A CHALLENGE to those that are against a Fair Tax...
WHY do you believe that the Government is justified with taking so much of our hard-earned money?? Isn't this a clear sign that Government is too BIG & involved in too many areas of our lives?
Newt wrongly assumes that the economy will GROW & that somehow Govt will shrink in comparison.
That's a LIE because we can't grow under the current state (financial lawlessness, excess regulation on prouctive industry, Govt Waste & Govt Fraud)
The sales tax is insane. You wake up. As the sales taxes increase so does the black market. Now you have to create a police force to monitor every transaction in the economy. Now you have the overt economy and multiple underground economies. Payed off police and judges. Also, this includes an ever expanding internet. This is a lot of police work. A lot of government. The math does not work, but more importantly are the unintended consequences.
@land4citizens States have a sales tax, economically free places like Singapore (which has very low unemployment) has essentially a sales tax, in the form of a GST. Yet there are no major black markets (except when something is illegal, like drugs) As sales taxes increase so does the black market? No shit, that's just a reason to keep the rate low and flat. Such as it is, there is massive corruption with the current system, which no one understands anyway.
@land4citizens You don't know what you are talking about; we have one in Canada called the GST and it is the most efficient, glitch free tax we have in the whole country. And the actual amount of money it generated far exceeded expectations as nobody knew how large the underground economy was before the tax was introduced. Consumption taxing is the only way to tax the underground economy and we have the data to prove it.
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
"Under our plan, all city and state goverments will pay to the federal government a tax on all their spending, including the purchase of services or labor (wages)."
Fairtax Answering the Critics. Page 138
1) Where would cities and states GET the money to pay the federal government ?
2) Why just barely mention this, on page 138 of your fourth book?
3) Why haven't they shown research on this or told city and states??
Newt knows the fed government cant tax city and states.
But that -- you gullible morons -- is what Fairtax is based on. Go look it up in their OWN BOOK.
Fairtax The Truth Book -- page 138: "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay to the federal government a tax on all purchases, including the purchase of labor (wages)." (paraphrased)
Go get the book, open to page 138. Read it.
Why do they barely mention this massive new tax on city and state governments?
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one to ask the government to give them everything.
Newt has no clue what HR25 is about and it is obvious that he doesn't understand it. I ahve read the bill, and the books, and I get it...why can't a man kike Newt get it ?
@land4citizens Why not a fair tax? We're being screwed now. Of course the fair tax would work. WE the people have the power. For a person to even attempt to tell me that the current IRS system is fair is like telling me that Satan is going to give you ice cream in hell. Good lord wake up man.
@land4citizens Look at the latest twenty countries that have implemented similar programs... They are the fastest growing economies on the planet. Do your homework in real time.
@land4citizens could be the dumbest arguement against anything that ive ever seen. try reading the fair tax book instead of wasting everyones time with psyudo history. The fair tax started the vietnam war ha ha ha ha.... tool.
If anyone is interested in helping to get the Fair Tax talked about on national tv, I saw a good ad on tv that advertised a website that is developing a 30 minute show on the fair tax that will air on July 4th. PassFairTax(dot)com
Cap I guess you didn't hear -- Bootz has backtracked - you DO NOT keep your whole check any more. You employer gets to KEEP the money you used to pay in taxes. Did you know that? Fuck no. SO your employer keeps the money you used to get paid that went to taxes. In other words, you get aid less. Your employer gets piad a lot more. But YOU now have to pay the highest taxes on earth -- with NONE of the money you used to pay taxes before.
Cap -- dumb ass -- what will happen the first time the parents of a 6 year old with luekemia is forced to pay 100,000 in sales taxes ? Remember, there are NO exceptions. EVERYONE has to pay it, the math is based on that. So what happens when the parents have to pay 100K in sales tax to keep their child alive?
Nothing happens. Fairtax is such bullshit, it's not remotely possible it can pass
I understand how it works fine dumb ass. That poor person with cancer will -- supposedly - have to PAY 100,000 in sales tax. Got that retard?
They will have to pay 100,000 JUST because they got cancer. But their neighbor, with the same income, will not pay a dime. Why the fuck will the CANCER victim have to pay 100,000 in sales taxes you dumb fuck?
And guess what retard? The FT leaders KNOW this is bullshit, that's why they aren't trying to pass it, dumb fuck
Some -- dumb ass -- Newt knows good and well Fairtax is pure bullshit. It's been around 13 years, and he hasn't had time to READ it? Reading is what Newt does most of the day, retard. He knows FT is goofy crap. But he doesn't want to piss off the dumb fucks. SO he says "he wants to study it" or "they should have hearings"
I'm not wasting my time debating with someone who is such a blatant asshole. Ever try and make a point without a constant barrage of insults and name calling?
@somedudeinva since Fairtax is pure bullshit -- since it's a farce, since its own leaders know its a farce. one SHOULD insult and call names. It's a FUCKING FARCE you dumb ass. It's own leaders KNOW it and are NOT trying to pass this bullshit/
@IowaSea Wow. I wish I lived close to you so I could bask in your brilliance. Your neighbors are truly blessed to be so close to someone who will belittle those around them constantly.
I was a fair tax fan, still think it would be a better system tha the present one. But it is hardly a silver bullet, we would probably be better served by a flat tax on income. If we really lowered th cot of government, maybe a consumption tax could be worked out.
Any way you look at it, when we have so much money going to government, there is going to be a real problem collecting that money no matter the means employed.
recall that the Fair Tax collects revenue for SS/Medicare as well as the general fund. Currently FICA taxes cover SS/Medicare and income taxes (corporate and personal largely) cover the general fund. Combining the 2 does make for a larger rate. If you kept the 2 separate and left FICA alone (it's fairly straight forward), but replaced all other taxes with a retail sales tax similar to the Fair Tax, you could get a much lower rate that would be less likely to be cheated.
@chukmaty Of course the fair tax system would be better than the current system. Without the income tax, people could actually save their lost income and spend the money on savings, retirement, and consumption. The best system, in my opinion, would be to use a simple flat tax of 5-10% while using the fair tax system.
@chukmaty as a fairtax fan, you are an idiot, a mindless follower, who doesn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Fairtax is a gimmick, and absurd one at that. A huge tax on everyone's rent? Food? Utilities? Medical care? You dumb fuck, how would cancer victims even pay 100,000 sales tax on their chemo and surgery? How fucked would new home sales be with a 30% tax.
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Well Newt has had time now -- to fucking see more about FT.
Wonder what the thinks now?
Actually Newt knew right fucking away that Fairtax was pure fucking nonsense -- you can't fucking get trillions of dollars in taxes FROM the government.
Fairtax pretends it will get trillions of dollars in taxes FROM the government -- its goofy as shit, and they know it.
Newt knows that. So do corporations -- which laugh at Fairtx. Its pure fucking BS.
@12FlyMe What is so bad about it? It would eliminate the income tax and the 16th amendment. Compared to the government of the 1700s and 1800s it is horrendous, but compared to the system now it is wonderful.
Capitalist - think dumb ass think - whats so BAD about a 60% sales tax on medical? Dumb fuck - cause you CANT COLLECT IT. People dont fucking HAVE it/ Whats so BAD about a 60% tax on rent dumb fuck? People would SHIT their pants if you fucks got this passed/ And the Fairtax leaders KNOW it, its a bunch of horse shit -- they are NOT trying to pass their own plan, retard/
@12FlyMe First of all, it is 23% not 60%. Second, any person with cancer who works already has 40-50% of their money taxed anyway. It's a question of whether you want 40% of your income taken or 23% of your spending taken.
Cap wrong dumb fuck -- I know several people with cancer right now -- they pay little or NO income taxes/ Suddenly you are going to send them a bill for 100,000 dollars for federal taxes?
Fuck no you wont retard Fuck no -- no one will EVER pass a huge sales tax on cancer care, or rent, or anything else dumb fuck. Fairtax leaders don't fucking DARE have a hearing under oath - and that's one reason why
@BullshipDetector You obviously don't understand how it works. They won't get a bill for taxes. If you have a $100,000 medical bill, the person you pay it to takes $23,000 and sends it to the government.
What is your deal with cancer? It's not just a cancer tax. It's a consumption tax on everything (on yachts, houses, surfboards, etc).
Capital - wrong retard The average cost to fight luekemia is 400,000 dollars, depending how long they live. That's AT LEAST 100,000 in sales taxes- more like 150,000. For every single luekemia victim
Now dumb fuck - how the FUCK will they pay that? REmember retard, they have CANCER and probably can't work. How the fuck can they pay 150K in federal taxes? FT leaders know its bullshit you retard
@capitalist4life you dumb fuck - they have to pay 100,000 in sales tax, even if they have insurance, dumb fuck.
The basic point, you fucking retard, is that FT is a complete and utter farce. It's own leaders KNOW its a farce you dumb fuck, and are NOT trying to pass it. Fuck, they won''t even allow hearings under oath.
@BullshipDetector No they don't. If I wreck my car and my insurance company replaces it, I don't have to pay sales tax on the new car, the insurance company would.
You're right that no one in Congress is trying to get it passed.
My basic point is that I would rather pay a 23% tax on all my spending above the poverty level than pay half of my income. Maybe you like income taxes, but I don't understand your whole argument about the leaders and hearings and shit.
Cap dumb fuck -- your INSURANCE would also have to pay this tax/ Your premiums would be taxed. Your utilities, your surgery, your EVERYTHIGN dumb fuck.
Got that retard? Their math is based on EVERYONE paying this tax on EVERYTHING. No exceptions. Not on rent, not on cancer surgery, not on NASA not on new highways -- ALL spending even by government would be taxed/
@BullshipDetector Well then insurance would be more expensive, but most people would have more money to pay for it because they wouldn't have their income stolen.
Cap dumb fuck -- its a question of if you believe in the fucking tooth fairy, or not, dumb fuck/ Fairtax is a fucking hoax, a farce, no one is really trying to pass it. Their own leaders KNOW it's crazy a FUCK and won't dare even have hearings on it, it's so goofy.
Capital - every cancer victim -- without exception - under Fairtax, would have to pay massive taxes. There ARE no exceptions, at all. And the FT math is based on collecting every dime.
How the FUCK will you make the parents of a child with luekemia pay 100,000 in sales taxes? You fucking WON'T. Every fucking Congressman, 100%, would vote AGAINST such shit moron. See - no one is trying to ass this shit. Its a farce/
Newt's wrong, you don't pay more at the store. Of course, you repeal the 16th Amendment.! Newt doesn't quite get it, obviously. It's a whole lot easier to keep track of businesses rather than every working individual in the US.
Read the Fairtax book like I did -- not like a dumb ass, but with critical thinking, with a fucking brain in your fucking head.
Read page 148, for example. I use this as example, cause if you don't get this one, you are retarded.
Page 148 "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Oh yeah -- Major major. In fact, by taxing all government spending at all levels, as FT pretends to do -- the GOVERNMENT would be paying about half of its own income.
Have you actually read either of The Fair Tax books? If you would, you would see that this is the best system to get businesses back to the US with JOBS, have a corruption free tax system eliminating the lobbyists in Washington and encouraging people to WORK...
Newt knows the Fairtax is pure bullshit -- he doesn't shit on it cause he needs a lot of the stupid people that buy into crap like Fairtax.
Newt has his own con-job tax plan -- just tax work. Have ordinary income -- work -- be the ONLY taxable thing. Hedge funds, credit swaps, naked shorts -- all the shit that fuched our economy -- have no taxes on them.
Newt is a snake in the grass. Smart man - but a snake in the grass.
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!!
Good point by Newt. It doesn't eliminate the bureaucracy. It just shifts the collection agency from the individual to the business. And every state has a sales tax, so this would be a Federal sales tax on top of that, forcing businesses to separate out what revenue goes to the states, and what goes to the Fed. AND a bureaucracy would have to be set up to make sure businesses put a tax on every single product they sold. Talk about inefficient.
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!! 2+2=5, therefore, I am the pope.
Ask Newt -- you dumb ass lunatics -- if he thinks the federal government should put a sales tax -- a HUGE sales tax -- on everything state, local, county, and federal governments pay for.
Do you fuching thing Newt is that stupid that he would say, Yeah -- go ahead, put a sales tax on new highways, on military spending, on medicare.
You dumb asses -- of course Newt wont go for that.
LOL...if you read the Fairtax book four times Mark David Curran of Quincy, Illinois, you clueless spammer, then your comprehension skills are CLEARLY lacking. What a buffoon.
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
By the way -- Newt knows the FT plan is bullshit. He knows that full well.
But he "wants more time to study it".
Actually, he doesn't want to piss off the looney birds that support FT. He needs them. He wants a fundamentally different tax code -- just like FT moonies do. But he knows FT is nonsense.
Dont get me wrong -- I want the Fairtax to pass. Its such wonderful bullshit.
And if you pass this farce -- it would be such wonderful fun to watch you explain how the government can pay a trillion in sales taxes to itself, and count that as income.
Fun -- to watch you tell nursing home paitents with limited income, they owe 10K in sales tax.
Fun -- to watch you tell the parents of a child with luekemia they owe 50K in sales taxes.
Gee, I wonder why National Association of Retailers said Fairtax would DEVESTATE -- thats right -- DEVESTATE the economy. And the National Association of Retails knows a little sumpin about sales and taxes.
Also, the US Treasure studied the national sales tax idea - said it would be 65% - not 23 as the liars at Fairtax said. Maybe thats why National Retailers said the lunatic Fairtax would DEVSTATE the economy - cause it WOULD. Its bullshit.
Again, the problem with such statements is that we ALREADY pay all of the costs of the federal government. If we simply change the point in the economic cycle at which the government collects the tax, the overall costs to taxpayers would not change. We would simply trade hidden payroll and production taxes, and income taxes, for a single sales tax. The cost of government is not increasing, therefore the tax burden would not increase.
stop raising american prices on exports and american made products here and tax products no matter where they came from equally, we would be able to say "bye bye" to our trillion dollar trade deficit
they say that overall there WILL be more tax revenue under Obama but the majority of people will pay less i don't believe in out tax system i believe in the flat tax 24% of the price in a item gos to taxes a flat tax is 21% in a item so things go down it would exclude health care and food making it easier to live lowering health insurance by a estimated 17% the only people would lose is 125k-200k would lose 800$ in a yearly cash amount if you knock out the bush tax cuts...
Prices on consumer goods would not go up 20-27%, they would go down by a percentage roughly equal to the tax rate. This is because of the invisible taxation imbedded in consumer goods. Try reading The Fair Tax book to avoid completely embarrassing yourself.
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You actually think companies are so dumb that they wouldn't keep their prices at the same level? They would see that they have the same percentage of extra money as the tax on goods.
If one company kept their prices high to essentially steal revenue, they would soon be out of business because people would buy the less expensive item from the company that lowered their prices. Competition, it happens every day. For instance, if two car companies had a $20k car and a flat tax was instituted, the company that sold the car for 24% less would would sell all their cars and the company that tried to keep the extra revenue would hardly sell a thing!
So, does the CEO of Honda pay attention to what the CEO of Ford says or does he just try and put him under by selling less expensive cars at that point?
As I said, the CEO of Honda or Saab or Kia wouldn't take their calls and would then sell all of their cars as the two CEOs in your agreement, that is totally illegal, proceed to go under not selling any high priced cars!!!!!
If that's the case, then why don't they call each other and sell cars for three times as much? They wouldn't be asking for a bail-out now, they'd be rolling in dough! You're naive to think that each company does not try to undercut the others prices and put them under as the Japanese are doing to the Big Three!
alph dumb fuck I read all the Fairtax books, and articles. It's a fucking fairy tale you retard. And the leaders know it. So you put the HIGHEST tax on earth, on every product, service, on rent, on food, and EVERYTHING -- and prices go DOWN?
You fucking idiot/ How fucking stupid can you get and still exhale?
@alphabutch I read the book and agree with your conculsion regarding imbedded taxation but newt never embarrasses himself. i thought he did as good a job as you can answering the question of inflation. there would be initial inflation as some unscuplous companies tried to take advantage of such a dramatic changes but it would all sort itself out in the end
Fairtaxorg - "the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy($1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, ...40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers, ...the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. [Those] who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities."
Notice how the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" fans will mark as spam and negative a post that consists of just a direct quote from their own touted "research"...
Their fear of the truth of what this crazy tax would do to the middle classes is very telling. That it would raise the taxes of the middle classes and give the wealthy a tax cut is really not debateable, so they try to hide the truth since they have no answers.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
A consumption tax would tax people on what they buy, allowing and encouraging more savings. It give people the power to determine how much tax they pay. The rich guy who buys a Porshe will pay alot mot than me on my Toyota. I like that!
Overall (which is what matters) he would be paying around 50% LESS in average effective federal taxes , and on avg. the middle classes (you?) would be paying 10-100% MORE in average federal taxes.
The data, including that of fairtaxorg, shows this very cearly.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" = tax increase for the middle classes, huge tax cut for the rich.
I can't go for giving Paris Hilton a tax cut while raising the average carpenter's taxes.
Can you give any examples on how Middle and Lower classes pay more? Theoretical or specific? I didnt see any real stats on that fairtax site. As I see it, if I can bring home 20%+ more each payday, then I can control expenditures on taxes.
The middle classes would only have 8-18% more to take home (assuming employers also paid out to employees the FICA amounts employers pay in to match employee's share), while the wealthiest 1% would have 30.9% more.
Meanwhile, prices would go up 20-27% with the sales tax imposed
I hear ya percentage-wise but I dont understand how you arrive there. Those numbers dont seem to take account of the loopholes, offshore earnings, business tax breaks. Or payroll tax, capital gains taxes on IRA/401K, capital gains on property/investments, etc - These are things the middle class pays more than upper, plus the 20%+ increase in take home will pull alot of middle class into a position to earn off of these newly tax-free opportunities. Thats how everybody wins.
The numbers are what they are-- factual. They are not from me, but from the Congressional Budget Office, and they have better access to the true data than nearly anyone.
"plus the 20%+ increase in take home"
No-- assuming that all employers pay their employees their full gross pay, the middle classes would keep on average 8-18% more in their paycheck, the wealthy would have a 26-30.9% more, and prices would rise 20-25% or so when the tax is added on.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
2)It decreases the "well-being" of the middle classes for 5-15 years, while raising the "well-being" of the wealthy every year from year one. Fairtaxorg/BHI, table 11 tiny593htl
For those on the fence about this tax, which I consider a very bad idea (mainly because it hammers the middle classes), I am posting datalinks (some from supporters OWN SITE) backing up why I think it is a bad idea.
1) It raises the taxes of the middle classes while lowering the taxes of the wealthy tremendously (sources: CBO, Table 1A, tinyurl 3gudvf, and fairtaxorg/BHI, Table 9, tiny 67cyeq
Easily-- go to the tiny url links I have provided in prev. posts, and you will see:
1)CBO data of the avg. effective federal tax rates paid under current system, and the middle classes pay roughly 8-18% (this %age includes apporionments of Excise, CIT, and employers' share of FICA. The top 1% of earners pay 31%.
2)At fairtaxorg link you will see the estimated avg. effective federal rates under an FT/NST their OWN research(BHI) came up with, and this rate is around 19-21%.
There's a big difference in tax rate of income and tax rate of expenditure. I still cant say I understand the "how" of those percentages you provided, but it seems like it closes loopholes for the rich, closes the loop of under-the-table pay, negates Payrole taxes which fairtaxorg claims is higher on those under $97K, esp. the poor, seems to eliminate tax-cuts for the rich and allows rebates to those in poverty. Seems to add up well to me.
The "by expenditure" table is, obviously, broken down by "expenditure" deciles and thus by definition (it is a sales tax with prebate after all) those who spend less will obviously have a lower effective rate, lol.
But anyway, look at the effective rates of those who spend $22k ($1800 a month)of avg. $29k income (line 6, table 10),-- they'd be paying an eff. rate of 17% under FT/nst, whereas now they pay an avg. eff. rate around 8-12%...
The FT/NST would open massive new loopholes for the wealthy (buy a used condo in Manhattan, pay $0 in federal taxes), plus it gives the rich a huge tax cut-- compare the CBO real world numbers to those two tables atfairtaxorg:
CBO-- Effective Federal Tax Rates (includes allFICA/IT/Excise):
Correction: that should be "those who spend $27.5k ($2300/month)of avg. $31k income (line 7, table 10)"
But in any case, the "by expenditure table" is unrealistic (and, truthfully, more FTer fudging) when applied to reality, as can be seen by looking at deciles 1 and 10, avg. incomes v. expenditures. Plus table10 still shows much of the middle hit.
Income deciles are a realistic way to group and study a tax effect across a society, and table 9 clearly shows the mid classes being hammered.
What the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "Nasti" really is is a huge tax cut for the very wealthy and a huge tax raise for the middle class-- got to THE SUPPORTING "FAIR TAX" SITE and look at THEIR OWN "RESEARCH"-- tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
... or be a sucker and a lemming and fall for the scam Boortz and the gang are pulling.
All taxes on labor and capital are passed on in the price of the goods and services produced by labor and capital. All taxes directly on goods and services have to be paid by the final consumer. What is the difference between the Fair Tax that places all the burden of the tax on the final consumer and what we have now that does the same. Much better to have no taxes on labor and capital and no tax that can be shifted to or fall on the final consumer. The tax on land values is that kind of tax.
Newt could destroy this idiot Fairtax idea in 30 seconds - he knows its a crock. But he also knows there are a lot of stupid people that are fooled by it.
Newt knows the federal government can't pay itself 800 cents a year -- much less 800 billion. He knows thats insanity. Since the government has to PAY it -- it CANT be income. Lunatics at FT count this lunacy as INCOME to the government.
Okay, so you don't believe Fairtax would the highest sales tax on EARTH? 19% sales tax is the highest I could find.
This lunatic Fairtax would be at least 40%, and possibly 75%-100% before it collapsed.
Listen, I HOPE and PRAY the Fairtax passes. I really do. Maybe after we all see what a farce that crap is, we can find a real solution. We need a new tax code that doesn't punish real work (not that I do any) and earned income. But Fairtax literally is a farce.
Wouldn't you really rather pay your taxes once, in one place, where the transarency is there, rather than over and over, where they are invisible?
You won't lose money - you will simply shift where it is paid from, and you will pay at the end of the consumption cycle.
But for Mark Douglas, I propose the following exception - impose the highest tax in the world on him and him alone. Just to be fair and make him take responsibility for his lame words.
The FAIR TAX is not the world's highest tax. The tax rate in Europe is far higher, when you compare apples to apples. The FAIR TAX replaces the income tax, so under the FAIR TAX taxes are EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY ARE NOW. In fact, they will collect more money with less effort, and UNTAX the POOR and MORE EQUITABLY TAX the rich. We will recoup the taxes from 1.5 Trillion dollars that are currently untaxed.
Nonsense -- Farce tax would have its OWN problems -- for eg, since businesses pay no taxes whatsoever -- people would just declare themselves a business. I sure would. I would instantly be in the publishing and real estate business. I would pay no taxes whatsoever. So would millions of others.
IN fact, the incentive to cheat under the Farce tax would be much higher -- since you morons would tax everything with the worlds HIGHEST sales tax - including gas, utilities, car insurance etc.
It's true there still IS an incentive to cheat, but the mechanism makes it much more difficult. So the underground economy of 1.5 trillion dollars will now be subject to taxes, where it is now water under the bridge.
little child -- are you mental? Untaxes the poor my ass.
You apparently are fooled by the rhetoric. Untax nothing. The POOR would have to pay the WORLDS highest sales tax -- on their rent. And on their car insurance. And on their medical bills. And on their food.
You morons should wake up. This idiot prebate is a joke. A poor person can get cancer too -- and have 50,000- 100,000 in sales tax on their chemo by this idiot plan. How does fairtax untax them?
I just explained it to you moron -- fairtax is on rent you idiot. And medical cost, and utlitilies. ITs the fucking highest sales tax on earth you idiot. What the fuck do you think the highest sales tax on EARTH would impact people whose largest expense is their rent. Rent,utility bills, even car insurance and gasoline would have the HIGHEST SALES TAX ON EARTH.
Your fucking prebate is a fucking joke if the poor person rents, or has utility bills, or
Why don't you look up the word 'civilized' in the dictionary, see if you qualify?
Anyway, it's not the highest SALES TAX ON EARTH. Quit shouting, you're losing points and displaying your ignorance on so many levels we can't keep track.
lit child - you are informed my ass, you don't even know the difference between the fairtax and flat tax you idiot. You are an idiot about taxes. Who informed you? Dumbo?
What a crock, did you bother to include VAT's in your analysis of countries with high sales taxes. How about that most European countries have a VAT AND AN INCOME TAX!
Newt is a genius with words. He knows the FT is utter nonsense, but he isnt about to piss off the FT groupies. So he calls it "interesting" and wants to "look into it more". I guarantee you, he could pulverize the FT in ten minutes if he wanted to.
MarkDouglasC & MybookDeal & TaxSanity = the same person!
How do I know this? Look at the profiles... same age. Coincidence? How about this: MarkDouglasC told me in another post that he wrote books. Also notice... he spams all FairTax video's. NOBODY can be that against this unless he has an interest to protect. He's IRS plain and simple. Nice try Mark!
Fairtax tomorrow? What if tomorrow, you figured out nursing homes would be charged sales tax? What if tomorrow, renters found out they had to pay a huge sales tax - on rent!? What if tomorrow, you ruined the new house market, by making new homes pay a high sales tax? What if tomorrow, cancer patients would have to pay high taxes on chemo therapy and surgery? You folks have no idea what your own idiot tax plan does.
Newt knows the FT is a crock of crapola. There is no question in my mind that he is smart enough to know that. But Newt cant tell you morons that you are morons. But he wisely hedges his bet -- he wants to FIRST get rid of 16th amendment, on income tax. Newt's wet dream for years has to been to have ONLY workers pay ANY tax.
The Fair tax doesnt even slow down at stupid. It goes right to insane. Nursing homes, hospitals, new home builders, the military, renters, the car industry -- ARE GOING TO RAM THIS DOWN YOUR IDIOT THROAT. They wont pay this lunatic tax, they will get exemptions, moron. And so will a lot more. The real rate will be more like 50%. ANd thats just the START of the problems with this lunacy.
It doesn't matter. The initial revenue-neutral rate of the FairTax is whatever it needs to be to equal the current burden of income taxes on the whole economy. So if it needs to be 50% or 60% or even 80%, then that's how badly income taxes are impacting our economy and that's how much prices can be reduced after income taxes are eliminated and before the Fairtax is applied. Plus everyone gets to keep their whole paychecks and we get the prebate. That's a pretty damn good deal, imo.
Give us freedom of choice in taxation by returning authority and responsibility for local needs to the states where it belongs. If you like big spending and high taxes, move to a high tax state. If you like low taxes, move to a low tax state.
Eventially, the fair tax will become an additional tax, because the income tax will resurrect and we will have both! It is the nature of the government beast.
The single most hideous thing about the current tax system is the way it gathers enormous amounts of personal information on people. I would like to know how the "pass through" system works (so as to not tax poor people), and what kind of information it gathers on individuals.
Once a year, you apply for your prebate. As I understand it, the application has your SSN and number of people in your household. Every month, you get a "prebate" check for the amount of tax you would spend on necessities at the poverty line. So if you spend at poverty level, you pay zero federal tax.
write -- the Prebate is part of the bullshit/ They are NOT trying to pass this, its a fucking farce, the leaders KNOW its a farce, you might as well say you are gonna go to MARS every year. You have a lot better chance of going to Mars than ever seeing this shit passed-- its own LEADERS are hiding from hearings under oath. Its total nonsense
The best thing about the FairTax is that it makes you conscious of and gives you control over the amount of taxes you pay, as opposed to the lulling effect that withholding creates. If the FairTax were implemented, people might really start realizing just how bloated the federal gov't has become, and would start voting for people who would truly shrink its size and scope. i.e. Ron Paul
I'm pretty leery about letting the gov't decide a sales tax rate for the entire country, on TOP of state and city sales taxes. That's just insane! The Founders never intended that. We only have limited federal sales taxes (known as "sin taxes" and gas tax) for a reason. Let the people in the various states determine their needs and raise or lower the sales tax on their own. Despite your arguments against the income tax, we're doing just fine with it, esp. considering Europe's high taxation.
The income tax system punishes hard work by confiscating the fruits of our labor while the Fair Tax would punish us for enjoying the fruits of our labor.
I feel our federal government should be doing neither. A small federal government limited by the constitution, prohibited from directly taxing the people, is the legacy the founding fathers have left us. Preserve Liberty, join the Ron Paul Revolution.
gsuitter- Aparently, you haven't read the book and don't know what you are talking about, embedded taxes would also be abolished, the ones you don't see dummy. Down with ron paul, we are at war and he doesn't see it.
Retirees shouldn't be paying ANY federal taxes on their Social Security, which was their OWN money that the government took against their will in the FIRST place!
They are not already paying a 25% "magical embedded tax". That is just the lie they are tolled to buy into this scam. And the average retiree only pays 15% in federal taxes. And you want to replace that with a 30% NST on top of local sales taxes.
I've read the book on this "UNfair-tax". I want lower taxes for everyone but not at the expense of raising taxes on one group to give to another group. A Republican lead committee said this benefits a few at the expense of many. And we sure do not need any more welfare Pre-bate hand-outs when a Non-medcaid nursing home patient paying $30,000 annually must pay an extra 30% NST under this plan.
The "Fair Tax" idea is a scam created by the Church of Scientology because they were at war with the IRS for not granting their cult tax exempt status. Google up the facts if you want to read more. OpinionJournal has a recent article that exposes the whole thing.
You idiots are falling for a scam made up by a cult that was founded by a hack science fiction writer!!
That's right, fool. Keep insisting that your little crackpot tax scheme wasn't crafted by L Ron Hubbard's UFO cult. The truth hurts too much for you to believe, apparently.
You obviously got your information from that Wall Street Journal article by Bartlett... And we all know they are NEVER wrong! The Scientologist proposal was in reply to not making the tax-free status they wanted. They've long since lost interest in getting rid of the IRS. I'd like to know how you think it is a scam anyways? Or are you just throwing the 'cult' word around like spaghetti to try to make it stick?
What? YOU again? Begone, you fool! If you refuse to accept the AWFULE TRUTH that your "Fair" tax idea is just a Scientologist scam, then there's no hope for you. Back to your Mothership. Tell your Lord Xenu that you suck!
Besides the fact that that myth has been debunked several times over, there is the fact that even if it were true, IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE DEBATE OVER THE MERITS OF THE FAIR TAX!
Ad homenem attacks are non-sequiters. They don't have any bearing on the validity of the argument.
A CHALLENGE to those that are against a Fair Tax...
WHY do you believe that the Government is justified with taking so much of our hard-earned money?? Isn't this a clear sign that Government is too BIG & involved in too many areas of our lives?
Newt wrongly assumes that the economy will GROW & that somehow Govt will shrink in comparison.
That's a LIE because we can't grow under the current state (financial lawlessness, excess regulation on prouctive industry, Govt Waste & Govt Fraud)
DanH454 3 months ago 2
@DanH454 Very well said, Dan! (applause)
pete5668 1 month ago
The sales tax is insane. You wake up. As the sales taxes increase so does the black market. Now you have to create a police force to monitor every transaction in the economy. Now you have the overt economy and multiple underground economies. Payed off police and judges. Also, this includes an ever expanding internet. This is a lot of police work. A lot of government. The math does not work, but more importantly are the unintended consequences.
land4citizens 4 months ago
@land4citizens States have a sales tax, economically free places like Singapore (which has very low unemployment) has essentially a sales tax, in the form of a GST. Yet there are no major black markets (except when something is illegal, like drugs) As sales taxes increase so does the black market? No shit, that's just a reason to keep the rate low and flat. Such as it is, there is massive corruption with the current system, which no one understands anyway.
kev3d 3 months ago 3
@land4citizens You don't know what you are talking about; we have one in Canada called the GST and it is the most efficient, glitch free tax we have in the whole country. And the actual amount of money it generated far exceeded expectations as nobody knew how large the underground economy was before the tax was introduced. Consumption taxing is the only way to tax the underground economy and we have the data to prove it.
CasualSoul 1 month ago
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For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
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Did you know about this about Fairtax?
"Under our plan, all city and state goverments will pay to the federal government a tax on all their spending, including the purchase of services or labor (wages)."
Fairtax Answering the Critics. Page 138
1) Where would cities and states GET the money to pay the federal government ?
2) Why just barely mention this, on page 138 of your fourth book?
3) Why haven't they shown research on this or told city and states??
MathTruthTax 1 year ago
Newt knows the fed government cant tax city and states.
But that -- you gullible morons -- is what Fairtax is based on. Go look it up in their OWN BOOK.
Fairtax The Truth Book -- page 138: "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay to the federal government a tax on all purchases, including the purchase of labor (wages)." (paraphrased)
Go get the book, open to page 138. Read it.
Why do they barely mention this massive new tax on city and state governments?
NawwLeans 1 year ago
@NawwLeans and your 35 other youtube aliases
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one to ask the government to give them everything.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
Newt has no clue what HR25 is about and it is obvious that he doesn't understand it. I ahve read the bill, and the books, and I get it...why can't a man kike Newt get it ?
MrSYSTEM20 1 year ago
Sales taxes are not popular once enacted. Read history and put the unfair tax book down.
land4citizens 1 year ago
Name 5 countries that have the fair tax.
land4citizens 1 year ago
@land4citizens Why not a fair tax? We're being screwed now. Of course the fair tax would work. WE the people have the power. For a person to even attempt to tell me that the current IRS system is fair is like telling me that Satan is going to give you ice cream in hell. Good lord wake up man.
Marksnotebook 4 months ago 2
The Fair Tax is the dumbest tax we could possibly have. If you look at the history of sales taxes:
Charles I, 1642, deposed, decapitated
James II, 1688, deposed, Stuarts terminated
George III, lost colonies
Louis XVI, 1789-93, guillotined
Jefferson Davis, 1861-65, funds CSA with sales tax, CSA goes bankrupt
Czar Nicholas II, cannot finance war from sales taxes, shot, Romanov's done
India 1947, sales tax on salt, British gone
South Vietnam 1960-65, doubled sales tax, landowners untaxed, Cong in
land4citizens 1 year ago
@land4citizens Look at the latest twenty countries that have implemented similar programs... They are the fastest growing economies on the planet. Do your homework in real time.
sjsod70 1 year ago
@land4citizens could be the dumbest arguement against anything that ive ever seen. try reading the fair tax book instead of wasting everyones time with psyudo history. The fair tax started the vietnam war ha ha ha ha.... tool.
aussieconservative 1 year ago
If anyone is interested in helping to get the Fair Tax talked about on national tv, I saw a good ad on tv that advertised a website that is developing a 30 minute show on the fair tax that will air on July 4th. PassFairTax(dot)com
BrSmith1321 1 year ago
Cap I guess you didn't hear -- Bootz has backtracked - you DO NOT keep your whole check any more. You employer gets to KEEP the money you used to pay in taxes. Did you know that? Fuck no. SO your employer keeps the money you used to get paid that went to taxes. In other words, you get aid less. Your employer gets piad a lot more. But YOU now have to pay the highest taxes on earth -- with NONE of the money you used to pay taxes before.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector Block this idiot.....this is one of many ID's
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
Cap -- dumb ass -- what will happen the first time the parents of a 6 year old with luekemia is forced to pay 100,000 in sales taxes ? Remember, there are NO exceptions. EVERYONE has to pay it, the math is based on that. So what happens when the parents have to pay 100K in sales tax to keep their child alive?
Nothing happens. Fairtax is such bullshit, it's not remotely possible it can pass
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
I understand how it works fine dumb ass. That poor person with cancer will -- supposedly - have to PAY 100,000 in sales tax. Got that retard?
They will have to pay 100,000 JUST because they got cancer. But their neighbor, with the same income, will not pay a dime. Why the fuck will the CANCER victim have to pay 100,000 in sales taxes you dumb fuck?
And guess what retard? The FT leaders KNOW this is bullshit, that's why they aren't trying to pass it, dumb fuck
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
Newt has some reading assignments to catch up on.
somedudeinva 1 year ago
Some -- dumb ass -- Newt knows good and well Fairtax is pure bullshit. It's been around 13 years, and he hasn't had time to READ it? Reading is what Newt does most of the day, retard. He knows FT is goofy crap. But he doesn't want to piss off the dumb fucks. SO he says "he wants to study it" or "they should have hearings"
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe
I'm not wasting my time debating with someone who is such a blatant asshole. Ever try and make a point without a constant barrage of insults and name calling?
somedudeinva 1 year ago
@somedudeinva since Fairtax is pure bullshit -- since it's a farce, since its own leaders know its a farce. one SHOULD insult and call names. It's a FUCKING FARCE you dumb ass. It's own leaders KNOW it and are NOT trying to pass this bullshit/
IowaSea 1 year ago
@IowaSea Wow. I wish I lived close to you so I could bask in your brilliance. Your neighbors are truly blessed to be so close to someone who will belittle those around them constantly.
Please eat something explosive and go away.
somedudeinva 1 year ago
@IowaSea Block this idiot.....this is one of many ID's
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
Newt is clueless on this. Very sad.
eflint1 2 years ago
Newt needs to look at this closer.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
I was a fair tax fan, still think it would be a better system tha the present one. But it is hardly a silver bullet, we would probably be better served by a flat tax on income. If we really lowered th cot of government, maybe a consumption tax could be worked out.
Any way you look at it, when we have so much money going to government, there is going to be a real problem collecting that money no matter the means employed.
chukmaty 2 years ago
@chukmaty Nah Fair Tax is much better.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
recall that the Fair Tax collects revenue for SS/Medicare as well as the general fund. Currently FICA taxes cover SS/Medicare and income taxes (corporate and personal largely) cover the general fund. Combining the 2 does make for a larger rate. If you kept the 2 separate and left FICA alone (it's fairly straight forward), but replaced all other taxes with a retail sales tax similar to the Fair Tax, you could get a much lower rate that would be less likely to be cheated.
oterj0 2 years ago
@chukmaty Of course the fair tax system would be better than the current system. Without the income tax, people could actually save their lost income and spend the money on savings, retirement, and consumption. The best system, in my opinion, would be to use a simple flat tax of 5-10% while using the fair tax system.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@chukmaty as a fairtax fan, you are an idiot, a mindless follower, who doesn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Fairtax is a gimmick, and absurd one at that. A huge tax on everyone's rent? Food? Utilities? Medical care? You dumb fuck, how would cancer victims even pay 100,000 sales tax on their chemo and surgery? How fucked would new home sales be with a 30% tax.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
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Well Newt has had time now -- to fucking see more about FT.
Wonder what the thinks now?
Actually Newt knew right fucking away that Fairtax was pure fucking nonsense -- you can't fucking get trillions of dollars in taxes FROM the government.
Fairtax pretends it will get trillions of dollars in taxes FROM the government -- its goofy as shit, and they know it.
Newt knows that. So do corporations -- which laugh at Fairtx. Its pure fucking BS.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
If he runs in 2012, he better get on board.
capitalist4life 2 years ago 2
Cap -- anyone for the Fairtax is an idiot or a liar. My guess is, you arent a liar/
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe What is so bad about it? It would eliminate the income tax and the 16th amendment. Compared to the government of the 1700s and 1800s it is horrendous, but compared to the system now it is wonderful.
capitalist4life 1 year ago
Capitalist - think dumb ass think - whats so BAD about a 60% sales tax on medical? Dumb fuck - cause you CANT COLLECT IT. People dont fucking HAVE it/ Whats so BAD about a 60% tax on rent dumb fuck? People would SHIT their pants if you fucks got this passed/ And the Fairtax leaders KNOW it, its a bunch of horse shit -- they are NOT trying to pass their own plan, retard/
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe First of all, it is 23% not 60%. Second, any person with cancer who works already has 40-50% of their money taxed anyway. It's a question of whether you want 40% of your income taken or 23% of your spending taken.
capitalist4life 1 year ago
Cap wrong dumb fuck -- I know several people with cancer right now -- they pay little or NO income taxes/ Suddenly you are going to send them a bill for 100,000 dollars for federal taxes?
Fuck no you wont retard Fuck no -- no one will EVER pass a huge sales tax on cancer care, or rent, or anything else dumb fuck. Fairtax leaders don't fucking DARE have a hearing under oath - and that's one reason why
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector You obviously don't understand how it works. They won't get a bill for taxes. If you have a $100,000 medical bill, the person you pay it to takes $23,000 and sends it to the government.
What is your deal with cancer? It's not just a cancer tax. It's a consumption tax on everything (on yachts, houses, surfboards, etc).
capitalist4life 1 year ago
Capital - wrong retard The average cost to fight luekemia is 400,000 dollars, depending how long they live. That's AT LEAST 100,000 in sales taxes- more like 150,000. For every single luekemia victim
Now dumb fuck - how the FUCK will they pay that? REmember retard, they have CANCER and probably can't work. How the fuck can they pay 150K in federal taxes? FT leaders know its bullshit you retard
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector They should have gotten health insurance. Why are you worried about the $100k in taxes? How will they pay the remaining $300k?
capitalist4life 1 year ago
@capitalist4life you dumb fuck - they have to pay 100,000 in sales tax, even if they have insurance, dumb fuck.
The basic point, you fucking retard, is that FT is a complete and utter farce. It's own leaders KNOW its a farce you dumb fuck, and are NOT trying to pass it. Fuck, they won''t even allow hearings under oath.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector No they don't. If I wreck my car and my insurance company replaces it, I don't have to pay sales tax on the new car, the insurance company would.
You're right that no one in Congress is trying to get it passed.
My basic point is that I would rather pay a 23% tax on all my spending above the poverty level than pay half of my income. Maybe you like income taxes, but I don't understand your whole argument about the leaders and hearings and shit.
capitalist4life 1 year ago
Cap dumb fuck -- your INSURANCE would also have to pay this tax/ Your premiums would be taxed. Your utilities, your surgery, your EVERYTHIGN dumb fuck.
Got that retard? Their math is based on EVERYONE paying this tax on EVERYTHING. No exceptions. Not on rent, not on cancer surgery, not on NASA not on new highways -- ALL spending even by government would be taxed/
In other words, dumb fuck - its a farce/
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector Well then insurance would be more expensive, but most people would have more money to pay for it because they wouldn't have their income stolen.
capitalist4life 1 year ago
Cap dumb fuck -- its a question of if you believe in the fucking tooth fairy, or not, dumb fuck/ Fairtax is a fucking hoax, a farce, no one is really trying to pass it. Their own leaders KNOW it's crazy a FUCK and won't dare even have hearings on it, it's so goofy.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
Capital - every cancer victim -- without exception - under Fairtax, would have to pay massive taxes. There ARE no exceptions, at all. And the FT math is based on collecting every dime.
How the FUCK will you make the parents of a child with luekemia pay 100,000 in sales taxes? You fucking WON'T. Every fucking Congressman, 100%, would vote AGAINST such shit moron. See - no one is trying to ass this shit. Its a farce/
12FlyMe 1 year ago
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.
Fairtax is pure fucking nonsense. Its not a serious fucking plan. The fine print is a massive NEW tax on government.
Fairtax knows their OWN plan is fucking farce, that's why they wont even have hearings about it under oath. Its pure shit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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yes of course I read both Fairtax books. Pure bullshit.
And if you fucking read them -- and didn't notice a fucking thing -- you are a fucking idiot.
Did you fucking see the parts where it said the government would be the biggest taxpayer - well, major. But did you fucking read that?
Did your fucking BRAIN even fucking WONDER?
No other fucking nation on fucking earth pretends to tax their own government retard. Yet this didn't even fucking make you think twice?
What a dumbas
TubeTaxPro 2 years ago
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Yeah I read the books -- they are bullshit.
They try to run this shit by you -- that they will get about half the tax money FROM the government
. Read page 148 moron "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
These Fairtax fuckers pretend they will make city and states pay this huge fucking tax too -- about half their money comes FROM the government.
Its pure FUCKING bullshit -- and they know it. Thats why they hide it in the back.
Google Fairtax absurdity.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
Newt's wrong, you don't pay more at the store. Of course, you repeal the 16th Amendment.! Newt doesn't quite get it, obviously. It's a whole lot easier to keep track of businesses rather than every working individual in the US.
ziglet2008 2 years ago 2
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MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
You are probably on welfare. If you worked for a living or owned a business you might educate yourself
curtisrpack 2 years ago 2
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Newt hides from saying what he thinks -- saying another book is coming out.
Well -- that book is out now, Mr. Newt! Is it now possible to get about half of government revenue, by taxing the government?
SteamboatPolar 2 years ago
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Read the Fairtax book like I did -- not like a dumb ass, but with critical thinking, with a fucking brain in your fucking head.
Read page 148, for example. I use this as example, cause if you don't get this one, you are retarded.
Page 148 "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Oh yeah -- Major major. In fact, by taxing all government spending at all levels, as FT pretends to do -- the GOVERNMENT would be paying about half of its own income.
Pure fucking BS.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
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Oh yeah fart face - I'm sorry. You really can get about half your revenue FROM the government -- like Fairtax pretends.
Retard -- that's how FT is fooling your dumb ass. It pretends to tax the government, which is pure bullshit you tard.
FT not onlly pretends to tax the federal government -- its plan taxes ALL government at all levels.
Where the fuck will the government get the money to pay themselve you fucking idiot.
Fairtax is bullshit - you are being fooled
TubeTaxPro 2 years ago
Have you actually read either of The Fair Tax books? If you would, you would see that this is the best system to get businesses back to the US with JOBS, have a corruption free tax system eliminating the lobbyists in Washington and encouraging people to WORK...
nrobyar 2 years ago
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Fairtax is interesting?
Newt knows its bullshit.
Fairtax is a toilet that flushes into your bathtub you retard.
How the fuch will FT make the government pay itself over a trillion a year in sales tax?
Cause that's exactlly what their bullshit math is based on.
Read page 148 - "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
Pure bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago 2
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Newt knows the Fairtax is pure bullshit -- he doesn't shit on it cause he needs a lot of the stupid people that buy into crap like Fairtax.
Newt has his own con-job tax plan -- just tax work. Have ordinary income -- work -- be the ONLY taxable thing. Hedge funds, credit swaps, naked shorts -- all the shit that fuched our economy -- have no taxes on them.
Newt is a snake in the grass. Smart man - but a snake in the grass.
FarceTax 2 years ago
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Fairtax is based on pure bullshit..
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!!
2+2=5, therefore, I am the pope.
Its the same logic.
FarceTax 2 years ago
Good point by Newt. It doesn't eliminate the bureaucracy. It just shifts the collection agency from the individual to the business. And every state has a sales tax, so this would be a Federal sales tax on top of that, forcing businesses to separate out what revenue goes to the states, and what goes to the Fed. AND a bureaucracy would have to be set up to make sure businesses put a tax on every single product they sold. Talk about inefficient.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
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Fairtax is based on pure bullshit..
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!! 2+2=5, therefore, I am the pope.
Its the same logic.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
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Newt wouldn't touch the fairtax with your dick. He knows the Fairtax is a crock.
Newt has his own tax plan -- its to have no tax on unearned income. He just wants ordinary income - work -- to pay taxes.
Newt knows Fairtax is a bunch of crap -- he just doesn't want to piss off the lunatics by saying so.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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Ask Newt -- you dumb ass lunatics -- if he thinks the federal government should put a sales tax -- a HUGE sales tax -- on everything state, local, county, and federal governments pay for.
Do you fuching thing Newt is that stupid that he would say, Yeah -- go ahead, put a sales tax on new highways, on military spending, on medicare.
You dumb asses -- of course Newt wont go for that.
Idiots.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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read the FT book four times. I read the new book. I read all I could online -- especially Boortz own writings
Its pure bullshit. For example, you idiot, read page 148 -- "the federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR TAXPAYER"
Thats right you lunatic - Boortz is conning you idiots telling your dumb asses that he will get a major part of taxes FROM the government.
And you retards sit there and eat that shit up.
Here is a clue you moron - wont work.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
LOL...if you read the Fairtax book four times Mark David Curran of Quincy, Illinois, you clueless spammer, then your comprehension skills are CLEARLY lacking. What a buffoon.
abnrgrtr 2 years ago
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
abnrgrtr 2 years ago
REmember Fairtax preached their ass off about "Only people pay taxes".
Remember?
Then you FT lunatics pretend you can tax the hell out of GOVERNMENT. A huge sales tax -- on all governments -- local, state, federal, everything.
Government in fact would be the BIGGEST tax payer!
Ask Newt if the state, local, and federal government should pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax.
Newt knows FT is pure bullshit.
Anyone with a brain should know that.
Boortz is a liar.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
By the way -- Newt knows the FT plan is bullshit. He knows that full well.
But he "wants more time to study it".
Actually, he doesn't want to piss off the looney birds that support FT. He needs them. He wants a fundamentally different tax code -- just like FT moonies do. But he knows FT is nonsense.
Ron Paul knows FT is nonsense too.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
Dont get me wrong -- I want the Fairtax to pass. Its such wonderful bullshit.
And if you pass this farce -- it would be such wonderful fun to watch you explain how the government can pay a trillion in sales taxes to itself, and count that as income.
Fun -- to watch you tell nursing home paitents with limited income, they owe 10K in sales tax.
Fun -- to watch you tell the parents of a child with luekemia they owe 50K in sales taxes.
Fun fun. Please pass the FT.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
No, we don't pay 50,000 in sales tax on our chemo therapy and surgery.
We don't pay sales tax on our rent.
We don't pay sales tax on new homes.
Fairtax is a congame, its nonsense. Furthermore, the reason it won't pass -- the leaders KNOW its bs. They wont let it pass.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
Gee, I wonder why National Association of Retailers said Fairtax would DEVESTATE -- thats right -- DEVESTATE the economy. And the National Association of Retails knows a little sumpin about sales and taxes.
Also, the US Treasure studied the national sales tax idea - said it would be 65% - not 23 as the liars at Fairtax said. Maybe thats why National Retailers said the lunatic Fairtax would DEVSTATE the economy - cause it WOULD. Its bullshit.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
Again, the problem with such statements is that we ALREADY pay all of the costs of the federal government. If we simply change the point in the economic cycle at which the government collects the tax, the overall costs to taxpayers would not change. We would simply trade hidden payroll and production taxes, and income taxes, for a single sales tax. The cost of government is not increasing, therefore the tax burden would not increase.
dontbugme384 2 years ago
I would pay a little extra for stuff just to
eliminate the IRS alone.
That is true freedom.
edthescienceguy 2 years ago
sales tax great idea
stop raising american prices on exports and american made products here and tax products no matter where they came from equally, we would be able to say "bye bye" to our trillion dollar trade deficit
sayanythingkicksass 2 years ago 2
they say that overall there WILL be more tax revenue under Obama but the majority of people will pay less i don't believe in out tax system i believe in the flat tax 24% of the price in a item gos to taxes a flat tax is 21% in a item so things go down it would exclude health care and food making it easier to live lowering health insurance by a estimated 17% the only people would lose is 125k-200k would lose 800$ in a yearly cash amount if you knock out the bush tax cuts...
Loki8901 3 years ago
Prices on consumer goods would not go up 20-27%, they would go down by a percentage roughly equal to the tax rate. This is because of the invisible taxation imbedded in consumer goods. Try reading The Fair Tax book to avoid completely embarrassing yourself.
alphabutch 3 years ago 2
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You actually think companies are so dumb that they wouldn't keep their prices at the same level? They would see that they have the same percentage of extra money as the tax on goods.
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
If one company kept their prices high to essentially steal revenue, they would soon be out of business because people would buy the less expensive item from the company that lowered their prices. Competition, it happens every day. For instance, if two car companies had a $20k car and a flat tax was instituted, the company that sold the car for 24% less would would sell all their cars and the company that tried to keep the extra revenue would hardly sell a thing!
barefoot612 3 years ago
Except that the CEO of company 1 and the CEO of company 2 have each other's phone numbers.
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
So, does the CEO of Honda pay attention to what the CEO of Ford says or does he just try and put him under by selling less expensive cars at that point?
barefoot612 3 years ago
No, they come to an understanding because both of them have the capability to lower prices. Since neither of them want to, they strike a deal.
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
As I said, the CEO of Honda or Saab or Kia wouldn't take their calls and would then sell all of their cars as the two CEOs in your agreement, that is totally illegal, proceed to go under not selling any high priced cars!!!!!
barefoot612 3 years ago
But all the CEO's have each other's numbers. Seriously, how naive can you be?
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
If that's the case, then why don't they call each other and sell cars for three times as much? They wouldn't be asking for a bail-out now, they'd be rolling in dough! You're naive to think that each company does not try to undercut the others prices and put them under as the Japanese are doing to the Big Three!
barefoot612 3 years ago
Because their secret would be obvious and the feds would move in on their asses.
Believe whatever lets you sleep at night, bub.
TarkinRocher 3 years ago
alph dumb fuck I read all the Fairtax books, and articles. It's a fucking fairy tale you retard. And the leaders know it. So you put the HIGHEST tax on earth, on every product, service, on rent, on food, and EVERYTHING -- and prices go DOWN?
You fucking idiot/ How fucking stupid can you get and still exhale?
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@alphabutch I read the book and agree with your conculsion regarding imbedded taxation but newt never embarrasses himself. i thought he did as good a job as you can answering the question of inflation. there would be initial inflation as some unscuplous companies tried to take advantage of such a dramatic changes but it would all sort itself out in the end
aussieconservative 1 year ago
@alphabutch Which book is that? Is that the one by Boortz?
ebeatworld 1 year ago
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@alphabutch Which book is that? Is that the one by Boortz?
ebeatworld 1 year ago
Fairtaxorg - "the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy($1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, ...40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers, ...the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. [Those] who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities."
We're reduced to tit 4 tat
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
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Notice how the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" fans will mark as spam and negative a post that consists of just a direct quote from their own touted "research"...
Their fear of the truth of what this crazy tax would do to the middle classes is very telling. That it would raise the taxes of the middle classes and give the wealthy a tax cut is really not debateable, so they try to hide the truth since they have no answers.
"FAIR" Tax = FAIL
Diskatopia 3 years ago
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From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
Diskatopia777 3 years ago
A consumption tax would tax people on what they buy, allowing and encouraging more savings. It give people the power to determine how much tax they pay. The rich guy who buys a Porshe will pay alot mot than me on my Toyota. I like that!
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
Overall (which is what matters) he would be paying around 50% LESS in average effective federal taxes , and on avg. the middle classes (you?) would be paying 10-100% MORE in average federal taxes.
The data, including that of fairtaxorg, shows this very cearly.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" = tax increase for the middle classes, huge tax cut for the rich.
I can't go for giving Paris Hilton a tax cut while raising the average carpenter's taxes.
"Fair" Tax=FAIL
Diskwin 3 years ago
Can you give any examples on how Middle and Lower classes pay more? Theoretical or specific? I didnt see any real stats on that fairtax site. As I see it, if I can bring home 20%+ more each payday, then I can control expenditures on taxes.
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
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The middle classes would only have 8-18% more to take home (assuming employers also paid out to employees the FICA amounts employers pay in to match employee's share), while the wealthiest 1% would have 30.9% more.
Meanwhile, prices would go up 20-27% with the sales tax imposed
See who wins again?
Diskwin 3 years ago
I hear ya percentage-wise but I dont understand how you arrive there. Those numbers dont seem to take account of the loopholes, offshore earnings, business tax breaks. Or payroll tax, capital gains taxes on IRA/401K, capital gains on property/investments, etc - These are things the middle class pays more than upper, plus the 20%+ increase in take home will pull alot of middle class into a position to earn off of these newly tax-free opportunities. Thats how everybody wins.
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
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The numbers are what they are-- factual. They are not from me, but from the Congressional Budget Office, and they have better access to the true data than nearly anyone.
"plus the 20%+ increase in take home"
No-- assuming that all employers pay their employees their full gross pay, the middle classes would keep on average 8-18% more in their paycheck, the wealthy would have a 26-30.9% more, and prices would rise 20-25% or so when the tax is added on.
Look at the quote-- BHI admits it.
Diskwin 3 years ago
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
Diskwin 3 years ago
2)It decreases the "well-being" of the middle classes for 5-15 years, while raising the "well-being" of the wealthy every year from year one. Fairtaxorg/BHI, table 11 tiny593htl
Diskatopia 3 years ago
For those on the fence about this tax, which I consider a very bad idea (mainly because it hammers the middle classes), I am posting datalinks (some from supporters OWN SITE) backing up why I think it is a bad idea.
1) It raises the taxes of the middle classes while lowering the taxes of the wealthy tremendously (sources: CBO, Table 1A, tinyurl 3gudvf, and fairtaxorg/BHI, Table 9, tiny 67cyeq
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Diskatopia - Can you explain how it hammers the middle class?
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
Easily-- go to the tiny url links I have provided in prev. posts, and you will see:
1)CBO data of the avg. effective federal tax rates paid under current system, and the middle classes pay roughly 8-18% (this %age includes apporionments of Excise, CIT, and employers' share of FICA. The top 1% of earners pay 31%.
2)At fairtaxorg link you will see the estimated avg. effective federal rates under an FT/NST their OWN research(BHI) came up with, and this rate is around 19-21%.
3) 8-18%<19-21%<31%
Diskwin 3 years ago
I missed this post before my last.
There's a big difference in tax rate of income and tax rate of expenditure. I still cant say I understand the "how" of those percentages you provided, but it seems like it closes loopholes for the rich, closes the loop of under-the-table pay, negates Payrole taxes which fairtaxorg claims is higher on those under $97K, esp. the poor, seems to eliminate tax-cuts for the rich and allows rebates to those in poverty. Seems to add up well to me.
MeanPokerFace 3 years ago
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The "by expenditure" table is, obviously, broken down by "expenditure" deciles and thus by definition (it is a sales tax with prebate after all) those who spend less will obviously have a lower effective rate, lol.
But anyway, look at the effective rates of those who spend $22k ($1800 a month)of avg. $29k income (line 6, table 10),-- they'd be paying an eff. rate of 17% under FT/nst, whereas now they pay an avg. eff. rate around 8-12%...
Diskwin 3 years ago
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The FT/NST would open massive new loopholes for the wealthy (buy a used condo in Manhattan, pay $0 in federal taxes), plus it gives the rich a huge tax cut-- compare the CBO real world numbers to those two tables atfairtaxorg:
CBO-- Effective Federal Tax Rates (includes allFICA/IT/Excise):
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Diskwin 3 years ago
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Correction: that should be "those who spend $27.5k ($2300/month)of avg. $31k income (line 7, table 10)"
But in any case, the "by expenditure table" is unrealistic (and, truthfully, more FTer fudging) when applied to reality, as can be seen by looking at deciles 1 and 10, avg. incomes v. expenditures. Plus table10 still shows much of the middle hit.
Income deciles are a realistic way to group and study a tax effect across a society, and table 9 clearly shows the mid classes being hammered.
Diskwin 3 years ago
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What the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "Nasti" really is is a huge tax cut for the very wealthy and a huge tax raise for the middle class-- got to THE SUPPORTING "FAIR TAX" SITE and look at THEIR OWN "RESEARCH"-- tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
... or be a sucker and a lemming and fall for the scam Boortz and the gang are pulling.
Diskwin 3 years ago
All taxes on labor and capital are passed on in the price of the goods and services produced by labor and capital. All taxes directly on goods and services have to be paid by the final consumer. What is the difference between the Fair Tax that places all the burden of the tax on the final consumer and what we have now that does the same. Much better to have no taxes on labor and capital and no tax that can be shifted to or fall on the final consumer. The tax on land values is that kind of tax.
ourearthhome 3 years ago
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Newt could destroy this idiot Fairtax idea in 30 seconds - he knows its a crock. But he also knows there are a lot of stupid people that are fooled by it.
Newt knows the federal government can't pay itself 800 cents a year -- much less 800 billion. He knows thats insanity. Since the government has to PAY it -- it CANT be income. Lunatics at FT count this lunacy as INCOME to the government.
Thats just the START of the fairtax absurdities.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
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Funny stuff guys.
Okay, so you don't believe Fairtax would the highest sales tax on EARTH? 19% sales tax is the highest I could find.
This lunatic Fairtax would be at least 40%, and possibly 75%-100% before it collapsed.
Listen, I HOPE and PRAY the Fairtax passes. I really do. Maybe after we all see what a farce that crap is, we can find a real solution. We need a new tax code that doesn't punish real work (not that I do any) and earned income. But Fairtax literally is a farce.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
What country has the highest tax rate?
Denmark has the highest income tax rate, with its top-taxed citizens paying 68% of their hard-earned crowns. The basic tax rate begins at 42%.
alittlechild 3 years ago
Wouldn't you really rather pay your taxes once, in one place, where the transarency is there, rather than over and over, where they are invisible?
You won't lose money - you will simply shift where it is paid from, and you will pay at the end of the consumption cycle.
But for Mark Douglas, I propose the following exception - impose the highest tax in the world on him and him alone. Just to be fair and make him take responsibility for his lame words.
alittlechild 3 years ago
The FAIR TAX is not the world's highest tax. The tax rate in Europe is far higher, when you compare apples to apples. The FAIR TAX replaces the income tax, so under the FAIR TAX taxes are EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY ARE NOW. In fact, they will collect more money with less effort, and UNTAX the POOR and MORE EQUITABLY TAX the rich. We will recoup the taxes from 1.5 Trillion dollars that are currently untaxed.
alittlechild 3 years ago
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Nonsense -- Farce tax would have its OWN problems -- for eg, since businesses pay no taxes whatsoever -- people would just declare themselves a business. I sure would. I would instantly be in the publishing and real estate business. I would pay no taxes whatsoever. So would millions of others.
IN fact, the incentive to cheat under the Farce tax would be much higher -- since you morons would tax everything with the worlds HIGHEST sales tax - including gas, utilities, car insurance etc.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
It's true there still IS an incentive to cheat, but the mechanism makes it much more difficult. So the underground economy of 1.5 trillion dollars will now be subject to taxes, where it is now water under the bridge.
alittlechild 3 years ago
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Estonia you said has a FLAT tax you moron, not a FAIR tax you idiot.
Learn the difference you complete moron.
Fairtax is a farce piece of crap -- its leaders KNOW its a farce.
Flat tax is a legit concept, its NOT a farce.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Estonia is doing well with their flat tax, their economy is growing 11%, and the tax rate has come down 6%.
I say we go for it, and we will eliminate all the fraud inherent in our current system.
It is the ONLY plan which untaxes the poor.
alittlechild 3 years ago
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little child -- are you mental? Untaxes the poor my ass.
You apparently are fooled by the rhetoric. Untax nothing. The POOR would have to pay the WORLDS highest sales tax -- on their rent. And on their car insurance. And on their medical bills. And on their food.
You morons should wake up. This idiot prebate is a joke. A poor person can get cancer too -- and have 50,000- 100,000 in sales tax on their chemo by this idiot plan. How does fairtax untax them?
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
No. I am not 'mental'. I am informed, and you are not.
The poor are untaxed by the Fair Tax, up to the poverty level.
I am not surprised at your misrepresentation of the facts, you are an anti Fair Tax activist with an axe to grind.
Also unsurprising is your rudeness.
alittlechild 3 years ago
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I just explained it to you moron -- fairtax is on rent you idiot. And medical cost, and utlitilies. ITs the fucking highest sales tax on earth you idiot. What the fuck do you think the highest sales tax on EARTH would impact people whose largest expense is their rent. Rent,utility bills, even car insurance and gasoline would have the HIGHEST SALES TAX ON EARTH.
Your fucking prebate is a fucking joke if the poor person rents, or has utility bills, or
medical costs.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Why don't you look up the word 'civilized' in the dictionary, see if you qualify?
Anyway, it's not the highest SALES TAX ON EARTH. Quit shouting, you're losing points and displaying your ignorance on so many levels we can't keep track.
alittlechild 3 years ago
lit child - you are informed my ass, you don't even know the difference between the fairtax and flat tax you idiot. You are an idiot about taxes. Who informed you? Dumbo?
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
This guy is on EVERY fair tax site...
Favorite word seems to be "Idiot"
James92802 3 years ago
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The epitome of the fudging by backers of the National Sales Tax can be seen at tinyurldot com/5axt4w, page 4, Table 0.
a table of data by SUPPORTERS of this sales tax.
1)Income for the top decile goes up, the bottom decile goes down.
2)expenditures of the top decile go down, expenditures of the bottom decile go up.
3) That Table defines the lolFAIL nature of the "research" behind this National Sales Tax idea.
Read their "conclusion" below the table for an extra laugh.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT/Excise:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
Even with the prebate, the "Fair" Tax hammers the middle class, not-for-profits, religious groups, and senior citizens living on savings.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Pay rent? Fairtax would put the worlds HIGHEST sales tax on your rent.
Pay car insurance? FT would be worlds HIGHEST sale tax on your car insurance - all your insurance payments.
Pay utility bills? FT is worlds HIGHEST sales tax -- on your utility bill.
Get cancer or other medical problems? FT is worlds highest sales tax on your medical costs.
Want a new house? FT would be worlds highest sale tax on a new home.
Want to pay the worlds HIGHEST sales tax?
Fairtax is 4u.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
What a crock, did you bother to include VAT's in your analysis of countries with high sales taxes. How about that most European countries have a VAT AND AN INCOME TAX!
Roxas42 3 years ago
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Newt is a genius with words. He knows the FT is utter nonsense, but he isnt about to piss off the FT groupies. So he calls it "interesting" and wants to "look into it more". I guarantee you, he could pulverize the FT in ten minutes if he wanted to.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
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Best way to get FT passed -- dont tell anyone that they will be taxed 10,000 dollars on a knee operation.
Or taxed 40K on cancer care and surgery. OR 90,000 dollars if they buy a new house.
Or 5,000 on a new car. Or that their grandma in nursing home will get a 1000 tax bill per month.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
ATTENTION!!!
MarkDouglasC & MybookDeal & TaxSanity = the same person!
How do I know this? Look at the profiles... same age. Coincidence? How about this: MarkDouglasC told me in another post that he wrote books. Also notice... he spams all FairTax video's. NOBODY can be that against this unless he has an interest to protect. He's IRS plain and simple. Nice try Mark!
denimblueindigo 4 years ago 3
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Fairtax tomorrow? What if tomorrow, you figured out nursing homes would be charged sales tax? What if tomorrow, renters found out they had to pay a huge sales tax - on rent!? What if tomorrow, you ruined the new house market, by making new homes pay a high sales tax? What if tomorrow, cancer patients would have to pay high taxes on chemo therapy and surgery? You folks have no idea what your own idiot tax plan does.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
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Newt knows the FT is a crock of crapola. There is no question in my mind that he is smart enough to know that. But Newt cant tell you morons that you are morons. But he wisely hedges his bet -- he wants to FIRST get rid of 16th amendment, on income tax. Newt's wet dream for years has to been to have ONLY workers pay ANY tax.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
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The Fair tax doesnt even slow down at stupid. It goes right to insane. Nursing homes, hospitals, new home builders, the military, renters, the car industry -- ARE GOING TO RAM THIS DOWN YOUR IDIOT THROAT. They wont pay this lunatic tax, they will get exemptions, moron. And so will a lot more. The real rate will be more like 50%. ANd thats just the START of the problems with this lunacy.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
haha, you're right about one thing, they won't pay for it. at least not compared to what they are paying in taxes now
chwparker 3 years ago
It doesn't matter. The initial revenue-neutral rate of the FairTax is whatever it needs to be to equal the current burden of income taxes on the whole economy. So if it needs to be 50% or 60% or even 80%, then that's how badly income taxes are impacting our economy and that's how much prices can be reduced after income taxes are eliminated and before the Fairtax is applied. Plus everyone gets to keep their whole paychecks and we get the prebate. That's a pretty damn good deal, imo.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
I'm a doctor in newtology, and I have to say...you don't look much like a newt. lol thanks for the vid
TightsandFights 4 years ago
Newt does make some thoughtful points to consider on the problems of the so called "fair tax" consumption tax.
grayboy61 4 years ago
Modify the collection mechanism, call it what you want, it is still government plunder.
grayboy61 4 years ago
Give us freedom of choice in taxation by returning authority and responsibility for local needs to the states where it belongs. If you like big spending and high taxes, move to a high tax state. If you like low taxes, move to a low tax state.
grayboy61 4 years ago
Cut spending by reducing the size and scope of the federal government (to constitutional limits) and we can replace the income tax with nothing.
Ron Paul seems be the closest to reality on this issue.
grayboy61 4 years ago
Too bad this might be the only thing he's close to reality on. He's really got some good points.
dyamarick 4 years ago
Eventially, the fair tax will become an additional tax, because the income tax will resurrect and we will have both! It is the nature of the government beast.
grayboy61 4 years ago
The single most hideous thing about the current tax system is the way it gathers enormous amounts of personal information on people. I would like to know how the "pass through" system works (so as to not tax poor people), and what kind of information it gathers on individuals.
trenchantmark 4 years ago
Once a year, you apply for your prebate. As I understand it, the application has your SSN and number of people in your household. Every month, you get a "prebate" check for the amount of tax you would spend on necessities at the poverty line. So if you spend at poverty level, you pay zero federal tax.
writeknight 4 years ago 5
write -- the Prebate is part of the bullshit/ They are NOT trying to pass this, its a fucking farce, the leaders KNOW its a farce, you might as well say you are gonna go to MARS every year. You have a lot better chance of going to Mars than ever seeing this shit passed-- its own LEADERS are hiding from hearings under oath. Its total nonsense
12FlyMe 1 year ago
The best thing about the FairTax is that it makes you conscious of and gives you control over the amount of taxes you pay, as opposed to the lulling effect that withholding creates. If the FairTax were implemented, people might really start realizing just how bloated the federal gov't has become, and would start voting for people who would truly shrink its size and scope. i.e. Ron Paul
DannyDorko33 4 years ago
Thank god he's not running for President. What a politician!!!
5cannerd 4 years ago
The Fair Tax is not the panacea a lot of Republicans are making it out to be. Far from it, it will be a disaster. Can you imagine a 23% sales tax???
Whoo69 4 years ago
I'm pretty leery about letting the gov't decide a sales tax rate for the entire country, on TOP of state and city sales taxes. That's just insane! The Founders never intended that. We only have limited federal sales taxes (known as "sin taxes" and gas tax) for a reason. Let the people in the various states determine their needs and raise or lower the sales tax on their own. Despite your arguments against the income tax, we're doing just fine with it, esp. considering Europe's high taxation.
Whoo69 4 years ago
The income tax system punishes hard work by confiscating the fruits of our labor while the Fair Tax would punish us for enjoying the fruits of our labor.
I feel our federal government should be doing neither. A small federal government limited by the constitution, prohibited from directly taxing the people, is the legacy the founding fathers have left us. Preserve Liberty, join the Ron Paul Revolution.
gsuitter 4 years ago
gsuitter- Aparently, you haven't read the book and don't know what you are talking about, embedded taxes would also be abolished, the ones you don't see dummy. Down with ron paul, we are at war and he doesn't see it.
Ozzy4eve 4 years ago 2
Retirees shouldn't be paying ANY federal taxes on their Social Security, which was their OWN money that the government took against their will in the FIRST place!
MarxNutz 4 years ago
They are not already paying a 25% "magical embedded tax". That is just the lie they are tolled to buy into this scam. And the average retiree only pays 15% in federal taxes. And you want to replace that with a 30% NST on top of local sales taxes.
investortownhall 4 years ago
I've read the book on this "UNfair-tax". I want lower taxes for everyone but not at the expense of raising taxes on one group to give to another group. A Republican lead committee said this benefits a few at the expense of many. And we sure do not need any more welfare Pre-bate hand-outs when a Non-medcaid nursing home patient paying $30,000 annually must pay an extra 30% NST under this plan.
investortownhall 4 years ago
Pre bates are from taxes you will pay and for everyone from what they will pay... you must not have got it.
chukmaty 4 years ago
The "Fair Tax" idea is a scam created by the Church of Scientology because they were at war with the IRS for not granting their cult tax exempt status. Google up the facts if you want to read more. OpinionJournal has a recent article that exposes the whole thing.
You idiots are falling for a scam made up by a cult that was founded by a hack science fiction writer!!
mhirtes12 4 years ago
That is a bald-faced lie... You need to read the history of the FairTax before commenting!
MarxNutz 4 years ago
That's right, fool. Keep insisting that your little crackpot tax scheme wasn't crafted by L Ron Hubbard's UFO cult. The truth hurts too much for you to believe, apparently.
So, how're your Body Thetan levels? LOL
mhirtes12 4 years ago
You obviously got your information from that Wall Street Journal article by Bartlett... And we all know they are NEVER wrong! The Scientologist proposal was in reply to not making the tax-free status they wanted. They've long since lost interest in getting rid of the IRS. I'd like to know how you think it is a scam anyways? Or are you just throwing the 'cult' word around like spaghetti to try to make it stick?
MarxNutz 4 years ago
What? YOU again? Begone, you fool! If you refuse to accept the AWFULE TRUTH that your "Fair" tax idea is just a Scientologist scam, then there's no hope for you. Back to your Mothership. Tell your Lord Xenu that you suck!
mhirtes12 4 years ago
Besides the fact that that myth has been debunked several times over, there is the fact that even if it were true, IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE DEBATE OVER THE MERITS OF THE FAIR TAX!
Ad homenem attacks are non-sequiters. They don't have any bearing on the validity of the argument.
Roxas42 3 years ago