A guy gets stabbed and robbed in a dark alley. A few moments later, you arrive at the scene, he's bleeding, he can't move, he's asking you to call help. You look at him and simply tell him your fee. Being robbed, he can’t pay, so you leave him there to die. After all, he shouldn’t have gone in that alley, he should have bought an emergence button, he should have prepared. Firemen are already letting buildings burn because the inhabitants don't have insurance. That’s where you're heading next.
We have the best doctors and some of the best hospitals but America has a LOUSY system.
We are the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't have "universal heath care." The average U.S. cost is $7,000+ per person. Average cost in Japan, France, Britain, Italy, and Germany, is $3,500 per person or less - yet our overall quality of care ranks 32nd.
Some countries use government run systems. Some, like Japan, use private "non-profit" insurance. All have coverage at half the cost.
It is interesting to see a trailer that discusses how Medicine is about money and not about people in America and then find out that you have to pay if you want to see the whole movie "This shows that everything is about money
". Anyway, I am from Europe and here things are different because you dont have to pay if you need to go to an hospital while in America "I think" you have to pay.
@NermalsChannel crowding out of competition leads to profit, the problem is due to capitalism itself. Medicine can never be a free market, because when your life is on the line, you are no longer a consumer, you _have_ to pay.
Competition means you have a choice of whom to pay for service, and that sellers will outbid each other to get sales. The natural outcome of competition is reduce prices and increased quality.
Free markets allow people to find their preferable methods of payment, including: billing, insurance, and charity.
@NermalsChannel How can you make that choice if you area passed out in the back of an Ambulance? The natural outcome of competition is to cheat (ie prevent others from competing). I don't disagree that free markets have benefits, I'm saying when your life is on the line, you _must_ pay. Therefore the market is not free, you are not a consumer, you are a hostage.
The best solution is a guaranteed base of care with an optional purchasable addition (ie two tier system).
@NermalsChannel re1: How can I know what I'm going to pass out from before I've passed out? Insurance is socialism. If you have insurance, you have an inferior form of socialist health care. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why do you need others to pitch in?
re2: You don't die if you don't buy a computer. And cheating is always viable when there is competition. Capitalism is based on Darwinism, which didn't produce cuddly kittens, it produced sharks and tigers. *WE* made kittens.
@NermalsChannel "You really think you know better than everyone else?" Uh.... every other first world country in the *entire world* uses universal health care. A two-tier system strikes a nice balance between between government guaranteed and optional additions. In a system like this, there could actually be a free market and capitalism could actually work, because it is moved to optional, nonessential domains.
@NermalsChannel I have already pointed out that the U.S. spends far and away more money than any other country *IN THE WORLD* on health care, yet has inferior health care. Calling me an "asshole" because you don't like facts simply proves the point: You are either trolling, or you can't deal with facts that contradict your position.
@NermalsChannel U.S. Health Care is inferior to governments whose health care is completely controlled by the government. You cannot take this back. You have already acknowledged that it was inferior, unless you are willing to admit you are the troll.
@NermalsChannel I didn't advocate a Canadian health care system, I explicitly advocated a two-tier system. Your argument has been composed entirely of fallacies for the last four posts.
But, FYI, for all the issues you claim Canadian health care has, are still 30th to the U.S.'s 37th. And again, a free market is not possible in health care, unless you accept a two-tier system.
@NermalsChannel You cannot have a free market where there are no consumers. You cannot be a consumer when your participation is compulsory. Your participation is compulsory when your life is at stake. Your life is at stake when your health care is based on profit over an inherent right to life. Hence, you cannot have a free market where your health care is based on profit over an inherent right to life.
@NermalsChannel They are perfectly congruent. Your inability to articulate a single argument in the last 6 responses is proof enough of your complete ignorance to your position, the position you oppose, and the basics of logic.
"Pay or die" is a choice? lmao. This is your idea of a free market? This is what you have in store? I can't express how validating it is to hear conservatives agree that their definition of a consumer is identical to that of a hostage.
If you want a solution to the issues that our monetary system creates please look into the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement. We advocate solving these issues by acknowledging the root causes of them and offering an alternative solution rooted in the science and technology. Please take the time to look into this if you haven't had the chance.
@NermalsChannel "Central management cannot calculate on a large scale" says who? says you? Are you some kind of computer genius that knows everything that there is to know about resource management on a global scale, have you reviewed their info at least or are you just saying nope thats impossible and just walking away from it. Lol this monetary system does not work, and if your happy with it then so be it. But remember those who say things are impossible usually end up being wrong.
No I'm not. And that's the point No one can. That's why central management does not work.
''have you reviewed their info...''
Yes I have. They haven't shown anything that cannot be done by others already. They do not have the mathematical formulas that are required to run an economy because there is not way to know all the factors that go into it. Making central management work is not an issue of needing more or faster computers.
I've been criticizing current economic systems in this very comment section, so you'd see that if you bothered to look. A central authority cannot know the needs and desires of the population. There is no mechanism to do so. People do not need someone else running their own lives.
Statistically speaking, the US system provides a level of care for its citizens that is no better than many third world countries and much worse than most developed countries of the world.
This whole left, right, free market, public labeling is complete bullshit.
What I want is affordable, effective healthcare when I need it and I don't give a flying fuck if it's provided by a private company or a government agency. If we look at other systems around the world, the best ones seem to blend the two.
EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY IS NO DIFFERENT TO ANY OTHER INDUSTRY. ITS PRIMARY CONCERN IS PERPETUAL PROFIT & SUSTAINING ECONOMIC GROWTH. IT IS NOT IN THE INTEREST OF PRIVATE OR STATE INSTITUTIONS TO PRODUCE LONG-TERM CURES.
THERE HAS BEEN A CURE FOR (SO SAY) TERMINAL CANCER FOR YEARS
yeah...we shouldn't pay the doctors who heal us...and people with money shouldn't invest in things with a good return on their investment...it's better that they just keep that money and allow healthcare to improve by magic instead...
@PsychedelicET - that's because there is no viable alternative to profit-driven anything. Profit is necessary, without it there is no incentive structure and no way to signal the market that innovation is necessary.
@rickbar123 - healthcare is improved mostly by healthcare dollars? There is a lot of stock that can be bought in companies that create new medicine. Investors make these thigns possible, yeah Gov't subsidises a lot of it, but what that does is creates incentive to make unnecesary things instead of continuing to innovate...government slows progress it NEVER speeds it up....
@Graffight I had family over last wk. He is working on HIV in a universty in Phila, Pa. His research will get handed over to the drug companys for free. He got the grant from uncle sam......you.
@Graffight Your simple minded comment reflects your utter ignorance when it comes to the problems with US Health Care! European medicine is just as good yet everyone has access. America is losing its mind when it comes to profit first over everything! We can have profit & good medicine & higher pay for the middle class if we stop acting like you!
@Viracocha711 - actually no....it's not. There is a reason why the majority of medical advances come from the US. There is a reason why we don't have to wait for our health care and it's not bogged down from overuse. The whole premise of the free healthcare argument doesn't work, it's not sustainable, and EVERY country that tries it is suffering for it. Profit is a good thing, it signals the market that there is a need for a product and drives innovation without it...we stagnate.
@Graffight The reason why advances come from the USA is because the taxpayer foots 100% of the research bill. I work at the bedside, I have family in research. They are paid by the taxpayer.
@rickbar123 - That doesn't even sound true...where did you get that information....just because you have family in research doesn't mean that there aren't private research agencies that get no money fromt the gov't.
@Graffight - ahh i see what you are saying...when you say taxpayer, you don't mean that it is payed for by tax's, you are using the word taxpayer interchangebly with customer...so in a sense you are saying that customers pay fro the products that they use. Is that right?
@rickbar123 - yeah it's being outsourced...it costs too much money to run business in america...prepare to see A LOT more outsourcing until america decides to give business a reason to run here.
@Graffight I say the business class can manufacture overseas all day long. Lets get their fucking products off Americas shelfs. Let the business go live in China.
@rickbar123 - wow but...i hope you like not having any stuff...nobody is forcing you to purchase thigns made overseas...i bet that computer you're using has a lot of overseas parts in it.
@Graffight Try to buy American. The business class has done well with computers. Research was paid for by the American taxpayers and manufacturing went overseas. Shit !!! How long did the millitary work on GPS and the Net ??? Years, right ???
@rickbar123 - what does that have to do with companies outsourcing now...as it becomes more and more expensive to run business in america people will go where it is cheaper to do so. Taking those products off the shelf will not cause them to come back...we will just have to do without the products. Effectively you advocate sending us back to the stoneage...
@rickbar123 - "Oh no, the free market works great when the American taxpayer foots the bill and then gets out of the way." dude...that doesn't even make sense...what does that even mean?
@rickbar123 It's not a "FREE MARKET" if your forced to purchase goods and services or forced to subsidize them for another person. The hallmark of free markets is the ability to defect from abusive institution. Public institutions are still institutions but with limited defection opportunities for their consumers. Perhaps this is why the left dont' support markets in some cases, they can't make these distinctions.
@rayyf69 Wtf are you talking about winger freak ??? Corporations sole goal is to distort markets, make that distinctions. Yea, being forced into buying insurance is bullshit. The insurance companys would not have it any other way. A public plan for all would have put the corporation out of business. But the stupid fucks on the right that all have dinner with insurance CEOs every night did not want that.
@rickbar123 Yes corporations do wish to distort markets to obtain "market power" via rent-seeking activity. But the main way they do this is by engaging in transactions with the state to protect them from competitors and consumer defection just as the state is protected from taxpayer defection. The left ultimately support this model because they just don't understand their state will begin to act like a market itself and so they empower the very institutions tehy wish to suppress.
@rayyf69 The state is not protected. The players in the state can be removed. It's the corporations that are protected by the players in the state. It is a shame we are only given shit to vote for. Your argument falls apart when state capitalism is considered, more so if the state is under presure to preform.
@rickbar123 The state is under no pressure to perform because we cannot escape if its' performance wanes.. AT best we can wait a year or so to try to vote in a new admin and that assumes that the vote is totally focused on the performance of 1 particular institution rather then packaged with other goods and services of the state like defense, or social issues like marriage/ abortion. My argument is entirely contingent on the responsiveness of institutions and the signals we send them.
@rayyf69 Again, you put across the notion that the state has total control. The state pays the bill, the public does not lose the right to choose. With insurance, you lose the right to chose, up front in most cases. In addition, you get to pay for the ability to not choose.
@rickbar123 The public loses the right to chose an insurer and leave it on a second to second basis. They are stuck with what some % of the country voted a representative to create. An insurance monopoly.
@rayyf69 You have no rights with an insurance company. You pay what they tell you to pay, then they take 30% off the top. Then they do everything they can to bust the doc's ass and the hospital's ass to deliver as little care as possible to you. That's freedom ??? A gov payer system is not a monopoly.
@rickbar123 I pay what the state tells me to also or i go to the jail. Rights or not social contract or common law/UCC contracts i don't see any validity to the argument that a monopoly state/federal insurer is likely going to be more responsive to my needs then a private entity that can fail if i defect from it tomorrow. The state's failure to address Tort abuses already demonstrate it has no willingness to do whats n best for the consumer rather then to provide for judicial lobbyists.
@rayyf69 The state is not going to be responsive to your health care needs. The hospital will and the doc will, I will , the lab rats will and the x ray people will all respond to your needs. I think the Obama plan is bullshit. Those on the right love it. Obamas plan will make the insurance companys money. Tort has no place here.
@rickbar123 Public plans would force consumers to buy from private institutions amplify the profitability of holding equity in private health institutions. As we saw teh stocks of many healthcare providers rallying upon Obama's passage of obama care.
@rickbar123 then you would have a monopoly providing services and they would be insulated from your ability to revoke future payments if their quality declines. Does it make sense why some people aren't comforted by the idea of having an institution that is protected the consumers ability to defect ?
@rayyf69 So who is asking the state to take total control ???? I did not. The state pays the bill, the person decides what doc to see. The person decides what hospital to visit.
@rickbar123 The state doesn't pay bills, it takes money from an individual and then uses that to purchase goods and services. Insurance costs money because of pre-payment based on assumed future health conditions or risk. I don't want to be in the same risk pool as certain people who live certain lifestyles. I want insulation from them and their destructive actions rather then to facilitate their behavior.
@rayyf69 I am a RN, bedside x 15 years. CCU, ICU, ER, Burn Unit, Dialysis and Hospice. You will get sick, you will die, you will have little control of what gets you in the end. I see it every day. Old men that lived clean lives get the DX- cancer, no hope.
@rickbar123 It doesn't matter. The critical question is what sort of institution do you want providing you critical services. Do you want that institution to be shaped via the transfer of votes every few years while other unrelated services and products are summed into the institutional model or do you want these institutions to be shaped by constant failure and loss due to daily activities. I want to be able to hurt an institution if i believe it hurts me by revoking payment. it's that simple
@rayyf69 The hospital has nothing to do with votes. The doc's office has nothing to do with votes. I never heard a medicare pt bitch about medicare. They show up, flash the card and the system is open to them. I want a system that does not take 30% right off the top then looks for ways to decrease care. That is what insurance companys do.
@rickbar123 Do you see where this dialogue is going ? Yes i have payments and they are imputed into my taxes and aggregated with other purchases that are unrelated. If go to teh grocery and buy 50 products and i have no idea the cost of any of the items i need how can i , as a consumer, assess the value of the individual items? when my bill is 136 USD. Did i overpay for milk ? or underpay for it? I can never know.
@rayyf69 Listen, the Germans have birth to death health care and a shit load of other social contracts. They pay 48% of income to taxes. We pay 41% and get shit in return. The free market is great if you own an insurance company. For the rest of us, it's dog eat dog.
@rayyf69 I have no idea. But I know the second you get a bed in my hospital, your insurance company wants you out. They want to limit every test and short the hospital every dime they can. So much so, that staffing is always far too low and when staff rushes, mistakes get made. Pay your taxes, make the corporation pay their taxes. Limit imports and manufacture here. Everybody earns a living and pays their taxes.
@rickbar123 That is my point, u and i know i have no idea therefore how can i know if the state is providing me value for what i pay for. Your pointing to the failure of profit seeking institutions does not itself suggest that a public institution will not have the same concerns. Profit is profit regardless of if it's money or political capital. I want defection, insulation, escape and exit from abusive institutions, regardless of the method they obtain revenue, taxes or voluntary transactions.
@rayyf69 When you go to the hospital and hit the call light, if it takes an hour for the nurse to show up, you have been screwed. You leave greed out of your argument. Profit and greed are dangerous things when slaped together. The government does not need to make a profit, never did. The hospital is not a public institution, the gov did not take it over.
@rickbar123 Again relegating decisions to a state doesnt eliminate Greed r profit. If anything it can exacerbate greed and profit because of rent seeking and monopoly pricing. You stated earlier "I have no idea" As a consumer of a particular product, insurance, your lack of knowledge is not incentive for me to accept your proposal that having a public monopoly is a good thing. U havn't sold me. My intention is not to sell you, but to just get you 2 leave me and my money alone. I owe you nothing.
@rickbar123 Again relegating decisions to a state doesnt eliminate Greed r profit. If anything it can exacerbate greed and profit because of rent seeking and monopoly pricing. You stated earlier "I have no idea" As a consumer of a particular product, insurance, your lack of knowledge is not incentive for me to accept your proposal that having a public monopoly is a good thing. U havn't sold me. My intention is not to sell you, but to just get you 2 leave me and my money alone. I owe you nothing.
@Graffight Seriously, you are "inFOXicated"! Stop repeating Rerpublican talking points & look at the facts! Yes, we can still for profit health care but there has to be drastic changes! You repeat the MYTH that there is no waiting in the US...There is a huge chunk of the population that does not have access to top notch care like they would if they lived in Europe! There is a middle ground & we must get there! Many European countries have far better overall care than the USA! That is REALITY!
@Graffight MSNBC? NO, it is just the best way I know how to describe the utter ignorance folks like yourself repeat because all you know is FOX "News" & Talk Radio propaganda! I am an independent who looks at FACTS not political BS. Your comments to me & others show all you know is what you hear on TV & radio...And it is SAD!!
@Viracocha711 - interesting...well seeing as how i just got access to fox news yesterday and literally don't watch tv or listen to the radio where does your argument go now....i couldn't have possibly come to these conclusions on my own...no...i have to be a Fox news parot....address the arguments dude, who cares where they came from.
@Viracocha711 This on-high approach to the argument doesn't work any longer. The Left has been completely exposed. It's in fact very old news that the Left is intellectually bankrupt. There's no more trying to shame the Right and lord it over us. Your minds are far from superior. You're a pack of intellectual frauds. Your way of thinking is so passe, it's disgusting. The Left is not comprised of agents of Progress at all. It's comprised of utter fools who pat themselves on the head for nothing.
@StupidChicken36 LOL! And what are the super intellectuals on the Right planning for the future of America? Lets see...Imposing "Christian Values", tax cuts for the wealthy/Corporations, an aggressive foreisgn policy, teaching Creation myths in public school as science, discrimination against certain groups of people (Non Christians, women, homosexuals, etc.,) cutting funding to the EPA, NSF, FEMA & every other government agency...The "Take America Back" to the 19th Century Campaign!
@Graffight SO RIGHT. If there's anything wrong w/ profit-driven healthcare, it's entirely due to the meddlings of the Left, seeking not to regulate but destroy the industry, to cause a crisis that the Left can then exploit. The game's up with these socialists. And if they keep pushing their tyranny on us, they'll collapse more than just the healthcare system. There's an illness in this country, a form of mental illness, a love of tyranny, and brainwashed liberals evince it to a sickening degree.
@StupidChicken36 you present not one fact, and your position contradicts the fact that America spends more vastly more on health care, per capita, than any other country in the world, yet ranks 37th out of 195 countries in overall care. Per WHO Health Report. There is a reason every single other first world country has moved to universal health care except us: better results, less money.
Look, like I said, the game's up. We know what's going on. We know what the Left is up to. And I don't know how this is going to end. But the Left needs not just to be stopped but abolished. You guys are nuts. Dangerous. You've caused more than enough trouble. And this trouble has all been gratuitous. All the problems in the world are your fault. You're not agents of Progress. You're scam artists. And your numbers have gotten way out of control.
@StupidChicken36 I am not left, but what facts are you referring to. Perhaps, the fact US is the only for profit medical system in the modern world and has BY ANY OBJECTIVE MEASURE, the highest percapita expenses and the worst outcomes of any country in the modern world? percapita highest infant deaths, shortest lifespans, most uninsured, most medical bankruptcies, most iatrogenic deaths, worst satisfaction and almost the worst wait times. LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF AGAIN.
@michalchik I doubt every single statistic a Leftist recites about anything. It's automatic.
Isn't it an amazing coincidence that reality just happens to be whatever the Left needs it to be? Do you, as a Leftist, ever stop to think what you're doing? You're brainwashing yourself to think that reality comports with your agenda perfectly. The two are one. It's the ultimate in self-righteousness. I'd even call it a form of madness.
@StupidChicken36 Apparently the main problem you have with statistics is that you can't read. I am not left. (first sentence) The ultimate in self righteous foolishness is saying you can ignore the facts and anyone who offers contradictory evidence must have an ideological bias against you. And no it is not an amazing coincidence that the facts happen to disagree with your opinion, you are ignorant and brainwashed. The facts disagree with Commies, Nazi's and Muslim fanatics too.
@michalchik It doesn't work any longer, my friend. The rest of the world breaks out the violin music now, when you Leftists, and that is what you are, open your mouths and start flattering yourselves mindlessly.
Why can't you guys just snap out of it? You live in a dream world. And the rest of us are utterly sick and tired of your childish irresponsibility in that regard. It's socially irresponsible to think that government can do anything but work us over. You want taken care of, go to God.
@StupidChicken36 Uhhhh... I'm not "The Left" just because I disagree with you (as do citizens of every other developed country in the world). You need to seriously sit down and think about your views, "All the problems in the world are your fault"... this is a very dangerous way of thinking, if you can't even consider why someone would disagree with you, you just label them as evil in your mind. This is where wars and gross violations of human rights come from.
@angelwhite Such talk is highly ironic, coming from a Leftist.
Have you any idea the kind of karmic backlash your lying, scheming, violent, and hypocritical faction is setting itself up for? And how do Leftists even live with their miserable selves in the meanwhile? It's flat-out unnatural to love tyranny. Understand that as I sternly put Leftists on the defensive, I genuinely pity them too, as the soul-wretches they truly are.
@angelwhite Are you in touch with reality, or what? I couldn't be more sincere. And I'm giving you just a taste of the visceral rebuke that those on the Left are in for, when finally everyone one else gets up to speed in regard to what's going on.
What people really want, deep down in their hearts, is for government to LEAVE THEM ALONE. So you big-government snake-oil salesmen are ever going to get only so far in your tomfoolery, and then you'll be faced with a major backlash.
I do not trust politicians to handle my money, my family or our health. The farther they are from it the better. If it truly was left to pure free market competition and Govt didn't have a hand in it all (they do now) we wouldn't have this controversy. It would simply be another service provided by professionals. The Govt uses our emotions for votes.
If my son died as a result of a nurse making a miscalculation on anaesthesia.. I wouldn't feel right suing for millions. It wont bring my son back and it will increase doctors insurance premiums to the moon. I think this is one of our problems.
Great discussion. Doctors are just like any other professional. They study their trade, perform and should be compensated for their work. In a truly free market a doctor doing heart surgery would be paid what the balanced price was. Not these gross amounts to cover Med malpractice lawsuits.
True. And those on state health (fed) or medicare do NOT get treatment for even simpler things. We do NOT want the nationalized health care. It will not provide good care. Further, if you look at the states who have audited their medicaid programs in foster care (state custody) the fraud charges are outrageous. So are those for pharmaceutical fraud - in the trillions. Same insider interests and lobby groups.
What we need is a chinese medicine system in which you pay your doctor for when you are healthy, not for when you are sick. Instead of creating incentive to treat afflictions we need incentive to prevent them.
As simple as that. Though I'm still not clear on the details, I'm working on that.
The solution is LESS dependency on insurance companies, and LESS Government involvement.
John Stossel explains the root of the problem and the market based solution to healthcare in this video called "Sick in America": /watch?v=-v66o_X8F4I
@blackiron60 Have you seen rest of the world? See Venezuela, or any other socialized nation. How much medicine did they invent? Do they even have MRI machines? In USA, you don't need a lottery to see a dentist like you do in UK. If you have so much affection for those hell holes then why not get your future heart surgery or knee operation in Russia?
@meghaljani I've been to Russia, and even after all the shit they've gone through over the past twenty years they still pretty much manage to cover everyone. Can't say the same about the US even though they now have no less than three public health programs. In the end, I live in Canada, we have single-payer, and I'm damn happy about that fact.
@meghaljani STFU. Americans right now, today, have the worst teeth in the world, thanks to the cost of dental care. Medical care in Venezuela is free. Don't be so fast to kiss our systems ass. The research for the MRI was paid for by the taxpayers. I bet you 5 bucks right now that those cock suckers over at GE build those MRIs in Asia someplace. They don't need a lottery to see a dentist in the UK, turn off the Rush show.
@rickbar123 Then go to Venezuela and clean your teeth. Also make a documentary about Papa Chavez and get a free candy from him. And turn off your Rachel Maddow and NPR News.
@rickbar123 Typical socialist response. You cannot win the argument so ended up with profane liberal claptrap. I bet you will never be able to even touch me with your emaciated hands malnutritioned by government lunch. Bood bye.
I would be interested in seeing this, so long as it isn't a singular diatribe against US health care. I think reform is certainly needed, but taking either the British or our Canadian approach is not the way to advance, you need to create new models and use new ideas. I don't trust most of the health care my taxes pay for here.
@LeGioNoFZioN What if you remove money from the system altogether? Do you think doctors would do better if they did work for the altruism instead of cash?
@TheAnubisDrake well the only way to do that is to collapse the existing social-governmental structure, which would result in more death and anarchy than anything else, or you can flood the market with doctors by making med school cheap and making professors very poor. I prefer the latter to the former because with no monetary incentives the doctors working on us would be worse than the sub-par fools we are stuck with in Canada now.
@LeGioNoFZioN You are correct about the first part. As to the second, you think doctors working on patients out of compassion, altruism and a desire to work for the greater good would be worse than one that works for a paycheck and/or commission? I don't see it that way.
@TheAnubisDrake there is limited room on here, you misunderstand, there aren't enough doctors who would work for purely altruistic reasons, that is a fact I'm living with here in Toronto. Our Dr. shortage came about when earnings docs could make were capped in the 90's. So to make doctors more accessible and cheaper you have to flood the market with more doctors than we can use in order for the average person to ....
@TheAnubisDrake ... afford the quality care they deserve. to do this, med school must be made cheap, its a government run industry so they can dictate these things. but doing so means teachers, professors will make significantly less. the whole med school industry will be depleted by this action. at this point many in the industry will move elswhere for better paying jobs, which means we would have to rely on truly altruistic doctors to ....
@TheAnubisDrake train and maintain the quality in the medical schools, and importing some out of work doctors from Cuba and the Caribbean (many west indians having attended British med school). My idea could work, but it would make the person implementing the plan more unpopular than Scott Walker
This has been flagged as spam show
Awesome advice.Please Keep this good way. I recommend this video with friends. We are opinion leader, thought leader profiling service company.
Informatics Outsourcing
(Professional Thought Leader Profiling Service Company)
dineshseosharp 4 months ago
CIRPO IS POISON AND BAYER IS MURDERING PEOPLE!
papatoony 11 months ago
2:26 - 2:35 he nailed it
ultraverydeepfield 1 year ago
If I could only leave this country that thrives on the debt and sickness of it's dumbed down people. How is Australia these days?
derman077 1 year ago
A guy gets stabbed and robbed in a dark alley. A few moments later, you arrive at the scene, he's bleeding, he can't move, he's asking you to call help. You look at him and simply tell him your fee. Being robbed, he can’t pay, so you leave him there to die. After all, he shouldn’t have gone in that alley, he should have bought an emergence button, he should have prepared. Firemen are already letting buildings burn because the inhabitants don't have insurance. That’s where you're heading next.
wimscheers 1 year ago
jigsaw productions presents what?!!!?!?
joeynap860 1 year ago
We have the best doctors and some of the best hospitals but America has a LOUSY system.
We are the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't have "universal heath care." The average U.S. cost is $7,000+ per person. Average cost in Japan, France, Britain, Italy, and Germany, is $3,500 per person or less - yet our overall quality of care ranks 32nd.
Some countries use government run systems. Some, like Japan, use private "non-profit" insurance. All have coverage at half the cost.
goog2k 1 year ago
Comment removed
goog2k 1 year ago
It is interesting to see a trailer that discusses how Medicine is about money and not about people in America and then find out that you have to pay if you want to see the whole movie "This shows that everything is about money
". Anyway, I am from Europe and here things are different because you dont have to pay if you need to go to an hospital while in America "I think" you have to pay.
sansanbel 1 year ago
Comment removed
lllraverslll 1 year ago
Comment removed
lllraverslll 1 year ago
@lllraverslll
There's several problems with U.S. medical services.
The video talks about commercialization of services, but the U.S. does not run it like that.
American medical services are burdened by by government regulation and lack of competition.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel crowding out of competition leads to profit, the problem is due to capitalism itself. Medicine can never be a free market, because when your life is on the line, you are no longer a consumer, you _have_ to pay.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
Competition means you have a choice of whom to pay for service, and that sellers will outbid each other to get sales. The natural outcome of competition is reduce prices and increased quality.
Free markets allow people to find their preferable methods of payment, including: billing, insurance, and charity.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel How can you make that choice if you area passed out in the back of an Ambulance? The natural outcome of competition is to cheat (ie prevent others from competing). I don't disagree that free markets have benefits, I'm saying when your life is on the line, you _must_ pay. Therefore the market is not free, you are not a consumer, you are a hostage.
The best solution is a guaranteed base of care with an optional purchasable addition (ie two tier system).
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''How can you make that choice if you area passed out...''
1. Paying up front is not the only option. People do buy insurance ahead of time.
2. Competition means reduction of prices. Ever notice how damn cheap computers are today? That's from competition, not government intervention.
''The natural outcome of competition is to cheat''
Laughable. Cheating only becomes viable when in systems based on coercion.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel re1: How can I know what I'm going to pass out from before I've passed out? Insurance is socialism. If you have insurance, you have an inferior form of socialist health care. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why do you need others to pitch in?
re2: You don't die if you don't buy a computer. And cheating is always viable when there is competition. Capitalism is based on Darwinism, which didn't produce cuddly kittens, it produced sharks and tigers. *WE* made kittens.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''Insurance is socialism''
That's a good one. Please tell me how a voluntary transaction is socialism.
''Capitalism is based on Darwinism,''
O.K. you got me. You're either a massive troll or a total retard. Which one is it?
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel when you must ignore my points and your arguments devolve to insults... lol
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''The best solution is a guaranteed base of care with an optional purchasable addition ''
You really think you know better than everyone else?
You think it's possible for one person to plan the best means of service for all others?
Just because you like something doesn't mean other agree.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel "You really think you know better than everyone else?" Uh.... every other first world country in the *entire world* uses universal health care. A two-tier system strikes a nice balance between between government guaranteed and optional additions. In a system like this, there could actually be a free market and capitalism could actually work, because it is moved to optional, nonessential domains.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''universal health care''
Budget overruns and coercion of payments through taxes. Awesome system there asshole.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel I have already pointed out that the U.S. spends far and away more money than any other country *IN THE WORLD* on health care, yet has inferior health care. Calling me an "asshole" because you don't like facts simply proves the point: You are either trolling, or you can't deal with facts that contradict your position.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''I have already pointed out that the U.S. spends...yet has inferior health care''
No shit, it's inferior. That's what you get from a government handling it.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel U.S. Health Care is inferior to governments whose health care is completely controlled by the government. You cannot take this back. You have already acknowledged that it was inferior, unless you are willing to admit you are the troll.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
You're wrong. In Canada, (the often used example) is run by private firms. It has a single payer system.
The big problems with the Canadian system are budget overruns and delays from limited funds.
A free markets and thus competition control cost overruns and delays.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel I didn't advocate a Canadian health care system, I explicitly advocated a two-tier system. Your argument has been composed entirely of fallacies for the last four posts.
But, FYI, for all the issues you claim Canadian health care has, are still 30th to the U.S.'s 37th. And again, a free market is not possible in health care, unless you accept a two-tier system.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''a free market is not possible in health care, unless you accept a two-tier system.''
Your statement demonstrates that you don't understand what a free market is.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel You cannot have a free market where there are no consumers. You cannot be a consumer when your participation is compulsory. Your participation is compulsory when your life is at stake. Your life is at stake when your health care is based on profit over an inherent right to life. Hence, you cannot have a free market where your health care is based on profit over an inherent right to life.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''You cannot be a consumer when your participation is compulsory.''
''a free market is not possible in health care, unless you accept a two-tier system.''
Your statements contradict each other.
You must be a statist poe. Thanks for the laughs.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel They are perfectly congruent. Your inability to articulate a single argument in the last 6 responses is proof enough of your complete ignorance to your position, the position you oppose, and the basics of logic.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite
''Your participation is compulsory when your life is at stake.''
You can choose to not participate. Death is an option many choose, or if not allowed, they fight for it.
''..inherent right to life.''
Rights are purely conceptual, and at best granted by a state. Rights are no more than claims of how things should be. Not how they are.
Free markets are not guarantees that you will get everything you want. No system is. Forcing others to participate doesn't help the that.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel "Death is an option many choose"
"Pay or die" is a choice? lmao. This is your idea of a free market? This is what you have in store? I can't express how validating it is to hear conservatives agree that their definition of a consumer is identical to that of a hostage.
angelwhite 1 year ago 3
Comment removed
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@angelwhite
Not every medical issue is a life or death case, so even if your arguments held up on a risk of death, there's so much more they do not account to.
In the end, you're advocating fewer options, and particular only your desired options. That is the height of arrogance.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
If you want a solution to the issues that our monetary system creates please look into the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement. We advocate solving these issues by acknowledging the root causes of them and offering an alternative solution rooted in the science and technology. Please take the time to look into this if you haven't had the chance.
Meeks861 1 year ago
@Meeks861
''If you want a solution to the issues that our monetary system creates please look into the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement.''
Central management cannot calculate people's needs on a large scale, and attempting to eliminate money will not work.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@NermalsChannel "Central management cannot calculate on a large scale" says who? says you? Are you some kind of computer genius that knows everything that there is to know about resource management on a global scale, have you reviewed their info at least or are you just saying nope thats impossible and just walking away from it. Lol this monetary system does not work, and if your happy with it then so be it. But remember those who say things are impossible usually end up being wrong.
Meeks861 1 year ago
@Meeks861
''Are you some kind of computer genius...''
No I'm not. And that's the point No one can. That's why central management does not work.
''have you reviewed their info...''
Yes I have. They haven't shown anything that cannot be done by others already. They do not have the mathematical formulas that are required to run an economy because there is not way to know all the factors that go into it. Making central management work is not an issue of needing more or faster computers.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
@Meeks861
''this monetary system does not work..''
I've been criticizing current economic systems in this very comment section, so you'd see that if you bothered to look. A central authority cannot know the needs and desires of the population. There is no mechanism to do so. People do not need someone else running their own lives.
NermalsChannel 1 year ago
Statistically speaking, the US system provides a level of care for its citizens that is no better than many third world countries and much worse than most developed countries of the world.
kshackleton 1 year ago
This whole left, right, free market, public labeling is complete bullshit.
What I want is affordable, effective healthcare when I need it and I don't give a flying fuck if it's provided by a private company or a government agency. If we look at other systems around the world, the best ones seem to blend the two.
kshackleton 1 year ago
EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY IS NO DIFFERENT TO ANY OTHER INDUSTRY. ITS PRIMARY CONCERN IS PERPETUAL PROFIT & SUSTAINING ECONOMIC GROWTH. IT IS NOT IN THE INTEREST OF PRIVATE OR STATE INSTITUTIONS TO PRODUCE LONG-TERM CURES.
THERE HAS BEEN A CURE FOR (SO SAY) TERMINAL CANCER FOR YEARS
EVERYONE SEARCH “Dr BURZYNSKI"
QuantumGh0st 1 year ago
hey fora tv people, i like your work
FreeMarketHippie 1 year ago
yeah...we shouldn't pay the doctors who heal us...and people with money shouldn't invest in things with a good return on their investment...it's better that they just keep that money and allow healthcare to improve by magic instead...
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight That is an inaccurate portrayal of the alternatives to profit-driven medical care.
PsychedelicET 1 year ago
@PsychedelicET - that's because there is no viable alternative to profit-driven anything. Profit is necessary, without it there is no incentive structure and no way to signal the market that innovation is necessary.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight Health care is improved mostly from the taxpayers dollars. Docs should be paid and paid well, most are.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - healthcare is improved mostly by healthcare dollars? There is a lot of stock that can be bought in companies that create new medicine. Investors make these thigns possible, yeah Gov't subsidises a lot of it, but what that does is creates incentive to make unnecesary things instead of continuing to innovate...government slows progress it NEVER speeds it up....
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight Bullshit my friend. The government does not pay, YOU DO.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Graffight I had family over last wk. He is working on HIV in a universty in Phila, Pa. His research will get handed over to the drug companys for free. He got the grant from uncle sam......you.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Graffight Your simple minded comment reflects your utter ignorance when it comes to the problems with US Health Care! European medicine is just as good yet everyone has access. America is losing its mind when it comes to profit first over everything! We can have profit & good medicine & higher pay for the middle class if we stop acting like you!
Viracocha711 1 year ago
@Viracocha711 - actually no....it's not. There is a reason why the majority of medical advances come from the US. There is a reason why we don't have to wait for our health care and it's not bogged down from overuse. The whole premise of the free healthcare argument doesn't work, it's not sustainable, and EVERY country that tries it is suffering for it. Profit is a good thing, it signals the market that there is a need for a product and drives innovation without it...we stagnate.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight The reason why advances come from the USA is because the taxpayer foots 100% of the research bill. I work at the bedside, I have family in research. They are paid by the taxpayer.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - That doesn't even sound true...where did you get that information....just because you have family in research doesn't mean that there aren't private research agencies that get no money fromt the gov't.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight - ahh i see what you are saying...when you say taxpayer, you don't mean that it is payed for by tax's, you are using the word taxpayer interchangebly with customer...so in a sense you are saying that customers pay fro the products that they use. Is that right?
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight you are talking to yourself, did you mean me ??
rickbar123 1 year ago
@Graffight A lot of drug companys are not even doing research in the USA anymore. Guess what ??? It's being outsourced.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - yeah it's being outsourced...it costs too much money to run business in america...prepare to see A LOT more outsourcing until america decides to give business a reason to run here.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight I say the business class can manufacture overseas all day long. Lets get their fucking products off Americas shelfs. Let the business go live in China.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - wow but...i hope you like not having any stuff...nobody is forcing you to purchase thigns made overseas...i bet that computer you're using has a lot of overseas parts in it.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight Try to buy American. The business class has done well with computers. Research was paid for by the American taxpayers and manufacturing went overseas. Shit !!! How long did the millitary work on GPS and the Net ??? Years, right ???
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - what does that have to do with companies outsourcing now...as it becomes more and more expensive to run business in america people will go where it is cheaper to do so. Taking those products off the shelf will not cause them to come back...we will just have to do without the products. Effectively you advocate sending us back to the stoneage...
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight The free market workes better when the taxpayer foots the bill.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 - the free market works better if gov't get's out of the way
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight Oh no, the free market works great when the American taxpayer foots the bill and then gets out of the way.
rickbar123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rickbar123 - "Oh no, the free market works great when the American taxpayer foots the bill and then gets out of the way." dude...that doesn't even make sense...what does that even mean?
Graffight 1 year ago
@rickbar123 It's not a "FREE MARKET" if your forced to purchase goods and services or forced to subsidize them for another person. The hallmark of free markets is the ability to defect from abusive institution. Public institutions are still institutions but with limited defection opportunities for their consumers. Perhaps this is why the left dont' support markets in some cases, they can't make these distinctions.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 Wtf are you talking about winger freak ??? Corporations sole goal is to distort markets, make that distinctions. Yea, being forced into buying insurance is bullshit. The insurance companys would not have it any other way. A public plan for all would have put the corporation out of business. But the stupid fucks on the right that all have dinner with insurance CEOs every night did not want that.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Yes corporations do wish to distort markets to obtain "market power" via rent-seeking activity. But the main way they do this is by engaging in transactions with the state to protect them from competitors and consumer defection just as the state is protected from taxpayer defection. The left ultimately support this model because they just don't understand their state will begin to act like a market itself and so they empower the very institutions tehy wish to suppress.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 The state is not protected. The players in the state can be removed. It's the corporations that are protected by the players in the state. It is a shame we are only given shit to vote for. Your argument falls apart when state capitalism is considered, more so if the state is under presure to preform.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 The state is under no pressure to perform because we cannot escape if its' performance wanes.. AT best we can wait a year or so to try to vote in a new admin and that assumes that the vote is totally focused on the performance of 1 particular institution rather then packaged with other goods and services of the state like defense, or social issues like marriage/ abortion. My argument is entirely contingent on the responsiveness of institutions and the signals we send them.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 Again, you put across the notion that the state has total control. The state pays the bill, the public does not lose the right to choose. With insurance, you lose the right to chose, up front in most cases. In addition, you get to pay for the ability to not choose.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 The public loses the right to chose an insurer and leave it on a second to second basis. They are stuck with what some % of the country voted a representative to create. An insurance monopoly.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 You have no rights with an insurance company. You pay what they tell you to pay, then they take 30% off the top. Then they do everything they can to bust the doc's ass and the hospital's ass to deliver as little care as possible to you. That's freedom ??? A gov payer system is not a monopoly.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 I pay what the state tells me to also or i go to the jail. Rights or not social contract or common law/UCC contracts i don't see any validity to the argument that a monopoly state/federal insurer is likely going to be more responsive to my needs then a private entity that can fail if i defect from it tomorrow. The state's failure to address Tort abuses already demonstrate it has no willingness to do whats n best for the consumer rather then to provide for judicial lobbyists.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 The state is not going to be responsive to your health care needs. The hospital will and the doc will, I will , the lab rats will and the x ray people will all respond to your needs. I think the Obama plan is bullshit. Those on the right love it. Obamas plan will make the insurance companys money. Tort has no place here.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 And the payments ? who sets the rate?
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Public plans would force consumers to buy from private institutions amplify the profitability of holding equity in private health institutions. As we saw teh stocks of many healthcare providers rallying upon Obama's passage of obama care.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 Taxpayer funded plans would D/C the insurance companys hold on the industry. Oh well, good bye insurance companys.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 then you would have a monopoly providing services and they would be insulated from your ability to revoke future payments if their quality declines. Does it make sense why some people aren't comforted by the idea of having an institution that is protected the consumers ability to defect ?
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 So who is asking the state to take total control ???? I did not. The state pays the bill, the person decides what doc to see. The person decides what hospital to visit.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 The state doesn't pay bills, it takes money from an individual and then uses that to purchase goods and services. Insurance costs money because of pre-payment based on assumed future health conditions or risk. I don't want to be in the same risk pool as certain people who live certain lifestyles. I want insulation from them and their destructive actions rather then to facilitate their behavior.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 I am a RN, bedside x 15 years. CCU, ICU, ER, Burn Unit, Dialysis and Hospice. You will get sick, you will die, you will have little control of what gets you in the end. I see it every day. Old men that lived clean lives get the DX- cancer, no hope.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 It doesn't matter. The critical question is what sort of institution do you want providing you critical services. Do you want that institution to be shaped via the transfer of votes every few years while other unrelated services and products are summed into the institutional model or do you want these institutions to be shaped by constant failure and loss due to daily activities. I want to be able to hurt an institution if i believe it hurts me by revoking payment. it's that simple
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 The hospital has nothing to do with votes. The doc's office has nothing to do with votes. I never heard a medicare pt bitch about medicare. They show up, flash the card and the system is open to them. I want a system that does not take 30% right off the top then looks for ways to decrease care. That is what insurance companys do.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Who sets the costs of my pre-payments?
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 You have no payments, you pay your taxes.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Do you see where this dialogue is going ? Yes i have payments and they are imputed into my taxes and aggregated with other purchases that are unrelated. If go to teh grocery and buy 50 products and i have no idea the cost of any of the items i need how can i , as a consumer, assess the value of the individual items? when my bill is 136 USD. Did i overpay for milk ? or underpay for it? I can never know.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 Listen, the Germans have birth to death health care and a shit load of other social contracts. They pay 48% of income to taxes. We pay 41% and get shit in return. The free market is great if you own an insurance company. For the rest of us, it's dog eat dog.
rickbar123 1 year ago
How do i know if my payments are giving me a dollar's value for every dollar i spend or in this case are taxed?
rayyf69 1 year ago
@rayyf69 I have no idea. But I know the second you get a bed in my hospital, your insurance company wants you out. They want to limit every test and short the hospital every dime they can. So much so, that staffing is always far too low and when staff rushes, mistakes get made. Pay your taxes, make the corporation pay their taxes. Limit imports and manufacture here. Everybody earns a living and pays their taxes.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 That is my point, u and i know i have no idea therefore how can i know if the state is providing me value for what i pay for. Your pointing to the failure of profit seeking institutions does not itself suggest that a public institution will not have the same concerns. Profit is profit regardless of if it's money or political capital. I want defection, insulation, escape and exit from abusive institutions, regardless of the method they obtain revenue, taxes or voluntary transactions.
rayyf69 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rayyf69 When you go to the hospital and hit the call light, if it takes an hour for the nurse to show up, you have been screwed. You leave greed out of your argument. Profit and greed are dangerous things when slaped together. The government does not need to make a profit, never did. The hospital is not a public institution, the gov did not take it over.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Again relegating decisions to a state doesnt eliminate Greed r profit. If anything it can exacerbate greed and profit because of rent seeking and monopoly pricing. You stated earlier "I have no idea" As a consumer of a particular product, insurance, your lack of knowledge is not incentive for me to accept your proposal that having a public monopoly is a good thing. U havn't sold me. My intention is not to sell you, but to just get you 2 leave me and my money alone. I owe you nothing.
rayyf69 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rickbar123 Again relegating decisions to a state doesnt eliminate Greed r profit. If anything it can exacerbate greed and profit because of rent seeking and monopoly pricing. You stated earlier "I have no idea" As a consumer of a particular product, insurance, your lack of knowledge is not incentive for me to accept your proposal that having a public monopoly is a good thing. U havn't sold me. My intention is not to sell you, but to just get you 2 leave me and my money alone. I owe you nothing.
rayyf69 1 year ago
@Graffight Seriously, you are "inFOXicated"! Stop repeating Rerpublican talking points & look at the facts! Yes, we can still for profit health care but there has to be drastic changes! You repeat the MYTH that there is no waiting in the US...There is a huge chunk of the population that does not have access to top notch care like they would if they lived in Europe! There is a middle ground & we must get there! Many European countries have far better overall care than the USA! That is REALITY!
Viracocha711 1 year ago
@Viracocha711 - inFOXicated? really...did MSNBC make that up for you?
Graffight 1 year ago
@Graffight MSNBC? NO, it is just the best way I know how to describe the utter ignorance folks like yourself repeat because all you know is FOX "News" & Talk Radio propaganda! I am an independent who looks at FACTS not political BS. Your comments to me & others show all you know is what you hear on TV & radio...And it is SAD!!
Viracocha711 1 year ago
@Viracocha711 - interesting...well seeing as how i just got access to fox news yesterday and literally don't watch tv or listen to the radio where does your argument go now....i couldn't have possibly come to these conclusions on my own...no...i have to be a Fox news parot....address the arguments dude, who cares where they came from.
Graffight 1 year ago
@Viracocha711 This on-high approach to the argument doesn't work any longer. The Left has been completely exposed. It's in fact very old news that the Left is intellectually bankrupt. There's no more trying to shame the Right and lord it over us. Your minds are far from superior. You're a pack of intellectual frauds. Your way of thinking is so passe, it's disgusting. The Left is not comprised of agents of Progress at all. It's comprised of utter fools who pat themselves on the head for nothing.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 LOL! And what are the super intellectuals on the Right planning for the future of America? Lets see...Imposing "Christian Values", tax cuts for the wealthy/Corporations, an aggressive foreisgn policy, teaching Creation myths in public school as science, discrimination against certain groups of people (Non Christians, women, homosexuals, etc.,) cutting funding to the EPA, NSF, FEMA & every other government agency...The "Take America Back" to the 19th Century Campaign!
Viracocha711 1 year ago 8
@Graffight SO RIGHT. If there's anything wrong w/ profit-driven healthcare, it's entirely due to the meddlings of the Left, seeking not to regulate but destroy the industry, to cause a crisis that the Left can then exploit. The game's up with these socialists. And if they keep pushing their tyranny on us, they'll collapse more than just the healthcare system. There's an illness in this country, a form of mental illness, a love of tyranny, and brainwashed liberals evince it to a sickening degree.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 you present not one fact, and your position contradicts the fact that America spends more vastly more on health care, per capita, than any other country in the world, yet ranks 37th out of 195 countries in overall care. Per WHO Health Report. There is a reason every single other first world country has moved to universal health care except us: better results, less money.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite The Left doesn't recognize facts.
Look, like I said, the game's up. We know what's going on. We know what the Left is up to. And I don't know how this is going to end. But the Left needs not just to be stopped but abolished. You guys are nuts. Dangerous. You've caused more than enough trouble. And this trouble has all been gratuitous. All the problems in the world are your fault. You're not agents of Progress. You're scam artists. And your numbers have gotten way out of control.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 I am not left, but what facts are you referring to. Perhaps, the fact US is the only for profit medical system in the modern world and has BY ANY OBJECTIVE MEASURE, the highest percapita expenses and the worst outcomes of any country in the modern world? percapita highest infant deaths, shortest lifespans, most uninsured, most medical bankruptcies, most iatrogenic deaths, worst satisfaction and almost the worst wait times. LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF AGAIN.
michalchik 1 year ago 12
@michalchik I doubt every single statistic a Leftist recites about anything. It's automatic.
Isn't it an amazing coincidence that reality just happens to be whatever the Left needs it to be? Do you, as a Leftist, ever stop to think what you're doing? You're brainwashing yourself to think that reality comports with your agenda perfectly. The two are one. It's the ultimate in self-righteousness. I'd even call it a form of madness.
A Leftist is a fool for himself.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 Apparently the main problem you have with statistics is that you can't read. I am not left. (first sentence) The ultimate in self righteous foolishness is saying you can ignore the facts and anyone who offers contradictory evidence must have an ideological bias against you. And no it is not an amazing coincidence that the facts happen to disagree with your opinion, you are ignorant and brainwashed. The facts disagree with Commies, Nazi's and Muslim fanatics too.
michalchik 1 year ago
@michalchik It doesn't work any longer, my friend. The rest of the world breaks out the violin music now, when you Leftists, and that is what you are, open your mouths and start flattering yourselves mindlessly.
Why can't you guys just snap out of it? You live in a dream world. And the rest of us are utterly sick and tired of your childish irresponsibility in that regard. It's socially irresponsible to think that government can do anything but work us over. You want taken care of, go to God.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 Uhhhh... I'm not "The Left" just because I disagree with you (as do citizens of every other developed country in the world). You need to seriously sit down and think about your views, "All the problems in the world are your fault"... this is a very dangerous way of thinking, if you can't even consider why someone would disagree with you, you just label them as evil in your mind. This is where wars and gross violations of human rights come from.
angelwhite 1 year ago 2
@angelwhite Such talk is highly ironic, coming from a Leftist.
Have you any idea the kind of karmic backlash your lying, scheming, violent, and hypocritical faction is setting itself up for? And how do Leftists even live with their miserable selves in the meanwhile? It's flat-out unnatural to love tyranny. Understand that as I sternly put Leftists on the defensive, I genuinely pity them too, as the soul-wretches they truly are.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@StupidChicken36 Because of Poe's Law, it is difficult to tell, but I have decided that you are parodying the conservative Christians.
angelwhite 1 year ago
@angelwhite Are you in touch with reality, or what? I couldn't be more sincere. And I'm giving you just a taste of the visceral rebuke that those on the Left are in for, when finally everyone one else gets up to speed in regard to what's going on.
What people really want, deep down in their hearts, is for government to LEAVE THEM ALONE. So you big-government snake-oil salesmen are ever going to get only so far in your tomfoolery, and then you'll be faced with a major backlash.
LEAVE US ALONE.
StupidChicken36 1 year ago
@angelwhite If only the "rapture" were true. Then they would all be gone and the problems their belief causes would be gone with them.
derman077 1 year ago
WTF is this? A doc preview on Fora? Huh.... pretty cool!
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
herp derp free market herp derp
greenhell666 1 year ago
@greenhell666 Derp, derp indeed!
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
Comment removed
greenhell666 1 year ago
I do not trust politicians to handle my money, my family or our health. The farther they are from it the better. If it truly was left to pure free market competition and Govt didn't have a hand in it all (they do now) we wouldn't have this controversy. It would simply be another service provided by professionals. The Govt uses our emotions for votes.
nickvonmises 1 year ago
If my son died as a result of a nurse making a miscalculation on anaesthesia.. I wouldn't feel right suing for millions. It wont bring my son back and it will increase doctors insurance premiums to the moon. I think this is one of our problems.
nickvonmises 1 year ago
Great discussion. Doctors are just like any other professional. They study their trade, perform and should be compensated for their work. In a truly free market a doctor doing heart surgery would be paid what the balanced price was. Not these gross amounts to cover Med malpractice lawsuits.
nickvonmises 1 year ago
True. And those on state health (fed) or medicare do NOT get treatment for even simpler things. We do NOT want the nationalized health care. It will not provide good care. Further, if you look at the states who have audited their medicaid programs in foster care (state custody) the fraud charges are outrageous. So are those for pharmaceutical fraud - in the trillions. Same insider interests and lobby groups.
mamasuntwinkle 1 year ago
Hear me out here please.
What we need is a chinese medicine system in which you pay your doctor for when you are healthy, not for when you are sick. Instead of creating incentive to treat afflictions we need incentive to prevent them.
As simple as that. Though I'm still not clear on the details, I'm working on that.
S0chan 1 year ago
Shamanism FTW
TurboGC8 1 year ago
The solution is LESS dependency on insurance companies, and LESS Government involvement.
John Stossel explains the root of the problem and the market based solution to healthcare in this video called "Sick in America": /watch?v=-v66o_X8F4I
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
The most corrupt, bureaucratized, and inefficient healthcare system on the planet.
blackiron60 1 year ago
@blackiron60 Have you seen rest of the world? See Venezuela, or any other socialized nation. How much medicine did they invent? Do they even have MRI machines? In USA, you don't need a lottery to see a dentist like you do in UK. If you have so much affection for those hell holes then why not get your future heart surgery or knee operation in Russia?
meghaljani 1 year ago
@meghaljani I've been to Russia, and even after all the shit they've gone through over the past twenty years they still pretty much manage to cover everyone. Can't say the same about the US even though they now have no less than three public health programs. In the end, I live in Canada, we have single-payer, and I'm damn happy about that fact.
blackiron60 1 year ago
@blackiron60 And I am happy with my American system. If you feel bad about uninsured Americans, take some money out of your pocket and give them.
meghaljani 1 year ago
@meghaljani STFU. Americans right now, today, have the worst teeth in the world, thanks to the cost of dental care. Medical care in Venezuela is free. Don't be so fast to kiss our systems ass. The research for the MRI was paid for by the taxpayers. I bet you 5 bucks right now that those cock suckers over at GE build those MRIs in Asia someplace. They don't need a lottery to see a dentist in the UK, turn off the Rush show.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Then go to Venezuela and clean your teeth. Also make a documentary about Papa Chavez and get a free candy from him. And turn off your Rachel Maddow and NPR News.
meghaljani 1 year ago
@meghaljani Maybe we will meet some day and I can knock your teeth out. Then you can cry to the cops about it like pussy you are.
rickbar123 1 year ago
@rickbar123 Typical socialist response. You cannot win the argument so ended up with profane liberal claptrap. I bet you will never be able to even touch me with your emaciated hands malnutritioned by government lunch. Bood bye.
meghaljani 1 year ago
I would be interested in seeing this, so long as it isn't a singular diatribe against US health care. I think reform is certainly needed, but taking either the British or our Canadian approach is not the way to advance, you need to create new models and use new ideas. I don't trust most of the health care my taxes pay for here.
LeGioNoFZioN 1 year ago
@LeGioNoFZioN What if you remove money from the system altogether? Do you think doctors would do better if they did work for the altruism instead of cash?
TheAnubisDrake 1 year ago
@TheAnubisDrake Do you honestly think a person would undergo years of intensive medical training to work for free?
BJ219 1 year ago
@TheAnubisDrake well the only way to do that is to collapse the existing social-governmental structure, which would result in more death and anarchy than anything else, or you can flood the market with doctors by making med school cheap and making professors very poor. I prefer the latter to the former because with no monetary incentives the doctors working on us would be worse than the sub-par fools we are stuck with in Canada now.
LeGioNoFZioN 1 year ago
@LeGioNoFZioN You are correct about the first part. As to the second, you think doctors working on patients out of compassion, altruism and a desire to work for the greater good would be worse than one that works for a paycheck and/or commission? I don't see it that way.
TheAnubisDrake 1 year ago
@TheAnubisDrake there is limited room on here, you misunderstand, there aren't enough doctors who would work for purely altruistic reasons, that is a fact I'm living with here in Toronto. Our Dr. shortage came about when earnings docs could make were capped in the 90's. So to make doctors more accessible and cheaper you have to flood the market with more doctors than we can use in order for the average person to ....
LeGioNoFZioN 1 year ago
@TheAnubisDrake ... afford the quality care they deserve. to do this, med school must be made cheap, its a government run industry so they can dictate these things. but doing so means teachers, professors will make significantly less. the whole med school industry will be depleted by this action. at this point many in the industry will move elswhere for better paying jobs, which means we would have to rely on truly altruistic doctors to ....
LeGioNoFZioN 1 year ago
@TheAnubisDrake train and maintain the quality in the medical schools, and importing some out of work doctors from Cuba and the Caribbean (many west indians having attended British med school). My idea could work, but it would make the person implementing the plan more unpopular than Scott Walker
LeGioNoFZioN 1 year ago