This vid: A bunch of propaganda. Graham Williams was a great writer His era just doesn't look as filmish as past ones. TomBaker&DW was very popular in 1976 & Mary's complaints usually lead to greater viewing figures. In 1980 JNT made the right changes to suit the coming of a new decade (unlike Muppet), Barry Letts was Executive at this time, which is prob. why the stories for that season were so good. The 20th anniversary still remains the best multi-dr/companion/monster adventure of them all.
@LegoDaleks You utterly missed my point about Mary. The point is her complaints to the BBC got Hinchcliffe fired. I like Williams era actually but things began to become dysfunctional behind the scenes then. None of JNT's decisions were good, the show got cancelled, his era featured the worst stories, worst companions and worst Doctors. None of his Doctors are as well remembered as Tom Baker. The Five Doctors is good but only because JNT for once let a good writer like Terrance Dicks write it
@sadako24 There are lots of good 80's stories. U mentioned Caves of Androzani. If U think that Holmes is a good writer then you'd have to admit that TrialTimelord & 2Doctors were good as well. There was nothing wrong with the 6thDr. era, Grade would've happily cancelled DW in 1975. It wasn't JNT's fault. He's the only one who stuck with DW through thick & thin. The cancellation wasn't even announced cuz they knew there would be an uproar
No other Dr. will ever be as well-remembered as the 4th
@LegoDaleks Many said no Dr would ever better the 3rd, but the 4th Dr had enough good stories to. Any Drs after Tom could've done the same with better writing. Alas no. The few good 80s stories were drowned out by the bad and didn't change the show for the better. After Caves, Holmes was never that good again, 2Doctors started well but went downhill, Trial was a mess. Revelation is the only solid 6th Dr story. JNT stuck with the show, but being such a control freak he also cut out all the talent
@sadako24 No, ReTarD & Muppet are what you call control freaks. The 6thDr. could have easily been on par with the 4th had he been able to do his run until HE decided to leave. Pretty harsh criticism of Robert Holmes. Do you honestly think that Holmes' later scripts are worse than the Nu-hu trite we get nowadays? Do you value nonsensical catch-phrases that much? Nu-hu just endlessly contradicts & repeats itself. e.g. Rory dies a bunch of times, there are 2 Amys in Big Bang & 2 other instances etc
@LegoDaleks If Colin stayed he'd still remain disgraced by Twin Dilemma. JNT was as much a control freak as RTD, except things were dysfunctional with his team so he couldn't control everything, occasionally quality writing broke through. RTD's team were all yes-men, so he could make it all done his way. Eccleston hated it and was gone in one season. None of your examples of what you find wrong with Moffat's era are worthy criticisms. There's 2 Amy's in Big Bang- so what? Its a time travel show.
@sadako24 My point about the two Amy's was that they used it THREE times in under 12 months! Is Tennant disgraced by Christmas Invasion & End of Time? (prob. cuz all his ep's were sh!t, but End of Time was sh!t even for Nu-hu standards) Is Matt disgraced by 11th Hour? FYI JNT didn't write the majority of the adventures. His script editors commissioned scripts, ReTarD & Muppet would never hear of that.
Twin Dilemma is an ingenious masterpiece when compared to Rose, Christmas Invasion & 11th Hour.
@LegoDaleks 11th Hour's perfect, Rose is ok, Xmas Invasion's dull, but of those only End of Time disgraced the Doctor and even then he didn't strangle his companion. Viewers already liked Tennant too much for it to ruin him, Colin was ruined from the start. He'd never be a public favourite after Twin Dilemma. The show once had such sci-fi credibility Christopher Priest wanted to write it but JNT cut him out- it'd be like if Moffat cut out Gaiman. Eric Saward had to fight for Holmes to be let on
@sadako24 Gayman isnt cutout to write DW, so it would've been better if he had "cut him out".11thHour is so dull I felt like I unwatched something afterwards. I even left the room to eat a sandwich & came back just to hear more ridiculously sh!t dialogue like: "Who da man" & "Get a girlfriend Jeff" & "fishy custard" - those lines belong in a cartoon for CBBC
6 is more like the 1st than any of the others. There's nothing wrong with trying to strangle Peri, U must B the only 1 who thinks otherwise
@LegoDaleks there's nothing wrong with the Doctor trying to choke the life out of an innocent girl? Who in their right mind would think a cheap shock tactic like that would endear the public to the Doctor? William Hartnel's Doctor was what he was. Colin's Doctor was written as a cheap, contrived imitation. Like Davison before him, he only worked when written against the unpleasant, cowardly character brief that JNT gave him- i.e. Revelation of the Daleks.
@sadako24 The attempted strangulation is ok as long as it happens right after regenerated. He's not quite himself right after he regenerates, so he can behave in many ways. That was just a new & different way for him to behave. He doesn't actually kill her. The scene could put U in mind of the scene in Unearthly Child when the Dr tries to finish off a helpless wounded man with a stone. And as we all know, even after that the the 1st Dr. was still endeared by the public, so 6 isn't cheap at all.
@sadako24 (cont'.)'Rose' is about Rose & the invasion comes 2nd. They never even say Auton.On the 1 hand U say that choosing Holmes for 80's stories is good, but on the other hand U don't even like the majority of the few 80's stories he did. U contradict Urself just to have a go at JNT
JNT got rid of the sonic so that writers could use their brains &have the Dr use his. In 11thHour Muppet has TARDIS randomly spew out an endlessly functional magic wand. There's no argument, JNT is clearly better
@LegoDaleks 'They never even say Auton'- so what? Big deal? It's a pilot, of course the focus is on the companion character seeing Doctor Who adventures for the 1st time. I'd say Holmes' weaker 80's stories were down to his health deteriorating, interference in his stories, and feeling resented & bitter about JNT being unwelcoming and ruining the show. So JNT should've recruited him sooner, but I guess we were lucky Eric Saward fought to have him included at all, despite JNT not wanting him on.
@sadako24 He wouldn't have attempted writing 2Doctors & Trial if his health was that bad that soon & for that long. The pilot is supposed to introduce the programme, not some simple-minded 19 year old girl. It's not coronation street, it's Doctor Who. Doctor Who is about monsters & or travel. Coronation Street is about low-lives. Believe it or not there's a difference between DW & the common soap opera. If it's an adventure about the Autons you'd expect them to actually at least say Auton.
@LegoDaleks That just proves Holmes should've been recruited sooner. The BBC demanded rewrites on Trial so Holmes had a greater workload (didn't help that JNT rejected a good script from PJ Hammond, needlessly making the difficulty of completing the season worse). He fell ill whilst writing the finale. At one of Eric Saward's many script meetings with him Holmes forgot who he was. He died with the finale unfinished, when Eric pieced something together from his notes JNT rejected it, so Eric quit
@sadako24 Of course JNT rejected it. Eric Saward had planned an ending to DW with Holmes. JNT as a producer would have to be mad to agree to that. had he agreed though then I can say without a doubt that you would blame JNT for the ending DW & use that to criticise him further.
Holmes wasn't always right & JNT wasn't always wrong. For instance Holmes thought that the Five Doctors was a ludicrous idea, but the finished product works very well & it wouldn't have been as good had Holmes written it
@LegoDaleks "JNT as a producer would have to be mad to agree to that." It was the only script they had from the mastermind of the whole season and they were facing production deadlines. They're damn lucky Pip and Jane Baker produced a quick substitute (as if JNT liked making himself look like the martyr/miracle worker struggling against all the problems he caused in the first place). And it was JNT's idea in the first place to kill Peri, so he'd been all for bleak endings, so why the turnaround?
@sadako24 What R U on about now? Saward & Holmes planned an ENDING to the SERIES. Peri doesn't get killed off & even if she did that still wouldn't be the end of the DW. Holmes hadn't produced a finished script, Saward had. JNT just wanted him to change the ending so that it didn't mean the end of DW. That was the last straw for Saward who quite & didn't allow JNT to use any of the material he produced. JNT didn't cause any problems in the 1st place, or R U now going to claim he killed Holmes?
@LegoDaleks JNT caused all the problems in the first place. Doctor Who had been accumulating writing talent that understood the show and its hero, for nearly 20 years. JNT took over and got rid of nearly all the old guard of writers, and cut out other high profile writers who wanted to contribute. It should've been *impossible* for the show to suffer a creative drought. JNT made it inevitable. The 6th Dr's character journey was based on ruining the character and then promising to 'fix' him later
@sadako24 That's not really true. The production team always tried to get new writers in for variety. Even the most prolific DW writers' scripts had to be heavily script edited sometimes. I believe Graham Williams actually writes a letter of apology to the BBC, apologising for re-using some of the same old writers.
6 isn't based on being ruined, just like the 1st dr isn't. 6 has a good excuse for behaving oddly at first - HE JUST REGENERATED!
@LegoDaleks And yet Robert Holmes and Terrance Dicks had been writing for the show from the late 60's to the late 70's so the BBC can't have had that much of a problem with keeping the old guard. Only JNT did. 6 is based on being ruined. He's made unlikeable with the purpose that it will be a 'big deal' when he develops into someone likeable again.
"6 has a good excuse for behaving oddly at first - HE JUST REGENERATED!"
That's funny- he's regenerated 5 times before and never strangled anyone.
@sadako24 R U just pretending to be thick? How is attempted strangulation any worse than what the 1st Dr did in his 1st adventure? 6 behaved oddly just like they all do but in a unique way. But U obviously hate originality, which must be why U think so highly of Muppet's trite.
There's nothing wrong with hiring new writers for variety. Dicks tried to get his vampire DW commissioned. But he was rejected by Hinchcliff&Williams JNT eventually commissioned it. That sort of contradicts Ur statement
@LegoDaleks "6 behaved oddly just like they all do but in a unique way."
Gotta love you JNT apologists 'it was like the 1st Doctor..& it was unique'
Yeah. Uniquely awful and moronic!
Williams didn't reject State of Decay, the BBC did- they were doing a Vampire drama and didn't want them to clash. JNT commisioned State of Decay only because he was stuck for scripts. It proves old writers could've been sought out, if JNT had allowed it.
I wouldn't ask Dicks his opinion on JNT if I were you
@LegoDaleks Nah, An Unearthly Child shits on Twin Dilemma. It features a Doctor with actual genuine motivations and a quick thinking mind rather than acting upon contrived pupeteered actions for the sake of cheap shock tactics. In all the ways that JNT took the once strong-willed, free-spirited hero and turned him into a puppet.
@sadako24 'puppet', is completely unfounded. There's nothing wrong with him behaving out of sorts after he regenerated, because he always does that. The 1st Dr just seems like he is a cold calculating murdering jerk and his actions aren't really explained. Peri shows the Dr. himself which makes him stop, which is quite clever really.
Are you saying you didn't find the 1st dr's actions shocking?
A shock tactic would be if he kissed her, which is something they would & have used in Nuhu
@sadako24 It's cool that he stops after seeing his reflection in the mirror. It's like he comes back to his senses. So, clever on the writer's part. A hero, like the Dr, doesn't go around killing the weak. It's sort of a primitive thing to do. But the Dr. doesn't do primitive things because he is an old wise genius, but not in the way that the Master is. So it isn't really explained. The 1st dr scene was just as shocking as the 6th dr's scene.
@LegoDaleks "It's cool that he stops after seeing his reflection in the mirror. It's like he comes back to his senses. So, clever on the writer's part. A hero, like the Dr, doesn't go around killing the weak. It's sort of a primitive thing to do."
It might have been justified if the story as a whole was about that thin line between civilisation and barbarity in a greater sense (like An Unearthly Child really). Instead the scene seems to exist for its own sensationalist sake.
@sadako24 No, THE DR still isn't justified for doing that. The Dr isn't supposed to be that primitive-minded. Maybe one of the 20thcent. humans could, who would normally think how much better they R than the cave men. That might have been a lot better.
1 was behaving like himself, whereas 6 was out of sorts. The Dr always needs to behave odd after regenerating, instead of 6 doing what the majority of them do -act silly, he acts disturbed & paranoid - better than just acting silly again.
@LegoDaleks "No, THE DR still isn't justified for doing that. The Dr isn't supposed to be that primitive-minded." I didn't mean *he* was justified, I meant doing a story about taking him in that direction would have been justified.
@sadako24 The cliffhanger it has now wasn't the end of DW, making it less sh!t than the one Saward planned. It wasn't just supposed to look inescapable, it was meant to actually be inescapable & that ending wouldn't have lead well into the next season.
@LegoDaleks "that ending wouldn't have lead well into the next season." yeah it would. The point would be that eventually the Doctor would emerge triumphant from the Time Vent he and the Valeyard had fallen into, with some dramatic ambiguity about whether he had merged with his evil future self in the process.
@sadako24 The two of them were supposed to be fighting it out for all eternity. How does: 'the dr coming out of the time vent' make for a good season opener? Why would you say that that leads in well? It doesn't. It's just the continuation of the old story/season, that isn't a very good beginning to a new season at all.
Let me put it in perspective for you:
It would be like 2006 Nu-hu beginning with more Bad Wolf stuff on satellite 5 left over from last season. Anti-climactic.
@LegoDaleks On the subject of Rose as a pilot. I'll meet you halfway and say that Terrance Dicks' Seven Keys To Doomsday script would have been a far better pilot for the new show.
@LegoDaleks "JNT got rid of the sonic so that writers could use their brains." but the writers and 5th Dr didn't use their brains. They had the Dr do nothing and let everyone die, even when a load of cannisters to kill the invaders and save the day were at his feet all along (Warriors of the Deep, Resurrection of the Daleks), or run away (Mawdryn Undead) I've never seen a more impotent Doctor. 11th hour has the Dr win without the sonic. That's the whole point. You weren't paying attention
@sadako24 No, YOU weren't paying attention. The Nu-dr constantly uses his magic wand to solve all of his problems. e.g. All his foes put there brains together & come up with putting him in a box, which is then the cliffhanger (only 3 cliffhangers a season), next ep. he gets out using his wang - the epitome of lame! He's got no brains & neither have the writers. Why doesn't he just get the TARDIS to spew a bunch more wands that he can then hand out to UNIT & then just bugger off?
@sadako24 That's right he just stands on a roof top shouting at the top of his voice...again. But who cares about that? What about the finale? All his foes come together, all their brains&technology has them come up with the sh!test plan ever & then he just escapes using his wang. And that was the only cliffhanger without a NextTimeTrailer, ALL his baddies, expectations were higher than ever. JNT would've never commissioned that sh!t. But Muppet has no filter, he just commissions his own sh!t
@sadako24 That still doesn't disprove what I said. Big Bang was crap, the kind of crap that can only be commissioned by the person who "wrote" it. none of us know what "paradise 5" would have been like. Trial of a Timelord has great stories anyway.
@LegoDaleks I've actually listened to Big Finish's adaptation of Paradise 5, and can safely say it shits on Terror of the Vervoids and most of JNT's stories from a great height. Why it was rejected by JNT defies all cognitive reasoning.
@sadako24 But it makes all the sense in the world that it would never be commissioned by Muppet, cuz he makes like ReTarD & only commissions scripts that are even worse than his own.
I'll have to take Ur word on paradise5 being good, but all the Big Finish stuff I listened to was almost as garbagey as Nuhu. Had paradise5 already been script edited by Eric Saward? I could see how it could be good in that case.
@LegoDaleks hate to break it to you but PJ Hammond has already been commisioned twice by RTD on Torchwood and wrote two of its better stories. If you think Big Finish is garbage then you just don't know good quality writing.
@sadako24 Torchwood hasn't got 1 good story. So PJ Hammond has, like Chibnall, failed miserably. Big Finish hires writers like Rob Sherman, Nick Briggs & Marc Platt - not the best, not by a long shot. Have you listened to Jubilee? It's fanfic worthy. Jubilee is like Dalek - lacking in plot & too much nonsensical, ill-fitting over-emotional, slow-paced dialogue.
@LegoDaleks Rubbish! Rob Shearman and Nick Briggs are great writers with strong understanding of the show. I've heard Jubilee and you must've missed the point of it. It's about the relationship between tyrant & oppressed, consumerism as aversion therapy for an anxiety culture, how abstract moral tyranny renders personal responsibiity void, how lessons about Nazism have become a distraction from contemporary atrocities. A bit more sophisticated than the mindless shooting of Warriors of the Deep
@sadako24 All the Dalek dialogue doesn't fit the Daleks. Rob Sherman wrote 'Dalek' - it was about an emo Dalek, with all its depression it commits suicide. And you say that is written by someone who understands Doctor Who? Are you completely clueless?
There was no MINDLESS shooting in Warriors of the Deep. At least an all powerful Dalek doesn't just appear out of nowhere making the Dr less rational than his companions and then committing suicide. A Dalek shooting mindlessly would make more sense
@LegoDaleks The whole point was the Dalek had lost the war, was completely alone and without any purpose in function, and had gone insane. That much should have been obvious even to you.
Warriors of the Deep was completely mindless and pointless. None of the violence had any effect on the Doctor who delusionally insisted the massacre of humans wasn't happening and insisted that the genocidal Silurians weren't aggressors and were actually splendid chaps. So none of it had any point at all.
@sadako24 The Dalek just happened to be on earth, then the humans just happened to be able to capture it without touching it. It was that weak & then for no reason the Dalek becomes all powerful after Rose touches it. Rob Sherman clearly hasn't got a clue about how to write DW.
U can try & re-write Sherman's rubbish all U want, but according to the ep the Dalek hadn't gone insane.
The Dr said that the Silurians were an intelligent race who has as much right to survive & live on earth as humans
@sadako24 You just gave more evidence for my argument. He couldn't bring himself to destroy the Daleks & he never was chummy with them either, but they are a lot worse than the Silurians. The Silurians don't want to go around conquering other worlds, they just want there own back. Human beings are far worse than Silurians & he acts chummy with them. Just like the humans nuke each other the Silurians have the same right as the humans since it's their planet too.
@LegoDaleks "He couldn't bring himself to destroy the Daleks" Yes he could. He changed his mind & went back to destroy the incubator room, & told Bettan to attack the bunker. He's not a pacifist lunatic like in Warriors of the Deep
"Human beings are far worse than Silurians & he acts chummy with them. Just like the humans nuke each other the Silurians have the same right as the humans" You can't have it both ways. You can't condemn man's terrible deeds, then say Silurians have the right to kill
@sadako24 He doesn't regret that he didn't destroy the Daleks - listen to his speech at the end of Genesis.
Read my comment again, cuz I didn't condemn man. The fact is Man has done terrible things worse things than the Silurians have, but the Dr. is still "chummy" with them. Remember that the Dr is an alien & relates to them all equally.
The Silurians have the same rights as the humans, as they come from earth. Comprende?
They wanted to destroy the human race in their 1st adventure as well.
@LegoDaleks "He doesn't regret that he didn't destroy the Daleks - listen to his speech at the end of Genesis." He's taking what consolation he can from his failure. If the appeaser Doctor of Warriors of the Deep was in Genesis, he'd have let the Daleks keep the tape recording of their future defeats out of pity for them, and he'd have stopped Bettan blowing the bunker and thus got all the Thals killed.
@sadako24 Doesn't Sarah say: "we failed, didn't we?" (or sth. like that) but the Dr answers: "Not really."
"Out of their evil must come something good."&"There should have been another way" These lines make sense & answer Ur questions.
Not all the Thals R killed, otherwise they wouldn't return in subsequent stories. TheDaleks R entombed when the Dr. leaves, which gives the Thals plenty of time to escape death.
Daleks want to conquer other worlds,the Silurians just want to live on there own world
@LegoDaleks " "Out of their evil must come something good."&"There should have been another way" These lines make sense & answer Ur questions."
No, "There should have been another way" is just a cheap and hollow attempt to pretend the preventable, and senseless deaths of the story were meaningful. Again it's JNT's martyr-complex being forced on the Doctor so that he lets terrible things happen just so he can look remorseful about it afterwards. But fandom was fooled into thinking it was iconic
@sadako24 The 3rd Dr could have easily said the same line at the end of Doctor Who & The Silurians. The deaths were senseless & not sacrificial or meaningful hence "there should have been another way" -- meaning also that instead of just one side destroying the other there should have been a way to prevent the blood shed & live in peace. It's a lesson to show the evils that humans are capable of - we see the Dr's point of view. Human beings were the real bad guys in warriors of the Deep.
@LegoDaleks "there should have been a way to prevent the blood shed"
He could've used Hexacromite to destroy the Sea Devil's first wave once they started killing people. The rest would retreat, the base saved. But the story needed him to fail
"we see the Dr's point of view."
Even any prior Doctor would be incapable of seeing the 5th Doctor's warped point of view.
"Human beings were the real bad guys."
What kind of bad guys would take a bullet and sacrifice themselves to protect the Doctor?
@sadako24 They didn't find out about the hexacrite until later. Do keep up. The humans were the bad guys because they had all those dangerous weapons that were primed & ready to destroy civilisation. So as a whole, as a group they are the bad guy, but of course there are always individuals who will sacrifice their lives to save others.
The Dr is the one who saves the earth in the end, so the other Dr's would have no problem with that or with the fact that he tried to prevent bloodshed.
@LegoDaleks No, Hexacromite's the first thing the Doctor finds in part 1. Don't make excuses that he didn't know the solution was there when he clearly did.
"The Dr is the one who saves the earth in the end, so the other Dr's would have no problem with that
They'd see him as another traitor to a genocidal war-like enemy, and despised him just like he did the Controller in Day of the Daleks.
"or with the fact that he tried to prevent bloodshed."
@sadako24 In part1, 5 & his companions R attacked by humans not Eocenes, so of course 5's not going to start out thinking of ways to kill Eocenes. FYI the Dr always tries the peaceful solution to a problem & only uses violence as a last resort. Should I say it again or have U grasped it this time?
Controller in DayotDaleks was a hypocrite, abusing his own people. U cn't compare them.
Humans R genocidal war-like beings. But 5 knows that the Eocenes & humans R more than just murderous aggressors.
@LegoDaleks "Controller in DayotDaleks was a hypocrite, abusing his own people. U cn't compare them"
Yes I can.The controller thought the enemy could be reasonable, even when the story's ending proved otherwise. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller thought co-operation through surrender was the way. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller tried to outlaw the humans from any resistance or fighting back. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller protested that he was trying to save lives. So did etc..
@sadako24 The Daleks had invaded earth a long time ago & were unreasonable for many years.
The humans & Eocenes are BOTH unreasonable. The humans were the helpless innocent victims of the Daleks. The Daleks didn't need to go to earth & the humans weren't as much the aggressors to the Daleks as they were to the Eocenes & if you think they were then they had the right to be anyway, cuz the Daleks are invaders from another planet. So you really can't compare the two.
@sadako24 (continued) It is impossible for Daleks & humans to co-exist peacefully, the Dr likes to think that it isn't impossible for human & Eocene coexistence, since they both have equal right to the planet. He isn't wrong for being fair on both species that BOTH have the right to the planet. He may have let humans die but he also let Eocenes die.
@LegoDaleks His aims for 'peace' are contradicted by the fact that he lets the most belligerent and warmongering Silurians do what they want. Usually when the Doctor wants peace, he helps to get rid of the tyrant, not hand victory to them.
@sadako24 According to you he DID hand victory to the tyrant one the end - the humans. See the end of Warriors of the Deep - he doesn't let them do what they want.
@sadako24 One side wasn't better than the other -duh, that was the whole point. One side just wanted to destroy the other. But of course humans are sort of worse than the Eocenes cuz they made the weapons to kill their own kind. So the humans want to destroy each other & the Eocenes. I think that is just a little more evil than what the Eocenes had planned. At least the Silurians & Sea Devils could get along & not want to kill one another. Look at the facts the Humans R just as bad if not worse.
@LegoDaleks "At least the Silurians & Sea Devils could get along & not want to kill one another."
You clearly haven't seen the first Silurian story properly. If you did you'd remember that scene where the old Silurian leader wanted peace, and so they young Silurian leader killed him and took over. None of your assertions about Silurian nobility fit what's on screen.
@sadako24 One Silurian killing another Silurian you cannot compare to the "racial purity" the Nazis believed in. You have good, bad, reasonable & unreasonable Silurians as well as humans. But the Eocenes never wanted to nuke one another & proved that they could work peacefully with one another, this fact proves that they are nobler than humans at least.
@LegoDaleks "Not all the Thals R killed, otherwise they wouldn't return in subsequent stories. TheDaleks R entombed when the Dr. leaves, which gives the Thals plenty of time to escape death."
Yes, and all because the Doctor was characterised properly, unlike in Warriors of the Deep where he'd have gotten them all killed by forbidding them to fight back against the Daleks.
@sadako24 U're tiring. The Daleks are evil & want to conquer the UNIVERSE. The Silurians & humans want to wipe each other out, but the Dr. wants them to live in harmony. Understand now please.
@LegoDaleks "Remember that the Dr is an alien & relates to them all equally" No he places the Silurians lives over the humans they're killing (even when one woman takes a bullet for him). There's no rationale behind his judgement in Warriors that suits the character's common sense. It wasn't remotely thought out and contradicts everything of the Doctor
"They wanted to destroy the human race in their 1st adventure as well"
Only some did and the Doctor wasn't interested in saving those Silurians
@sadako24 He WAS interested in saving THOSE Silurians. The Brig killed a bunch of them & the Navy killed a bunch of them as well. Warriors of the Deep was pay-back time. U seem to be forgetting that all together there are far more Sea Devils & Silurians that are killed by humans than vice versa.
@LegoDaleks "He WAS interested in saving THOSE Silurians." He wasn't. When the Brig shot dead the young leader Silurian in the caves (the one determined to wipe out man), the Doctor actually 'thanked' him. He did nothing to try and treat the shot Silurian.
"the Navy killed a bunch of them" In retaliation for their unprovoked destruction of passing ships. In the end the Dr destroyed the Sea Devil base himself so he'd already decided whose side he was on. Warriors of the Deep contradicts that.
@sadako24 He's not on any one's side. And if he was on the humans side in the past then it makes perfect sense that after the greater number of casualties on the Eocenes caused by the humans, the Dr. might pity the Eocenes more than the humans. In that case his behaviour in Warriors of the Deep makes perfect sense. At least he doesn't just unrealistically disable all their guns with his magic wand & start shouting nonsense.
The Master & the humans were the real bad guys in The Sea Devils.
@LegoDaleks No. Once The Sea Devils saw the Doctor make that transition from being on the Sea Devils's side to finally deciding to choose and save the humans, you can't pretend that didn't happen and that he's back on the Silurians/Sea Devils side. Warriors of the Deep doesn't even try to give him a decent reason to be on their side. It just has him become delusional and insist they're the noble victims even whilst they're killing people without provocation.
@sadako24 Some facts: They R noble (depending on Ur definition of noble, but they R nobler than the humans) & they R victims (or have been many times in the past).
It would not make any sense for him to be completely on one side or the other (which he isn't) & it would make even less sense if he were only on the humans' side. Warriors is a lot better & more sensical the way it is than if, what you suggest, 5 were on the humans side & would rule out a peaceful solution & grab a gun & shoot them.
@LegoDaleks "Some facts: They R noble (depending on Ur definition of noble, but they R nobler than the humans)"
Sounds like your definition of 'noble' would favour the Nazis- after all it's their planet too and they were victims of World War 1. The only reason you think they're noble is just because the Doctor says so. Nothing onscreen in that story makes them seem remotely noble. Would it make sense if the Doctor in Victory of the Daleks told Churchill to surrender and make peace with Hitler?
@sadako24 Uuuh, the Nazi's were killing people inside & outside their own country. they could have just happily lived in Germany which is their home. The Eocene's home is earth. Why do I constantly have to state the obvious?
FYI the Dr encountered them in the past so he's got all the proof he needs that they are noble.
If 11 had said that to Churchill, it would have made just as little sense as all his other nonsensical lines in that sad-excuse for a script.
@LegoDaleks "Nazi's were killing people inside & outside their own country. they could have just happily lived in Germany which is their home. The Eocene's home is earth"
So it's ok for Nazis to commit genocide as long as its within Germany?
"Why do I constantly have to state the obvious?"
Because you're desperately defending utter garbage
"the Dr encountered them in the past so he's got all the proof he needs that they are noble"
So if the Dr's met noble humans it proves Nazis were noble?
@sadako24 Stop trying to misunderstand. I said that killing people inside or outside of a nation is BAD! Do I have to spell-out every detail for U? The Eocenes, unlike the humans, weren't killing each other, so stop trying to compare them with the Nazis
Ur making less sense now: I have to state the obvious cuz I'm defending garbage? Do U think before U write this stuff?
@LegoDaleks "I said that killing people inside or outside of a nation is BAD!"
Which blatantly contradicts your point that the Silurians had the right to destroy the humans because it's their home. If the Silurians are allowed to, then so are the Nazis. Silurians were racists- they hated all humans and wanted to wipe them out- no distinction between army or civilians. The Nazis' excuses were no different to the Silurians. Don't pretend one was more justified than the other.
@sadako24 Why are you now under the impression that I said that the Eocenes are good guys. They are bad guys, but not as bad as the humans.
For some reason you think that Eocenes & humans are the same species.
A little education: Eocenes killing humans is as racist as when humans exterminate pests/vermin. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Do you even know the definition of racism? If someone hates cockroaches does that make them racist? Well? Does it? Please tell me you at least realise THAT error you made?
@sadako24 Ahem, you've missed the point & have even changed the subject. A human being hating vermin & wanting to kill cockroaches is not racist. THAT's what I said. Silurians hating humans is in no way racist. Should I write it AGAIN?
Please read carefully & then think a second or two before you write such ignorant replies.
@sadako24 Daleks are racist, they are based on the Nazis. But the Daleks killing humans isn't racist. Just like Silurians hating & killling humans isn't racist either.
@LegoDaleks Well I got the impression you thought the Eocenes were the good guys because you kept calling them 'noble', and you consider the humans the 'bad guys' for killing the Eocenes in Warriors of the Deep, even though the humans only do so in self-defence against an aggressor determined to wipe them out. Which suggested strongly that you were on the Silurians side all the way.
@LegoDaleks "The Eocenes aren't completely bad, just like the humans aren't. I have given evidence that the humans behave/behaved worse than them."
No. There's no examples of Silurians/Sea Devils taking a bullet/sacrificing themselves to save the Doctor. But some of the humans did. So the humans were more noble. If they wanted a story where Silurians genuinely were noble JNT should have brought in a decent writer like Terrance Dicks who actually understood how to convey that. It was that easy.
@sadako24 I'm assuming U've seen & like Doctor Who & The Silurians & The Sea Devils. They never took bullets for him in those adventures either. Didn't U consider them noble in those?
Anyway, I've already given plenty of evidence that shows that on a whole the humans R worse than the Eocenes. So if humans could in some cases be called "noble" then so can the Eocenes. Perhaps not wanting to kill one another could be seen as noble or at least nobler than humans who are always killing each other
@LegoDaleks Cybermen dont tend to kill each other, nor Sontarans. Does that make them noble? Would the Dr claim they're a better species?
"Doctor Who & The Silurians & The Sea Devils. They never took bullets for him in those adventures either. Didn't U consider them noble in those?"
I did, because some of them were willing to negotiate peace with the Dr. There's no sign of that in Warriors of the Deep, therefore the Dr had no business claiming a peaceful solution was possible via appeasement.
@sadako24 The thing is he already knows them fro the previous two adventures. Therefore he doesn't need a new sign of that. The Sontarans are sort of racial purists like the Daleks & the Cybermen are all uniform & see all other lifeforms as being irrelevant except for Cyber conversion. But both groups of Eocenes work together & in the past they considered peaceful existence with the humans.
Yes it would have been better if Warriors of the Deep had been longer like the others to fit more story in
@LegoDaleks "he already knows them fro the previous two adventures. Therefore he doesn't need a new sign of that"
If they're killing people he can't pretend they're not or harp on of how noble they *used to be* as if it still applies. He needs proof that still applies as do the viewers and the story gives none. A 6-parter might've had more depth/plausibility but the early Hexacromite reveal would still ruin it.I'd say they shouldn't of done the story at all- let the Pertwee classics stand alone
@sadako24 Your harsh criticism of JNT is weird to me, especially since you actually like Muppet's trite - now there are some "stories" that should have never been done. Series 5 & 6. Girl in the Fireplace should have never been commissioned. Empty Child & Blink should have been script edited & the Library ones should have been very heavily script edited.
Blink should have stood alone without that Time of Angels rubbish. It was like series 5 had been "written" by ReTarD.
@LegoDaleks The JNT era for me had enough bad work to form a corrosive critical mass to ruin not only the few good JNT stories but the whole show, even its golden years. Once the Doctor is shown as that pathetic and impotent as in Warriors, destroying the prior 20 years of building him as a capable hero, nothing can ever wash that away. I often think it'd be better if the show had ended on Logopolis with its dignity intact, so the likes of TimeFlight or Warriors never exist to disgrace the canon
@sadako24 U R wrong 2005-presnent is a disgrace to the canon. It's about the Dr being in love with a 19 y. o. simpleton, in Girl in the Fireplace he is all of a sudden not in love with her but with some french woman. This not only makes Nu-hu an untrue stupid continuation of DW but it even contradicts what Nu-hu established. ReTarD commissioning Girl in the Fireplace means he's thick
Nuhu is about shocks. Muppet said so himself. His ep's Rn't supposed to have longevity. Nuhu is an expensive soap
@sadako24 (coninued) There's not 1good thing about Victory. It tries as hard as it can to make the Daleks unscary. Churchill phones the Dr for no reason. The Daleks are fighting on the British side even though them fighting on the German's side would have been such an obviously better story. There are 3 random scenes of some nationalist making faces, putting up flags & shouting"do Ur worst Hitler". The Daleks are fooled by a jammy dodger.
@sadako24 Cont'd) They do the exact same thing as in Manhatten: The Daleks stand around a great bog device from which their new (f*cking ugly) design is to come out, instead of just exterminating the Dr. At least in Manhatten they killed the ugly American Dalek. In Victory the Teletubbies are here to stay as the most evil race in the universe.
It has the dr behaving like a retarded child when he starts bashing them whilst REPEATEDLY SHOUTING pointless facts: I AM THE DR & U R THE DALEKS ! Repeat
@sadako24 (cont'd) it's obviously wacky irrational behaviour & dialogue like that that is the worst thing about Nu-hu. How is any of that criticism nitpicky? There's nothing good about Victory of the Daleks. If it were good overall then who would care over minor glitches like the Dr saying that the Daleks are the first terrors he had ever encountered.
Amy's feelings defused a bomb. What kind of ridiculous sad-excuse for sci-fi is that crap?
@sadako24 And you DO realise that the Daleks threatening to destroy 1940's Earth totally contradicts what the Dr said about them (a year earlier) in Waters of Mars, right? There's much much much too little continuity in Nu-hu. & there's no excuse for lack of continuity in this day & age where we have the internet & DVD's & the whole series is written by just 1 & 1/2 men. No excuse! It's sub-standard tripe & it's more like Harry Potter than like DW. Twilight is to Dracula, what Nu-hu is to DW
@LegoDaleks I don't get your issues with Moffat. I kinda get your point on the easy get-out of Big Bang, but mostly your complaints are really trivial stuff and doesn't matter. A joke about the Tardis you disliked,that the Autons aren't named.Nothing that makes the story fundamentally flawed or unworkable like JNTs worst were. The Angels were still a threat and worth revisits especially if Moffat wrote them. The Silurians had had their proper tragic ending. There was no reason to bring them back
@sadako24 The Angels stories could have been written by any1. It was like someone else wrote them who had never seen Blink. That's how many errors there were. To name a few: Angels break necks instead of eating time, they want U to look in their eyes even though they previously always covered them (hence "weeping"), their images come to life (but images of them didn't in Blink) they are all of a sudden evil beings that want to take over, they are defeated EXACTLY like the Daleks were in Doomsday
@LegoDaleks "It was like someone else wrote them who had never seen Blink. That's how many errors there were." I don't mind that they changed the rules. We didn't learn everything about the Angels in Blink, and they're clearly intelligent, so I don't see it as errors if they've learned to do things differently. Drama requires upping the stakes. If they remained the same as you wanted the stakes wouldn't have been raised and we would have just gotten a story no different to Blink.
@sadako24 If you're goig to write a whole new monster with entirely different powers & motives. Why just do a different alien instead of trying to fit the Angels in. The Weeping Angel's goal was never for people to look in their eyes. Muppet just made that up later, anyone can see that. Why didn't they mess with the heads of Sparrow & Nightingale after they had been staring them in the eyes? Time of Angels has too many plot holes & even manages to put even more plot holes in Blink as well.
@sadako24 (continued) The absolute worst thing about Nu-hu is what the regulars are given to do & say. They have the most dumbed-down, shallow, immature, teenager dialogue. Like the opening of Vampires in Venice (the dialogue is atrocious) "yours is bigger than mine" "let's not go there" those lines belong on a cartoon on CBBC not DW. "Who da man" "Get a girlfriend Jeff" "Geronimo" "Don't diss the sonic"-17 year old teenagers from the 21st century say that NOT 900 year old timelords.
@sadako24 (cont'd) could have still been good. When I first saw Warriors & they talked about the negative effects of the substance on Marine life I thought that the Eocenes would attack the humans cuz the humans were poisoning their living environment with the stuff. The story, the way it is, isn't that bad, of course there is room for correction. The majority of Muppet's stuff is beyond correction. It should just all be scrapped, even some of ReTarD's material had more potential than Muppet's
@LegoDaleks The hexacromite's an easy getout that the Doctor is forced by contrived writing to ignore. Yes violence should be a last resort but if he knows how he can end the crisis anytime, but does nothing instead and lets everyone die, then its pointless, worthless trash. It's irredemable. A failure on every level. It wants to show harsh reality of war and man's evil, but no-one's actions are believable or sensible, or cohere to events. It wants to homage the show's past, but it disgraces it.
@sadako24 I think it's totally realistic that the Dr would not have come up with using the hexocromite. His mind doesn't work that way. He would never be trying to think of ways to destroy the Eocenes. When the substance is revealed early on the focus was more on what kind of an age they have arrived in & what has become of the human race. Warriors isn't as good as the other 2 adventures but I don't think it's worthless, pointless trash.
It could have been a lot worse, just look at Hungry Earth
@LegoDaleks "His mind doesn't work that way. He would never be trying to think of ways to destroy the Eocenes." even though he did *exactly* that in the end of The Sea Devils. Not to mention him destroying all the Ice Warriors in Seeds of Death. Warriors is dependent on his mind not working at all.
"It could have been a lot worse, just look at Hungry Earth"
That was bad, but at least the Doctor did and achieved something in it, and it didn't force half as many false motives onto him
@sadako24 He did *exactly* that in the end of Warriors as well as the Sea Devils. When it happened in the Sea Devils it was great right? But when pretty much the same thing happens in Warriors it was pointless & crap right? Call that logic?
Well I'm sure if 5 had had a magic wand which he could use to disable all their weapons he would have used it & that would have been a happy ending. EVERYBODY LIVES! Right? You're becoming pathetic.
Can't you take a little more time on these responses?
@LegoDaleks "When it happened in the Sea Devils it was great right? But when pretty much the same thing happens in Warriors it was pointless & crap right?"
In Sea Devils there was a lost chance at peace that made it tragic. Warriors had nothing to say.
"if 5 had had a magic wand which he could use to disable all their weapons he would have used it & that would have been a happy ending."
The hexacromite *was* a magic wand. A convenient abundant fix-all, but 5 was too stupid to use it
@sadako24 My point was the ENDINGS were the same. AAA! Now I have to go into such tedious detail!
You can't compare a poisonous substance that happens to be on a see-base (quite realistic actually) that kills the creatures that you didn't want to necessarily kill just talk to without them shooting you, to a multifunctional device that has a new capability every time it turns up, that just disables everyone's guns.
@LegoDaleks (cont...) if he had to rant at the humans for their violence and war machines even whilst they're being overwhelmed and persecuted, he could do it whilst frustratedly mixing the solution and whilst doing something actually useful to save their necks.
@sadako24 I'll just say it again: The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself.
I think U'd prefer Dexter to DW.
Next you'll be criticising Gandhi & Martin Luther King Jr. for their peaceful resistance & for not trying to save people's necks by killing other people.
@sadako24 continued) The wang is clearly a cure all. If it can do that then there is never any peril when faced with gun possessing foes EVER! The thing has limitless functions there's NO WAY you can compare that to hexacromite. Hexacromite is realistic & based on substances that ACTUALLY exist. Guess what? Magic doesn't exist. Making Byrne FAR superior to Chibnall & JNT superior to Muppet.
@LegoDaleks "If it can do that then there is never any peril when faced with gun possessing foes EVER! The thing has limitless functions"
It shatters Silurian guns that had glass bulbs. Doesn't mean it works on all weapons
"Hexacromite is realistic & based on substances that ACTUALLY exist"
Its a ready made solution. No challenge for the Dr so the writer forced a false moral dilemma from it. If the Dr had to mix up and make the poison himself once reason fails then you have something
@sadako24 I'm assuming you've watched Nu-hu long enough to realise that his wang does have limitless functions. Stop pretending to yourself that it doesn't, look up 'sonic screwdriver' on Wikipedia. Do it! All the proof is there. Stop making dumbass assertions. If you've got nothing to say then don't say anything.
The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself.
@LegoDaleks "The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself." Well I guess it suits your immature fanboyish hissy fits of 'it should only be done in a way that I think is right'.
@sadako24 Not that 'I think is right', it's definitely right to chose the peaceful option to murder. Only you, soldiers & homicidal maniacs think otherwise.
You nonsensically claim that it should be done YOUR way. Making your statement quite hypocritical.
@LegoDaleks "Not that 'I think is right'" But that's your whole attitude to everything- the Weeping Angels shouldn't do that because they didn't before. The Tardis shoyuldn';t have brakes because it didn't before- it's all ruined, wah wah wah!
@sadako24 Okay next episode the angels should have completely different powers & behave differently & they should just be different in general every time they turn up, right? There's nothing wrong with having at least some basic sensical structure.
The joke about the brakes is that the Dr always leaves them on but River isn't stupid enough to leave them on. The joke was stupid, but even stupider was the inconsistency later on in the season where River does leave the brakes on.(so does the master
@LegoDaleks "The joke about the brakes is that the Dr always leaves them on but River isn't stupid enough to leave them on. The joke was stupid, but even stupider was the inconsistency later on in the season where River does leave the brakes on."
@LegoDaleks (cont...) that way the Doctor really would've thought the appeal of reason was his only chance of stopping the Silurians because he thought he had no effective weapons. He wouldn't have known the solution was there all along. That way it would genuinely be a case of him trying the sensible option first, rather than ignoring it till the end. If he had limited time to make it before the nukes launce there's no time for him to be stubborn or give the humans lectures whilst they're dying
@sadako24 hmm, it seems you are forgetting that that didn't happen & it didn't happen because of the Dr. He finally did use that option as the better of two evils, but just as he stated at the end: "there should have been another way." which is obviously right since murder is NEVER the BEST option, or do you think otherwise????
See how I made a good point & you couldn't make a point at all? If you have something important to say then say it, otherwise -Stumm!
@LegoDaleks ""there should have been another way." which is obviously right since murder is NEVER the BEST option"
Erm, to kill an enemy combatant in self-defence who are gunning people down, and intent on committing genocide.... isn't actually murder. If you believe it is, then no wonder you buy into the trash of that story.
@sadako24 Again you must think Gandhi & Martin Luther King Jr. complete fools. Two wrongs don't make a right you thick person. Murder is STILL NEVER the best option. But it is the option they eventually chose, because the human race was at stake.
@sadako24 We don't have Gandhi's opinion on that one, so you can speculate all you like. the UN is an external force what goes on in Rwanda has little to do with them. The Dr's situation is more like Gandhi's except the Eocenes aren't as evil as Gandhi's enemies.
@LegoDaleks "the UN is an external force what goes on in Rwanda has little to do with them."
Well does that mean you agree with them doing nothing to save the people being massacred? It would explain a lot about why you like trash like Warriors of the Deep.
@sadako24 Don't pretend to misunderstand. Should I write it again then for Ur tiny mind?
U believe that trying NOT to kill the faction, that is killing some other faction, is stupid. Therefore U think that killing is clever & nonviolence, like the kind that Gandhi & MatinLutherKingJr. practised, is stupid.
That is derived logically from your earlier statements.
Jerky statement isn't it? Go to to Iraq then
Btw being unable to speak English doesn't make someone an idiot. It's a 2nd language for me
@LegoDaleks "U believe that trying NOT to kill the faction, that is killing some other faction, is stupid. Therefore U think that killing is clever & nonviolence, like the kind that Gandhi & MatinLutherKingJr. practised, is stupid."
Any philosophy taken to that extreme is stupid-If u won't save people from being killed u are no better than whoever killed them-watch Hotel Rwanda
"being unable to speak English doesn't make someone an idiot. It's a 2nd language for me"
@LegoDaleks You're clearly very morally confused. Much like the JNT story you defend. Watch Hotel Rwanda and then tell me violence is never the answer.
"U actually said that Gandhi & MartinLutherKingJr. R stupid."
No I didn't. Ghandi and Martin Luther were about rights for their people in the nation they lived in. Their pacifism was about improving the perception of their people and shaming their oppressers. That pacifism doesnt work in war or genocide. The Doctor can't be a pacifist
@sadako24 I am not morally confused. If murder is wrong then it's wrong. just sometimes heroes do the wrong thing but only when it's the lesser of two evils, so that the audience can at least feel that some justice has been done.
Pacifism doesn't work in war? War doesn't work at all. If one side starts shooting the other what is so great about retaliation? Why kill & die? It's best to die then kill a bunch of people & then get killed anyway or just continue living on & living with that.
@LegoDaleks "I am not morally confused. If murder is wrong then it's wrong." If it's done in self-defence or protectrion of innocents, then not only is it not wrong, it's not actually murder. Get that through to your thick head.
"Pacifism doesn't work in war? War doesn't work at all."
Maybe not but I'd hardly think that's gounds to go out onto a battlefield where soldiers are fighting for their lives and keep pestering them and telling them to stop shooting back. That's being a dick.
Anyway Gandhi & I agree on this one: killing someone in self defence or to protect innocents is wrong, because it is still murder & there is NOTHING that justifies murder. Do please get THAT through your thick scull.
Just because one chooses the lesser of two evils doesn't make wrong right i.e. two wrongs don't make a right.
No you don't pester soldiers you don't even have soldiers in the first place. You stop them from putting that ridiculous uniform on.
@LegoDaleks "killing someone in self defence or to protect innocents is wrong, because it is still murder & there is NOTHING that justifies murder. Do please get THAT through your thick scull."
I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than live by that philosophy for a second- that helping to save people is wrong, and the lives of murderers are more important than the lives of their victims. That warped philosophy has no place in a show about a HERO who saves people.
@sadako24 Oh brother. No one said that the lives of murders R more important. U like GenesisotDaleks right? Well in that there's a line from the Dr's famous speech about: if he wipes out the Daleks he becomes like them. Maybe you dislike that speech as well
Uh I'm an atheist as well -duh. Most atheists have read quite a lot of the Bible & even though God & the after life don't exist & it's EXTREMELY sexist & homophobic, there's no need to dismiss EVERYTHING that it says. e.g. Jesus is quite wise
@LegoDaleks "U like GenesisotDaleks right? Well in that there's a line from the Dr's famous speech about: if he wipes out the Daleks he becomes like them. Maybe you dislike that speech" No killing helpless embryos is far closer to murder. I'd have hated it if he let the Daleks keep that information on how to prevent their future defeats because he didn't want those Dalek armies to die- which is what the Doctor of Warriors of the Deep would've done. Jesus is a symbol. Symbols can't learn or adapt
@sadako24 continued) You: eye an for an eye & a tooth for a tooth
Me (as well as 5 & Gandhi): Turn the other cheek.
Lemme guess, Jesus was stupid too. Whereas Moses, he had the right idea, right? Anyway even Moses wrote: Thou shalt not kill. But if you read what else he wrote he's a bit of an intolerant hypocrite.
Didn't mean to get all religious on your ass.
Anyway there's nothing actually wrong with the Dr having higher morals than you. That doesn't make him stupid.
@LegoDaleks "Anyway there's nothing actually wrong with the Dr having higher morals than you. That doesn't make him stupid."
They're not higher morals, they're confused, warped morals. Every other Doctor would think so (except Tennant) You may have some creative talent and imagination when it comes to your model designs and animations, but you've a lot to learn about how the world works, kid.
This vid: A bunch of propaganda. Graham Williams was a great writer His era just doesn't look as filmish as past ones. TomBaker&DW was very popular in 1976 & Mary's complaints usually lead to greater viewing figures. In 1980 JNT made the right changes to suit the coming of a new decade (unlike Muppet), Barry Letts was Executive at this time, which is prob. why the stories for that season were so good. The 20th anniversary still remains the best multi-dr/companion/monster adventure of them all.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@LegoDaleks You utterly missed my point about Mary. The point is her complaints to the BBC got Hinchcliffe fired. I like Williams era actually but things began to become dysfunctional behind the scenes then. None of JNT's decisions were good, the show got cancelled, his era featured the worst stories, worst companions and worst Doctors. None of his Doctors are as well remembered as Tom Baker. The Five Doctors is good but only because JNT for once let a good writer like Terrance Dicks write it
sadako24 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@sadako24 There are lots of good 80's stories. U mentioned Caves of Androzani. If U think that Holmes is a good writer then you'd have to admit that TrialTimelord & 2Doctors were good as well. There was nothing wrong with the 6thDr. era, Grade would've happily cancelled DW in 1975. It wasn't JNT's fault. He's the only one who stuck with DW through thick & thin. The cancellation wasn't even announced cuz they knew there would be an uproar
No other Dr. will ever be as well-remembered as the 4th
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks Many said no Dr would ever better the 3rd, but the 4th Dr had enough good stories to. Any Drs after Tom could've done the same with better writing. Alas no. The few good 80s stories were drowned out by the bad and didn't change the show for the better. After Caves, Holmes was never that good again, 2Doctors started well but went downhill, Trial was a mess. Revelation is the only solid 6th Dr story. JNT stuck with the show, but being such a control freak he also cut out all the talent
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 No, ReTarD & Muppet are what you call control freaks. The 6thDr. could have easily been on par with the 4th had he been able to do his run until HE decided to leave. Pretty harsh criticism of Robert Holmes. Do you honestly think that Holmes' later scripts are worse than the Nu-hu trite we get nowadays? Do you value nonsensical catch-phrases that much? Nu-hu just endlessly contradicts & repeats itself. e.g. Rory dies a bunch of times, there are 2 Amys in Big Bang & 2 other instances etc
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks If Colin stayed he'd still remain disgraced by Twin Dilemma. JNT was as much a control freak as RTD, except things were dysfunctional with his team so he couldn't control everything, occasionally quality writing broke through. RTD's team were all yes-men, so he could make it all done his way. Eccleston hated it and was gone in one season. None of your examples of what you find wrong with Moffat's era are worthy criticisms. There's 2 Amy's in Big Bang- so what? Its a time travel show.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 My point about the two Amy's was that they used it THREE times in under 12 months! Is Tennant disgraced by Christmas Invasion & End of Time? (prob. cuz all his ep's were sh!t, but End of Time was sh!t even for Nu-hu standards) Is Matt disgraced by 11th Hour? FYI JNT didn't write the majority of the adventures. His script editors commissioned scripts, ReTarD & Muppet would never hear of that.
Twin Dilemma is an ingenious masterpiece when compared to Rose, Christmas Invasion & 11th Hour.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks 11th Hour's perfect, Rose is ok, Xmas Invasion's dull, but of those only End of Time disgraced the Doctor and even then he didn't strangle his companion. Viewers already liked Tennant too much for it to ruin him, Colin was ruined from the start. He'd never be a public favourite after Twin Dilemma. The show once had such sci-fi credibility Christopher Priest wanted to write it but JNT cut him out- it'd be like if Moffat cut out Gaiman. Eric Saward had to fight for Holmes to be let on
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Gayman isnt cutout to write DW, so it would've been better if he had "cut him out".11thHour is so dull I felt like I unwatched something afterwards. I even left the room to eat a sandwich & came back just to hear more ridiculously sh!t dialogue like: "Who da man" & "Get a girlfriend Jeff" & "fishy custard" - those lines belong in a cartoon for CBBC
6 is more like the 1st than any of the others. There's nothing wrong with trying to strangle Peri, U must B the only 1 who thinks otherwise
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks there's nothing wrong with the Doctor trying to choke the life out of an innocent girl? Who in their right mind would think a cheap shock tactic like that would endear the public to the Doctor? William Hartnel's Doctor was what he was. Colin's Doctor was written as a cheap, contrived imitation. Like Davison before him, he only worked when written against the unpleasant, cowardly character brief that JNT gave him- i.e. Revelation of the Daleks.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The attempted strangulation is ok as long as it happens right after regenerated. He's not quite himself right after he regenerates, so he can behave in many ways. That was just a new & different way for him to behave. He doesn't actually kill her. The scene could put U in mind of the scene in Unearthly Child when the Dr tries to finish off a helpless wounded man with a stone. And as we all know, even after that the the 1st Dr. was still endeared by the public, so 6 isn't cheap at all.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (cont'.)'Rose' is about Rose & the invasion comes 2nd. They never even say Auton.On the 1 hand U say that choosing Holmes for 80's stories is good, but on the other hand U don't even like the majority of the few 80's stories he did. U contradict Urself just to have a go at JNT
JNT got rid of the sonic so that writers could use their brains &have the Dr use his. In 11thHour Muppet has TARDIS randomly spew out an endlessly functional magic wand. There's no argument, JNT is clearly better
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks 'They never even say Auton'- so what? Big deal? It's a pilot, of course the focus is on the companion character seeing Doctor Who adventures for the 1st time. I'd say Holmes' weaker 80's stories were down to his health deteriorating, interference in his stories, and feeling resented & bitter about JNT being unwelcoming and ruining the show. So JNT should've recruited him sooner, but I guess we were lucky Eric Saward fought to have him included at all, despite JNT not wanting him on.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 He wouldn't have attempted writing 2Doctors & Trial if his health was that bad that soon & for that long. The pilot is supposed to introduce the programme, not some simple-minded 19 year old girl. It's not coronation street, it's Doctor Who. Doctor Who is about monsters & or travel. Coronation Street is about low-lives. Believe it or not there's a difference between DW & the common soap opera. If it's an adventure about the Autons you'd expect them to actually at least say Auton.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks That just proves Holmes should've been recruited sooner. The BBC demanded rewrites on Trial so Holmes had a greater workload (didn't help that JNT rejected a good script from PJ Hammond, needlessly making the difficulty of completing the season worse). He fell ill whilst writing the finale. At one of Eric Saward's many script meetings with him Holmes forgot who he was. He died with the finale unfinished, when Eric pieced something together from his notes JNT rejected it, so Eric quit
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Of course JNT rejected it. Eric Saward had planned an ending to DW with Holmes. JNT as a producer would have to be mad to agree to that. had he agreed though then I can say without a doubt that you would blame JNT for the ending DW & use that to criticise him further.
Holmes wasn't always right & JNT wasn't always wrong. For instance Holmes thought that the Five Doctors was a ludicrous idea, but the finished product works very well & it wouldn't have been as good had Holmes written it
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "JNT as a producer would have to be mad to agree to that." It was the only script they had from the mastermind of the whole season and they were facing production deadlines. They're damn lucky Pip and Jane Baker produced a quick substitute (as if JNT liked making himself look like the martyr/miracle worker struggling against all the problems he caused in the first place). And it was JNT's idea in the first place to kill Peri, so he'd been all for bleak endings, so why the turnaround?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 What R U on about now? Saward & Holmes planned an ENDING to the SERIES. Peri doesn't get killed off & even if she did that still wouldn't be the end of the DW. Holmes hadn't produced a finished script, Saward had. JNT just wanted him to change the ending so that it didn't mean the end of DW. That was the last straw for Saward who quite & didn't allow JNT to use any of the material he produced. JNT didn't cause any problems in the 1st place, or R U now going to claim he killed Holmes?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks JNT caused all the problems in the first place. Doctor Who had been accumulating writing talent that understood the show and its hero, for nearly 20 years. JNT took over and got rid of nearly all the old guard of writers, and cut out other high profile writers who wanted to contribute. It should've been *impossible* for the show to suffer a creative drought. JNT made it inevitable. The 6th Dr's character journey was based on ruining the character and then promising to 'fix' him later
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 That's not really true. The production team always tried to get new writers in for variety. Even the most prolific DW writers' scripts had to be heavily script edited sometimes. I believe Graham Williams actually writes a letter of apology to the BBC, apologising for re-using some of the same old writers.
6 isn't based on being ruined, just like the 1st dr isn't. 6 has a good excuse for behaving oddly at first - HE JUST REGENERATED!
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks And yet Robert Holmes and Terrance Dicks had been writing for the show from the late 60's to the late 70's so the BBC can't have had that much of a problem with keeping the old guard. Only JNT did. 6 is based on being ruined. He's made unlikeable with the purpose that it will be a 'big deal' when he develops into someone likeable again.
"6 has a good excuse for behaving oddly at first - HE JUST REGENERATED!"
That's funny- he's regenerated 5 times before and never strangled anyone.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 R U just pretending to be thick? How is attempted strangulation any worse than what the 1st Dr did in his 1st adventure? 6 behaved oddly just like they all do but in a unique way. But U obviously hate originality, which must be why U think so highly of Muppet's trite.
There's nothing wrong with hiring new writers for variety. Dicks tried to get his vampire DW commissioned. But he was rejected by Hinchcliff&Williams JNT eventually commissioned it. That sort of contradicts Ur statement
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "6 behaved oddly just like they all do but in a unique way."
Gotta love you JNT apologists 'it was like the 1st Doctor..& it was unique'
Yeah. Uniquely awful and moronic!
Williams didn't reject State of Decay, the BBC did- they were doing a Vampire drama and didn't want them to clash. JNT commisioned State of Decay only because he was stuck for scripts. It proves old writers could've been sought out, if JNT had allowed it.
I wouldn't ask Dicks his opinion on JNT if I were you
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 An Unearthly Child is equally as moronic then. At least 6 had the excuse that he had just regenerated, what excuse did 1 have?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks Nah, An Unearthly Child shits on Twin Dilemma. It features a Doctor with actual genuine motivations and a quick thinking mind rather than acting upon contrived pupeteered actions for the sake of cheap shock tactics. In all the ways that JNT took the once strong-willed, free-spirited hero and turned him into a puppet.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 'puppet', is completely unfounded. There's nothing wrong with him behaving out of sorts after he regenerated, because he always does that. The 1st Dr just seems like he is a cold calculating murdering jerk and his actions aren't really explained. Peri shows the Dr. himself which makes him stop, which is quite clever really.
Are you saying you didn't find the 1st dr's actions shocking?
A shock tactic would be if he kissed her, which is something they would & have used in Nuhu
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The 1st Dr just seems like he is a cold calculating murdering jerk and his actions aren't really explained"
They don't need to be. The viewer's expected to be smart enough to figure out why.
It's not like we saw him take several practice blows to the guy's head
"Peri shows the Dr. himself which makes him stop, which is quite clever really."
Clever? That Peri shows the Doctor not to do something utterly stupid and dangerous that he should've known not to do in the first place?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 It's cool that he stops after seeing his reflection in the mirror. It's like he comes back to his senses. So, clever on the writer's part. A hero, like the Dr, doesn't go around killing the weak. It's sort of a primitive thing to do. But the Dr. doesn't do primitive things because he is an old wise genius, but not in the way that the Master is. So it isn't really explained. The 1st dr scene was just as shocking as the 6th dr's scene.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "It's cool that he stops after seeing his reflection in the mirror. It's like he comes back to his senses. So, clever on the writer's part. A hero, like the Dr, doesn't go around killing the weak. It's sort of a primitive thing to do."
It might have been justified if the story as a whole was about that thin line between civilisation and barbarity in a greater sense (like An Unearthly Child really). Instead the scene seems to exist for its own sensationalist sake.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 No, THE DR still isn't justified for doing that. The Dr isn't supposed to be that primitive-minded. Maybe one of the 20thcent. humans could, who would normally think how much better they R than the cave men. That might have been a lot better.
1 was behaving like himself, whereas 6 was out of sorts. The Dr always needs to behave odd after regenerating, instead of 6 doing what the majority of them do -act silly, he acts disturbed & paranoid - better than just acting silly again.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "No, THE DR still isn't justified for doing that. The Dr isn't supposed to be that primitive-minded." I didn't mean *he* was justified, I meant doing a story about taking him in that direction would have been justified.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 That STILL wouldn't justify his actions.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks And Holmes and Saward didn't plan an ending, they planned a cliffhanger.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 A cliffhanger that the Dr can never get out of is an ending. The ending Trial has now is a cliffhanger.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks A cliffhanger is *supposed* to look inescapeable.
"The ending Trial has now is a cliffhanger."
Yeah.... a shit one.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The cliffhanger it has now wasn't the end of DW, making it less sh!t than the one Saward planned. It wasn't just supposed to look inescapable, it was meant to actually be inescapable & that ending wouldn't have lead well into the next season.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "that ending wouldn't have lead well into the next season." yeah it would. The point would be that eventually the Doctor would emerge triumphant from the Time Vent he and the Valeyard had fallen into, with some dramatic ambiguity about whether he had merged with his evil future self in the process.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The two of them were supposed to be fighting it out for all eternity. How does: 'the dr coming out of the time vent' make for a good season opener? Why would you say that that leads in well? It doesn't. It's just the continuation of the old story/season, that isn't a very good beginning to a new season at all.
Let me put it in perspective for you:
It would be like 2006 Nu-hu beginning with more Bad Wolf stuff on satellite 5 left over from last season. Anti-climactic.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks On the subject of Rose as a pilot. I'll meet you halfway and say that Terrance Dicks' Seven Keys To Doomsday script would have been a far better pilot for the new show.
sadako24 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "JNT got rid of the sonic so that writers could use their brains." but the writers and 5th Dr didn't use their brains. They had the Dr do nothing and let everyone die, even when a load of cannisters to kill the invaders and save the day were at his feet all along (Warriors of the Deep, Resurrection of the Daleks), or run away (Mawdryn Undead) I've never seen a more impotent Doctor. 11th hour has the Dr win without the sonic. That's the whole point. You weren't paying attention
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 No, YOU weren't paying attention. The Nu-dr constantly uses his magic wand to solve all of his problems. e.g. All his foes put there brains together & come up with putting him in a box, which is then the cliffhanger (only 3 cliffhangers a season), next ep. he gets out using his wang - the epitome of lame! He's got no brains & neither have the writers. Why doesn't he just get the TARDIS to spew a bunch more wands that he can then hand out to UNIT & then just bugger off?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks How can you have missed the line in 11th Hour where the Doctor outright says he beat Prisoner Zero with 'no screwdriver, no Tardis'?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 That's right he just stands on a roof top shouting at the top of his voice...again. But who cares about that? What about the finale? All his foes come together, all their brains&technology has them come up with the sh!test plan ever & then he just escapes using his wang. And that was the only cliffhanger without a NextTimeTrailer, ALL his baddies, expectations were higher than ever. JNT would've never commissioned that sh!t. But Muppet has no filter, he just commissions his own sh!t
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks
"That's right he just stands on a roof top shouting at the top of his voice...again."
No, he actually does more than that and uses resources and ingenuity to save the day.
"JNT would've never commissioned that sh!t."
JNT also wouldn't commision Paradise 5, which would have been one of the best stories of the Trial season, so what does that prove?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 That still doesn't disprove what I said. Big Bang was crap, the kind of crap that can only be commissioned by the person who "wrote" it. none of us know what "paradise 5" would have been like. Trial of a Timelord has great stories anyway.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks I've actually listened to Big Finish's adaptation of Paradise 5, and can safely say it shits on Terror of the Vervoids and most of JNT's stories from a great height. Why it was rejected by JNT defies all cognitive reasoning.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 But it makes all the sense in the world that it would never be commissioned by Muppet, cuz he makes like ReTarD & only commissions scripts that are even worse than his own.
I'll have to take Ur word on paradise5 being good, but all the Big Finish stuff I listened to was almost as garbagey as Nuhu. Had paradise5 already been script edited by Eric Saward? I could see how it could be good in that case.
Muppet would never hire Eric Saward either.
Never the less Trial turned out fine anyhow
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks hate to break it to you but PJ Hammond has already been commisioned twice by RTD on Torchwood and wrote two of its better stories. If you think Big Finish is garbage then you just don't know good quality writing.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Torchwood hasn't got 1 good story. So PJ Hammond has, like Chibnall, failed miserably. Big Finish hires writers like Rob Sherman, Nick Briggs & Marc Platt - not the best, not by a long shot. Have you listened to Jubilee? It's fanfic worthy. Jubilee is like Dalek - lacking in plot & too much nonsensical, ill-fitting over-emotional, slow-paced dialogue.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks Rubbish! Rob Shearman and Nick Briggs are great writers with strong understanding of the show. I've heard Jubilee and you must've missed the point of it. It's about the relationship between tyrant & oppressed, consumerism as aversion therapy for an anxiety culture, how abstract moral tyranny renders personal responsibiity void, how lessons about Nazism have become a distraction from contemporary atrocities. A bit more sophisticated than the mindless shooting of Warriors of the Deep
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 All the Dalek dialogue doesn't fit the Daleks. Rob Sherman wrote 'Dalek' - it was about an emo Dalek, with all its depression it commits suicide. And you say that is written by someone who understands Doctor Who? Are you completely clueless?
There was no MINDLESS shooting in Warriors of the Deep. At least an all powerful Dalek doesn't just appear out of nowhere making the Dr less rational than his companions and then committing suicide. A Dalek shooting mindlessly would make more sense
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks The whole point was the Dalek had lost the war, was completely alone and without any purpose in function, and had gone insane. That much should have been obvious even to you.
Warriors of the Deep was completely mindless and pointless. None of the violence had any effect on the Doctor who delusionally insisted the massacre of humans wasn't happening and insisted that the genocidal Silurians weren't aggressors and were actually splendid chaps. So none of it had any point at all.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The Dalek just happened to be on earth, then the humans just happened to be able to capture it without touching it. It was that weak & then for no reason the Dalek becomes all powerful after Rose touches it. Rob Sherman clearly hasn't got a clue about how to write DW.
U can try & re-write Sherman's rubbish all U want, but according to the ep the Dalek hadn't gone insane.
The Dr said that the Silurians were an intelligent race who has as much right to survive & live on earth as humans
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "according to the ep the Dalek hadn't gone insane."
"it burned in its crater for three days and all that time it was screaming. Must have gone insane" You clearly didn't watch it properly.
"The Dr said that the Silurians were an intelligent race"
so were the Daleks and Nazis. Should we surrender to and be chummy with them?
Ho does that gives them the right to massacre the humans and nuke the planet? The story is based on suicidal stupidity. Hence its mindless garbage
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 You just gave more evidence for my argument. He couldn't bring himself to destroy the Daleks & he never was chummy with them either, but they are a lot worse than the Silurians. The Silurians don't want to go around conquering other worlds, they just want there own back. Human beings are far worse than Silurians & he acts chummy with them. Just like the humans nuke each other the Silurians have the same right as the humans since it's their planet too.
Insane Daleks are emos?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@LegoDaleks "He couldn't bring himself to destroy the Daleks" Yes he could. He changed his mind & went back to destroy the incubator room, & told Bettan to attack the bunker. He's not a pacifist lunatic like in Warriors of the Deep
"Human beings are far worse than Silurians & he acts chummy with them. Just like the humans nuke each other the Silurians have the same right as the humans" You can't have it both ways. You can't condemn man's terrible deeds, then say Silurians have the right to kill
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 He doesn't regret that he didn't destroy the Daleks - listen to his speech at the end of Genesis.
Read my comment again, cuz I didn't condemn man. The fact is Man has done terrible things worse things than the Silurians have, but the Dr. is still "chummy" with them. Remember that the Dr is an alien & relates to them all equally.
The Silurians have the same rights as the humans, as they come from earth. Comprende?
They wanted to destroy the human race in their 1st adventure as well.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "He doesn't regret that he didn't destroy the Daleks - listen to his speech at the end of Genesis." He's taking what consolation he can from his failure. If the appeaser Doctor of Warriors of the Deep was in Genesis, he'd have let the Daleks keep the tape recording of their future defeats out of pity for them, and he'd have stopped Bettan blowing the bunker and thus got all the Thals killed.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Doesn't Sarah say: "we failed, didn't we?" (or sth. like that) but the Dr answers: "Not really."
"Out of their evil must come something good."&"There should have been another way" These lines make sense & answer Ur questions.
Not all the Thals R killed, otherwise they wouldn't return in subsequent stories. TheDaleks R entombed when the Dr. leaves, which gives the Thals plenty of time to escape death.
Daleks want to conquer other worlds,the Silurians just want to live on there own world
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks " "Out of their evil must come something good."&"There should have been another way" These lines make sense & answer Ur questions."
No, "There should have been another way" is just a cheap and hollow attempt to pretend the preventable, and senseless deaths of the story were meaningful. Again it's JNT's martyr-complex being forced on the Doctor so that he lets terrible things happen just so he can look remorseful about it afterwards. But fandom was fooled into thinking it was iconic
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The 3rd Dr could have easily said the same line at the end of Doctor Who & The Silurians. The deaths were senseless & not sacrificial or meaningful hence "there should have been another way" -- meaning also that instead of just one side destroying the other there should have been a way to prevent the blood shed & live in peace. It's a lesson to show the evils that humans are capable of - we see the Dr's point of view. Human beings were the real bad guys in warriors of the Deep.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "there should have been a way to prevent the blood shed"
He could've used Hexacromite to destroy the Sea Devil's first wave once they started killing people. The rest would retreat, the base saved. But the story needed him to fail
"we see the Dr's point of view."
Even any prior Doctor would be incapable of seeing the 5th Doctor's warped point of view.
"Human beings were the real bad guys."
What kind of bad guys would take a bullet and sacrifice themselves to protect the Doctor?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 They didn't find out about the hexacrite until later. Do keep up. The humans were the bad guys because they had all those dangerous weapons that were primed & ready to destroy civilisation. So as a whole, as a group they are the bad guy, but of course there are always individuals who will sacrifice their lives to save others.
The Dr is the one who saves the earth in the end, so the other Dr's would have no problem with that or with the fact that he tried to prevent bloodshed.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks No, Hexacromite's the first thing the Doctor finds in part 1. Don't make excuses that he didn't know the solution was there when he clearly did.
"The Dr is the one who saves the earth in the end, so the other Dr's would have no problem with that
They'd see him as another traitor to a genocidal war-like enemy, and despised him just like he did the Controller in Day of the Daleks.
"or with the fact that he tried to prevent bloodshed."
Yeah by preserving the murderous aggressors
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 In part1, 5 & his companions R attacked by humans not Eocenes, so of course 5's not going to start out thinking of ways to kill Eocenes. FYI the Dr always tries the peaceful solution to a problem & only uses violence as a last resort. Should I say it again or have U grasped it this time?
Controller in DayotDaleks was a hypocrite, abusing his own people. U cn't compare them.
Humans R genocidal war-like beings. But 5 knows that the Eocenes & humans R more than just murderous aggressors.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Controller in DayotDaleks was a hypocrite, abusing his own people. U cn't compare them"
Yes I can.The controller thought the enemy could be reasonable, even when the story's ending proved otherwise. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller thought co-operation through surrender was the way. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller tried to outlaw the humans from any resistance or fighting back. So did the 5th Doctor. The controller protested that he was trying to save lives. So did etc..
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The Daleks had invaded earth a long time ago & were unreasonable for many years.
The humans & Eocenes are BOTH unreasonable. The humans were the helpless innocent victims of the Daleks. The Daleks didn't need to go to earth & the humans weren't as much the aggressors to the Daleks as they were to the Eocenes & if you think they were then they had the right to be anyway, cuz the Daleks are invaders from another planet. So you really can't compare the two.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (continued) It is impossible for Daleks & humans to co-exist peacefully, the Dr likes to think that it isn't impossible for human & Eocene coexistence, since they both have equal right to the planet. He isn't wrong for being fair on both species that BOTH have the right to the planet. He may have let humans die but he also let Eocenes die.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks His aims for 'peace' are contradicted by the fact that he lets the most belligerent and warmongering Silurians do what they want. Usually when the Doctor wants peace, he helps to get rid of the tyrant, not hand victory to them.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 According to you he DID hand victory to the tyrant one the end - the humans. See the end of Warriors of the Deep - he doesn't let them do what they want.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks if the humans are only fighting for survival, then by default, they're not the tyrants.
sadako24 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The humans were the bad guys because they had all those dangerous weapons that were primed & ready to destroy civilisation. "
And of course the Silurians are 'better' even though they intended to actually *use* those weapons to destroy civilisation?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 One side wasn't better than the other -duh, that was the whole point. One side just wanted to destroy the other. But of course humans are sort of worse than the Eocenes cuz they made the weapons to kill their own kind. So the humans want to destroy each other & the Eocenes. I think that is just a little more evil than what the Eocenes had planned. At least the Silurians & Sea Devils could get along & not want to kill one another. Look at the facts the Humans R just as bad if not worse.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "At least the Silurians & Sea Devils could get along & not want to kill one another."
You clearly haven't seen the first Silurian story properly. If you did you'd remember that scene where the old Silurian leader wanted peace, and so they young Silurian leader killed him and took over. None of your assertions about Silurian nobility fit what's on screen.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 One Silurian killing another Silurian you cannot compare to the "racial purity" the Nazis believed in. You have good, bad, reasonable & unreasonable Silurians as well as humans. But the Eocenes never wanted to nuke one another & proved that they could work peacefully with one another, this fact proves that they are nobler than humans at least.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Not all the Thals R killed, otherwise they wouldn't return in subsequent stories. TheDaleks R entombed when the Dr. leaves, which gives the Thals plenty of time to escape death."
Yes, and all because the Doctor was characterised properly, unlike in Warriors of the Deep where he'd have gotten them all killed by forbidding them to fight back against the Daleks.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 U're tiring. The Daleks are evil & want to conquer the UNIVERSE. The Silurians & humans want to wipe each other out, but the Dr. wants them to live in harmony. Understand now please.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Remember that the Dr is an alien & relates to them all equally" No he places the Silurians lives over the humans they're killing (even when one woman takes a bullet for him). There's no rationale behind his judgement in Warriors that suits the character's common sense. It wasn't remotely thought out and contradicts everything of the Doctor
"They wanted to destroy the human race in their 1st adventure as well"
Only some did and the Doctor wasn't interested in saving those Silurians
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 He WAS interested in saving THOSE Silurians. The Brig killed a bunch of them & the Navy killed a bunch of them as well. Warriors of the Deep was pay-back time. U seem to be forgetting that all together there are far more Sea Devils & Silurians that are killed by humans than vice versa.
So he couldn't have put the Silurians first.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "He WAS interested in saving THOSE Silurians." He wasn't. When the Brig shot dead the young leader Silurian in the caves (the one determined to wipe out man), the Doctor actually 'thanked' him. He did nothing to try and treat the shot Silurian.
"the Navy killed a bunch of them" In retaliation for their unprovoked destruction of passing ships. In the end the Dr destroyed the Sea Devil base himself so he'd already decided whose side he was on. Warriors of the Deep contradicts that.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 He's not on any one's side. And if he was on the humans side in the past then it makes perfect sense that after the greater number of casualties on the Eocenes caused by the humans, the Dr. might pity the Eocenes more than the humans. In that case his behaviour in Warriors of the Deep makes perfect sense. At least he doesn't just unrealistically disable all their guns with his magic wand & start shouting nonsense.
The Master & the humans were the real bad guys in The Sea Devils.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks No. Once The Sea Devils saw the Doctor make that transition from being on the Sea Devils's side to finally deciding to choose and save the humans, you can't pretend that didn't happen and that he's back on the Silurians/Sea Devils side. Warriors of the Deep doesn't even try to give him a decent reason to be on their side. It just has him become delusional and insist they're the noble victims even whilst they're killing people without provocation.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Some facts: They R noble (depending on Ur definition of noble, but they R nobler than the humans) & they R victims (or have been many times in the past).
It would not make any sense for him to be completely on one side or the other (which he isn't) & it would make even less sense if he were only on the humans' side. Warriors is a lot better & more sensical the way it is than if, what you suggest, 5 were on the humans side & would rule out a peaceful solution & grab a gun & shoot them.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Some facts: They R noble (depending on Ur definition of noble, but they R nobler than the humans)"
Sounds like your definition of 'noble' would favour the Nazis- after all it's their planet too and they were victims of World War 1. The only reason you think they're noble is just because the Doctor says so. Nothing onscreen in that story makes them seem remotely noble. Would it make sense if the Doctor in Victory of the Daleks told Churchill to surrender and make peace with Hitler?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Uuuh, the Nazi's were killing people inside & outside their own country. they could have just happily lived in Germany which is their home. The Eocene's home is earth. Why do I constantly have to state the obvious?
FYI the Dr encountered them in the past so he's got all the proof he needs that they are noble.
If 11 had said that to Churchill, it would have made just as little sense as all his other nonsensical lines in that sad-excuse for a script.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Nazi's were killing people inside & outside their own country. they could have just happily lived in Germany which is their home. The Eocene's home is earth"
So it's ok for Nazis to commit genocide as long as its within Germany?
"Why do I constantly have to state the obvious?"
Because you're desperately defending utter garbage
"the Dr encountered them in the past so he's got all the proof he needs that they are noble"
So if the Dr's met noble humans it proves Nazis were noble?
sadako24 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@sadako24 Stop trying to misunderstand. I said that killing people inside or outside of a nation is BAD! Do I have to spell-out every detail for U? The Eocenes, unlike the humans, weren't killing each other, so stop trying to compare them with the Nazis
Ur making less sense now: I have to state the obvious cuz I'm defending garbage? Do U think before U write this stuff?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "I said that killing people inside or outside of a nation is BAD!"
Which blatantly contradicts your point that the Silurians had the right to destroy the humans because it's their home. If the Silurians are allowed to, then so are the Nazis. Silurians were racists- they hated all humans and wanted to wipe them out- no distinction between army or civilians. The Nazis' excuses were no different to the Silurians. Don't pretend one was more justified than the other.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Why are you now under the impression that I said that the Eocenes are good guys. They are bad guys, but not as bad as the humans.
For some reason you think that Eocenes & humans are the same species.
A little education: Eocenes killing humans is as racist as when humans exterminate pests/vermin. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Do you even know the definition of racism? If someone hates cockroaches does that make them racist? Well? Does it? Please tell me you at least realise THAT error you made?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks A little education: Most racists *do* believe that the races they consider inferior are animals and vermin.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Ahem, you've missed the point & have even changed the subject. A human being hating vermin & wanting to kill cockroaches is not racist. THAT's what I said. Silurians hating humans is in no way racist. Should I write it AGAIN?
Please read carefully & then think a second or two before you write such ignorant replies.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks So does that mean Daleks aren't racist?
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Daleks are racist, they are based on the Nazis. But the Daleks killing humans isn't racist. Just like Silurians hating & killling humans isn't racist either.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks Well I got the impression you thought the Eocenes were the good guys because you kept calling them 'noble', and you consider the humans the 'bad guys' for killing the Eocenes in Warriors of the Deep, even though the humans only do so in self-defence against an aggressor determined to wipe them out. Which suggested strongly that you were on the Silurians side all the way.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The Eocenes aren't completely bad, just like the humans aren't. But I have given evidence that the humans behave/behaved worse than them.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The Eocenes aren't completely bad, just like the humans aren't. I have given evidence that the humans behave/behaved worse than them."
No. There's no examples of Silurians/Sea Devils taking a bullet/sacrificing themselves to save the Doctor. But some of the humans did. So the humans were more noble. If they wanted a story where Silurians genuinely were noble JNT should have brought in a decent writer like Terrance Dicks who actually understood how to convey that. It was that easy.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 I'm assuming U've seen & like Doctor Who & The Silurians & The Sea Devils. They never took bullets for him in those adventures either. Didn't U consider them noble in those?
Anyway, I've already given plenty of evidence that shows that on a whole the humans R worse than the Eocenes. So if humans could in some cases be called "noble" then so can the Eocenes. Perhaps not wanting to kill one another could be seen as noble or at least nobler than humans who are always killing each other
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks Cybermen dont tend to kill each other, nor Sontarans. Does that make them noble? Would the Dr claim they're a better species?
"Doctor Who & The Silurians & The Sea Devils. They never took bullets for him in those adventures either. Didn't U consider them noble in those?"
I did, because some of them were willing to negotiate peace with the Dr. There's no sign of that in Warriors of the Deep, therefore the Dr had no business claiming a peaceful solution was possible via appeasement.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The thing is he already knows them fro the previous two adventures. Therefore he doesn't need a new sign of that. The Sontarans are sort of racial purists like the Daleks & the Cybermen are all uniform & see all other lifeforms as being irrelevant except for Cyber conversion. But both groups of Eocenes work together & in the past they considered peaceful existence with the humans.
Yes it would have been better if Warriors of the Deep had been longer like the others to fit more story in
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "he already knows them fro the previous two adventures. Therefore he doesn't need a new sign of that"
If they're killing people he can't pretend they're not or harp on of how noble they *used to be* as if it still applies. He needs proof that still applies as do the viewers and the story gives none. A 6-parter might've had more depth/plausibility but the early Hexacromite reveal would still ruin it.I'd say they shouldn't of done the story at all- let the Pertwee classics stand alone
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Your harsh criticism of JNT is weird to me, especially since you actually like Muppet's trite - now there are some "stories" that should have never been done. Series 5 & 6. Girl in the Fireplace should have never been commissioned. Empty Child & Blink should have been script edited & the Library ones should have been very heavily script edited.
Blink should have stood alone without that Time of Angels rubbish. It was like series 5 had been "written" by ReTarD.
The hexocromite reveal...
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks The JNT era for me had enough bad work to form a corrosive critical mass to ruin not only the few good JNT stories but the whole show, even its golden years. Once the Doctor is shown as that pathetic and impotent as in Warriors, destroying the prior 20 years of building him as a capable hero, nothing can ever wash that away. I often think it'd be better if the show had ended on Logopolis with its dignity intact, so the likes of TimeFlight or Warriors never exist to disgrace the canon
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 U R wrong 2005-presnent is a disgrace to the canon. It's about the Dr being in love with a 19 y. o. simpleton, in Girl in the Fireplace he is all of a sudden not in love with her but with some french woman. This not only makes Nu-hu an untrue stupid continuation of DW but it even contradicts what Nu-hu established. ReTarD commissioning Girl in the Fireplace means he's thick
Nuhu is about shocks. Muppet said so himself. His ep's Rn't supposed to have longevity. Nuhu is an expensive soap
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (coninued) There's not 1good thing about Victory. It tries as hard as it can to make the Daleks unscary. Churchill phones the Dr for no reason. The Daleks are fighting on the British side even though them fighting on the German's side would have been such an obviously better story. There are 3 random scenes of some nationalist making faces, putting up flags & shouting"do Ur worst Hitler". The Daleks are fooled by a jammy dodger.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 Cont'd) They do the exact same thing as in Manhatten: The Daleks stand around a great bog device from which their new (f*cking ugly) design is to come out, instead of just exterminating the Dr. At least in Manhatten they killed the ugly American Dalek. In Victory the Teletubbies are here to stay as the most evil race in the universe.
It has the dr behaving like a retarded child when he starts bashing them whilst REPEATEDLY SHOUTING pointless facts: I AM THE DR & U R THE DALEKS ! Repeat
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (cont'd) it's obviously wacky irrational behaviour & dialogue like that that is the worst thing about Nu-hu. How is any of that criticism nitpicky? There's nothing good about Victory of the Daleks. If it were good overall then who would care over minor glitches like the Dr saying that the Daleks are the first terrors he had ever encountered.
Amy's feelings defused a bomb. What kind of ridiculous sad-excuse for sci-fi is that crap?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 And you DO realise that the Daleks threatening to destroy 1940's Earth totally contradicts what the Dr said about them (a year earlier) in Waters of Mars, right? There's much much much too little continuity in Nu-hu. & there's no excuse for lack of continuity in this day & age where we have the internet & DVD's & the whole series is written by just 1 & 1/2 men. No excuse! It's sub-standard tripe & it's more like Harry Potter than like DW. Twilight is to Dracula, what Nu-hu is to DW
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks I don't get your issues with Moffat. I kinda get your point on the easy get-out of Big Bang, but mostly your complaints are really trivial stuff and doesn't matter. A joke about the Tardis you disliked,that the Autons aren't named.Nothing that makes the story fundamentally flawed or unworkable like JNTs worst were. The Angels were still a threat and worth revisits especially if Moffat wrote them. The Silurians had had their proper tragic ending. There was no reason to bring them back
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The Angels stories could have been written by any1. It was like someone else wrote them who had never seen Blink. That's how many errors there were. To name a few: Angels break necks instead of eating time, they want U to look in their eyes even though they previously always covered them (hence "weeping"), their images come to life (but images of them didn't in Blink) they are all of a sudden evil beings that want to take over, they are defeated EXACTLY like the Daleks were in Doomsday
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "It was like someone else wrote them who had never seen Blink. That's how many errors there were." I don't mind that they changed the rules. We didn't learn everything about the Angels in Blink, and they're clearly intelligent, so I don't see it as errors if they've learned to do things differently. Drama requires upping the stakes. If they remained the same as you wanted the stakes wouldn't have been raised and we would have just gotten a story no different to Blink.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 If you're goig to write a whole new monster with entirely different powers & motives. Why just do a different alien instead of trying to fit the Angels in. The Weeping Angel's goal was never for people to look in their eyes. Muppet just made that up later, anyone can see that. Why didn't they mess with the heads of Sparrow & Nightingale after they had been staring them in the eyes? Time of Angels has too many plot holes & even manages to put even more plot holes in Blink as well.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (continued) The absolute worst thing about Nu-hu is what the regulars are given to do & say. They have the most dumbed-down, shallow, immature, teenager dialogue. Like the opening of Vampires in Venice (the dialogue is atrocious) "yours is bigger than mine" "let's not go there" those lines belong on a cartoon on CBBC not DW. "Who da man" "Get a girlfriend Jeff" "Geronimo" "Don't diss the sonic"-17 year old teenagers from the 21st century say that NOT 900 year old timelords.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 (cont'd) could have still been good. When I first saw Warriors & they talked about the negative effects of the substance on Marine life I thought that the Eocenes would attack the humans cuz the humans were poisoning their living environment with the stuff. The story, the way it is, isn't that bad, of course there is room for correction. The majority of Muppet's stuff is beyond correction. It should just all be scrapped, even some of ReTarD's material had more potential than Muppet's
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks The hexacromite's an easy getout that the Doctor is forced by contrived writing to ignore. Yes violence should be a last resort but if he knows how he can end the crisis anytime, but does nothing instead and lets everyone die, then its pointless, worthless trash. It's irredemable. A failure on every level. It wants to show harsh reality of war and man's evil, but no-one's actions are believable or sensible, or cohere to events. It wants to homage the show's past, but it disgraces it.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 I think it's totally realistic that the Dr would not have come up with using the hexocromite. His mind doesn't work that way. He would never be trying to think of ways to destroy the Eocenes. When the substance is revealed early on the focus was more on what kind of an age they have arrived in & what has become of the human race. Warriors isn't as good as the other 2 adventures but I don't think it's worthless, pointless trash.
It could have been a lot worse, just look at Hungry Earth
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "His mind doesn't work that way. He would never be trying to think of ways to destroy the Eocenes." even though he did *exactly* that in the end of The Sea Devils. Not to mention him destroying all the Ice Warriors in Seeds of Death. Warriors is dependent on his mind not working at all.
"It could have been a lot worse, just look at Hungry Earth"
That was bad, but at least the Doctor did and achieved something in it, and it didn't force half as many false motives onto him
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 He did *exactly* that in the end of Warriors as well as the Sea Devils. When it happened in the Sea Devils it was great right? But when pretty much the same thing happens in Warriors it was pointless & crap right? Call that logic?
Well I'm sure if 5 had had a magic wand which he could use to disable all their weapons he would have used it & that would have been a happy ending. EVERYBODY LIVES! Right? You're becoming pathetic.
Can't you take a little more time on these responses?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "When it happened in the Sea Devils it was great right? But when pretty much the same thing happens in Warriors it was pointless & crap right?"
In Sea Devils there was a lost chance at peace that made it tragic. Warriors had nothing to say.
"if 5 had had a magic wand which he could use to disable all their weapons he would have used it & that would have been a happy ending."
The hexacromite *was* a magic wand. A convenient abundant fix-all, but 5 was too stupid to use it
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 My point was the ENDINGS were the same. AAA! Now I have to go into such tedious detail!
You can't compare a poisonous substance that happens to be on a see-base (quite realistic actually) that kills the creatures that you didn't want to necessarily kill just talk to without them shooting you, to a multifunctional device that has a new capability every time it turns up, that just disables everyone's guns.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks (cont...) if he had to rant at the humans for their violence and war machines even whilst they're being overwhelmed and persecuted, he could do it whilst frustratedly mixing the solution and whilst doing something actually useful to save their necks.
sadako24 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sadako24 I'll just say it again: The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself.
I think U'd prefer Dexter to DW.
Next you'll be criticising Gandhi & Martin Luther King Jr. for their peaceful resistance & for not trying to save people's necks by killing other people.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 continued) The wang is clearly a cure all. If it can do that then there is never any peril when faced with gun possessing foes EVER! The thing has limitless functions there's NO WAY you can compare that to hexacromite. Hexacromite is realistic & based on substances that ACTUALLY exist. Guess what? Magic doesn't exist. Making Byrne FAR superior to Chibnall & JNT superior to Muppet.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "If it can do that then there is never any peril when faced with gun possessing foes EVER! The thing has limitless functions"
It shatters Silurian guns that had glass bulbs. Doesn't mean it works on all weapons
"Hexacromite is realistic & based on substances that ACTUALLY exist"
Its a ready made solution. No challenge for the Dr so the writer forced a false moral dilemma from it. If the Dr had to mix up and make the poison himself once reason fails then you have something
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 I'm assuming you've watched Nu-hu long enough to realise that his wang does have limitless functions. Stop pretending to yourself that it doesn't, look up 'sonic screwdriver' on Wikipedia. Do it! All the proof is there. Stop making dumbass assertions. If you've got nothing to say then don't say anything.
The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself.
I think U'd prefer Dexter to DW.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The idea of the Dr using a poison that already exists cuz the humans made it is a lot better morally than the Dr creating a poison himself." Well I guess it suits your immature fanboyish hissy fits of 'it should only be done in a way that I think is right'.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Not that 'I think is right', it's definitely right to chose the peaceful option to murder. Only you, soldiers & homicidal maniacs think otherwise.
You nonsensically claim that it should be done YOUR way. Making your statement quite hypocritical.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Not that 'I think is right'" But that's your whole attitude to everything- the Weeping Angels shouldn't do that because they didn't before. The Tardis shoyuldn';t have brakes because it didn't before- it's all ruined, wah wah wah!
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Okay next episode the angels should have completely different powers & behave differently & they should just be different in general every time they turn up, right? There's nothing wrong with having at least some basic sensical structure.
The joke about the brakes is that the Dr always leaves them on but River isn't stupid enough to leave them on. The joke was stupid, but even stupider was the inconsistency later on in the season where River does leave the brakes on.(so does the master
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The joke about the brakes is that the Dr always leaves them on but River isn't stupid enough to leave them on. The joke was stupid, but even stupider was the inconsistency later on in the season where River does leave the brakes on."
Oh lighten up...
sadako24 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks (cont...) that way the Doctor really would've thought the appeal of reason was his only chance of stopping the Silurians because he thought he had no effective weapons. He wouldn't have known the solution was there all along. That way it would genuinely be a case of him trying the sensible option first, rather than ignoring it till the end. If he had limited time to make it before the nukes launce there's no time for him to be stubborn or give the humans lectures whilst they're dying
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 The option isn't sensible. Get it through your head already.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "The option isn't sensible. Get it through your head already."
I suppose you'd prefer it if the Doctor stood back and let the Silurians nuke the planet and killed millions of innocent men, women and children.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 hmm, it seems you are forgetting that that didn't happen & it didn't happen because of the Dr. He finally did use that option as the better of two evils, but just as he stated at the end: "there should have been another way." which is obviously right since murder is NEVER the BEST option, or do you think otherwise????
See how I made a good point & you couldn't make a point at all? If you have something important to say then say it, otherwise -Stumm!
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks ""there should have been another way." which is obviously right since murder is NEVER the BEST option"
Erm, to kill an enemy combatant in self-defence who are gunning people down, and intent on committing genocide.... isn't actually murder. If you believe it is, then no wonder you buy into the trash of that story.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Again you must think Gandhi & Martin Luther King Jr. complete fools. Two wrongs don't make a right you thick person. Murder is STILL NEVER the best option. But it is the option they eventually chose, because the human race was at stake.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Again you must think Gandhi & Martin Luther King Jr. complete fools."
No, I just think you are.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Some logic: you think that not people who are killing other people is stupid, therefore you think Gandhi is stupid.
You are mistaken he is intelligent and has high morals & heroes should be based on people like that. There's nothing wrong with that.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Some logic: you think that not people who are killing other people is stupid, therefore you think Gandhi is stupid"
No, I just think the Doctor is stupid. I doubt Ghandi would have supported the UN's inaction in Rwanda.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 We don't have Gandhi's opinion on that one, so you can speculate all you like. the UN is an external force what goes on in Rwanda has little to do with them. The Dr's situation is more like Gandhi's except the Eocenes aren't as evil as Gandhi's enemies.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "except the Eocenes aren't as evil as Gandhi's enemies."
Gandhi's enemies didn't want to wipe his whole race out.
"the UN is an external force what goes on in Rwanda has little to do with them."
Yeah but the Doctor of Warriors of the Deep would have stood by them in doing nothing too and let the massacres go on.
sadako24 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "the UN is an external force what goes on in Rwanda has little to do with them."
Well does that mean you agree with them doing nothing to save the people being massacred? It would explain a lot about why you like trash like Warriors of the Deep.
sadako24 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "you think that not people who are killing other people is stupid,"
That doesn't make any fucking sense- speak English will you, idiot!
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Don't pretend to misunderstand. Should I write it again then for Ur tiny mind?
U believe that trying NOT to kill the faction, that is killing some other faction, is stupid. Therefore U think that killing is clever & nonviolence, like the kind that Gandhi & MatinLutherKingJr. practised, is stupid.
That is derived logically from your earlier statements.
Jerky statement isn't it? Go to to Iraq then
Btw being unable to speak English doesn't make someone an idiot. It's a 2nd language for me
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "U believe that trying NOT to kill the faction, that is killing some other faction, is stupid. Therefore U think that killing is clever & nonviolence, like the kind that Gandhi & MatinLutherKingJr. practised, is stupid."
Any philosophy taken to that extreme is stupid-If u won't save people from being killed u are no better than whoever killed them-watch Hotel Rwanda
"being unable to speak English doesn't make someone an idiot. It's a 2nd language for me"
I apologise then
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Dude, Ur brain is the wrong way round. It's the EXACT opposite. If U kill people who R killing people THEN U R no better than them.
I can't believe U actually said that Gandhi & MartinLutherKingJr. R stupid. This proves that U R unreasonable.
Do U at least believe that there is always a better way than killing? One should try & avoid bloodshed for as long as possible & that's what 5 did.
Gandhi is famous for positive things. A wise hero like the Dr should be on par with people like him
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks You're clearly very morally confused. Much like the JNT story you defend. Watch Hotel Rwanda and then tell me violence is never the answer.
"U actually said that Gandhi & MartinLutherKingJr. R stupid."
No I didn't. Ghandi and Martin Luther were about rights for their people in the nation they lived in. Their pacifism was about improving the perception of their people and shaming their oppressers. That pacifism doesnt work in war or genocide. The Doctor can't be a pacifist
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 I am not morally confused. If murder is wrong then it's wrong. just sometimes heroes do the wrong thing but only when it's the lesser of two evils, so that the audience can at least feel that some justice has been done.
Pacifism doesn't work in war? War doesn't work at all. If one side starts shooting the other what is so great about retaliation? Why kill & die? It's best to die then kill a bunch of people & then get killed anyway or just continue living on & living with that.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "I am not morally confused. If murder is wrong then it's wrong." If it's done in self-defence or protectrion of innocents, then not only is it not wrong, it's not actually murder. Get that through to your thick head.
"Pacifism doesn't work in war? War doesn't work at all."
Maybe not but I'd hardly think that's gounds to go out onto a battlefield where soldiers are fighting for their lives and keep pestering them and telling them to stop shooting back. That's being a dick.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Who was innocent in Warriors?
Anyway Gandhi & I agree on this one: killing someone in self defence or to protect innocents is wrong, because it is still murder & there is NOTHING that justifies murder. Do please get THAT through your thick scull.
Just because one chooses the lesser of two evils doesn't make wrong right i.e. two wrongs don't make a right.
No you don't pester soldiers you don't even have soldiers in the first place. You stop them from putting that ridiculous uniform on.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "killing someone in self defence or to protect innocents is wrong, because it is still murder & there is NOTHING that justifies murder. Do please get THAT through your thick scull."
I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than live by that philosophy for a second- that helping to save people is wrong, and the lives of murderers are more important than the lives of their victims. That warped philosophy has no place in a show about a HERO who saves people.
BTW, I'm an atheist.
sadako24 1 month ago
@sadako24 Oh brother. No one said that the lives of murders R more important. U like GenesisotDaleks right? Well in that there's a line from the Dr's famous speech about: if he wipes out the Daleks he becomes like them. Maybe you dislike that speech as well
Uh I'm an atheist as well -duh. Most atheists have read quite a lot of the Bible & even though God & the after life don't exist & it's EXTREMELY sexist & homophobic, there's no need to dismiss EVERYTHING that it says. e.g. Jesus is quite wise
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "U like GenesisotDaleks right? Well in that there's a line from the Dr's famous speech about: if he wipes out the Daleks he becomes like them. Maybe you dislike that speech" No killing helpless embryos is far closer to murder. I'd have hated it if he let the Daleks keep that information on how to prevent their future defeats because he didn't want those Dalek armies to die- which is what the Doctor of Warriors of the Deep would've done. Jesus is a symbol. Symbols can't learn or adapt
sadako24 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sadako24 Okay, well if Jesus is a symbol that can't adapt, isn't the Dr the same?
So ... do you agree with what 4 said in Genesis or what?
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@sadako24 continued) You: eye an for an eye & a tooth for a tooth
Me (as well as 5 & Gandhi): Turn the other cheek.
Lemme guess, Jesus was stupid too. Whereas Moses, he had the right idea, right? Anyway even Moses wrote: Thou shalt not kill. But if you read what else he wrote he's a bit of an intolerant hypocrite.
Didn't mean to get all religious on your ass.
Anyway there's nothing actually wrong with the Dr having higher morals than you. That doesn't make him stupid.
LegoDaleks 1 month ago
@LegoDaleks "Anyway there's nothing actually wrong with the Dr having higher morals than you. That doesn't make him stupid."
They're not higher morals, they're confused, warped morals. Every other Doctor would think so (except Tennant) You may have some creative talent and imagination when it comes to your model designs and animations, but you've a lot to learn about how the world works, kid.
sadako24 1 month ago