The Real Jesus (DVD) Opening (1 of 10)

[Imaginefree69]

Why is this marked as spam?

It is on-topic and rational.

Or is that the very reason...?

[Imaginefree69]

The Bible is your ONLY historical source for jesus.

And the Bible says that humans are made of dirt.

And that snakes and donkeys talk.

And that insects have 4 legs.

And that bats are birds.

And that the earth is flat.

And that the sun revolves around the earth.

And that animals appeared AFTER man but BEFORE woman.

If the the parts we can verify are false,

how can we rationally rely upon the parts that are not verifiable?

[jcr4runner]

@Imaginefree69 Actually, The Bible says none of these things. It's your weird distorted interpretation.

[Imaginefree69]

@jcr4runner

I can readily produce scriptural support for each of these assertions.

If you think I have written something incorrect,

a much more rational and adult response

would be to pick up your Bible and correct me.

I'm sure you would...

if you could.

[Imaginefree69]

@jcr4runner Why don't Christians know the contents of their holy book?

Why do they assume they can defend and teach things they know nothing about?

The adult response to assertions which they believe to be erroneous

is to refute them with evidence or, in this case, scripture.

Or at the very least to ask courteously for the references.

Mere denial and accusations and insults are the response of a child.

Wouldn't you like to rry it the grown-up way?

[Imaginefree69]

@jcr4runner You said " The Bible says none of these things. " I have demonstrated that the Bible does say each of these things. And you promptly disappeared. Why don't Christians stick around for an adult discussion? If this was a science-oriented discussion you would be thanking me, knowing that when you learn something new is when the discussion is becoming interesting and productive! So come on, jcr4runner, show me that you are not just a reactionary, intentionally ignorant religionist.

[Terrybob123]

@Imaginefree69 yeah, this is definetly what you've been taught about the bible, it's not what it says,your making assumptions on false doctrine. THE BIBLE IS NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. how many times must the christians say it?!?!?!?!

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123 "THE BIBLE IS NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. how many times must the christians say it?!?!?!?!"

I gotta tell ya, bob.

using CAPS LOCK DOES NOT MAKE YOU APPEAR TO BE MORE RATIONAL.

Who claimed the Bible is a RCC book?

Not I; that is YOUR hobby horse.

And here's another tip-

repeating a statement over and over and over

does NOT make it more true.

So the xians may as well STOP saying it,

because nobody else even cares.

[Terrybob123]

@Imaginefree69 you missed the whole point that i was making, you were mocking the bible, saying"it says the world is flat" and all that junk, the bible does not say that, the catholic church said that, and they even went as far as killing people for denying it, claiming it to be holy truth, when the bible says oppositely on those things.

[Imaginefree69]

FLAT EARTH IN THE BIBLE:

Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a CIRCLE (Hebrew CHUWG).

Circles are flat, see any dictionary.

(DURE is Old Hebrew for "sphere", but Isaiah used CHUWG)

Daniel 4:10-11a tree that is as tall as the heavens

can be seen from everywhere on the earth

Matthew 4:8 has Jesus viewing the whole earth from a tall mountain

Revelation 1:7 says every eye will see Jesus coming in the clouds.

Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation all require a flat earth.

Well, either flat or bowl-shaped.

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123 The fact that I disagreed with you

does NOT mean I failed to understand your point.

Your comment was both biased, ignorant, and incorrect.

If you think I'm wrong, act like an adult:

stop pointing fingers at the RCC

and show me in the Bible that you are correct.

Whining and accusing are completely worthless.

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123

" you were mocking the bible, saying"it says the world is flat" and all that junk... when the bible says oppositely on those things."

Well, Terry, I showed you scripture to support every assertion I made.

And that seemed to dry you up instantly.

So come on, now,

either refute me

or acknowledge my contribution to your education and thank me.

Christians typically disappear when I prove them wrong,

and that is such an immature response

that I hope ONE, at least, will do otherwise.

[Terrybob123]

@Imaginefree69 the bible never says the world is flat, show me the verse, all i can find is isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle(or globe depending on translation) of the earth,"

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123 "the bible never says the world is flat, show me the verse"

I did.

I showed you several, as your next comment demonstrates.

Try to keep up.

Isaiah 40:22 says CIRCLE,

'GLOBE" is NOT an optional translation.

What religious folks have a hard time grasping

is that reality does not depend upon your wishes.

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123 "the bible never says the world is flat, show me the verse"

I did.

I showed you several, as your next comment demonstrates.

Try to keep up.

Isaiah 40:22 says CIRCLE,

'GLOBE" is NOT an optional translation.

What religious folks have a hard time grasping

is that reality does not depend upon your wishes.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 This is hardly for the forum for such a discussion, but I will try:

Dirt: it is not entirely clear how exactly God formed man but that it was definitely special in that He actually formed man rather than just speaking him into existence. There is a symbolism of molding man out of clay that runs throughout scripture. Perhaps he truly did mold man out of clay but changed the elemental makeup of our bodies when He breathed life into us. (I'll discuss this more later)

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "Perhaps he truly did mold man out of clay but changed the elemental makeup of our bodies when He breathed life into us. "

If you are going to make up the story as you go along

there is noting to discuss.

If we are to discuss the TEXT, however,

we must not change the TEXT.

That TEXT says that humans are made of dust.

Scientifically that is untrue.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 Snakes and donkeys: The snake is an interesting case, but it should be noted that it was indwelt by Satan and should therefore not be considered a normal snake. Consider that no other snake is reported in the Bible to have talked. The donkey was clearly a unique situation in which God temporarily gave one donkey the ability to speak.

Insects: There are good explanations for this if you will search on-line. In a nutshell, the Israelites classified the back two legs differently.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "it was indwelt by Satan"

That is the tradition of the church,

but the text says otherwise.

I am ONLY interested in what is written,

not in what people make up about it.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "Insects: There are good explanations for this" Of course. There are ALWAYS "good explanations. Having graduated from a 4-year Bible College I can tell you that a large part of theological training consists of learning to swallow large and awkward incongruities without choking. One of the best lubricants is, "It says that, yes, but it really means THIS." Nearly as useful as "Out of context!!" Another very common lubricant is to label all inconvenient passages as "symbolic!"

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "The donkey was clearly a unique situation"

Could you provide some EVIDENCE for talking beasts?

What with the flat earth and all

I'm not prepared to accept the unsupported testimony of scripture.

My grandpa once had a pet turtle

that played Edelweiss on the trombone,

but never with witnesses present.

It really frustrated Pops that no one believed him.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 Bats and birds: This is an issue of modern classification methods which are different than those in ancient times. It is a perfectly valid classification scheme to refer to all flying animals as "birds". It all depends on what criteria you use to classify.

The earth is flat: the passages used to indicate that the earth is flat are usually symbolic in nature. This would require a lot of explanation to address each passage, but the Bible never states that the earth is flat.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "It is a perfectly valid classification scheme to refer to all flying animals as "birds"."

Perhaps, but his is NOT the case in Leviticus.

The context here is 19 birds and one error.

Insects and mammals are dealt with separately.

In the KJV the usages of the Hebrew OWPH are: fowl 59, bird 9, flying 2, flieth 1

It is NEVER used for insects, mammals, or reptiles.

Only feathered BIRDS.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic FLAT EARTH:

Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a CIRCLE (Hebrew CHUWG).

Circles are flat, see any dictionary.

(DURE is Old Hebrew for "sphere", but Isaiah used CHUWG)

Daniel 4:10-11a tree that is as tall as the heavens

can be seen from everywhere on the earth

Matthew 4:8 has Jesus viewing the whole earth from a tall mountain

Revelation 1:7 says every eye will see Jesus coming in the clouds.

Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation all require a flat earth.

Well, either flat or bowl-shaped.

[Terrybob123]

@Imaginefree69 when saying circle it is refferring to the world not being flat. come on? Daniel is a metaphor, jesus' temptation was a vision brought by satan, and the world or earth can also reffer to just the biblical earth depending on the word. which is the east. revelation is also a vision, wow, you found 1 verse giving the people an idea of how far away heaven is, one vision brought upon by satan, and a vision of Armageddon. btw, every eye will see him, but the world won't be flat.

[Imaginefree69]

@Terrybob123 Your little hand full of off-the-top responses

does NOT constitute rebuttal.

Come back with legitimate arguments, if you like.

" jesus' temptation was a vision brought by satan"

That is not what the text says.

I just quote the Bible accurately.

I'll leave it to you so-called "believers"

to change the meaning of the words.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 The Sun: this is similar to the flat earth. These passages refer more to a matter of perspective than trying to convey scientific reality. To meaningfully discuss these issues here is virtually impossible given the medium.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic SUN ORBITS EARTH: "The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to his place where it rose." Ecclesiastes 1:5 and then it says THAT means the sun went UP by ten degrees. "Isaiah.. cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz." 2 Kings 20:9 - 11 "I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees..." Isaiah 38:1-8

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 Order of appearance: Your problem here comes from your presuppositions. If you start from evolution, then yes, there will be a problem. But the Bible clearly states that the world was created in a matter of days. With that in mind, it is certainly possible for the animals to have come before women in that a relatively short period of time would separate their appearance.

Evolution/Creation is another huge topic, but evolution has many problems of its own to address.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic Observe the sequence: Genesis chapter 1 Verse 11 God made trees (day 3) V21- God made the birds (day 5) V25- God made the wild animals (day 6) V27- God created man in his own image.. male and female he created them Now chapter 2 V7- God made man from the dust of the ground V9- God made trees V19- God made birds and ALL the beasts and ALL birds V22- God made a woman from the man's rib It's a direct contradiction. They cannot both be true.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 Given the nature of your posts and the medium in which you pose your questions, you are probably not really looking for a serious discussion of these issues. The point I am trying to make is that, despite the ignorance of many Christians, there ARE arguments for these issues as they have been pondered for centuries by theologians throughout the Church age. It really comes down to faith: do you want to acknowledge your Creator or not? And if so, are you willing to obey Him?

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic " you are probably not really looking for a serious discussion of these issues." Your assumption ignores all of the available data and is therefore, of course, erroneous. YOU, on the contrary attempt to brush these issues away with a few off-the-top comments and the repeated excuse that they are not susceptible of discussion in this format. As I have demonstrated the contrary, I hope that you WILL discuss them rationally. Of course there are ancient arguments. But no refutations.

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 It is not that you do not bring up interesting issues. The question is if I were to actually come up with reasonable and logical refutations, would it actually make any difference? I am sure that I could do the same with your worldview. Ultimately we would reach a point of impasse due to differing foundational principles. Is there a Creator? If so, does He have expectations for His creation? I cannot prove miracles just as you cannot prove life could exist without God.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic " if I were to actually come up with reasonable and logical refutations, would it actually make any difference? "

We will never know unless you try.

I think there is lots of evidence against the existence of god.

If you DID have some "reasonable and logical refutations"

I would be delighted to see them.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic " if I were to actually come up with reasonable and logical refutations, would it actually make any difference? "

We will never know unless you try.

I think there is lots of evidence against the existence of god.

If you DID have some "reasonable and logical refutations"

I would be delighted to see them.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic " if I were to actually come up with reasonable and logical refutations, would it actually make any difference? "

We will never know unless you try.

I think there is lots of evidence against the existence of god.

If you DID have some "reasonable and logical refutations"

I would be delighted to see them.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "It really comes down to faith:"

I prefer to base my decisions upon REASON.

The two are incompatible,

which is why Martin Luther said

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has"

and

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his reason"

and

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."

Or, as Bill Maher said, "Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking"

[morethanimusic]

@Imaginefree69 There is a point in which all philosophies must ultimately come down to faith. How did this universe come into being? Where did it begin? By what power do the laws of physics continue to operate?

Reason and faith are not incompatible, but there are times when reason simply cannot handle the truth because of lack of data, comprehension, or capacity (think theoretical Physics, if nothing else). Eventually you have to make assumptions or lean upon your worldview.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "all philosophies must ultimately come down to faith"

not at all.

The concept of science is to observe he evidence

and see where that takes us.

As opposed to religion

which assumes a conclusion

and then seeks evidence to support it.

THAT requires faith,

because faith, by definition, is the alternative to evidence.

[Imaginefree69]

@morethanimusic "Reason and faith are not incompatible"

Martin Luther, the father of Protestant Christianity, disagrees with you:

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things"

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his reason"

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."

- Martin Luther

.

Even the Bible's definition of faith makes it clear

that faith is for that which has no evidence.

I choose to be a rational being.

[NZSambo]

sec 25.

No education? His Mom grow up in the Temple.

[theseeker2k5]

Hello Youtube,

Everyone who is reading this comment, please click on my username for my videos I made about the The Truth of the World. I have found out what the truth of life is, the truth of the world, and the truth of God. Please, I really want people to watch and listen what I have to say. No more living in false reality, no more living in illusions, no more thinking there is no way out......its time to lead your life into The Truth of the World!!!!!!!!!

I love our Lord!!! God bless!!

[reginadelgraal]

Later, a fanatical ex-phariseus, certain Shaul of Tarsus, confused the two persons in only one, creating his personal "Jesus Christ".

[reginadelgraal]

John the zaelot, son of Jeudas galileus, died on the cross, not Jesus! Both of them stand in front of Pilatus, but only Jesus was processed by the sinedrium before, and then got freedom.....

[thisbetterworkmount]

i think its funny how some of the worlds most powerful/influential/rich people call upon the name of Jesus, this poor weirdo from the notorious part of the country, who became the least to become the most...i dont think that those rich people really know who jesus is...

[judytanchong]

Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Great

[gamersanonymous]

It's unlikely that Jesus invaded at Bethlehem. That's where He was born, not conceived. Probably Nazareth.

[lizazoon]

gamersanonymous :--That's where He was born, not conceived.--

To know that, you would have to watch the pigeons.

[wade12393]

if you believe christ is your god who was god before he was born, who was governing the universe while he was alive and how could he be killed????????????

[gamersanonymous]

@wade12393 Christians believe Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity, co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was Spirit before putting on a human body. Physical death is separation of the spirit and body, not annihilation. He voluntarily died and reentered His resurrected body. Having a body does not impede an omnipotent God from governing the universe. Consider doing some basic research to avoid needless embarrassment.

[jnkhd]

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." - 1 Corinthians 3:19

[jnkhd]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain

deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of

the world, and not after Christ." - Colossians 2:8

[Imaginefree69]

Aside from the unicorns and talking snakes and donkeys and the requirement to practice ritualized cannibalism and 600 year old goat herders building Titanics from desert shrubs we see that your god commanded his people to rip little girls from the bloody arms of their dead mothers and take them home to enjoy and to share them with YHVH's priests. This is the book you are basing your morality on? How obscene. "I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh" Says YHVH

[katdanmo]

Saint Mary had a great education, she ws born in a middle class family. She could read and write,which was a big deal in her time. She had many talents ... Nice video. God bless

[lesouder2222]

I can't believe that people actually still believe this nonsense. Clearly mythology . Don't let them fool you

[GreaterSolomon]

At 15 I desired to find out who God was and began to read the Koran. Practising the religion for me seemed void of a relationship with God but it had an appearance of godliness which gave me a way of life. I was empty and I struggled to please God.

One day God showed me a vision of hell and I was there suffering because i was lost. Hell is real. In the vision I called out 'God' and a voice told me cry out Jesus Christ. He came and rescued me from the torture. Jesus is the only one who can SAVE

[Jossher700]

Awesome testimony! May God bless you and use your story for his glory.

[Rijara]

I don't know about that. Doctors save quite a few lives everyday.

[Imaginefree69]

@GreaterSolomon So at a time you were struggling

with a personal crisis of emptiness

you met god through a vision.

Of hell.

No comment required, I think.

[jondulars]

The Bible announces Jesus from the beginning. 2,500 prophecies and over 2,000 fulfilled. Read online "Science Speaks" by Peter Stoner.

[rekounas]

You can all thank one person for having this myth still around in this modern age of science and logic... That mans name is Theodosius I. What did Theodosius I do? Well, he outlawed anyone who was part of the Roman empire from worshiping anything but Christianity. Most of Europe at the time would have been Roman ruled and therefore you have the myth growing in power with a perceived notion of monotheism. Monotheism with many saints.  How does that work?

[jcr4runner]

Theodosius made Christianity THE official religion of the Roman Empire and ended subsidies to pagan temples. But he was quite tolerant of paganism -- so tolerant that one Christian bishop excommunicated him.

I don't follow your argument about myths vs. science and logic. Metaphysical naturalism was an invention of the 18th century Enlightenment (which brought us the overthrow of morality and led to mass murder in the name of "anti-religion").

What does that have to do with Theodosius?

[rekounas]

Hmm, I thought I posted information about were you are able to rent this video... YouTube must have had a glitch and lost the comment. This video can be found in the fiction section of your local DVD store. It can be found next to story of Horus, Mithra, Attis, and Dionysus. Also be sure to check out the section for Zeus and Odin. Movies on Santa and the Easter bunny are fun fiction movies too.

[jcr4runner]

No. It can't. Horus, Mithra, Attis, Dionysus, Zeus and Odin are all dead.

BUT JESUS LIVES! HALLELUJAH!

So the DVD can't be found in any fiction section. It can be ordered from the website linked to above.

Thanks!

[rekounas]

So, if he lives, I am sure with all this technology that we have in the world today, we have recorded him speaking, have confirmed his DNA as being divine. Who knows, maybe it would turn to wine.

Him speaking to people doesn't impress me. Apparently spirits spoke to Mesac Damas, they told him to kill his wife and 5 kids. Should God stand trial along side him?

[jcr4runner]

I don't follow your joke about tape recorders and DNA.

Whose tape recordings and DNA do we have from the first century?

Are you trying to sound clever or just stupid?

[rekounas]

You know exactly what I mean. You said he lives. I am saying with all the technology around today, surely we could find some evidence of that.

Me stupid? No, I don't think so. I don't believe in ghosts, zombie Jews, or angels.

[Fakeslimshady]

Jesus Christ is great =D

What is the arabian music by the way? i like it

[zzzpzzzpzzzp]

I'm an atheist... please ENLIGHTEN ME PROVE HIS EXISTANCE please and don't say its the word of god i will reply ok now PROVE HIM

[FrostyIsTheSnowman]

Does it not say in the bible "Do not put God to the test"? If you want proof open your eyes Jesus is everywhere.

[wenwen1111]

we don't try to prove God's existence because He does not lie in the material realm but in spirit. But there are historical evidences, eyewitness records and the implication of intelligent design that points towards God. I emphasise the words 'point towards'. Just like we can't prove evolution actually exists because we can't see it happen in our own lifetime, but science looks that the evidences and observations that leads to a conclusion.

[Christisms]

Almost every Classical Historian with a PhD.

[MarkToTheSky]

A Roman historian by the name of Cornelius Tacitus lived about A.D. 52-117. He wrote "The founder of the name Christianity, known as Christus"Christ", suffered exquisite tortures and death by Pontius Pilate.

This historian was not Christian, and did not believe the message, but he confirms for you, both the existence and death of him. There's your proof. Not proof of anything else, just his existence.

[remko2]

You blatantly misquote Tacitus, Tacitus says no such thing.

And even if Tacitius would have said such a thing, it is only proof that he heard something about a person/entity called 'Chrestos', well I've heard about Santa Claus, I have read he lives at the North pole, is that proof Santa exists?, well, neither is the vague entry about 'Chrestos' by Tacitus.

[jcr4runner]

Tacitus wrote that the Christians were named after "Christus."

So the controversy of the manuscript alteration of Chrestus vs. Christus is moot.

There were only one group of Christians that were put to death by Nero and they were followers of Jesus Christ. This is corroborated by other first and second century sources independent of Tacitus.

[remko2]

Ah, a swing and a miss, that's still no proof for the existence of Jesus, I bet you could find a nice number of followers of Mithras in contemporary Rome, by your reasoning that would be proof of the existence of Mithras and of his sacrifice to the mankind.

[AmmorMagnusDoctorEst]

you will agree that IF there is a G-d, he has chosen not to prove himself (as making himself known would eradicate the value of free will, faith etc.)... also interesting that with all of our scientific knowledge we are not an inch closer to disproving G-d or knowing anything about what happens at death... a veil is drawn. Try refuting Aquinas' Summa isntead of asking youtubers to prove G-d to you, no ones been able to since 1274

[fruitofspirit]

ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!

[doctorw2]

he is the logos.

[mrspogadaeus]

This makes an absolutely great resource for Bible study for baby Christians - so well done, beautifully written and narrated.

[Milkybuns]

God bless you, Eric

[jcr4runner]

This is the first part of the recently completed DVD version with host Eric Holmberg.

"The Real Jesus: A Defense of the Historicity and Divinity of Christ" is newly expanded to include over an hour of additional materials. The total running time is now two and a half hours.

The first five parts are on YOU TUBE now. I may post parts 6-10 later on.

Order the DVD with all ten parts plus a bonus feature by clicking on the URL link underneath "ABOUT THIS VIDEO."