The Legend of Lizzie Borden (1975 TV Movie) 9/10

[ThePurrmeow]

It is proven that when a young child is sexually abused they loose their sense of right and wrong. Almost have no conscience. Lizzie's mother passed away when she was two. Lizzie and her father were always said to have had an unusual relationship.....just sayin.

[mariof1b43d]

I don't like the part when she killed her dad but I don't give a fuck about that evil stepmother

[slimmy38]

@mariof1b43d Yeah me too, I never understood why she killed him. But I found out later he molested her quite a bit, they hinted at it in the movie, and he was extremely cheap, and made them eat cold leftovers, and old food because he did not want to waste anything..and he let that old bag of a step mother do what ever she wanted, He killed her birds. I guess all of that build up over time...I am only guessing and trying to make sense out of it too..lol

[emlodik]

@slimmy38 The molestation story is a load of bullshit. This movie explains why Lizzie did it quite well. Her father was a psychologically abusive skinflint and her stepmother was his number one kissass. Lizzie had a deep rooted anger towards them, plus she was a spoiled entitled brat, probably why she never got married, couple together with her father not financing a social debut party for her and sister. That, coupled with limited options women had back then, resulted in the Borden tragedy.

[slimmy38]

@emlodik I don't know what all the anger is about..I mean really..words like "Load of Bullshit" are really not necessary..its just a comment and an observation I made, it doesn't mean anything. If we all have to get bent out of shape and get nasty over different observations and oppinions then maybe we don't need to be on these kinds of sites. Whether she did it or not will not make or break my sleep.

[frantic1971]

@slimmy38 There were obviously some strange goings-on in the Borden household, to lead to such a horrific event. That creepy scene where Lizzie kisses her father on the lips, and then later appears naked in front of him (notice how there is a very brief shot of a smile on Mr. Borden's face) immediately before hacking him to death, the movie seems to be implying an incestuous relationship.

[mari66101]

Elizabeth was nearly 40 when she made this movie,and she still looked as lovely as she was in "Bewitched"....such a great actress,she proved it here that she could play any role.

[NFitalianGuy]

When Lizzie was at the top of the stairs laughing she laughed just the way Serena did.. LOL

[poosaypirate]

INNOCENT PEOPLE GET EXECUTED IN USA AS WELL

YOUR POINT !??????????????????!?

in reality there is not enough evidence to convict anyone of these murders

[buzzbaybear]

@poosaypirate... that just goes to show you that the courts make mistakes - often. they were wrong about Lizzie too. But I agree with one thing- better to let a guilty person go free than to hang an innocent one.

[poosaypirate]

@buzzbaybear well what can you learn from that , you REALLY dont know she wasw guilty, thus, you cannot  make that acusation THATS THE POINT

[XByTheShoreX]

They also said the fathers jacket was balled up under his head. Something he never would do. They think the murderer wore it, and placed it under his head to make it look like it all came from his dead body.

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX STRANGe and interesting b ut im left wondering what that could indicate- whats your theory?

some one triedto dress like him to break into theh ouse ?

[poosaypirate]

why was there not one single mark on the sofa the father was found dead on as well

not one ax mark cut or snare in the delicate satin

[poosaypirate]

and finially the question is, how does one successfully clean head to toe up after a double homicide with an ax in anywhere from ten minutes to one hour..

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX maybe not. . thats the thing, the forensics then were not what they are now.

dont forget , the maid after the case quit and moved immediately to Montana- now that c COULD indicate some guilt or wrong doing , or simply the will to get away from such a family/situation.

there are too many suspects here.

and lizzy still only had minutes to clean up and face the public after these murders, nothing was found on her body . that includes fingernails and hair. they didnt have hair dryer

[poosaypirate]

@poosaypirate and regarding your comment about the blood the same goes for the ALLEGED HATCHET - and forensics.

not to mention the one they did found had the handle broken off it really makes no sense that this should have been found as it was and again this was apparently completely dry when found , otherwise that would have came up in court as evidence

[XByTheShoreX]

@poosaypirate Doesn't it seem funny to have her wash the windows, on such a hot day especially? How often could that have been done? Of all days. I wonder if Mrs. Borden really told the maid to do it, or did Lizzie say Mrs. Borden wants you to wash windows? Uncle's in town, maid washing window, sister in Fairhaven, father out, claims mother had a note. Wow! How convenient. (I suppose Lizzie made up the mothers' note) At least they found no trace of it, or nobody to admit delivering it.

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX if you keep watching and listening, for the theory that the maid did it, it is always noted that she . and most of the family , accept Lizzie to a lesser degree had suffered of food poisoning the night before ( autopsy did NOT indicate any poison in the stomach ( referring to Lizzies attempt to purchase prussic acid prior days ) so the mother and father INSIST that the maid cleans the windows on a ( record breaking) hot day in mass,after suffering food poisoning, It could add up

[poosaypirate]

@poosaypirate but the other problem is she had been seen on the street talking to the neighboring houses maid

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX dont forget, Lizzie BURNT a blue dress - IN FRONT OF HER SISTER AND NEIGHBOR ( indicating probably no blood on it . means = to dispose of things she burnt things . remember we in the modern age use gas or electric stoves, not wood ovens of the past and certainly their methods of trash disposal were not like today where we have paid sanitation department. they put their slops in their garden

do you KNOW for fact sister was actually way? proof? where was john morse thatday

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX it seems very much who ever and how ever these murders were carried out that there was definitely a co-conspiracy going on here - IF lizzie was involved i dont believe she actually committed them because the time factor. far too short to clean up in a Victorian age again dont forget her hair would PROBABLY have been splattered with blood as well if she had committed these murders if so it would take time to wash dry and style which she had virtually minutes to do- not possible

[buzzbaybear]

@poosaypirate What is this need to find another perpetrator? Forensics determined that Abby died around 9AM and Andrew died shortly before noon. Lizzie and Abby are alone inside, the maid is outside and John Morse is visiting relatives, so if Lizzie is not the murderer then it has to be some phantom killer skulking about the Borden house for almost 3 hours awaiting Andrews return. Lizzie took all the time she needed to clean up -no more-no less. Remember she is the one who called the alarm.

[poosaypirate]

@buzzbaybear whats the need to continually persecute innocent people

she was exonerated and i have provided a list of other potential suspects.

you cannot substanciate your claim any more than the courts could at that time

[buzzbaybear]

@poosaypirate - The illigitimate brother is fiction invented by one Arnold Brown for his fictional tome. Made him a bit of dough though because fools and their money are soon parted. Evidently, you too, like the portly old men of the jury, are unable to believe that a well bred young lady of means capable of committing such a heinous crime (how Victorian of you) Lizzie was acquitted because she had good lawyers ! But her honor was never restored (that's what exonerate means by the way)

[poosaypirate]

@buzzbaybear I THINK ITS VICTORIAN OF YOU TO ACCUSE SOME ONE OF A CRIME FOR WHICH YOU HAVE NO PROOF; THIS IS WHY SHE WAS ACQUITTED- EVEN IN THE VICTORIAN ERA THEY HAD DEMOCRACY

UNLIKE YOU- PURITAN =

GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT

[buzzbaybear]

@poosaypirate mmmmm and what do you think of Klaus Von Bulow, O. J. Simpson and a few of the more recent individuals who got away with murder?

[poosaypirate]

@buzzbaybear besides that the illegitimate brother confessed to it years later

[XByTheShoreX]

@poosaypirate I read.. IDK what's true and what isn't, but... That Lizzie paid for the maid to go back to Ireland where she's from. Lizzie called out when she was cleaned up perhaps. It's still fascinating to this day, but guess we'll never know. Must have been something back then. They ostracized her for the rest of her life. If she didn't do it, that would have suxed.

[poosaypirate]

@XByTheShoreX i heard the maid went to Montana directly after the whole incident and got married.

this could be important

[XByTheShoreX]

@poosaypirate It seems funny the maid didn't hear anything. Huh? Hmmm! I was thinking "look out" But IDK. She's outside, Lizzie can see the backyard, well, according to her 'barn story' (cough)... :) And no one saw/heard a damn thang. :/ Well, whoever did it, got away with it.

[spartacus3ful]

Yikes, Lizzie could never have gotten away with this today, what with all the advancements in forensic evidence. A single drop of water containing blood would be enough to put her away.

[lostindiancamp]

@spartacus3ful

I got two names for you. O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony. Two killers who got away with it.

[spartacus3ful]

@lostindiancamp

Very true, though the Simpson jury was packed with black racists, and I think I heard somewhere about most of the Anthony jurors being high school dropouts? With regard to Lizzie, she conveniently hid behind her skirts, as this was a time when people could not accept the fact that a woman could commit such a heinous crime. The 1890s saw the rise of the early feminist movement that would help lead to both Prohibition and the right to vote for women. Lizzie rode on this wave.

[TheBookWorm1718]

@spartacus3ful What I can't figure out is HOW people could expect back then that women were incapable of heinous acts, especially given that history is full of them, they used to be plenty more barbaric than most today.

[spartacus3ful]

@TheBookWorm1718

Again, quite true, but Lizzie fit a different kind of image: a well bred New England woman who taught Sunday school, at least publicly submitted to her father, and came off to others as being naive and even somewhat childlike.

[poosaypirate]

@spartacus3ful actually in a court of law we have innocent until proven guilty. there was no evidence to prove she committed the crime thus, she was exonerated. there are , and were, many other suspects who could have potentially committed that crime from their house guest the night before ( Morse) , the maid, the other sister ( can you prove she was really away that day?) or the illegitimate son, who wrote a letter of confession to the murders years later, and his death is another topic, or

[poosaypirate]

@poosaypirate various business colleagues who were pissed at the Father Borden- see pigeons scene

[spartacus3ful]

@poosaypirate

What eludes me is the method of murder. Why something as gruesome as a hatchet? You can rule out the business colleagues, as they would have no reason to murder Abby. Unless she was insane, the timid Emma was even less of a candidate than Lizzie. Morse would have a better reason if he stood to inherit something (probably not, as he was an ex-brother in law), which really leaves the illegitimate son, who probably had been disinherited or unacknowledged by Andrew.

[poosaypirate]

@spartacus3ful illegeitmate son wrote a letter of confession, and was later hanged and a bottle of poison was found at his feet- VERY mysterious to say the least.

Morse was not just visiting for social reasons there was something to do with business and inheritance regarding his visit - cant remember what exactly but it is so

there were other buisness colleagues including some Portuguese workes Father owed money too, and earlier that day or the day before they came to collect but he didnt have

[wickedodd12345]

creepy