Arlington Miami

[RuninDC]

I was really touched by the Tribute to the Troops gravesite in Miami Beach. Many of the graves marked young men and women, some who were only half of my age. During the Miami Marathon, as I ran past them, I felt spirited and touched by their sacrifice. Thank you for this touching and emotional piece.

[NOMWA]

The moral obligation of patriotic duty requires we question war, especially wars of choice. Alternatives to war need discussed. The numbers of the dead and dying in Iraq by U.S. by silent consensus is over the line.

Healing can happen, our own and others', in the most unexpected circumstances. Taking part in promoting Peace is a most likely and fertile ground for everyone's mending to begin, and that's what DFA is doing.

[chaplainbuford]

When I look at this I am reminded of how much change must be made.

[retix]

Good Bless

[chaplainbuford]

This is one great work of art. I wish that this could be on tour. Our work is makeawishveterans visit our site you will find that others care too.

[apjlaw]

Great job DFAM !!!

[Airforcing]

A sad reminder of what war is all about.

[greenhavenrye]

I think our discussion has gotten somewhat circular, going from the war to the video and back to the war again. I respect your opinions about how you feel about the nature of this video. This is a touchy subject and will always be. I will only say that many, many vets have reacted very positively to this memorial. At some point I would like to send you photos of what some of them have written on these gravestones. Maybe we're not even that far apart?

[XKG80]

Start at the bottom posts and read up. Sorry for all the posts.  Will try to be more concise next time. ;)

[XKG80]

Anybody who seeks transparency in this matter can get it if they put forth the effort. To my knowledge, the public is allowed to visit most military graves. However, splashing images of the fallen at a time of dire loss for fallen soldiers' families goes over the line, IMHO.

[XKG80]

Note that this is a war against terrorism, not just Al-Qaeda. The right views terrorism as a broader world problem.

All of this, if the hundreds of thousands killed in genocide didn't entice your compassion.

Kudos to the Miami cops and firefighters.

Here's the difference in what they did and in what the media do: The Miami authorities went personally. Had the Miami authorities taken snaps of the dead and given it to the AP or Reuters, then yes, it would be disrespectful.

[XKG80]

The right says: I see your Al-Qaeda and raise you every other terrorist organization (and their providers) whose motto is "Death to America" -- many of which received funds from Saddam Hussein.

Putting it simply, the left believes the U.S. should put all her resources into combating Al-Qaeda. The right agrees but adds scores of other terrorist groups and enablers to the list. This is obviously controversial.

[XKG80]

What connection did Germany have in the planning and execution of Pearl Harbor? What attack did they make against America prior to America's declaration of war?

To your point, I would argue that Saddam Hussein gave obscene amounts of money to terrorist groups during his rule.

This exposes a basic disagreement between left and right on terrorism. The left seems to focus solely on Al-Qaeda. It's noble, but it comes up short. Its scope is too narrow.

[greenhavenrye]

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and that Japan was allied with Germany. President Bush himself said there was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam. As far as the fallen coming home; no one is arguing that it is distasteful to show the images of flag-draped caskets coming home. Are you aware that Miami police and firemen went to the airport to give returning fallen troops an honor guard. They did this on their own time and without anyone's request. Are they disrespecting the troops too?

[XKG80]

So progressives would not have declared war on Germany in 1941.

It is brazenly without compassion that certain media outlets proliferate images of fallen soldiers without the proper consent of fallen soldiers' families.

It's as if you don't even care what the families think or feel in their time of loss. Is that progressive? It just seems callous and disrespectful to me, especially when it is done for political gain.

[greenhavenrye]

Progressive is about not fighting pre-emptive wars against enemies that never attacked you in the first place, but rather using resources intelligently to go after those who have done our nation harm. And being progressive is about defending our way of life, but not at the expense of our civil liberties.

[greenhavenrye]

Progressive is the antonym of regressive. A healthy and sustainable democracy depends on progressive change. For instance, when photos of our fallen soldiers returning home from Iraq in flag-draped caskets are not permitted, this is a regressive policy because we must have transparency in our reporting of events that affect all Americans. This is why DFA feels it necessary to put on this display.

[XKG80]

That's a tough sell, but I hear you.

When DFA says they want to "reclaim the White House" in 2008, it will lead many people to believe that the organization's mission is to knock out the incumbent party.

Educate us: What does "progressive change" entail?

[greenhavenrye]

Final point about Democracy for America: there is no so-called "loyalty oath" required to join DFA as with other organizations that are party affiliated. DFA consists of like-minded Democrats, Republicans, and Independents who are fed-up with business-as-usual and are ready to affect progressive change.

[greenhavenrye]

The following is taken directly from Democracy for America Miami's home page:

Democracy for America Miami-Dade is a collective of grassroots activists that supports progressive candidates, causes and clubs. DFAM unites progressives, builds support for our causes in the established parties, and takes action for change.(note the words "established parties")

[greenhavenrye]

Democracy for America is not a political group and is not incorporated as such. It was started by Howard Dean and is now run by his brother Jim. There are over eight hundred groups throughout the country. These groups are not affiliated with any particular party. The mission of DFA is to affect progressive change, regardless of party.

[XKG80]

Not attacking them. Just saying they're a political group.

[greenhavenrye]

I am referring specifically to your "Really, I meant the video", comment that you posted below.

[greenhavenrye]

Now you're back to attacking one of the groups who promoted this event when your last comment was that the documentary was biased. Let's try to stick with one point. I've shown you that Democracy for America took special care to make this memorial meaningful and tasteful. The documentary is nothing but people's reactions.

[XKG80]

I never thought of Democracy for America as a non-political group.

After all, that organization was founded by Howard Dean, who displayed shocking apathy toward the capture of Saddam Hussein and said the Iraq War was unwinnable.

First sentence on their website is: "The fight has begun." Second sentence: "...to reclaim the White House in 2008."

Not political though. Right.

[XKG80]

I'm not big on mission statements either. Sometimes they lie, and the people in charge fail to meet their objectives.

I'm sure you can think of at least one example of where a stated mission fails to live up to its original spirit.

Ahem.

I see this as a protest in spite of the noble mission statement.

[SamFeldman1]

And that is ok. You've come to that conclusion on your own just like the people walking by and interviewed on the video expressed emotions of wasted deaths. There is nothing at the memorial that says anything negative about the war, or the Bush regime. Maybe people see reality out there...

[XKG80]

Really, I meant the video.

[greenhavenrye]

"The purpose of this memorial is to hopefully cause people to reflect on the horrible human costs of this war. Therefore, we ask that all those who wish to attend, to honor the fallen with the dignity and respect they deserve." (directly taken from the event posting). main objective a protest???

[greenhavenrye]

Cindy Sheehan was in Miami for a book-signing two blocks away at Miami-Dade College (check it out). Yes, she did come by to pay her respects to her son who died in Iraq. There was a protest. It was a few blocks away from the memorial due to the request of the memorial organizers (you can check that out too).

[XKG80]

Its main objective is clearly one of protest. Cindy Sheehan? Come on.

[greenhavenrye]

Sorry for the repeated response. We also had UN and IAEA inspectors on the ground in Iraq, combing for WMD, that is until they were told to leave as the war was imminent. I wish we could have waited for them to complete their job. Now we have this to live with and I feel that our country is a lot less safe today because of it.

[greenhavenrye]

I also see that you raise some rational points. But I would say that in their rush to war, the Bush administration did not do due diligence in sifting thru the intelligence and the Downing Street Memos thoroughly bear this out.

[greenhavenrye]

I also think that you raise some rational points. I would just say that in their rush to war, the Bush administration did not heed the warnings about there being no WMD and the Downing Street memos thoroughly support this.

[XKG80]

I see those points, and you've done a good job framing the argument.

So the argument isn't that Iraq never had WMDs. Rather, the argument is that Iraq didn't have WMDs on March 18, 2003. Got it.

Given Saddam's long track record of using WMDs on civilians, was it really so unreasonable for the U.S. (and others) to believe that Saddam either had or would again acquire WMDs?

[greenhavenrye]

General Peter Pace has just said that our military is stretched too thin to fight a war on a third front. Sadly,Iraq is and will be seen as an unprecedented military blunder as part of the war on terror.

[XKG80]

I knew it was only a matter of time before the insults would begin.

Are you intelligent enough to have a serious and productive dialogue without folding your arguments and resorting to name-calling?

I invite you to tumble with any of the points I made below.

[CamposRobert]

George W. Bush himself admitted in 2005 that there were NO WMDs in Iraq at the time of the invasion.

[CamposRobert]

FINANCIAL TIMES April 2005

"The US team investigating whether Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction has finished its 18-month search without finding any such weapons, underscoring the inaccuracy of the intelligence that triggered the US-led invasion of Iraq."

[CamposRobert]

Fin Times Article continues:

That report prompted President George W. Bush to admit that much of the US intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq was "wrong".

[CamposRobert]

Sorry for all comments (500 char limit). If you search on the net, you'll find 1000s of articles confirming that there were no WMDs in Iraq.

[CamposRobert]

Check out a series of reports in 2001 about how the Bush Admin tried to say that Iraq was buying aluminum tubes to make WMDs, even though every Nuclear Energy analyst in the US and Europe said this was not true.

[SamFeldman1]

Since you express a desire for a productive dialogue, I apologize. I ask that you please don't assign your assumptions to my motivations. We work very hard at not making it a protest. We don't allow protest paraphernalia or signs indicating anything other than it is a memorial to fallen soldiers and for supporting the troops.

That 99% of the people thank us and make the anti-war assumption is directly related to visualizing a part of the human cost of a war that they question.

[XKG80]

I think the video is more about political exploitation than "simply griev(ing) their loss." Like I said, I doubt most military families would consent to this, but they did it anyway. Free country, yes. Tasteful, perhaps not.

Abu Ghraib was brought up to address the political message of the video which included a theme of the soldiers dying for no reason. (Around 1.50 in the video.)

[SamFeldman1]

This memorial is all about the soldiers. You take what political message you want out of it.

Soldiers are dying for a reason, cheap partisan lies. You take this as an esoteric political argument when, in fact, more than three thousand, one hundred fifty soldies are dead so you could play your stupid debating game.

It seems to me that your're a good Republican Party sheep.

[greenhavenrye]

What I don't get about XKG80's comment is that it has nothing to do with the video. The video to me, and 99% of those who view it,is about people's reactions to the human costs of war. There are people in this video who are personally connected with family, friends, and fellow soldiers who have fallen in Iraq and have come to this moving memorial to simply grieve their loss. There are other people who are moved to speak their feelings too. Who's bringing up Abu Ghraib?

[XKG80]

And God only knows how many young girls Saddam's henchmen raped. It's just awful. Abu Ghraib? Sure. Here's the difference: We don't celebrate it, and we actually punish our own for it.

I don't understand the "No WMDs" argument. No WMDs? What, ever? I guess the Israelis and Kurds wore gas masks for fun.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of fallen soldiers' families do not appreciate this. Think I'm wrong? Take a survey. You'll lose.

[XKG80]

And God only knows how many young girls Saddam's henchmen raped. It's just awful. Abu Ghraib? Sure. Here's the difference: We don't celebrate it, and we actually punish our own for it.

I don't understand the "No WMDs" argument. No WMDs? What, ever? I guess the Israelis and Kurds wore gas masks for fun.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of fallen soldiers' families do not appreciate this. Think I'm wrong? Take a survey. You'll lose.

[XKG80]

"Dying for no reason"? That's a stretch.

Five countries attacked by Saddam Hussein in the 20 years leading up to invasion. Millions of dollars given to terrorist groups. Safe haven granted to some. A long track record of chemical weapons abuse with hundreds of thousands killed. Human rights, freedom of anything, all a joke there.

[DRaGON188]

God bless the U.S.A Thank You very much guys for giving all of us the right to speak our mind and to have the freedom that other people doesnt Thank You very much!!! God Bless You and im very sorry for the families that lost their loved ones we love you

[LetsThink]

And... the number has grown. The costs are piling up each day the Congress fails to act. So sad.

Thank you to our beautiful men and women, to their families left behind. It's the very least I can say.

Kristi

[hodaka2]

The Veterans For Peace military veterans also served to protect their own rights and freedom to speak and their right to continue to fight for honesty and truth in our country. Silence is betrayal! Well done VFP! You have taken off your uniforms but you courageously continue to serve our country.

[greenhavenrye]

"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Ben Franklin

[USMCSemperFi1775]

You 'people' are pathetic.

[CamposRobert]

Can you explain what you mean?

[accord32]

You pathetic SOB's think you're doing the troops a favor with these moronic protests? The troops HATE pussies like you, they despise you in every single way.

[CamposRobert]

This memorial is supported by soldiers and their families. I'm not sure who you are referring to.

[accord32]

Bullshit. You walk into any military town and try something like this and you'll get your ass kicked.

[greenhavenrye]

What is truly 'pathetic' is our kids dying for no clear reason and a failed policy. Do you not remember that Iraq was first about WMD's and then it morphed into Osama planned 9/11 with Saddam, before they finally settled on spreading 'democracy' to the Iraqis? Sixteen governmental agencies reported recently as part of a National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq that we Americans are now less safe thanks to what we are doing in Iraq than before we got entangled there.

[USMCSemperFi1775]

Freedom has a flavor that the protected will NEVER know. You are the protected. You're nothing more than a sheep in a dangerous world.

[SamFeldman1]

Pssst. It's a group that includes veterans dating back to Korea and Vietnam tunnel rats who set up the memorial. All your fancy words doesn't erase the fact that vets are leading this anti-war movement.

See you at the gates of the school of the Americas this weekend. Check it out...

[greenhavenrye]

Last weekend, six members of the 101st Airborne just back from Iraq came to an identical event on South Beach. They were proud and pleased to have the opportunity to write the names of their fallen comrades on a blank monument. For them it was an emotional but cathartic way to express their feelings. Let's try to have a frank discussion based on facts.

[cody666uk]

The real cost of the war which none of these young men and women caused . Shame on the politicians of this world . The memory of the brave means more than you ever will . Each one of these will be remembered for far longer than you Mr Bush .

[CharlesChamberlain]

This is remarkable. Watching this brought me to tears and made me angry at the same time. This is a powerful motivator for each and everyone of us to do everything we possibly can between now and Election Day to take back control of congress.

Thank you DFA Miami for driving home the human cost of this war and making a political statement that bashes people over the head without saying a single word.

You all are an inspiration to everyone.

[CharlesChamberlain]

This is remarkable. Watching this brought me to tears and made me angry at the same time. This is a powerful motivator for each and everyone of us to do everything we possibly can between now and Election Day to take back control of congress.

Thank you DFA Miami for driving home the human cost of this war and making a political statement that bashes people over the head without saying a single word.

You all are an inspiration to everyone.

[larryjthorson]

I was there, and the video is even better than being there.

[maricelarios]

Nice work. . . In less than 10 min. You managed to show us what the NEWS can't/won't.

Thank you.

[timgorski]

Robert and Donna, you have delivered a very intense and important piece.

thank you.

[LWPTV]

The video speaks for itself and even seeing this on video isn't the same as being there in front of 2,500 headstones over about 5 acres. Very moving. A beautiful tribute to the real heroes of today! God bless their souls. My God bless the rest of us as well.

[SamFeldman1]

Robert Campos captures the heart and soul of people's true feelings, the real sorrow and regret of needless wasted lives.

[greenhavenrye]

This is a beautiful and moving tribute that speaks volumes about the incredible waste of young lives this war has caused. It is all so painfully sad.