Trains are a waste of money. There is no train project that does not lose money. We should not do overpriced government programs to create jobs. Mainly because it doesn't create jobs but just waste tax payer money. This free federal money has to first be taken from taxpayers pockets before they can through it down the drain.
@SenorStrange Then why Japan and Europe has their HSR decades ago and why we don't?And why would HSRs proved to be more effective than planes when Japan's Shinkansen opened in 1964,almost all the airlines between Tokyo and Osaka were cancelled?If you are trolling here then I wish you got roll over by the Californian HSR train
By the way, it's amazing that so many of these Republican politicians, whose campaign contributions come in large part from the oil industry, will lavish money on highways. But, as soon as an electrically-operated train is on the horizon, these people are willing to risk public backlash in order to keep their constituents enslaved to petroleum.
I am a Florida unemployed tea party redneck and I voted Republican all my life. I will never vote for a Republican again. They have not created any jobs and all they have done here in Florida is, test poor people for drugs in low income housing, suspended young boys from from school for wearing baggies pants. Stop funding plan parenthood for women who need those services. Breast cancer testing and other women medical needs. Rick Scott lied about jobs, jobs, jobs. Baldy were are the jobs.
Since this project is so great, everyone in favor of it is welcome to pool their $ and reap the wonderful return on their investment this project will certainly bring.
Also, notice that there is not one private company in line wanting to bid for a contract to provide this service to the public. You know why? Because it is a money losing proposition. Why don't we let the free market decide how people want to travel? Why should the fruits of my labor be confiscated so that someone else can ride HS rail to Disney World? In Jex. we have a monorail downtown. It cost hundreds of millions to build. They have an average of like 40 riders per day.... A waste...
@getagreatjobfast Actually, that's incorrect. All but China and Spain's high speed rail services produce a profit, and most a privatized. There were several bidders prepared to jump onto Florida's high speed service for operations. These companies included, Virgin Rail, Japan Rail, Siemens, Bombardier, Veolia, Keolis, and a few others. After the project was cancelled, a second study was completed by companies to see if the line would make a profit. The result was a $10 million surplus.
@gibb1991 You're saying FOR OPERATIONS. Sure they'll let the taxpayers build and maintain the infrastructure and come in and clean up on the operation. If it's such a PROFITABLE enterprise, then why is there a tax issue? It's NOT really the profit center you're making it out to be. I think you need to go back and sharpen your pencil and take into account all the costs. Hey, if private enterprise wants to create this thing without my money I'm all for it.
@getagreatjobfast There actually wasn't going to be a tax for maintanence. The deal with Florida was that private operators and investors would be responsible for ANY losses on the Florida high speed service line, keeping taxpayers off the hook. The Governor simply wouldn't buy it (it is speculated that his campaign financeers from the oil industry played a large part in that). If it wasn't a profitable industry, why would Ferrari be starting their own high-speed rail company? (continued)...
@getagreatjobfast Why would Eurostar break their long-time partnership with the French government railway (SNCF) to form their own Enterprise and invest in their own fleet? Unfortunately, passenger rail is regulated so heavily in the United States, that we scare private companies away, and the heavy regulations on both freight (until the Staggers Act of 1980) and passenger rail is what killed private passenger service in America in the first place. Please, make sure you understand what...
@getagreatjobfast talking about before you speak on such a matter. And just a side-note, even America's only high-speed service, the "Acela Express," made a massive amount of revanue that was able to cover ALL costs of the Northeast Corridor, including the slight losses of the Northeast Regional trains and it still turned a large profit. So, please, gather credible research before you try to challenge someone who has been watching the industry carefully for many years.
@gibb1991 Obviously you can't read. I don't care what private enterprise does. If someone can build a rail service and make money I'm all FOR it. More power to them. I'm simply tired of seeing our government spend my money on useless projects which makes a small cadre of people wealthy and impoverishes me. Do whatever you want to make money. Just get out of my pocket to do it. Before you respond to my posts with your knee jerk tax and spend responses please take the time to read them.
@getagreatjobfast Obviously, you don't understand how infrastructure projects work. The only infrastructure system that doesn't require federal money is freight rail, but HSR makes money, that's been proven time and time again. If you don't want American money to be involved, then let's cut ALL infrastructure projects. No highways, no airlines, no commuter rail service. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and I read your post thouroughly. Your argument was wrong. Simple as that.
Europe is also more bankrupt than the United States. Thank you Gov. Scott for having guts to stand up to wasteful spending! I have NEVER heard a Floridian say, "I really wish we had high speed rail. I am SO looking forward to riding it. What I see is politicians salivating over billions of dollars to give to their unemployed contractor cousin Vinnie. To those who say FL won't pay a dime for it, I ask how's the bankrupt fed gov't going to pay for it? And don't Floridians pay federal tax?
@evantis121 That is such an ignorant comment. It's easy to just call people names when they don't agree with your socialist outlook. Interesting how the establishment is taking potshots at the "Tea Party" movement. But what is the "Tea Party"? It's just a diverse, grass roots group of citizens who are fed up with the feds out of control spending. Comparing the "Tea Party" to the Taliban is just a poor attempt to paint them in an unfavorable light. You are woefully uninformed.
@getagreatjobfast Say hello to a prolonged recession now the the tea baggers held us all to randsom. Yes, spending must be controlled but no investment means no development means no jobs growth means recession. You are the ignorant person here if you don't understand basic economics.
As a 4th generation Floridian I support Governor Rick Scott's decision to derail Obama's High-speed rail pipe dream. A total waste of Taxpayer dollars. This project will spend billions of tax dollars to further the special interests of Multi Millionaires like State Senator Paula Dockery. Obama's wasteful expenditure of taxpayer dollars is strongly supported by State Sen. Paula Dockery, a native New Yorker who voted & supported record tax increases on Floridians in 2009..
SCOTT......WE SHOULD HAVE BELIEVED THE POLITICAL COMMERCIALS AGAINST YOU........You don't care about any taxpayers......YOU had your palms greased by OIL and CAR interests YOU BANDIT ! ! ! YOU THIEF ! ! !
YOU COMMITTED FRAUD IN THE PAST ! ! ! AND THE PRESENT ! ! !
@sierracuban If this is such a great enterprise, then why doesn't a private company build it and operate it for profit? Because the fact is that no commuter rail lines run at a profit... Why don't we at least have a referendum to see what people in the affected communities think? If they want to pay for a rail line in their community then let them figure out how to pay for it? We can't keep robbing everyone to benefit a few.
@getagreatjobfast There's a very large difference between commuter rail and high-speed rail. The fact that you are unable to distinguish the differences between the two already make me worry. The most viable candidate that was going to operate the system was Virgin Rail (part of Virgin Enterprises that already operates in the UK, owned by world's 9th richest man and famed entrepreneur, Sir Richard Branson). The line would have paid itself off in about 10-15 years with no tax dollars.
@gibb1991 I worry you? Ha ha. Well, worry no further. I don't care what you do with your money. If you want to build a high speed rail service go for it. If you want to start HOT AIR BALOON SERVICE between Orlando and New York be my guest. Just don't ask me to fund it. Is that so much to ask? Be an entrepreneur and let your customers pay for the service. Just leave me out of it.
@getagreatjobfast Ironic that you would mention that, since I am an Entrepreneurship Major planning to start a high-speed logistics operations company. But you still don't seem to understand that the line would have paid itself off (and comparing HSR to a hot air ballon was ignorant), something the airlines and the highways have never done. Would you like to stay out of the airlines business, too? They get $30 billion in subsidies each year alone, enough to build 14 Florida high-speed lines.
@gibb1991 Yes, I would like to stay out of the airline business too. And I would like to get our troops out of the 100+ countries they're stationed. And I'd like to let companies like GM simply fail. It's thinking like yours that has us in debt to bankers for $14+ Trillion (when Congress could give themselves a 0% interest loan!). My hot air balloon comment was not a comparison. For someone who's an "Entrepreneurship Major" you're sure no fan of the free market, are you?
And while we're at it, let's privatize education. At the very least, let's institute a voucher system and encourage some competition. Unlike you, I don't believe that the government is the cure for every ill. And I believe in accountability. Sure, there are some things that NEED and SHOULD be provided for by the community through taxes. I'm not an anarchist. But what you have is the tail wagging the dog with gov't pushing things at us for their gain instead of serving us.
And let's ask the question, "What does the federal government get out of the deal for sending money to Florida for some boondoggle HSR project?" Why are they interested in spending someone else's money for that particular project? And why are YOU paying for my cousin who's on social security because he did a lot of drugs in high school and is too lazy to work? My point is we need to turn off the spigot at some point. You can't keep robbing productive citizens and funding unnecessary stuff.
@getagreatjobfast I agree. But I think Florida's high speed rail project, with the way it was set up and the private investors signing the deal that states they would make up all losses on their own, would have worked and would have been the model for future HSR projects in the USA. Connecting cities faster, more effeciently, and more effectively. Giving people money in temp. jobs that they would spend and in turn cause companies to expand to create perm. jobs and so forth.
@getagreatjobfast What makes you think I believe the government is the solution? You have me all wrong. They're a parasite. They screwed up America's passenger rail network in the first place. I love free market, and the US government needs to only be involved as public-private partnerships (as this project would have turned out to be) at most.
@gibb1991 Well, that's good to know. However, the public-private aspect always turns into the government shoveling money into someone's pocket as a payoff or incentive. The citizens are NEVER benefitted. NEVER. The federal government CERTAINLY should have nothing to do with building HSR in Florida.They can't even do the job they're constitutionally mandated to do, much less build railroads. Personally, I want REPRESENTATIVES, not "leaders" who tell me what they're going to do with my money.
@getagreatjobfast Actually, I 100% agree with you on all of those points, bravo! Although you seem to not believe that my major does not exist, but it does. The guy who owns Papa John's pizza went through the exact same program that I am at the exact same University. It's ranked as one of the top ten in the US. But, the gov. has driven the value of the dollar down so far that's it's nearly impossible for private companies to make their own investments. It's easier to start in Europe!
@gibb1991 No, I believe in the major & I truly wish you the best in building new businesses. My point is that we are killing ourselves with all of this taxation. Yes we need infrastructure, but be careful about what poses as infrastructure. In Norfolk VA they recently installed a commuter rail to nowhere that was fraught with cost overruns and millions of "missing" dollars. I watched daily as trains ran empty. I watch a similar commuter train running empty in downtown Jacksonville FL today.
The answer, I believe, is less government spending. The dollar is worth nothing because the government throws it away on every useless project, runs into debt, and then prints more out of thin air. Well, they have the FEDERAL RESERVE print it, and they pay them INTEREST to borrow it... So, in the big picture, I'm not really against HSR per se, I'm against out of control government spending and the fraud, waste, and abuse inherent in the system.
@getagreatjobfast That right there is an EXCELLENT statement. As I see it, we need to regulate social programs more heavily, deregulate the passenger rail industry and open it up to free market (the gvmt has it highly restricted, another reason private systems are hard to do in the US), cut down on foreign aid, withdraw from places where we are not needed, and so forth. Rebuild America First!
@getagreatjobfast Yes, I agree, there are many rail projects that were not built well at all. However, there are the good ones (Chicago Metra, LA Metrolink, St. Louis Metrolink, Charlotte LINX, etc.) that serve their purpose. I don't know what the hell Norfolk planners were thinking; great idea, poor planning. The rail line is in the wrong place to be effective. But Jacksonville, FL doesn't have commuter rail yet, its still in planning. I think you may have seen a deadhead unit.
@gibb1991 It's a monorail that services downtown and is derided as a waste of taxpayer money by everyone with any sense. It passes by the window of my office every 15 minutes making its loop. If you listen you can hear the money being sucked out of your pocket. Sometimes it has one or two people on it. Usually it's empty. Of course, it creates jobs for the train driver and conductor. And for the ticket collectors in the various booths along the line. And jobs for the maintenance workers.
@getagreatjobfast Ah. Yeah, monorail's aren't really that expensive compared to other systems, but if they're not put in the right place (downtown loops are best or between medical centers like where I live, where it is very successful) it isn't very effective. If a city wants to develop seperated, inner-city transit, subways and streetcars are usually the most effective option.
I'm all for HSR, but please don't use Europe as an example....it simply isn't the same scenario....air travel is cheaper and faster in the US than it is in Europe, thus it is more popular....population density is much different there vs. the USA also.
For those opposed, don't talk about the cost of this as an excuse. Just look at how much you shell out each year in road construction and maintenance? The hypocrisy is defeaning!
@jaggatorpm Its not about population density as a whole. Its about centers of population(metro areas and the distances between them. For example, Madrid (metro pop 6.5m) and Valencia (metro pop 1.7m) are 2.17 miles apart which just got a HSR connection in January 2011. Within one month Iberia, Spains national carrier cancelled ALL Flights as did Europe's cheapest budget airline Ryanair because they couldn't compete with HSR. Basically it beat air travel hands down in every way.
And now those who support the airlines are also out of work. So, there is a net loss of jobs. How does private enterprise compete with the government whose ability to capitalize projects is endless? Of course, government will always result in less efficiency, fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayers' money. Doesn't sound like a win to me. Sounds like government should get out of the transportation business, let the consumer decide what's best, and let private business supply the demand.
@getagreatjobfast You are making sweeping statements that are frankly wrong. Do you think fraud doesn't happen in private enterprize? Do you think airlines pay of airports? like hell they don't. Do you like driving your car? you wouldn't get very far fast without the interstate highway network buit by wait for it......the government. What you don't seem to accept is that private enterprize happens when state infrastructure is in place, take ur example of airports, its the same with HSR lines.
@evantis121 Wrong because you say so? So, now you are the authority? The difference between private business and government is that private businesses don't have the power to put a gun to your head and force you to pay for things you don't want. (Of course, we now have corporatism, but that is a different argument.) So do you think the government should be driving spending decisions, or should the citizens be demanding what government does? I don't hear anyone clamoring for HSR.
@getagreatjobfast Can't you read? There's plenty of comments on this video from people that are angry at Scotts decison to reject the HSR project. Given your posts I can accurately presume that you follow a certain ideology that disregards other peoples opinions. Have a nice life.
GO SENATOR NELSON GO ! ! ! What a MISTAKE I MADE voting for that possible criminal Rick Scott.......The Tea Party NEVER mentions that private enterprise is FULL of scumbags.......GENERAL MOTORS spent millions to kill rail travel starting back in 1922......Where were you Tea Baggers ?????? YOU never mention that.....SCOTT HAS NO RIGHT to be a dictator if Senator Nelson can work out a deal......FLORIDA NEEDS THE JOBS........
@sierracuban The difference is that TRUE private enterprise (the kind that uses its OWN money instead of lobbying Congress and getting taxpayer's money) rises and falls on ITS OWN MERITS AND USES ITS OWN MONEY. Florida needs jobs... So, is stealing more money from working Americans to create an unneeded job on a railway that few people will use going to really help the loss of jobs? Government cannot CREATE jobs. Government TAKES money from people who earn it rightfully and squanders it.
@getagreatjobfast REALLY ??? Tell that to President F.D.R. who used millions of dollars to get us out of the Great Depression.........And I am no admirer of F.D.R. And what about the BILLIONS of taxpayer money used for the Interstate Highways Act of 1956 ???? MONEY FOR TRAINS NO ! ! !
MONEY FOR HIGHWAYS AND TO BUTCHER PEOPLE IN SENSELESS WARS YES ! ! !
they want to build a high speed train to carry ghosts to and fro! no one except people going to disney and people using the airports would use it. then they say the feds would pay for it! there is no way that this would be completed using the money the feds offered and the balance would fall on florida taxpayers. well done governor, it took incredible courage to do the right thing when so many people have been brainwasshed into the ideas of high speed rtail and keynesian stimulus!
@evantis121 so you want to here(sic) my ideas? why, you've already been brainwashed by those who would make huge profits constructing this train. you've definitely been brainwashed into believing that keynesian stimulus works to create jobs (dept of edu taught you all that garbage about how fdr saved the world) lastly, there's a good possibility that you've never been to orlando or tampa and would therefore never understand why this would just be another govt white elephant!
@58robbo Sounds like your just full of hot air, bleating about this and that like a spoilt child yet not coming up with any ideas yourself. You blindly follow an ideology of know nothing, do nothing. Prove us wrong and give us your ideas of how extra capacity can be added to the transport infrastructure that doesn't involve public capital.
@evantis121 interstate 595 in south florida. costing the taxpayer a pittance compared to this ridiculous boodoggle. like i said though, they were quite thorough in your brainwashing. i know this because i was once on your side of the argument. i then tried something revolutionary called 'thinking for myself'. you should try it sometime
@58robbo Hmm, attempting to compare 12 miles of extra freeway lanes versus 84 miles of High Speed rail....its hardly a good comparison. I notice you haven't even offered any substantiated costs either. You'll need to do better than that.
@evantis121 now why would i waste my time doing that. you are so far gone there isn't a point. this is not to say that i'm opposed to hsr because i'm not. what i'm opposed to is govt funding of the project. i don't see how you can morally take money out of poor peoples pockets in other parts of florida and the country, to pay for people to go from tampa to orlando on a train which is a little faster than the ones which already exist that no one uses.
@58robbo Thank you, thank you, thank you. Glad to see there is someone else out there who gets it. Why don't we all just let the market decide instead of robbing people to pay some state senator's out of work contractor uncle?
@getagreatjobfast the state senators uncle is pretty pissed. i'll tell you who else is peeved, disney and the cruise liners. if you've ever been to orlando and tampa you will know that this line was only meant as a shuttle to take cruise travellers to disney, PERIOD. perhaps some of the lawmakers were promised high level jobs at disney too.
@gibb1991 you forget the people that people actually use I-595, unlike the ghost train they were planning on building. Also, motorists already pay their user fees, it's called the gas tax. I do however have to concede that you've a point. I think the feds and states should get out of the road building\maintaining business. interstates would then be totally private and each county, town,city could fund their own internal roads however they'd like. the gas tax would have to go though
@58robbo Although I do agree that more roads should at least be constructed with private investments, or public-private partnerships, an entire national network of roadways wouldn't be able to financially sustain itself. Our current highway network requires $41 billion in subsidies each year (almost enough to build the entire California HSR System from scratch).
@58robbo People use I-595 because they have no other options. I think the high-speed train would have been wildly successful with direct access to Disney World. Florida has the largest tourist market in the world, and in America, the bullet train itself may have become an attraction. So calling it a "ghost train" before it was even built is a statement resulting from misinformation.
@58robbo public private partnerships are the root of many problems. if anyone wants to make money developing a road, they must finance it themselves. i personally don't agree with any subsidies. many would argue that a lot of roads wouldn;t exist then, my response would be that if a road cannot pay for itself, it shouldn;t be there. if the govt didn;t subsidize or pay for roads,bridges, rail, airports, bicycle paths etc the most efficient mix would arise in the marketplace
It wasn't Scott Faults it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which Tea party saying no to HSR so after Rick listen to Sharon and Karen then thats when he decided to kill the high speed rail. Rick pay no attention to these girls now wake up, Stand up, And Get some Balls.
@sideslide23 THANK YOU SIDESLIDE......WE WILL WIN THIS......Too bad Miami is so far from Tallahassee or you would have me there with a BIG sign......However, I have called Senator Nelson's office in Washington D.C. and I left him an encouraging message.....I have also sent e-mails to Governor Scott and to our good friend Florida Senator Dockery........I will keep up the e-mails and calls.......
WE MUST GET OUT IN FORCE FOR FLORIDA........WE NEED THE JOBS.........Sierra Cuban, Miami, FL
GENERAL MOTORS, OIL COMPANIES AND TIRE COMPANIES starting back in the 1920's created a company called NATIONAL CITY LINES for the sole purpose of buying up rail lines and junking them.......This IS NOT taught to our innocent children in school.....An antitrust lawsuit was filed during the Truman years, but by then it was too late...The year was 1922 when this conspiracy started, and the name of the man was Alfred P. Sloan Jr. of GM......Standard Oil and Firestone were in on it also.....FACT ! !
HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ???? NO WAY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS........Don' t you know that to be a REAL American you must think like General Motors and Ford ??? You commies ! ! Hands off my Chevy Truck you hippies ! ! OK.....Now let 's get serious : Did anyone out there know that in the 1920's General Motors and the tire companies created a company called ironically National City Lines to quietly buy up the rail trolley lines ??
HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ?? WHY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN SCUMBAGS ! ! ! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT TO BE A REAL AMERICAN YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE GENERAL MOTORS AND FORD ??? OTHERWISE YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO YOUR COUNTRY.....HANDS OFF MY CHEVY PICK UP YOU COMMIES .....NOW, LET'S GET SERIOUS : FACT : IN THE 1940's GENERAL MOTORS AND THE TIRE COMPANIES CREATED A COMPANY CALLED IRONICALLY " NATIONAL RAIL LINES " WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TAKING APART OUR PUBLIC TROLLEYS.....DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ?? WHY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN SCUMBAGS ! ! ! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT TO BE A REAL AMERICAN YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE GENERAL MOTORS AND FORD ??? OTHERWISE YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO YOUR COUNTRY.....HANDS OFF MY CHEVY PICK UP YOU COMMIES .....NOW, LET'S GET SERIOUS : FACT : IN THE 1940's GENERAL MOTORS AND THE TIRE COMPANIES CREATED A COMPANY CALLED IRONICALLY " NATIONAL RAIL LINES " WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TAKING APART OUR PUBLIC TROLLEYS.....DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
@sierracuban yes we can turn this around, you only got till Feb 25 which is this Friday because thats when the bill will go to other states like California, Nevada, New York, and other states that wants HSR it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which did the Tea party to Rick Scott to stop the High speed rail project, Thanks to these two Witches.
JUST YOU WAIT............When gasoline reaches five to seven dollars per gallon, the enemies of mass transportation will hide under their beds.....People are in denial about the future of fossil fuels.....SCOTT did not even give private enterprise the chance to speak to him.....He just killed it......RICK CARES NOT about the unemployed Floridians.....It was a mistake to elect a millionaire.....
@sierracuban it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which was behind this, they started the Tea party saying no to HSR to Rick so that what made Rick Decision to stop HSR project before any Shovel touches the foudation.
the acceptance of the voters ,previous governor ,and the whole of the legislature should be upheld!!The citizens of florida have voted in two referendums for high speed rail..over 63 percent of voters want this and voted for it..our governor is subverting the will of florida voters and has lost 24,000 shovel ready jobs just on the surface.This train would be a huge attraction for tourists..our main industry..governor rick scott is a short sighted and subverting the will of voters.
Its time to RECALL RICK. A) if he's so concerned with the federal government, he should have run for congress and not state governor and B) any governor who rejects programs to create jobs in our current situation has no business being our governor. RECALL RICK.
Much as I am a fan of high speed rail and have travelled in them while in Europe and East Asia, I'd like to question the motivations behind the US latest push for high speed rail. Is it 1) because Europe/Jpn and now even China have them, so "we must also have" mentality in order not to lose out, esp to China? OR 2) high speed rail does create many more n immed jobs than other tpt devpts? OR 3) is there a hidden agenda by Amtrak/state governors akin to China's railway recent corruption case?
@ymhktravel It could look that way but there are two main factors why investment is planned for HSR in the US
1. Competition - our largest global competitors are investing heavily in HSR because it gives them the ability to move people far more effectively and efficiently that either highways or by air.
2. Energy security - the EU, China and Japan like America imports vast quantities of oil. They are reliant on the good will of others to keep their economies going.
@sideslide23 Porsche, Lamborghini, I am too poor and have been out of work too long for these names to even enter into my thoughts. Nice try though. I am however a master electrician which nets me many auto neglects when applying for jobs due to "Over qualification". Try explaining that to your hungry children. This railway was a major source of jobs for at least five years for many people.
I am a believer that as we progress with time and technology, if you build, people will eventually take to it. It's like before there were subways, people were very used to travelling ard in what we now call "vintage cars". When subways and slow trains came ard, we took to them, although not immediately so. But once we get used to the idea of travelling in it, it becomes another viable travelling option. Perhaps could just build 1 hispeed rail first on the most viable line to test.
@quizerry Yeah, just like they built the interstate system or our airports. That argument is pathetic. You must try harder to justify being so backward.
@quizerry If roads and highways are proitable why doesn't the private sector build them? Because they are NOT profitable. But YOU do subsidize BIG OIL's monopoly with your tax dollars because you like to be a fat slobb who doesn't walk the least bit but drives around in their personal car even around the corner burning fuel non-stop. Government designs life situations so that you will DEMAND what they want. When you reject alternatives to roads you are only tightening the noose on ur throat.
@DaaYay There are private highways in many States. Google Indiana private roads Also we need to privatize our airports Canada, UK ,Rome all have private airports that are much nicer then ours and yes they make profits.
@quizerry Okay, so here's the question. Did these private companies build the infrastructure and use their own money to build them? Or did the Government build them and then they (private companies) took control later? I don't know of any private companies that are anxious to get into the road building and tolling business.
@DaaYay Ya, me too. I do not know of any private co. in the world is the provider of public infrastructure such as roads and bridges. It's usually done by the govt. If you wait for profit-oriented private companies to provide public goods, it will never come about because the returns will take a long long time to happen. And private co. will not want to wait that long. At best it's like a 80% govt, 20% pvt investment.
@quizerry Theses airports you refer to were build entirely with public money and then sold on long franchises to recoup some of their development costs. The truth of the matter is that major infrastructure needs government support whether it be highways, airports or HSR lines.
@quizerry The American air system does not turn a profit. Our air system alone required $30 billion in subsidies this past year, the highways required $41 billion (compare to our passenger rail networks $1.2 billion, and profits made by the Acela Express service).
@chronicman06 we only got 8 days to convence Scott to Change his mind, because other alternative would be even more costly to tax payers because they would have to widen up the highway or build double decker highways, and Drivers will have to pay congestion pricing, so you only got 8 days to get Scott to change his mind or Florida is Screwed.
well if you guy's continuos vote for kind of governors like that we not go ing to have a job for the rest of our life's,it will be florida in the future homeless.
Too much of a risk? Not enough of a return? This guy has obviously doesn't pay attention to the real world. Florida has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. This would not only have opened up thousands of jobs that we desperately need, but would have in the long term would have saved on the amount spent on maintaining highways as there would be more people taking the train than driving on the road. I have never been more proud of not voting for someone in my life!
"Our state and country cannot continue spending borrowed money on every new idea that comes along" - Marco Rubio
New idea? He thinks that HSR is a NEW idea? It's been around for over half a century! And HSR has been upgraded, refined, matured, and perfected over and over for those 50 years.
People ride it. Businesses are built on it. Revenue is generated from it. If it were such a bad idea, Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens, etc. would have left the business long ago, back when it WAS a new idea!
@evantis121. I was on the Maglev when it hit 431 kmh = 268 mph not 168 mph (even took a picture - wikipedia 'Shanghai Maglev Train'). Its a waste of money until gas is $6-8/gallon. The Maglev was $40 USD each way - if that were the price of the high speed rail Tampa to Orlando, no one would ride. Its cheaper to drive. Also, the international standard currently is 150 mph to be considered HIGH SPEED RAIL. We're not even close.
I thought that Wisconsin turning away just under $1 billion was a foolish decision. Now, Florida has turned away $2.5 billion? This is like saying no to a free Lexus because taxpayers will be "stuck with the gasoline bill".
Anyway, I'm torn. As an HSR advocate, I wish Florida could have built their system, just to have the first HSR up and running somewhere in the USA. But as a Californian, I see more money coming our way to get our train built here.
Having lived in Bangkok for over six years and riding the BTS and MRT daily (Siemens) I was really excited about Florida and other states getting High Speed Rail projects going. Maybe Chicago and Illinois can get the project which makes it easier on everyone. America needs world-class public transportation systems, especially Chicago. The "L" is awful.The good people of Florida deserve better.
I rode the Maglev in China - which gets you from Shanghai airport to downtown Shanghai in less than 12 minutes (270 mph) - roughly 50 miles away. The high speed rail in Florida was only going to go 90 mph. In order to be considered high-speed rail in Europe its 150 mph. Amtrak already goes 60 mph . . . this project didn't make any sense from the get go!
@bwheeler83 Correction, it tops out at 168MPH which is High Speed. High speed rail is NOT based on averaged speeds as average speeds are dependent on distance between stops. Its actually based on the top speed of the train and the speed capability of the rail line itself.
In short, high-speed rail is more than five times more expensive than any of the alternatives. Since most high-speed rail stations will be in downtowns, the main users will be downtown workers such as lawyers, bankers, and government officials. Yet less than 8% of American jobs are in central city downtowns, meaning all Americans will subsidize trains used by only a small urban elite.
@quizerry Er, no, rail stations are located in city center locations because it makes use of existing road and public infrastructure which is traditionally radiates out of the city center. I wonder how many American's have jobs in airports.
The Republicans across this country are literally set on forcing America to commit suicide! Not only is high speed rail a job creator but once it is built it will boost the economies everywhere it stops! The Interstate System across the country is jammed up everywhere especially during rush hour & this would help with that as well. The ONLY reason many Republicans object is bc Obama supports it! Just like Health Care Mandate, Cap-n-Trade & other policies! Republicans are wrong for America!!
@Viracocha711 While high speed rail sounds romantic, high-speed rail proposals are high cost, high-risk megaprojects that promise little or no congestion relief, energy savings, or other environmental benefits. Taxpayers and politicians should be wary of any transportation projects that cannot be paid for out of user fees. Taxpayers would be on the hook forever. We had a huge rail system in the 30s and 40s it failed because people prefer to drive.
@quizerry there is nothing "romantic" about high speed rail. America's competitors are building high speed rail networks because its fuel efficient, boosts productivity, offers alternatives to squeezing into tiny aircraft seats or getting stuck in 10 mile traffic jams and give's their economies increased competitiveness.
@quizerry It is more than "romantic" especially from Orlando to Tampa!! High speed rail would allow tourist to see more than they otherwise would & places like Atlanta could be just an hour or so away from Savannah To say folks would use high speed rail is almost like saying folks would not fly if the prices were cheaper...Of course people will use it & everywhere they are built the economies will benefit! Plus, it would provide many much needed jobs!
Old Rail failed because cars advanced well beyond "The old Time Rail" LOL
These high speed car cars travel at 250mph VS less then 60mph for an old time rail. Have you ever drove from Orlando to Tampa? You have any idea how much faster this system would be. Since I do have my own business I travel a lot...I know
btw, Old rail never failed it spurred growth across the entire US... then become obsolete do to car advancements. Now we have rail advancements again... China is laughing
@buddry007 The Florida Department of Transportation predicts 96 percent of the people riding its proposed Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed train would otherwise drive; only 4 percent will be new travelers. With 50 million people visiting Central Florida each year, high-speed rail will increase business by less than .25 percent. Florida has a $3-billion shortfall. To pay for the trains, the state must either raise taxes or cut budgets for education, social services and other programs.
@buddry007 The cost to build high speed rail is $31 to $67 million per mile. User fees would have to be enormous to cover cost. High-speed rail should be killed before it diverts tens of billions of transportation dollars into a black hole, producing negligible benefits.
So much of this debate is guided by a provincial notion in America that the only way to travel is by car or air. Despite the fact that other countries are succeeding with high-speed rail and breaking the habit of importing oil from the Middle East, America watches the future pass us by as we nurture old prejudices and fears. What's really happening here is that Rush Limbaugh fans are doing whatever they can to sabotage every important step forward of Obama in order to engineer his failure.
@johnwhester Interstates paid for themselves out of gas taxes, and most Americans use them almost every day. Moderate or high-speed rail would require everyone to subsidize trains that would serve only a small elite. High-speed rail moves virtually no freight and carries the average resident of Japan less than 400 miles per year, and the average resident of France less than 300 miles per year. It is likely that a few people use them a lot, but most rarely or not at all.
@quizerry As you acknowledge, interstates are subsidized by a gas tax. They are certainly no free lunch. We pay high external costs to both the environment and to national security in order to keep chugging along on the highways. I'm not sure where you got your "five times more expensive" data, but I don't think that is true. (See: Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation at wikipedia)
@johnwhester Where highway subsidies average less than a penny per passenger mile, and subsidies to flying are even lower, Amtrak costs taxpayers 22cents per passenger mile and urban transit costs 61 cents per passenger mile. Go to the Washington federal transit national data base. Also The Dept of Energy says that boosting Amtrak trains to higher speeds will make them less energy-efficient and more polluting than driving. Cars are become more energy efficient while trains are not.
@quizerry gas tax only covers approximately HALF the cost of interstate upkeep. HSR is not meant to move any freight, its for passenger travel exclusively. Thats why is the safes form of mass transport EVER. There hasn't been one fatality on Japan's HSR network in over 50 years!!!!
I wonder how many Floridians were killed on the states highways this week??
@johnwhester High-speed rail has done little to change European travel habits. In 1980, intercity rail accounted for 8.2 percent of passenger travel in the 15 countries in the European Union at the time. By 2000, the share had declined to 6.3 percent, and it has fallen further since then. While automobiles have modestly gained market share in the real challenge to high-speed rail has come from low cost airlines. In Japan 1965 and 2005, per capita driving increased by more than 900%.
@quizerry Lies, lies and more lies. High speed rail is booming in Europe. Its giving real choice to travelers. instead of painful air journeys of tiresome car journeys Europeans have fast comfortable alternative getting between their cities. Ryanair, Europe's cheapest airline followed Spain's national carrier Iberia this week by pulling out of their Madrid to Valencia route ONE MONTH after high speed rail commenced!!
I've used UK,French and Italian high speed networks and they are superb.
@evantis121 High-speed rail is an obsolete technology that is good for neither the environment nor personal mobility. High-speed rail is slower than flying, less convenient than driving, and at least five times more expensive. It is only feasible with heavy taxpayer subsidies. Of all the rail systems in Europe and Asia only two make money the rest are heavily subsidizes by tax payers. American drives for 85 percent of their travel the average European 79 percent not much difference.
@evantis121 High-speed rail has done little to change European travel habits. In 1980, intercity rail accounted for 8.2 percent of passenger travel in the 15 countries in European Union By 2000, the share in those countries had declined to 6.3 percent, and it has fallen further since then. Meanwhile, autos have gained market share in recent decades. But the real challenge to high-speed rail has come from low-cost airlines. The trains cost much more then air travel.
@evantis121 Yes it is great for tourist but In the European Union as a whole, the average resident travels only about 100 miles per year by rail. The rail's declining importance in Europe has come about despite onerous taxes on driving, taxes is used to subsidize rail. Because of limited ridership on high-speed rail, it has done little to relieve highway congestion. "Not a single high-speed track built to date has had any perceptible impact on the road traffic carried by parallel motorways.
@quizerry ha ha the Cato and Heritige institutes, hardly a valid source considering they receive funding from various vested interests including oil companies.
@evantis121 I've used many of their rail systems they are great for tourist but the fact is they are heavily subsidized by taxes and they aren't cheap fares. People there even with high gas prices prefer to drive. That is exactly what happened here 50 years ago and why our private railroads shut (down except for the government backed Amtrak who hasn't made a profit in 50 years.)
@quizerry Amtrak hasn't even been around for 50 years! And in fact, all true high-speed rail lines except China's and Spain's turn a profit, and most have private or public-private operators. Even the USA's own high speed service, the "Acela Express," brought in enough revanue to cover all costs of the NEC (even the losses of the NE Regional) and still turned a profit. Your statement that says most Europeans still prefer to drive is really ridiculous. #1 mode of transit in Europe is rail.
@evantis121 I AGREE WITH YOU EVANTIS.......Scott is being a knucklehead.......HIGH SPEED RAIL will work......Let me ask the Tea Party a question : Where the hell were you in 1922 when a man by the name of
ALFRED P. SLOAN JR of GENERAL MOTORS created a company by the name of National City lines with the SOLE purpose of buying up rail companies and tearing them up ??? Where were you Tea Partiers ?? You say that you are for the people YOU HYPOCRITES.......WE NEED JOBS NOW ! ! !
@evantis121 And China is also constructing them all over the country. And they are beating America in green energy. But I hope criminal Scott and the other punk get to screw everybody, all the idiots who voted them in.
@evantis121 heres what more painfull than air travelers and Driving is riding Greyhound bus, because Greyhound bus are very unconfortable there very stinky they smell like jail house.
This would have been a pretty easy project to build. They've got the right of way in the middle of the freeway. They had the federal funding. They had private companies ready to assume responsibility for cost overruns and ongoing subsidies (maybe because they felt those problems wouldn't happen).
Thank you so very much! We applaude your bold decision to turn away billions of dollars in federal money so it can be better spent on other, more deserving projects around the country. With your choice, you have shown your dedication and resolve in guiding government toward a more desirable course. We will long remember your unwavering dedication to your fiscal convictions, and the tremendous aid you have done in serving our state.
If the private sector was eager and ready to build it, why does the government need to spend $5 billion in the program? Congratulations to Governor Scott for intelligent, long-range thinking and brave decision-making. High speed rail is a boondoggle and a giant waste of money every time it's been tried.
@bigmonkey012 if highways were a revenue generator or for that matter airports then why doesn't private companies build those?? If you really cared about overspending you should support HSR as it reduces oil imports which helps re balance the trade deficit.
Trains are a waste of money. There is no train project that does not lose money. We should not do overpriced government programs to create jobs. Mainly because it doesn't create jobs but just waste tax payer money. This free federal money has to first be taken from taxpayers pockets before they can through it down the drain.
SenorStrange 6 months ago
@SenorStrange Then why Japan and Europe has their HSR decades ago and why we don't?And why would HSRs proved to be more effective than planes when Japan's Shinkansen opened in 1964,almost all the airlines between Tokyo and Osaka were cancelled?If you are trolling here then I wish you got roll over by the Californian HSR train
InfinityR319 5 months ago
@SenorStrange hi. this is buttsex santa calling. want some free buttsex?
MrEiriku 5 months ago
@SenorStrange
Got that right, I Enjoy high speed rail, but it should be free market decision, not the government
jmjfanss 3 months ago
omg u americans are a bunch idiots!
dabamana 6 months ago
Along with the 2000 US Presidential election, this is another reason to laugh at Florida..
KyuuA4 8 months ago
Boomdoogle, Scott can suck womens Boobdoogle for killing the project.
sideslide23 8 months ago
By the way, it's amazing that so many of these Republican politicians, whose campaign contributions come in large part from the oil industry, will lavish money on highways. But, as soon as an electrically-operated train is on the horizon, these people are willing to risk public backlash in order to keep their constituents enslaved to petroleum.
CommunityBuildersSB 8 months ago
If I was Floridian, I'd be embarrassed.
CommunityBuildersSB 8 months ago
I am a Florida unemployed tea party redneck and I voted Republican all my life. I will never vote for a Republican again. They have not created any jobs and all they have done here in Florida is, test poor people for drugs in low income housing, suspended young boys from from school for wearing baggies pants. Stop funding plan parenthood for women who need those services. Breast cancer testing and other women medical needs. Rick Scott lied about jobs, jobs, jobs. Baldy were are the jobs.
jhnwllms47 8 months ago 2
Since this project is so great, everyone in favor of it is welcome to pool their $ and reap the wonderful return on their investment this project will certainly bring.
Nobama0000 11 months ago
What a biased and one-sided news segment, actually it's an editorial. ABC Action news is a joke.
Nobama0000 11 months ago
Also, notice that there is not one private company in line wanting to bid for a contract to provide this service to the public. You know why? Because it is a money losing proposition. Why don't we let the free market decide how people want to travel? Why should the fruits of my labor be confiscated so that someone else can ride HS rail to Disney World? In Jex. we have a monorail downtown. It cost hundreds of millions to build. They have an average of like 40 riders per day.... A waste...
getagreatjobfast 11 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Actually, that's incorrect. All but China and Spain's high speed rail services produce a profit, and most a privatized. There were several bidders prepared to jump onto Florida's high speed service for operations. These companies included, Virgin Rail, Japan Rail, Siemens, Bombardier, Veolia, Keolis, and a few others. After the project was cancelled, a second study was completed by companies to see if the line would make a profit. The result was a $10 million surplus.
gibb1991 7 months ago
@gibb1991 You're saying FOR OPERATIONS. Sure they'll let the taxpayers build and maintain the infrastructure and come in and clean up on the operation. If it's such a PROFITABLE enterprise, then why is there a tax issue? It's NOT really the profit center you're making it out to be. I think you need to go back and sharpen your pencil and take into account all the costs. Hey, if private enterprise wants to create this thing without my money I'm all for it.
getagreatjobfast 7 months ago
@getagreatjobfast There actually wasn't going to be a tax for maintanence. The deal with Florida was that private operators and investors would be responsible for ANY losses on the Florida high speed service line, keeping taxpayers off the hook. The Governor simply wouldn't buy it (it is speculated that his campaign financeers from the oil industry played a large part in that). If it wasn't a profitable industry, why would Ferrari be starting their own high-speed rail company? (continued)...
gibb1991 7 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Why would Eurostar break their long-time partnership with the French government railway (SNCF) to form their own Enterprise and invest in their own fleet? Unfortunately, passenger rail is regulated so heavily in the United States, that we scare private companies away, and the heavy regulations on both freight (until the Staggers Act of 1980) and passenger rail is what killed private passenger service in America in the first place. Please, make sure you understand what...
gibb1991 7 months ago
@getagreatjobfast talking about before you speak on such a matter. And just a side-note, even America's only high-speed service, the "Acela Express," made a massive amount of revanue that was able to cover ALL costs of the Northeast Corridor, including the slight losses of the Northeast Regional trains and it still turned a large profit. So, please, gather credible research before you try to challenge someone who has been watching the industry carefully for many years.
gibb1991 7 months ago
@gibb1991 Obviously you can't read. I don't care what private enterprise does. If someone can build a rail service and make money I'm all FOR it. More power to them. I'm simply tired of seeing our government spend my money on useless projects which makes a small cadre of people wealthy and impoverishes me. Do whatever you want to make money. Just get out of my pocket to do it. Before you respond to my posts with your knee jerk tax and spend responses please take the time to read them.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
Comment removed
gibb1991 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@getagreatjobfast Obviously, you don't understand how infrastructure projects work. The only infrastructure system that doesn't require federal money is freight rail, but HSR makes money, that's been proven time and time again. If you don't want American money to be involved, then let's cut ALL infrastructure projects. No highways, no airlines, no commuter rail service. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about and I read your post thouroughly. Your argument was wrong. Simple as that.
gibb1991 6 months ago
Europe is also more bankrupt than the United States. Thank you Gov. Scott for having guts to stand up to wasteful spending! I have NEVER heard a Floridian say, "I really wish we had high speed rail. I am SO looking forward to riding it. What I see is politicians salivating over billions of dollars to give to their unemployed contractor cousin Vinnie. To those who say FL won't pay a dime for it, I ask how's the bankrupt fed gov't going to pay for it? And don't Floridians pay federal tax?
getagreatjobfast 11 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Wow, ease off on the tea bagging there, you're making the taliban look moderate.
evantis121 11 months ago
@evantis121 That is such an ignorant comment. It's easy to just call people names when they don't agree with your socialist outlook. Interesting how the establishment is taking potshots at the "Tea Party" movement. But what is the "Tea Party"? It's just a diverse, grass roots group of citizens who are fed up with the feds out of control spending. Comparing the "Tea Party" to the Taliban is just a poor attempt to paint them in an unfavorable light. You are woefully uninformed.
getagreatjobfast 7 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Say hello to a prolonged recession now the the tea baggers held us all to randsom. Yes, spending must be controlled but no investment means no development means no jobs growth means recession. You are the ignorant person here if you don't understand basic economics.
evantis121 6 months ago
haha Rick Scott screwed up.
Rickyrab 1 year ago
As a 4th generation Floridian I support Governor Rick Scott's decision to derail Obama's High-speed rail pipe dream. A total waste of Taxpayer dollars. This project will spend billions of tax dollars to further the special interests of Multi Millionaires like State Senator Paula Dockery. Obama's wasteful expenditure of taxpayer dollars is strongly supported by State Sen. Paula Dockery, a native New Yorker who voted & supported record tax increases on Floridians in 2009..
spatter188 1 year ago
The train would have cost 20 times what they say. Most of the jobs are only temporary. Good for Rick Scott for doing this.
TELEVISIONARCHIVES 1 year ago
These "jobs" just pay for themselves? Billions spent on a stupid idea are a waste of money, and TAKE jobs away from the other companies.
jeffmonc2 1 year ago
SCOTT......WE SHOULD HAVE BELIEVED THE POLITICAL COMMERCIALS AGAINST YOU........You don't care about any taxpayers......YOU had your palms greased by OIL and CAR interests YOU BANDIT ! ! ! YOU THIEF ! ! !
YOU COMMITTED FRAUD IN THE PAST ! ! ! AND THE PRESENT ! ! !
sierracuban 1 year ago
@sierracuban If this is such a great enterprise, then why doesn't a private company build it and operate it for profit? Because the fact is that no commuter rail lines run at a profit... Why don't we at least have a referendum to see what people in the affected communities think? If they want to pay for a rail line in their community then let them figure out how to pay for it? We can't keep robbing everyone to benefit a few.
getagreatjobfast 7 months ago
@getagreatjobfast There's a very large difference between commuter rail and high-speed rail. The fact that you are unable to distinguish the differences between the two already make me worry. The most viable candidate that was going to operate the system was Virgin Rail (part of Virgin Enterprises that already operates in the UK, owned by world's 9th richest man and famed entrepreneur, Sir Richard Branson). The line would have paid itself off in about 10-15 years with no tax dollars.
gibb1991 7 months ago
@gibb1991 I worry you? Ha ha. Well, worry no further. I don't care what you do with your money. If you want to build a high speed rail service go for it. If you want to start HOT AIR BALOON SERVICE between Orlando and New York be my guest. Just don't ask me to fund it. Is that so much to ask? Be an entrepreneur and let your customers pay for the service. Just leave me out of it.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Ironic that you would mention that, since I am an Entrepreneurship Major planning to start a high-speed logistics operations company. But you still don't seem to understand that the line would have paid itself off (and comparing HSR to a hot air ballon was ignorant), something the airlines and the highways have never done. Would you like to stay out of the airlines business, too? They get $30 billion in subsidies each year alone, enough to build 14 Florida high-speed lines.
gibb1991 6 months ago
@gibb1991 Yes, I would like to stay out of the airline business too. And I would like to get our troops out of the 100+ countries they're stationed. And I'd like to let companies like GM simply fail. It's thinking like yours that has us in debt to bankers for $14+ Trillion (when Congress could give themselves a 0% interest loan!). My hot air balloon comment was not a comparison. For someone who's an "Entrepreneurship Major" you're sure no fan of the free market, are you?
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
And while we're at it, let's privatize education. At the very least, let's institute a voucher system and encourage some competition. Unlike you, I don't believe that the government is the cure for every ill. And I believe in accountability. Sure, there are some things that NEED and SHOULD be provided for by the community through taxes. I'm not an anarchist. But what you have is the tail wagging the dog with gov't pushing things at us for their gain instead of serving us.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
And let's ask the question, "What does the federal government get out of the deal for sending money to Florida for some boondoggle HSR project?" Why are they interested in spending someone else's money for that particular project? And why are YOU paying for my cousin who's on social security because he did a lot of drugs in high school and is too lazy to work? My point is we need to turn off the spigot at some point. You can't keep robbing productive citizens and funding unnecessary stuff.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast I agree. But I think Florida's high speed rail project, with the way it was set up and the private investors signing the deal that states they would make up all losses on their own, would have worked and would have been the model for future HSR projects in the USA. Connecting cities faster, more effeciently, and more effectively. Giving people money in temp. jobs that they would spend and in turn cause companies to expand to create perm. jobs and so forth.
gibb1991 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast What makes you think I believe the government is the solution? You have me all wrong. They're a parasite. They screwed up America's passenger rail network in the first place. I love free market, and the US government needs to only be involved as public-private partnerships (as this project would have turned out to be) at most.
gibb1991 6 months ago
@gibb1991 Well, that's good to know. However, the public-private aspect always turns into the government shoveling money into someone's pocket as a payoff or incentive. The citizens are NEVER benefitted. NEVER. The federal government CERTAINLY should have nothing to do with building HSR in Florida.They can't even do the job they're constitutionally mandated to do, much less build railroads. Personally, I want REPRESENTATIVES, not "leaders" who tell me what they're going to do with my money.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Yeah, unfortunately, that always seems to be how it turns out.
gibb1991 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Actually, I 100% agree with you on all of those points, bravo! Although you seem to not believe that my major does not exist, but it does. The guy who owns Papa John's pizza went through the exact same program that I am at the exact same University. It's ranked as one of the top ten in the US. But, the gov. has driven the value of the dollar down so far that's it's nearly impossible for private companies to make their own investments. It's easier to start in Europe!
gibb1991 6 months ago
@gibb1991 No, I believe in the major & I truly wish you the best in building new businesses. My point is that we are killing ourselves with all of this taxation. Yes we need infrastructure, but be careful about what poses as infrastructure. In Norfolk VA they recently installed a commuter rail to nowhere that was fraught with cost overruns and millions of "missing" dollars. I watched daily as trains ran empty. I watch a similar commuter train running empty in downtown Jacksonville FL today.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
The answer, I believe, is less government spending. The dollar is worth nothing because the government throws it away on every useless project, runs into debt, and then prints more out of thin air. Well, they have the FEDERAL RESERVE print it, and they pay them INTEREST to borrow it... So, in the big picture, I'm not really against HSR per se, I'm against out of control government spending and the fraud, waste, and abuse inherent in the system.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast That right there is an EXCELLENT statement. As I see it, we need to regulate social programs more heavily, deregulate the passenger rail industry and open it up to free market (the gvmt has it highly restricted, another reason private systems are hard to do in the US), cut down on foreign aid, withdraw from places where we are not needed, and so forth. Rebuild America First!
gibb1991 6 months ago
@gibb1991
Got that right, just another reason why ron paul gets my vote in 2012.
jmjfanss 3 months ago
@getagreatjobfast OK MY FRIEND, so that means NOT ANOTHER CENT of taxpayer money for Interstate Highways......WE MUST BE FAIR.......
sierracuban 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Yes, I agree, there are many rail projects that were not built well at all. However, there are the good ones (Chicago Metra, LA Metrolink, St. Louis Metrolink, Charlotte LINX, etc.) that serve their purpose. I don't know what the hell Norfolk planners were thinking; great idea, poor planning. The rail line is in the wrong place to be effective. But Jacksonville, FL doesn't have commuter rail yet, its still in planning. I think you may have seen a deadhead unit.
gibb1991 6 months ago
@gibb1991 It's a monorail that services downtown and is derided as a waste of taxpayer money by everyone with any sense. It passes by the window of my office every 15 minutes making its loop. If you listen you can hear the money being sucked out of your pocket. Sometimes it has one or two people on it. Usually it's empty. Of course, it creates jobs for the train driver and conductor. And for the ticket collectors in the various booths along the line. And jobs for the maintenance workers.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Ah. Yeah, monorail's aren't really that expensive compared to other systems, but if they're not put in the right place (downtown loops are best or between medical centers like where I live, where it is very successful) it isn't very effective. If a city wants to develop seperated, inner-city transit, subways and streetcars are usually the most effective option.
gibb1991 6 months ago
I'm all for HSR, but please don't use Europe as an example....it simply isn't the same scenario....air travel is cheaper and faster in the US than it is in Europe, thus it is more popular....population density is much different there vs. the USA also.
For those opposed, don't talk about the cost of this as an excuse. Just look at how much you shell out each year in road construction and maintenance? The hypocrisy is defeaning!
jaggatorpm 1 year ago
@jaggatorpm Its not about population density as a whole. Its about centers of population(metro areas and the distances between them. For example, Madrid (metro pop 6.5m) and Valencia (metro pop 1.7m) are 2.17 miles apart which just got a HSR connection in January 2011. Within one month Iberia, Spains national carrier cancelled ALL Flights as did Europe's cheapest budget airline Ryanair because they couldn't compete with HSR. Basically it beat air travel hands down in every way.
evantis121 1 year ago
And now those who support the airlines are also out of work. So, there is a net loss of jobs. How does private enterprise compete with the government whose ability to capitalize projects is endless? Of course, government will always result in less efficiency, fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayers' money. Doesn't sound like a win to me. Sounds like government should get out of the transportation business, let the consumer decide what's best, and let private business supply the demand.
getagreatjobfast 11 months ago
@getagreatjobfast You are making sweeping statements that are frankly wrong. Do you think fraud doesn't happen in private enterprize? Do you think airlines pay of airports? like hell they don't. Do you like driving your car? you wouldn't get very far fast without the interstate highway network buit by wait for it......the government. What you don't seem to accept is that private enterprize happens when state infrastructure is in place, take ur example of airports, its the same with HSR lines.
evantis121 11 months ago
@evantis121 Wrong because you say so? So, now you are the authority? The difference between private business and government is that private businesses don't have the power to put a gun to your head and force you to pay for things you don't want. (Of course, we now have corporatism, but that is a different argument.) So do you think the government should be driving spending decisions, or should the citizens be demanding what government does? I don't hear anyone clamoring for HSR.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast Can't you read? There's plenty of comments on this video from people that are angry at Scotts decison to reject the HSR project. Given your posts I can accurately presume that you follow a certain ideology that disregards other peoples opinions. Have a nice life.
evantis121 6 months ago
GO SENATOR NELSON GO ! ! ! What a MISTAKE I MADE voting for that possible criminal Rick Scott.......The Tea Party NEVER mentions that private enterprise is FULL of scumbags.......GENERAL MOTORS spent millions to kill rail travel starting back in 1922......Where were you Tea Baggers ?????? YOU never mention that.....SCOTT HAS NO RIGHT to be a dictator if Senator Nelson can work out a deal......FLORIDA NEEDS THE JOBS........
sierracuban 1 year ago
@sierracuban The difference is that TRUE private enterprise (the kind that uses its OWN money instead of lobbying Congress and getting taxpayer's money) rises and falls on ITS OWN MERITS AND USES ITS OWN MONEY. Florida needs jobs... So, is stealing more money from working Americans to create an unneeded job on a railway that few people will use going to really help the loss of jobs? Government cannot CREATE jobs. Government TAKES money from people who earn it rightfully and squanders it.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@getagreatjobfast REALLY ??? Tell that to President F.D.R. who used millions of dollars to get us out of the Great Depression.........And I am no admirer of F.D.R. And what about the BILLIONS of taxpayer money used for the Interstate Highways Act of 1956 ???? MONEY FOR TRAINS NO ! ! !
MONEY FOR HIGHWAYS AND TO BUTCHER PEOPLE IN SENSELESS WARS YES ! ! !
sierracuban 6 months ago
@sierracuban
Because it's still big government money and it will get bigger, I'm sorry, but warfare and welfare do not exist
TIME FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF OUR LIVES!
jmjfanss 3 months ago
@getagreatjobfast stop paying taxes then and see what happens. DUMBASS
MrEiriku 2 months ago
they want to build a high speed train to carry ghosts to and fro! no one except people going to disney and people using the airports would use it. then they say the feds would pay for it! there is no way that this would be completed using the money the feds offered and the balance would fall on florida taxpayers. well done governor, it took incredible courage to do the right thing when so many people have been brainwasshed into the ideas of high speed rtail and keynesian stimulus!
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Er, ok Whats your suggestion to add extra capacity to the already creaking Florida transport infrastructure? Common' genius, let's here it.
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 so you want to here(sic) my ideas? why, you've already been brainwashed by those who would make huge profits constructing this train. you've definitely been brainwashed into believing that keynesian stimulus works to create jobs (dept of edu taught you all that garbage about how fdr saved the world) lastly, there's a good possibility that you've never been to orlando or tampa and would therefore never understand why this would just be another govt white elephant!
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Sounds like your just full of hot air, bleating about this and that like a spoilt child yet not coming up with any ideas yourself. You blindly follow an ideology of know nothing, do nothing. Prove us wrong and give us your ideas of how extra capacity can be added to the transport infrastructure that doesn't involve public capital.
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 interstate 595 in south florida. costing the taxpayer a pittance compared to this ridiculous boodoggle. like i said though, they were quite thorough in your brainwashing. i know this because i was once on your side of the argument. i then tried something revolutionary called 'thinking for myself'. you should try it sometime
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Hmm, attempting to compare 12 miles of extra freeway lanes versus 84 miles of High Speed rail....its hardly a good comparison. I notice you haven't even offered any substantiated costs either. You'll need to do better than that.
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 now why would i waste my time doing that. you are so far gone there isn't a point. this is not to say that i'm opposed to hsr because i'm not. what i'm opposed to is govt funding of the project. i don't see how you can morally take money out of poor peoples pockets in other parts of florida and the country, to pay for people to go from tampa to orlando on a train which is a little faster than the ones which already exist that no one uses.
58robbo 1 year ago
@58robbo Thank you, thank you, thank you. Glad to see there is someone else out there who gets it. Why don't we all just let the market decide instead of robbing people to pay some state senator's out of work contractor uncle?
getagreatjobfast 11 months ago
@getagreatjobfast the state senators uncle is pretty pissed. i'll tell you who else is peeved, disney and the cruise liners. if you've ever been to orlando and tampa you will know that this line was only meant as a shuttle to take cruise travellers to disney, PERIOD. perhaps some of the lawmakers were promised high level jobs at disney too.
58robbo 11 months ago
@58robbo I-595 improvements cost the Florida taxpayers $1.795 billion and an additional $28 million for sound barriers. Hardly a "pittance."
gibb1991 7 months ago
@gibb1991 you forget the people that people actually use I-595, unlike the ghost train they were planning on building. Also, motorists already pay their user fees, it's called the gas tax. I do however have to concede that you've a point. I think the feds and states should get out of the road building\maintaining business. interstates would then be totally private and each county, town,city could fund their own internal roads however they'd like. the gas tax would have to go though
58robbo 7 months ago
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gibb1991 7 months ago
@58robbo Although I do agree that more roads should at least be constructed with private investments, or public-private partnerships, an entire national network of roadways wouldn't be able to financially sustain itself. Our current highway network requires $41 billion in subsidies each year (almost enough to build the entire California HSR System from scratch).
gibb1991 7 months ago
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@58robbo People use I-595 because they have no other options. I think the high-speed train would have been wildly successful with direct access to Disney World. Florida has the largest tourist market in the world, and in America, the bullet train itself may have become an attraction. So calling it a "ghost train" before it was even built is a statement resulting from misinformation.
gibb1991 7 months ago
@58robbo Thank you for your comments. You are obviously someone who is informed and has a grasp of history and economics.
getagreatjobfast 6 months ago
@58robbo public private partnerships are the root of many problems. if anyone wants to make money developing a road, they must finance it themselves. i personally don't agree with any subsidies. many would argue that a lot of roads wouldn;t exist then, my response would be that if a road cannot pay for itself, it shouldn;t be there. if the govt didn;t subsidize or pay for roads,bridges, rail, airports, bicycle paths etc the most efficient mix would arise in the marketplace
58robbo 7 months ago
It wasn't Scott Faults it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which Tea party saying no to HSR so after Rick listen to Sharon and Karen then thats when he decided to kill the high speed rail. Rick pay no attention to these girls now wake up, Stand up, And Get some Balls.
sideslide23 1 year ago
@sideslide23 THANK YOU SIDESLIDE......WE WILL WIN THIS......Too bad Miami is so far from Tallahassee or you would have me there with a BIG sign......However, I have called Senator Nelson's office in Washington D.C. and I left him an encouraging message.....I have also sent e-mails to Governor Scott and to our good friend Florida Senator Dockery........I will keep up the e-mails and calls.......
WE MUST GET OUT IN FORCE FOR FLORIDA........WE NEED THE JOBS.........Sierra Cuban, Miami, FL
sierracuban 1 year ago
GENERAL MOTORS, OIL COMPANIES AND TIRE COMPANIES starting back in the 1920's created a company called NATIONAL CITY LINES for the sole purpose of buying up rail lines and junking them.......This IS NOT taught to our innocent children in school.....An antitrust lawsuit was filed during the Truman years, but by then it was too late...The year was 1922 when this conspiracy started, and the name of the man was Alfred P. Sloan Jr. of GM......Standard Oil and Firestone were in on it also.....FACT ! !
sierracuban 1 year ago
HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ???? NO WAY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITORS........Don' t you know that to be a REAL American you must think like General Motors and Ford ??? You commies ! ! Hands off my Chevy Truck you hippies ! ! OK.....Now let 's get serious : Did anyone out there know that in the 1920's General Motors and the tire companies created a company called ironically National City Lines to quietly buy up the rail trolley lines ??
They don ' t teach that in school....
sierracuban 1 year ago
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HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ?? WHY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN SCUMBAGS ! ! ! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT TO BE A REAL AMERICAN YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE GENERAL MOTORS AND FORD ??? OTHERWISE YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO YOUR COUNTRY.....HANDS OFF MY CHEVY PICK UP YOU COMMIES .....NOW, LET'S GET SERIOUS : FACT : IN THE 1940's GENERAL MOTORS AND THE TIRE COMPANIES CREATED A COMPANY CALLED IRONICALLY " NATIONAL RAIL LINES " WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TAKING APART OUR PUBLIC TROLLEYS.....DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
sierracuban 1 year ago
HIGH SPEED RAIL HERE IN THE U.S.A. ?? WHY YOU ANTI-AMERICAN SCUMBAGS ! ! ! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT TO BE A REAL AMERICAN YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE GENERAL MOTORS AND FORD ??? OTHERWISE YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO YOUR COUNTRY.....HANDS OFF MY CHEVY PICK UP YOU COMMIES .....NOW, LET'S GET SERIOUS : FACT : IN THE 1940's GENERAL MOTORS AND THE TIRE COMPANIES CREATED A COMPANY CALLED IRONICALLY " NATIONAL RAIL LINES " WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TAKING APART OUR PUBLIC TROLLEYS.....DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
sierracuban 1 year ago
WE CAN TURN THIS AROUND.......Senator Nelson will get together with private enterprise to take the slack.......GO BILL GO !
This is a BAD decision......GET OUT AND SHOW SUPPORT FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL........IT WILL BRING THOUSANDS OF JOBS.....
sierracuban 1 year ago
@sierracuban yes we can turn this around, you only got till Feb 25 which is this Friday because thats when the bill will go to other states like California, Nevada, New York, and other states that wants HSR it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which did the Tea party to Rick Scott to stop the High speed rail project, Thanks to these two Witches.
sideslide23 1 year ago
JUST YOU WAIT............When gasoline reaches five to seven dollars per gallon, the enemies of mass transportation will hide under their beds.....People are in denial about the future of fossil fuels.....SCOTT did not even give private enterprise the chance to speak to him.....He just killed it......RICK CARES NOT about the unemployed Floridians.....It was a mistake to elect a millionaire.....
WE WILL REMEMBER THIS RICK.....
sierracuban 1 year ago
I wonder who's on the Rick Scott special interests list......BAD DECISION RICK.....
YOU TRIED TO KILL THIS TRAIN WITHOUT CAREFUL STUDY.....I am ashamed to have voted for you........
sierracuban 1 year ago
I wonder who's on the Rick Scott special interests list......BAD DECISION RICK.....
sierracuban 1 year ago
@sierracuban it was Sharon Calvert and Karen Jaroch which was behind this, they started the Tea party saying no to HSR to Rick so that what made Rick Decision to stop HSR project before any Shovel touches the foudation.
sideslide23 1 year ago
the acceptance of the voters ,previous governor ,and the whole of the legislature should be upheld!!The citizens of florida have voted in two referendums for high speed rail..over 63 percent of voters want this and voted for it..our governor is subverting the will of florida voters and has lost 24,000 shovel ready jobs just on the surface.This train would be a huge attraction for tourists..our main industry..governor rick scott is a short sighted and subverting the will of voters.
STEEEVVYZ 1 year ago
Its time to RECALL RICK. A) if he's so concerned with the federal government, he should have run for congress and not state governor and B) any governor who rejects programs to create jobs in our current situation has no business being our governor. RECALL RICK.
ocerg1111 1 year ago
Much as I am a fan of high speed rail and have travelled in them while in Europe and East Asia, I'd like to question the motivations behind the US latest push for high speed rail. Is it 1) because Europe/Jpn and now even China have them, so "we must also have" mentality in order not to lose out, esp to China? OR 2) high speed rail does create many more n immed jobs than other tpt devpts? OR 3) is there a hidden agenda by Amtrak/state governors akin to China's railway recent corruption case?
ymhktravel 1 year ago
@ymhktravel It could look that way but there are two main factors why investment is planned for HSR in the US
1. Competition - our largest global competitors are investing heavily in HSR because it gives them the ability to move people far more effectively and efficiently that either highways or by air.
2. Energy security - the EU, China and Japan like America imports vast quantities of oil. They are reliant on the good will of others to keep their economies going.
evantis121 1 year ago
@sideslide23 Porsche, Lamborghini, I am too poor and have been out of work too long for these names to even enter into my thoughts. Nice try though. I am however a master electrician which nets me many auto neglects when applying for jobs due to "Over qualification". Try explaining that to your hungry children. This railway was a major source of jobs for at least five years for many people.
knightmare2210 1 year ago
I am a believer that as we progress with time and technology, if you build, people will eventually take to it. It's like before there were subways, people were very used to travelling ard in what we now call "vintage cars". When subways and slow trains came ard, we took to them, although not immediately so. But once we get used to the idea of travelling in it, it becomes another viable travelling option. Perhaps could just build 1 hispeed rail first on the most viable line to test.
ymhktravel 1 year ago
@ymhktravel If high speed rail is profitable the private sector will build it.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry Yeah, just like they built the interstate system or our airports. That argument is pathetic. You must try harder to justify being so backward.
evantis121 1 year ago
@quizerry If roads and highways are proitable why doesn't the private sector build them? Because they are NOT profitable. But YOU do subsidize BIG OIL's monopoly with your tax dollars because you like to be a fat slobb who doesn't walk the least bit but drives around in their personal car even around the corner burning fuel non-stop. Government designs life situations so that you will DEMAND what they want. When you reject alternatives to roads you are only tightening the noose on ur throat.
DaaYay 1 year ago
@DaaYay There are private highways in many States. Google Indiana private roads Also we need to privatize our airports Canada, UK ,Rome all have private airports that are much nicer then ours and yes they make profits.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry Okay, so here's the question. Did these private companies build the infrastructure and use their own money to build them? Or did the Government build them and then they (private companies) took control later? I don't know of any private companies that are anxious to get into the road building and tolling business.
DaaYay 1 year ago
@DaaYay Ya, me too. I do not know of any private co. in the world is the provider of public infrastructure such as roads and bridges. It's usually done by the govt. If you wait for profit-oriented private companies to provide public goods, it will never come about because the returns will take a long long time to happen. And private co. will not want to wait that long. At best it's like a 80% govt, 20% pvt investment.
ymhktravel 1 year ago
@quizerry Theses airports you refer to were build entirely with public money and then sold on long franchises to recoup some of their development costs. The truth of the matter is that major infrastructure needs government support whether it be highways, airports or HSR lines.
evantis121 1 year ago
@quizerry The American air system does not turn a profit. Our air system alone required $30 billion in subsidies this past year, the highways required $41 billion (compare to our passenger rail networks $1.2 billion, and profits made by the Acela Express service).
gibb1991 7 months ago
Scott is a self hatting sissy!!!!
Floridians should be ashamed electing such a fool!!!!
chronicman06 1 year ago
@chronicman06 we only got 8 days to convence Scott to Change his mind, because other alternative would be even more costly to tax payers because they would have to widen up the highway or build double decker highways, and Drivers will have to pay congestion pricing, so you only got 8 days to get Scott to change his mind or Florida is Screwed.
sideslide23 1 year ago
@sideslide23 FYI High speed rail cost $31 to $67 million per mile. Interstate highway cost $2 million per lane mile.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry instead of High speed rail, how about regular tracks for Diesel commuter trains, like they did for MetroLink in LA Caltrain in Penisula?
sideslide23 1 year ago
@quizerry This is rubbish and you know it.
evantis121 1 year ago
State highway and.sea port improvements give construction crews temp jobs. What an idiot
Enellz 1 year ago
well if you guy's continuos vote for kind of governors like that we not go ing to have a job for the rest of our life's,it will be florida in the future homeless.
FL8C008 1 year ago
Too much of a risk? Not enough of a return? This guy has obviously doesn't pay attention to the real world. Florida has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. This would not only have opened up thousands of jobs that we desperately need, but would have in the long term would have saved on the amount spent on maintaining highways as there would be more people taking the train than driving on the road. I have never been more proud of not voting for someone in my life!
knightmare2210 1 year ago
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sideslide23 1 year ago
@quizzery,lots of people in Illinois work at O'Hare,thousands,even.....
cowallad 1 year ago
"Our state and country cannot continue spending borrowed money on every new idea that comes along" - Marco Rubio
New idea? He thinks that HSR is a NEW idea? It's been around for over half a century! And HSR has been upgraded, refined, matured, and perfected over and over for those 50 years.
People ride it. Businesses are built on it. Revenue is generated from it. If it were such a bad idea, Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens, etc. would have left the business long ago, back when it WAS a new idea!
lenojames 1 year ago 4
Ultimately, the most sensible place to build HSR in USA is California and the Northeast.
merakhagen 1 year ago
@evantis121. I was on the Maglev when it hit 431 kmh = 268 mph not 168 mph (even took a picture - wikipedia 'Shanghai Maglev Train'). Its a waste of money until gas is $6-8/gallon. The Maglev was $40 USD each way - if that were the price of the high speed rail Tampa to Orlando, no one would ride. Its cheaper to drive. Also, the international standard currently is 150 mph to be considered HIGH SPEED RAIL. We're not even close.
bwheeler83 1 year ago
@bwheeler83 Whats your point?
evantis121 1 year ago
I thought that Wisconsin turning away just under $1 billion was a foolish decision. Now, Florida has turned away $2.5 billion? This is like saying no to a free Lexus because taxpayers will be "stuck with the gasoline bill".
Anyway, I'm torn. As an HSR advocate, I wish Florida could have built their system, just to have the first HSR up and running somewhere in the USA. But as a Californian, I see more money coming our way to get our train built here.
lenojames 1 year ago 2
Having lived in Bangkok for over six years and riding the BTS and MRT daily (Siemens) I was really excited about Florida and other states getting High Speed Rail projects going. Maybe Chicago and Illinois can get the project which makes it easier on everyone. America needs world-class public transportation systems, especially Chicago. The "L" is awful.The good people of Florida deserve better.
mpags85 1 year ago
Scott will really feel the heat when CA starts advertising for workers for its high speed rail line in 2012.
evantis121 1 year ago
I rode the Maglev in China - which gets you from Shanghai airport to downtown Shanghai in less than 12 minutes (270 mph) - roughly 50 miles away. The high speed rail in Florida was only going to go 90 mph. In order to be considered high-speed rail in Europe its 150 mph. Amtrak already goes 60 mph . . . this project didn't make any sense from the get go!
bwheeler83 1 year ago
@bwheeler83 Correction, it tops out at 168MPH which is High Speed. High speed rail is NOT based on averaged speeds as average speeds are dependent on distance between stops. Its actually based on the top speed of the train and the speed capability of the rail line itself.
evantis121 1 year ago
Florida deserve what they got.
After all, they elected this turd. Good luck, you're stuck with him for the next 4-years. Ha! Ha! Ha!
Thank you God, Florida's loss is California's gain.
b2ferrara 1 year ago 2
In short, high-speed rail is more than five times more expensive than any of the alternatives. Since most high-speed rail stations will be in downtowns, the main users will be downtown workers such as lawyers, bankers, and government officials. Yet less than 8% of American jobs are in central city downtowns, meaning all Americans will subsidize trains used by only a small urban elite.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry Er, no, rail stations are located in city center locations because it makes use of existing road and public infrastructure which is traditionally radiates out of the city center. I wonder how many American's have jobs in airports.
evantis121 1 year ago
The Republicans across this country are literally set on forcing America to commit suicide! Not only is high speed rail a job creator but once it is built it will boost the economies everywhere it stops! The Interstate System across the country is jammed up everywhere especially during rush hour & this would help with that as well. The ONLY reason many Republicans object is bc Obama supports it! Just like Health Care Mandate, Cap-n-Trade & other policies! Republicans are wrong for America!!
Viracocha711 1 year ago
@Viracocha711 While high speed rail sounds romantic, high-speed rail proposals are high cost, high-risk megaprojects that promise little or no congestion relief, energy savings, or other environmental benefits. Taxpayers and politicians should be wary of any transportation projects that cannot be paid for out of user fees. Taxpayers would be on the hook forever. We had a huge rail system in the 30s and 40s it failed because people prefer to drive.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry there is nothing "romantic" about high speed rail. America's competitors are building high speed rail networks because its fuel efficient, boosts productivity, offers alternatives to squeezing into tiny aircraft seats or getting stuck in 10 mile traffic jams and give's their economies increased competitiveness.
evantis121 1 year ago
@quizerry It is more than "romantic" especially from Orlando to Tampa!! High speed rail would allow tourist to see more than they otherwise would & places like Atlanta could be just an hour or so away from Savannah To say folks would use high speed rail is almost like saying folks would not fly if the prices were cheaper...Of course people will use it & everywhere they are built the economies will benefit! Plus, it would provide many much needed jobs!
Viracocha711 1 year ago
@quizerry
LOL
Old Rail failed because cars advanced well beyond "The old Time Rail" LOL
These high speed car cars travel at 250mph VS less then 60mph for an old time rail. Have you ever drove from Orlando to Tampa? You have any idea how much faster this system would be. Since I do have my own business I travel a lot...I know
btw, Old rail never failed it spurred growth across the entire US... then become obsolete do to car advancements. Now we have rail advancements again... China is laughing
buddry007 1 year ago
@buddry007 The Florida Department of Transportation predicts 96 percent of the people riding its proposed Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed train would otherwise drive; only 4 percent will be new travelers. With 50 million people visiting Central Florida each year, high-speed rail will increase business by less than .25 percent. Florida has a $3-billion shortfall. To pay for the trains, the state must either raise taxes or cut budgets for education, social services and other programs.
quizerry 1 year ago
@buddry007 The cost to build high speed rail is $31 to $67 million per mile. User fees would have to be enormous to cover cost. High-speed rail should be killed before it diverts tens of billions of transportation dollars into a black hole, producing negligible benefits.
quizerry 1 year ago
So much of this debate is guided by a provincial notion in America that the only way to travel is by car or air. Despite the fact that other countries are succeeding with high-speed rail and breaking the habit of importing oil from the Middle East, America watches the future pass us by as we nurture old prejudices and fears. What's really happening here is that Rush Limbaugh fans are doing whatever they can to sabotage every important step forward of Obama in order to engineer his failure.
johnwhester 1 year ago
@johnwhester Interstates paid for themselves out of gas taxes, and most Americans use them almost every day. Moderate or high-speed rail would require everyone to subsidize trains that would serve only a small elite. High-speed rail moves virtually no freight and carries the average resident of Japan less than 400 miles per year, and the average resident of France less than 300 miles per year. It is likely that a few people use them a lot, but most rarely or not at all.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry As you acknowledge, interstates are subsidized by a gas tax. They are certainly no free lunch. We pay high external costs to both the environment and to national security in order to keep chugging along on the highways. I'm not sure where you got your "five times more expensive" data, but I don't think that is true. (See: Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation at wikipedia)
johnwhester 1 year ago
@johnwhester Where highway subsidies average less than a penny per passenger mile, and subsidies to flying are even lower, Amtrak costs taxpayers 22cents per passenger mile and urban transit costs 61 cents per passenger mile. Go to the Washington federal transit national data base. Also The Dept of Energy says that boosting Amtrak trains to higher speeds will make them less energy-efficient and more polluting than driving. Cars are become more energy efficient while trains are not.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry gas tax only covers approximately HALF the cost of interstate upkeep. HSR is not meant to move any freight, its for passenger travel exclusively. Thats why is the safes form of mass transport EVER. There hasn't been one fatality on Japan's HSR network in over 50 years!!!!
I wonder how many Floridians were killed on the states highways this week??
evantis121 1 year ago
@johnwhester High-speed rail has done little to change European travel habits. In 1980, intercity rail accounted for 8.2 percent of passenger travel in the 15 countries in the European Union at the time. By 2000, the share had declined to 6.3 percent, and it has fallen further since then. While automobiles have modestly gained market share in the real challenge to high-speed rail has come from low cost airlines. In Japan 1965 and 2005, per capita driving increased by more than 900%.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry Lies, lies and more lies. High speed rail is booming in Europe. Its giving real choice to travelers. instead of painful air journeys of tiresome car journeys Europeans have fast comfortable alternative getting between their cities. Ryanair, Europe's cheapest airline followed Spain's national carrier Iberia this week by pulling out of their Madrid to Valencia route ONE MONTH after high speed rail commenced!!
I've used UK,French and Italian high speed networks and they are superb.
evantis121 1 year ago 8
@evantis121 High-speed rail is an obsolete technology that is good for neither the environment nor personal mobility. High-speed rail is slower than flying, less convenient than driving, and at least five times more expensive. It is only feasible with heavy taxpayer subsidies. Of all the rail systems in Europe and Asia only two make money the rest are heavily subsidizes by tax payers. American drives for 85 percent of their travel the average European 79 percent not much difference.
quizerry 1 year ago
@evantis121 High-speed rail has done little to change European travel habits. In 1980, intercity rail accounted for 8.2 percent of passenger travel in the 15 countries in European Union By 2000, the share in those countries had declined to 6.3 percent, and it has fallen further since then. Meanwhile, autos have gained market share in recent decades. But the real challenge to high-speed rail has come from low-cost airlines. The trains cost much more then air travel.
quizerry 1 year ago
@evantis121 Yes it is great for tourist but In the European Union as a whole, the average resident travels only about 100 miles per year by rail. The rail's declining importance in Europe has come about despite onerous taxes on driving, taxes is used to subsidize rail. Because of limited ridership on high-speed rail, it has done little to relieve highway congestion. "Not a single high-speed track built to date has had any perceptible impact on the road traffic carried by parallel motorways.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry where are you getting these figures from?? can you divulge your sources or are you just pulling figures out of your head?
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 The U.S. Federal Transit Administration. Also economic studies ta Cato and Heritage.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry ha ha the Cato and Heritige institutes, hardly a valid source considering they receive funding from various vested interests including oil companies.
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 I've used many of their rail systems they are great for tourist but the fact is they are heavily subsidized by taxes and they aren't cheap fares. People there even with high gas prices prefer to drive. That is exactly what happened here 50 years ago and why our private railroads shut (down except for the government backed Amtrak who hasn't made a profit in 50 years.)
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry Ha ha, you are talking through your butt if you think HSR is only used by tourists.
evantis121 1 year ago
@quizerry Amtrak hasn't even been around for 50 years! And in fact, all true high-speed rail lines except China's and Spain's turn a profit, and most have private or public-private operators. Even the USA's own high speed service, the "Acela Express," brought in enough revanue to cover all costs of the NEC (even the losses of the NE Regional) and still turned a profit. Your statement that says most Europeans still prefer to drive is really ridiculous. #1 mode of transit in Europe is rail.
gibb1991 7 months ago
@evantis121 I AGREE WITH YOU EVANTIS.......Scott is being a knucklehead.......HIGH SPEED RAIL will work......Let me ask the Tea Party a question : Where the hell were you in 1922 when a man by the name of
ALFRED P. SLOAN JR of GENERAL MOTORS created a company by the name of National City lines with the SOLE purpose of buying up rail companies and tearing them up ??? Where were you Tea Partiers ?? You say that you are for the people YOU HYPOCRITES.......WE NEED JOBS NOW ! ! !
sierracuban 1 year ago
@evantis121 And China is also constructing them all over the country. And they are beating America in green energy. But I hope criminal Scott and the other punk get to screw everybody, all the idiots who voted them in.
classicallady 1 year ago
@evantis121 heres what more painfull than air travelers and Driving is riding Greyhound bus, because Greyhound bus are very unconfortable there very stinky they smell like jail house.
sideslide23 1 year ago
@evantis121
I agree with you.
Greetings from Germany!
MrCC444 9 months ago
Rick Scott is now in a several thousand job deficit. What a fucking tool. NICE GOING YOU FUCKING REPUBLIFUCKS.
inademv 1 year ago
24,000 jobs!!!!
STEEEVVYZ 1 year ago
This would have been a pretty easy project to build. They've got the right of way in the middle of the freeway. They had the federal funding. They had private companies ready to assume responsibility for cost overruns and ongoing subsidies (maybe because they felt those problems wouldn't happen).
Oh well.
Spokker 1 year ago
Dear Governor Scott,
Thank you so very much! We applaude your bold decision to turn away billions of dollars in federal money so it can be better spent on other, more deserving projects around the country. With your choice, you have shown your dedication and resolve in guiding government toward a more desirable course. We will long remember your unwavering dedication to your fiscal convictions, and the tremendous aid you have done in serving our state.
Signed,
The People of California
lenojames 1 year ago 2
If the private sector was eager and ready to build it, why does the government need to spend $5 billion in the program? Congratulations to Governor Scott for intelligent, long-range thinking and brave decision-making. High speed rail is a boondoggle and a giant waste of money every time it's been tried.
bigmonkey012 1 year ago
@bigmonkey012 You're another brain-dead idiot. Keep drinking that deluded snake oil, Cretin.
ldkspardadeuce 1 year ago
@bigmonkey012 if highways were a revenue generator or for that matter airports then why doesn't private companies build those?? If you really cared about overspending you should support HSR as it reduces oil imports which helps re balance the trade deficit.
evantis121 1 year ago
@evantis121 Private companies do build them but were not allowed to own them. Many States now are turning over roads to private companies to run.
quizerry 1 year ago
@quizerry These roads were built with public money as I'm sure you'd concede. Many European HSR networks are run by private companies.
evantis121 1 year ago