Canadian NAFTA-gate: Obama did NOT flip flop on NAFTA

[jmkpns]

Lies.

[notchsupreme]

good , jack layton I respect how he put it down man it should have mr.layton as prime minister,,cause wit this harper is still dealing with Bush wit this Nafta.With the Clintons dont be fooled she still wants that deal..

[HCherns]

Many thanks for the reference. I agree that Obama's stance seems to be nuanced, and I particularly appreciate his emphasis that NAFTA has to be made for the advantage of Mexican workers as well as American ones.

Neither C nor O seem to have mentioned Canada's part in NAFTA much. Many Canadians are already disgruntled about power and water guarantees, unworkable dispute resolution mechanisms, and Section 11, and are agitating to get Canada out of NAFTA, or drive a much harder bargain.

[JRBeaman]

Yeah, reduce our capability by trying to force us all to be like mexico. Both Canada and US loses bigtime. Oberman is a hatefull ass-hole.

[HCherns]

I'm afraid that I can't really understand your comment--who is trying to "force us all to be like Mexico," and what Olbermann's reporting (this piece seems to have no particular opinion in it) has to do with anything.

As I understand it, both Clinton and Obama (and those even more opposed to NAFTA) are essentially complaining that NAFTA's environmental and labour standards are too low, and have to be raised, bringing Mexico up to Canadian/US ones--you have a complaint with that?

[idicula1979]

@HCherns NAFTA and other free trade agreements don't apply to other first world contries like Canada and England,or France that have ahealthy middle class and trade union policy and thus free trade with them equates to a fair trade.But when it comes to Mexico and other less developed countries where a business can just go and navigate through the rights of the union and working people thay is unfair trade and if you are ok with this it might as well be a race to the bottom for the working class.

[HCherns]

@idicula1979 The theory behind trade agreements is that it is possible to have a positive non-zero-sum arrangement, one that benefits both parties. I have sympathy for workers in countries with low wages and terrible conditions, and I don't think that it would help them to build high-tariff walls against their products. Furthermore, building such walls would also disadvantage domestic consumers, who would have to pay much higher prices to support domestic labour. (continued)

[HCherns]

@idicula1979 (continued) Trade agreements are very delicate trade-offs on all sides, a way to avoid the alternative--beggar-your-neigh­bour trade wars. I certainly would not advocate dropping all trade barriers against all other economies (which well might be a race to the bottom), but in the case we are discussing (as of 3 years ago), the negotiation of higher environmental and labour standards for all three members of NAFTA would probably be a win for all parties, *including* their workers.

[HCherns]

What exactly would Obama and Clinton want to do with NAFTA, anyway?

There is a lot of feeling against NAFTA in Canada, especially on the left. If C & O just want to strengthen environmental and labour standards, and maybe reform the resolution of disputes, they would likely get a lot of support in Canada; if they would just like to tilt it more towards the US, they may discover that the US doesn't have a lot of bargaining power in this, and that pulling out may be worse than the status quo.

[HCherns]

Jack Layton is not, as MSNBC would have it, "Canada's Dem Party Leader"; he is the leader of the New Democratic Party, often known as the NDP, which has never been known as the Democratic Party, and has absolutely no connection with the US Democratic Party.

(Generally speaking, the rightmost of Canadian mainstream parties, including the Conservative Party now in power, would count as considerably to the left of the US Democratic Party; the NDP is quite a bit left of that.)

[VenicDred]

Have you ever seen Canadians so mad?

This isn't right, eh!

[youngflymista]

It's a shame Clinton's Magic Memo from Canada trick worked in Ohio. This race would have been over if that never happened or at least if the truth came out earlier.

[egrimnes]

Obama is going to win over her regardless. All this has done is to keep her in the race a little longer forcing her to keep taking out personal loans putting her further in debt. Serves her right. Karma is going to come back and bite her in the ass big time.

[sosickofqpons]

I agree. She is continuing simply to raise more money in the hopes of bringing herself out of debt. The country and the public doesn't matter. All that matters is her ego and arrogance.

[JRBeaman]

Exactamundo!