Church Law Group on Gay Marriage

[uliseshernandezl]

I cannot believe I am watching this dude just talk and talk and talk. LOL let us love who we love not who your book wants us to love. My cousing also has an imaginary friend but he doesn't do what his friend tells him to. so.......

[Andrew0089]

THATS JUST IT!! your making marriage a "religious belief" and not a "lawful right/ civil right"

[hipstermi]

I disagree with the stance of this guy about gay marriage...

but I give KUDOS for his professionalism on what to do.

I look at it this way- churches SHOULD have the right to not marry. This is why the STATE should.

Gay marriage is going to fall under other reasons churches dont marry (Rabbi can say no to a Christian/Jew union, Catholics can say no to a pro life politician) Gay marriage should be no different.

So WHY are church rights being used as a "reason" against gay marriage?

[Ghostbead]

If you think you can wear us down, you are dreaming.

[Andrew0089]

you horrible horrible man saying those hateful things!

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

Andrew0089 what hateful things is this and I quote your words "horrible horrible man" saying. I'd say he's a perfect gentleman and he has a right to say what he wants to say. Nothing horrible about him or what he is saying. He's very kind and loving in his presentation..

[Andrew0089]

ya i mean he seems nice and is entitled to his opinion, but is repressing someones rights, the good citizen thing to do? marriage is defined by state law and law may not be mixed with religion. I feel it is every persons right to live there life the way they want to. Not be told they are not entitled to there partner husband or wife because of some book! I think this group has it all wrong when it comes to the real world and should re think through there opinion.

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

Don't you think Mr. Middlebrooke should have a right to his belief's even if those belief's don't agree with somebody else's. What about his right's? Why should his "rights" be repressed? If it's all about "rights" why is it that just a certain group be allowed "their rights" and nobody else can have "rights"? Think about it.

[Andrew0089]

yes he should have rights but is it right to use his "rights" to repress another group of people? i mean if everyone just didnt care about other peoples life's and went on with there happy way, the world would be better. now im not sayin dont love others but like if a gay couple gets married its not gonna cause some super huge catastrophe in anyones life! let others do as they please and dont repress or discriminate others. it will make the world a better place.

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

You said, "if everyone just didn't care about other peoples lives and went on their happy way the world would be better (a better place)". If this were heaven where there was no sin that would be do-able but we're not in heaven. Is it discrimination to say murder is wrong, adultery is wrong, pedophilia is wrong, stealing is wrong and gay marriage is wrong. Can you imagine what this world would be like if everybody turned a blind eye to the bad things going on around us?

It's bad enough now.

[hipstermi]

@Andrew0089

"ya i mean he seems nice and is entitled to his opinion, but is repressing someones rights, the good citizen thing to do?"

I am a gay marriage advocate but I saw this video differently. The guy told churches what to do if they didnt want to marry gays. Lets say gay marriage was made federally legal today. Churches would STILL retain the right to say no.

If EVERY church agreed with this...gays can STILL go to a JP, courthouse, etc and be legally married.

[Ray77063]

That church could have simply chosen to replace the photomontage with scriptures about hope. Instead, they chose to break their contract to perform the funeral, delay the burial of the deceased, and embarrass the family. Not very Christian in my book!

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

"If they had simply chosen to replace the photo montage with Scripture about hope" (hope in what) it still would have caused an uproar delaying the funeral don't you think? All they had to do in preparing for the funeral was pick up the phone and ask the Pastor if they could hold a gay service at his church. If not, find one that would.This situation could have been averted had the family of the deceased done what others do, checked before hand and not assumed.That's as simple as it get's.

[Ray77063]

Hope in what? Hope that Jesus saves from the sting of death. The man never said that the montage reflected an active sexual lifestyle, only a gay life. Most churches accept gays as members, now that we know more about it. Did you notice that the man never establishes a connection between being gay and gay marriage? Perhaps there was a picture of the deceased gay wedding. He should have mentioned that. He appears to be a bigot.

[Jesseontheweb]

Why does Jimmy Swaggart allow his Grandson Gabriel to play contemporary "christian" music at his church after all those years he spent preaching against it?

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

Wow, you listen to Gabriel. That's awesome. Keep on listening Jesse. I really enjoy the Swaggart family and staff. They have a wonderful way of letting people know that God loves them just the way they are but He loves them too much to leave them that way.

[Jesseontheweb]

No. - Gabriel Swaggart is of the devil. I just wonder why his Grandfather allows him to play contemporary "christian" music in his church even though Jimmy knows its evil.

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

Again Wow. Gabriel is of the devil? Have you met him? Talked to him? Asked him if he is of the devil and if it's true that his grandfather spoke out against contemporary "Christian" music and if so how come he's playing it "in church"? I have a feeling if you wrote to him and asked this him this question he would gladly answer you.

[Jesseontheweb]

Yes, I wrote Jimmy Swaggart. - The people who screen his email refused to forward my emails to him.

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

I wonder why they didn't send it through? They get email's all the time and answer them on certain websites and encourage them. Did you use profanity or was your question presented in a rude manner? I had a question that I needed an answer to and I received a letter by mail from Brother Swaggart answering my question. This was before I got a computer. I never forgot the kindness and love that was extended in that letter to a dilemma I had regarding my faith. Try again Jesse.

[Jesseontheweb]

I was not rude, nor did I use profanity. I asked the question just as I posted it here. - They simply don't want to address the subject of CCM because they are afraid Jimmy might start preaching against it again!

[biggtk]

Gay marriage doesn't stop those who believe that marriage is b/w a man and a woman, from marrying someone of the opposite sex; therefore preserving and having the right to practice their beliefs. Gay marriage simply allows other people to follow their definition of marriage for their life and practice what 'they' believe. So all in all, this video is irrelevant to the gay marriage debate of legality.

[ABloodBoughtBeliever]

If it were that simple we wouldn't faced with law suits because we don't agree with two men and two women marrying. If it were really that simple, the gay couple would go to Pastor's that see no problem marrying them. There are gay/lesbian churches and they are free to attend them as a gay couple. Why pick churches who don't agree? The problem isn't with the Pastor who wants to believe marriage is between a man and woman!

[urbanh196398105]

exactly - the goal of homosexual activists is not "freedom" for homosexuals - they already have that. Their goal is to intimidate and marginalize as much as possible through law or whatever means, anybody who does not affirm homosexuality as something positive. in effect, THEY are the ones trying to force their idea of morality on others.

[CulturedCurmudgeon]

Seems like he's just proposing to keep the current one man married to one woman laws we have already - the same position Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama had when they were running for President.

[Andrew0089]

there never were any laws thats why there is open space to allow gay marriges without having a law saying it is allowed.

[maitriparamita]

NO laws have been proposed to require churches to marry inter-racial, inter-faith or same-sex couples. The rights of churches to discriminate against women on biblical grounds have been protected. Their right to refuse to marry inter-racial couples has also been protected for churches that oppose 'miscegenation' on biblical grounds. NO gay couples are demanding the right to get married in homophobic churches - because there are already many liberal churches that will accept them.

[astrarejection]

If churches were not the venues for applying a legal contract, would that not solve the problem? Then church weddings would be a religious event and not governed by law.

[neenerpuss]

Lets get this straight...LOL Gays are not asking for a church wedding...We are asking for a CIVIL MARRIAGE. Marriage is a legal black and white contract between 2 people. The church should NOT be dictating who can sign a LEGAL CONTRACT! If the church treats us with respect we will in turn treat them with respect. I do not want to be married some place I am not welcome. Its my day..why would I inflict that grief on my spouse and guests?

MARRIAGE EQUALITY NOW!

[93openmind]

Obviously not from Texas. There was a church here that got in hot water for not wanting to perform funeral services for a man that led a gay life style. Not wanting to promote a gay lifestyle in their church was their right, but the gay activists didn't think so. Church needs to be able to practice beliefs without being sued.

[hipstermi]

@93openmind

"Obviously not from Texas. There was a church here that got in hot water for not wanting to perform funeral services for a man that led a gay life style"

Can you cite the case or where we can find this? (News story, church name, etc) I would like to read about it myself.

But... "getting in hot water" is not the same as a legal requirement, so I find your story a little suspect.

[nonprofitchick]

What Mr. Middlebrook is advocating is that churches not be forced to deny their deeply held religious beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman. His argument is larger in scope than just the marriage issue. If churches are forced to deny their holy text on this issue, it opens the door for additional governmental intrusion on religion. All religions. And THAT is unconstitutional.

[fredpopper1]

Very good information, please stop the gay marriage. it just for ins. benefits. God will judge you and you will have to answer to him. but as Christians we must educate right from wrong.

[Zelticon]

Lol.

[Zelticon]

Didn't know the church needed video tutorials for how to discriminate properly. They've been doing fine for the past ...two thousand years? No that wouldn't be fair, let's say thousand. We'll start the count at the Crusades. You've just replaced the sword with the pen.

[hipstermi]

@Zelticon

"Didn't know the church needed video tutorials for how to discriminate properly"

Truth to tell...I can handle a church having the right to say no to a marriage. But...a gay couple that gets turned down by Church A can always try Church B which may or may not work. BUT...a state wedding (judge, JP, etc) should be open for ALL.

Let the invisible sky genie crowd have the right to say no. THIS guy is not so bad...at least by laws let people know where the church stands.

[narlajo]

Very informative, and helpful for church who are trying to maintain the proper balance between God's law and man's law.

[nonprofitchick]

Great information. Very timely!

[TheJazzmanrr]

Just as I have the freedom to decide if a particular church is right for me, each church should have the right to decide its own rules on who can be a member or participate in its activities. This is an important issue and I am not sure my church has thought about it. Thanks for the info!!

[2005greekgirl]

Wow! What valuable information. Finally a place that our church can go to for help.

[salfredo3]

This is about church rights. A church must stand stand by its beliefs and principles and enforce its code of conduct. If a church does not believe in homosexuality and gay marriage then it should document its religious beliefs and govern itself accordingly. The Church Law Group is providing important information to pastors and church members on the subject of gay marraige.

[Brindley03]

Why is the perspective always "Gay rights"? Why is the discussion not also about "Church rights"?

A church has the right to clearly establish its religious tenets of faith--including its view on homosexuality. Religious liberty is one of the founding principles upon which our country was formed; yet all of a sudden it appears as though a church's rights are being attacked by a vocal minority who believes that their rights necessarily trump all others...

[mrsbake3]

The Church Law Group is defending the rights of the Church. They do not comment on what rights the state's are granting individuals. We SHOULD be able to believe and defend what we believe in. This is done in a positive light in this video. The Church Law Group is assisting churches prepare themselves, legally, for the future, not telling them how or what to believe. I appreciate the way this video was presented.

[TheDean1023]

Thanks for getting this information out before it is too late and churches are no longer a place to hear the true

Word of God but become overtaken by corruption through what has become one of the biggest "rights" movements in my generation.

[txhunthog]

Well done. It's nice to see someone is looking out for the churches' beliefs regarding this issue.

[2010THM]

Christians are commanded to love and not judge one another and I believe they should not, and most do not, support anyone who hates or persecutes someone because of their sexuatlity. However, They should not be manipulated by the media or special interest groups to sanctify something completely contrary to their beliefs just to satisfy the Zeitgeist. Seems that this is a "Church Rights", not "Civil Rights" issue. I appreciate this guys showing churches how to protect their rights.

[chadsummers01]

We are to judge, stop being foolish. The fact remains those who participate in homosexual acts are damned to an eternal hell. No judging in that fact. We judge all the time, we judge criminals, dress, what we see, what we watch, we are not to judge other believers. Homosexuals are NOT believers.

[Nora4241]

Very good information.

[jamesehv]

so glad someone is talking about this. really helpful stuff - rock on dude!

[corvette09able]

Thank you for this informative message.

[wendid16]

This is very well done. The Church Law Group seems to really know its stuff. I appreciate you talking about this issue and showing churches - in a practical sense - how to protect their adopted religious beliefs.

[neenerpuss]

The United States Bill of Rights expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion.

The church is already protected. But if they want to write all the other stuff to feel safe from the scary gay people. Okay...as long as we are treated EQUALLY under the law.

MARRIAGE EQUALITY NOW!

[jehodges4]

Awesome content! Love how this is focused on the practicality of the issue rather than the emotional side of it. People have a right to their beliefs, and those beliefs sometimes have to be protected. It's not about forcing those beliefs on others.

Live and let live people...

[dh35723]

great video, very beneficial and useful information

[dh35723]

I think this video is very well done and beneficial to all churches

[doxa00]

I am so glad someone is "contending for the faith!" Thank you for the advice Church Law Group!

[yoncallalily]

While I appreciate the Church Law Firm helping churches set out expectations up front, I am still at a loss for why we hate gays so much in the first place. I am not gay. But I watch people and it is so apparent they were born gay, ie, God made them that way. So can we do anything else but love them as God's children? Isn't it time we let down the sheet and stop proclaiming unclean? God is love...

[rich3111980]

Great Video from the Church Law Group! They are trying to protect the churches that do NOT believe gay marriage should HAVE to be performed in church that do not believe in gay marriage. The church is a private place to worship, remember? if you don't like what they believe, go to another church! ALL churches should stand by their beliefs and NOT be pressured by societal changes or the gay community. GREAT VIDEO!

THANK YOU

[nicksum29]

It is not a divisive issue - it is a very unifying one. You just won't let them unify. Simple as that.

[93openmind]

I think this is probably how most of America feels, but we are surrounded by media that wants to constantly bombard us with what will elicit an edgy reaction. What is wrong with wanting to keep marriage between a man and a woman in church? It is a church's right. Just as a gay couple has the right to exist. Churches should not be forced to change their beliefs just like a gay couple should not be forced to be straight.

[ellipsysis]

And their right to do so in this regard is not at all being threatened. Now, clearing the air a bit prior to these problems arising is probably better than waiting for problems to arise, but with or without papers clearly outlining their positions they're rights are not being taken away.

[swicegood0077]

Finally some practical and useful advice from an attorney that understands church legal issues. GREAT STUFF !

I love what the Church Law Group does

[mgoss85]

im jewish. why do i have to live MY LIFE based upon BIBLICAL ideology? so if millions of hindu immigrants moved to california....and their ideology is that parents decide who their children marry, and THEY DECIDED to change the CA constitution. what would happen if their majority vote won during the casting of a ballot? does the majority dictate the minority? because thats what happened in california! it was wrong! equality isnt just for some...its for EVERYONE!

[ellipsysis]

Faith is not the basis upon which to affirm or deny civil rights.

[mrsbake3]

What does the fact that they are assisting churches from a legal perspective have to do with denying civil rights. People go after each other and churches for reasons that have no other basis than that they were personally offended. Civil Rights are now being abused by those who are looking to cause trouble for others!

[ellipsysis]

Aside from the fact of equal and fair treatment not just being a civil matter, it is also a spiritual one. These folks would just as soon see my rights taken away, let alone their releasing video guides to other churches on exactly how to treat lgbt people like shit. What sparked my attention is the section on individually owned so-called "christian" businesses.