I was against harming other beings. That was my right to demand honesty about the products I was buying! But there's nothing in the whole marketing of dairy that gave me a clue about the stolen calves or the slaughter of the males.This was deceitful. I would never have supported these practices with my "voting" dollar.My money was stolen!
@johndeerekid623 You "love" your cows... When they make you a nice profit! You keep your cows "safe" unless they are no longer "productive" - Then every thing changes doesn't it? Are they "safe" from the packing house when feed/medication costs more than what their bodies are worth per pound?
I know enough sir, to read your motives like a cheap novel... There's no surprise ending to your "bottom line".
Run a sanctuary - Work 2 public jobs just to keep the cows ALIVE! Now THAT's love!
@beaelliott Once again,Dairy farming is one of the least paying jobs in the u.s. 98% of them family owned.Everybody has a seperate job to support the farm. Cows dont make hardly any profit.Cows are kept safe 24/7. Torture and cruelty doesnt make since if we are try to get something out of cows now is it? Most dairy farms barely get by because its so difficult make a dollar. Once again,do some research,go to an ACTUAL dairy farm and learn from ACTUAL people that run the farms and get ACTUAL facts
@johndeerekid623 Dairy industries manage to operate because of consumption subsidies.The gov guarantees to "buy" a certain amount of cheese, cream, milk, etc. for schools and other institutions. Also protected by trade alliances-About the only thing saving US milk now is the export market.
If you are slaughtering cows simply because they stopped having babies or stopped "giving" milk-that's hardly "safe" at all!Please at least own up to what your practices entail! You kill when dollar dictates!
@beaelliott The advancement in genetics is making it nearly guarenteed a heifer calf, and that cows have a long productive life so that farmers dont lose any more money then they already are. Every cow on the farm gets their fair shake.
@johndeerekid623 Just curious - How many cows and calves were sacrificed, born dead, or died in pain while genetics were being "manipulated"? And sorry - But I even doubt the technology as it would be available to humans too.And it's still an uncertain roll of the dice as to what sex a human child will be born.
Lastly, you're idea of what a cow's "fair shake" is makes me shudder.Guess they get a chance to be "valuable" or their killed. Plain and simple -Nothing fair there if viewed objectively.
@beaelliott You have no right to question my love for my animals, the way i run my farm, and the way i treat my cows with respect. You also do not know the dairy industry from the point of view of the honest hard working people that run it. 365 days a year every cow is cared for. My family hasnt gone on a vacation in 25 years. because we are dedicated to our dairy farming. You can take your opinion and " Facts " and shove it
@johndeerekid623 Please - Tell me why I don't have a right to an opinion about the dairy industry based on solid information obtained from agriculture websites? It is truth that the cows are artificially inseminated. I disagree with that practice as a female. It is truth that the babies are separated from the mothers - I disagree with that practice from a parent's POV and a child's. It is fact that many unweaned infants go to slaughter - That's disgusting from a caring human's perspective.
it's not that you don't have a right to an opinion. It's that your opinion is uninformed. Yeah, you have a website. Guess what. We have an entire lifetime's firsthand experience. what website did you use?
@celticfarmgirl Am I uninformed? "Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement-then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old?"
@beaelliott you don't pay attention to the WHOLE FACT that's in front of you, just the part you want to see. No, it isn't. but as johndeerekid623 said, it's for the safety calves. And yeah, it's false that the infiants go "many times at 14 days old". And I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to eat a dairy cow, because they don't have much meat on their bones, unlike beef cattle. So yeah, I'd say that's false.
@celticfarmgirl For the safety of the calves... That shouldn't have been brought into this world to begin with. You can't put a dog in a building, then set the building in flames, then wring your hands on how to "save" him! Don't put the dog in that position initially!
"Bob veal" or "slink veal" mean anything to you? What about "kip leather"?
@celticfarmgirl I'm not affiliated with peta - There are about 850 other "animal rights" organizations that suit my ideology better. Please google "animal rights" or better "vegan" and pick who/where such info comes from - It's everywhere.
@beaelliott yeah, the animal rights argument is still stupid, as they're ANIMALS not humans, and as you know, I stand for animal WELFARE which means proper and responsible treatment of them.
@celticfarmgirl I know. We're debating what "proper" and "responsible" treatment is or isn't. I think disposing of beings after they no longer "produce" fails the test.
@celticfarmgirl "Self esteems"? What in the world are you trying to refer to? Are you implying that if I violate the body of a stroke patient or someone in a coma that it doesn't matter because they aren't aware? Because they too defecate without control and don't get embarrassed over it?
It's not what the victims "feels" that is shameful. It's what the perpetrator initiates. That's where the angst should lie.And yes... There have been former ranchers who regretted their treatment to nonhumans.
@johndeerekid623 Finally, I know plenty of people who don't take vacations (I haven't had one in 22 years) - Many also work very hard jobs 7 days a week - Sometimes working 70 hours. I know both my husband and I did when we were younger...
Now, just because work is hard - Doesn't mean the job is honest. Sorry if truth offends you so... You might want to investigate why you're so touchy about defining what words really mean in context to the "care" you say you give to cows.
Once again, until you own and run a dairy farm. you will not understand. Artificial insemination is better than having a 1 ton bull jump mount a cow. it also helps improve the genectics and health of the cows family. calves are seperated for safety. You obviously will never understand the industry because you get your info from internet. Grow up on a farm, Raise a calf and care for it until its 13 years+ and tell me thats not caring? Im a caring human.
@johndeerekid623 I don't have to know how to fly a plane to know that when it stalls in mid air - It's trouble. I don't have to work a dairy to have views on the practices.
You are only looking at what you do from your perspective which mainly focuses on profitability. The cows only care about their lives. I'm speaking for them as you aren't listening that they want their babies and their lives. I know you think you care - But the cow dangling from the end of the meat hook would disagree.
Profitability in dairy farming is non existent, which ive mentioned several times. one of the lowest paying jobs in tthe u.s. I know i care and you have no right to question that. You have your opinion, im defending my way of life.
@johndeerekid623 Okay... Let's say then it's not monetary gain - Let's say it's just a matter of maintaining a way of life you're comfortable living. Still, it's at the cost of victims. Cows would rather not be artificially inseminated. Cows would rather not have their babies taken away. Cows would rather not be "culled" if they don't "produce".
I have every right and every intention to judge practices that use force against innocent others. I'd want someone to stick up for me - Wouldn't you?
@beaelliott Yes, the fact of the matter is, cows are not being tortured. The artificial insemination isnt "rape" or "Forced" Calves are taken away for safety and the mothers are mostly focused on eating and drinking water. The dairy industry isnt a monster or a torturous life like you make it out to be
@johndeerekid623 If YOU were a female dairy cow-Would YOU want a human arm and a metal instrument inserted into your vagina?NO. Would YOU want your baby that YOU carried for 9 mos to be taken from you?NO. Would YOU want to be the baby and placed somewhere away from the teat that nature has programmed as your food, your nurturer, your safety?NO.
YOU keep asking me to place myself in the boots of the dairy farmer.I'm asking YOU to place yourself in the predicament of the cow.Would YOU like this?
@beaelliott None of these things are forced, none of these things are done destructively, or violently. Once again the goal is not to harm the cows in any way. I know you would like a perfect world where every animal is let free to roam the planet but thats unrealistic. If the animals were harmed even the slightest, we would not continue doing that method. We put ourselves in the cows position, finding out the most comfortable living space, healthy food, clean water, and the best possible life.
@johndeerekid623 You lacked the courage & honesty to answer if you'd like these things done to YOU-But opt instead to minimize any harm.These things are done without the consent of the cows.That sir IS force!
Do you put yourself in the cow's position when they become a liability?When they place you in the red?I hesitate to say "profitable" as according to you dairies don't make money so it might as well be a hobby.
No-I wouldn't destroy a working car either.Lives are totally different.
@johndeerekid623 What is totally unrealistic is that you think painting a pretty picture on what I consider unspeakable acts is going to sway my position.
I'm grounded here as I have an unflinching empathy for those who are "used" as things. It is totally against the values I was raised with and have further embraced as an adult. I root for underdogs. When bullies oppress-I speak up.You're not going to convince me otherwise.
The best life possible is to not be killed.See how you twist things?
@johndeerekid623 Finally... At the end of all these nice things you do for cows before they are discarded - No matter how peachy the AI is... Or how many mats they're given to lay on... Or how many misters you have for their comfort... Or how "unstressed" you make them feel after their calves are stolen... Or how you insure they have the best udder treatments, health care, food, water, etc. - The resounding truth still is that none of it is necessary as we don't "need" cow's milk to be healthy!
@beaelliott If that is the way you believe you shall live then so be it, nobody is stopping you. Bu there are many people who don't share the same views. Which is also ok. Not everyone can agree
@johndeerekid623 Fortunately (almost) everyone did eventually agree on freeing the slaves, ending child labor, women's rights, civil rights, gay rights...
The arc is long but it bends towards universal justice ~ ML King
In other words - When a thing is right and moral... Generally society (reluctantly) makes it's way to embracing that code.
Finally: When a necessary evil is no longer necessary - What is left?
@johndeerekid623 Maybe just off shore: The growing popularity of dairy alternative beverages comes as consumption of cow’s milk continues to decline. The report states that the average per-capita consumption of cow’s milk fell from 24.3 gallons per person in 1994 to 20.8 gallons per person in 2008, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) data. bevnet.com/news/2012/dairy-alternative-beverage-market-reached-1-33-billion-in-2011
@beaelliott They are also removing the term "Milk" from almond and soy stuff because milk means " from mammal. Almond drink or soy drink. Feeding 9 billion by 2050. dairy industry is still moving along
@johndeerekid623 Milk: A liquid, such as coconut milk, milkweed sap, plant latex, or various medical emulsions. Yeah... Make using a word illegal. Corner the market on the definition of a word... Monopolize the English language - Yeah, that ought to do it! It's a sign of desperation sir. Whatever the dairy industries methods, ills or twists are - The fact still is - No human "needs" cow's milk to be healthy. ;)
@beaelliott Once again feed 9 billion people with your crappy " alternatives" and without the dairy industry. good luck. This world needs the dairy industry
when did you ask the cows? did they tell you? You clearly have no firsthand experience with cattle. Because when it comes time to inseminate one, if they REALLY didn't want it, you'd know. They're more than 3 times your size, if they really didn't want it, there wouldn't be much you could do about it.
@johndeerekid623 As I see it by not telling consumers the whole truth about the slaughtered cows - The fact that babies don't even get to drink their own mothers milk - The "rape" of the females to get pregnant (for profit)..Well that's "forcing" a certain image that keeps people unaware and keeps them buying products they believe are "humane".
Since these truths were not revealed to me before.Can someone reimburse me 50 years worth of buying dairy under false advertising? I was robbed.
@beaelliott false. they do drink their own mother's colostrum. they need that for the vitamins and nutrients in those first few hours to build up their immune system.
and it's not RAPE. the cattle are in heat, believe me, they are just as willing.
@celticfarmgirl Ah... colostrum! What does that get a baby calf time-wise with his own mother? 24 hours? You guys are soooo generous!
Oh - So the cows are "asking for it"? Again... How gracious of your "husbandry" to accommodate. Can't you see how either way this practice is soooo very ugly and degrading to not only the cow - But to yourselves? (yuck!)
@beaelliott they don't really have self esteems, darling, they aren't human. they'd do it in front of humans, they crap in front of little kids saying "eeww it's pooping" without blinking an eye. Animals don't get embarrassed, they don't give a crap. And it's not degrading to us, ask anyone who's ever bred a cow haha.
@celticfarmgirl As I pointed out:You can't put a dog in a building, then set the building in flames, then wring your hands on how to "save" him!Don't put the dog in that position initially! You are NOT a "hero" for trying to minimize the potential harm that you deliberately instigated.
If you sabotaged my car-Then as I was speeding down the highway-you called to warned me that the breaks wouldn't work-You didn't do me any favors.
Stop breeding cows so you don't have to worry about their safety.
What family members do you impregnate, steal and then slaughter the baby and then take the milk meant for that baby? What family member do you butcher and eat when they get 'too old?'
CapeRabbit 2 days ago
@CapeRabbit Cows are impregnated when they are in heat like most domestic animals. it is not forced and if it bothered them, you wold know it. they are 5 times your size. Calves are taken at early age because their immunity system is very vulnerable to disease so we make sure they have everything they need to stay alive. Calves are raised, bull calves are being sold to people who raise them for many purposes. the veal industry is depleting, which doesnt affect many of us.
johndeerekid623 1 day ago
But the animal produces food for them in the end... But you ignore that fact too.
celticfarmgirl 3 days ago
No but goat milk soap is very good.
celticfarmgirl 3 days ago
And dont start on the idea that our sicknesses are caused by meat. I have celiac. That isnt caused by meat.
celticfarmgirl 3 days ago
Beaelliot-really? Then why do we have canines? Vegetarian animals dont have those. Species like us yes that are MEANT to eat both meat and plant have the teeth for it. And if youre for not using animals against their will, why do you have dogs? They should be free too, by your reasoning. And your dogs are vegetarian? Why are you going against their nature?!?!? Theyre carnivores for petes sake!!! They're supposed to eat meat! Our mouths are proof we're supposed to eat meat, and theirs are too.
celticfarmgirl 3 days ago
To those who think it's animal cruelty: up around 4:00 am, to feed them, so they're happy. To milk them, so they don't get sick. To clean their pens so they're comfortable. To make sure they have hay and water so they're happy. To repeat the once or twice during the day. Our lives REVOLVE around them, and their comfort.
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago 2
And if you think it's because it's for profit, then why do we all have a second job? Why is it one of the lowest paying jobs in America? Because we LOVE them. You aren't cruel to something you love. You do what's best for them, and abuse ain't gonna get you anywhere with anyone.
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago
@celticfarmgirl Please look up the word "LOVE" you are using it entirely in the wrong context. What's best for them is that they be allowed to live the full lives they have. Being judged or condemned for being "dry" or nonproductive doesn't qualify as "love". Sorry.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott How DARE you question my love for my animals, considering you've never met me! I know that I AM using it in the CORRECT context. I LOVE my animals, and I cried when I had to say goodbye. We only have to sell them because we can't afford to give them the care they deserve if they aren't producing. And they are not "judged" or "condemned" for anything. So get your facts straight!!!
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl What were they bred and raised for initially? For profit or to "produce" something - Yes? And then when they no longer serve that purpose adequately - Their lives are forfeited because their "value" is worth less than capital. It's very simple. I don't misunderstand your situation at all. "Love" doesn't put a price tag on someone's life. Sorry.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott they're not a "Someone" THEY AREN'T HUMAN. I love them, and you haven't seen me around them, so you can't say boo about it. Yes, I love them. I think my heifers are some of my best friends. Yes, it has to do with capital. Doesn't mean we like it. But there are things that happen in life that we don't like. We do what's best for them. If we can't afford to provide for them, how is it fair to them to keep them? You have no right to tell us how to live our lives.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Oh there is definitely a "some one" there - A being who is sentient and aware of their existence. These are not rocks or sticks or vegetables or buildings - These are beings who love their lives just like any of us does. If they are your "best friends" certainly you'd know that they are someones not some "things".
Things that "happen" in life that we don't like? You mean like freely choosing a profession that requires the taking of life and then regretting doing so?Bizarre.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott they don't have consciences... they aren't ruled by their emotions like you are. They think on instinct. And that was not what I meant about things happening in life.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl I hope you know scientists and ethologists are making new discoveries about nonhumans all the time. What we thought we knew about their emotional world once is totally different now. It was less than 100 years ago that nonhumans were thought not to be "aware" at all-Like "machines.There's no telling what we'll discover in the decades to come.
Yes, things happen in life-Doesn't give us any right to further harm along. We are the "thinking" species-Therefore ought to act as such.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott I meant things like cattle being dry so they cannot care for a calf (which would still happen in the wilderness, and the calf would die, so we save the calf from starvation.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Don't "make" ie: "breed" the calf to begin with! That's a much better solution.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott the cows would be 'making' or rather 'breeding' the calf anyway, as you seem to have ignored AGAIN.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl No artificial insemination? No genetic selection? Hum - Please google dairy bull semen - And dairy A.I. Cows are not rabbits - They would not be birthing calves every year. Even so... If they did... That would be nature - Not "management" or "husbandry".
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott Um, they can't have more than one calf a year. If you knew your facts, they have a nine month gestation period, just like humans. And as they are milked for more than one month, and then dried off and NOT WORKED for at least two months, (all those numbers add up to twelve) they don't have a calf a year. And yeah, I know what AI is. Please don't insult my intelligence that deeply.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl I knew they carried for 9 months-just like humans.They have sons and daughters too- Even the industry will use those terms.(odd)So we're fussing over a few months of "vacation"?Please.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl There are plenty of sanctuaries out there that get up at 4 a.m. --- clean pens, feed, groom, etc. Your lives REVOLVE around them because they are money machines.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott oh you wish they were, because that would make your fact true, wouldn't it? Fact is we all have second jobs to keep the farm afloat, because it's NOT ABOUT MONEY which you would know if you paid attention to johndeerekid623's comments.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Wait! Just a comment below - You said you had to "say goodbye" because they weren't "producing"... That IS making money for you right? They just weren't making "enough".
If there was no market for meat or dairy... Zero people buying either. Would you still do what you do? Not hardly.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott shows how much you know. I'd still have cows because I LOVE THEM. you clearly just don't see how a farmer loves their life. I'm sorry money means too much to you for you to understand that.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Yes of course you LOVE THEM! Just keep saying it over and over again and somebody surely will be convinced. I think love is more than words - It's action and deeds. I would NEVER claim to "love" someone if I conspired to end their lives once they no longer were useful (profitable) to me.
But that's me and my concept of love.If you think the betrayal of an innocent life in exchange for dollars is "love"-then go right ahead & believe anything you want.But it remains false to me.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott yeah... you keep thinking that. It's that or they get to die from starvation, because we can't afford to feed them. But okay, we're cruel for not starving them.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl I'm assuming then - That if one had to relinquish animals because they could not afford to feed them that they'd try to place them in loving homes first... Like a sanctuary. Did you try that? And certainly, if you could not feed the others - You're not about to make or buy more - Right? So you're out of the dairy business... Wonderful news! Good for you! ;)
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott Not quite... Teachers wouldn't send their "unsuccessful" student off to the packing house - A dedicated teacher might privately tutor that student without pay. That would be equivalent to keeping cows after they no longer "produced". Do you think many dairies do that? Keep the boy calves too?
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott the veal industry is on a decline which doesnt affect me or many of the farms surrounding me because we never sent for veal, now the big thing is to raise them to get what little money we can out of them. and we do have individual plans for cows to keep them going. we never like to see a cow leave the farm
johndeerekid623 4 days ago
@johndeerekid623 Understood about never liking to see a cow leave the farm - But I think I hate it worse...
beaelliott 4 days ago
@beaelliott Its very hard seeing a 10-12 year old cow that you have raised from calf to adult, seen everyday, taken care etc leave. It is never a good thing to see one leave
johndeerekid623 4 days ago
@johndeerekid623 So innocent these creatures are - Sad for the ones who meet their fate under economic "necessity". I'm certainly working and living towards a day when this tragedy of early death/slaughter is no longer a reality.
beaelliott 4 days ago
@beaelliott so even after death, they're still helping the human race, whether it be by giving us food, or by helping us find cures for diseases, or just in our way of life. And believe me, it's engrained in us. Do you use bandages? Wall paper? sheetrock? emery boards? Glue? Shaving Cream? Soap? Mouthwash? Toothpaste? Perfume? Paint? Cosmetics? Candles? Cellophane? Ceramics? Did you ever use Film? Pet food? linoleum?Deodorant? (I sincerely hope so). They give us more than leather and beef.
celticfarmgirl 4 days ago
@celticfarmgirl They do not "give" us food. Their flesh is taken by force.
You assume that had we not used nonhumans we'd be lost.Challenge yourself a bit. There's nothing saying that we might not have improved and advanced our health, our environment, our economy and our culture a hundred fold had we not pursued plant based subsistence.You don't have a crystal ball.
Lastly-Of the products you mention there are substitutes for everything.Really?I'm going to kill life for tape?My dogs are veg.
beaelliott 3 days ago
@beaelliott they also give us insulin (I'm sure the diabetics love how you're going to stop them from gettin insulin.) Chymotrypsin(heals burns&wounds) Liver extract (treats anemia), Bone Marrow (treats blood disorders), Pressor Hormone (regulates blood pressure), ACTH (treats arthritis and allergies), Blood factors (treat hemophilia) Iron (treats anemia) and Thrombin (helps blood clot). Having been anemic, I'm glad we have these. They benefit us in ways we NEED.
celticfarmgirl 4 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Again... There's no telling where we might have advance medically had we endeavored down a different path. And most of the ills you site might not even exist had we nourished ourselves with healthier foods than dead flesh.
beaelliott 3 days ago
@beaelliott but if you want to tell someone with diabetes, lukemia, hemophilia, an allergy, who's anemic or who has thin blood, be my guest. But as you said, animals think in terms of survival. So do we. It's natural.
celticfarmgirl 4 days ago
@celticfarmgirl What if I give you the 1% of animal use as a valid point... How do you explain the 99% of the other animals used as a "food" that is NOT necessary?
beaelliott 3 days ago
@beaelliott one more thought. would you tell someone in Africa, who benefits from Heifer international, that it's cruel to keep their one of their only sources of survival, be it a goat, a rooster, a cow, a donkey, etc; so they can go hungry? Go ahead. let me know how far you get.
celticfarmgirl 4 days ago
@celticfarmgirl HI is a joke - Please research - They cause more poverty and famine than what they profess they cure. Villages have been known to forgo giving themselves water to "save" the cow or goat. They can't even grow vegetation for themselves - What little they manage to find they feed to to "stock".The animal is worth more than the child - They've withheld food from their own kids to keep the "cash cow" alive. Please investigate for yourself. Read Jean Ziegler:"The cannibal world order"
beaelliott 3 days ago
@beaelliott if you knew how sanctuaries work, you'd know that they can't always afford to take on another animal, because of the same reason we can't keep them. And you don't appear to be open-minded enough to even discuss the second part
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl No. Sadly sanctuaries can't take millions of "spent" dairy cows. And sadder still is that the industries won't stop creating more! What second part?
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott well, people are still in a demand for milk, for drinking, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, ect; so we do need to still provide for those that aren't as closed-minded.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl "Demands" change over time... The more people learn - The more new products that replace "old" ones - The more issues that arise - The more that markets will adapt. ;)
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott well, we're doing our best to combat the issues such as abuse and maltreatment, which you can't see, because you only see what you want to see. But farmers know to ignore your bullcrap, because it's just that. We know that you don't see the whole picture, and that you don't want to.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl The whole principle behind meat, dairy and eggs is abusive.It uses living beings as commodities.Economic systems necessitate the destruction of those who aren't of value. I know the whole picture quite well.I fear it is you and others who don't.
You refuse to see that these are beings with their own wants and desires-Top of the list is they don't want to be killed.Taking their lives is against their best interest.You just fail to see the violence/wrong in that. My eyes are open.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl FINALLY thank you
johndeerekid623 5 days ago
Here is some food for thought about those who complain about hormones in milk, soymilk actually contains phytoestrogens, which when consumed, raise the level of estrogen in one's body to a higher level than dairy milk ever would.
jerseycowman2009 1 week ago 2
@jerseycowman2009 Who drinks soy milk?The fastest growing NON-dairy alternative is almond milk-There's rice, hemp, oat, coconut, hazelnut, flax & sunflower seed.All "fortified" just like cow's milk.
beaelliott 6 days ago
In addition, a counter to the person who talked about the sanctuary, I have seen more times than not that, the mom does not really care about the calf, and in some instances tries to actually kill the calf. As many have said to those who do not like dairy farms, you cannot possibly make a totally informed stance on dairy farms until you actually go to one for yourself.
jerseycowman2009 1 week ago
@jerseycowman2009
you can't even make a totally informed stance on dairy farms then. It takes more than one visit for a couple hours to begin to comprehend it. Try living and working on one for years. Then come tell me why you don't like one.
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago
This is not to say animals do not have feelings, but their feelings are different from any human. Moreover, for those of you who complain about the calves being taken away from the cow at birth, this is done for the calf's protection. By removing the calf from the mother, we are preventing the calf from possibly getting any disease from the environment or even the mother herself.
jerseycowman2009 1 week ago
I bet many of the vegans and vegetarians do not realize that we make some plastics, medicines, and adhesives from milk proteins. In addition, as far as when the animal is at the end of her life, not only does she provide us with meat, she also provides use with hundreds of other products, in the form of byproducts. Another issue is the fact that people feel that animals experience emotions the same way as humans. There have been studies done that disprove thisdo some homework and look it up.
jerseycowman2009 1 week ago
I find it offensive that people seem to feel that because they "know all" that they can say bad things about dairy farmers. I have been involved in the dairy industry for years, and I can honestly say that it is asinine to think that farmers don't care about their animals and the only reason that people like me are in the industry only do it for profit. Furthermore, I see some people have an issue with the use of artificial insemination.
jerseycowman2009 1 week ago
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johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
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johndeerekid623 2 months ago
What a great video that quickly puts the importance of dairy farming into context, for people cows and the environment. I am going to show this to everyone on my team who helps produce high quality milk each day by carefully caring for our beautiful cows! We are proud to be just one of the farms helping to feed families across America!
frommootoyou 2 months ago
@beaelliot I don't disagree with you that there are a lot of hardworking people out there, but I think it is truly unfair for you to say that working on a farm, including dairy, is not unique! These people spend countless hours caring for their animals, in both good and bad weather conditions. Even when it is a holiday, they don't get the day off... they still have to feed their animals. So unless you have actually worked on a farm or ranch, you can't judge the kind of work they do!
NEfarmkid 2 months ago 2
@NEfarmkid They spend countless hours because of the money involved... Not the "love" of the animals. Talk to someone who works in a sanctuary --- They care for untold dozens of living beings round the clock too... Without a single cent seen as payment in a "product" or a slaughterhouse. Stop trying to make being in the business of peddling flesh some kind of holy profession. It's killing for money no matter how "nicely" it's made to look.
beaelliott 2 months ago
Thank you to all of the hardworking dairy farmers and their families for providing a safe and abundant supply of milk and dairy products! Just because some people don't like dairy products doesn't mean that everyone must stop drinking/eating dairy products. It is America, we have a choice!
NEfarmkid 2 months ago 2
@NEfarmkid Many people work hard-Dairy ranchers aren't unique in that respect.
Now -Your point about not liking dairy-It's the practices that are abominable.From forcing milk & cheese in schools to the "retiring" of healthy cows to keep prices fixed.This corruption can't possibly be a "choice" for people concerned with healthy eating habits for kids or for any one who sees the injustice of taking innocent lives. It's not like dairy is necessary for anything else but economic gain.
beaelliott 2 months ago
Human children and adults have ZERO need to drink cow's milk or any milk for that matter. I quit drinking milk & rely on better sources of calcium. I have significantly reduced my respiratory congestion & my fat levels. I have no reason to drink milk & will never again be the American over-consumer I used to be, because I have finally learned to seek out facts instead of believing all the phony advertising. Shame on America for rolling in fat as long as there are people starving anywhere.
miasansom 2 months ago
1) Many kids are allergic to soy and nuts so those will never be alternatives to cow milk in school. They already ban peanut butter from school.
2) Only animal proteins including milk contain all amino acids...unlike plant products..which are fortified by the way as well.
3)Cows naturally fertilize the land, returning unused nutrients to the soil for later use. Without cows you will need to buy synthetic/mined minerals from far away. Even vegetables need minerals to grow.
dairyfarmerfyeah 2 months ago
Thank you to all the local soy,wheat, oat, corn, sunflower, etc for purchasing compost from our dairy. Hope you were able to turn in a profitable year for all your veggie/vegan followers.
lranch1010 2 months ago
I like the positive spin of this message, however it is clearly biased toward large scale dairies. There is a direct connection between farm scale and animal/human intimacy or "family" connection they portray. Many large scale dairy operations milk their cows 3 times a day, thus cutting the productive lifespan of the animal. These large operations also hire workers to do the milking who do not have direct stake in the farm. It is in these factory scale farms that the cow becomes a machine.
pdbakkum 3 months ago
Merck how much did you have to spend on this video?? Did you start working on it before or after you started injecting girls and now boys with the HPV shot that is killing and making many people sick? As a dairy farmer, you guys sicken me, like you support dairies while all along you screw us when we turn around.
jondeereman 3 months ago
@beaelliot Dairy farmers don't hold them selves above creation. The Lord made us all equal; farmers, lawyers, or McDonald's fry cooks. In my experience, farmers are some of the most honest, humble, and hard working people out there. We don't work 365 days a year out of an inflated ego or sense of self righteousness, we're just doing what God calls all of us to do: be good stewards of what we have been given. And Dairy Farmers do that by taking care of the land, their animals and their families.
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago 3
@MNFarmgirl1 Yes! We are ALL equal in that we ALL value our lives with equal desire to hold on to it. ANY life seized is done so by force. Of course "gOd" is the only one who has the "right" to take or control life. Lots and lots of people work 365 days a year - But not raising other beings to kill. And especially not under the pretense of providing "care" to anyone but themselves. Sure- I appreciate that it's a job... But a calling to kill? That's quite presumptive of what "god" intended.
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott I think you should think about what your trying to say a little before you call honest hard working people out and saying they are wrong for trying to make a living. It is people like you who say the farmers are "being cruel" and are "playing god" and need to change the way they farm but then point fingers and say its their fault when there isnt enough food to feed the people in the world. You have all the answers for the worlds problems dont you? why dont you shove your almond milk
Maak1001 3 months ago 14
@Maak1001 Hi - It's no secret that it takes an incredible amount of grain, land, water and other resources to raise "meat" animals. All that land could go to planting human food. The US is not suffering from deprivation but from over-indulgence on animal based protein. It's causing health issues, is petroleum intensive and totally wasteful. Do I want to feed the world? Yes! A billion humans die every year from starvation - while we push our western eating habits abroad.Who's being selfish?
beaelliott 3 months ago
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beaelliott 2 months ago
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@Maak1001 It's not me... It's reality. It takes 6 to 10 times more crops to derive a "meat based product" than it does to directly consume the plants. This is why there isn't enough food to go around: "Food First’s Frances Moore Lappé asks people to imagine sitting down to an eight-ounce steak, and then, “imagine the room filled with 45 to 50 people with empty bowls ...For the feed cost of your steak, each of their bowls could be filled with a full cup of cooked cereal grains.”
THAT is cruel.
beaelliott 2 months ago
@beaelliott okay but if its the feed that is your huge problem with farmers, then why dont you turn on the government officials who think the answer to the fuel crisis is to turn that corn (that any ruminant will use more efficiently than any single stomached being like us) into fuel for cars?? putting gas in a vehicle isnt feeding people like feeding cattle that can be slaughtered and milked can.
Maak1001 2 months ago
@Maak1001 Even before crops were being used for ethenol feed was wasted... Fattening nonhumans. The starving aren't being fed steaks and chops or burgers are they? We should be shipping "excess" grain to those in need... Not expanding our "western" diets upon them. It's not sustainable. We in "meat, egg and dairy" eating countries are not lacking for nourishment - In fact we consume twice the protein we need. Sadly most of it is animal protein. Excessive and unnecessary.
beaelliott 2 months ago
@beaelliott I couldn't agree more, and wish more people would wake up and start paying attention and doing their own research. Great comment!
miasansom 2 months ago
@beaelliott
Say we were to use this excess grain for food aid.
1. How would the farmers be compensated for their work?
2. What is going to stop dictators from withholding food rations sent as food aid?
3. Sending food aid quickly DESTROYS the local food economy and creates unneeded dependencies on food aid.
Food aid is a horrible proposition for most third-world countries.
IngeniousFirefly 6 days ago
@IngeniousFirefly Perhaps at the crux of it all is something very sour in our economic system? That people should starve for the sake of others who must profit or have power is quite telling of a failed formula.
What destroys local economies is dictating that high-yield crops be planted-Usually for the sake of animal feed.
We ARE trying to stop dictators over oil right?Obviously there are better things to fight over.
Maybe ranchers should be ousted from the farm bill anyway to grow human food.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott
What country are you talking about? The United States is not responsible as a whole for other countries' poverty levels.
Again, economies here or there? I am talking about third-world
IngeniousFirefly 6 days ago
@IngeniousFirefly You see... My issues aren't necessarily 3rd world as whatever problems they have - If we do better in "First World" - They will inevitably benefit. Furthermore... Addressing problems surrounding meat/egg/dairy is VERY do-able in our own backyards. Now more than at any time there is an abundance of alternative foods that don't create quite the negative consequences. The time is now - And the place is here.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott
countries.
Animals are not only kept for their milk in third-world countries, but other animal products which they provide making those high-yield crops very valuable. Again, those
IngeniousFirefly 6 days ago
@IngeniousFirefly Again - I'm not saying that other developing countries should abandon their only means of survival... I'm saying that here and now WE - sitting comfortably behind our computer screens - Can opt to do better by the environment, make better use of resources, improve our health AND stop "using" innocent beings for the profitable end their bodies serve. It's no longer necessary! Adapt for progress.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott local agricultural industries are destroyed when food aid is sent.
Don't sidestep the issue at hand to make invalid points. Thank you very much.
IngeniousFirefly 6 days ago
@IngeniousFirefly And your solution is???
beaelliott 6 days ago
@Maak1001 This is what happens when the 2% of us farmers have to feed the other 98%. There are bound to be misunderstandings in the way we do our jobs. Yes we do make our livings farming, but believe me if I didn't love these cows I would definately be finding another way to make a buck, maybe a way that involved a day off...
MsFarmer2008 1 month ago 5
Many calves drink the milk from cows... Just not always their own mothers. Dairy cows produce milk for 10 months or a little more and calves are weaned after 2 months. A Dairy cow is so efficient that she makes more than 1 calf and many times more than several calves can eat.
People feed milk or use milk "Powdered milk" for several reasons. Depending on your herd dynamics.. (Convenience, health, ect)
aroncrowell 3 months ago
This is a pretty cool video that tells some amazing facts about Dairy in the USA.. I hope you take a couple minutes to watch it...
aroncrowell 3 months ago
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@ beaelliot
Also, it is harder for our bodies to use foods that have Vitamin D and calcium than it is for cows to convert it for us. The goverment does not force milk at school lunches, but rather requires them to provide its students with a nutritious product essential for healthy growth. Regular skim milk has 10 times more calcium than soy milk and 2 times more calcium than almond milk. Other than that they are compareable. But I love milk, and I love my dairy cows even more.
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago 5
How much cow's milk do the calves drink? What happens to the baby male calves? Why do you send healthy "over productive" cows to an early slaughter? Why are humans the only species not to ever be weaned? Can't we get the calcium and D directly from where the cows get it from? If your product is so wonderful - Why do you need the government to force milk at school lunches? Why do you only compare cow's milk nutrition against juice and soda? Why not almond, rice or soy milks? Why dairy?
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott
Other than the colostrum the first days of birth, calves aren't usually fed their mother's milk. They are fed a substitute which allows farmers to ensure they are meeting all their nutritional needs. It also prevents the spread of disease from cow to calf. On my farm, baby male calves are grown on our farm to maturity and then sold.. Healthy, efficient cows are not sent to slaughter, but sometimes farmers have to make decisions to sell their cows that are no longer productive.
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago
@MNFarmgirl1 Hum - "Mature" could also mean old enough to go to slaughter right? And isn't that legally about 14 or so days old? If it was a potentially "unproductive" calf that is... That's so odd that nature would not have provided enough nourishment in a mothers milk to be adequate. Hum... But "essential" for human adults --- Very odd indeed. Healthy, efficient cows aren't sent to slaughter? What about the CWT herd "retirement" program that's in the midst of a lawsuit for price fixing?
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott On my farm, mature means full grown 1500 lb steers. Males are still as productive as females, they just arent producing milk, they produce meat. Nature does provide adequate nourishment in mothers milk, but the formula humans provide has the ability to go above and beyond that. CWT was lowering supply to raise demand in order to stabilize a flooded market. For that to work, all cows in a herd had to be removed. Unfortunately, even the healthy ones.
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago
@MNFarmgirl1 Yes.That is unfortunate - Even for those consumers who paid a higher price for milk while their tax dollars went to providing dairy in schools as well. Guess they got it from both ends of the stick. And dairy ranchers provide better nourishment than even nature could! That certainly sets you folks right up there with the best of creation doesn't it? "Above" as you said... But what exactly is "bob veal" or kip veal? Just curious how old those "unproductive" males are. Thanks.
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott I guess we're all in the same boat as far as paying more at the grocery store goes. But milk isn't the only food that has gotten more expensive. And I am glad to live in a country where tax payers help provide the children with nutritious school meals that include dairy products. I'm not very familiar with veal production, because my family has never been involved with it. But from what I could find, bob veal is the meat of calves about 150 lbs or 3 months old, according to the FDA.
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago
@MNFarmgirl1 I wouldn't mind paying for healthy healthy foods for kids either... That's why I'm so against (force) feeding kids dairy on everything. My nutritionist says that dairy and meat turn the blood acidic which in turn leeches calcium. I used to have arthritis but since I've given up dairy years ago - It went away... Also my weight stabilized. But I'm not the only one this has happened to... I've met hundreds on line who say the same thing. Re Kip? Poor little ones - not even a mention.
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott In my school, we are given the option of milk and occasionaly yogurt for breakfast, and cheese as a topping for burgers or sloppy joes. The only meals that come with dairy already on them are pizza and macaroni and cheese. Yes dairy sometimes has adverse effects on some people. But considering that millions of people consume dairy, there are bound to be a few that feel these effects. I didnt mention kip because I couldnt find any info on it.Could you tell me what you know about it?
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago
@MNFarmgirl1 The reason why dairy has adverse effects is that after we are weaned our body no longer produces the enzymes to digest the lactose. For people who are "intolerant" - This is not a "disease" but a natural condition that ALL mammals experience. You actually have to condition the body to accept the milk - I know a school nurse and she says the amount of sick kids after consuming dairy at lunch is astounding. The cure? They give "lactaid" to the kids! That just doesn't make sense!
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott Thankfully, they make lactose free milk for people with lactose intolerence!! Hopefully, someday soon, they will have this option in schools for kids can't drink regular milk, but still want to experience the great benefits from consuming dairy products. :)
MNFarmgirl1 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
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beaelliott 3 months ago
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beaelliott 3 months ago
@MNFarmgirl1 Benefits? Benefits that you can get from plant based milks that are also "fortified" with everything in cow's milk... Hum - Why go through all the trouble of drinking cow's milk when almond, rice, oat, sunflower, flax-seed, coconut, hazelnut or soy milks have all the "benefits" but none of the negatives? Doesn't make sense to go through the cow when you can get it naturally from plants. More environmentally sustainable and certainly kinder to the animals too! ;)
beaelliott 3 months ago
@beaelliott your the people giving dairy farmers a bad name. we dont raise to kill. we raise to milk. think before you comment with your peta crap. most of these viewers are dairy farmers so your kind of on your own
johndeerekid623 2 months ago
I am not a member of peta-Not hardly. I stand by my own good judgment based on facts accumulated through reliable sources. I also have no problem being on my own as it were.I have every confidence that truth is on my side.Don't need a mob or "group" to validate reality.We don't need to be the only UNWEANED species on the planet. It's NOT "normal" to drink the mammary secretions from cows, goats, donkeys, pigs or any other nursing mother. It's also not kind-as the baby needs the milk more than I.
beaelliott 2 months ago
@beaelliott If you dont want to drink it then dont. thats fine. Let everybody else do what they want. The cows are healthy and happy and could care less where their milk is going.
johndeerekid623 2 months ago
@johndeerekid623 Ah, but they do care where their babies go... And all decent people stick up for the oppressed and exploited among us... Besides, human adults drinking the milk that belongs to baby calves doesn't seem right, "natural", or kind at all.
beaelliott 2 months ago
Have you ever lived, worked, or even been on a dairy farm. I have. my entire life. The things you say are false mostly because you dont have any clue what your talking about. I and my family take care of 300 cows 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, christmas, new years and every other day. Its what we love to do and we only care about our animals well being. Learn some REAL facts and not stuff you read on the internet
johndeerekid623 2 months ago
@johndeerekid623 Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement - then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old? Those ARE facts. You take care of cows because they make money for you - You are NOT a sanctuary!
beaelliott 2 months ago
@beaelliott If you knew anything about dairy farming, you would know that its not about the money at all. because its not a high paying job by any means. Its about the animals. You think we only care about money and just treat the cows like crap. My entire life revolves around cows because i love them. You need to know what its like to live on a farm instead of standing on the side lines and base everything off what you see and hear.
johndeerekid623 2 months ago
@johndeerekid623 I respectfully request that you address these questions if you wish to stay credible: "Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement-then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old?"The answers will determine your extent of "love".
beaelliott 2 months ago
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@beaelliott I have dairy cows that are 12 years old, we keep every heifer and we send bull calves to a man that raises oxen.Calves are removed from their mothers, for their safety. You address my questions,Do you know anything about dairy farming other than what you hear from animal rights propaganda films?Have you ever thought that every single thing we do is for the animals well being?Have you ever put yourself in a farmers shoes?I respectfully request that you address these to stay credible
johndeerekid623 2 months ago
@beaelliott And who the hell are you to question my love for dairy cows. my life revolves around them, keeping the safe, happy, and healthy. not for money, because its what i like to do. You still no nothing about dairy farming outside of your propaganda videos
johndeerekid623 1 month ago 4
@johndeerekid623 Who am I? A former consumer of dairy. I resent the lies that were hidden from me while I was purchasing cow's milk. As an ethical "vegetarian" I was against harming other beings. That was my right to demand honesty about the products I was buying! But there's nothing in the whole marketing of dairy that gave me a clue about the stolen calves or the slaughter of the males.This was deceitful. I would never have supported these practices with my "voting" dollar.My money was stolen!
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 You "love" your cows... When they make you a nice profit! You keep your cows "safe" unless they are no longer "productive" - Then every thing changes doesn't it? Are they "safe" from the packing house when feed/medication costs more than what their bodies are worth per pound?
I know enough sir, to read your motives like a cheap novel... There's no surprise ending to your "bottom line".
Run a sanctuary - Work 2 public jobs just to keep the cows ALIVE! Now THAT's love!
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott Once again,Dairy farming is one of the least paying jobs in the u.s. 98% of them family owned.Everybody has a seperate job to support the farm. Cows dont make hardly any profit.Cows are kept safe 24/7. Torture and cruelty doesnt make since if we are try to get something out of cows now is it? Most dairy farms barely get by because its so difficult make a dollar. Once again,do some research,go to an ACTUAL dairy farm and learn from ACTUAL people that run the farms and get ACTUAL facts
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Dairy industries manage to operate because of consumption subsidies.The gov guarantees to "buy" a certain amount of cheese, cream, milk, etc. for schools and other institutions. Also protected by trade alliances-About the only thing saving US milk now is the export market.
If you are slaughtering cows simply because they stopped having babies or stopped "giving" milk-that's hardly "safe" at all!Please at least own up to what your practices entail! You kill when dollar dictates!
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott The advancement in genetics is making it nearly guarenteed a heifer calf, and that cows have a long productive life so that farmers dont lose any more money then they already are. Every cow on the farm gets their fair shake.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Just curious - How many cows and calves were sacrificed, born dead, or died in pain while genetics were being "manipulated"? And sorry - But I even doubt the technology as it would be available to humans too.And it's still an uncertain roll of the dice as to what sex a human child will be born.
Lastly, you're idea of what a cow's "fair shake" is makes me shudder.Guess they get a chance to be "valuable" or their killed. Plain and simple -Nothing fair there if viewed objectively.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott You have no right to question my love for my animals, the way i run my farm, and the way i treat my cows with respect. You also do not know the dairy industry from the point of view of the honest hard working people that run it. 365 days a year every cow is cared for. My family hasnt gone on a vacation in 25 years. because we are dedicated to our dairy farming. You can take your opinion and " Facts " and shove it
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Please - Tell me why I don't have a right to an opinion about the dairy industry based on solid information obtained from agriculture websites? It is truth that the cows are artificially inseminated. I disagree with that practice as a female. It is truth that the babies are separated from the mothers - I disagree with that practice from a parent's POV and a child's. It is fact that many unweaned infants go to slaughter - That's disgusting from a caring human's perspective.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott
it's not that you don't have a right to an opinion. It's that your opinion is uninformed. Yeah, you have a website. Guess what. We have an entire lifetime's firsthand experience. what website did you use?
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago
@celticfarmgirl Am I uninformed? "Is it false that calves are removed from their mothers? Is it false that many times the infants go to slaughter at only 14 days old? Is it false that the others (mostly male) are kept for only 4 months - raised in confinement-then slaughtered for veal? Is it false that "unproductive" cows are sent to the packing house at about 5 - 8 years old?"
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott you don't pay attention to the WHOLE FACT that's in front of you, just the part you want to see. No, it isn't. but as johndeerekid623 said, it's for the safety calves. And yeah, it's false that the infiants go "many times at 14 days old". And I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to eat a dairy cow, because they don't have much meat on their bones, unlike beef cattle. So yeah, I'd say that's false.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl For the safety of the calves... That shouldn't have been brought into this world to begin with. You can't put a dog in a building, then set the building in flames, then wring your hands on how to "save" him! Don't put the dog in that position initially!
"Bob veal" or "slink veal" mean anything to you? What about "kip leather"?
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott you never stated which website you got all your facts.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl Google it... It's everywhere - it's called the world wide web. ;)
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott I want a specific website. You used PeTA didn't you?
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl I'm not affiliated with peta - There are about 850 other "animal rights" organizations that suit my ideology better. Please google "animal rights" or better "vegan" and pick who/where such info comes from - It's everywhere.
beaelliott 5 days ago
@beaelliott yeah, the animal rights argument is still stupid, as they're ANIMALS not humans, and as you know, I stand for animal WELFARE which means proper and responsible treatment of them.
celticfarmgirl 5 days ago
@celticfarmgirl I know. We're debating what "proper" and "responsible" treatment is or isn't. I think disposing of beings after they no longer "produce" fails the test.
beaelliott 5 days ago
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@celticfarmgirl "Self esteems"? What in the world are you trying to refer to? Are you implying that if I violate the body of a stroke patient or someone in a coma that it doesn't matter because they aren't aware? Because they too defecate without control and don't get embarrassed over it?
It's not what the victims "feels" that is shameful. It's what the perpetrator initiates. That's where the angst should lie.And yes... There have been former ranchers who regretted their treatment to nonhumans.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@johndeerekid623 Finally, I know plenty of people who don't take vacations (I haven't had one in 22 years) - Many also work very hard jobs 7 days a week - Sometimes working 70 hours. I know both my husband and I did when we were younger...
Now, just because work is hard - Doesn't mean the job is honest. Sorry if truth offends you so... You might want to investigate why you're so touchy about defining what words really mean in context to the "care" you say you give to cows.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
Once again, until you own and run a dairy farm. you will not understand. Artificial insemination is better than having a 1 ton bull jump mount a cow. it also helps improve the genectics and health of the cows family. calves are seperated for safety. You obviously will never understand the industry because you get your info from internet. Grow up on a farm, Raise a calf and care for it until its 13 years+ and tell me thats not caring? Im a caring human.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 I don't have to know how to fly a plane to know that when it stalls in mid air - It's trouble. I don't have to work a dairy to have views on the practices.
You are only looking at what you do from your perspective which mainly focuses on profitability. The cows only care about their lives. I'm speaking for them as you aren't listening that they want their babies and their lives. I know you think you care - But the cow dangling from the end of the meat hook would disagree.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
Profitability in dairy farming is non existent, which ive mentioned several times. one of the lowest paying jobs in tthe u.s. I know i care and you have no right to question that. You have your opinion, im defending my way of life.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Okay... Let's say then it's not monetary gain - Let's say it's just a matter of maintaining a way of life you're comfortable living. Still, it's at the cost of victims. Cows would rather not be artificially inseminated. Cows would rather not have their babies taken away. Cows would rather not be "culled" if they don't "produce".
I have every right and every intention to judge practices that use force against innocent others. I'd want someone to stick up for me - Wouldn't you?
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott Yes, the fact of the matter is, cows are not being tortured. The artificial insemination isnt "rape" or "Forced" Calves are taken away for safety and the mothers are mostly focused on eating and drinking water. The dairy industry isnt a monster or a torturous life like you make it out to be
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 If YOU were a female dairy cow-Would YOU want a human arm and a metal instrument inserted into your vagina?NO. Would YOU want your baby that YOU carried for 9 mos to be taken from you?NO. Would YOU want to be the baby and placed somewhere away from the teat that nature has programmed as your food, your nurturer, your safety?NO.
YOU keep asking me to place myself in the boots of the dairy farmer.I'm asking YOU to place yourself in the predicament of the cow.Would YOU like this?
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott None of these things are forced, none of these things are done destructively, or violently. Once again the goal is not to harm the cows in any way. I know you would like a perfect world where every animal is let free to roam the planet but thats unrealistic. If the animals were harmed even the slightest, we would not continue doing that method. We put ourselves in the cows position, finding out the most comfortable living space, healthy food, clean water, and the best possible life.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 You lacked the courage & honesty to answer if you'd like these things done to YOU-But opt instead to minimize any harm.These things are done without the consent of the cows.That sir IS force!
Do you put yourself in the cow's position when they become a liability?When they place you in the red?I hesitate to say "profitable" as according to you dairies don't make money so it might as well be a hobby.
No-I wouldn't destroy a working car either.Lives are totally different.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 What is totally unrealistic is that you think painting a pretty picture on what I consider unspeakable acts is going to sway my position.
I'm grounded here as I have an unflinching empathy for those who are "used" as things. It is totally against the values I was raised with and have further embraced as an adult. I root for underdogs. When bullies oppress-I speak up.You're not going to convince me otherwise.
The best life possible is to not be killed.See how you twist things?
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Finally... At the end of all these nice things you do for cows before they are discarded - No matter how peachy the AI is... Or how many mats they're given to lay on... Or how many misters you have for their comfort... Or how "unstressed" you make them feel after their calves are stolen... Or how you insure they have the best udder treatments, health care, food, water, etc. - The resounding truth still is that none of it is necessary as we don't "need" cow's milk to be healthy!
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott If that is the way you believe you shall live then so be it, nobody is stopping you. Bu there are many people who don't share the same views. Which is also ok. Not everyone can agree
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Fortunately (almost) everyone did eventually agree on freeing the slaves, ending child labor, women's rights, civil rights, gay rights...
The arc is long but it bends towards universal justice ~ ML King
In other words - When a thing is right and moral... Generally society (reluctantly) makes it's way to embracing that code.
Finally: When a necessary evil is no longer necessary - What is left?
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott Don't worry the dairy industry isnt going anywhere.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Maybe just off shore: The growing popularity of dairy alternative beverages comes as consumption of cow’s milk continues to decline. The report states that the average per-capita consumption of cow’s milk fell from 24.3 gallons per person in 1994 to 20.8 gallons per person in 2008, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) data. bevnet.com/news/2012/dairy-alternative-beverage-market-reached-1-33-billion-in-2011
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott They are also removing the term "Milk" from almond and soy stuff because milk means " from mammal. Almond drink or soy drink. Feeding 9 billion by 2050. dairy industry is still moving along
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 Milk: A liquid, such as coconut milk, milkweed sap, plant latex, or various medical emulsions. Yeah... Make using a word illegal. Corner the market on the definition of a word... Monopolize the English language - Yeah, that ought to do it! It's a sign of desperation sir. Whatever the dairy industries methods, ills or twists are - The fact still is - No human "needs" cow's milk to be healthy. ;)
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
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johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
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@beaelliott Once again feed 9 billion people with your crappy " alternatives" and without the dairy industry. good luck. This world needs the dairy industry
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott
when did you ask the cows? did they tell you? You clearly have no firsthand experience with cattle. Because when it comes time to inseminate one, if they REALLY didn't want it, you'd know. They're more than 3 times your size, if they really didn't want it, there wouldn't be much you could do about it.
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago
@celticfarmgirl Again... These hussy cows are asking for it. Jeeze but you guys live in a world of your own fantasies.
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott Your entitled to your opinion. but dont force it upon others just because you think everybody should think the way you do.
johndeerekid623 2 weeks ago
@johndeerekid623 As I see it by not telling consumers the whole truth about the slaughtered cows - The fact that babies don't even get to drink their own mothers milk - The "rape" of the females to get pregnant (for profit)..Well that's "forcing" a certain image that keeps people unaware and keeps them buying products they believe are "humane".
Since these truths were not revealed to me before.Can someone reimburse me 50 years worth of buying dairy under false advertising? I was robbed.
beaelliott 2 weeks ago
@beaelliott false. they do drink their own mother's colostrum. they need that for the vitamins and nutrients in those first few hours to build up their immune system.
and it's not RAPE. the cattle are in heat, believe me, they are just as willing.
celticfarmgirl 1 week ago
@celticfarmgirl Ah... colostrum! What does that get a baby calf time-wise with his own mother? 24 hours? You guys are soooo generous!
Oh - So the cows are "asking for it"? Again... How gracious of your "husbandry" to accommodate. Can't you see how either way this practice is soooo very ugly and degrading to not only the cow - But to yourselves? (yuck!)
beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott they don't really have self esteems, darling, they aren't human. they'd do it in front of humans, they crap in front of little kids saying "eeww it's pooping" without blinking an eye. Animals don't get embarrassed, they don't give a crap. And it's not degrading to us, ask anyone who's ever bred a cow haha.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
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beaelliott 6 days ago
@beaelliott and as johndeerrekid623 ALREADY POINTED OUT, dairy cattle are not exactly the nurturing type. it's for their own good.
celticfarmgirl 6 days ago
@celticfarmgirl As I pointed out:You can't put a dog in a building, then set the building in flames, then wring your hands on how to "save" him!Don't put the dog in that position initially! You are NOT a "hero" for trying to minimize the potential harm that you deliberately instigated.
If you sabotaged my car-Then as I was speeding down the highway-you called to warned me that the breaks wouldn't work-You didn't do me any favors.
Stop breeding cows so you don't have to worry about their safety.
beaelliott 6 days ago