With you all the way. My parents are homophobic and even though I myself am straight, everyone has the absolute right to marry and love whomever they choose. We have three unalienable rights, those being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Marrying the one you love is a right no one should ever be able to take away.
Our forefathers fought and died for homosexuality? You're misinformed.
Sodomy was a crime from the get-go in America. The Puritans punished those they discovered practicting sodomy. George Washington kicked any homosexuals he found out of the Army when he was general.
Our forefathers fought and died for religious freedom, property freedom, and life and limb preservation. They weren't stacking logs at Bunker Hill so they could sodomize each other in peace.
@MrHarajukuLuva Obviously not. Homosexuals can do what they do as consenting adults (and also because its not compatible with the 4th amendment) to outlaw sodomy.
But homosexual "marriage" is just not acceptable in a healthy society.
@aldoreshgaramok I really don't know how it's causing an "unhealthy society"...i wish the people who are so against gay marriage would spend more of their energy trying to outlaw divorce instead...i think that causes more damage than gay marriage
@MrHarajukuLuva Well that is a noble cause as well, but I would probably be more in favor of simply abolishing "no-fault" divorce, and the awarding of alimony, rather than wholly outlawing divorce.
You know, I'm not usually a very emotional person. In fact, I feel it's weak to cry. But this video, no matter how many times I've watched it, always puts me on the verge of tears.
I have to read something aloud for my speech class, and I want to read this letter. My state doesn't allow gay marriage, but I think if others hear your speech someone, even if only one, will be moved enough to tell others and, eventually, move enough people change the minds of our house members. Thank you so mu
I remember after i found out the Prop got more "Yes's" then "No's" came out i was pretty disappointed because me and my my Girlfriend were engaged and no sorry but then we couldnt so then e just had to stay a couple. This prop actually ruined the relationship because my parents were Homophobic and they voted yes and this in which caused trouble to her family and mine so we had to break up..Umm..so yeah Raven i totally agree the people that voted "Yes" destoryed alot of hopes even my Engagment..
I cried and watched this again...and cried again...and keep watching cuz this makes such an impact. If gay marriage is still illegal in California by the time I turn 18 I will move there until I can vote NO!!!
I can totally imagine that
*my 18th birthday*
Me:Hey mom! I leaving now!
Mom:Where ya going?
Me:IM MOVING TO CALIFORNIA TO SHOW ALL THOSE IDIOTS WHO VOTED YES ON PROP 8!!!
Mom:Ok ok write me sometime. (one down 2 more 2 go)
X3
(I'm not making fun of you here by making my comment stupid..)
Raven, I couldnt possibly agree with u more. I have seen my own friend bullied to the point that he thought suicide was the only option left for him all because he was gay. I have been with him, fighting with him to keep him goin strong. Love is not about gender. Love is that deep passion u hold for someone else. I hold that passion for someone that I loved for along time, only a short while ago did we confess to eachother. I love her, and I will fight for wat I believe in. Thank u Raven. <3
Why is it that you liberal, hippie, fruity, tree hugging, jungle loving, trailer trash, retarded, occultist leftist shrimps ALWAYS condemn Christians for homophobia when Muslims, conservative Jews, Sikhs, and Zoroastrians oppose gay marriage too? I'm no Christian myself. I'm an Arya Samaj Hindu that grew up embracing a few Christian traditions. I have no opinion toward gays marrying. But what is scary is they NEVER say that they're against porn, promiscuity, bestiality, and other perversion.
This video made me weep through and through Antiquity. I Love You. Honestly I cannot believe how many people are ignorant assholes and cannot tolerate the pure love between people. I just wish that I had been old enough to vote NO! I'm 13 and I am able to see how Wrong this is It is just horribly Disgusting how many people are so incredibly cruel and intolerant of an un-harmful thing as Gay Marriage. I AM SO SORRY ANTIQUITY!!! I AM YOUR SUPPORTER!!!!!!
That is definitely one of the most powerful speeches I've heard in my life... Truly powerful, I wish I watched this in 08! It amazes me that you didn't cry. Prop 8 is awful.
i bet that those ppl who disliked the video were the ppl who voted yes and i no this was so long ago still if u r gonna hate the vid then dont watch it
I don't know how you didn't cry. You're a very strong person. I wish I could've voted, even though I'm not american, because this whole thing about gays are evil, pretty much what hey're saying, is stupid. stuff like this enrages me to no end.
@Antiquitydreams I am straight myself, and even i agree with you. I'm onboard, i'm on you're side, i'd happily stand next to you and fight for love with you and your wife, all my friends would do the same. This is something i wish i could banish from the world. I wish i had something like what you two share. I wish you and your wife all the best. Being yourself is all you can be. <3
Raven is SO right. Even though this was recorded a long time ago. I cried so much. It took like 30 minutes for me to just calm down. She is amazing for standing up. This was the best 9 minutes and 6 seconds of my life. Poor Raven sounds like she's going to cry. It's terrible that yes on 8 won. It really doesn't hurt anyone. Go Raven and Sabrina.
I don't remember anything of Prop 8 because my mind was innocent and my parents wouldn't tell me anything. But after listening to this, I wish I were above 18, so I could have voted No on that Prop. I can't understand why the hell they would do that?! I'm Christian, or as I claim to be, and I believe that God gave people freedom to choose their life-styles. And I believe that Prop 8 has taken many of that freedom people had. I believe it is wrong. Therefore I am with you, I agree.
You made VERY GOOD points. I agree completely(although i'm not married or in a relationship right now) and if i were a lesbian i would want those right to. i hear some people say that children can't be raised by two of the same sex, but i think that's not true because love can do a lot of things. =D i'll fight 4 love 2
i think this is the nost touching video ever. I almost cried a little and you are so right. my parents happen to be homophobic and i got kicked out of my house at 16 and had to live with a friend untill after highschool when i got kicked out of there to.
Sasu, this video inspired me, and truly made me cry.
Even though I, at this age of 15(Birthday is today, actually), am still considered a 'child' or 'teenager', I want to marry a girl I'm in love with when I am old enough.
I want to get it legalized in my own state, so that we don't have to leave the state that we're in or the country because we want to marry.
I think it's WRONG that Prop 8 was even thrown out there.
I'm a human being. I have the same red blood as everyone else.
Wow, great letter, I don't think too many supporters would have anything to say after watching that. Most young Americans and many influential people and organizations support equality. These bigots are stuck in an old world and are fighting a losing battle. All they can do is delay the inevitable.
People only fear what they can't comprehend or understand. And, it NOT RIGHT to take away someone’s ability to live the way they want to because of your own ignorance. Every word, every phrase is true. I champion you for saying what your heart feels and I’m sorry others are dictating the way you want to coexist with your partner. I know it’s vastly belated, but I apologize for their ignorance. And, thank you for writing that letter.
Supporters of Prop 8 can claim that they are not bigots but FACTUALLY they are
I believe the definition of a bigot is someone who is so intolerant that he/she will discriminate against someone different just because of their believes that are not upheld by evidence. The supporters of Prop 8 proved their bigotry by telling gay men and women that their love was not equal to their own.
I am taken back ny what you said... I'm shocked and sick to my stomache by what people are doing. I have never wanted to scream so loud in my life. Your words are pure and as poetic as could be. I go to a catholic school and I had no idea. I want to help you if I still can but if not I hope you get what you are fighting for
You did what alot of people couldn't you are truly a brave person to stick your neck out there for others and yourself knowing that some people would disagree you stood up for something that is a part of life you stood up for love and weather a couple consists of a man and a woman or two people of the same gender shouldn't matter as long as there is love and happiness in the relationship it is right a person should not be denied the right to openly love someone because someone says its wrong it
This video made me cry.. When I was a little girl, I used to obsess over the idea of my future wedding. Then I turned out to be a lesbian and I was told I wasnt allowed to marry.. It makes me sick to think, that because of how homosexuals are born, and because of a fact they can not change they deny them marrige. How Can these twisted homophobes look at their little girls dreaming of white dresses and bouquets and tell them if they are born with a certain gene their dreams will be denied..
Please don't heap all Christians into one group myself as a christen soupourt gay rights and Think they should have equal rights to adopt and love each other :) why should children who could go to loving same sex parents?be robbed of loving homes When there hetro parents obversely don't want them God bless :D
Good that it was struck down... the measure was so un-American, so against Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. And wow, that girl looks like the Future, a really good future.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
YES ON 8..BEING GAY IS WRONGGGG!!!! I HATE FAGGOTS.BUT I HATE PEOPLE THAT LOVE GAY PEOPLE EVEN MORE. DEATH TO ALL FAGGOTS.FROM ELLEN TO ELTTON..PROUD SOUTHERN MALE..GO GATORS..
People seriously need to watch this. I don't care about particular religions so don't bring that up. One thing i'm hoping we can agree on is EVIL, we can also agree that SATAN is associated with evil. SO if people follow a satanist can you really think they care about morality!?
Also being gay is not genetics this is a FACT! I know it might be hard and confusing to a point where people really feel like there's no choice and are stuck with it. but there's hope
how ever said yes i hope your happy because guess what you are murders. murders of family murders happiness and worst of all murders of love its not fair to have your happiness taken away just because your a little different you should not have the right to do that to people.So i hope your happy because you are just AFULL
how ever said yes i hope your happy because guess what you are murders. murders of family murders happiness and worst of all murders of love its not fair to have your happiness taken away just because your a little different you should not have the right to do that to people.So i hope your happy because you are just AFULL
@Lacocacolaman I'd argue that seperation of church and state works the other way around . As the power structure of governments in the medieval world would exemplify. And look at the miseries of the medieval world that were brought about by the religious institutions of the time. It is to disempower the church yes. But to safeguard the people from religious abuse.
@slonights no that is more of a hardcore communist agenda. Even most athiests will say believe what ylou want we will just think you are stupid for doing so. Also you have to ask as a christian why did god make them that way?
@mikeyrobins022585 What the crap dude >:( she is really upset over this she is one of the many ppl who's life is goin to be fucked up because of prop 8 passing! Its a beautiful thing what her and supernovadobe have :'''( If ppl are happy together, leave them the fuck alone they arent fuckin with your love life! They are happy with one another, you could just wish to find someone that would make your world brighter, or make you happier then you have ever been in your life..then u would understand
@mikeyrobins022585 I think they threw away the wrong bit of you at your birth. What kind of christian are you? Its funny how you guys follow that law of leviticus but not the others....oh your not Jewish...well I don't see how you can ignore gods word for gods people on how to live, you shouldn't pick and choose just because the church decided to follow one rule but not the others.You shouldn't be talking to ANYONE for eating 3 day old meat Justify how what you just said is what Jesus teaches
@mikeyrobins022585It doesnt say anything in the 10 commandments aboout homosexuality though(you'd have thought if it was so wrong it might) which were given to Moses on Mt Saini, just like Levitucus' laws were given to Moses on Mt Sanai you shouldn't covet your neighbors ass, or SLAVE it says, god says slavery is ok it seems. Fucking bullshit is what it is...and you are a moron for not questioning it, and for saying that. The devil will FUCK YOUR ARSE BLOODY HAHAHAHAHAh
leave her alone she is fighting for wats right n everything tht she beleives in she is fighting for me my frenns my family her frens her family her self and evry other gay bi lez people its not right to judge people by their sexuality people should take this advice"i dont care if your gay lez bi if your nice to me ill be nice back"-emenim.but think about it this way what if your mom or dad was gay lez or even bi what would you do what would your oppion be?
oh yeah that shit about your grandad and dad,Well I'm allowed to say what I want apparently. I prob wouldn't have put you on there if I had finished reading your second message(whoops xD) but hey. Oh yeah that acceptence of majority rule is one of the problems with democratic society, it does lead to herd mentallity. Just as not liking a bloke cos of where he puts his dick(within reason) is a product of unquestioning obidience towards the herd view.
@illdeletethis a threat to bigotry maybe.As an athiest please ask yourself this question... why does society have this concept that homosexuality is dirty and immoral? The answer has EVERYTHING to do with the church.
It's in Leviticus,either before or after the correct way to sacrifice a bull for whatever irrational transgression against god. The way the church has developed hand in hand with government across the world, especially European monarchies, through history, is why the view exists.
@Lacocacolaman hahahah yeah I know, I do revel in the irony of it. The idea of inequality just sets my flow off. You felt the discharge. What did I trash you with, I forgot?
@illdeletethis how the fuck do you have the right as a human being to tell another human being not to do something with their life if it doesn't cause harm to anyone, and doesn't make anyone feel like shit. Especially yourself. Wanker.
@illdeletethis 1 laws are almost always not decided by referendum in democracy.
2 liberalism and reformation were what dragged Monarchistic and Oligarchic societies into democracies, ergo liberalism is part of the bedrock of democracy, not a radical splinter of it.
3 these laws you speak of that defend minorities were put in to give equality to man as your arsehole grandfather and father and also it seems you would not allow such equality.
@Lacocacolaman not really that sounds like descrimination to me, and a legitimate courts case, and I have the same sexuality you claim to.And re being happy,I dunno about that. As long as they dont have arseholes telling them they're dirty and immoral they seem pretty happy (gay) and healthy to me. I've known a few. Unlike you who clearly wont inflict yourself upon people.
@Lacocacolaman well you should be talking about it. Sky daddy would want that.It is a christian duty after all. When you stand before him what are you going to say? Sorry but I couldn't be bothered defending you, or spreading the gospel. The topics are absoulutely related. If you are religious. Infact religion is where the root of homosexual discrimination comes from. It is skydaddys way. Do you think he'd let the gentiles off in the same way he let them off penis mutilation?
@Lacocacolaman anything to do wiyh the catholic church in Africa saying that condoms do nothing to stop you catching aids. Evil. That was going on for years. And did the church recieve any punishment for such crimes? No no they'll get theirs in hell. But to them they're doing gods work.
HAHA what does the evil catholic church have to do with anything!? Those guys are just as much Christians as the DEVIL is. What does it have to do with 3 day meat!? You do realize I'm not JEWISH! you can't bring the Jewish laws to a CHRISTIAN. I'm a follower of christ and he came and fulfilled the laws. maybe if you actually read the new testament and not the old you would know how the faith works. Also if you want evidence for God it's everywhere. Lifes existence is proof.
@Lacocacolaman No no . Those are gods laws. It is in the bible.Not for man to refute. As was done with the apostolic decree.And I understand it was given to moses leading the Isrealites, tell me then, why does christianity recognise the 10 commandments(which makes no reference to homosexuality, except maybe do not covet thy neighbors ass-open to translation maybe?)-given to Moses at mount Sinai- But not the laws given to Moses at mount Sinai?
@Lacocacolaman I understand that many Christian groups do not recognise Leviticus...And yet you still take SOME of the laws, especially those regarding sexual conduct directly from here. How can MAN pick and choose GODS law.It is in the bible, is it just Jews? God really doesn't want them to have any fun huh? It says nothing about homosexuality in the 10 commandments as I said. Also christ is god is he not? The father the son (not a catholic yeah but you belive gods word don't you?)
@DontGetVaginal well we go by the ten commandments and also with the new Testament. Maybe if you read the new testament you would understand a bit more about it. The LAW was intended for the Israelites not Christians. it was intended to separate Gods nation from everyone else in a way to keep purity in. One of our Christian laws is “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39)
@Lacocacolaman So where in the new testament is it written that homosexuality is wrong?The commandments you live by say nothing about homosexuality, if it was wrong it would be in there surely. By the way the time leviticus was written there were no christians so surely that law was delivered to moses with the idea of it being applied to gods people. All gods people not just his favoured Jewish people who he then visits terrible suffering upon throughout the centuries as a reward for being good.
@Lacocacolaman yeah but do you love your gay neighbors? I can't say that your comments suggest that you do. And aids btw is more prevalent in the straight community nowdays btw.
@DontGetVaginal Although at times I do come off as mean I really don't mean too I just get mad that people keep the confused in darkness. I really want to help homosexuals that want to be helped.
@Lacocacolaman, you don't mean to? OK. You are born into a hatefull establishment masquerading as a loving one, though what conclusions were you supposed to draw with old testament mean god suddenly becoming nicey nice Jesus. so if you have an unquestioning nature then yeah ok you dont mean to be a twat. My question was where do you get the idea homosexuality is wrong. It is not in the christian commandments, and the only source I can find cited for it is Leviticus. So if those laws don't apply
@Lacocacolaman christians, then i propose that only Jews are forbidden gay love. Also I would doubt that any "confused" homosexual would want YOUR help. You only say it is wrong but you have to tell me where it is said so yet.
@Lacocacolaman How do you explain in the new revised standared version of the bible, the text Exodus 20 2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21 it says You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. SLAVE!!! God condones SLAVERY. What the fuck? This isn't in some "revised" versions of the bible. Again man picks at the scripture, its either gods word or mans word.
@Lacocacolaman I have found 2 sources stated in the new testament Corinthians and Romans that cite homosexuality is wrong. HOWEVER this is not gods law.Or anything Jesus said. This is ONE MAN-PAUL talking about how he feels that people should live their lives to worship god. It was during the early attempts to establish one christian church as opposed to sects of christianity. You live based upon this MANS teaching(and people around him then questioned whether he was a legitamate apostle.)
@Lacocacolaman And also paul was known to have cited stories about the Jews to show that humanity could be seen as rightious by god, ergo he clearly does see some parallel to the way Jews live and the way christians should live to please god. In my opinion this shows influence from Jewish law being written into christian creed, I feel this lends legitimacy to my opinion that christians should look more to Jewish law than what ytou said that it does not apply.
shit, the 8 thing got aprroved? shit.. man.. i'm glad i don't live in america.. i'm really sorry man.. thats gotta be really, really hard. i'm not a fan of marriage but i can understand why ppl of all types of ppl, gay, lezbian, bi. straight. and i can openly say. if i'd been aware before hand + been in america + old enough, i wud so of voted no. :'(
I'm Catholic and I totally agree with every word you said. I'm ashamed with the way my religion acts, it makes me ill. I'm a yaoi fan and I'm so scared to tell my parents because of what they've been brain-washed to believe. I'm even more scared of the fact I'm questioning my sexuality at the moment.
You've given me strength, and for that I'm grateful! <3
I am fighting. Everyone had a right, the right of happiness. Of in this case, they should. It is not right to take that away. The only thing that is being taught in schools about gays is coming from other students, that it is bad and wrong. I am afraid to be in a relationship with another female, I am bi, because of the discrimination that goes through my school. There has been more then a couple of suicides at my school because of this. It should end. No, it has to end. Now.
@1Deidaras0Gal1 chin up, school will be over one day. Then you don't have to be locked in with the wankers. The predjidice eases up but is still something you will have to deal with as an adult, centuries of bigotry will not just disappear. I have found talking to a lot of people with homophobic views that their bigotry is often stemmed from ignorance about the reasons why homosexuality is taboo in society. Many people don't even know why they hate gays. I am pretty sure it's all religious
@1Deidaras0Gal1 I can't say I've read all texts concerning the "abomination" of homosexuality but in the bible and torah god outlaws homosexuality in leviticus. Read that shit. (not the first few chapters, it is all sacrifice rules) It is actually your best defence next to sense. Western civilisation has grown up around the religious establishment and social attitudes have been driven by the clergy for centuries. But if someone can't prove to you god is real, then what are they basing their
@1Deidaras0Gal1 attitudes upon? Seriously I am sure religion is the core of it. Also research Gentiles and the Apostolic decree to understand how the modern church can "pick and choose" Gods law. So if they are not religious then ask why the hatred. If they are then say prove it. Realistically there is no way that it will disappear in a generation where gaybashing is cuturally acceptable and promoted by the media, but what can you do but tackle it one mind at a time. That is where thebattle lies
@Lacocacolaman Personally, I am Pansexual, and I believe God exists. So now let me tell you that you are in the wrong. God teaches love and kindness, something that straights often(not always) fail to show. Because I believe God exists, lets leave religion out of it and have a real convo, shall we?
well the discussion was about the age 18 does not mean you're fully mentally developed. And I'm curious about where you got your sources to this "develop until the age of 21-23" i know everyone is different the point i was making that 18 is not an age of enlightenment. I'm glad you believe in God but to be proud and boastful of a sin is not a good thing. I'm not saying HELL is your punishment but from what I understand it doesn't look very good for you.
@iamangelbgood oh wait he didn't though did he. That was a descision men took without skydaddy when christianity first became truely established. And the people who followed gods laws, the Isrealites. Well their reward fo keeping the faithis genocide through the ages.
Civil Union is fine but Marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and woman. Gay people have always had more rights in the U.S. than most other countries. Look at how Asia treats gays.
@christianblackmtlrlz It's not about whether we have more rights than other countries! It's about our rights as EQUAL AMERICANS!
And the whole "religious" thing? Shove it! God is supposed to be a loving, FAIR God! So if he's fair, why the hell can't we love who we love? It's people like you, uncaring, nonunderstanding jerks that piss me off!
@iamangelbgood thats the thing though. God was an arsehole in the old testament (which is where he told humanity how to live) but then seems to sort his life out when he realises he's gonna be a daddy. I think the church was po'd cos they decided upon the apostolic decree and threw out many of his laws. Almost every christian today breaks the laws of leviticus one way or another.
@DontGetVaginal Hmm... I was raised Christian, but I personally disagree with alot of my old church's views and traditions. I haven't been a member for over 3 years, and I finally just broke off completely about a year ago. So, I believe in alot of Christian stuff, but I'm not really a Christian, more like a mix of all religions and beliefs. (I can't explain it in such small space! >.<)
As for being irked, I have my own problems with God, and I honestly thought that what you said was awesome!
@iamangelbgood thats quite interesting. It takes a lot of courage and self determinism to break away from an establishment you have known your whole life. What do your folks say? What pushed you away?
@DontGetVaginal They don't really know, though they know I don't attend church anymore. I'm 19, so I have freedom in that area, and I am still respectful when they pray or talk about the church.
I walked away because my church is more worried about healthy living than the souls of it's members. I also did not agree with some of the beliefs they support, and I have my own beliefs as well. For instance, I believe that as long as love is honest, it is pure, whether it is same sex or not.
@iamangelbgood can you describe what your beliefs are? I'd love to understand. I have some American relatives in Conneticut who are lesbian believers btw and who are married in the eyes of god.
@christianblackmtlrlz good. Why are you saying it like they're greedy for it? It seems that now they don't have the same rights as hetros. If you do not follow the laws of Leviticus, as skydaddy tells gods children, then I propose you are a bad christian. And I would bet that you don't.
Very well written letter, but with many mistruths. You think it is your right to change all the laws of the country and the very deffinition of marriage. This is a battle of whether people believe gay marriage should be recognized. People do not and will not ever want to recognize gay marriage. seeking the approval of society will not make you feel better. I do not hate gays. Opposing gay marriage is not hate. Dont play the victim. It is not RIGHTS. too much emotion lacking logic. :)
So mad, I don't know what to say without sounding like a hater...
Change the laws of the country? Are you stupid? The constitution says that we have EQUAL rights, no matter who we are! You are taking our right to marry!
The definition of marriage is not a man marrying a woman! It is two people being united as one in love! Marriage allows two people to be seen as a true couple!
So shut up, and quit acting like your not a hater. Cuz, I've got news for you: YOU ARE
@iamangelbgood I have no hate for gays. I have gay friends and a gay uncle. I simply believe that marriage is the sacred uniting of man and woman. Most people all over the world agree with me. Its not about certain people not having the same rights. Im a man and I cant have a baby. EVen if I want to. Only a woman can. I believe (like most people) that marriage is between man and woman and even if in certain cases gay marriage is allowed it isnt valid whether or not a piece of paper says so.
@bobybob10000 maybe you don't feel the emotion of hate. But you certainly don't believe in equality. And lacking logic? Explain how...please this should be amusing.
@DontGetVaginal You think I dont believe in equality? Does belief in equality mean one has to conform to your belief system? Prop 8 is people supporting something they believe in. Its a propostion to keep things the way they currently are because that is the right way for them to be. I accept that you disagree. You wont convince me that gay marriage is right, I wont convince you to believe what I believe. Acceptance is understanding differences and accepting them, not using biggot, hateful ect
@DontGetVaginal I think it is wrong because marriage is the union of a man and woman in love. The whole issue here is people against prop 8 want to change that deffinition to any two humans in love. I think that marriage is a special thing reserved for only a man and a woman. I dont hate gays I just see marriage as that. I just wish people wouldnt call others hateful or biggots ect because they believe differently, I respect that you disagree, respect that everyone against you doesnt hate.
@DontGetVaginal Well, for me simply because that is the way I believe it is meant to be. Most people in favour of prop 8 (the majority of people in califirnia and people in the world) feel the same, they simply dont think the deffinition of marriage should be changed from what it is because thats the way they feel. theres no hate, or judgement, we simply like the way things are I think it fine if you want to lobby for your beliefs but dont do so by knocking down everyone who believes contrary.
@bobybob10000 People throughout history have suffered due to that view. In medieval Europe, feudalism was the way it was for hundreds of years. Everyone tied into 1 heirachy with 1 man at the top. People were born into this world and didn't reform anything for centuries because it was felt that it was the way it was meant to be. And of course they suffered for it and had very little in the way of human rights as we know them today.
@DontGetVaginal Sorry, I was out there for a bit. I guess my point is tolerance cant be a one way thing. People with different veiws cant expect everyone to agree with their point but they need to tolerate other people's differences. I personally feel that marriage has always been defined as a man and woman and I believe the family is a sacred special thing. A homosexual couple isnt "bad" but I just believe marriage is only meant for a man and woman. some wont agree and i accept that.
@bobybob10000 OK but why exclusively is marriage an institution between man and woman?. There has to be a higher rational than "Because thats the way it's always been". Humanity would never have developed if we just kept everything the same for the sake of it.
@DontGetVaginal You are absolutly right. My personal belief is that marriage and the family are central in God's plan. I believe Satan is working his hardest to destroy the family unit, this can be seen in divorce, abortion, abuse, homosexuality, ect. The list is endless. For SOme of these little can be done but if given the opportunity to vote on it as in prop 8 I will vote in favour because of this. Not becasue I hate but becasue its what I believe. DOes that make any sense?
@bobybob10000 but god doesn't outlaw homosexuality(for christians apparently) Its not in the commandments(although slavery gets a passing condonance). And Jesus never said it. Infact IF a gay couple wanted to adopt(which i bet you don't agree with-sorry this is a little off topic but I reacon still relavent) and were to provide a happy home wouldn't the institution of a proper marriage provide a decent stable family enviroment for that child?
@DontGetVaginal Your assumption that I believe this because it is in the bible is incorrect. The ten commandments are not the only laws God has. To put it simply, If the bible was the only way God spoke to man that wouldnt make much sense. The bible can be interpreted 1000s of ways, thats why there are 1000s of religions. As for adoption, I think having homosexual "parents" hugely taints the childs perception of the family and is not good. Again, these are just my personal beliefs.
@bobybob10000 what makes you believe in god period if not what is in the scriptures? If you are to tell me god talks to man then I say how could it be proved it is god and not a mental health disorder? What evidence suggests to you that god thinks homosexuality is wrong?
@DontGetVaginal I believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, There are many versions because of translation errors. I also believe God has a prophet on earth today and there is further scripture beyond the bible. God has always worked through prophets and continues to today. Modern day scripture reveals The essential nature of the marriage of man and woman and the importance of the family.
@bobybob10000 Who is this prophet? And why do you believe he is legitamate? And if it is not the scripture in the bible then what is the scripture you are referring too? Also I have overlooked this by my assumptions, what denomination are you?
@DontGetVaginal I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This prophet is Thomas S. Monson. The other scripture I refer to is a book which is a record of God's people on the American continent called The Book of Mormon. Other scripture is also words of the modern day prophets, which give information about modern issues and stuff like that. And as for his legitimacy, I know he is a true prophet, I cant show you that though, the only way you can know is by searching.
@DontGetVaginal I cant handle these 500 letter debates, what we talk about is far too much and is completely incoherent when you have like 50 different discussions going on. it's totally confusing. If your goal was to hide away everyones good comments and flood it with your opinions BRAVO.
@Lacocacolaman Don't be a cock, you flooded this page way before I did with your self sanctimonious condemnation of your fellow man. All of it just your opinion(because you can't prove god even exists) Don't tell me how to live my life.A tip on how to debate as you said you are stuggling, go through 1 by 1 and discuss the content of each comment. Use reply button. What I have said is perfectly valid and I think you can't logically debate my points. Or if you can't be bothered to then I win hahah
@DontGetVaginal yes you win. Jeeze if only i had the patience to win by annoying the crap out of someone in a tidies way. Also I don't recal ever bringing up the bible I think i used science to talk about how homosexuality is not healthy to individual. Not to mention psychological.
@Lacocacolaman no okay a few people have already made you look like the tit you are already, no need for me to go over it again...I thought you'd like to debate the bible though, seeing as how you were throwing it around in those earlier threads. And it is the root of your oppinions on homosexuality and gay marriage(you feel justified to lay scorn on others based on those oppinions) but hey.
With you all the way. My parents are homophobic and even though I myself am straight, everyone has the absolute right to marry and love whomever they choose. We have three unalienable rights, those being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Marrying the one you love is a right no one should ever be able to take away.
Stay strong. We will win this.
MaxRide14Feet 1 week ago
Our forefathers fought and died for homosexuality? You're misinformed.
Sodomy was a crime from the get-go in America. The Puritans punished those they discovered practicting sodomy. George Washington kicked any homosexuals he found out of the Army when he was general.
Our forefathers fought and died for religious freedom, property freedom, and life and limb preservation. They weren't stacking logs at Bunker Hill so they could sodomize each other in peace.
aldoreshgaramok 2 weeks ago
@aldoreshgaramok so im guessing ur not for gay marriage lol
MrHarajukuLuva 5 days ago
@MrHarajukuLuva Obviously not. Homosexuals can do what they do as consenting adults (and also because its not compatible with the 4th amendment) to outlaw sodomy.
But homosexual "marriage" is just not acceptable in a healthy society.
aldoreshgaramok 3 days ago
@aldoreshgaramok I really don't know how it's causing an "unhealthy society"...i wish the people who are so against gay marriage would spend more of their energy trying to outlaw divorce instead...i think that causes more damage than gay marriage
MrHarajukuLuva 3 days ago
@MrHarajukuLuva Well that is a noble cause as well, but I would probably be more in favor of simply abolishing "no-fault" divorce, and the awarding of alimony, rather than wholly outlawing divorce.
aldoreshgaramok 2 days ago
You know, I'm not usually a very emotional person. In fact, I feel it's weak to cry. But this video, no matter how many times I've watched it, always puts me on the verge of tears.
I have to read something aloud for my speech class, and I want to read this letter. My state doesn't allow gay marriage, but I think if others hear your speech someone, even if only one, will be moved enough to tell others and, eventually, move enough people change the minds of our house members. Thank you so mu
Dexineable 1 month ago
I remember after i found out the Prop got more "Yes's" then "No's" came out i was pretty disappointed because me and my my Girlfriend were engaged and no sorry but then we couldnt so then e just had to stay a couple. This prop actually ruined the relationship because my parents were Homophobic and they voted yes and this in which caused trouble to her family and mine so we had to break up..Umm..so yeah Raven i totally agree the people that voted "Yes" destoryed alot of hopes even my Engagment..
FlyingLeafs 1 month ago
so after i watched this i watched more and i wanna move to cali!!!
UzumakiBarrageRox059 1 month ago
I cried and watched this again...and cried again...and keep watching cuz this makes such an impact. If gay marriage is still illegal in California by the time I turn 18 I will move there until I can vote NO!!!
I can totally imagine that
*my 18th birthday*
Me:Hey mom! I leaving now!
Mom:Where ya going?
Me:IM MOVING TO CALIFORNIA TO SHOW ALL THOSE IDIOTS WHO VOTED YES ON PROP 8!!!
Mom:Ok ok write me sometime. (one down 2 more 2 go)
X3
(I'm not making fun of you here by making my comment stupid..)
UzumakiBarrageRox059 1 month ago
Raven, I couldnt possibly agree with u more. I have seen my own friend bullied to the point that he thought suicide was the only option left for him all because he was gay. I have been with him, fighting with him to keep him goin strong. Love is not about gender. Love is that deep passion u hold for someone else. I hold that passion for someone that I loved for along time, only a short while ago did we confess to eachother. I love her, and I will fight for wat I believe in. Thank u Raven. <3
CosplayUrHeartOut 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Antiquitydreams
Why is it that you liberal, hippie, fruity, tree hugging, jungle loving, trailer trash, retarded, occultist leftist shrimps ALWAYS condemn Christians for homophobia when Muslims, conservative Jews, Sikhs, and Zoroastrians oppose gay marriage too? I'm no Christian myself. I'm an Arya Samaj Hindu that grew up embracing a few Christian traditions. I have no opinion toward gays marrying. But what is scary is they NEVER say that they're against porn, promiscuity, bestiality, and other perversion.
TheLavish99 2 months ago
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TheLavish99 2 months ago
What's the name of the song that's playing? Raven, you're so amazing. :) People are just immature...
avengemyclan0723 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Antiquitydreams
This video made me weep through and through Antiquity. I Love You. Honestly I cannot believe how many people are ignorant assholes and cannot tolerate the pure love between people. I just wish that I had been old enough to vote NO! I'm 13 and I am able to see how Wrong this is It is just horribly Disgusting how many people are so incredibly cruel and intolerant of an un-harmful thing as Gay Marriage. I AM SO SORRY ANTIQUITY!!! I AM YOUR SUPPORTER!!!!!!
ZevaUchiha 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Antiquitydreams 2
That is definitely one of the most powerful speeches I've heard in my life... Truly powerful, I wish I watched this in 08! It amazes me that you didn't cry. Prop 8 is awful.
1r3n3Char1s 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Antiquitydreams
i bet that those ppl who disliked the video were the ppl who voted yes and i no this was so long ago still if u r gonna hate the vid then dont watch it
trantuyet1998 2 months ago
Thumbs up if you are still waching this in 2011
emilypena01 2 months ago 4
I don't know how you didn't cry. You're a very strong person. I wish I could've voted, even though I'm not american, because this whole thing about gays are evil, pretty much what hey're saying, is stupid. stuff like this enrages me to no end.
crowbie15 2 months ago
@Antiquitydreams I am straight myself, and even i agree with you. I'm onboard, i'm on you're side, i'd happily stand next to you and fight for love with you and your wife, all my friends would do the same. This is something i wish i could banish from the world. I wish i had something like what you two share. I wish you and your wife all the best. Being yourself is all you can be. <3
Chiri15LeChiki 3 months ago
Who else wants to punch the people who won? I do! Raven, I hope some day that you win. We love you -3
MsAnimeFan620 4 months ago
Hey, who else wa
MsAnimeFan620 4 months ago
Amen
cupcakeana1 4 months ago
Sooo cute!! Your so right. I dont think anyone could have said it any better ^^
nobodyheart162 4 months ago
You're right, girl...you're right :')
MandyBuglet 4 months ago
Raven is SO right. Even though this was recorded a long time ago. I cried so much. It took like 30 minutes for me to just calm down. She is amazing for standing up. This was the best 9 minutes and 6 seconds of my life. Poor Raven sounds like she's going to cry. It's terrible that yes on 8 won. It really doesn't hurt anyone. Go Raven and Sabrina.
UzumakiBarrageRox059 5 months ago 4
True
comotose762 5 months ago
@comotose762 ok so I never had a dad I must be fucked up then right?
IXIAXELIXI 5 months ago
how do you stop a fag from hanging around your front yard?....hang him in your back yard.
knowatimean 5 months ago
please let me know the name of the music playing in this. I love the message and the music thanks! :)
ohyaimcoolest 5 months ago
I don't remember anything of Prop 8 because my mind was innocent and my parents wouldn't tell me anything. But after listening to this, I wish I were above 18, so I could have voted No on that Prop. I can't understand why the hell they would do that?! I'm Christian, or as I claim to be, and I believe that God gave people freedom to choose their life-styles. And I believe that Prop 8 has taken many of that freedom people had. I believe it is wrong. Therefore I am with you, I agree.
xxxFanxxx30 5 months ago
You made VERY GOOD points. I agree completely(although i'm not married or in a relationship right now) and if i were a lesbian i would want those right to. i hear some people say that children can't be raised by two of the same sex, but i think that's not true because love can do a lot of things. =D i'll fight 4 love 2
AdmittingImCrazy116 5 months ago
You made some good points, but I had to stop watching at about 1:30 cause your music was annoying me and making it hard to listen to you.
hargemouch 5 months ago
i think this is the nost touching video ever. I almost cried a little and you are so right. my parents happen to be homophobic and i got kicked out of my house at 16 and had to live with a friend untill after highschool when i got kicked out of there to.
ThePoeticsoul777 6 months ago
(continued,,again)
& you're right, we will take homophobes down. We will outlast them. Because, if we have love to fight with, as opposed to hate, we can do anything.
D2BDxLOVE 6 months ago
(continued)
I have a beating heart, I have lungs, and I also have what most people have; feelings.
I have love, sadness, anger, just as anyone else does.
Just the fact that I like women instead of men, I am having my rights taken away.
I don't want to have to file 'single' on anything if I marry a girl.
Why should my rights be taken away, the rights I was GIVEN the second I was born, just because I am a lesbian, and other people fear that?
Why is it SO WRONG for me to love a girl?
D2BDxLOVE 6 months ago
Sasu, this video inspired me, and truly made me cry.
Even though I, at this age of 15(Birthday is today, actually), am still considered a 'child' or 'teenager', I want to marry a girl I'm in love with when I am old enough.
I want to get it legalized in my own state, so that we don't have to leave the state that we're in or the country because we want to marry.
I think it's WRONG that Prop 8 was even thrown out there.
I'm a human being. I have the same red blood as everyone else.
D2BDxLOVE 6 months ago
*dabbes tears* That was amazing. 3 years have passed since you posted this, but your message is timeless. Bravo Antiquitydreams bravo.
TheHyenaLivesOnInMe 6 months ago
this speech moved me so much, everything you said is what all people should be taking to heart, why must bigotry and hate stand in the way of love?
xxsam234xx 6 months ago
WE LOVE YOU!!!!
scarlectra 7 months ago 7
thank u for this i admire u for this thank you for fighting for our rights thank u raven me my frenns my family we r all writin this
chelsea(fren)i love you
chad(fren)girl ur a amazing cosplayr
mom raven darling keep ur dreams open and ur hopes up bcuz tht was the most touching thing my daughter had showd me
kala(fren)girl message scarlectra and tell her if it gets passd or not plz
scarlectra(jessica me) see raven ur an inspiration to all of us keep fighting we give you all our hope
from all:WLY
scarlectra 7 months ago
Wow, great letter, I don't think too many supporters would have anything to say after watching that. Most young Americans and many influential people and organizations support equality. These bigots are stuck in an old world and are fighting a losing battle. All they can do is delay the inevitable.
pewpmonkey 7 months ago
even though this was recorded 3 years ago i still cried and honestly Raven is right she loves Sabrina and no won should keep them from being together
671sweetangel 7 months ago 34
@671sweetangel : " no won"? or no one
knowatimean 2 months ago
@knowatimean lol it was suppose to be no one
671sweetangel 2 months ago
People only fear what they can't comprehend or understand. And, it NOT RIGHT to take away someone’s ability to live the way they want to because of your own ignorance. Every word, every phrase is true. I champion you for saying what your heart feels and I’m sorry others are dictating the way you want to coexist with your partner. I know it’s vastly belated, but I apologize for their ignorance. And, thank you for writing that letter.
sapphirefallenangel1 7 months ago
All the things you said are very true :) thank you for sharing.
God loves all.
ForkandNumNum 7 months ago
Beautiful Speech
Supporters of Prop 8 can claim that they are not bigots but FACTUALLY they are
I believe the definition of a bigot is someone who is so intolerant that he/she will discriminate against someone different just because of their believes that are not upheld by evidence. The supporters of Prop 8 proved their bigotry by telling gay men and women that their love was not equal to their own.
kellykanta88 7 months ago
that was very, very well said.
zepalom 7 months ago
I am taken back ny what you said... I'm shocked and sick to my stomache by what people are doing. I have never wanted to scream so loud in my life. Your words are pure and as poetic as could be. I go to a catholic school and I had no idea. I want to help you if I still can but if not I hope you get what you are fighting for
DarkSoul9985 7 months ago
You did what alot of people couldn't you are truly a brave person to stick your neck out there for others and yourself knowing that some people would disagree you stood up for something that is a part of life you stood up for love and weather a couple consists of a man and a woman or two people of the same gender shouldn't matter as long as there is love and happiness in the relationship it is right a person should not be denied the right to openly love someone because someone says its wrong it
mooseandbubbles 7 months ago
This video made me cry.. When I was a little girl, I used to obsess over the idea of my future wedding. Then I turned out to be a lesbian and I was told I wasnt allowed to marry.. It makes me sick to think, that because of how homosexuals are born, and because of a fact they can not change they deny them marrige. How Can these twisted homophobes look at their little girls dreaming of white dresses and bouquets and tell them if they are born with a certain gene their dreams will be denied..
MissReeChan 7 months ago
Truly powerful...
Thank you.
C7NoteKing 7 months ago
Please don't heap all Christians into one group myself as a christen soupourt gay rights and Think they should have equal rights to adopt and love each other :) why should children who could go to loving same sex parents?be robbed of loving homes When there hetro parents obversely don't want them God bless :D
kezza5 7 months ago
Good that it was struck down... the measure was so un-American, so against Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. And wow, that girl looks like the Future, a really good future.
mookins45 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
yes on 8
ensanehomie 7 months ago
I've always loved this video even though it's a bit outdated since it got revoked anyway.
The Bible was the best science-fiction novel ever written.
seertmlap 7 months ago
I fully support you!
Love is love.
Race, gender, in the end doesn't matter.
TheAmiraD 7 months ago
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TheAmiraD 7 months ago
great video!
speedofpain90146 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
YES ON 8..BEING GAY IS WRONGGGG!!!! I HATE FAGGOTS.BUT I HATE PEOPLE THAT LOVE GAY PEOPLE EVEN MORE. DEATH TO ALL FAGGOTS.FROM ELLEN TO ELTTON..PROUD SOUTHERN MALE..GO GATORS..
southern34ways 8 months ago
@southern34ways You have got to be Shiting me... =___=
Times changed. Grow up. How would you like it if people say 'Death to all heteros'?
DarkAnimeSoul 8 months ago
@southern34ways trolololo
speedofpain90146 8 months ago
this video made me cry >.<
really truly love it!! <3 <3 <3
TheNaruchu777 9 months ago 36
I like your hair, looks epic.
rbritten17 9 months ago
that was so beautiful I almost cried
Misaki1996 9 months ago
The only thing I don't like about prop 8 is that I don't live in CA and couldn't vote yes. Oh, and I'm an "aposer" too.
whatupyoism 9 months ago
/watch?v=HKIMJoKCe3o
People seriously need to watch this. I don't care about particular religions so don't bring that up. One thing i'm hoping we can agree on is EVIL, we can also agree that SATAN is associated with evil. SO if people follow a satanist can you really think they care about morality!?
Also being gay is not genetics this is a FACT! I know it might be hard and confusing to a point where people really feel like there's no choice and are stuck with it. but there's hope
NARTH dot COM
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@slonights why did god make homosexuals wiuth such a disorder,,,seems a bit cruel to me.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@TiredGothGirl13
So, they can fall in love with the person of their choice, live together, get a civil union.
But because they can't get married in a church, they off themselves ?
Thats like someone giving you a brand new car, but refusing to drive it because its Blue instead of Red.
Gays discriminate against Christians constantly, they also attack anyone who publicly disagrees with them.
53dumey 9 months ago
how ever said yes i hope your happy because guess what you are murders. murders of family murders happiness and worst of all murders of love its not fair to have your happiness taken away just because your a little different you should not have the right to do that to people.So i hope your happy because you are just AFULL
physckokillir 9 months ago
how ever said yes i hope your happy because guess what you are murders. murders of family murders happiness and worst of all murders of love its not fair to have your happiness taken away just because your a little different you should not have the right to do that to people.So i hope your happy because you are just AFULL
physckokillir 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
nature created homos for some reasons:
1. To be stress busters, beating the shit out of them releases stress
2. Organ donors need a kidney,liver, heart grab a gay of your blood type and there you have replacement.
3. Tired of raising your babies just hand them over to these homos, they are absolute idiots they will raise anybodies kids.
4. You don't have any one to dip your cock in to, they are natural living blow me up dolls.
Thats homos for you piece of meat to be used and discarded
G41MCombo 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman I'd argue that seperation of church and state works the other way around . As the power structure of governments in the medieval world would exemplify. And look at the miseries of the medieval world that were brought about by the religious institutions of the time. It is to disempower the church yes. But to safeguard the people from religious abuse.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal HOW COULD YOU WASTE YOU'RE TIME WRITTING SO MANY COMMENTS JUST SEND ME A MESSAGE!
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Lacocacolaman because I want everyone who reads this thread to be able to evaluate the arguements. Pls get to responding.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Lacocacolaman because I want everyone who reads this thread to be able to evaluate the arguements. Pls get to responding.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@slonights no that is more of a hardcore communist agenda. Even most athiests will say believe what ylou want we will just think you are stupid for doing so. Also you have to ask as a christian why did god make them that way?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@slonights is reverse discrimination non descrimination or anti discrimination? They just want the same rights Hetros have.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
Antiquity :) Im with you on fighting for love! Because we as people have a right as much as other ppl!
ShikamaruChi225 9 months ago
Dear Bitch burn in hell!!!!
mikeyrobins022585 9 months ago
@mikeyrobins022585 What the crap dude >:( she is really upset over this she is one of the many ppl who's life is goin to be fucked up because of prop 8 passing! Its a beautiful thing what her and supernovadobe have :'''( If ppl are happy together, leave them the fuck alone they arent fuckin with your love life! They are happy with one another, you could just wish to find someone that would make your world brighter, or make you happier then you have ever been in your life..then u would understand
ShikamaruChi225 9 months ago
@mikeyrobins022585 I think they threw away the wrong bit of you at your birth. What kind of christian are you? Its funny how you guys follow that law of leviticus but not the others....oh your not Jewish...well I don't see how you can ignore gods word for gods people on how to live, you shouldn't pick and choose just because the church decided to follow one rule but not the others.You shouldn't be talking to ANYONE for eating 3 day old meat Justify how what you just said is what Jesus teaches
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@mikeyrobins022585It doesnt say anything in the 10 commandments aboout homosexuality though(you'd have thought if it was so wrong it might) which were given to Moses on Mt Saini, just like Levitucus' laws were given to Moses on Mt Sanai you shouldn't covet your neighbors ass, or SLAVE it says, god says slavery is ok it seems. Fucking bullshit is what it is...and you are a moron for not questioning it, and for saying that. The devil will FUCK YOUR ARSE BLOODY HAHAHAHAHAh
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@mikeyrobins022585
leave her alone she is fighting for wats right n everything tht she beleives in she is fighting for me my frenns my family her frens her family her self and evry other gay bi lez people its not right to judge people by their sexuality people should take this advice"i dont care if your gay lez bi if your nice to me ill be nice back"-emenim.but think about it this way what if your mom or dad was gay lez or even bi what would you do what would your oppion be?
scarlectra 7 months ago
YOU GO GIRL!!!
POWER TO YOU!!!!!
jdlc9215 9 months ago
Comment removed
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
Comment removed
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
oh yeah that shit about your grandad and dad,Well I'm allowed to say what I want apparently. I prob wouldn't have put you on there if I had finished reading your second message(whoops xD) but hey. Oh yeah that acceptence of majority rule is one of the problems with democratic society, it does lead to herd mentallity. Just as not liking a bloke cos of where he puts his dick(within reason) is a product of unquestioning obidience towards the herd view.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@illdeletethis a threat to bigotry maybe.As an athiest please ask yourself this question... why does society have this concept that homosexuality is dirty and immoral? The answer has EVERYTHING to do with the church.
It's in Leviticus,either before or after the correct way to sacrifice a bull for whatever irrational transgression against god. The way the church has developed hand in hand with government across the world, especially European monarchies, through history, is why the view exists.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal
for someone with the name "don't get vaginal" you get very vaginal. My how you blew this hole page with your rhetoric.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman hahahah yeah I know, I do revel in the irony of it. The idea of inequality just sets my flow off. You felt the discharge. What did I trash you with, I forgot?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@illdeletethis how the fuck do you have the right as a human being to tell another human being not to do something with their life if it doesn't cause harm to anyone, and doesn't make anyone feel like shit. Especially yourself. Wanker.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@illdeletethis 1 laws are almost always not decided by referendum in democracy.
2 liberalism and reformation were what dragged Monarchistic and Oligarchic societies into democracies, ergo liberalism is part of the bedrock of democracy, not a radical splinter of it.
3 these laws you speak of that defend minorities were put in to give equality to man as your arsehole grandfather and father and also it seems you would not allow such equality.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman prove your opinions are true, prove god to me.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
Comment removed
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman not really that sounds like descrimination to me, and a legitimate courts case, and I have the same sexuality you claim to.And re being happy,I dunno about that. As long as they dont have arseholes telling them they're dirty and immoral they seem pretty happy (gay) and healthy to me. I've known a few. Unlike you who clearly wont inflict yourself upon people.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman well you should be talking about it. Sky daddy would want that.It is a christian duty after all. When you stand before him what are you going to say? Sorry but I couldn't be bothered defending you, or spreading the gospel. The topics are absoulutely related. If you are religious. Infact religion is where the root of homosexual discrimination comes from. It is skydaddys way. Do you think he'd let the gentiles off in the same way he let them off penis mutilation?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman prove sky daddy is real, and I will abide by his laws. Including all the cow and goat stabbing.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman anything to do wiyh the catholic church in Africa saying that condoms do nothing to stop you catching aids. Evil. That was going on for years. And did the church recieve any punishment for such crimes? No no they'll get theirs in hell. But to them they're doing gods work.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal
HAHA what does the evil catholic church have to do with anything!? Those guys are just as much Christians as the DEVIL is. What does it have to do with 3 day meat!? You do realize I'm not JEWISH! you can't bring the Jewish laws to a CHRISTIAN. I'm a follower of christ and he came and fulfilled the laws. maybe if you actually read the new testament and not the old you would know how the faith works. Also if you want evidence for God it's everywhere. Lifes existence is proof.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman No no . Those are gods laws. It is in the bible.Not for man to refute. As was done with the apostolic decree.And I understand it was given to moses leading the Isrealites, tell me then, why does christianity recognise the 10 commandments(which makes no reference to homosexuality, except maybe do not covet thy neighbors ass-open to translation maybe?)-given to Moses at mount Sinai- But not the laws given to Moses at mount Sinai?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman I understand that many Christian groups do not recognise Leviticus...And yet you still take SOME of the laws, especially those regarding sexual conduct directly from here. How can MAN pick and choose GODS law.It is in the bible, is it just Jews? God really doesn't want them to have any fun huh? It says nothing about homosexuality in the 10 commandments as I said. Also christ is god is he not? The father the son (not a catholic yeah but you belive gods word don't you?)
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal well we go by the ten commandments and also with the new Testament. Maybe if you read the new testament you would understand a bit more about it. The LAW was intended for the Israelites not Christians. it was intended to separate Gods nation from everyone else in a way to keep purity in. One of our Christian laws is “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39)
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman So where in the new testament is it written that homosexuality is wrong?The commandments you live by say nothing about homosexuality, if it was wrong it would be in there surely. By the way the time leviticus was written there were no christians so surely that law was delivered to moses with the idea of it being applied to gods people. All gods people not just his favoured Jewish people who he then visits terrible suffering upon throughout the centuries as a reward for being good.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman yeah but do you love your gay neighbors? I can't say that your comments suggest that you do. And aids btw is more prevalent in the straight community nowdays btw.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman How are YOU (personally) sure that what you say is truth is actually true. How do you know?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal Although at times I do come off as mean I really don't mean too I just get mad that people keep the confused in darkness. I really want to help homosexuals that want to be helped.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman, you don't mean to? OK. You are born into a hatefull establishment masquerading as a loving one, though what conclusions were you supposed to draw with old testament mean god suddenly becoming nicey nice Jesus. so if you have an unquestioning nature then yeah ok you dont mean to be a twat. My question was where do you get the idea homosexuality is wrong. It is not in the christian commandments, and the only source I can find cited for it is Leviticus. So if those laws don't apply
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman christians, then i propose that only Jews are forbidden gay love. Also I would doubt that any "confused" homosexual would want YOUR help. You only say it is wrong but you have to tell me where it is said so yet.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman How do you explain in the new revised standared version of the bible, the text Exodus 20 2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21 it says You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. SLAVE!!! God condones SLAVERY. What the fuck? This isn't in some "revised" versions of the bible. Again man picks at the scripture, its either gods word or mans word.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman I have found 2 sources stated in the new testament Corinthians and Romans that cite homosexuality is wrong. HOWEVER this is not gods law.Or anything Jesus said. This is ONE MAN-PAUL talking about how he feels that people should live their lives to worship god. It was during the early attempts to establish one christian church as opposed to sects of christianity. You live based upon this MANS teaching(and people around him then questioned whether he was a legitamate apostle.)
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman And also paul was known to have cited stories about the Jews to show that humanity could be seen as rightious by god, ergo he clearly does see some parallel to the way Jews live and the way christians should live to please god. In my opinion this shows influence from Jewish law being written into christian creed, I feel this lends legitimacy to my opinion that christians should look more to Jewish law than what ytou said that it does not apply.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman BOOOMMM lacocacolaman. I will bugger you with your own bible.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
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DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
shit, the 8 thing got aprroved? shit.. man.. i'm glad i don't live in america.. i'm really sorry man.. thats gotta be really, really hard. i'm not a fan of marriage but i can understand why ppl of all types of ppl, gay, lezbian, bi. straight. and i can openly say. if i'd been aware before hand + been in america + old enough, i wud so of voted no. :'(
shadedsoulhorse 9 months ago
well said. you are so true. people shouldnt deny me or anyone else their natural human rights
videoGAMESgurl 9 months ago
I'm Catholic and I totally agree with every word you said. I'm ashamed with the way my religion acts, it makes me ill. I'm a yaoi fan and I'm so scared to tell my parents because of what they've been brain-washed to believe. I'm even more scared of the fact I'm questioning my sexuality at the moment.
You've given me strength, and for that I'm grateful! <3
xXxStrifeMexXx 9 months ago
I am fighting. Everyone had a right, the right of happiness. Of in this case, they should. It is not right to take that away. The only thing that is being taught in schools about gays is coming from other students, that it is bad and wrong. I am afraid to be in a relationship with another female, I am bi, because of the discrimination that goes through my school. There has been more then a couple of suicides at my school because of this. It should end. No, it has to end. Now.
1Deidaras0Gal1 9 months ago
@1Deidaras0Gal1 chin up, school will be over one day. Then you don't have to be locked in with the wankers. The predjidice eases up but is still something you will have to deal with as an adult, centuries of bigotry will not just disappear. I have found talking to a lot of people with homophobic views that their bigotry is often stemmed from ignorance about the reasons why homosexuality is taboo in society. Many people don't even know why they hate gays. I am pretty sure it's all religious
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@1Deidaras0Gal1 I can't say I've read all texts concerning the "abomination" of homosexuality but in the bible and torah god outlaws homosexuality in leviticus. Read that shit. (not the first few chapters, it is all sacrifice rules) It is actually your best defence next to sense. Western civilisation has grown up around the religious establishment and social attitudes have been driven by the clergy for centuries. But if someone can't prove to you god is real, then what are they basing their
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@1Deidaras0Gal1 attitudes upon? Seriously I am sure religion is the core of it. Also research Gentiles and the Apostolic decree to understand how the modern church can "pick and choose" Gods law. So if they are not religious then ask why the hatred. If they are then say prove it. Realistically there is no way that it will disappear in a generation where gaybashing is cuturally acceptable and promoted by the media, but what can you do but tackle it one mind at a time. That is where thebattle lies
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
just go to massachussetts
192wars 10 months ago
@192wars Or other fagot states like Vermont, Connecticut, New Hampshire or Iowa.
mikeyrobins022585 10 months ago
@mikeyrobins022585 how about the bible thumping states, where literacy rates fall behind those of the developing world.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman Actually our brains don't fully develop until the age of 21-23, depending on the person.
Just letting you know.
^^
iamangelbgood 10 months ago
@Lacocacolaman Personally, I am Pansexual, and I believe God exists. So now let me tell you that you are in the wrong. God teaches love and kindness, something that straights often(not always) fail to show. Because I believe God exists, lets leave religion out of it and have a real convo, shall we?
iamangelbgood 10 months ago
@iamangelbgood
Part 1
well the discussion was about the age 18 does not mean you're fully mentally developed. And I'm curious about where you got your sources to this "develop until the age of 21-23" i know everyone is different the point i was making that 18 is not an age of enlightenment. I'm glad you believe in God but to be proud and boastful of a sin is not a good thing. I'm not saying HELL is your punishment but from what I understand it doesn't look very good for you.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman have you ever eaten meat 3 days past the animal being killed?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal
sadly yes, I don't live in a farm.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman thyen you must remove yourself from the community. It is in Leviticus. I don't see how you are excempt from skydaddys house rules
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@iamangelbgood oh wait he didn't though did he. That was a descision men took without skydaddy when christianity first became truely established. And the people who followed gods laws, the Isrealites. Well their reward fo keeping the faithis genocide through the ages.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@illdeletethis No one's trying to take away the right of straight marriage. Your the ones taking away the right of gay marriage.
I pray God will forgive your soul for being so unjust and not loving, like your bibles say you should be.
iamangelbgood 10 months ago
I cried that was so beautiful!
xXxHellButterflyxXx 10 months ago
Civil Union is fine but Marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and woman. Gay people have always had more rights in the U.S. than most other countries. Look at how Asia treats gays.
christianblackmtlrlz 10 months ago
@christianblackmtlrlz It's not about whether we have more rights than other countries! It's about our rights as EQUAL AMERICANS!
And the whole "religious" thing? Shove it! God is supposed to be a loving, FAIR God! So if he's fair, why the hell can't we love who we love? It's people like you, uncaring, nonunderstanding jerks that piss me off!
iamangelbgood 10 months ago
@iamangelbgood thats the thing though. God was an arsehole in the old testament (which is where he told humanity how to live) but then seems to sort his life out when he realises he's gonna be a daddy. I think the church was po'd cos they decided upon the apostolic decree and threw out many of his laws. Almost every christian today breaks the laws of leviticus one way or another.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal I agree. ^-^
Thanks for your input! I like the way you said that!
iamangelbgood 9 months ago
@iamangelbgood haha cheers. Gotta love the arsehole griefers.
You are a christian though are you not? Does what I said not irk you?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal Hmm... I was raised Christian, but I personally disagree with alot of my old church's views and traditions. I haven't been a member for over 3 years, and I finally just broke off completely about a year ago. So, I believe in alot of Christian stuff, but I'm not really a Christian, more like a mix of all religions and beliefs. (I can't explain it in such small space! >.<)
As for being irked, I have my own problems with God, and I honestly thought that what you said was awesome!
iamangelbgood 9 months ago
@iamangelbgood thats quite interesting. It takes a lot of courage and self determinism to break away from an establishment you have known your whole life. What do your folks say? What pushed you away?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal They don't really know, though they know I don't attend church anymore. I'm 19, so I have freedom in that area, and I am still respectful when they pray or talk about the church.
I walked away because my church is more worried about healthy living than the souls of it's members. I also did not agree with some of the beliefs they support, and I have my own beliefs as well. For instance, I believe that as long as love is honest, it is pure, whether it is same sex or not.
^.^
iamangelbgood 9 months ago
@iamangelbgood can you describe what your beliefs are? I'd love to understand. I have some American relatives in Conneticut who are lesbian believers btw and who are married in the eyes of god.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@christianblackmtlrlz good. Why are you saying it like they're greedy for it? It seems that now they don't have the same rights as hetros. If you do not follow the laws of Leviticus, as skydaddy tells gods children, then I propose you are a bad christian. And I would bet that you don't.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
Very well written letter, but with many mistruths. You think it is your right to change all the laws of the country and the very deffinition of marriage. This is a battle of whether people believe gay marriage should be recognized. People do not and will not ever want to recognize gay marriage. seeking the approval of society will not make you feel better. I do not hate gays. Opposing gay marriage is not hate. Dont play the victim. It is not RIGHTS. too much emotion lacking logic. :)
bobybob10000 10 months ago
@bobybob10000 2 words. Shut. Up.
So mad, I don't know what to say without sounding like a hater...
Change the laws of the country? Are you stupid? The constitution says that we have EQUAL rights, no matter who we are! You are taking our right to marry!
The definition of marriage is not a man marrying a woman! It is two people being united as one in love! Marriage allows two people to be seen as a true couple!
So shut up, and quit acting like your not a hater. Cuz, I've got news for you: YOU ARE
iamangelbgood 10 months ago
@iamangelbgood I have no hate for gays. I have gay friends and a gay uncle. I simply believe that marriage is the sacred uniting of man and woman. Most people all over the world agree with me. Its not about certain people not having the same rights. Im a man and I cant have a baby. EVen if I want to. Only a woman can. I believe (like most people) that marriage is between man and woman and even if in certain cases gay marriage is allowed it isnt valid whether or not a piece of paper says so.
bobybob10000 10 months ago
@bobybob10000 maybe you don't feel the emotion of hate. But you certainly don't believe in equality. And lacking logic? Explain how...please this should be amusing.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal You think I dont believe in equality? Does belief in equality mean one has to conform to your belief system? Prop 8 is people supporting something they believe in. Its a propostion to keep things the way they currently are because that is the right way for them to be. I accept that you disagree. You wont convince me that gay marriage is right, I wont convince you to believe what I believe. Acceptance is understanding differences and accepting them, not using biggot, hateful ect
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 why do you think that gay marriage is wrong?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal I think it is wrong because marriage is the union of a man and woman in love. The whole issue here is people against prop 8 want to change that deffinition to any two humans in love. I think that marriage is a special thing reserved for only a man and a woman. I dont hate gays I just see marriage as that. I just wish people wouldnt call others hateful or biggots ect because they believe differently, I respect that you disagree, respect that everyone against you doesnt hate.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 why does it have to be exclusively between man and woman?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal Well, for me simply because that is the way I believe it is meant to be. Most people in favour of prop 8 (the majority of people in califirnia and people in the world) feel the same, they simply dont think the deffinition of marriage should be changed from what it is because thats the way they feel. theres no hate, or judgement, we simply like the way things are I think it fine if you want to lobby for your beliefs but dont do so by knocking down everyone who believes contrary.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bobybob10000 Why do you believe it is meant to be that way?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bobybob10000 People throughout history have suffered due to that view. In medieval Europe, feudalism was the way it was for hundreds of years. Everyone tied into 1 heirachy with 1 man at the top. People were born into this world and didn't reform anything for centuries because it was felt that it was the way it was meant to be. And of course they suffered for it and had very little in the way of human rights as we know them today.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 please respond. This was a dialouge and I feel with more info I might be able to understand why you feel the way you do.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 cmon bobbybob where are you...I was ready to believe.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal Sorry, I was out there for a bit. I guess my point is tolerance cant be a one way thing. People with different veiws cant expect everyone to agree with their point but they need to tolerate other people's differences. I personally feel that marriage has always been defined as a man and woman and I believe the family is a sacred special thing. A homosexual couple isnt "bad" but I just believe marriage is only meant for a man and woman. some wont agree and i accept that.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 OK but why exclusively is marriage an institution between man and woman?. There has to be a higher rational than "Because thats the way it's always been". Humanity would never have developed if we just kept everything the same for the sake of it.
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal You are absolutly right. My personal belief is that marriage and the family are central in God's plan. I believe Satan is working his hardest to destroy the family unit, this can be seen in divorce, abortion, abuse, homosexuality, ect. The list is endless. For SOme of these little can be done but if given the opportunity to vote on it as in prop 8 I will vote in favour because of this. Not becasue I hate but becasue its what I believe. DOes that make any sense?
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 but god doesn't outlaw homosexuality(for christians apparently) Its not in the commandments(although slavery gets a passing condonance). And Jesus never said it. Infact IF a gay couple wanted to adopt(which i bet you don't agree with-sorry this is a little off topic but I reacon still relavent) and were to provide a happy home wouldn't the institution of a proper marriage provide a decent stable family enviroment for that child?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal Your assumption that I believe this because it is in the bible is incorrect. The ten commandments are not the only laws God has. To put it simply, If the bible was the only way God spoke to man that wouldnt make much sense. The bible can be interpreted 1000s of ways, thats why there are 1000s of religions. As for adoption, I think having homosexual "parents" hugely taints the childs perception of the family and is not good. Again, these are just my personal beliefs.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 what makes you believe in god period if not what is in the scriptures? If you are to tell me god talks to man then I say how could it be proved it is god and not a mental health disorder? What evidence suggests to you that god thinks homosexuality is wrong?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal I believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, There are many versions because of translation errors. I also believe God has a prophet on earth today and there is further scripture beyond the bible. God has always worked through prophets and continues to today. Modern day scripture reveals The essential nature of the marriage of man and woman and the importance of the family.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@bobybob10000 Who is this prophet? And why do you believe he is legitamate? And if it is not the scripture in the bible then what is the scripture you are referring too? Also I have overlooked this by my assumptions, what denomination are you?
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This prophet is Thomas S. Monson. The other scripture I refer to is a book which is a record of God's people on the American continent called The Book of Mormon. Other scripture is also words of the modern day prophets, which give information about modern issues and stuff like that. And as for his legitimacy, I know he is a true prophet, I cant show you that though, the only way you can know is by searching.
bobybob10000 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal I cant handle these 500 letter debates, what we talk about is far too much and is completely incoherent when you have like 50 different discussions going on. it's totally confusing. If your goal was to hide away everyones good comments and flood it with your opinions BRAVO.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman Don't be a cock, you flooded this page way before I did with your self sanctimonious condemnation of your fellow man. All of it just your opinion(because you can't prove god even exists) Don't tell me how to live my life.A tip on how to debate as you said you are stuggling, go through 1 by 1 and discuss the content of each comment. Use reply button. What I have said is perfectly valid and I think you can't logically debate my points. Or if you can't be bothered to then I win hahah
DontGetVaginal 9 months ago
@DontGetVaginal yes you win. Jeeze if only i had the patience to win by annoying the crap out of someone in a tidies way. Also I don't recal ever bringing up the bible I think i used science to talk about how homosexuality is not healthy to individual. Not to mention psychological.
Lacocacolaman 9 months ago
@Lacocacolaman no okay a few people have already made you look like the tit you are already, no need for me to go over it again...I thought you'd like to debate the bible though, seeing as how you were throwing it around in those earlier threads. And it is the root of your oppinions on homosexuality and gay marriage(you feel justified to lay scorn on others based on those oppinions) but hey.
DontGetVaginal