Game Theory and R.D. Laing's Dream of Freedom

[ondrtejtrisc]

Is the bearded man at 8:29 Alan Watts?

[paulgallagher3]

This an extract from a documentary by Adam Curtis, who is famed for dishonesty in misleading viewers with his usual brand of ersatz propaganda.

Here, Curtis greatly misrepresents R D Laing solely to fit a preposterous argument. It is the kind of intellectual dishonesty one would expect of a tabloid hack.

[nerdyharry]

difference between laing and that smirking motherfucker @ 3:09: the latter needs a combover to feel comfortable on camera.

[Ignozi]

This is strange.

R. D. Laing's message sounds a whole lot different in his book "The Divided Self" than what is portrayed on here.

It seems to me that the producers of this video wanted to in some way demonize Dr. Laing and even make him the villain.

Is anyone else getting this vibe?

There's more to Laing that this stuff.

[CocteauDalighari]

@Ignozi I concur. I've read several of Laing's books, including "Self," & I sure as heck was never left w/ the impression that he believed the world consisted solely of horrors against which one must arm oneself. & How ever wrong he was on some accounts, I don't think his existential phenomenology view led in any way to or influenced right-wing economic theorists. Some parts of The Trap are better than others, & this ain't one of 'em.

[CocteauDalighari]

What is the music @about 4 min. into the clip? Same music was used in North by Northwest, especially @the end, before the train goes into the tunnel.

[duck24x]

In absolutely ALL situations when people "apply" game theory, they NEVER get beyond the simple "Prisoners' Dilemma" problem, and NEVER apply even THIS extremely simple model to new & original situations, such as ranking choices among how to respond to various combinations of attacks, insults & rewards.

It's truly depressing. Hopefully this guy Laing went beyond regurgitating the same drivel.

[Kirin9]

@duck24x I agree, I think that it's pretty dangerous when people stop thinking for themselves and instead assume that a few "smart people," have it all figure out, but then again, that is what public schooling tries to teach us, we're smart and you're dumb, we have the answers, and you must get them from us (not saying that applied study in a field of personal interest is a bad thing, but I just don't believe that it should be forced, abe lincoln wasn't forced ^_^ haha)

[duck24x]

@Kirin9 Don't blame public schools. I had great public school education in New Jersey: all 12 grades. And same through college & graduate school. I've never seen (in K-12 or college) any teacher who has not tried to get students to think for themselves. (Well, except for one bitch microbiology teacher I had) I've found it's ALWAYS been the students who don't take responsibility for their education.

[OLDCRAZYLADY]

This is an Adam Curtis Documentary ....

[ipublica]

The truth about our society is frightening but there are not many people who have the courage, such as Laing, to question the schizoid split that is inherent in our culture and that goes back to Aristotle and the repression of pleasure under patriarchy. The violence continues in other ways, while there were improvements in the mental health sector. The suppression of the child's emotional and sexual identity is now the primary means to control consumers under the header of 'child protection'.

[maryconlonmaddock]

I believe it is impossible to understand human beings. We fail when we see ourselves as 'scientific'. It is good to try to understand but our comprehension is very limited. At least Laing tried. Most psychiatrists don't even bother. It would be good if we had less 'scientific research' and more tolerance, less hierarchy and more equality, less fraud and more truth.

[CocteauDalighari]

@maryconlonmaddock >>>would be good if we had less 'scientific research'<<<

It was an Am. sociologist named Wm. I. Thomas who said that we do not live scientifically or statistically; we live by inference. We invite friends over not because it's been statistically proven that they won't steal our good silver but because we infer that our friends won't do that. To study people scientifically means we study them quite the opposite of how they live.

[nerdyharry]

@CocteauDalighari excellent comment!

[JUNKYARDOGvideos]

the thing we as human all crave is community, belonging and familiarity.

[GoosedByTheLight]

I agree with you JUNKYARDOG, but if you boil it down completely to it's true essece. We crave Love and acceptance. Whith those two (which are really one) all of our emotional needs are met. I really don't want to come off like a born again Christian or such because they are the ones that I tend to argue with the most, but the ground state of the Universe is God and It embodies the essence of both of these. There is a natural order to the Universe, and all of our needs are met within it.

[No1barney1]

Laing was def onto something. His psychiatry overlaps-philosophy existentialism & environment: EG"Make a man live among wolves long enough & he'll howl like a wolf" -a materialistic concept.

In some situations I've thought -Christ, you'd need to be mad. And interpersonally. EG You're on the receiving end of some shit treatment at the handsof authority where you'd need to be abnormal NOT to give them a shiriking.Yet they resent your challenge & are offended that you are unhappy with them.

[GoosedByTheLight]

What? That's not normal? I howl like a wolf all the time, but only cats usually hear me.

Our definition of madness is defined by many of our insane members, and if they single you out, it shows that you have potential for true sanity. They are possibly offended by your challenges because it questions their authority to classify you as beneath them on the fictitious sanity scale. Without your complacency, they have no power over you so any protest is a threat to their paradigm..

[No1barney1]

Am I complacent though, goosed?

I don't know

and

I don't care

Keep howling man.

[GoosedByTheLight]

Sorry barney,

I didn't mean to imply that you are complacent. The complacent would likely not have posted a comment at all. I was speaking generally and did not mean you personally.

I agree with you at the very least in the fact that I too don't know or care. I believe that too many people are addicted to judging and classifying everything, whether good or bad, right or wrong, sane or nutz, complacent or not. None of us truely know much, and I try not to base my paradigm on opinion.

[francisringer9]

Stilted and simplistic view of Laing. Laing was not a bleak or paranoid thinker. There is, in all of his writing, an optimism and a compassion that is completely missing here. If you're interested, read him, don't watch this crap. There's also the blatant propagandizing (see Laing smiling demonically at 8:00 with the dark music and damning words of his colleague - who could be a complete nut for all we know - can't you just feel how EVIL Laing was - gives me chills). Riefenstahl lives on!!

[K2nsl3r]

Agreed. Adam Curtis (the documentary maker) is truly the michael moore or leni riefenstahl of the liberal "public intellectual" class. While I enjoy his work on the whole, he abuses his powers to no end. He can make anything look the way he wants, just to suit his purposes. Here, he connects Laing to game theory and the cold war on very meager grounds. Even his portrayal of Nash in the documentary is very one-sided. But Curtis, alas, is addicted to simplifying for the sake of a good story.

[elvislayla]

Or the result of one or many failed relationships. Excellent and thought provoking video once again Accelerator, nice one !

[BlondeDisorder]

I think we should plan a camping trip Accelerator.

We can get high and howl at the moon and let our crazy side out! hehehe

[alchemistra]

I don't know about normal and abnormal, but I believe the loss of self-identity and self-autonomy are characteristic of grossly distorted relationships. Many mental disturbances are the outgrowths of relationships that are dysfunctional.