I would like to say that Poland had the biggest Jewish population in Europe before the War, was the the result of our Antisemitism? I don't think so! Poland has the biggest amount of Righteous Among Nations, created the biggest anti-nazi underground movement in occupied Europe, had to deal with Nazis and Soviets, created ZEGOTA the only government scheme helping jews, and now other countries in Europe that collaborated with Germany, packed all the Jews to trains are trying to blame us..shame
and, moxham, it's easy to obtain an opinion on jews in poland and then self-righteously pilllory the poles. if you go to any market in what is called israel and ask tradesmen or customers about palestinians (who lost their country to the jews), you will get much more hateful and violence gloryfying comments. but for ppl like you still the jews are the victim then. when i was younger and more stupid i also excused the jews from anything and considered them the eternal innocent victim.
@zobielamouche1 I've dealt with this argument(?) many times before. Actually it's one reason for my postings. It's like saying two wrongs make a right. Well, they don't. If you can't think about the Holocaust without thinking about Israeli aggression toward the Palestinians, or vice versa, your powers of reasoning are probably not very strong. The one in no way excuses the other, although they are related. (The State of Israel is bound to be paranoid about the idea of another holocaust!)
@zobielamouche1 Anyhow I am not pillorying the Poles, at least not unless all Poles are hypocritical anti-Semites, which evidently not all of them are. My gripe is not with Poland or the Poles. It's with nationalism, racism, anti-Semitism, etc., with the denial of them and with all the stupid childish excuses that anyone ever makes for them. I feel the same way about the British National Party, for instance, because generally it wants to exclude Poles et al. from my country.
Guy’s life is not black and white. Many Jews were good towards Poland, we were home for the biggest European Jewish Population for hundreds of years, it means something right? And we had bad Jews, as we had bad poles, lets remember the good times, lets remember Zegota, Irena Sendler, Jan Korczak, beautiful stories of ordinary people heroism! Poles saved Jews and poles killed Jews, in Israel you have Israelis killing Palestinians and Israelis helping Palestinians, life is not black and white!
@POWROTTATY poucz sie histori, Polska w swojej swietnosci byla centrum wielu kultur i wielu narodowosci. To co teraz slyszysz to post komunistyczny, schizofreniczny belkot!
To ty poucz się Historię a nie bajki! Polska była centrum wielu kultur i narodowości to dlatego że później dostała wpierdol! Polska kilka set lat temu, miejsce gdzie obcokrajowce szmaty rządzili i mieli Polskie interesy w dupę! Lepiej byłoby Polski Imperator niż elekcję obcokrajowego brudasa jako króla Polski!
Żaden Polak nie zabił pajaca, to właśnie żydzi (nkwd, stalin, hitler i tak dalej) zabiljali Polaków!
POLSKA TYLKO DLA POLAKÓW (Lechicki haplogrup R1a)!
@POWROTTATY aha czyli pijactwo i zabawy polskiej szlachty i liberum veto nie ma tu nic do gadania?! Widzisz tylko cudze bledy.....Polak nie zabil pajaca? Co to znaczy? Co chcesz przekazac? Mamy duzo na sumieniu tylko w szkole powiedza ci tylko o 1410r i jak zawsze bylismy biedni i pokrzywdzeni....
Kiszczak, Jaruzelski i milicja strzelajaca do robotnikow to tez Polacy a nie Zydzi, wiec o co ci chodzi ze Polak nie zabija? Mordercy Popiluszki to tez zydzi? Zyjesz w paranoi, zamiast szczesciu!
@POWROTTATY You're going to identify the Polish nation with a haplogroup? And one that is common everywhere from Scandinavia to the Indian Subcontinent? Really?! So what did being Polish mean, say, 100 years ago when nobody knew about the haplogroups? Also, R1a is passed only from father to son, while, traditionally, Jewish identity comes from the mother. So someone could easily be Polish and Jewish. Just as someone could have two non-Jewish Polish parents and convert to Judaism. Try harder.
@POWROTTATY Being Polish (or Slavic or English or British or Brazilian...) is such a vague concept that really you can define it however you like. If it were really such a clearly defined thing, there would be no debate. But to connect it with a haplogroup seems ridiculous to me. Nobody gets up in the morning and pledges to fight to the death for a haplogroup, especially one that exists across whole big areas of Eurasia.
@RussMoxham you talk so much yet still show little knowledge.....nationality is not a vague concept.... like it or not it's just another crucial step in history of society and human civilization... talk less read more...that's my advice
@POWROTTATY Also, R1a is older than the Slavs and does not separate the Poles from other Slavs or from other groups who have inherited it--so how can it help you define who is Polish and who is not?
R1a isn't older than Slavic People, R1a is Slavic! Polanders are who they are, like every Slavic : unique. Define them is a lot of things not just appearence.
@POWROTTATY You may be talking about a particular subgroup of R1a, but R1a in general exists in native populations everywhere from Scandinavia to the Indian Subcontinent. It is clearly older than the Slavic languages and Slavic identity. Anyhow it only passes from father to son and so it says nothing about Polish mothers/women or what it means to be one. Also, maybe I misunderstand you: are you saying Poles are unique because they are like other Slavs? How does that work?
@POWROTTATY Actually most of the academics in the area believe R1a (R1a1a) has been in Asia thousands of years longer than in Central/Eastern Europe. The general academic view is that if R1a originated in either Asia or Europe, it probably originated in Asia. Either that or it emerged in both independently--thousands of years before the Polish nation, language or state. And, again, it passes only from male to male; even if it were 100% understood it could only tell half the story.
@POWROTTATY Also, a study by DM Behar, MG Thomas, K Skorecki et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics (October 2003) found that R1a (R1a1a) was present in more than 50% of male Ashkenazy (basically Central/Eastern European) Levite JEWS!! Even if they are all descended from one European male and the rest of the original community was Middle Eastern, apparently most males in that particular Jewish community exhibit the R1a haplogroup mutation that you say shows Polish/Slavic heritage!
@RussMoxham Poles, Belorussians, Ukrainians and Russians share tha same genetics, scientists discovered this. Sometimes I have a problem in seeing if a person is Pol, Rus, Ukrainian or any other Slavic group. Know why? Because they are the same originally.
@POWROTTATY Probably every country and nation in the world has someone among its number saying it and it has been chosen? That doesn't make any of them right. Actually it probably suggests that anyone who says such a thing is wrong (perhaps even stupid). Chosen by what or whom, anyway? God?! I think I must have missed that passage in The Bible :)
@POWROTTATY Well, if I understand that statement at all (he=Poland?!), then it's no big revelation. All member states try to get the most advantage possible from the EU. But you don't get to join the EU and exclude all foreigners. We have plenty of Poles here in Britain (though not as many as we had until 2008) and as far as I'm concerned they're generally welcome.
@zobielamouche1 Thanks for the comment, but I would like some more detail and/or analysis from you if possible. How have Jews plagued (non-Jewish) Poles? Do you think Jewish behaviour toward Poles has some effect on the acceptability or unacceptability of the Holocaust? On the acceptability or unacceptability of judging (prejudging) people just for being Jewish? I don't think belonging to a group that has some annoying members is punishable by death in Poland.
@RussMoxham if you belief that one side is solely the lamb and the other side solely the wolf, you will regard/watch the reality under this assumption and perceive it as a confirmation of your belief.
@zobielamouche1 Well, actually, that is more or less the argument I put to those who deny the severity of what happened to so many Jews (and Roma, Slavs, et al.) in the camps. The fact remains that in most countries, cultures, civilisations and moral systems, the death penalty has not been applicable to the 'crime' of belonging to a particular religious, ethnic or national group, regardless of the actions of the individual. You have to have a damn good reason to kill strangers. I am listening.
@RussMoxham you don't get the point. poles (and other "goyim") are not always the perpetrators and jews not always the victims. that means that violence/killing wasn't always commited by the one on the others but also the other way round. you just don't see that because of the "glasses" you see the world through.
Jews had collaborated with Soviets on massive scale before and after the WWII.
They also actively participated in extermination of Poles as members of Soviet NKVD.
Those who escaped to the east before advancing Nazi troops were back as Judges, Prosecutors and members of Secret Police. Lookup General Emil Fieldorf and Helena Wolinska.
Poles have a lot of reasons to dislike Jews and the history is not black and white my friend.
@polonophobia Until you can give me all the names and all the personal details of all the Jews you are talking about (good luck with that), it will remain clear that you are generalising and therefore that your claims have no logical justification. 'Jews', all Jews, did not do these things--any of these things--any more than Germans, all Germans, committed war crimes in the Second World War or any more than Poles, all Poles, have bad personal hygiene as so many US jokes unfairly suggest.
@rationalatheist100 I like everyone until I have cause to dislike them. That seems rational to me! But thank you for showing that there is a difference between Jews and Israel, or between Jews and government action, etc. Not everybody even sees that!
State of Izrael is pure aniysemitic state and i hate every anisemitic organization.Palestynien are semitic people ! Do not make wars and free palestinien from gettos like getto Gaza.Are getto cool to you?Do you think you better ?
@rationalatheist100 I'm not Jewish. Because I don't hate Jews, people think I must be Jewish. I think that's sad. Someone can say (s)he hates people and still be human! Also, maybe calling Israel and/or Jews Antisemitic sounds smart to you or something, but at best it's... I don't know... maybe childish. If things in the Middle East were so easy, there would be no problem! I have already said there are Orthodox Jews in Israel who do not accept the State of Israel and who refuse to speak Hebrew.
6 milion Polish people,and 32milion Slaves was wipe out in IIWW.Holocaust started in 1941.Before Germans treat the Jews same as today Jews tread the palestynien.Holocaust happen only becouse Germens was as stuped as Jews today.
@rationalatheist100 Again, it's important to see the differences between Jews/Judaism and Israel. Not all Jews accept Israeli policy. Many say Israel will not exist until the Messiah/Moshiach comes. Many don't see what happens to Palestinians. As for Slavs--yes, too many died in the war. (One death is too many.) But 32 million?! Many were soldiers anyway--unlike most of the Jews, Gypsies, etc. who died. And what happened to Slavs does not change what happened to Jews. People are people.
@Psylocibowy Slaves are people in Poland , Russia Ukrain Bialorissia . 57 milion people was wipe out because Germany and Japan went for their Promesed Land
@rationalatheist100 I'm not sure I understand the question. I think it is sad that the Semitic peoples in the Middle East have grown so far apart. I also wish the State of Israel were not so aggressive toward Palestinians in general. But nothing Israel does to Palestinians can justify the Holocaust or denial of the Holocaust. These are separate issues. There are Jews in Israel who do not recognise Israel or Hebrew, and Israel's defensive (aggressive) attitude is partly a result of the Holocaust.
I think the main question which nobody's asking is - why was there such a huge number of Jews and Muslims living in Poland for nearly 400 years while the entire Europe was trying to rid of them?
Well, as unfortunate as it is, they don't teach this in schools, but Poland was the first country in this region to declare freedom of religion along with the first nation to have a Ministry of Education... something that didn't sit well with their neighbors.
@RM It should not be forgotten that some people of Jewish descent have a very patchy career with regard to mass murder themselves. Most notably, but not only, Lazar Kaganovich who is credited with the destruction of 4-10million Ukranians in "the single most efficient killing of humans in history". It's also accepted that the NKVD for much of this early time was a "career opportunity" for many Jews who formed a significant upper cadre.
This event preceded the holocaust, but is almost unknown.
@smitty1863 Well, on a simplistic level, I'd say that an *sshole is an *sshole--that it doesn't matter to me whether (s)he is a Jewish one or not and that it probably shouldn't matter as much to a lot of other people either! But I appreciate that this all plays a part in people's all-important perceptions and the remarks are welcome here--thanks.
@RM You seem like a right thinking person who is rightly appalled by the fate that befell the Jewish population of Europe. However it would be wrong to think that only Jews were persecuted and look at the Holocaust as a seperate event to the other horrors of the 20th century - which is the way we are taught to look at this event. I further do not believe Jews should be thought of in stereotypical terms as an oppressed minority always on the brink of persecution.
@smitty1863 Thank you. My concern is precisely that, rather than viewing every victim as a human, people belonging to non-Jewish groups that were affected (and in many cases decimated) tend to view their own groups' suffering as different from and often more important than that of Jews. (Jews who do the same thing in reverse are no better, I suppose.) There's a tribalism that comes into it that ought to seem ridiculous in the light of something fundamental like extermination.
@smitty1863 that is right, it is very sad what has happened to them, but the same hapend to poles and all peoples around the globe in that time period (wo2), besides not talking about wo2 now, but before wo2, most people hated jews for treating the natives of their own country as a minority, this is thruth, for example my grandma had to walk 20 miles to school on here bare feet because a jew bought a school(witch was not possible to most of the poles at that time)...
@VSML0C0POLAK and threw all the children out of the school and replaced them with jewish children... no poles allowed... they where really annoying people at that time and they made life a lot of harsher for poles in poland..
i can only imagine why for in example germany they hated jews that much, or in russia..
i repeat, this does not make good what the nazis done did with them during world war 2 , but life for natives in their own country did become better without the jews
@MooseheadDrinker I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that, but to me it's a bit like saying Whites enslaved Blacks in the Deep South of the USA in the 19th century or something. I mean--what--all Whites did that to all Blacks? All Jews did that other stuff to all Polish firms? No? How many did it to how many, then? And what does the Polish/Jewish distinction mean? Do you think it's comparable to various distinctions in Europe today that render the Roma people stateless among their neighbours?
@RussMoxham I don't think anyone knows what percentage of jews did that nor is it known how many whites enslaved blacks. It's not that important because enough of them did it to harm most poles and polish businesses. Jews stick close together (no homeland for centuries). Similar things happened across europe btw.
The Roma are a different story - they don't like to work. They only like to milk the system. At least jews were (still are) hard working and intelligent.
@MooseheadDrinker I did not comment on this at the time but I'm not sure it's fair to say the Roma 'don't like to work' or 'only like to milk the system'. That may be true in many cases but the Roma are customarily excluded from 'the system' across large areas of Europe anyway--no education, no identity papers, little or no legal protection, etc., etc., whether they want them or not. Anyhow I don't see why they should be expected to want to be like everyone else (and I'm probably part Roma).
@RussMoxham Many Roma are excluded from "the system" because they CHOOSE to be excluded from the system. It sounds like you've never been to parts of europe where there are large roma communities. They encourage their kids to beg for money rather than go to school!!
They have to go to school, work and pay taxes (just like the rest of us) because hard working people like me don't want (or deserve) to have our hard earned money wasted on lazy people.
@RussMoxham One more thing. Many polish-jews collaborated (AKA treason) with the Soviets after the ribbentrop-molotov pact (similar thing happen during the polish-bolshevik war of 1919-21) which resulted in thousands of polish intelligentsia being persecuted by the reds. Thus, more distrust.
A desire for "nationhood" or behaviour like a "nation"therefore brings into question accusations of anti-semtism. How can you have a sizeable minority in a country demanding its own laws and thereby living by seperate rules to everyone else, demanding its own language, its own schools etc, etc, (all verified by the 1919 Morgenthau report) and claim foul when its ambitions clash with another culture or are at odds with the nation they reside in.
@smitty1863 I hear what you're saying but there are Orthodox communities here in Britain and, while some people have problems with their ethics, etc., these are individuals and I see no cause to judge them all instantaneously under the heading of JEWS. In any case, if I did, it would be from a more or less ignorant non-Jewish viewpoint. What gives me the right? Even Morgenthau had his viewpoint, as a second-generation US immigrant; I doubt he was a fount of impartial wisdom on European Jewry.
@smitty1863 More importantly, Morgenthau was an assimilationist. That's fine but I don't see why everyone else should be too. Some other comments on here (I'm not thinking of yours) show a level of enmity toward Jews of all kinds that would hardly encourage me to assimilate if I were Jewish and in the position to choose. If people hate you anyway, why assimilate?! I doubt Jewish communities have had to try very hard to exert their identity through the ages for small-minded people to hate them.
@RussMoxham With respect, you do not understand the position in society of Jews in Feudal Poland. Jews came to Poland by invitation of the king and their position in ancient Polish society was below the magnates and above that of the peasants who were owned by the magnates. The Jews as well as being involved in commerce were frequently the managers of the estates in Poland.
80%+ of the Poles were effectively chattel to be bought, sold and disposed of at will, upto the 18th century.
@smitty1863 The reason there was no assimilation is for a number of reasons.
Strict Jewish religious instruction forbid it. The Jews were hardly likely to integrate with the Polish peasant population who were treated as chattel.
This explains their view of Poles, Ukranians etc who they viewed as uncultured, stupid etc, and explains their admiration of Germans, even post-holocaust who they view(ed) as cultured. The fact that Yiddish is an old form or is derived from German is significant.
@smitty1863 I appreciate your comments, which are more scholarly than most on here, and that often, in multiple contexts, there has been objection to Jewish assimilation on the part of both (some) Jews and (some) non-Jews. All the same, some people on here seem to hate Jews whatever they do, effectively for being Jewish, which would probably not motivate me to assimilate into any non-Jewish majority if I were a Jew--even a moderate Jew. Anyway I don't really believe in the melting pot idea.
@smitty1863 As for some Jews' or their communities' having perhaps helped their Slavic neighbours resent them, because many Jews favoured Germanic culture (if only because Yiddish is, as you say, a Germanic language--albeit heavily influenced by Hebrew, Slavonic languages, etc.): you may be right, but I think at some point these arguments pale into academic insignificance in comparison to the reality of something like holocaust, which I can't help thinking any sentient human ought to abhor.
@smitty1863 Again, this is an informative presentation of a point I'm not sure is relevant here. The fact remains that even moderate Jews have rarely been allowed to live as their neighbours' equals in the Christian world. This is one reason so many Jews have gone into a few professions that have been open to them. Anyhow, the characteristics/status of a Jew, or some Jews, or all Jews, cannot, in my view, detract from the inhumanity of the Holocaust or of those who fail to be horrified by it.
@smitty1863 I think it's telling that almost any European nation that stops to think about its relationship to the Jews in the context of the Holocaust uncritically distinguishes between its own (non-Jewish) citizens (e.g. Poles, Ukrainians or Lithuanians) and Jews. Often even moderate Jews only seem to count as Jews, however they may see themselves. It's not as if Jews have had to go to any great lengths to have their Christian neighbours view them as outsiders for the last 1,500 years or more.
That's what we call a bullshit! jews were kicked everywhere in Europe! They found in Poland a promise land for rebirth of their faith. jews didn't assimilate with non jews because of their point on view from talmud.
" I offered some reply starting with 'they'," @RM.
Polish Jews before WW2 were unassimilated. Many would have preferred being part of a German or even a Russian Empire. In 1919 they demanded and received special rights in Poland and were virtually a nation within a nation.
There's no special attachement to the way he has expressed himself, because most Jews kept themselves apart from the Poles and saw themselves as a "nation" apart. Not like a "class", but a "nation".
I understand the completely valid point you make about how we nowadays express ourselves with regard to other peoples. This is proper and thanks to our modern educational system/society which strives to teach us these things.
You are judging a person who has had access to only a most basic education.This person has experienced war, occupation and by the look of it poverty his whole life. The history of Jewry in Poland is not just 1939-1945.
The Poland this gentleman lives in was under occupation from about the 1780's till 1989 (except 1918-1939).
The district of Chelmno where he lives was not substantially Jewish. It was mostly German/Polish and it was an area designated part of the Reich in 1939. Poles were ethnically cleansed or forced to become volksdeutch. About 30% of the Polish population was murdered. When the Soviets took over in '45 about 600 Poles were deported to Siberia. The area was under Soviet rule for 40 years.
@smitty1863 I mean, if somebody asked me how I felt about the middle classes in Britain (or Blacks, Whites, Muslims or whatever) and I offered some reply starting with 'they', as if all the individuals in question were the same, I feel I'd be prejudiced. Furthermore, the interview here, for whatever reason, seems to me to point to a certain indifference that I find it hard to reconcile with post-war awareness of the inhumanity of the Holocaust.
@smitty1863 I agree with you in many ways but the guy here doesn't seem like an idiot to me (he seems quite amiable); ultimately he's responsible for his comments. They're at least representative of his views, which I doubt were that unusual at the time. I appreciate that he's not exactly saying 'all Jews are scum', but he is generalising about individuals--turning them into a faceless collective on the basis of their Jewish identity--which is one thing the Nazis did par excellence.
The main point of this person makes who is being interviewed is that Germans and Jews owned all the industry and had a monopoly on commerce, before the war.
Since and International report by the American Henry Morgenthau in 1919 found exactly that and that Jews formed the entire middle class in Poland, I don't understand why you can try to make the point you are using this clip.
From what I understand from this interview the interviewers seem to be leading the person on with questions like "Are times happier now there are no Jews or were times happier with Jews?" and "How were you exploited by the Jews?"
I was in Poland either side of 1985 and what I noticed most of all was all those Russian soldiers walking around in their jackboots in all the towns. Imagine a scene from Orwell's 1984, because I've seen it.
It maybe lost on viewers but the country where this interview is taking place was in 1985 UNDER SOVIET OCCUPATION. 1981 had MARTIAL LAW followed by mass arrests of Solidarity members.
In 1984 the state thought nothing of murdering solidarities priest father Jerzy Popieluszko.
people are getting sick 'cuz every time they watch tv - it's all full of jews... nose bobbed jews with plastic surgery to look anglo-goyim... mel gibson made his own movies and thus became a jew-threat... marlon brando told larry king "you can't work in entertainment unless you're jew..." all actresses and actors are jews... all music is jew run - that's why music is so bad today... no goys to copy from... like pre-nazi germany... poles and germans still hate jews to this day... why...?
@CrackerJackLee Why don't you count the Jews and non-Jews you see on TV in one day and get back to me? I mean, really--just count them. And are you really going to present the rhetoric of at least one notorious anti-Semite (maybe two--I didn't know, or had forgotten, about Brando) as evidence of Jewish domination? That's like quoting a KKK grand dragon (or a Black Panther) as evidence for the virtue of the KKK (or the Black Panthers).
@CrackerJackLee Also, if the influence of the Jews is, as you suggest, ubiquitous, why on earth would they need or even want to undergo cosmetic surgery in order, as you put it, 'to look anglo-goyim'? Wouldn't non-Jewish White Americans rather be inclined to undergo surgery to look like Jews?! I mean, if you're right about all this, how come every ambitious person in the world isn't rushing to the local rabbi to convert?
@WineBeerLover I was of the understanding that there were also White Christians (and post-Christians) of European descent in both parties too, so what are your premises for attributing the Jewish presence (and only the Jewish presence) in both parties to what you appear to regard as conspiracy?
Anyway, folks, some of you attack the Jews (or some of them) as owners of capital, some as Communist offenders. These are contradictory roles, and if Jews really have performed them both then clearly neither role is part of the essence of being Jewish. Neither role IS JEWISH. If you dislike all Jews (or even just one) because of what some other Jew(s) may or may not have done, you are not looking at the world analytically enough to make genuine sense of it or to present a strong argument.
...or how did they behave on the day of the soviet invasion.
I'll just ask You one thing :
IF YOU ARE ABLE TO MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT, WHAT DOES PREVENT ME FROM STATING THAT THERE'S A DEEP HATRED AND PREJUDICE BETWEEN THE JEWISH PEOPLE TOWARDS THE POLES, OR STATING THAT ALL JEWS ARE COMMIES, JUST BECAUSE ONE OF THEM SAID ON THE 17th OF SEPT.'39:
"THESE ARE THE TIMES OF THE MESSIAH...AND THE MESSIAH'S NAME IS STALIN" (documented in a book written by Zerubawel - a JEW)?
@2serveand2protect I could happily track down stupid comments by antisemitic Poles too, but that wouldn't mean they represented Poles in general. It's just poor logic. In my view, you lost the argument(s) before you began, because your logic is poor, your language is sometimes imprecise and sometimes deliberately emotive, and your argument is mostly irrelevant. There were Polish pogroms, etc. long long before Communism, so what was the excuse back then?
Because of ONE man (that doesn't even speak a good Polish), that You filmed in '85, You are trying to state that Poles are antisemites (or that there's at least a strong antisemitic feeling in Poland) - right? WORSE OF ALL - In Your statements You're linking all that to the Holocaust, as Poles had something to do with that.
I won't bother You trying to explain who Berman was, or how many Jews lived in Poland in the 30's, or....
@2serveand2protect This is bad logic. This is one example, so you presume it's is the entire basis for my views? Why? How many examples do you want? Is there a magic number at which the argument becomes convincing? And the link between Poland and the Holocaust is just that a lot of it happened in Poland. It's not about Polish responsibility for the Holocaust. But if Poles belittle the Holocaust, the occasional Polish pogroms, etc. just because Poles had a bad time too, they belittle themselves.
why is it that every european that i've spoken with has horror stories about jews? in north america we hear only of a jewish holocaust... we never get a logical answer for the reason... except that europeans are all crazy nazis and anti-semitic and blame the jews for everything... yet, slowly i hear about things that went on in eastern europe since 1850 that we never see in movies or books here... now, when i look at the plight of the palestinian, i see much hatred and supremism from jews...
could there be a reason why europeans wanted them gone...? and why the older generation in america did not want them to come here...? have north americans been duped by a very crafty clan of people...? a tight knit racial/religious community that must monopolize everything even though they are only a tiny part of the population...? they are so organized that they can plan for generations...! no one else can make that claim... the media, the markets, the judicial, the political back rooms...
we can't even think in these terms. we simply work to earn our keep and eke out little pleasures from life. we don't sit down in a group and plan for taking over media and power positions. we have personal and familial ambitions, but not racial ambitions. we don't stick together. it's not our way. they organize the medias to dumb us down and keep us occupied while they inundate us with debauchery and pornography and rally for sexual perversion while condemning Christian traditions and morals...
@CrackerJackLee Here we go again. Do you think Christ (the rabbi) would have approved of this notion of Us v. The Jews?! Generalisation, paranoia and judgementalism are not Christian virtues.
and this is the very argument that jews alway use against goys and shiksas... they use our faith against us... and don't tell me He was one of your rabbis... LOL! jewish rabbis had Him executed by the romans... generalization is how we guard against enemies... is it paranoia when a Christian notices that every media outlet is controlled by a jew...? is it judgemental to see what israel is doing to Christian and Muslim Palestinians...? you're not a very good apologist for jews...
@CrackerJackLee By the way, I'm not Jewish. I have no rabbis. Either way, Christ clearly was Jewish. The notion of Christianity took centuries to emerge--centuries after Jesus' death. In my view, this does not belittle Christianity or Judaism. It ought to be a cause for people to try to see eye to eye. And you may choose to call whoever (apart from Pilate et al.) caused Jesus' death Jewish, but you could just as well see them as people. (Of course they were Jews. It went with the territory.)
@CrackerJackLee And Israel and its actions should not be confused with Jews--any Jews--and their actions. I've said in the past that there are Jews who don't recognise the State of Israel, e.g. because, as far as many are concerned, the Messiah/Moshiach must return before Israel can be restored. Whatever Netanyahu or Israeli forces may be doing in or to Palestine effectively has nothing do with any Orthodox Jew I may pass on the streets of the East End of London. Distinctions must be drawn.
@CrackerJackLee Also, logically, when you say 'we don't stick together' etc. and then go on to say 'they' organise the media and 'they inundate us with debauchery', etc., I suspect it's you who are creating the division at least as much as 'they' are
nonsense... faulty logic... you're feigning ignorance to feather your nest... you'd have been more sucessful to give real examples to dispute what the "awakening" north americans are beginning to learn from the internet about jewish domination...
LOL! jews are stealing land from under the palestinian's feet... and you want a logical argument... mister, the onus is on the jew to explain what the fuck he doing over there in palestine... i have done nothing to explain for... it's the jew who must explain his bizarre behaviour... everywhere the jew goes, there is trouble... because they want everything that they see...
@CrackerJackLee haha if i am a jew how can i be Arafat basterd love child u have big problem with projection, you ar the one who love everyone who the jew hates so u must be real Arafat love child. no wonder with logic like yours u probably are a retard
it appears that you have nothing important to say... just name calling... good thing that you're no one of importance... sharpen up...! and when you get a point... come back...
@RussMoxham don't waist ur time with this Mother fucker polish supporter, he dose not deserve dignified respond just Fuck him up and if he goes to Israel he will be fucked by real fucking jew
@freelebenon I agree, RussMoxham. Just let them be. They are not the audience you seek because they have already closed their minds. Just show t e rest of the world the truth and the worthiness of your cause.
@CrackerJackLee That would work better if you hadn't been throwing out jibes such as 'yasser was your mother's anal lover... and you were yasser arafat's bastard love-child'
@CrackerJackLee You appear unable to regard Jews as individuals. It seems that you regard each, at best, as some kind of unappointed ambassador for the Jewish people. I do not. And it is not immediately clear to me how any atrocities that the State of Israel (against the wishes of many enlightened Jews in Israel and beyond) commits against neighbouring peoples can logically be said to reflect on, say, a Hassidic (Charedi) Jew I may pass in the street in Stamford Hill here in London.
@CrackerJackLee Incidentally, who in fact are 'we' here? All non-Jews? Just Christians? US Christians? Disgruntled Klan sympathisers?! In my opinion, this we/they distinction does not stand up, because you can always move one level of analysis away from it and apply the word 'we' to all humanity. Basically we all get born, eat, sleep, have kids, probably pay taxes, and die. Anything else, like religion, is more or less incidental in my view.
recently, in toronto, canada, the jewish bnai brth spoke out against gypsies emmigrating to canada... they told us that we do not know these kind of people that the gypsies are and that we would regret it... i thougt that was odd, because it was what our grandparents told us... don't let them in - you'll live to regret it... now some of us are beginning to awaken and see for ourselves that jews came to north america to rule... not to be one of us... but to control us... for us to serve them...
even in canada, the public cannot put up traditional Christmas items because jews don't like it... yet everywhere, there are menorahs... even on public land. they are there to tear down Christmas Trees - but you cannot speak out against menorahs. and they gather to light the menorahs... but no Christmas trees... and the reason...? because of the holocaust and Anne Franck...! Christians are being controlled by the commandments of their own religion... jews take advantage of Christian morals...
@CrackerJackLee And this is most likely a bullsh*t urban myth that takes various forms in various countries. Here in Britain there is the myth that WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) cannot fly the Union Flag or refer to Christmas because non-Christian immigrants don't like it. Research has shown that there are just as many Christmas decorations as ever, if not more, and whoever thinks the Union Flag or Christmas has been marginalised here has presumably never gone to a UK supermarket
you know full well that jews have arranged the banning of all Christian traditions in government and in public displays... you think people on YouTube are so stupid as to confuse Christ with santa clause..?! thanks to jews we now have Merry Xmas... but, didn't Mel Gibson burn a lot of jewish ass when he made his movie of the crucifixion ...? ol' MGM must have been twisting in his grave... LOL!
@CrackerJackLee No, I don't know any such thing, and I would thank you for not attempting to read my mind. As for Mel Gibson--well, I thought it was a worthwhile film (although a little sensational in parts), and probably a lot more interesting than many of his fundamental views on religion. The fact remains that Jesus (Yeshua) was a rabbi. Most of the New Testament is devoted to establishing that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah (Moshiach) descended from the House of David.
@CrackerJackLee Either that or just some of them were pretty good at business. This is just stupid. Nobody judges a whole people ('them') on the basis of Warren Buffett's background, or Bill Gates', etc. etc. So how come when a Jew gets rich so many non-Jews start acting as if the sky's caving in, as if it's all a big conspiracy and we're going to hell in a handcart? And so what if some spokesman or organisation said this or that? They're not channelling all world Jewry. This isn't the Borg.
too much noise for a tiny ethnic group. dragging the U.S. into feuds that harm American people. who enticed terrorists to NYC? why is American taxpayers' money siphoned off to israel? who abused the markets 'til they crashed with Americans' life savings. genocide's a dead foreign issue for 70yrs. not of our doing. jews did something to euro's to make them kill them. do jews care about goys & shiksas? and what of others killed in ages past? why is America marked with the holocaust?
@CrackerJackLee Listen, I think the Middle East situation is lousy too, but you can hardly blame Israel for the fact that successive US presidents have lacked the courage to confront Israel head on. It's as much the fault of rednecks in the Midwest who cannot imagine existence without God and who believe in some sacrosanct connection between Israel (or the Holy Land, as they might say) and the States. It's because America was settled by puritan Founding Fathers and so on.
@CrackerJackLee Generally, though, in my opinion, many of your comments here are rather too fervent (or rabid) to make any kind of sense worth considering. I can only respond reasonably to the reasonable points. There is a difference between presenting an argument and listing more or less arbitrary (and often extreme) views. That said, all feedback is welcome, because the more feedback there is, the more discussion there is.
OOOOOHHH!!!!!.....I SEE IT NOW - "communism gave the Jews a chance for equality" - YEAH! I BET! - IT WASN'T A CHANCE FOR "REVENGE", but for "EQUALITY" - COMMIE EQUALITY! Anyone who wants to really see something - at the end sees it! I got who You really are now & won't be bothering you anymore. Please respond me to one just one last question: Did You go to Poland in '85, yes? ..and how much of "commie equality" you have seen? ..so much at the end You had to bring back JUST this "thing" above?
@2serveand2protect There you go again: 'Commie'. You're not going to think about anything logically if you can't even mention it without ridiculing it. I'm not saying I approve(d) of Communism but I can understand why it might have appealed to some of the Jewish intelligentsia who were basically bored of oppression.
You're wrong again. The Jewish "intellighentsia" was the SMALLEST part of Jewish community that followed in 1939 communism. The BIG part was exactly the low and lowest "class" (GOD! How I hate this word!).
...and if they were so bored of the "Polish oppression" HOW T.F. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT POLAND HELD THE BIGGEST JEWISH COMMUNITY OF THE WORLD IN THOSE DAYS ? - NOW EXPLAIN THE "LOGIC" OF THAT.
@2serveand2protect I only made a comment on the intelligentsia, not on anyone else. I can't be wrong without actually making a comment! And I'm not aware that I refer to the 'Polish oppression' to which you do refer here; I have referred to 'oppression' (probably more Russian than Polish, for instance). But many Central/Eastern European Jewish communities had been marginalised and persecuted for centuries when Communism emerged. Many Jews will have seen it as an answer, and they were not alone.
...AND STOP FOR GOD'S SAKE BRINGING ALWAYS "THE HOLOCAUST" INTO THIS. IT'S YOU, WHO ARE JUSTIFYING CRIMES OF COMMUNIST JEWS WITH THE HOLOCAUST - GET IT FINALLY, THAT THE 2 THINGS ARE SEPARATED.
@2serveand2protect Yeah well, basically, I don't think your arguments go very far. You clearly do generalise about 'THE JEWS'--so do you condemn all (non-Jewish) Poles because there were (non-Jewish) Polish Communists? Do you condemn all Russians? Do you condemn all men?! All men and women? Children? Logically, how is any of this even related to (ahem) the Holocaust, which is what my clips are ABOUT?
ONCE MORE! (What is it the tenth's time?) - I don't condemn ALL Jews, I condemn:
1. those that massacred people in the name of communism;
2. those Jewish communities that gave refuge to the previous ones - NOW - You tell me how many Jews does that make. I don't have any of such "calculator" to count them, but if you add those who murdered to those who gave them refuge, it clerly makes A HELL LOT OF'EM to me.
@2serveand2protect That's all very well, but why do you make any of those arguments here? All of this happened after the Holocaust, whereas there were occasional Polish pogroms, etc. long before. You're saying a lot of things that have no bearing on any argument of mine. Presumably you hate (some?) Jewish Communists for what they did? So? I hate Belgian paedophiles, but I don't have anything to say about Belgians in general just because there are some Belgian paedophiles. What is your point?
ALL European Nations that participated in the IIWW, have some dark spots on their History, BUT - ALL European nations PUBLICLY AND OPENLY DISCUSS about these "spots".
THERE IS ONLY ONE "NATION" THAT DOES NOT DO IT, AND PRETENDS TO HAVE THE CONSCIENCE CLEAR - and THESE ARE THE JEWS.
@2serveand2protect Incidentally, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. 'THE JEWS'? Silent about the Second World War? What are you talking about?! In any case, what do you want 'THE JEWS' to say? It would have to be something pretty damning to justify the industrial-scale killing of maybe 6 million of 'THE JEWS'.
@RussMoxham I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ANY JEWISH "HIGH-LEVEL" HISTORIAN TO EVEN TRY TO DEBATE ABOUT JEWISH COLLABORATORS OF THE STALINIST TERROR MACHINE - THAT'S WHAT T.F. I'M TALKING ABOUT - INSTEAD OF POINTING OUT THEIR FINGERS ON EVERYBODY ELSE.
LEARN - DAMN IT! - THAT 6 OR EVEN 100 MILLIONS JEWS KILLED IS NOT BY ANY MEANS SOMETHING THAT JUSTIFIES THE CRIMES OTHER JEWS HAVE DONE, SO DON'T BRING IN AGAIN&AGAIN "THE HOLOCAUST" INTO IT, BECAUSE THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT CAUSE REAL ANTI-SEMITISM.
@2serveand2protect I'm not here to debate 'THE CRIMES OTHER JEWS HAVE DONE'. You are. But even if every Jew in the whole world was fairly convicted for theft, murder or anything else, the moment just one of them had a child there would be a person in the world who did not deserve to be judged (let alone murdered by suffocation in the back of a bread van, for instance) for being Jewish. I've said it before and I'll say it again: these are people. Men, women and children. Individuals.
That's what You still don't get, and that's strange, because it's quite easy to understand:
YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DIVIDE THE MATTER OF POLISH "PREJUDICE" (OF SOME OF THE POLISH PEOPLE) TOWARDS JEWISH PEOPLE, FROM THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN POLAND IN 1939 AND 1944/45 - '53.
Any sort of discussion that tries to GET RID of one half of the story, and keep just the other half, stops being a logical (and even honest) argumentation.
@2serveand2protect On one level, I agree, but I fear that in Central and Eastern Europe it's too often the Holocaust that gets neglected (sometimes even denied). What happened in Europe under Soviet rule after the Second World War has no bearing on what happened in the death camps before. In my view, if you say something like, 'It's not only the Jews who had it bad,' you turn murder or even genocide into some kind of contest, and when you do that--again in my opinion--you cheapen humanity.
it's simple. they let them in and they monopolized business and media. getting rich off Euro's, as with black people in America. renting run-down ghetto buildings and owning factories. jews never work - they use their money to make more money. did these rich, lazy people abuse the germans like the palestinian? all their bosses were jews. they ended up slaves in their own land, owing more money to jews than they could ever repay. the pot boiled over and they killed them...
@CrackerJackLee I don't know whether you actually intend to sound as if you begrudge the Jews their existence, but that is often the effect your diatribes here have
@CrackerJackLee I find it interesting that you extol freedom of speech (against menorahs, at least) while at the same time suggesting the Jews make 'too much noise for a tiny ethnic group'. In what sense can they be making too much noise? Do you begrudge them their freedom of expression? Do you think there ought to be some kind of ethnically or religiously weighted self-expression quota?!
no power group, ethnic or otherwise, should be controlling any facet of america... jews are a merely one more power group that monopolize media & entertainment... how do you account for so many jews in one arena...? no one gets in 'less they're jew... ask the late marlon brando... holocaust movies and zionist newspapers are jew culture - not american... go! "express" yourselves in israel... unfortunately to jews, expression is code for control...
Here in Czechoslpovakia almost nobody regretted that the Germans killed our 250 000 Jews or so.
BaumerPaulGefreiter 2 months ago
Poland. Nr.1 in Yad Vashem. Thank you. Good Night!
zentrallondon 3 months ago
jebać żyduchów! buziaczki
moracz86 3 months ago
Polaks dont really like the jews.
Nalesniki33 5 months ago
@Nalesniki33
PoloniaAmericas 4 months ago
Slavic people like myself have every right to hate the Jews. Because of them 7-11 million Ukrainians died because all Jews were Communists.
Nadav34 7 months ago
@Nadav34 Not only that Polanians (Poles) also have the right to hate them, bolsheviks Russian Jews killed alot of Pol soldiers in Katyn.
Furmanov18 1 week ago
I would like to say that Poland had the biggest Jewish population in Europe before the War, was the the result of our Antisemitism? I don't think so! Poland has the biggest amount of Righteous Among Nations, created the biggest anti-nazi underground movement in occupied Europe, had to deal with Nazis and Soviets, created ZEGOTA the only government scheme helping jews, and now other countries in Europe that collaborated with Germany, packed all the Jews to trains are trying to blame us..shame
zentrallondon 7 months ago
and, moxham, it's easy to obtain an opinion on jews in poland and then self-righteously pilllory the poles. if you go to any market in what is called israel and ask tradesmen or customers about palestinians (who lost their country to the jews), you will get much more hateful and violence gloryfying comments. but for ppl like you still the jews are the victim then. when i was younger and more stupid i also excused the jews from anything and considered them the eternal innocent victim.
zobielamouche1 10 months ago 7
@zobielamouche1 I've dealt with this argument(?) many times before. Actually it's one reason for my postings. It's like saying two wrongs make a right. Well, they don't. If you can't think about the Holocaust without thinking about Israeli aggression toward the Palestinians, or vice versa, your powers of reasoning are probably not very strong. The one in no way excuses the other, although they are related. (The State of Israel is bound to be paranoid about the idea of another holocaust!)
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@zobielamouche1 Anyhow I am not pillorying the Poles, at least not unless all Poles are hypocritical anti-Semites, which evidently not all of them are. My gripe is not with Poland or the Poles. It's with nationalism, racism, anti-Semitism, etc., with the denial of them and with all the stupid childish excuses that anyone ever makes for them. I feel the same way about the British National Party, for instance, because generally it wants to exclude Poles et al. from my country.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
i'am wondering what these opinions are based on..."prejustice"?:-)
msciciel14therope 11 months ago
Guy’s life is not black and white. Many Jews were good towards Poland, we were home for the biggest European Jewish Population for hundreds of years, it means something right? And we had bad Jews, as we had bad poles, lets remember the good times, lets remember Zegota, Irena Sendler, Jan Korczak, beautiful stories of ordinary people heroism! Poles saved Jews and poles killed Jews, in Israel you have Israelis killing Palestinians and Israelis helping Palestinians, life is not black and white!
zentrallondon 11 months ago
@zentrallondon seems like you missing something...namely:percentage of activities mentioned above(good vs bad)...:-)
msciciel14therope 11 months ago
@zentrallondon I like your style
RussMoxham 10 months ago
Nie chcemy żadnego obcokrajowca w Polsce!
POWROTTATY 11 months ago
@POWROTTATY poucz sie histori, Polska w swojej swietnosci byla centrum wielu kultur i wielu narodowosci. To co teraz slyszysz to post komunistyczny, schizofreniczny belkot!
zentrallondon 11 months ago
@zentrallondon
To ty poucz się Historię a nie bajki! Polska była centrum wielu kultur i narodowości to dlatego że później dostała wpierdol! Polska kilka set lat temu, miejsce gdzie obcokrajowce szmaty rządzili i mieli Polskie interesy w dupę! Lepiej byłoby Polski Imperator niż elekcję obcokrajowego brudasa jako króla Polski!
Żaden Polak nie zabił pajaca, to właśnie żydzi (nkwd, stalin, hitler i tak dalej) zabiljali Polaków!
POLSKA TYLKO DLA POLAKÓW (Lechicki haplogrup R1a)!
POWROTTATY 11 months ago
@POWROTTATY aha czyli pijactwo i zabawy polskiej szlachty i liberum veto nie ma tu nic do gadania?! Widzisz tylko cudze bledy.....Polak nie zabil pajaca? Co to znaczy? Co chcesz przekazac? Mamy duzo na sumieniu tylko w szkole powiedza ci tylko o 1410r i jak zawsze bylismy biedni i pokrzywdzeni....
Kiszczak, Jaruzelski i milicja strzelajaca do robotnikow to tez Polacy a nie Zydzi, wiec o co ci chodzi ze Polak nie zabija? Mordercy Popiluszki to tez zydzi? Zyjesz w paranoi, zamiast szczesciu!
zentrallondon 11 months ago
@zentrallondon Thank you
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY You're going to identify the Polish nation with a haplogroup? And one that is common everywhere from Scandinavia to the Indian Subcontinent? Really?! So what did being Polish mean, say, 100 years ago when nobody knew about the haplogroups? Also, R1a is passed only from father to son, while, traditionally, Jewish identity comes from the mother. So someone could easily be Polish and Jewish. Just as someone could have two non-Jewish Polish parents and convert to Judaism. Try harder.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham
Typical crap. Trying to say something but in fact seems like poors words in the air. Being Polish is racial-spiritual thing!
POWROTTATY 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Being Polish (or Slavic or English or British or Brazilian...) is such a vague concept that really you can define it however you like. If it were really such a clearly defined thing, there would be no debate. But to connect it with a haplogroup seems ridiculous to me. Nobody gets up in the morning and pledges to fight to the death for a haplogroup, especially one that exists across whole big areas of Eurasia.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham you talk so much yet still show little knowledge.....nationality is not a vague concept.... like it or not it's just another crucial step in history of society and human civilization... talk less read more...that's my advice
MarcoBocoure 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Anyway, saying something loud or typing it in capital letters does not make it right. Otherwise I would think Hitler had been right.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Also, R1a is older than the Slavs and does not separate the Poles from other Slavs or from other groups who have inherited it--so how can it help you define who is Polish and who is not?
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham
R1a isn't older than Slavic People, R1a is Slavic! Polanders are who they are, like every Slavic : unique. Define them is a lot of things not just appearence.
POWROTTATY 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY You may be talking about a particular subgroup of R1a, but R1a in general exists in native populations everywhere from Scandinavia to the Indian Subcontinent. It is clearly older than the Slavic languages and Slavic identity. Anyhow it only passes from father to son and so it says nothing about Polish mothers/women or what it means to be one. Also, maybe I misunderstand you: are you saying Poles are unique because they are like other Slavs? How does that work?
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Actually most of the academics in the area believe R1a (R1a1a) has been in Asia thousands of years longer than in Central/Eastern Europe. The general academic view is that if R1a originated in either Asia or Europe, it probably originated in Asia. Either that or it emerged in both independently--thousands of years before the Polish nation, language or state. And, again, it passes only from male to male; even if it were 100% understood it could only tell half the story.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Also, a study by DM Behar, MG Thomas, K Skorecki et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics (October 2003) found that R1a (R1a1a) was present in more than 50% of male Ashkenazy (basically Central/Eastern European) Levite JEWS!! Even if they are all descended from one European male and the rest of the original community was Middle Eastern, apparently most males in that particular Jewish community exhibit the R1a haplogroup mutation that you say shows Polish/Slavic heritage!
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham Poles, Belorussians, Ukrainians and Russians share tha same genetics, scientists discovered this. Sometimes I have a problem in seeing if a person is Pol, Rus, Ukrainian or any other Slavic group. Know why? Because they are the same originally.
Furmanov18 1 week ago
@POWROTTATY I've only just realised how ridiculous this comment is!
'[...] No Pole killed any clown. It was precisely the Jews (NKWD, Stalin, Hitler and so on) who killed [?zabijali] the Poles! [...]'
Good grief--did the Nazis burn all the books in your town too?!
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY 'Nie chcemy [...]'? Who the hell do you think you speak for--the whole of the Polish nation?!
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham
We, the True Poles : The Chosen One.
POWROTTATY 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Probably every country and nation in the world has someone among its number saying it and it has been chosen? That doesn't make any of them right. Actually it probably suggests that anyone who says such a thing is wrong (perhaps even stupid). Chosen by what or whom, anyway? God?! I think I must have missed that passage in The Bible :)
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY If you are in the majority then maybe Poland should just leave the EU and see how that works out!
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham
Poland is in E.U. since 2004. He has just to play with it in his favor.
POWROTTATY 10 months ago
@POWROTTATY Well, if I understand that statement at all (he=Poland?!), then it's no big revelation. All member states try to get the most advantage possible from the EU. But you don't get to join the EU and exclude all foreigners. We have plenty of Poles here in Britain (though not as many as we had until 2008) and as far as I'm concerned they're generally welcome.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham death to the EU
MedrzecSyjonu 10 months ago
@MedrzecSyjonu And death to all the European money that's benefited the Polish people since the fall of the Soviet Union?!
RussMoxham 10 months ago
jews have plagued poles and spit at them for HOUNDREDS of years..
zobielamouche1 11 months ago
@zobielamouche1 Thanks for the comment, but I would like some more detail and/or analysis from you if possible. How have Jews plagued (non-Jewish) Poles? Do you think Jewish behaviour toward Poles has some effect on the acceptability or unacceptability of the Holocaust? On the acceptability or unacceptability of judging (prejudging) people just for being Jewish? I don't think belonging to a group that has some annoying members is punishable by death in Poland.
RussMoxham 11 months ago
@RussMoxham if you belief that one side is solely the lamb and the other side solely the wolf, you will regard/watch the reality under this assumption and perceive it as a confirmation of your belief.
zobielamouche1 11 months ago
@zobielamouche1 Well, actually, that is more or less the argument I put to those who deny the severity of what happened to so many Jews (and Roma, Slavs, et al.) in the camps. The fact remains that in most countries, cultures, civilisations and moral systems, the death penalty has not been applicable to the 'crime' of belonging to a particular religious, ethnic or national group, regardless of the actions of the individual. You have to have a damn good reason to kill strangers. I am listening.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham you don't get the point. poles (and other "goyim") are not always the perpetrators and jews not always the victims. that means that violence/killing wasn't always commited by the one on the others but also the other way round. you just don't see that because of the "glasses" you see the world through.
zobielamouche1 10 months ago
@RussMoxham
I will answer that question for you.
Jews had collaborated with Soviets on massive scale before and after the WWII.
They also actively participated in extermination of Poles as members of Soviet NKVD.
Those who escaped to the east before advancing Nazi troops were back as Judges, Prosecutors and members of Secret Police. Lookup General Emil Fieldorf and Helena Wolinska.
Poles have a lot of reasons to dislike Jews and the history is not black and white my friend.
polonophobia 10 months ago
@polonophobia Until you can give me all the names and all the personal details of all the Jews you are talking about (good luck with that), it will remain clear that you are generalising and therefore that your claims have no logical justification. 'Jews', all Jews, did not do these things--any of these things--any more than Germans, all Germans, committed war crimes in the Second World War or any more than Poles, all Poles, have bad personal hygiene as so many US jokes unfairly suggest.
RussMoxham 10 months ago
I am atheist expert in the Bible.The Orthodox Jews are cool.
rationalatheist100 1 year ago
I like Jews not Muslims .But i do not like Jewish antisemitism in Izrael.
rationalatheist100 1 year ago
@rationalatheist100 I like everyone until I have cause to dislike them. That seems rational to me! But thank you for showing that there is a difference between Jews and Israel, or between Jews and government action, etc. Not everybody even sees that!
RussMoxham 1 year ago
State of Izrael is pure aniysemitic state and i hate every anisemitic organization.Palestynien are semitic people ! Do not make wars and free palestinien from gettos like getto Gaza.Are getto cool to you?Do you think you better ?
rationalatheist100 1 year ago
@rationalatheist100 I'm not Jewish. Because I don't hate Jews, people think I must be Jewish. I think that's sad. Someone can say (s)he hates people and still be human! Also, maybe calling Israel and/or Jews Antisemitic sounds smart to you or something, but at best it's... I don't know... maybe childish. If things in the Middle East were so easy, there would be no problem! I have already said there are Orthodox Jews in Israel who do not accept the State of Israel and who refuse to speak Hebrew.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
6 milion Polish people,and 32milion Slaves was wipe out in IIWW.Holocaust started in 1941.Before Germans treat the Jews same as today Jews tread the palestynien.Holocaust happen only becouse Germens was as stuped as Jews today.
rationalatheist100 1 year ago
@rationalatheist100 Again, it's important to see the differences between Jews/Judaism and Israel. Not all Jews accept Israeli policy. Many say Israel will not exist until the Messiah/Moshiach comes. Many don't see what happens to Palestinians. As for Slavs--yes, too many died in the war. (One death is too many.) But 32 million?! Many were soldiers anyway--unlike most of the Jews, Gypsies, etc. who died. And what happened to Slavs does not change what happened to Jews. People are people.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@rationalatheist100 who were Slaves?
Psylocibowy 11 months ago
@Psylocibowy Slaves are people in Poland , Russia Ukrain Bialorissia . 57 milion people was wipe out because Germany and Japan went for their Promesed Land
rationalatheist100 11 months ago
@rationalatheist100 We are Slavs not slaves.
Psylocibowy 11 months ago
@Psylocibowy O.K.
rationalatheist100 11 months ago
@rationalatheist100 who are you ?? There be a being difference in Slavs and Salves aight learn something fro once
PolakFury 11 months ago
What simple Jews think about semitic palestinien.?
rationalatheist100 1 year ago
@rationalatheist100 I'm not sure I understand the question. I think it is sad that the Semitic peoples in the Middle East have grown so far apart. I also wish the State of Israel were not so aggressive toward Palestinians in general. But nothing Israel does to Palestinians can justify the Holocaust or denial of the Holocaust. These are separate issues. There are Jews in Israel who do not recognise Israel or Hebrew, and Israel's defensive (aggressive) attitude is partly a result of the Holocaust.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
I think the main question which nobody's asking is - why was there such a huge number of Jews and Muslims living in Poland for nearly 400 years while the entire Europe was trying to rid of them?
Well, as unfortunate as it is, they don't teach this in schools, but Poland was the first country in this region to declare freedom of religion along with the first nation to have a Ministry of Education... something that didn't sit well with their neighbors.
amokvrs 1 year ago
Chłopi
Rekrut100 1 year ago
@RM It should not be forgotten that some people of Jewish descent have a very patchy career with regard to mass murder themselves. Most notably, but not only, Lazar Kaganovich who is credited with the destruction of 4-10million Ukranians in "the single most efficient killing of humans in history". It's also accepted that the NKVD for much of this early time was a "career opportunity" for many Jews who formed a significant upper cadre.
This event preceded the holocaust, but is almost unknown.
smitty1863 1 year ago 3
@smitty1863 Well, on a simplistic level, I'd say that an *sshole is an *sshole--that it doesn't matter to me whether (s)he is a Jewish one or not and that it probably shouldn't matter as much to a lot of other people either! But I appreciate that this all plays a part in people's all-important perceptions and the remarks are welcome here--thanks.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RM You seem like a right thinking person who is rightly appalled by the fate that befell the Jewish population of Europe. However it would be wrong to think that only Jews were persecuted and look at the Holocaust as a seperate event to the other horrors of the 20th century - which is the way we are taught to look at this event. I further do not believe Jews should be thought of in stereotypical terms as an oppressed minority always on the brink of persecution.
smitty1863 1 year ago
@smitty1863 Thank you. My concern is precisely that, rather than viewing every victim as a human, people belonging to non-Jewish groups that were affected (and in many cases decimated) tend to view their own groups' suffering as different from and often more important than that of Jews. (Jews who do the same thing in reverse are no better, I suppose.) There's a tribalism that comes into it that ought to seem ridiculous in the light of something fundamental like extermination.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 that is right, it is very sad what has happened to them, but the same hapend to poles and all peoples around the globe in that time period (wo2), besides not talking about wo2 now, but before wo2, most people hated jews for treating the natives of their own country as a minority, this is thruth, for example my grandma had to walk 20 miles to school on here bare feet because a jew bought a school(witch was not possible to most of the poles at that time)...
VSML0C0POLAK 1 year ago
@VSML0C0POLAK and threw all the children out of the school and replaced them with jewish children... no poles allowed... they where really annoying people at that time and they made life a lot of harsher for poles in poland..
i can only imagine why for in example germany they hated jews that much, or in russia..
i repeat, this does not make good what the nazis done did with them during world war 2 , but life for natives in their own country did become better without the jews
VSML0C0POLAK 1 year ago
Well it is true that jews ran most business before the war and worked together to put polish businesses out of business
MooseheadDrinker 1 year ago
@MooseheadDrinker I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that, but to me it's a bit like saying Whites enslaved Blacks in the Deep South of the USA in the 19th century or something. I mean--what--all Whites did that to all Blacks? All Jews did that other stuff to all Polish firms? No? How many did it to how many, then? And what does the Polish/Jewish distinction mean? Do you think it's comparable to various distinctions in Europe today that render the Roma people stateless among their neighbours?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham I don't think anyone knows what percentage of jews did that nor is it known how many whites enslaved blacks. It's not that important because enough of them did it to harm most poles and polish businesses. Jews stick close together (no homeland for centuries). Similar things happened across europe btw.
The Roma are a different story - they don't like to work. They only like to milk the system. At least jews were (still are) hard working and intelligent.
MooseheadDrinker 1 year ago
@MooseheadDrinker Jews hard working? What the hell have you been reading? Zionist propaganda books?
OrzelBialy007 1 year ago
@MooseheadDrinker I did not comment on this at the time but I'm not sure it's fair to say the Roma 'don't like to work' or 'only like to milk the system'. That may be true in many cases but the Roma are customarily excluded from 'the system' across large areas of Europe anyway--no education, no identity papers, little or no legal protection, etc., etc., whether they want them or not. Anyhow I don't see why they should be expected to want to be like everyone else (and I'm probably part Roma).
RussMoxham 10 months ago
@RussMoxham Many Roma are excluded from "the system" because they CHOOSE to be excluded from the system. It sounds like you've never been to parts of europe where there are large roma communities. They encourage their kids to beg for money rather than go to school!!
They have to go to school, work and pay taxes (just like the rest of us) because hard working people like me don't want (or deserve) to have our hard earned money wasted on lazy people.
MooseheadDrinker 10 months ago
@RussMoxham One more thing. Many polish-jews collaborated (AKA treason) with the Soviets after the ribbentrop-molotov pact (similar thing happen during the polish-bolshevik war of 1919-21) which resulted in thousands of polish intelligentsia being persecuted by the reds. Thus, more distrust.
MooseheadDrinker 1 year ago
A desire for "nationhood" or behaviour like a "nation"therefore brings into question accusations of anti-semtism. How can you have a sizeable minority in a country demanding its own laws and thereby living by seperate rules to everyone else, demanding its own language, its own schools etc, etc, (all verified by the 1919 Morgenthau report) and claim foul when its ambitions clash with another culture or are at odds with the nation they reside in.
smitty1863 1 year ago
@smitty1863 I hear what you're saying but there are Orthodox communities here in Britain and, while some people have problems with their ethics, etc., these are individuals and I see no cause to judge them all instantaneously under the heading of JEWS. In any case, if I did, it would be from a more or less ignorant non-Jewish viewpoint. What gives me the right? Even Morgenthau had his viewpoint, as a second-generation US immigrant; I doubt he was a fount of impartial wisdom on European Jewry.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 More importantly, Morgenthau was an assimilationist. That's fine but I don't see why everyone else should be too. Some other comments on here (I'm not thinking of yours) show a level of enmity toward Jews of all kinds that would hardly encourage me to assimilate if I were Jewish and in the position to choose. If people hate you anyway, why assimilate?! I doubt Jewish communities have had to try very hard to exert their identity through the ages for small-minded people to hate them.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham With respect, you do not understand the position in society of Jews in Feudal Poland. Jews came to Poland by invitation of the king and their position in ancient Polish society was below the magnates and above that of the peasants who were owned by the magnates. The Jews as well as being involved in commerce were frequently the managers of the estates in Poland.
80%+ of the Poles were effectively chattel to be bought, sold and disposed of at will, upto the 18th century.
smitty1863 1 year ago
@smitty1863 The reason there was no assimilation is for a number of reasons.
Strict Jewish religious instruction forbid it. The Jews were hardly likely to integrate with the Polish peasant population who were treated as chattel.
This explains their view of Poles, Ukranians etc who they viewed as uncultured, stupid etc, and explains their admiration of Germans, even post-holocaust who they view(ed) as cultured. The fact that Yiddish is an old form or is derived from German is significant.
smitty1863 1 year ago
@smitty1863 I appreciate your comments, which are more scholarly than most on here, and that often, in multiple contexts, there has been objection to Jewish assimilation on the part of both (some) Jews and (some) non-Jews. All the same, some people on here seem to hate Jews whatever they do, effectively for being Jewish, which would probably not motivate me to assimilate into any non-Jewish majority if I were a Jew--even a moderate Jew. Anyway I don't really believe in the melting pot idea.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 As for some Jews' or their communities' having perhaps helped their Slavic neighbours resent them, because many Jews favoured Germanic culture (if only because Yiddish is, as you say, a Germanic language--albeit heavily influenced by Hebrew, Slavonic languages, etc.): you may be right, but I think at some point these arguments pale into academic insignificance in comparison to the reality of something like holocaust, which I can't help thinking any sentient human ought to abhor.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 Again, this is an informative presentation of a point I'm not sure is relevant here. The fact remains that even moderate Jews have rarely been allowed to live as their neighbours' equals in the Christian world. This is one reason so many Jews have gone into a few professions that have been open to them. Anyhow, the characteristics/status of a Jew, or some Jews, or all Jews, cannot, in my view, detract from the inhumanity of the Holocaust or of those who fail to be horrified by it.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 I think it's telling that almost any European nation that stops to think about its relationship to the Jews in the context of the Holocaust uncritically distinguishes between its own (non-Jewish) citizens (e.g. Poles, Ukrainians or Lithuanians) and Jews. Often even moderate Jews only seem to count as Jews, however they may see themselves. It's not as if Jews have had to go to any great lengths to have their Christian neighbours view them as outsiders for the last 1,500 years or more.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863
"Jews came to Poland by invitation of the king"
That's what we call a bullshit! jews were kicked everywhere in Europe! They found in Poland a promise land for rebirth of their faith. jews didn't assimilate with non jews because of their point on view from talmud.
POWROTTATY 11 months ago
" I offered some reply starting with 'they'," @RM.
Polish Jews before WW2 were unassimilated. Many would have preferred being part of a German or even a Russian Empire. In 1919 they demanded and received special rights in Poland and were virtually a nation within a nation.
There's no special attachement to the way he has expressed himself, because most Jews kept themselves apart from the Poles and saw themselves as a "nation" apart. Not like a "class", but a "nation".
smitty1863 1 year ago
I understand the completely valid point you make about how we nowadays express ourselves with regard to other peoples. This is proper and thanks to our modern educational system/society which strives to teach us these things.
You are judging a person who has had access to only a most basic education.This person has experienced war, occupation and by the look of it poverty his whole life. The history of Jewry in Poland is not just 1939-1945.
smitty1863 1 year ago
The Poland this gentleman lives in was under occupation from about the 1780's till 1989 (except 1918-1939).
The district of Chelmno where he lives was not substantially Jewish. It was mostly German/Polish and it was an area designated part of the Reich in 1939. Poles were ethnically cleansed or forced to become volksdeutch. About 30% of the Polish population was murdered. When the Soviets took over in '45 about 600 Poles were deported to Siberia. The area was under Soviet rule for 40 years.
smitty1863 1 year ago
@smitty1863 I mean, if somebody asked me how I felt about the middle classes in Britain (or Blacks, Whites, Muslims or whatever) and I offered some reply starting with 'they', as if all the individuals in question were the same, I feel I'd be prejudiced. Furthermore, the interview here, for whatever reason, seems to me to point to a certain indifference that I find it hard to reconcile with post-war awareness of the inhumanity of the Holocaust.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@smitty1863 I agree with you in many ways but the guy here doesn't seem like an idiot to me (he seems quite amiable); ultimately he's responsible for his comments. They're at least representative of his views, which I doubt were that unusual at the time. I appreciate that he's not exactly saying 'all Jews are scum', but he is generalising about individuals--turning them into a faceless collective on the basis of their Jewish identity--which is one thing the Nazis did par excellence.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
The main point of this person makes who is being interviewed is that Germans and Jews owned all the industry and had a monopoly on commerce, before the war.
Since and International report by the American Henry Morgenthau in 1919 found exactly that and that Jews formed the entire middle class in Poland, I don't understand why you can try to make the point you are using this clip.
smitty1863 1 year ago
From what I understand from this interview the interviewers seem to be leading the person on with questions like "Are times happier now there are no Jews or were times happier with Jews?" and "How were you exploited by the Jews?"
smitty1863 1 year ago
I was in Poland either side of 1985 and what I noticed most of all was all those Russian soldiers walking around in their jackboots in all the towns. Imagine a scene from Orwell's 1984, because I've seen it.
It maybe lost on viewers but the country where this interview is taking place was in 1985 UNDER SOVIET OCCUPATION. 1981 had MARTIAL LAW followed by mass arrests of Solidarity members.
In 1984 the state thought nothing of murdering solidarities priest father Jerzy Popieluszko.
smitty1863 1 year ago
people are getting sick 'cuz every time they watch tv - it's all full of jews... nose bobbed jews with plastic surgery to look anglo-goyim... mel gibson made his own movies and thus became a jew-threat... marlon brando told larry king "you can't work in entertainment unless you're jew..." all actresses and actors are jews... all music is jew run - that's why music is so bad today... no goys to copy from... like pre-nazi germany... poles and germans still hate jews to this day... why...?
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Why don't you count the Jews and non-Jews you see on TV in one day and get back to me? I mean, really--just count them. And are you really going to present the rhetoric of at least one notorious anti-Semite (maybe two--I didn't know, or had forgotten, about Brando) as evidence of Jewish domination? That's like quoting a KKK grand dragon (or a Black Panther) as evidence for the virtue of the KKK (or the Black Panthers).
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Also, if the influence of the Jews is, as you suggest, ubiquitous, why on earth would they need or even want to undergo cosmetic surgery in order, as you put it, 'to look anglo-goyim'? Wouldn't non-Jewish White Americans rather be inclined to undergo surgery to look like Jews?! I mean, if you're right about all this, how come every ambitious person in the world isn't rushing to the local rabbi to convert?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@WineBeerLover I was of the understanding that there were also White Christians (and post-Christians) of European descent in both parties too, so what are your premises for attributing the Jewish presence (and only the Jewish presence) in both parties to what you appear to regard as conspiracy?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
Anyway, folks, some of you attack the Jews (or some of them) as owners of capital, some as Communist offenders. These are contradictory roles, and if Jews really have performed them both then clearly neither role is part of the essence of being Jewish. Neither role IS JEWISH. If you dislike all Jews (or even just one) because of what some other Jew(s) may or may not have done, you are not looking at the world analytically enough to make genuine sense of it or to present a strong argument.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
(PART2)
...or how did they behave on the day of the soviet invasion.
I'll just ask You one thing :
IF YOU ARE ABLE TO MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT, WHAT DOES PREVENT ME FROM STATING THAT THERE'S A DEEP HATRED AND PREJUDICE BETWEEN THE JEWISH PEOPLE TOWARDS THE POLES, OR STATING THAT ALL JEWS ARE COMMIES, JUST BECAUSE ONE OF THEM SAID ON THE 17th OF SEPT.'39:
"THESE ARE THE TIMES OF THE MESSIAH...AND THE MESSIAH'S NAME IS STALIN" (documented in a book written by Zerubawel - a JEW)?
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect I could happily track down stupid comments by antisemitic Poles too, but that wouldn't mean they represented Poles in general. It's just poor logic. In my view, you lost the argument(s) before you began, because your logic is poor, your language is sometimes imprecise and sometimes deliberately emotive, and your argument is mostly irrelevant. There were Polish pogroms, etc. long long before Communism, so what was the excuse back then?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
(PART1)
What You're doing here is quite funny.
Because of ONE man (that doesn't even speak a good Polish), that You filmed in '85, You are trying to state that Poles are antisemites (or that there's at least a strong antisemitic feeling in Poland) - right? WORSE OF ALL - In Your statements You're linking all that to the Holocaust, as Poles had something to do with that.
I won't bother You trying to explain who Berman was, or how many Jews lived in Poland in the 30's, or....
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect This is bad logic. This is one example, so you presume it's is the entire basis for my views? Why? How many examples do you want? Is there a magic number at which the argument becomes convincing? And the link between Poland and the Holocaust is just that a lot of it happened in Poland. It's not about Polish responsibility for the Holocaust. But if Poles belittle the Holocaust, the occasional Polish pogroms, etc. just because Poles had a bad time too, they belittle themselves.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
why is it that every european that i've spoken with has horror stories about jews? in north america we hear only of a jewish holocaust... we never get a logical answer for the reason... except that europeans are all crazy nazis and anti-semitic and blame the jews for everything... yet, slowly i hear about things that went on in eastern europe since 1850 that we never see in movies or books here... now, when i look at the plight of the palestinian, i see much hatred and supremism from jews...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
could there be a reason why europeans wanted them gone...? and why the older generation in america did not want them to come here...? have north americans been duped by a very crafty clan of people...? a tight knit racial/religious community that must monopolize everything even though they are only a tiny part of the population...? they are so organized that they can plan for generations...! no one else can make that claim... the media, the markets, the judicial, the political back rooms...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Read my lips. Ge. No. Cide.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
we can't even think in these terms. we simply work to earn our keep and eke out little pleasures from life. we don't sit down in a group and plan for taking over media and power positions. we have personal and familial ambitions, but not racial ambitions. we don't stick together. it's not our way. they organize the medias to dumb us down and keep us occupied while they inundate us with debauchery and pornography and rally for sexual perversion while condemning Christian traditions and morals...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Here we go again. Do you think Christ (the rabbi) would have approved of this notion of Us v. The Jews?! Generalisation, paranoia and judgementalism are not Christian virtues.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
and this is the very argument that jews alway use against goys and shiksas... they use our faith against us... and don't tell me He was one of your rabbis... LOL! jewish rabbis had Him executed by the romans... generalization is how we guard against enemies... is it paranoia when a Christian notices that every media outlet is controlled by a jew...? is it judgemental to see what israel is doing to Christian and Muslim Palestinians...? you're not a very good apologist for jews...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee By the way, I'm not Jewish. I have no rabbis. Either way, Christ clearly was Jewish. The notion of Christianity took centuries to emerge--centuries after Jesus' death. In my view, this does not belittle Christianity or Judaism. It ought to be a cause for people to try to see eye to eye. And you may choose to call whoever (apart from Pilate et al.) caused Jesus' death Jewish, but you could just as well see them as people. (Of course they were Jews. It went with the territory.)
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee And Israel and its actions should not be confused with Jews--any Jews--and their actions. I've said in the past that there are Jews who don't recognise the State of Israel, e.g. because, as far as many are concerned, the Messiah/Moshiach must return before Israel can be restored. Whatever Netanyahu or Israeli forces may be doing in or to Palestine effectively has nothing do with any Orthodox Jew I may pass on the streets of the East End of London. Distinctions must be drawn.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Also, logically, when you say 'we don't stick together' etc. and then go on to say 'they' organise the media and 'they inundate us with debauchery', etc., I suspect it's you who are creating the division at least as much as 'they' are
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
nonsense... faulty logic... you're feigning ignorance to feather your nest... you'd have been more sucessful to give real examples to dispute what the "awakening" north americans are beginning to learn from the internet about jewish domination...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Challenge my logic and you'll have an uphill struggle. You're welcome to present logical arguments (rather than polemic).
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
LOL! jews are stealing land from under the palestinian's feet... and you want a logical argument... mister, the onus is on the jew to explain what the fuck he doing over there in palestine... i have done nothing to explain for... it's the jew who must explain his bizarre behaviour... everywhere the jew goes, there is trouble... because they want everything that they see...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee the jews went there to find your mother pussy but they find out HITLER used ur mom pussy for toilet that is why ur name is SHITLER
freelebenon 1 year ago
@freelebenon
spoken like a true jew... at least i have a mother... you sound like you were shit out of a rabbi's ass...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee was ur mother a dog name YASSER ARAFAT?
freelebenon 1 year ago
@freelebenon
you know better than that... yasser was your mother's anal lover... and you were yasser arafat's bastard love-child...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee haha if i am a jew how can i be Arafat basterd love child u have big problem with projection, you ar the one who love everyone who the jew hates so u must be real Arafat love child. no wonder with logic like yours u probably are a retard
freelebenon 1 year ago
@freelebenon
it appears that you have nothing important to say... just name calling... good thing that you're no one of importance... sharpen up...! and when you get a point... come back...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
otherwise... stop writing to me continually with nothing to say... and stop pretending to be a jew... you're just some wannabee...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee this is my point fuck your mother fuck ur arab sister and fuck ur nazi father in the ass. this is my point and above all Fuck poland
freelebenon 1 year ago
@freelebenon
LOL! i'm neither arab nor polish... you fuckin' little heebie jeebie...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@freelebenon Actually both of you must have been capable of more dignified discussion than this before you even learned to speak
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham don't waist ur time with this Mother fucker polish supporter, he dose not deserve dignified respond just Fuck him up and if he goes to Israel he will be fucked by real fucking jew
freelebenon 1 year ago
@freelebenon I agree, RussMoxham. Just let them be. They are not the audience you seek because they have already closed their minds. Just show t e rest of the world the truth and the worthiness of your cause.
jenethehottie 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee That would work better if you hadn't been throwing out jibes such as 'yasser was your mother's anal lover... and you were yasser arafat's bastard love-child'
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee You appear unable to regard Jews as individuals. It seems that you regard each, at best, as some kind of unappointed ambassador for the Jewish people. I do not. And it is not immediately clear to me how any atrocities that the State of Israel (against the wishes of many enlightened Jews in Israel and beyond) commits against neighbouring peoples can logically be said to reflect on, say, a Hassidic (Charedi) Jew I may pass in the street in Stamford Hill here in London.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Incidentally, who in fact are 'we' here? All non-Jews? Just Christians? US Christians? Disgruntled Klan sympathisers?! In my opinion, this we/they distinction does not stand up, because you can always move one level of analysis away from it and apply the word 'we' to all humanity. Basically we all get born, eat, sleep, have kids, probably pay taxes, and die. Anything else, like religion, is more or less incidental in my view.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
recently, in toronto, canada, the jewish bnai brth spoke out against gypsies emmigrating to canada... they told us that we do not know these kind of people that the gypsies are and that we would regret it... i thougt that was odd, because it was what our grandparents told us... don't let them in - you'll live to regret it... now some of us are beginning to awaken and see for ourselves that jews came to north america to rule... not to be one of us... but to control us... for us to serve them...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
even in canada, the public cannot put up traditional Christmas items because jews don't like it... yet everywhere, there are menorahs... even on public land. they are there to tear down Christmas Trees - but you cannot speak out against menorahs. and they gather to light the menorahs... but no Christmas trees... and the reason...? because of the holocaust and Anne Franck...! Christians are being controlled by the commandments of their own religion... jews take advantage of Christian morals...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee And this is most likely a bullsh*t urban myth that takes various forms in various countries. Here in Britain there is the myth that WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) cannot fly the Union Flag or refer to Christmas because non-Christian immigrants don't like it. Research has shown that there are just as many Christmas decorations as ever, if not more, and whoever thinks the Union Flag or Christmas has been marginalised here has presumably never gone to a UK supermarket
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
you know full well that jews have arranged the banning of all Christian traditions in government and in public displays... you think people on YouTube are so stupid as to confuse Christ with santa clause..?! thanks to jews we now have Merry Xmas... but, didn't Mel Gibson burn a lot of jewish ass when he made his movie of the crucifixion ...? ol' MGM must have been twisting in his grave... LOL!
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee No, I don't know any such thing, and I would thank you for not attempting to read my mind. As for Mel Gibson--well, I thought it was a worthwhile film (although a little sensational in parts), and probably a lot more interesting than many of his fundamental views on religion. The fact remains that Jesus (Yeshua) was a rabbi. Most of the New Testament is devoted to establishing that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah (Moshiach) descended from the House of David.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
you're a fuckin' urban myth...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Either that or just some of them were pretty good at business. This is just stupid. Nobody judges a whole people ('them') on the basis of Warren Buffett's background, or Bill Gates', etc. etc. So how come when a Jew gets rich so many non-Jews start acting as if the sky's caving in, as if it's all a big conspiracy and we're going to hell in a handcart? And so what if some spokesman or organisation said this or that? They're not channelling all world Jewry. This isn't the Borg.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
too much noise for a tiny ethnic group. dragging the U.S. into feuds that harm American people. who enticed terrorists to NYC? why is American taxpayers' money siphoned off to israel? who abused the markets 'til they crashed with Americans' life savings. genocide's a dead foreign issue for 70yrs. not of our doing. jews did something to euro's to make them kill them. do jews care about goys & shiksas? and what of others killed in ages past? why is America marked with the holocaust?
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Listen, I think the Middle East situation is lousy too, but you can hardly blame Israel for the fact that successive US presidents have lacked the courage to confront Israel head on. It's as much the fault of rednecks in the Midwest who cannot imagine existence without God and who believe in some sacrosanct connection between Israel (or the Holy Land, as they might say) and the States. It's because America was settled by puritan Founding Fathers and so on.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Generally, though, in my opinion, many of your comments here are rather too fervent (or rabid) to make any kind of sense worth considering. I can only respond reasonably to the reasonable points. There is a difference between presenting an argument and listing more or less arbitrary (and often extreme) views. That said, all feedback is welcome, because the more feedback there is, the more discussion there is.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
OOOOOHHH!!!!!.....I SEE IT NOW - "communism gave the Jews a chance for equality" - YEAH! I BET! - IT WASN'T A CHANCE FOR "REVENGE", but for "EQUALITY" - COMMIE EQUALITY! Anyone who wants to really see something - at the end sees it! I got who You really are now & won't be bothering you anymore. Please respond me to one just one last question: Did You go to Poland in '85, yes? ..and how much of "commie equality" you have seen? ..so much at the end You had to bring back JUST this "thing" above?
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect There you go again: 'Commie'. You're not going to think about anything logically if you can't even mention it without ridiculing it. I'm not saying I approve(d) of Communism but I can understand why it might have appealed to some of the Jewish intelligentsia who were basically bored of oppression.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
You're wrong again. The Jewish "intellighentsia" was the SMALLEST part of Jewish community that followed in 1939 communism. The BIG part was exactly the low and lowest "class" (GOD! How I hate this word!).
...and if they were so bored of the "Polish oppression" HOW T.F. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT POLAND HELD THE BIGGEST JEWISH COMMUNITY OF THE WORLD IN THOSE DAYS ? - NOW EXPLAIN THE "LOGIC" OF THAT.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect I only made a comment on the intelligentsia, not on anyone else. I can't be wrong without actually making a comment! And I'm not aware that I refer to the 'Polish oppression' to which you do refer here; I have referred to 'oppression' (probably more Russian than Polish, for instance). But many Central/Eastern European Jewish communities had been marginalised and persecuted for centuries when Communism emerged. Many Jews will have seen it as an answer, and they were not alone.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
...AND STOP FOR GOD'S SAKE BRINGING ALWAYS "THE HOLOCAUST" INTO THIS. IT'S YOU, WHO ARE JUSTIFYING CRIMES OF COMMUNIST JEWS WITH THE HOLOCAUST - GET IT FINALLY, THAT THE 2 THINGS ARE SEPARATED.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect Yeah well, basically, I don't think your arguments go very far. You clearly do generalise about 'THE JEWS'--so do you condemn all (non-Jewish) Poles because there were (non-Jewish) Polish Communists? Do you condemn all Russians? Do you condemn all men?! All men and women? Children? Logically, how is any of this even related to (ahem) the Holocaust, which is what my clips are ABOUT?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
ONCE MORE! (What is it the tenth's time?) - I don't condemn ALL Jews, I condemn:
1. those that massacred people in the name of communism;
2. those Jewish communities that gave refuge to the previous ones - NOW - You tell me how many Jews does that make. I don't have any of such "calculator" to count them, but if you add those who murdered to those who gave them refuge, it clerly makes A HELL LOT OF'EM to me.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect That's all very well, but why do you make any of those arguments here? All of this happened after the Holocaust, whereas there were occasional Polish pogroms, etc. long before. You're saying a lot of things that have no bearing on any argument of mine. Presumably you hate (some?) Jewish Communists for what they did? So? I hate Belgian paedophiles, but I don't have anything to say about Belgians in general just because there are some Belgian paedophiles. What is your point?
RussMoxham 1 year ago
ALL European Nations that participated in the IIWW, have some dark spots on their History, BUT - ALL European nations PUBLICLY AND OPENLY DISCUSS about these "spots".
THERE IS ONLY ONE "NATION" THAT DOES NOT DO IT, AND PRETENDS TO HAVE THE CONSCIENCE CLEAR - and THESE ARE THE JEWS.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect Incidentally, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. 'THE JEWS'? Silent about the Second World War? What are you talking about?! In any case, what do you want 'THE JEWS' to say? It would have to be something pretty damning to justify the industrial-scale killing of maybe 6 million of 'THE JEWS'.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ANY JEWISH "HIGH-LEVEL" HISTORIAN TO EVEN TRY TO DEBATE ABOUT JEWISH COLLABORATORS OF THE STALINIST TERROR MACHINE - THAT'S WHAT T.F. I'M TALKING ABOUT - INSTEAD OF POINTING OUT THEIR FINGERS ON EVERYBODY ELSE.
LEARN - DAMN IT! - THAT 6 OR EVEN 100 MILLIONS JEWS KILLED IS NOT BY ANY MEANS SOMETHING THAT JUSTIFIES THE CRIMES OTHER JEWS HAVE DONE, SO DON'T BRING IN AGAIN&AGAIN "THE HOLOCAUST" INTO IT, BECAUSE THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT CAUSE REAL ANTI-SEMITISM.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect I'm not here to debate 'THE CRIMES OTHER JEWS HAVE DONE'. You are. But even if every Jew in the whole world was fairly convicted for theft, murder or anything else, the moment just one of them had a child there would be a person in the world who did not deserve to be judged (let alone murdered by suffocation in the back of a bread van, for instance) for being Jewish. I've said it before and I'll say it again: these are people. Men, women and children. Individuals.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
That's what You still don't get, and that's strange, because it's quite easy to understand:
YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DIVIDE THE MATTER OF POLISH "PREJUDICE" (OF SOME OF THE POLISH PEOPLE) TOWARDS JEWISH PEOPLE, FROM THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN POLAND IN 1939 AND 1944/45 - '53.
Any sort of discussion that tries to GET RID of one half of the story, and keep just the other half, stops being a logical (and even honest) argumentation.
2serveand2protect 1 year ago
@2serveand2protect On one level, I agree, but I fear that in Central and Eastern Europe it's too often the Holocaust that gets neglected (sometimes even denied). What happened in Europe under Soviet rule after the Second World War has no bearing on what happened in the death camps before. In my view, if you say something like, 'It's not only the Jews who had it bad,' you turn murder or even genocide into some kind of contest, and when you do that--again in my opinion--you cheapen humanity.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
it's simple. they let them in and they monopolized business and media. getting rich off Euro's, as with black people in America. renting run-down ghetto buildings and owning factories. jews never work - they use their money to make more money. did these rich, lazy people abuse the germans like the palestinian? all their bosses were jews. they ended up slaves in their own land, owing more money to jews than they could ever repay. the pot boiled over and they killed them...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee Views, views, views. No news. Give me a reasoned argument and not just noise.
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
jews, jews, jews... always in the news...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee I don't know whether you actually intend to sound as if you begrudge the Jews their existence, but that is often the effect your diatribes here have
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@CrackerJackLee I find it interesting that you extol freedom of speech (against menorahs, at least) while at the same time suggesting the Jews make 'too much noise for a tiny ethnic group'. In what sense can they be making too much noise? Do you begrudge them their freedom of expression? Do you think there ought to be some kind of ethnically or religiously weighted self-expression quota?!
RussMoxham 1 year ago
@RussMoxham
no power group, ethnic or otherwise, should be controlling any facet of america... jews are a merely one more power group that monopolize media & entertainment... how do you account for so many jews in one arena...? no one gets in 'less they're jew... ask the late marlon brando... holocaust movies and zionist newspapers are jew culture - not american... go! "express" yourselves in israel... unfortunately to jews, expression is code for control...
CrackerJackLee 1 year ago