I find it interesting that when the Japanese used waterboarding on U.S. soldiers during WWII it was deemed unlawful and torture. Yet when we waterboard our C.I.A. and Cheney claim it's not. They even say it's useful and helped catch Osama Bin Laden without a shred of actual evidence.
One day, kameron found a note in her yard saying that bloody mary is going to come in her home and kill her at night in 3days. kameron threw the note away and three days later her parents found her dead, laying on the bathroom floor with blood everywhere.
someone didn't forward the message to the three videos and she went to te hospital and got pneumonia and died.
For the last time. I'm not going to prove anything. You know how I feel, we all want to see the info. Obama formerly wanted to release and I say please do Obama. Cheney is asking Obama to release it. Does anyone get that. We have people on one hand claiming it doesn't work and has not evidence, and you want me to prove it does. Last I heard we are all waiting on info. from Obama. Why no info? why is he holding out now? All you guys want to see Cheney go down... and you have nothing!
How am I supposed to prove anything.... I'm just giving my well formed opinion... call me stupid... call me an idiot, but you know no more than I do, everyone already has all the information that they want to know.... I gave you information on unbias links, that's all I can do... I'm just giving you my well thought out formed opinion... because as an American, I CAN DO THAT.
I'm not a Bush lover, nor any Harvard politician lover... including Obama. These people are not above me, nor is anyone playing along with them. But one thing the Bush Admin. did right was protect us, government is supposed to be there to protect us, the CIA is supposed to protect us. There is a lot our government shouldn't be doing, but protecting us is the #1 job.
The biggest attack on US soil happened on Bushes fucking watch, what the fuck are you talking about he protected us?!
The Bush admin ignored intel briefing after intel briefing that said "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" months before 9/11, and then they attacked us.
ok, see, i disagree on this point. the #1 goal of a democratic government is to uphold the law and it's the law's responsibility to define what must be protected and how. what you're asking for is a totalitarian system where a single enitty decides it will protect the people however it sees fit. they had a system like this before: it was called feudalism.
one branch of the government should not act unilaterally regardless of its goal.
this isn't about right vs left. it's about rational gov.
Tell me what he is doing right..... he can't get anything done... his own liberal dominating congress turned against him over 90% voted against closing gitmo, because he hasn't released information. They are afraid to look like idiots because they are up for re-election. What does that tell you... if it doesn't tell you anything I can't.... Obama can do no wrong.... Doesn't take an idiot to love one.
Here is one for everyone! Does LAW tell you what's right and wrong? ANYONE can pass a LAW! LAW does not rule my life! I try and obey the LAW, but if someone threatens my family or hurts them, I'm protecting them. We are all like family here in the US... we protect it. This is our home. Others want to destroy it. And all you are stuck on is LAW. Law is not moral... some mores make laws... but mostly humans make law....STAND UP FOR SOMETHING.... you are just drowns if you are ruled by law.
If only LAWS rule your life..." Law is King"... you are not free. Gooood God... help us all if Obama, or any other president for that matter, is our king.
Perhaps that's why the Republican party has been bitch slapped from coast to coast. The fact that you have to work so hard spamming the board with propaganda while failing to convince anyone of anything kinda makes you look like a pathetic tool with way too much time on your hands. Sorry bullshitter, but we're not buying it. Buh bye now!
Cheney only cares that we know his twisted version of the truth. Just as you sit there admonishing "liberals" for following Pelosi, you're swinging from Cheney's nuts by reciting every piece of bullshit that comes out of his goddamn lying mouth like a good little cocksucker. You wingnuts are nothing if not clueless fucking hypocrites. LOL
Moving on now, I wonder what happened to all those "Sleeper Cells" that Cheney and Co claimed had infiltrated the entire US. I don't recall any of them being broken up while they were so busy "keeping us safe" and bankrupting the shit out of the country. Oh wait, maybe that was more BULLSHIT that belongs in the Bush/Cheney hall of shame along with those missing WMD's. Keep talking, "Dick" because the more you talk, the more your lies and criminal activities will come back to haunt your ass.
How nice of cheney to make speeches now that he's out of office. He was a big prick before and after 9/11. He used 9/11 to line the pockets of his friends in the defense industry. He is a thief, a liar, and a war criminal. Why is KSM still alive?
Just to let you know Haliburtan was the only contractor big enough, and had the capacity and the ability to do the job. They where the only company with all the available resources needed for the job. It would have been more of a crime to enrich a company with less of the capabilities that Haliburtan had. Haliburtan was more ready then all the other bidders, they won the contract fair and square.
Obama is lining the pockets of the Democratic party and all it's counterparts. Atleast Haliburtan actually had to do something to get the money.... ie... CONTRACT. Obama is giving it away for nothing.
There were several, one that I remember was LAX, and just recently more where arrested... homegrown Alquida planned to attack a ceniga<---- spelling? in New York. Homegrown terrorist... American Alquida sympathizers.
Perhaps you are not aware that these deals were CLOSED way before they decide to outpost sadda....He was a dictator and an obnoxious person but you have to bear in mind that Bush father, very accurately and wisely did not go to overthrow him for he knew nothing good would come out of there for they have 3 different ethnic groups who in fact are tribals and profess a gigantic different faith and policies within islam. Try some research and check for yourself.
We've been attacked so many times over the years that since 9/11 the attacks pail in comparison to that day and before.
I'll make one more point. The party leaders of the left in this country felt their power eroding after 9/11. The only way they were going to get their power back was to attack Bush and convince as many people in this country of their made up lies. The kool aid drinkers fell for it. Now Obama doesn't want a truth commission.
Well I assume if the truth came out he would have egg on his face.... so everyone's just going to have to trust him on this... besides it's so much fun to make up lies, and keep people guessing. He built his presidency on "the failure of the last 8 years" it would ruin him if people had some respect for Bush keeping them safe. That wouldn't be as much fun.
mccainisthrough, I rarely comment to folks like you. Guy's like you are an embarrassment to the men and women that have protected our country since it was formed by our forefathers.
You comment that former Mr. Cheney should be water boarded illustrates that this act that you on the left rail against is as bogus as President Obama's claim that he doesn't want to look back with a truth commission. He, like you just wants to criticize which show's the shallowness of today's democrat party.
Dude, its not only democrats. Centrist Independents are against the prior administration as well. Not only did Bush/Cheney take away a ton of personal freedoms from us, they caused the world to like us and have raised more terrorists than have found. Not to mention all the TERRORIST attacks against our troops in Iraq, simply because they wanted to oust Saddam. America hasn't been attacked by terrorists on their watch, but Americans have... A lot of Americans.
It's just lies they have to tell themselves. They have beat us inside the US... They have made people doubt their own values and doubt this countries goodness, people are rolling over for them... Obama is one of them.
Look...if there is anyone hear shallor is you...You are purposedly trying to extend bushco lies.... The men and women who have died in Iraq and the other 35000 injured for life - some came back with no limbs at all - have endured all that horror because bush LIED to the country and decided to INVADE, another sovereign country with the sheer goal of drawing contracts and deals to his "pals" and none other tehn HALLIBURTON.
I don't beleive a single word you just said. the Iraq war is a disaster and was not the right thing to do, but to assert that Bush lied to make that case is to reject facts and engage fantasy, and I prefer the truth however unpleasant over the fantasy.
Well dear whether you believe it or not will not change facts and reality. Do yourself a favor and check VanityFair Archives...You can also go to Europeans newspapers - I don't know how many languages you speak but the articles are there for anyone who bothers to look it up. America has no menory whatsoever and the media here is not worried to bring back "old" news and march them up...Neither are politicians.You being a Canadian should know this...
Being a Canuck, I know news outlets here are less than capable. That is why I disagree that Bush lied. his case was weak, and I wouldn't have gone with it, but that doesn't make him a liar. If anything my own experience here have lead me to believe that politicians are almost all tricksters and term limits should be set for anyone in power. Left and right are false paradigms, and most anti war folks I have met are hypocrits and dishonest.
What war are you reffering to on your last sentence???You mean the INVASION AND TAKE OVER of Iraq??? I am progressive/centrist...but if you want to hang to your denial...be my guest.
simply people who posit themselves as being anti war. one could be a pacifist, and legitimately oppose all wars. we have American soliders who fled to Canada to not have to go (back for some) to Afghanistan or Iraq, yet some of these same high profile people have capmpaigned for action in Darfur. One may argue one a good war and one bad, but one cannot be a pacifist only when it suits oneself....
I am not centrist, progressive, conservative, Libertarian or any such label. not any more. I have contempt for much of north america, but not hatred.
If anything I am a futurist. Someone concerned about the social, political, environmental and intellectual heritage we pass on to future generations. I value objective truth over subjective truth. I trust no government to do as I wish, so I support no actions that grow governments.
Future does not exist without the experiences of the past and the present..Intellectual heritage can only survie through educating and granting all population with outstanding education...not an elitist one but rather a broader position where all can have access to it...Without foramting and educating a nation it's hope for intellectual survice is non existant....I don't have a comptent to North America ge...
I see no reason why intellectual heritage is exclusive to equal eduacation. We don't have equal education anywhere in the world yet intellectual heritages exist. people are not all equal, some are more adept a learning, some prefer simple lives. I prefer whatever direction provides options for all to engage how they see fit. It is up to the individual to strive for success in order to gain it.
We should waterboard cheney until he admits he's an asshole and a liar. This guy should be tried and hung. He's already admitted breaking the National Laws, International Laws, Uniform Code of Military Justice, Geneva Accords, and all other formal and informal civilian and military doctrine on torture.
Let Harry Whittington shoot cheney in the face with a shotgun.
I think he makes a lot of sense if you just listen to what he's saying... I think a lot of people hate Cheney without even listening to anything he actually says.
That's silly. I listened. I've BEEN listening to him for the better part of a decade.
What he's saying is, essentially, that the New York Times is evil, and that torture isn't wrong when HE decides that it isn't--and besides, it's not even torture, it's "enhanced interrogation." That kind of mendacity is what Sen. Moynihan had in mind when he coined the phrase, "Defining deviancy down."
Cheney is reverse engineering a rationale for lawlessness. I despise him BECAUSE of what he says
Wouldn't it be interesting if we were attacked again but on a larger scare in say teh next couple years? Right when we are struggling through this recession.
clueless on who the real enemy is? it'd be the the guy who orchestrated 9/11 killing thousands of our citizens unprovoked. that's who you're defending.
libs, for god's sake stop letting your hatred for republicans make you sound like terrorists yourselves
Unfortunately, common sense is out the doors these days and so are values. They can't argue without a copy of the New York Times. They think smart is always something no one has done, when really it has and didn't work. Obama's like an infomercial, they make the new sound great by making the old seem boring and frustrating, but when you get it, you only use it once and wished you'd never spend $19.95, while it sells for $60 in Europe.
So if that's the case we should fly planes, into terrror training camps or just fly planes into a building holding people that look like terrorist........ great logic you have.
Our country needs a new independent investigation into 9/11 and the criminals who planned and carried out this treasonous act need to be brought to justice sooner rather than later.
Basically "There's nothing wrong with what we did at all but you know it's ok for us to have violated American and international law because we only did it to really bad people"
I'm speechless... throw in any number of experts saying that these techniques have been counter productive and your arguments go to shit Mr Cheney... what are you left with? A flimsy excuse that you were scared shitless after the WTC? That's understandable but it's not a defense.
there were no laws broken. we poured water on a man who was responsible for killing thousands of citizens. we made people stand up for several hours at a time, oh no! i hope you're never responsible for protecting another soul considering your lack of judgement and common sense.
they send us videos of them decapitating people with rusty blades and fly planes into buildings because they hate us, not because we poured water on someones face.
torture is illegal under US law - and if you don't think that waterboarding, which is a lot more than "pouring water on a man", isn't torture when virtually every single organization with some authority on the subject has said it is I'd have to ask you what your basis for that is. i mean, might as well say that the rack is just gently tugging on someone's arms and legs.
regardless it doesn't matter what he did, what his crimes were, it is still against bith US and international law.
Well it's a bit different then a crime in the US when you have an organization aiming to kill as many Americans as possible. Where their motive is to destoy us completely. War and US law is two different things! I prefer we not read Miranda Rights to terrorists. What human rights does one have that has no respect for human rights to began with? Internationally.... everyone is glad we have them and not them.... International law is not the issue here.
You should know that law is made by humans, some laws are fair, some laws make no sense at all, law is made to keep you and me in order, law does not determine morals, and determine true values, it is values and morals that make certain laws. If you speed it is against the law. does speeding make you a bad person? you don't care about others on the road, yes it says something about your morals... you're speeding because you're trying to get to the hospital... different story.
incidentally saying they hate everyone in the USA is an oversimplification... it completely ignores the history of the middle east, first world meddling as well as the social, economic and political realities of the region.
I mean, not many people in south and central america like the USA either because of its policies during the cold war. if hate were enough then the entire world would be throwing itself at american buildings.
Also history says they will fly planes in to buildings with more that 3000 American citizens.... all who had done NOTHING... but live life as you do...... and died due to their hatred. Don't blame yourself or any other American. THEY high jacked the plane and THEY flew it in to buildingssssssss...... REMEMBER! There is nothing intelligent about blaming yourself or any other American.
I'm not usually one to do this as I'm a firm believer in rationally discussing issues such as this but I'm sorry, your post makes no sense literally it's incoherent. I'm not even sure I can make out what point you were trying to convey. was it on "western guilt" or whatever?
I would point out that is qualitatively distinct from acknowledging a problem from its source and addressing it.
Incidentally I don't blame myself nor America. I blame bad government and hubris.
This is a long drawn out argument.... the end of it wouldn't make much since, I only have so many words I can type, I would just go read them all. If you are trying to understand what I'm getting, but even then I don't say much that too many people like. But I don't care, give me a thumbs down, I can't get any clearer, I'm typing english. I wrote a lot on this page, have fun.
then why make it a reply to my post? using reply is supposed to give it context. hitting reply without it being related to any of the previous posts makes it a pretty odd non-sequitur.
honestly, i'm not interested in spending that much time going through your posts... I don't really have the time to spend to do so and you've been rather prolific.
NB: ifinoli is me... it seems the system keeps confusing my google account with my youtube one... #$%@%
You'll notice the original post was mine and you replied to it so I'm not quite certain what you're getting at. But fair enough, we can both now get on lives perfectly content to not know the other has ever existed.
Incidentally, waist is not, as far as I know, a verb.
Not on a man but in his lungs. It was considered torture when the Japanese we're doing it to your troops but it's not now that you're doing it to others. America should take the high road and I'm glad Obama is doing just that.
It's rushing water over the face it's not dunking his head. Very little water gets in the lung if any at all, go to "how it works" and look for water-boarding.... it's science based, not political. I don't know how they did it back then, nor do I think it has any relevance other than it's been used for a long time, so it must work to get information.... we water-board only high ranked terrorist, not suspected or low profile detainees.
It worked and it potentially saved 1000's of lives, which is better than potentially allowing unwanted death of 1000's of lives. I think people forget how the liberals played this out... they first wanted to blame Bush for not knowing and stopping the deaths on 911, then turned around and accused them of war crimes for trying to stop it from happening again. Go figure.
There are more effective ways of governing than conjuring up nightmares and encouraging a population to submit to fear of them. Its an old trick and its time we stopped falling for it.
Why don't you just shut the fuck up and go die in a cave. Oh wait, I think we should water board your ass before that ... that would be JUSTICE! The only terrorist is you ... You have orchestrated 9/11 and no one else you mother fucker!
Americans are brave even more now since 9/11 very much like hero's of flight 93 & there is no place anymore for lies & Fear mongering in our nation! especially from man with 19 % approval rest of the US citizens unafraid Americans knowing max prisons are safe no more silly stuff we are not dumb we know we have 3 terrorists in our prisons & nothing has happened we know also Charles Manson hasn't made a huge family behind bars that are killing us all, nor has timothy Mcbay built a killing group
The way he's chosing to 'defend' his administration now is pretty much the same way he chose to defend the Nation. By shooting it in the foot. 3000 killed on 9/11 because they didn't think terrorism was important enough to read IT reports or keep Richard Clarke in his job. 5000 more killed in two wars that only made things worse by quadrupling Iran's power, and allowing the Taliban to take over Pakistan. Nice going, Dick.
A smart person never dives into unknown waters without first checking the depth of the water below the surface. Obama leapt before he looked when he announced the closing of Gitmo. And he did it to score cheap political points with Europe and the Code Pink crowd. He didnt have a plan to close Gitmo BEFORE announcing its closure, his dive into unknown waters is likely to end up badly. Even if he doesnt bash his head on rocks below the surface, hes likely to come up with mud on his face.
any normal, thoughtful person would weigh the risks and come out of the argument with definately torture these islamofascists till they drown, or maybe its just me..
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I don't know who posted this video, but it's cut up so badly. Cheney did an awesome job following the exact discussion by Obama. Obama is backed into a corner, doesn't have a plan... decide now, think later seems to be the Obama's plan. He wants to change everything about america, and doesn't want public debate about it? How scary is that? God bless Cheney! That took a lot of guts.
No, actually I think the assholes who decided to eliminate Habeas Corpus and due process, shred the Constitution, introduce warrantless wiretapping of Americans, ignore the Geneva Conventions which we helped to write, and commit war crimes that we prosecuted the Japanese for doing after WWII are the ones who "changed everything about America."
I think Obama would like to finally RESTORE America to what it used to be. We'll see...
War Crimes......... read article 2 of the constitution! Where the government has a duty to protect the citizens of the US. You where not alive during WWII.... it is much like the crisis of 911... we stood our ground with people who wanted to destroy us... no major attack on US soil til 911....... We are not the enemies.
The POTUS (Prez of US) takes an oath to Defend the constitution of the US not its people.
The WWII 9/11 comparison doesn't make any sense because it was a state power attacking land that was NOT a US state. Plus this whole thing about actual war ya know?
In addition WAR was declared officially by Congress.
The supposed hijackers were linked to former CIA assets including Al-Qaeda: friends become enemies...
If we are not the enemies why do we torture, detain and kill without any justice?!?
WWII is much like 911? You'd better hope it's not, because, during WWII ONE country chose to uphold its principles even when it was inconvenient, and not torture prisoners for information. The other country thought the results justified the means, and DID torture prisoners for information.
Which country was victorious?
Better yet, victorious BECAUSE of its principles, not IN SPITE of them, as you're suggesting.
I don't see our enemy following the geneva convention, sending plane in to kill innocent people, chopping heads of of innocent americans... if that is not the time to stand up for America, I don't know what is? What else should we do to make them like us... but die... that's all they want. We can not change to suit everyone, it's not possible. We are the best country there is, why do we need to change. We can not be perfect but we are still the best there is, otherwise, why would you be here.
we waterboard our own people for training purposes, as well as making them stand for hours at a time. it's common and not illegal.
you would rather the attack on L.A. was successful? better to lose thousands more US citizens than waterboard three guys?
it only takes 14 seconds max to waterboard someone. even though the did it like a hundred times, they remain uninjured- it simply creates the illusion of being drowned, not actual drowning.
stopping the suffocation before they expire doesn't mean they weren't suffocating. SERE school was meant to prepare our people to face what might be done to them... not as an example of what we should be doing to others. we study criminality to prevent it ... not engage in it.
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Water-boarding.... hardly qualifies as torture when it saved 100s to 1000s of people. Permanent scaring or health problems happen.... it just makes them panic. I bet if one of those guys had one of your family members and had information, you'd be all for the Water-boarding.
If it was the KKK holding a ceremony and plotting to kill some black people you would think differently... I do believe 911 was enough evidence. Or we can just wait til it happens again, if you need more evidence. If you are waiting on a confession you aren't going to get it. What evidence would convince you? Be specific!!!!!!!!
Your argument, when broken down, hinges on a single premise:
That waterboarding actually gives good information.
I'm asking you to provide me with proof from a reliable source, preferrably someone directly involved, that can corraborate your story.
But here's the trick:
Everyone involved says the opposite of you, and the only people who say what you say are rich, and powerful, who ordered it single-handedly for their own political purposes.
Tell me who is involved and has all the information. Don't act like you or anyone else knows what is going on... no one knows with certainty, except you (evidently) and our top ranked officials. And don't make such strong statement Like EVERYONE, it makes you look stupid, everyone knows that answer is FALSE on a true and false test. ONLY. You're spouting at the keyboard and it's soooo Obvious. The only person you are TRICKING is yourself. You can't trick me..... I'm answering FALSE.
Go do your own damn research, cupcake. You're asking me to do the research I asked YOU to come up with to prove your allegation?
Absurd. This is why nobody listens to ignorant people, except other ignorant people. You can't think for yourselves and you sit dumbfounded when someone challenges you on your bullshit.
If you can't stand the heat, get out the fuckin' kitchen.
What allegation am I making... and what do you want me to prove. You want to protect terrorist, and I don't. That is a pretty basic statement... if you need more just wait for the information to come out like everyone else. Don't act like you've done research by watching the news and listening to Nancy Pelosi.
"What allegation am I making... and what do you want me to prove."
This:
"...when it saved 100s to 1000s of people."
That's the only thing you use to justify torture, yet everyone involved in the torturing of AZ and KSM has said that it didn't save anybody, and that it was a calculated decision on the part of the executive to drum up false support for the invasion in Iraq.
That's the proof we have, from Ali Soufan, Lawrence Wilkerson, and many other people.
"If you can't stand the heat, get out the fuckin' kitchen."
You like to use clichés and rhetoric from Pelosi. You haven't brought any heat I'm still here. I've heard all the arguments... I stay well informed... by I do have my own mind... I listen to the Dems speak about it... I know the law... I can't help but hear what everyone else has to say about it. Because I have intellect, I can look at the big picture. With out an Americans, this is no America... this is about existence.
Except I'm not an idiot, but someone simply asking you to prove what you are saying with tangible facts.
Statements from people involved that prove what you are saying is true.
The only idiotic thing about that, is that it's useless, as you will keep running your mouth instead of researching what you've been asked to research.
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What about the people who flew planes in the WTC, did they follow geneva convention, did the guys chopping american heads off follow geneva convention. Don't try and convince me who the bad guys are, I know who they are. He explained that the only ones water-boarded is the highest treat terrorist... why do you want to protect the terrorist.... YEAH I CALLED THEM TERRORISTS.... that's what they are with the name or not.
Then enlightenment me oh smart and intelligent one. You people just listen to people like Palosi... people that will flat out lie and count on the fact that people are too lazy actually check up on it. "My GOP stupidity"? Wow.... that just shows how one track minded you are... I'm an independent... not a Bush lover.... everything is so black and white with you.... I am now beginning to think I'm stupid... stupid for replying.
"people that will flat out lie and count on the fact that people are too lazy actually check up on it. "
Oh so you did do some research on your claims? Care to link them so I can take a look, or will you continue to post incoherent run-on sentences like a seven year old?
Independent my asshole.
"I am now beginning to think I'm stupid"
Join the club. I've known you were stupid ever since you said "Cheney did something right."
I assume you can research it yourself. I don't throw up links. I read for my own interest and move on. I could probably find something you can read in less then 5 minutes. But I'm not going to waist my time. You replied to me, calling me an idiot, and you haven't proven to me yet I was wrong. You can't change my mind, I've been through all that... listening to everyone, and agreeing... I've been a proclaimed Liberal, and now un-proclaimed. I know people like you stand for nothing.
I believe I can argue anything and everything in my own words, something you can't do... something I used to not be-able to do without reading something first, so I could copy someone's opinion, and not know why I'm doing it. I can argue both sides, but I can only believe one.
Oh please. Don't make judgments about my character when you don't even know me. I can't think of anything more pathetically juvenile.
"You can't change my mind,"
Which is why I'm not even wasting my time getting into a debate about it. You've already made up your mind, you won't look at facts, you refuse to give me sources to your claims, etc.
You're just another boorish troll with nothing interesting to say in the least.
Now you're making a coment about my character. You could have me if you tried. Only liberal girls are trolls... they need womens rights because they can't get a good job like the ones that actually take good care of their selves. You must be a closet freak, the way you talk to women also... no good looking women would put up with that shit.
Go to "how stuff works" it's all science based... I tried the link on here and it didn't work... I put it in you message box.... look up water-boarding there. There's my PROOF.......Obama and the liberal congress haven't yet proved otherwise. So technically you still have to Prove your case... moron!!!!!!
Take a good look at the face of evil, because that asshole cheney is it. They're main talking point is how they're administration kept us safe, and yet the biggest attack in america's history took place while they were in charge....discusting!
What's so bad about that? So Obama's big talking point is how he inherited a mess, and can't seem to get shit done. All he knows is to spend money now. Fear an economic collapse , spend now.... think later. Executive order now, think about how to do it right later.... I don't get in my car and start it, and then decide where I will go in it. There's a lot of faith in an unknown plan to close gitmo. Obama's talking point is "last 8 years." He has no idea what he's doing RIGHT NOW!
Cheney is a patriot for coming forward and setting the record straight in the face of the shameful politicization of the Gitmo and EIT issues at the expense of our national security by the Obama administration. Obama's flip flops on nat'l security issues demonstrate that it is one thing to pander to your liberal constituents in campaign rhetoric, but quite another to govern. The Bush Gitmo, EIT and military tribunals policies are now being vindicated by the flip-flopping Obama admin.
Please tell us the rest of the story.... I don't get it! Enron collapsed because of sketchy accounting practices.... that is what the ruling was. So are you saying our court system is to stupid to figure things out? Now I feel safe that they will take care of the terrorist..... why don't we just set them free now, so we don't have to pay these stupid people to screw it up. Ha ha ha!
Geez man, you protest too much. He who smelt it dealt it. I smell something and the dogs can sense it too. I think it is fear, but it might be garlic and ginger.
I couldn't watch all of this. It's painful to see this lying prick up there talking about "national security". We'd be far more secure had they never orchastrated the 9/11 tragedy.
Set them free? Or put them in our regular prisons as planned? And they are not all terrorists because none of them have been put on trial yet. They are just enemy combatants or whatever the term is that means that we can hold them for as long as we want with no rights and no proof.
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New abuse cases from the Obama administration. Pirates were shot in the head to save one American. I'd take water boarding any day over a bullet in the head.
I'm wondering if the guy who gave you a thumbs up because of the word... Prisoner abuse photos... because they trusted that you actually had some.... LINK WAS AN ERROR.... This is how liberal rumors get started.
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I find it interesting that when the Japanese used waterboarding on U.S. soldiers during WWII it was deemed unlawful and torture. Yet when we waterboard our C.I.A. and Cheney claim it's not. They even say it's useful and helped catch Osama Bin Laden without a shred of actual evidence.
davitodude 8 months ago
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davitodude 8 months ago
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davitodude 8 months ago
One day, kameron found a note in her yard saying that bloody mary is going to come in her home and kill her at night in 3days. kameron threw the note away and three days later her parents found her dead, laying on the bathroom floor with blood everywhere.
someone didn't forward the message to the three videos and she went to te hospital and got pneumonia and died.
5 vids: nothing will happen to u
3 videos: u will get pneumonia
1 vid: bloody mary wil haunt you
KiTTyPrYdE013 2 years ago
For the last time. I'm not going to prove anything. You know how I feel, we all want to see the info. Obama formerly wanted to release and I say please do Obama. Cheney is asking Obama to release it. Does anyone get that. We have people on one hand claiming it doesn't work and has not evidence, and you want me to prove it does. Last I heard we are all waiting on info. from Obama. Why no info? why is he holding out now? All you guys want to see Cheney go down... and you have nothing!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
How am I supposed to prove anything.... I'm just giving my well formed opinion... call me stupid... call me an idiot, but you know no more than I do, everyone already has all the information that they want to know.... I gave you information on unbias links, that's all I can do... I'm just giving you my well thought out formed opinion... because as an American, I CAN DO THAT.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
I'm not a Bush lover, nor any Harvard politician lover... including Obama. These people are not above me, nor is anyone playing along with them. But one thing the Bush Admin. did right was protect us, government is supposed to be there to protect us, the CIA is supposed to protect us. There is a lot our government shouldn't be doing, but protecting us is the #1 job.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
The biggest attack on US soil happened on Bushes fucking watch, what the fuck are you talking about he protected us?!
The Bush admin ignored intel briefing after intel briefing that said "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" months before 9/11, and then they attacked us.
Are you fucking daft?
F33bs 2 years ago
ok, see, i disagree on this point. the #1 goal of a democratic government is to uphold the law and it's the law's responsibility to define what must be protected and how. what you're asking for is a totalitarian system where a single enitty decides it will protect the people however it sees fit. they had a system like this before: it was called feudalism.
one branch of the government should not act unilaterally regardless of its goal.
this isn't about right vs left. it's about rational gov.
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
Only looks evil when he can look at evil in the face and spit.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Tell me what he is doing right..... he can't get anything done... his own liberal dominating congress turned against him over 90% voted against closing gitmo, because he hasn't released information. They are afraid to look like idiots because they are up for re-election. What does that tell you... if it doesn't tell you anything I can't.... Obama can do no wrong.... Doesn't take an idiot to love one.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Something happened Sunday that pro-waterboard / pro Gitmo folks might want to consider:
The two most respected military men in America:
General Collin Powell and General David Petraeus
BOTH said that waterboarding was wrong and that Gitmo should be closed and suspected terrorists should get a trial.
These are the two BIG generals of our time! One is STILL charged with keeping us safe. Patraeus said on Sunday that Obama is NOT making us less safe.
But hey...Dick knows more than them.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Here is one for everyone! Does LAW tell you what's right and wrong? ANYONE can pass a LAW! LAW does not rule my life! I try and obey the LAW, but if someone threatens my family or hurts them, I'm protecting them. We are all like family here in the US... we protect it. This is our home. Others want to destroy it. And all you are stuck on is LAW. Law is not moral... some mores make laws... but mostly humans make law....STAND UP FOR SOMETHING.... you are just drowns if you are ruled by law.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
If only LAWS rule your life..." Law is King"... you are not free. Gooood God... help us all if Obama, or any other president for that matter, is our king.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Perhaps that's why the Republican party has been bitch slapped from coast to coast. The fact that you have to work so hard spamming the board with propaganda while failing to convince anyone of anything kinda makes you look like a pathetic tool with way too much time on your hands. Sorry bullshitter, but we're not buying it. Buh bye now!
LuvChaos 2 years ago
Cheney only cares that we know his twisted version of the truth. Just as you sit there admonishing "liberals" for following Pelosi, you're swinging from Cheney's nuts by reciting every piece of bullshit that comes out of his goddamn lying mouth like a good little cocksucker. You wingnuts are nothing if not clueless fucking hypocrites. LOL
LuvChaos 2 years ago 2
Moving on now, I wonder what happened to all those "Sleeper Cells" that Cheney and Co claimed had infiltrated the entire US. I don't recall any of them being broken up while they were so busy "keeping us safe" and bankrupting the shit out of the country. Oh wait, maybe that was more BULLSHIT that belongs in the Bush/Cheney hall of shame along with those missing WMD's. Keep talking, "Dick" because the more you talk, the more your lies and criminal activities will come back to haunt your ass.
LuvChaos 2 years ago
How nice of cheney to make speeches now that he's out of office. He was a big prick before and after 9/11. He used 9/11 to line the pockets of his friends in the defense industry. He is a thief, a liar, and a war criminal. Why is KSM still alive?
dlhitch2007 2 years ago 4
Just to let you know Haliburtan was the only contractor big enough, and had the capacity and the ability to do the job. They where the only company with all the available resources needed for the job. It would have been more of a crime to enrich a company with less of the capabilities that Haliburtan had. Haliburtan was more ready then all the other bidders, they won the contract fair and square.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"Just to let you know Haliburtan was the only contractor big enough, and had the capacity and the ability to do the job."
Agreed, and Cheney, the former CEO, started a war based on lies to line their pockets.
dlhitch2007 2 years ago
Obama is lining the pockets of the Democratic party and all it's counterparts. Atleast Haliburtan actually had to do something to get the money.... ie... CONTRACT. Obama is giving it away for nothing.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
The best and most competent vice president of the USA
michel1835 2 years ago
shut up ! criminal !
DOLEBET 2 years ago
An eye for an eye. If we tortue them , we better expect our prisoners to be tortured.
LER77 2 years ago
As if that has not been happening all along. What do you call cutting off heads and putting the video on the internet?
3n1gm0 2 years ago
unethical
kanacubancoffee 2 years ago
Shut up!!!
Evenor48 2 years ago
So where were they going to attack next? He just said they obtained information on terrorist plots...
KaraLeroux 2 years ago
There were several, one that I remember was LAX, and just recently more where arrested... homegrown Alquida planned to attack a ceniga<---- spelling? in New York. Homegrown terrorist... American Alquida sympathizers.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
war criminal
CliveSinclairZX 2 years ago 2
,Actually the only and sole comptent I have is for fanatical muslims and their resilience in converting the world to it's most primary sta
classicallady 2 years ago
Americans will hang you, pig
dukeofpuddles1 2 years ago
Perhaps you are not aware that these deals were CLOSED way before they decide to outpost sadda....He was a dictator and an obnoxious person but you have to bear in mind that Bush father, very accurately and wisely did not go to overthrow him for he knew nothing good would come out of there for they have 3 different ethnic groups who in fact are tribals and profess a gigantic different faith and policies within islam. Try some research and check for yourself.
classicallady 2 years ago
Cheney rules. Too awesome
TheIllegit 2 years ago
We've been attacked so many times over the years that since 9/11 the attacks pail in comparison to that day and before.
I'll make one more point. The party leaders of the left in this country felt their power eroding after 9/11. The only way they were going to get their power back was to attack Bush and convince as many people in this country of their made up lies. The kool aid drinkers fell for it. Now Obama doesn't want a truth commission.
Why should he? Think about it!
yt540 2 years ago
Well I assume if the truth came out he would have egg on his face.... so everyone's just going to have to trust him on this... besides it's so much fun to make up lies, and keep people guessing. He built his presidency on "the failure of the last 8 years" it would ruin him if people had some respect for Bush keeping them safe. That wouldn't be as much fun.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
mccainisthrough, I rarely comment to folks like you. Guy's like you are an embarrassment to the men and women that have protected our country since it was formed by our forefathers.
You comment that former Mr. Cheney should be water boarded illustrates that this act that you on the left rail against is as bogus as President Obama's claim that he doesn't want to look back with a truth commission. He, like you just wants to criticize which show's the shallowness of today's democrat party.
yt540 2 years ago
chill out man lol this is youtube. most of the comments here are bound to be ridiculous
men and women who have been protecting our country that long probably need a day off by now :D
cpricejones 2 years ago
Dude, its not only democrats. Centrist Independents are against the prior administration as well. Not only did Bush/Cheney take away a ton of personal freedoms from us, they caused the world to like us and have raised more terrorists than have found. Not to mention all the TERRORIST attacks against our troops in Iraq, simply because they wanted to oust Saddam. America hasn't been attacked by terrorists on their watch, but Americans have... A lot of Americans.
siegristrm 2 years ago 3
It's just lies they have to tell themselves. They have beat us inside the US... They have made people doubt their own values and doubt this countries goodness, people are rolling over for them... Obama is one of them.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Look...if there is anyone hear shallor is you...You are purposedly trying to extend bushco lies.... The men and women who have died in Iraq and the other 35000 injured for life - some came back with no limbs at all - have endured all that horror because bush LIED to the country and decided to INVADE, another sovereign country with the sheer goal of drawing contracts and deals to his "pals" and none other tehn HALLIBURTON.
classicallady 2 years ago
I don't beleive a single word you just said. the Iraq war is a disaster and was not the right thing to do, but to assert that Bush lied to make that case is to reject facts and engage fantasy, and I prefer the truth however unpleasant over the fantasy.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
Well dear whether you believe it or not will not change facts and reality. Do yourself a favor and check VanityFair Archives...You can also go to Europeans newspapers - I don't know how many languages you speak but the articles are there for anyone who bothers to look it up. America has no menory whatsoever and the media here is not worried to bring back "old" news and march them up...Neither are politicians.You being a Canadian should know this...
classicallady 2 years ago
Being a Canuck, I know news outlets here are less than capable. That is why I disagree that Bush lied. his case was weak, and I wouldn't have gone with it, but that doesn't make him a liar. If anything my own experience here have lead me to believe that politicians are almost all tricksters and term limits should be set for anyone in power. Left and right are false paradigms, and most anti war folks I have met are hypocrits and dishonest.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
What war are you reffering to on your last sentence???You mean the INVASION AND TAKE OVER of Iraq??? I am progressive/centrist...but if you want to hang to your denial...be my guest.
classicallady 2 years ago
simply people who posit themselves as being anti war. one could be a pacifist, and legitimately oppose all wars. we have American soliders who fled to Canada to not have to go (back for some) to Afghanistan or Iraq, yet some of these same high profile people have capmpaigned for action in Darfur. One may argue one a good war and one bad, but one cannot be a pacifist only when it suits oneself....
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
I am not centrist, progressive, conservative, Libertarian or any such label. not any more. I have contempt for much of north america, but not hatred.
If anything I am a futurist. Someone concerned about the social, political, environmental and intellectual heritage we pass on to future generations. I value objective truth over subjective truth. I trust no government to do as I wish, so I support no actions that grow governments.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago 2
Future does not exist without the experiences of the past and the present..Intellectual heritage can only survie through educating and granting all population with outstanding education...not an elitist one but rather a broader position where all can have access to it...Without foramting and educating a nation it's hope for intellectual survice is non existant....I don't have a comptent to North America ge...
classicallady 2 years ago
I see no reason why intellectual heritage is exclusive to equal eduacation. We don't have equal education anywhere in the world yet intellectual heritages exist. people are not all equal, some are more adept a learning, some prefer simple lives. I prefer whatever direction provides options for all to engage how they see fit. It is up to the individual to strive for success in order to gain it.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
God Bless You yt540. Pay no mind to the thumbs down... I only had 1 thumbs up to give you, but I'd give you 100 more.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
We should waterboard cheney until he admits he's an asshole and a liar. This guy should be tried and hung. He's already admitted breaking the National Laws, International Laws, Uniform Code of Military Justice, Geneva Accords, and all other formal and informal civilian and military doctrine on torture.
Let Harry Whittington shoot cheney in the face with a shotgun.
mccainisthrough 2 years ago
And how luck we would be should Liz be by his side and disappear too.
classicallady 2 years ago
I think he makes a lot of sense if you just listen to what he's saying... I think a lot of people hate Cheney without even listening to anything he actually says.
cgalbsgo 2 years ago
That's silly. I listened. I've BEEN listening to him for the better part of a decade.
What he's saying is, essentially, that the New York Times is evil, and that torture isn't wrong when HE decides that it isn't--and besides, it's not even torture, it's "enhanced interrogation." That kind of mendacity is what Sen. Moynihan had in mind when he coined the phrase, "Defining deviancy down."
Cheney is reverse engineering a rationale for lawlessness. I despise him BECAUSE of what he says
SteveAndIdiAmin 2 years ago 2
5 minutes vs 1h? I guess he's just uninspired.
carrierexchange 2 years ago
Wouldn't it be interesting if we were attacked again but on a larger scare in say teh next couple years? Right when we are struggling through this recession.
bubonick23 2 years ago
That would be very uninteresting.... I hate Obama but I wouldn't wish that on us.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
The NY Times endangered our safety? A fucking newspaper story endangered our safety?
What a dick.
Dergfight 2 years ago 2
This Dick needs to swing from his neck.....
RacerEckss 2 years ago
ELEPHANTS R FUCKED !!!!!!!. Obama 2012 !
jandean61 2 years ago
We are all going to be fucked if that is true!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
May former Vice President Richard Cheney re-live for eternity the experiences of others as they were tortured.
Whatever you do to others, you do to yourself.
milkgodnl 2 years ago
clueless on who the real enemy is? it'd be the the guy who orchestrated 9/11 killing thousands of our citizens unprovoked. that's who you're defending.
libs, for god's sake stop letting your hatred for republicans make you sound like terrorists yourselves
geebstx 2 years ago
Unfortunately, common sense is out the doors these days and so are values. They can't argue without a copy of the New York Times. They think smart is always something no one has done, when really it has and didn't work. Obama's like an infomercial, they make the new sound great by making the old seem boring and frustrating, but when you get it, you only use it once and wished you'd never spend $19.95, while it sells for $60 in Europe.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
So if that's the case we should fly planes, into terrror training camps or just fly planes into a building holding people that look like terrorist........ great logic you have.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Cheney himself mentioned the Anthrax attack.
How come that doesn't count when, in the next sentence he claims there were no other attacks after 9/11?
400 Gitmo prisoners let go on Cheney's watch...before 1/20/09
Brush up your Spanish, Dick
dogstar7 2 years ago
Our country needs a new independent investigation into 9/11 and the criminals who planned and carried out this treasonous act need to be brought to justice sooner rather than later.
gingerpyle24 2 years ago
Basically "There's nothing wrong with what we did at all but you know it's ok for us to have violated American and international law because we only did it to really bad people"
I'm speechless... throw in any number of experts saying that these techniques have been counter productive and your arguments go to shit Mr Cheney... what are you left with? A flimsy excuse that you were scared shitless after the WTC? That's understandable but it's not a defense.
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
there were no laws broken. we poured water on a man who was responsible for killing thousands of citizens. we made people stand up for several hours at a time, oh no! i hope you're never responsible for protecting another soul considering your lack of judgement and common sense.
they send us videos of them decapitating people with rusty blades and fly planes into buildings because they hate us, not because we poured water on someones face.
geebstx 2 years ago
torture is illegal under US law - and if you don't think that waterboarding, which is a lot more than "pouring water on a man", isn't torture when virtually every single organization with some authority on the subject has said it is I'd have to ask you what your basis for that is. i mean, might as well say that the rack is just gently tugging on someone's arms and legs.
regardless it doesn't matter what he did, what his crimes were, it is still against bith US and international law.
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
Well it's a bit different then a crime in the US when you have an organization aiming to kill as many Americans as possible. Where their motive is to destoy us completely. War and US law is two different things! I prefer we not read Miranda Rights to terrorists. What human rights does one have that has no respect for human rights to began with? Internationally.... everyone is glad we have them and not them.... International law is not the issue here.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Comment removed
LABABIL 2 years ago
You should know that law is made by humans, some laws are fair, some laws make no sense at all, law is made to keep you and me in order, law does not determine morals, and determine true values, it is values and morals that make certain laws. If you speed it is against the law. does speeding make you a bad person? you don't care about others on the road, yes it says something about your morals... you're speeding because you're trying to get to the hospital... different story.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
incidentally saying they hate everyone in the USA is an oversimplification... it completely ignores the history of the middle east, first world meddling as well as the social, economic and political realities of the region.
I mean, not many people in south and central america like the USA either because of its policies during the cold war. if hate were enough then the entire world would be throwing itself at american buildings.
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
Also history says they will fly planes in to buildings with more that 3000 American citizens.... all who had done NOTHING... but live life as you do...... and died due to their hatred. Don't blame yourself or any other American. THEY high jacked the plane and THEY flew it in to buildingssssssss...... REMEMBER! There is nothing intelligent about blaming yourself or any other American.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
I'm not usually one to do this as I'm a firm believer in rationally discussing issues such as this but I'm sorry, your post makes no sense literally it's incoherent. I'm not even sure I can make out what point you were trying to convey. was it on "western guilt" or whatever?
I would point out that is qualitatively distinct from acknowledging a problem from its source and addressing it.
Incidentally I don't blame myself nor America. I blame bad government and hubris.
ifinoli 2 years ago
This is a long drawn out argument.... the end of it wouldn't make much since, I only have so many words I can type, I would just go read them all. If you are trying to understand what I'm getting, but even then I don't say much that too many people like. But I don't care, give me a thumbs down, I can't get any clearer, I'm typing english. I wrote a lot on this page, have fun.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
then why make it a reply to my post? using reply is supposed to give it context. hitting reply without it being related to any of the previous posts makes it a pretty odd non-sequitur.
honestly, i'm not interested in spending that much time going through your posts... I don't really have the time to spend to do so and you've been rather prolific.
NB: ifinoli is me... it seems the system keeps confusing my google account with my youtube one... #$%@%
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
Than why waist your time replying to mine in the first place.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
You'll notice the original post was mine and you replied to it so I'm not quite certain what you're getting at. But fair enough, we can both now get on lives perfectly content to not know the other has ever existed.
Incidentally, waist is not, as far as I know, a verb.
OrbisFerrum 2 years ago
Not on a man but in his lungs. It was considered torture when the Japanese we're doing it to your troops but it's not now that you're doing it to others. America should take the high road and I'm glad Obama is doing just that.
carrierexchange 2 years ago
It's rushing water over the face it's not dunking his head. Very little water gets in the lung if any at all, go to "how it works" and look for water-boarding.... it's science based, not political. I don't know how they did it back then, nor do I think it has any relevance other than it's been used for a long time, so it must work to get information.... we water-board only high ranked terrorist, not suspected or low profile detainees.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
It worked and it potentially saved 1000's of lives, which is better than potentially allowing unwanted death of 1000's of lives. I think people forget how the liberals played this out... they first wanted to blame Bush for not knowing and stopping the deaths on 911, then turned around and accused them of war crimes for trying to stop it from happening again. Go figure.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
sarasmiles05, read the definition of waterboarding on wikipedia. It goes like this:
"By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die."
Now what do you understand by inhalation?
Oh and it's torture by INTERNATIONAL LAW.
carrierexchange 2 years ago
Je veu dire francaise...Pardonnez moi
classicallady 2 years ago
weak
vertigate 2 years ago
three words: Painful Heart Attack
jsfumato 2 years ago 2
There are more effective ways of governing than conjuring up nightmares and encouraging a population to submit to fear of them. Its an old trick and its time we stopped falling for it.
Hufflewaffle 2 years ago 3
Well said!
ver506 2 years ago
Why don't you just shut the fuck up and go die in a cave. Oh wait, I think we should water board your ass before that ... that would be JUSTICE! The only terrorist is you ... You have orchestrated 9/11 and no one else you mother fucker!
llpal4ever 2 years ago
Where the fuck is pres. Bush?
AstoundedAtheist 2 years ago
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Americans are brave even more now since 9/11 very much like hero's of flight 93 & there is no place anymore for lies & Fear mongering in our nation! especially from man with 19 % approval rest of the US citizens unafraid Americans knowing max prisons are safe no more silly stuff we are not dumb we know we have 3 terrorists in our prisons & nothing has happened we know also Charles Manson hasn't made a huge family behind bars that are killing us all, nor has timothy Mcbay built a killing group
repubtodem 2 years ago
The way he's chosing to 'defend' his administration now is pretty much the same way he chose to defend the Nation. By shooting it in the foot. 3000 killed on 9/11 because they didn't think terrorism was important enough to read IT reports or keep Richard Clarke in his job. 5000 more killed in two wars that only made things worse by quadrupling Iran's power, and allowing the Taliban to take over Pakistan. Nice going, Dick.
OlivierdeAthos 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
God I hate this guy.
aprilmarco 2 years ago
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A smart person never dives into unknown waters without first checking the depth of the water below the surface. Obama leapt before he looked when he announced the closing of Gitmo. And he did it to score cheap political points with Europe and the Code Pink crowd. He didnt have a plan to close Gitmo BEFORE announcing its closure, his dive into unknown waters is likely to end up badly. Even if he doesnt bash his head on rocks below the surface, hes likely to come up with mud on his face.
dkkght46 2 years ago
anybody who says that we shouldnt have dunked those clowns underwater, are either un-american, or brainwashed by barry's teleprompter
duvalians1 2 years ago
That's the fascist spirit! No really. You remind me of the Nazis.
mrbhave 2 years ago
You're a disgrace for pretending that what happened was dunking terrorists underwater.
CarryANation 2 years ago 3
And you're the big expert right?
duvalians1 2 years ago
Biggest terrorist.
lonovik 2 years ago 2
where the HELL is G DUBYAH???? pussy
SlapHappyWrath 2 years ago
umm..... He's no longer the president..
duvalians1 2 years ago
any normal, thoughtful person would weigh the risks and come out of the argument with definately torture these islamofascists till they drown, or maybe its just me..
duvalians1 2 years ago
It's just you. Although I think I remember Jesus saying how good and effective torture is. Torture for Jesus!
keithrockerboblewis 2 years ago
Phoney Moralizing = Upholding the Constitution and our treaties
RobertSeattle 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't know who posted this video, but it's cut up so badly. Cheney did an awesome job following the exact discussion by Obama. Obama is backed into a corner, doesn't have a plan... decide now, think later seems to be the Obama's plan. He wants to change everything about america, and doesn't want public debate about it? How scary is that? God bless Cheney! That took a lot of guts.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"He wants to change everything about america,"
No, actually I think the assholes who decided to eliminate Habeas Corpus and due process, shred the Constitution, introduce warrantless wiretapping of Americans, ignore the Geneva Conventions which we helped to write, and commit war crimes that we prosecuted the Japanese for doing after WWII are the ones who "changed everything about America."
I think Obama would like to finally RESTORE America to what it used to be. We'll see...
OlivierdeAthos 2 years ago 4
War Crimes......... read article 2 of the constitution! Where the government has a duty to protect the citizens of the US. You where not alive during WWII.... it is much like the crisis of 911... we stood our ground with people who wanted to destroy us... no major attack on US soil til 911....... We are not the enemies.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
The POTUS (Prez of US) takes an oath to Defend the constitution of the US not its people.
The WWII 9/11 comparison doesn't make any sense because it was a state power attacking land that was NOT a US state. Plus this whole thing about actual war ya know?
In addition WAR was declared officially by Congress.
The supposed hijackers were linked to former CIA assets including Al-Qaeda: friends become enemies...
If we are not the enemies why do we torture, detain and kill without any justice?!?
micahgee 2 years ago
"it is much like the crisis of 911... "
WWII is much like 911? You'd better hope it's not, because, during WWII ONE country chose to uphold its principles even when it was inconvenient, and not torture prisoners for information. The other country thought the results justified the means, and DID torture prisoners for information.
Which country was victorious?
Better yet, victorious BECAUSE of its principles, not IN SPITE of them, as you're suggesting.
OlivierdeAthos 2 years ago 3
Tout a faire tres bien dit....
classicallady 2 years ago
Je t'aime.
:*
OlivierdeAthos 2 years ago
C'est drole vous etes le 4eme Francois que je trouve ici. Moi...? Italiene...A tout a l'heure?...Salut
classicallady 2 years ago
Etes-vous Milady? =D
OlivierdeAthos 2 years ago
I don't see our enemy following the geneva convention, sending plane in to kill innocent people, chopping heads of of innocent americans... if that is not the time to stand up for America, I don't know what is? What else should we do to make them like us... but die... that's all they want. We can not change to suit everyone, it's not possible. We are the best country there is, why do we need to change. We can not be perfect but we are still the best there is, otherwise, why would you be here.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"I don't see our enemy following the geneva convention"
So do two wrongs make a right? Seriously did you not have a mother?
If we torture, it justifies torture by the terrorists.
F33bs 2 years ago
we waterboard our own people for training purposes, as well as making them stand for hours at a time. it's common and not illegal.
you would rather the attack on L.A. was successful? better to lose thousands more US citizens than waterboard three guys?
it only takes 14 seconds max to waterboard someone. even though the did it like a hundred times, they remain uninjured- it simply creates the illusion of being drowned, not actual drowning.
terrorists, however, cause real deaths
geebstx 2 years ago
stopping the suffocation before they expire doesn't mean they weren't suffocating. SERE school was meant to prepare our people to face what might be done to them... not as an example of what we should be doing to others. we study criminality to prevent it ... not engage in it.
chutney2000 2 years ago 2
WATERBOARDING HASN'T SOLVED ANY IMMINENT THREAT EVER.
How come that does not get through to you?
We get more information when we DON'T torture, according to every CIA agent and report about the subject.
This is not an episode of 24. It's real life.
F33bs 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Water-boarding.... hardly qualifies as torture when it saved 100s to 1000s of people. Permanent scaring or health problems happen.... it just makes them panic. I bet if one of those guys had one of your family members and had information, you'd be all for the Water-boarding.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
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~~permanent caring or health problems DO NOT happen~~
Two wrongs don't make a right..... It hardly qualifies as an eye for an eye...... they would take your eye out, we just make them feel like we would.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"hardly qualifies as torture when it saved 100s to 1000s of people."
Prove this. I expect solid, irrefutable evidence- sourced, and with links to the details.
F33bs 2 years ago
If it was the KKK holding a ceremony and plotting to kill some black people you would think differently... I do believe 911 was enough evidence. Or we can just wait til it happens again, if you need more evidence. If you are waiting on a confession you aren't going to get it. What evidence would convince you? Be specific!!!!!!!!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Your argument, when broken down, hinges on a single premise:
That waterboarding actually gives good information.
I'm asking you to provide me with proof from a reliable source, preferrably someone directly involved, that can corraborate your story.
But here's the trick:
Everyone involved says the opposite of you, and the only people who say what you say are rich, and powerful, who ordered it single-handedly for their own political purposes.
F33bs 2 years ago
Tell me who is involved and has all the information. Don't act like you or anyone else knows what is going on... no one knows with certainty, except you (evidently) and our top ranked officials. And don't make such strong statement Like EVERYONE, it makes you look stupid, everyone knows that answer is FALSE on a true and false test. ONLY. You're spouting at the keyboard and it's soooo Obvious. The only person you are TRICKING is yourself. You can't trick me..... I'm answering FALSE.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Go do your own damn research, cupcake. You're asking me to do the research I asked YOU to come up with to prove your allegation?
Absurd. This is why nobody listens to ignorant people, except other ignorant people. You can't think for yourselves and you sit dumbfounded when someone challenges you on your bullshit.
If you can't stand the heat, get out the fuckin' kitchen.
F33bs 2 years ago
What allegation am I making... and what do you want me to prove. You want to protect terrorist, and I don't. That is a pretty basic statement... if you need more just wait for the information to come out like everyone else. Don't act like you've done research by watching the news and listening to Nancy Pelosi.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"What allegation am I making... and what do you want me to prove."
This:
"...when it saved 100s to 1000s of people."
That's the only thing you use to justify torture, yet everyone involved in the torturing of AZ and KSM has said that it didn't save anybody, and that it was a calculated decision on the part of the executive to drum up false support for the invasion in Iraq.
That's the proof we have, from Ali Soufan, Lawrence Wilkerson, and many other people.
What do you have?
F33bs 2 years ago
"If you can't stand the heat, get out the fuckin' kitchen."
You like to use clichés and rhetoric from Pelosi. You haven't brought any heat I'm still here. I've heard all the arguments... I stay well informed... by I do have my own mind... I listen to the Dems speak about it... I know the law... I can't help but hear what everyone else has to say about it. Because I have intellect, I can look at the big picture. With out an Americans, this is no America... this is about existence.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
My dad once told me "If you argue with an idiot, you are one too." So I'm going to heed his advice, and stop arguing with idiots.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Except I'm not an idiot, but someone simply asking you to prove what you are saying with tangible facts.
Statements from people involved that prove what you are saying is true.
The only idiotic thing about that, is that it's useless, as you will keep running your mouth instead of researching what you've been asked to research.
F33bs 2 years ago
We executed Japanese officers who used waterboarding on our soldiers in WWII.
ehkinoh 2 years ago 3
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What about the people who flew planes in the WTC, did they follow geneva convention, did the guys chopping american heads off follow geneva convention. Don't try and convince me who the bad guys are, I know who they are. He explained that the only ones water-boarded is the highest treat terrorist... why do you want to protect the terrorist.... YEAH I CALLED THEM TERRORISTS.... that's what they are with the name or not.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
You are laughably ignorant about the facts of this case.
So either read up or GTFO, as no one wants to bother with your ridiculous GOP stupidity and fear mongering rhetoric.
F33bs 2 years ago
Then enlightenment me oh smart and intelligent one. You people just listen to people like Palosi... people that will flat out lie and count on the fact that people are too lazy actually check up on it. "My GOP stupidity"? Wow.... that just shows how one track minded you are... I'm an independent... not a Bush lover.... everything is so black and white with you.... I am now beginning to think I'm stupid... stupid for replying.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
"people that will flat out lie and count on the fact that people are too lazy actually check up on it. "
Oh so you did do some research on your claims? Care to link them so I can take a look, or will you continue to post incoherent run-on sentences like a seven year old?
Independent my asshole.
"I am now beginning to think I'm stupid"
Join the club. I've known you were stupid ever since you said "Cheney did something right."
F33bs 2 years ago
I assume you can research it yourself. I don't throw up links. I read for my own interest and move on. I could probably find something you can read in less then 5 minutes. But I'm not going to waist my time. You replied to me, calling me an idiot, and you haven't proven to me yet I was wrong. You can't change my mind, I've been through all that... listening to everyone, and agreeing... I've been a proclaimed Liberal, and now un-proclaimed. I know people like you stand for nothing.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
I believe I can argue anything and everything in my own words, something you can't do... something I used to not be-able to do without reading something first, so I could copy someone's opinion, and not know why I'm doing it. I can argue both sides, but I can only believe one.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Oh please. Don't make judgments about my character when you don't even know me. I can't think of anything more pathetically juvenile.
"You can't change my mind,"
Which is why I'm not even wasting my time getting into a debate about it. You've already made up your mind, you won't look at facts, you refuse to give me sources to your claims, etc.
You're just another boorish troll with nothing interesting to say in the least.
F33bs 2 years ago
Now you're making a coment about my character. You could have me if you tried. Only liberal girls are trolls... they need womens rights because they can't get a good job like the ones that actually take good care of their selves. You must be a closet freak, the way you talk to women also... no good looking women would put up with that shit.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
Ha ha ha! You're unbelievable. You like to throw insults out without even knowing what they mean, or how childish they are.
"You could have me if you tried."
S'cuse? What are you talking about?
"You must be a closet freak, the way you talk to women also"
Puuhhleeaaase. You're hardly womanlike with your insane ranting, and tough-guy talk.
F33bs 2 years ago
Go to "how stuff works" it's all science based... I tried the link on here and it didn't work... I put it in you message box.... look up water-boarding there. There's my PROOF.......Obama and the liberal congress haven't yet proved otherwise. So technically you still have to Prove your case... moron!!!!!!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
I read the whole article, it's just a description of the technique and it's history.
You seem to be at a loss for how an argument functions.
You put forth a premise (in your case: waterboarding is effective at getting good information) and then you refuse to back it up.
And you half-assedly link a simple description of the practice, which doesn't prove that it works or is effective.
F33bs 2 years ago
In fact, your "source" admits:
"Many CIA officials see water boarding as a poor interrogation method because it scares the prisoner so much you can't trust anything he tells you"
It also talks about Michael Mukaseys description of waterboarding as un-Constitutional.
You didn't even read a word of it, and yet you act like it proves your case.
You're a fucking joke.
F33bs 2 years ago
Take a good look at the face of evil, because that asshole cheney is it. They're main talking point is how they're administration kept us safe, and yet the biggest attack in america's history took place while they were in charge....discusting!
Hereticbooks 2 years ago 4
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duvalians1 2 years ago
What's so bad about that? So Obama's big talking point is how he inherited a mess, and can't seem to get shit done. All he knows is to spend money now. Fear an economic collapse , spend now.... think later. Executive order now, think about how to do it right later.... I don't get in my car and start it, and then decide where I will go in it. There's a lot of faith in an unknown plan to close gitmo. Obama's talking point is "last 8 years." He has no idea what he's doing RIGHT NOW!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
You could fill a blimp with all that hot air.
sentinel41 2 years ago
this guy sounds like he is providing his defense platform for a future trial and whats with the applause at the end.
USFgasoline 2 years ago 3
Cheney is a patriot for coming forward and setting the record straight in the face of the shameful politicization of the Gitmo and EIT issues at the expense of our national security by the Obama administration. Obama's flip flops on nat'l security issues demonstrate that it is one thing to pander to your liberal constituents in campaign rhetoric, but quite another to govern. The Bush Gitmo, EIT and military tribunals policies are now being vindicated by the flip-flopping Obama admin.
AdamT1966 2 years ago
It was Cheney that threatened to Bomb the Taliban IF THEY BACKED OUT THERE ENRON deal....we know the rest of the story.
ubuibiok 2 years ago
Please tell us the rest of the story.... I don't get it! Enron collapsed because of sketchy accounting practices.... that is what the ruling was. So are you saying our court system is to stupid to figure things out? Now I feel safe that they will take care of the terrorist..... why don't we just set them free now, so we don't have to pay these stupid people to screw it up. Ha ha ha!
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
YOU SAID IT YOUZEND
classicallady 2 years ago
Dick the Plumber...
eks56 2 years ago
Geez man, you protest too much. He who smelt it dealt it. I smell something and the dogs can sense it too. I think it is fear, but it might be garlic and ginger.
Wisegeorge 2 years ago
Thanks Dick, keep it up and we'll have 8 years of Barack and 8 more of Michelle.
eks56 2 years ago 2
I really wish that Dick Cheney would just disappear.. he can't stop spewing stupid.
Fareslols 2 years ago
Why is he talking?
Who is he talking to?
Can't tell the truth and can't get his lies straight. Jeez.
kuroi44 2 years ago 3
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He's not lying, he's admitting he kept us safe.
Sperogyro 2 years ago
Except for that whole thousands dead on 9/11, asleep at the wheel bit.
oldhatrs25 2 years ago
911911911911911911911911torture911911911911lies
911911911911theyallowed911911911911911911cialies
911911911911911911911911911911areestthisman911
911911911911911warcriminial911911911911911
marniespeaks 2 years ago 3
I couldn't watch all of this. It's painful to see this lying prick up there talking about "national security". We'd be far more secure had they never orchastrated the 9/11 tragedy.
luchamini 2 years ago
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I guess it's less painful to bring the terrorists on over here to America and set them free.
Sperogyro 2 years ago
Set them free? Or put them in our regular prisons as planned? And they are not all terrorists because none of them have been put on trial yet. They are just enemy combatants or whatever the term is that means that we can hold them for as long as we want with no rights and no proof.
luchamini 2 years ago
New prisoner abuse photos have leaked:
telegraph(dot)co(dot)uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/5330481/New-outrage-over-Iraq-prison-abuse-photographs(dot)htm
Eliminate ALL spaces & replace ALL (dot) with .
SubmarinerAndroid 2 years ago
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New abuse cases from the Obama administration. Pirates were shot in the head to save one American. I'd take water boarding any day over a bullet in the head.
Sperogyro 2 years ago
I'm wondering if the guy who gave you a thumbs up because of the word... Prisoner abuse photos... because they trusted that you actually had some.... LINK WAS AN ERROR.... This is how liberal rumors get started.
sarasmiles05 2 years ago
It worked for other people. Your failure is no reflection on me.
SubmarinerAndroid 2 years ago
To quote Jon Stewart, "pardon me, your Dick is showing"
allensbriarpatch 2 years ago 2
well dick, it is easy for you to judge the the amount of morality that this country has lost, because in your case it has gone from none to zero
hossboss96 2 years ago
BRILLIANT HOSSBOSS
classicallady 2 years ago
Yo who gives a fuck about cheney, throw that faggot in jail
Q2IN2Y 2 years ago