@honeyman1964 cont. his work and his writings, something that you won't be, by your own choice. You choose the easy way, believing in what makes you happy. You cop-out of real responsibility and real meaning in life because you have *hope* that this life is just some small, meaningless part of a divine plan. This life is the only thing we have, based on everything we know to be true. I'll make my life a good one, free of the shackles of religion and the prison it creates in every theist's mind.
@BER2ERKER ''the shackles of religion and the prison it creates in every theist's mind''.
As Christianity founded Modern Science,Art & Literature,Free thinking & Democracy[& even Athiesm!],its hard to know where to start with your ridiculous parroting of politically correct groupthink slogans.
You know nothing of what you speak. I've refuted these points time & time again. You can copy & paste, yes, but have an absolute lack of insight & revel in intellectual cowardice. You are an outright lying bitch incapable of thinking beyond argumentum ad invincible.
@honeyman1964 Well of course, it's all about death and the fear of death, and it always will be. You believe that because you have hope in life after death, that life after death is real? I'm not willing to take that chance with my life, by living like a slave to iron age mythology and throwing away my dignity and reason. It doesn't matter what we hope for, or what makes us happy. What matters is the truth. The truth is: no matter if Hitchens is dead and never will live again, he is immortal in
ok before i say anything let me just say that im not religious,but i am spiritual in the sense that i believe in a higher power like einstein did, but let me just say that almost all atheists are absolute hypocrites, for instance, atheists, constantly say that religion has caused more lives to be lost than anything else, that is false, Hitler, slaughtered 6 million jews because of his Darwinian beliefs of weeding out the bad genes, stalin who killed 20 million people, as an atheist.
1.) "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- C. Hitchens
Thus, is there any reason to seriously consider your spirituality?
2.) a.) Hilter used used religion as a method to shape society in rallying against Judaism. b.) You need to look into how a "cult of personality" acts as a surrogate for traditional religion.
@atheists.do not be afraid to voice your opinion.I know there is a multitude out there ,praying to something they don't believe in,but they want to keep their jobs.But i hope i can give you strength to do what you know is right.In 1984 ,the british miners went on strike for 1 year,no pay no dole .We were up against the might of the british government.We stayed on strike for 1 year,it cost thatcher 3 billion £s at that time.Now in britain there are 10 pits left.The working man united will win
I openly wage metaphysical war on those daring to speak of mysticism. It's not only because of Hitchens & others, but because of Luke 12:10.
You Christians would dare tell me of John 8:32, then in the next breath, tell me if I question or correct your Christ I'll spend eternity in hellfire? Fuck you & your book.
Now I research & develop new ways to deconstruct all the Abrahamic bullshit. & least you expose yourself as a hypocrite, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
@recalibration ''I research & develop new ways to deconstruct all the Abrahamic bullshit. & least you expose yourself as a hypocrite, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.''
that is true,because Protestant Christians fought & died to pass the ''TOLERATION ACT'' in the 17th century,you are now free to spend your life trying to destroy christianity,& there's not a damn thing we can do about it!THE IRONY!
Adam and Eve chose not to obey God, showing that their desire was to sin. So how can mankind blame God? If it is your desire to have peace, turn to the Lord Jesus Christ today. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." Matt. 11:28
If your god really is omniscient, then he set up Adam & Eve to fail. If he's not omniscient, then why call him God? A better question would be: why such a being would _even bother creating existence_?
Until you can answer these questions, cease your pathetic proselytizing.
Furthermore, the sins of the father are not sins of mine.
@recalibration which religion do u come from? do u know ur religion as much u know the others? do u succeed in worshipping ur God? i am god ( ur god )!
I'm not going to answer such a question fr someone that believes civilization started in the in 1600s. Evidence of your blatant ignorance is rife throughout these comments & anyone can find them by simply searching "MF0" (that "MF"+"zero").
i'm a theist, and i know i must learn about atheist view points (rare, huh?)- I think the biggest reason why religion is made up is to Gain power over other minds and individuals. Recently, i've re-read Animal Farm, and i think that if religion is made up, then we are living in the microcosm of Animal Farm currently. who disagrees?
I cannot speak for everyone, but my personal experience is there's a massive gulf between those not afraid to investigate, learn, have their perceptions challenged v simply wrapping oneself in a spiritual security blanket.
I charge accepting someone's belief w/ out falsifiability is naive & makes you susceptible to manipulation.
I have a book I'm currently enjoying, conveniently titled "A Beginner's Guide to The Scientific Method" ... would you like a copy of it?
You can't answer direct questions either. Again, you state your book is "the real truth". So what was the name of Enoch's mother, the matriarch of the Caanites? What land did she originate?
@BER2ERKER Its very meaningful to me,I have as much say,or more than his education,which is meaningless to me.He taught all those years his belief,and now he is dead at age 62,and according to his belief,that's all he is,dead.Sad.I am glad I have hope beyond death.I wish he had changed his ways before he died.
@MegaFloyd100 Not entirely sure how you came to that "conclusion" there, but I really
don't care to know. Also it's philosophical, with an "o". That may seem trivial, but it's telling. Anyone with at least some experience with philosophy courses or knowledge of it otherwise wouldn't make that mistake. My "argument" (it wasn't even an argument, it was a description of why I would justifiably separate two given topics) is based on a logical overview of the scientific method and everything we kno
unfortunately, he misrepresents the gospels, he misrepresents what Jesus said, he misrepresents Lewis, he misrepresents what the Bible actually says about the witnesses, he ignores the proofs that are accepted to validate historical accuracy/legitimacy of recorded documents....how can one take what he says without questioning his homework? it's very hard to take a man seriously who can't do his homework enough to properly represent an opposing argument.
taking the bible out of context. Thats all Im saying. Hitchens really is a brilliant man and a gifted speaker. He left this world at too young of an age. RIP
the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
@recalibration sin of omision,to know to do good and doeth it not,it is sin.I guess we are all guilty of that,don't you?whats your questions have to do with this guy?
@FR0STY0115 Because he was ignorant to the bible,the real truth,all he knows is to be educated by man and not Gods word.Simple.I just throwed in stupid,but he probably didn't know any better.I hope he found God before he died.
@honeyman1964 Like what?What did he misinterpret?Even the Christians cant agree on what the Bible says or what Jesus's messages was.That is why there is multiple Christian religions because all follow the Bible "or claim to"but yet none can agree on what it even says. The truth is Christianity is a young religion If we all spawned from two people who knew god on a first hand basis, wouldn't a religion worshiping him be the first ever relgion
@FR0STY0115 The bible is the most misinterpreted book ever written, The term Christ represents paternal senses, though can one teach another anything regrading their own minds conditionings? Its all inclusive which is why its such a difficult subject to discuss in person, being real. Do we often not truly say what we want when we are being subjected to others opinions? Does everyone want to feel that they are successful?
It seems the crux of your comment is that the perception of others is the key influencing factor on our perception of self. I charge that is tantamount to self induced slavery. Success, like the terms "sanity" & "cool" are defined by the definitions of others.
(Sidenote: Have you tried a MBTI evaluation yet? I've found one that I think is well rounded.)
The only thing the herd was ever good for was leading itself to slaughter. So fuck that. ;-)
Jesus had some pretty good things to say, I would even go so far as to call them important things, like "for this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they twain shall be one flesh," "for you have the poor always with you but me you have not always," and "even sinners lend to sinners expecting to be repaid in full." But I wouldn't peg him as the savior of the human race, the one and only promised messiah.
Note the Sadhus of India, the REAL Sadhus. They leave their family to practice yoga and find God. They take no thought of the morrow, the love not mammon or flesh. They exist to nourish spirit. That is not to say that this gives creedence to Jesus's historical viability, it only points that you cannot love both God and mammon, you must love one and hate the other. Want CWAAAAAZY? Read the book of Enoch.
I find this a shallow assessment of Jesus's teaching "make no plans for tomorrow" his disciples has treasurer, they had homes and they worked and planned. The message was more about balance and ultimate goals in life. Do do not be obsessed with becoming rich and focus only on natural things they are better more long lasting things available in life not only when you die but right now. I know it a debate but if read the gospels with some thought you would find this same message
@MegaFloyd100 ...of "leap of faith"; even so, it is still intrinsically different than the belief that it is possible to prove that Jesus was the son of God. Everything we know would have to be thrown out. Abiogenesis is still a science based theory and is rooted in biology and experimental as a function of biology. Unless one adopts it in a dogmatic way and assumes, its measurably different than the previous topic. I do agree that atheist people do this in many cases though; I don't, however.
@MegaFloyd100 No, in and of itself, no. The difference is that one is a dogmatic belief and one is in principle a scientific theory. Unless one makes assumptions and has convictions based on non-evidence, in terms of abiogenesis, then it isn't a leap of faith. I accept that it is a scientifically verifiable theory, and that it does not presently account for the origin of life. If one assumes that it does, with the limited data in terms of experiment and observation, then it becomes a type "leap
@BER2ERKER your argument only makes sense if you define science as synonymous with ''naturalism''.Hence your argument is a philisophical statement masked as an empiracle one.You are obviously so imbued with this worldview you cant see the difference or think any other way.Sorry.you cant have it both ways.Abiogenisis is a necessary faith leap for the religion of evolutionary naturalism.Haleleulla!Praise Nature![may peace be upon her]
Again: you do not have an understanding betwn the discipline's demarcation points & are unable to grasp that concept. Evolution doesn't need abiogenesis for it's merits as it's fact.
I charge you are unable to articulate how the device you're using _as you read this very message_ manipulates sub-atomic particles allowing you to communicate on this global telecomm network. Yet, you "know" your position is righteous.
The complexity of a system does not imply divinity.
@recalibration just recently scientists have taken steps closer to proving abiogenisis. its just a matter of time until we have a working model and experimental data.
They already showed evolution in process with evolved Yeast .
Wow did he miss the point. It usually takes the grossly over-educated to make simple things hard. The words in scripture are about the fact that God takes care of his own. Now to worry about getting out of bed or to just lie there & contemplate your navel. I gather he forgot that Christians are to be about God's works. Hmm I guess he missed that one. Well anything to further one's cause even if it's wrong. To gloss over a resurrection is quite a leap. Even for an egg head.
Funny that he says, "Jesus tells you 'mind no morrow' and likens this to leaving one's family" when he himself left his family/wife for his own girlfriend.
@Jesuspeake- We know from historical & archeological data, the bible is not a history book portraying accurate events, nor truths about certain cultures. It is a book of ideology- idealized accounts.
@rooio3 (1) WRONG. Look into the secret societies that these same politicians calling for a New World Order are apart of. They are Luciferian occultists with an agenda to abolish all spiritual and religious aspects of society to then usher in the anti-Christ who will rule over mankind through a tyrannical Luciferian one-world government. (This is their demonic religious belief and agenda.)
@rooio3 (2) But first, they have to construct a global secular society. Look at the back of a 1-dollar bill. They hide their symbolism in plain view. You see the Illuminati pyramid with the Freemasonic all-seeing eye at the top (aka the "eye of Lucifer"). Underneath, it reads "novus ordo seclorum," which is latin for a "new secular order." Above the eye, it reads "annuit coeptis" which means "he favors our undertaking." ... "He" being Lucifer.
@rooio3 (3) Please, I urge you to look into the nefarious Luciferian religious beliefs of the politicians & elites currently running our world. Watch two YouTube documentaries called "The Arrivals" & "Lucifer god of the Illuminati." They will explain it to you much better than I can. Also, do a search for the New World Order & one-world government.
Watch our politicians call for a "new world order" at:
h t t p : / / 911truthseeker . webs . com / thenewworldorder . htm
@rooio3 "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless they will take a Luciferian initiation."
-David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
@rooio3 "Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviors and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet, and the only God."
--H.P. Blavatsky, highly-respected Illuminati occultist and author of "The Secret Doctrine"
@restoredrob ...the concept of the word God/god if you don't/do believe God exists, so do journals that try to explore the idea that Jesus was the son of God. Once a journal does that, yes I will become
instantly biased. If there is substantiative data and evidence surmounted in it's wake, then by all means I will redefine my (and any other scientist that isn't a theist) convictions; however, this hasn't happened yet, case in point.
@restoredrob ...always a theist who is trying to obtain for his core beliefs. I know of the journal, and which parts are decent. Don't try to compare it with journals you'll find among NAS scientists on physics or neuroscience though, there are different levels of journals and different subjects/tiers. In fact they vary substantially. You can't say, "oh it's a journal", so it's instantly acceptable; that isn't the case. Just as philosophy of religion ends/splits immediately after the intro to t
@restoredrob Your erudite nature shines through your tone, I must say. Bias? Yes, very much so. Except it's bias based on the given evidence about everything we know in this universe. A human cannot resurrect after being dead for three days, regardless of if he claims to be the son of God or is actually so. That's simply egregious. Any piece of a journal that explores this aspect of Jesus, rather than simply historic role (or earlier, historic existence) is not only biased already but *almost*
Don't you dare presume to understand the method of investigation & it's related science when you've never even heard of Galileo's "Falling Bodies" experiment.
@recalibration wazzup with that?''It is no accident then, that following Galileo's death in 1642 that the greatest advances in science would come from outside Italy in countries like England, Holland and Germany. These were, after all, Protestant countries with a tradition of protest and toleration. But 1642 also signifies something else for it was in that year that the man most responsible for producing modern science was born. That man was Isaac Newton''
Exactly. As I said, an aspect of The Copernican Revolution which was ~190 yrs in the making.
Galileo's influence on Newton cannot be ignored, nor Aristotle on Galileo. Copernicus began work on what became heliocentricism in Italy, 1497. 145 be4 Galileo, in a land who's pri. religion is trad. Catholicism.
Even Copernicus is specif. stated to have studied Aristole metaphysics & cosmology.
Your lack of attention betrays you. Again, this is elementary systems analysis.
@recalibration OMG who HASNT heard of the Gallileo experiment! Its revisionist PC History is the standard poster child for the ficticious science/religion split,[as is 'Inheret the wind']e greatest advances in science would come from countries like England, Holland and Germany. These were, after all, Protestant countries with a tradition of protest and toleration & questioning authority.
"pardon my ignorance old chap,i dont get your Epicurean pun.Could u please enlighten me?" -- MegaFloyd100, 5 days ago
"Its revisionist PC History [...]" -- MegaFloyd100, today
How can you possibly know what's been revised when you don't even know its origins nor influences? Again, your stance is analogous to the wheel not existing until the manufacture of rubber.
Just because you want your belief to be true doesn't mean it is.
Thanks for that. I made it about 4:06, but was constantly interrupted by my conscious nagging me w/ the question "Which god, specifically?"
IIRC, in the history of the world, monotheism is a very new concept. Precisely which dogma's divine being(s) are we talking here? What thoroughly defined attributes are we assigning? How do we know it's correct?
I charge until we resolve such ambiguity, it & that video are nothing more than a waste of time.
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes." -- I. Asimov
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes." -- I. Asimov
@malithe00 :clapping: Thank you, that's hilarious, but I prefer to call them "smug fart smellers" myself...say it three times fast and any and all atheists disappear...it's like magic almost :D.
@recalibration dude, go f*ck yourself. stop spitting that hate. let people believe what they want to believe and stop harassing someone's religion, however valid you think it may be
"dude, go f*ck yourself. stop spitting that hate. let people believe what they want to believe and stop harassing someone's religion.
FYI, you say that about Muhammad and post a picture of him, then you're dead by tomorrow"
Now, b4 noting obvious hypocrisy, do u really think I fear dimwittd Internet Tuff Guys? The hubris of ur empty beliefs to b as valid as applied sciences.
Go imitate your prophet & rape a child then come at me bro.
"Go imitate your prophet & rape a child then come at me bro."
LOL! Do you own the copyrights to that one bro, because I'd like to use it in my book on dumb sh*t bigots say.
I'm not questioning your beliefs. In fact, you may be right about a lot of things. But don't trash someone else's religion. That does the world no good, and people die over that stuff. That is all.
Can I claim copyright? No, for it's the scripture of your "Mother of the Believers" that I draw. How old was Ayesha when that False Prophet "consummated" the marraige? 6? 9? 10? I can never get a straight answer.
Your culture has discarded its rich history of advancing the sciences. Now your religion breeds more simpletons than the rest of the children of Abraham. Still you primitives don't grasp that it's not _what you believe_ that's relevant, only what you can *prove*. You would dare call me a bigot when your tenets would dictate the One True Salvation & every action of my life? Fuck you.
Personally, I hope there is a hell so I can make Muhammad my bitch. I'll see you there.
& you seem to be able to read, but not comprehend:
"Still you primitives don't grasp that it's not _what you believe_ that's relevant, only what you can *prove*. "
"Facts be damn! I feel this is Truth, so I'm entitled to it!" No, you're just another madman shouting into the wind. To cling to belief in the face of hard, falsifiable science just shows you're operating under a psychosis. Grow up.
"Imagine the people who believe such things & who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. & it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides & leaders of us all; who would force their feeble & childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools & libraries & homes." -- I. Asimov
Just because Jesus may have been a storybook character, that doesn’t mean he’s not a good character, doesn’t mean he hasn’t got wisdom to impart. Didn’t He say the Kingdom of Heaven is within? Luke 17; 21, I think it was. And what a useful piece of information that is when you think about it.
@BER2ERKER Anybody? You just exposed your ignorance and bias with this absurd assertion. The fact is there is a consensus in a scholastic field and anyone intelligent will understand this. Translation, 'I cannot refute the evidence, I know nothing about this but my emotions make me respond at any cost not matter how stupid because of my childishness. Get real you speak for yourself and your willful ignorance and bias, no one else.
Did you know that every human born on this earth is born an atheist? The process with which you think about things is based upon indoctrination, what you’re given by society. Your RANGE of thought is limited by the dominant values of your society. We talk about civilization BUT, There are no civilized people yet; civilization is a work in progress. As long as you have war, police, prisons, crime, religion, you’re in the early stages of what they call, civilization
"They need to ignore their bodies and contribute to the survival of the species. we are here to reproduce" etc etc.
Does that apply to the disabled, to the people in perpetual care asylums, the mentally deficient in hospital, the brain defectives, religious retardates who kill others and blow themselves up into jigsaw puzzles, the self righteous bastards who think they are doing god a favor by telling everybody else why they were born and how to live their lives?
@Jesuspeake Obviously, if you're incapable or reproducing, be it physically or mentally, then you have much more to worry about. The people who blow each other up are not religious, though they love to claim it. If they were they were, then they'd be contradicting what they believe in. But what does sexual preference have to do with murder? Well if you believe in God and his laws, and were taught to spread them, what other behavior do you expect?
Sexual preference is what religionists use to justify murdering gays, that's what sexual preference has to do with murder. The same applies to religious fanatics who will murder atheists for blasphemy. I was brought up in the fantasy of the god myths and the religious demands to preach the gospel but after reading and studying the bible for 40 days and forty nights I actually discovered all about the god myths and the bible Jesus and I marvel at the simplicity of both.
@Jesuspeake Really? I seem to notice that most people killing gays are mostly homophobic heterosexual males who are insecure about their own sexualities that they feel the need to assert their stance on to others. I have not once seen a story where a true christian killed a gay person just for being gay. If it's ever happened, it's most likely that that person's homophobia overpowered their beliefs.
Christians are not the only people in the world however, religion in the christian world perpetuate the nonsense than gays are legitimate targets and cite the bible the calls for their death to support them. Pastor Eddie Long at the centre of a slew of underage gay sex allegations told his congregation that gays “deserve death” during sermons in the 1990s.
@Jesuspeake I can't speak for other religions since I don't know much about them, nor do I follow them. You can't condemn an entire group of people based on the words of a few. It's unfortunate that there are people who teach that message, but the ones that do are far and few in between.
2. It was called a "hate march" because it was against Gay marriage
3. you can't condemn a group of people based on ...a few" This is the same argument used by Muslims, if not to justify, at least to minimize the Jihadi suicide bombers and killing blasphemers, gays, apostates, Infidels, cartoonists, anti Islam etc
4. by "his" words, Kayser: He quoted NT for Christians because he claims Mosaic Law applies today.
2. So the civil rights marches by MLK were hate rallies against whites?
3. I'm friends with Muslims, Islams, Jews, Hindu's and atheists. None of them behave in an extremist manner. Therefore, I don't condemn their beliefs based on the action of those that have nothing to do with them.
4. Again, his opinion. It's up to you if you agree or not. But don't twist it around. No true christian today will kill anyone, regardless of beliefs.
4. No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them.
2. I referred only to the Marriage March against same sex marriage, please do not extrapolate.
3, Belief in the supernatural is a sham; a mental deficiency.
The Father? Who do you think the Father is that Jesus referred to? How about the self witness, human conscience, how about the Good Spirit of Memory that guides us during, through and after a bundle of learning experiences. Where did Jesus say the Kingdom of the Father was? LK 17:20-21. The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: the kingdom of God is within you. Jesus was an atheist re: gods of men.
05/16/2011 ARIEL TORRES ORTEGA at Sunday's hate march in the Bronx, hosted by New York Senator Ruben Diaz and the National Organization for Marriage, calling for death to gay people. STEVEN ANDERSON, who preaches from the pulpit at Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, he demands all gay and lesbians face the death penalty. PHILLIP KAYSER pastor of Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha, NB. endorsed Ron Paul for President. He cites NT to support death for gays.
@Jesuspeake His words were "God gave them over to reprimand their mind to do things that are not right, being against all justice, fornication, perversity, aberrations, malignity…those who practice such things are worthy to death, not only do they do it, but those who also practice it."
@Jesuspeake He was paraphrasing (Lev 20:13) "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
Agree with the message or not, this story is not about a gay person being killed by a Christian. Also, the story seems to be biased as well, notice in the first sentence, it labels the gathering a 'hate march.' That's rather suspicious.
It is easy as child's play to know that Jesus hated religion and everything religion stands for: the hypocrisy, the pretense, the devouring of widow's property, the lengthy show of prayers, the rituals, the greetings, the highest seats, the_ supernatural caca del toro, the building of tombs, decorating graves. Read the ENTIRE chapter 23 of Matthew and tell me what part of Religion, the Church, Clergy, Rituals, Jesus loved! Or was a member of? The facts speak: Jesus was an atheist
God does not allow evil or starvation or disease or death and the simple reason is because God does not exist anymore than the tooth fairy or Santa Clause. God is merely the adult idea of childhood caricature concepts manifested as we think they should look like or behave, that's all.
Don't you even understand that Jesus was an atheist whose fame was hijacked by religious organizations for their own self perpetuation of the god myth hoax who, to this very day, still use his name to try and sell their wares across the planet peddling everything from miracle cures in ketchup packages to spontaneous healing at religious seances? Incoherent babble is called Speaking in tongues? Religion took the Human Sexual Season from the OT, hijacked it and called Christmas!
@Jesuspeake At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
How was Jesus was an atheist, on who doesn't believe in god?
And all Hitchens demonstrates here is that he is not a historian. Like his bit on the census, apparently he is unware of the census ordered by Augustus in 8 BC. The greek says it was the census before Qurinius was in authority in Syria and Quirinius was in authority in Syria in 8 BC anyway. So the nativity acct recorded in Luke and Matthew are fine and his critique is based on ignorance. Research Hitchens life, he is a product of his environment like Dawkins who was molested by a priest.
@zeroepyon According numerous scholars like Barton from Bryn Mawr, the Maximus Papyrus shows they returned to their ancestral homes in greek called their 'hearths'.
"Luke’s statement, that Joseph went up from Nazareth to Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David...turns out to be in exact accord with the governmental regulations as we now know them from the papyri. (Barton, G.A. 1917. Archaeology and the Bible. Philadelphia: American Sunday-School Union, p. 435).
@zeroepyon Not enough room to post the evidences but the scholars on this that say the papyrus shows the requirement in accord with Luke include Steven Cesar of Havard, Sir Frederick Kenyon, Sir William Ramsey, Cobern and George A. Barton, Ph.D., Professor of Biblical Literature and Semitic Languages at Bryn Mawr and former Director of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem.
@panostsak@panostsak Ok the best is the Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus is the best. It is the peer-reviewed journal where historians publish their research on the Third Quest for the Historical Jesus. Other than that I simply read their books. Bible.org is a good resource for the laymen to look up specific topics like the historiographic criteria applied to the resurrection and the historical research: It wouldnt let me post the link...I'll post enough for you figure it out
@panostsak You can look up scholars like Richard Bauckham, E.P. Sanders, Samuel Byrskog, Eddy and Boyd, N.T. Wright, Ben Witherington, Daniel Wallace, Paula Frederiksen, Geza Vermes etc. on that site and find articles, footnotes etc.
@zeroepyon Do you have any proof for such a peculiar idea? It would be chaotic and pointless, tens of thousands of people forced to move around, to go back to where they were born - for what possible benefit to anybody (except gospel literalists)? That isn't the actions of a wise government, it would cause chaos, resentment and loss of revenue. Censuses were unpopular enough (seen as precursors to extra taxation) to be so bloody-minded about it would be extremely stupid for any imperial power.
@MartinJWillett@restoredrob just sent me a few sources to look at. he counter my argument about it being ancestors and not birth. I may have mixed it up but the evidence seems to be there. I'm looking into it now.
@zeroepyon I have sources on this from archeologists Sir Frederick Kenyon on this, Sir William Ramsay, Steven Cesar of Harvard, Millar Burrows of Yale, paleographer William Foxwell Albright, manuscript expert F.F. Bruce, Barton from Bryn Mawr director of the archaeological foundation the American school of Oriental Research in Jerusalem, C.M. Cobern published in the Oriental Institutes, 'Journal of Near Eastern Studies'. The space limitations here prevent citing them well but I will a couple
@zeroepyon "Some years ago the census was regarded as a difficulty...some remarkable discoveries have changed the situation....Ramsay's researches, which have been corroborated by other discoveries still later3..."
3...It will be noticed that the procedure indicated in the edict give above tends to support the common belief, based on Matthew 2:22 (not Luke) that Bethlehem was Joseph's own original home."
Carpenter, Spencer Cecil, 'Christianity According to St Luke'; The MacMillan Co, p 151-152.
@zeroepyon F.F. Bruce: "Luke’s description of the manner in which the census was carried out...is illustrated...from an edict of A.D. 104, in which Vibius Maximus...gives notice: “The enrolment by household being at hand, it is necessary to notify all who for any cause whatsoever are outside their nomes [administrative divisions of Egypt] to return to their domestic hearths, that they may also perform the customary dispensation of enrolment”
F.F. Bruce, Archaeology and the New Testament. pp.24.
@restoredrob Where do you get such transparent lies from? Richard Dawkins molested by a priest? What gives you the right to spread lies in the name of truth?
@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
@restoredrob You wrote priest, not teacher, and you implied that it was a significant event that shaped and explained (away) his religious beliefs - that is a deliberate lie. He was not traumatized by it, it was entirely trivial, and it had no bearing whatsoever on his beliefs, career or sexuality. Christians seem to think that it takes something evil to make a person into an atheist and that is simply not true.
@MartinJWillett It was an Anglican priest at a parochial school. And your point? He still was molested by a pedophile linked religiously, the source of much of his axe-grinding. Read the article I linked. He bizarrely says gentle pedophiles should not be termed monstrous predators we need better terminology and they are only termed that way by adult hangups. Bizarre rant on pedophilia. Dawkins also says the Nazi's could have been right. The point is Hitchen and Dawkins are not good sources
@restoredrob Where have you got that he was a priest? Anglican schools do not routinely employ priests as Latin masters. I agree entirely with his point about sexual abuse - it is crazy to expect every instance to be massively damaging. That is not to say that it should be encouraged or excused, just not made out to be something which it is not. One survey suggests more than 50% of Indian children have been "sexually abused" are they a nation of communist atheists?
@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
Get educated on this issue, you are not and are uncritically regurgitating the pablum you have been spoonfed. Historians including non-Christian historians in a hundred year long research project are in the third phase termed' The Third Quest for the Historical Jesus' and are in a consensus that not only is Jesus historical but that He performed healings that have no known natural explanation. Accordingly, they also say denial of Jesus historicity is as extremist as holocaust denial.
@panostsak Sure Michael Grant, "To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels (New York: Macmillan, 1977), 199-200.
@MartinJWillett Wrong, and pathetic ignorant cop out. You are claiming bias in ignorance of the fact that Michael Grant is not a Christian! Neither were E.P. Sanders nor Barth Ehrman that I quoted. I purposely quoted non-Christians so your knee-jerk response is absurd and errant. Here is also of what you are ignorant, there is a consensus amongst historians, including non-Christians on this who say denial of the historicity of Jesus is as extremist as skinhead holocaust denial.
Why people still believe these Illuminati deceptions, I will never understand. Then again, I don't have any self-sh motive when it comes to theology.
saintstrawman 1 hour ago
@honeyman1964 cont. his work and his writings, something that you won't be, by your own choice. You choose the easy way, believing in what makes you happy. You cop-out of real responsibility and real meaning in life because you have *hope* that this life is just some small, meaningless part of a divine plan. This life is the only thing we have, based on everything we know to be true. I'll make my life a good one, free of the shackles of religion and the prison it creates in every theist's mind.
BER2ERKER 1 hour ago
@BER2ERKER ''the shackles of religion and the prison it creates in every theist's mind''.
As Christianity founded Modern Science,Art & Literature,Free thinking & Democracy[& even Athiesm!],its hard to know where to start with your ridiculous parroting of politically correct groupthink slogans.
MegaFloyd100 56 minutes ago
@MegaFloyd100
You know nothing of what you speak. I've refuted these points time & time again. You can copy & paste, yes, but have an absolute lack of insight & revel in intellectual cowardice. You are an outright lying bitch incapable of thinking beyond argumentum ad invincible.
(1/1 MF04)
recalibration 45 minutes ago
@honeyman1964 Well of course, it's all about death and the fear of death, and it always will be. You believe that because you have hope in life after death, that life after death is real? I'm not willing to take that chance with my life, by living like a slave to iron age mythology and throwing away my dignity and reason. It doesn't matter what we hope for, or what makes us happy. What matters is the truth. The truth is: no matter if Hitchens is dead and never will live again, he is immortal in
BER2ERKER 1 hour ago
ok before i say anything let me just say that im not religious,but i am spiritual in the sense that i believe in a higher power like einstein did, but let me just say that almost all atheists are absolute hypocrites, for instance, atheists, constantly say that religion has caused more lives to be lost than anything else, that is false, Hitler, slaughtered 6 million jews because of his Darwinian beliefs of weeding out the bad genes, stalin who killed 20 million people, as an atheist.
legitnoobie 2 hours ago
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@legitnoobie
1.) "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- C. Hitchens
Thus, is there any reason to seriously consider your spirituality?
2.) a.) Hilter used used religion as a method to shape society in rallying against Judaism. b.) You need to look into how a "cult of personality" acts as a surrogate for traditional religion.
Now shut your stupid, you make Canucks look bad.
(1/1 LN00)
recalibration 1 hour ago
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Very few Christians understand: 1. Jesus was not a Christian. 2. The Nature of faith. 3. Where Jesus said the Kingdom is.
4. What 666 the number is. 5. The Name of the Number 6 The Mark of the Number
7. What Ham actually did to cause the Curse of Ham's son Canaan by Noah
8. How Moses led the Exodus by night and by day.
9. How Jesus fed the multitudes
10 How he escaped from the tomb after the crucifixion.
Jesuspeake 5 hours ago
@atheists.do not be afraid to voice your opinion.I know there is a multitude out there ,praying to something they don't believe in,but they want to keep their jobs.But i hope i can give you strength to do what you know is right.In 1984 ,the british miners went on strike for 1 year,no pay no dole .We were up against the might of the british government.We stayed on strike for 1 year,it cost thatcher 3 billion £s at that time.Now in britain there are 10 pits left.The working man united will win
tontobones 5 hours ago
@tontobones
I openly wage metaphysical war on those daring to speak of mysticism. It's not only because of Hitchens & others, but because of Luke 12:10.
You Christians would dare tell me of John 8:32, then in the next breath, tell me if I question or correct your Christ I'll spend eternity in hellfire? Fuck you & your book.
Now I research & develop new ways to deconstruct all the Abrahamic bullshit. & least you expose yourself as a hypocrite, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
recalibration 3 hours ago
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@recalibration ''I research & develop new ways to deconstruct all the Abrahamic bullshit. & least you expose yourself as a hypocrite, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.''
that is true,because Protestant Christians fought & died to pass the ''TOLERATION ACT'' in the 17th century,you are now free to spend your life trying to destroy christianity,& there's not a damn thing we can do about it!THE IRONY!
MegaFloyd100 46 minutes ago
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Adam and Eve chose not to obey God, showing that their desire was to sin. So how can mankind blame God? If it is your desire to have peace, turn to the Lord Jesus Christ today. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." Matt. 11:28
KingdomSeeker2012 6 hours ago
@KingdomSeeker2012
If your god really is omniscient, then he set up Adam & Eve to fail. If he's not omniscient, then why call him God? A better question would be: why such a being would _even bother creating existence_?
Until you can answer these questions, cease your pathetic proselytizing.
Furthermore, the sins of the father are not sins of mine.
(1/1: KS)
recalibration 3 hours ago
@recalibration which religion do u come from? do u know ur religion as much u know the others? do u succeed in worshipping ur God? i am god ( ur god )!
psybera1987 2 hours ago
@psybera1987
If you are God, you have so very much to answer for.
The rest of your comment is irrelevant.
(1/1 PB00)
recalibration 1 hour ago
@recalibration ''he sins of the father are not sins of mine.'' -what about the blessings of the father,i bet you claim THEM as yours.
MegaFloyd100 51 minutes ago
@MegaFloyd100
I'm not going to answer such a question fr someone that believes civilization started in the in 1600s. Evidence of your blatant ignorance is rife throughout these comments & anyone can find them by simply searching "MF0" (that "MF"+"zero").
(1/1 MF05)
recalibration 40 minutes ago
359 people think that JC will return to earth and get CH
canadaqbank 9 hours ago
genius
dethronegod123 9 hours ago
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Very few Christians understand: 1. Jesus was not a Christian. 2. The Nature of faith. 3. Where Jesus said the Kingdom is.
4. What 666 the number is. 5. The Name of the Number 6 The Mark of the Number
7. What Ham actually did to cause the Curse of Ham's son Canaan by Noah
8. How Moses led the Exodus by night and by day.
9. How Jesus fed the multitudes
10 How he escaped from the tomb after the crucifixion.
Jesuspeake 13 hours ago
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Jesuspeake 13 hours ago
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Jesuspeake 13 hours ago
well mr hitchins will be giving a full account of himself before Christ. As we all will. Be ready!
MrJBSTINE 13 hours ago
@MrJBSTINE Shut up. No ones interested in your nonsense.
Flipper79able 13 hours ago
@Flipper79able ditto
MrJBSTINE 7 hours ago
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@MrJBSTINE
Speaking of lies, let's speak of the sin of omission:
Can you tell me fr what land came the matriarch of the Caanites? Can you tell me what was the name of Cain's wife?
(1/1 MJ00)
recalibration 1 hour ago
i'm a theist, and i know i must learn about atheist view points (rare, huh?)- I think the biggest reason why religion is made up is to Gain power over other minds and individuals. Recently, i've re-read Animal Farm, and i think that if religion is made up, then we are living in the microcosm of Animal Farm currently. who disagrees?
XianRaodon 14 hours ago
@XianRaodon
I cannot speak for everyone, but my personal experience is there's a massive gulf between those not afraid to investigate, learn, have their perceptions challenged v simply wrapping oneself in a spiritual security blanket.
I charge accepting someone's belief w/ out falsifiability is naive & makes you susceptible to manipulation.
I have a book I'm currently enjoying, conveniently titled "A Beginner's Guide to The Scientific Method" ... would you like a copy of it?
(1/:1 XR01)
recalibration 8 hours ago
@XianRaodon
Also, I admire your choice to personally investigate the positions of dissenting voices.
(1/1 XR02)
recalibration 8 hours ago
@honeyman,Gods word.Simple.I just throwed in stupid.Your own words,empty head
tontobones 15 hours ago
@tontobones I can't talk to people like you.No comments.
honeyman1964 7 hours ago
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recalibration 3 hours ago
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@honeyman1964
You can't answer direct questions either. Again, you state your book is "the real truth". So what was the name of Enoch's mother, the matriarch of the Caanites? What land did she originate?
(1/1 HM02)
recalibration 3 hours ago
@honeyman1964 Somebody of your caliber calling Hitchens stupid or uniformed is worthless and meaningless. You have no say.
BER2ERKER 23 hours ago 2
@BER2ERKER Its very meaningful to me,I have as much say,or more than his education,which is meaningless to me.He taught all those years his belief,and now he is dead at age 62,and according to his belief,that's all he is,dead.Sad.I am glad I have hope beyond death.I wish he had changed his ways before he died.
honeyman1964 6 hours ago
@BER2ERKER verifiably*
BER2ERKER 23 hours ago
@MegaFloyd100 cont. know to be scientifically and verifiable true.
BER2ERKER 23 hours ago
@MegaFloyd100 Not entirely sure how you came to that "conclusion" there, but I really
don't care to know. Also it's philosophical, with an "o". That may seem trivial, but it's telling. Anyone with at least some experience with philosophy courses or knowledge of it otherwise wouldn't make that mistake. My "argument" (it wasn't even an argument, it was a description of why I would justifiably separate two given topics) is based on a logical overview of the scientific method and everything we kno
BER2ERKER 23 hours ago
and yes his recent passing is very unfortunate.
tallguy18431 1 day ago
unfortunately, he misrepresents the gospels, he misrepresents what Jesus said, he misrepresents Lewis, he misrepresents what the Bible actually says about the witnesses, he ignores the proofs that are accepted to validate historical accuracy/legitimacy of recorded documents....how can one take what he says without questioning his homework? it's very hard to take a man seriously who can't do his homework enough to properly represent an opposing argument.
tallguy18431 1 day ago
@tallguy18431 Well said. I agree.
pmfrankcabrera 1 day ago
taking the bible out of context. Thats all Im saying. Hitchens really is a brilliant man and a gifted speaker. He left this world at too young of an age. RIP
ticles 1 day ago
the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
ticles 1 day ago
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the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
ticles 1 day ago
the problem is that he is taking some of what jesus said out of context. When jesus said to drop everything and leave your family he meant that you must be ready to do this for his sake and for the sake of God. Now for someone who believes in God and believes that Jesus was his Son this makes sense. For someone who isn't a believer I can see how this would seem crazy, because if you don't believe then you do not believe in the promise of spending eternity with God. People need to be careful with
ticles 1 day ago
This guy is dead,he was 62.The cause was pneumonia, a complication of esophageal cancer.I don't hate this guy,but he wont be spreading any more lies.
honeyman1964 1 day ago
@honeyman1964
Speaking of lies, let's speak of the sin of omission:
Can you tell me fr what land came the matriarch of the Caanites? Can you tell me what was the name of Cain's wife?
recalibration 1 day ago
@recalibration sin of omision,to know to do good and doeth it not,it is sin.I guess we are all guilty of that,don't you?whats your questions have to do with this guy?
honeyman1964 1 day ago
@honeyman1964
You state your book is "the real truth". So what was the name of Enoch's mother? Is it not important to the whole "begetting" aspect of OT?
recalibration 1 day ago
This guy is so ignorant and stupid,its unreal.
honeyman1964 1 day ago
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@honeyman1964
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- C. Hitchens
I like how you're really living Matt 5:22 .
recalibration 1 day ago
@honeyman1964 What makes you say that? You have made a statement,now defend it .Why is this guy "so ignorant and stupid,its unreal"?
FR0STY0115 1 day ago
@FR0STY0115 Because he was ignorant to the bible,the real truth,all he knows is to be educated by man and not Gods word.Simple.I just throwed in stupid,but he probably didn't know any better.I hope he found God before he died.
honeyman1964 1 day ago
@honeyman1964 Like what?What did he misinterpret?Even the Christians cant agree on what the Bible says or what Jesus's messages was.That is why there is multiple Christian religions because all follow the Bible "or claim to"but yet none can agree on what it even says. The truth is Christianity is a young religion If we all spawned from two people who knew god on a first hand basis, wouldn't a religion worshiping him be the first ever relgion
FR0STY0115 13 hours ago
@FR0STY0115 The bible is the most misinterpreted book ever written, The term Christ represents paternal senses, though can one teach another anything regrading their own minds conditionings? Its all inclusive which is why its such a difficult subject to discuss in person, being real. Do we often not truly say what we want when we are being subjected to others opinions? Does everyone want to feel that they are successful?
DrFruedienslip 11 hours ago
@DrFruedienslip Waffle.
SethHesio 5 hours ago
@DrFruedienslip
It seems the crux of your comment is that the perception of others is the key influencing factor on our perception of self. I charge that is tantamount to self induced slavery. Success, like the terms "sanity" & "cool" are defined by the definitions of others.
(Sidenote: Have you tried a MBTI evaluation yet? I've found one that I think is well rounded.)
The only thing the herd was ever good for was leading itself to slaughter. So fuck that. ;-)
(1/1 DF00)
recalibration 2 hours ago
@DrFruedienslip umm o.k What are you talking about?
FR0STY0115 1 hour ago
Jesus had some pretty good things to say, I would even go so far as to call them important things, like "for this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they twain shall be one flesh," "for you have the poor always with you but me you have not always," and "even sinners lend to sinners expecting to be repaid in full." But I wouldn't peg him as the savior of the human race, the one and only promised messiah.
handsomebrick 1 day ago
Note the Sadhus of India, the REAL Sadhus. They leave their family to practice yoga and find God. They take no thought of the morrow, the love not mammon or flesh. They exist to nourish spirit. That is not to say that this gives creedence to Jesus's historical viability, it only points that you cannot love both God and mammon, you must love one and hate the other. Want CWAAAAAZY? Read the book of Enoch.
louidoggify 1 day ago
Miss Hitch already
chitownthinker 1 day ago
I find this a shallow assessment of Jesus's teaching "make no plans for tomorrow" his disciples has treasurer, they had homes and they worked and planned. The message was more about balance and ultimate goals in life. Do do not be obsessed with becoming rich and focus only on natural things they are better more long lasting things available in life not only when you die but right now. I know it a debate but if read the gospels with some thought you would find this same message
midnightwatchman1 1 day ago
The true core of christianity are the older myths that it mirrors.
jesusisaklingon 1 day ago
@MegaFloyd100 ...of "leap of faith"; even so, it is still intrinsically different than the belief that it is possible to prove that Jesus was the son of God. Everything we know would have to be thrown out. Abiogenesis is still a science based theory and is rooted in biology and experimental as a function of biology. Unless one adopts it in a dogmatic way and assumes, its measurably different than the previous topic. I do agree that atheist people do this in many cases though; I don't, however.
BER2ERKER 1 day ago
@MegaFloyd100 No, in and of itself, no. The difference is that one is a dogmatic belief and one is in principle a scientific theory. Unless one makes assumptions and has convictions based on non-evidence, in terms of abiogenesis, then it isn't a leap of faith. I accept that it is a scientifically verifiable theory, and that it does not presently account for the origin of life. If one assumes that it does, with the limited data in terms of experiment and observation, then it becomes a type "leap
BER2ERKER 1 day ago
@BER2ERKER your argument only makes sense if you define science as synonymous with ''naturalism''.Hence your argument is a philisophical statement masked as an empiracle one.You are obviously so imbued with this worldview you cant see the difference or think any other way.Sorry.you cant have it both ways.Abiogenisis is a necessary faith leap for the religion of evolutionary naturalism.Haleleulla!Praise Nature![may peace be upon her]
MegaFloyd100 1 day ago
@MegaFloyd100
Again: you do not have an understanding betwn the discipline's demarcation points & are unable to grasp that concept. Evolution doesn't need abiogenesis for it's merits as it's fact.
I charge you are unable to articulate how the device you're using _as you read this very message_ manipulates sub-atomic particles allowing you to communicate on this global telecomm network. Yet, you "know" your position is righteous.
The complexity of a system does not imply divinity.
(1/1 MF03)
recalibration 1 day ago
@recalibration just recently scientists have taken steps closer to proving abiogenisis. its just a matter of time until we have a working model and experimental data.
They already showed evolution in process with evolved Yeast .
ProphetJephri 1 hour ago
@ProphetJephri
& fruit flies, etc., etc., etc. Denying evolution today is tantamount to believe in a geocentric Solar System 350-odd yrs ago.
"Gravity is a theory. It is also a fact. Anyone who disagrees is invited to jump out a ten story window." -- R. Dawkins
(1/1 PJ00)
recalibration 1 hour ago
Wow did he miss the point. It usually takes the grossly over-educated to make simple things hard. The words in scripture are about the fact that God takes care of his own. Now to worry about getting out of bed or to just lie there & contemplate your navel. I gather he forgot that Christians are to be about God's works. Hmm I guess he missed that one. Well anything to further one's cause even if it's wrong. To gloss over a resurrection is quite a leap. Even for an egg head.
1timby 1 day ago
Funny that he says, "Jesus tells you 'mind no morrow' and likens this to leaving one's family" when he himself left his family/wife for his own girlfriend.
DarkSeraphGurl 1 day ago
@Jesuspeake- We know from historical & archeological data, the bible is not a history book portraying accurate events, nor truths about certain cultures. It is a book of ideology- idealized accounts.
rooio3 1 day ago
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@rooio3 (1) WRONG. Look into the secret societies that these same politicians calling for a New World Order are apart of. They are Luciferian occultists with an agenda to abolish all spiritual and religious aspects of society to then usher in the anti-Christ who will rule over mankind through a tyrannical Luciferian one-world government. (This is their demonic religious belief and agenda.)
Yrhp8268 1 day ago
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@rooio3 (2) But first, they have to construct a global secular society. Look at the back of a 1-dollar bill. They hide their symbolism in plain view. You see the Illuminati pyramid with the Freemasonic all-seeing eye at the top (aka the "eye of Lucifer"). Underneath, it reads "novus ordo seclorum," which is latin for a "new secular order." Above the eye, it reads "annuit coeptis" which means "he favors our undertaking." ... "He" being Lucifer.
Yrhp8268 1 day ago
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@rooio3 (3) Please, I urge you to look into the nefarious Luciferian religious beliefs of the politicians & elites currently running our world. Watch two YouTube documentaries called "The Arrivals" & "Lucifer god of the Illuminati." They will explain it to you much better than I can. Also, do a search for the New World Order & one-world government.
Watch our politicians call for a "new world order" at:
h t t p : / / 911truthseeker . webs . com / thenewworldorder . htm
Yrhp8268 1 day ago
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@rooio3 "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless they will take a Luciferian initiation."
-David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
Yrhp8268 1 day ago
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@rooio3 "Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviors and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet, and the only God."
--H.P. Blavatsky, highly-respected Illuminati occultist and author of "The Secret Doctrine"
Yrhp8268 1 day ago
@restoredrob ...the concept of the word God/god if you don't/do believe God exists, so do journals that try to explore the idea that Jesus was the son of God. Once a journal does that, yes I will become
instantly biased. If there is substantiative data and evidence surmounted in it's wake, then by all means I will redefine my (and any other scientist that isn't a theist) convictions; however, this hasn't happened yet, case in point.
BER2ERKER 1 day ago
@restoredrob ...always a theist who is trying to obtain for his core beliefs. I know of the journal, and which parts are decent. Don't try to compare it with journals you'll find among NAS scientists on physics or neuroscience though, there are different levels of journals and different subjects/tiers. In fact they vary substantially. You can't say, "oh it's a journal", so it's instantly acceptable; that isn't the case. Just as philosophy of religion ends/splits immediately after the intro to t
BER2ERKER 1 day ago
@restoredrob Your erudite nature shines through your tone, I must say. Bias? Yes, very much so. Except it's bias based on the given evidence about everything we know in this universe. A human cannot resurrect after being dead for three days, regardless of if he claims to be the son of God or is actually so. That's simply egregious. Any piece of a journal that explores this aspect of Jesus, rather than simply historic role (or earlier, historic existence) is not only biased already but *almost*
BER2ERKER 1 day ago
@BER2ERKER ''A human cannot resurrect after being dead for three days, regardless of if he claims to be the son of God or is actually so.''
Does this mean that abiogenisis is 1 also egregious? or 2 a faith claim?
MegaFloyd100 1 day ago
@MegaFloyd100
Don't you dare presume to understand the method of investigation & it's related science when you've never even heard of Galileo's "Falling Bodies" experiment.
recalibration 1 day ago
@recalibration wazzup with that?''It is no accident then, that following Galileo's death in 1642 that the greatest advances in science would come from outside Italy in countries like England, Holland and Germany. These were, after all, Protestant countries with a tradition of protest and toleration. But 1642 also signifies something else for it was in that year that the man most responsible for producing modern science was born. That man was Isaac Newton''
MegaFloyd100 1 day ago
@MegaFloyd100
Exactly. As I said, an aspect of The Copernican Revolution which was ~190 yrs in the making.
Galileo's influence on Newton cannot be ignored, nor Aristotle on Galileo. Copernicus began work on what became heliocentricism in Italy, 1497. 145 be4 Galileo, in a land who's pri. religion is trad. Catholicism.
Even Copernicus is specif. stated to have studied Aristole metaphysics & cosmology.
Your lack of attention betrays you. Again, this is elementary systems analysis.
(1/1 MF00)
recalibration 1 day ago
@recalibration OMG who HASNT heard of the Gallileo experiment! Its revisionist PC History is the standard poster child for the ficticious science/religion split,[as is 'Inheret the wind']e greatest advances in science would come from countries like England, Holland and Germany. These were, after all, Protestant countries with a tradition of protest and toleration & questioning authority.
MegaFloyd100 1 day ago
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@MegaFloyd100
"pardon my ignorance old chap,i dont get your Epicurean pun.Could u please enlighten me?" -- MegaFloyd100, 5 days ago
"Its revisionist PC History [...]" -- MegaFloyd100, today
How can you possibly know what's been revised when you don't even know its origins nor influences? Again, your stance is analogous to the wheel not existing until the manufacture of rubber.
Just because you want your belief to be true doesn't mean it is.
(1/1 MF02)
recalibration 1 day ago
@sciencetheist
Thanks for that. I made it about 4:06, but was constantly interrupted by my conscious nagging me w/ the question "Which god, specifically?"
IIRC, in the history of the world, monotheism is a very new concept. Precisely which dogma's divine being(s) are we talking here? What thoroughly defined attributes are we assigning? How do we know it's correct?
I charge until we resolve such ambiguity, it & that video are nothing more than a waste of time.
Your thoughts?
recalibration 2 days ago
atheist is a word in the dictionary somewhere between "asshole" and "cocksucker". LOL
malithe00 2 days ago
@malithe00
Yawn.
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes." -- I. Asimov
recalibration 2 days ago
@recalibration
That is one excellent quote you listed by I. Asimov and it is worth repeating and so it shall be. Thank you.
LeoTheGreater 1 day ago
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@r
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes." -- I. Asimov
LeoTheGreater 1 day ago
@malithe00 :clapping: Thank you, that's hilarious, but I prefer to call them "smug fart smellers" myself...say it three times fast and any and all atheists disappear...it's like magic almost :D.
TheBosstrain 2 days ago
@malithe00
Actually I checked the most recent dictionary and "somewhere" between asshole and cocksucker looks like this:
Asshole, Ignoranus, malith00, cocksucker
Note this additional meaning: Ignoranus : A person who's both stupid and an asshole.
LeoTheGreater 1 day ago
@LeoTheGreatestDickLickerOfThemAll, no it doesn't you dishonest queer LOL
It goes "asshole" "asslicker" "ass-to-mouth" "asswipe" "atheist" "bastard" "cocklicker""cocksucker" "felching" I checked! LOL
malithe00 1 day ago
@malithe00
FYI: "Christian" comes before cocksucker.
recalibration 1 day ago
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aa2087 20 hours ago
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@recalibration dude, go f*ck yourself. stop spitting that hate. let people believe what they want to believe and stop harassing someone's religion, however valid you think it may be
aa2087 20 hours ago
@aa2087
For disclosure, let's post ur original comment:
"dude, go f*ck yourself. stop spitting that hate. let people believe what they want to believe and stop harassing someone's religion.
FYI, you say that about Muhammad and post a picture of him, then you're dead by tomorrow"
Now, b4 noting obvious hypocrisy, do u really think I fear dimwittd Internet Tuff Guys? The hubris of ur empty beliefs to b as valid as applied sciences.
Go imitate your prophet & rape a child then come at me bro.
recalibration 9 hours ago
@recalibration
"Go imitate your prophet & rape a child then come at me bro."
LOL! Do you own the copyrights to that one bro, because I'd like to use it in my book on dumb sh*t bigots say.
I'm not questioning your beliefs. In fact, you may be right about a lot of things. But don't trash someone else's religion. That does the world no good, and people die over that stuff. That is all.
aa2087 6 hours ago
@aa2087
Can I claim copyright? No, for it's the scripture of your "Mother of the Believers" that I draw. How old was Ayesha when that False Prophet "consummated" the marraige? 6? 9? 10? I can never get a straight answer.
(1/2 AA01)
recalibration 3 hours ago
@aa2087
Your culture has discarded its rich history of advancing the sciences. Now your religion breeds more simpletons than the rest of the children of Abraham. Still you primitives don't grasp that it's not _what you believe_ that's relevant, only what you can *prove*. You would dare call me a bigot when your tenets would dictate the One True Salvation & every action of my life? Fuck you.
Personally, I hope there is a hell so I can make Muhammad my bitch. I'll see you there.
(2/2 AA01)
recalibration 3 hours ago
@recalibration
Haha, whatever dude, I'm not even a Muslim. But you definitely sound like a bigot:
"your religion breeds more simpletons..."
"you primitives..."
"I hope there is a hell so I can make Muhammad my bitch."
I mean, come on...you can't honestly look at yourself in the mirror and not see that you're a bigot. Here's the definition in case you forgot.
bigot: noun. "a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."
Sound familiar?
aa2087 2 hours ago
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@aa2087
& you seem to be able to read, but not comprehend:
"Still you primitives don't grasp that it's not _what you believe_ that's relevant, only what you can *prove*. "
"Facts be damn! I feel this is Truth, so I'm entitled to it!" No, you're just another madman shouting into the wind. To cling to belief in the face of hard, falsifiable science just shows you're operating under a psychosis. Grow up.
(1/2 AA02)
recalibration 1 hour ago
@aa2087
"Imagine the people who believe such things & who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. & it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides & leaders of us all; who would force their feeble & childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools & libraries & homes." -- I. Asimov
(2/2 AA02)
recalibration 1 hour ago
In life hitchens was really just a bag of cottage cheese with eyeballs. Now, he's a bag of worm food in a box. LOL
malithe00 2 days ago
@malithe00
LOL...
& you're just a grave misplaced.
recalibration 2 days ago
@regurgitation, is THAT an attempt at humor? Don't give up your welfare check! LOL
malithe00 2 days ago
@malithe00
How about this then?
"Gravity is a theory. It is also a fact. Anyone who disagrees is invited to jump out a ten story window." -- R. Dawkins
Go ahead; prove him wrong. I look forward to the footage.
recalibration 2 days ago
@malithe00 your juvenile, insipid remarks does your Christianity no favors.
FloridaRaider 2 days ago
Jesus: the Most over rated Fictional Character.
Pablo113 2 days ago
@Pablum113, hitchens: 3 time felching champion of surrey.
malithe00 2 days ago
@Pablo113
Just because Jesus may have been a storybook character, that doesn’t mean he’s not a good character, doesn’t mean he hasn’t got wisdom to impart. Didn’t He say the Kingdom of Heaven is within? Luke 17; 21, I think it was. And what a useful piece of information that is when you think about it.
Jesuspeake 1 day ago
@Jesuspeake Jesus should get on his knees and open his mouth!
Pablo113 1 day ago
@Pablo113
So you're a pervert. I acknowledge that. Does that make you special? Actually it sort of makes you normal among reprobates.
LeoTheGreater 1 day ago
@restoredrob Anybody who knows of this effort and journal you cited isn't going to be impressed, just pointing this out.
BER2ERKER 2 days ago
@BER2ERKER Anybody? You just exposed your ignorance and bias with this absurd assertion. The fact is there is a consensus in a scholastic field and anyone intelligent will understand this. Translation, 'I cannot refute the evidence, I know nothing about this but my emotions make me respond at any cost not matter how stupid because of my childishness. Get real you speak for yourself and your willful ignorance and bias, no one else.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@MegaFloyd100
Did you know that every human born on this earth is born an atheist? The process with which you think about things is based upon indoctrination, what you’re given by society. Your RANGE of thought is limited by the dominant values of your society. We talk about civilization BUT, There are no civilized people yet; civilization is a work in progress. As long as you have war, police, prisons, crime, religion, you’re in the early stages of what they call, civilization
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@zeroepyon
"They need to ignore their bodies and contribute to the survival of the species. we are here to reproduce" etc etc.
Does that apply to the disabled, to the people in perpetual care asylums, the mentally deficient in hospital, the brain defectives, religious retardates who kill others and blow themselves up into jigsaw puzzles, the self righteous bastards who think they are doing god a favor by telling everybody else why they were born and how to live their lives?
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake Obviously, if you're incapable or reproducing, be it physically or mentally, then you have much more to worry about. The people who blow each other up are not religious, though they love to claim it. If they were they were, then they'd be contradicting what they believe in. But what does sexual preference have to do with murder? Well if you believe in God and his laws, and were taught to spread them, what other behavior do you expect?
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon
Sexual preference is what religionists use to justify murdering gays, that's what sexual preference has to do with murder. The same applies to religious fanatics who will murder atheists for blasphemy. I was brought up in the fantasy of the god myths and the religious demands to preach the gospel but after reading and studying the bible for 40 days and forty nights I actually discovered all about the god myths and the bible Jesus and I marvel at the simplicity of both.
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake Really? I seem to notice that most people killing gays are mostly homophobic heterosexual males who are insecure about their own sexualities that they feel the need to assert their stance on to others. I have not once seen a story where a true christian killed a gay person just for being gay. If it's ever happened, it's most likely that that person's homophobia overpowered their beliefs.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon
Christians are not the only people in the world however, religion in the christian world perpetuate the nonsense than gays are legitimate targets and cite the bible the calls for their death to support them. Pastor Eddie Long at the centre of a slew of underage gay sex allegations told his congregation that gays “deserve death” during sermons in the 1990s.
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake I can't speak for other religions since I don't know much about them, nor do I follow them. You can't condemn an entire group of people based on the words of a few. It's unfortunate that there are people who teach that message, but the ones that do are far and few in between.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon
A few points:
1.I kudos for the civility of your comments.
2. It was called a "hate march" because it was against Gay marriage
3. you can't condemn a group of people based on ...a few" This is the same argument used by Muslims, if not to justify, at least to minimize the Jihadi suicide bombers and killing blasphemers, gays, apostates, Infidels, cartoonists, anti Islam etc
4. by "his" words, Kayser: He quoted NT for Christians because he claims Mosaic Law applies today.
Jesuspeake 1 day ago
@Jesuspeake 1. Thanks. No point in being nasty
2. So the civil rights marches by MLK were hate rallies against whites?
3. I'm friends with Muslims, Islams, Jews, Hindu's and atheists. None of them behave in an extremist manner. Therefore, I don't condemn their beliefs based on the action of those that have nothing to do with them.
4. Again, his opinion. It's up to you if you agree or not. But don't twist it around. No true christian today will kill anyone, regardless of beliefs.
zeroepyon 14 hours ago
@zeroepyon
4. No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them.
2. I referred only to the Marriage March against same sex marriage, please do not extrapolate.
Jesuspeake 14 hours ago
@zeroepyon
3, Belief in the supernatural is a sham; a mental deficiency.
The Father? Who do you think the Father is that Jesus referred to? How about the self witness, human conscience, how about the Good Spirit of Memory that guides us during, through and after a bundle of learning experiences. Where did Jesus say the Kingdom of the Father was? LK 17:20-21. The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: the kingdom of God is within you. Jesus was an atheist re: gods of men.
Jesuspeake 13 hours ago
@Jesuspeake dude great observation also jacobs ladder was speaking about the human spine which leads up to gods physical temple (THE BRAIN) 8)
vGxDuBsTePzZ 12 hours ago
@vGxDuBsTePzZ
Yeah, I like your Jacob's ladder; Jesus would too being full of common sense.
Jesuspeake 6 hours ago
@zeroepyon
05/16/2011 ARIEL TORRES ORTEGA at Sunday's hate march in the Bronx, hosted by New York Senator Ruben Diaz and the National Organization for Marriage, calling for death to gay people. STEVEN ANDERSON, who preaches from the pulpit at Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, he demands all gay and lesbians face the death penalty. PHILLIP KAYSER pastor of Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha, NB. endorsed Ron Paul for President. He cites NT to support death for gays.
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake His words were "God gave them over to reprimand their mind to do things that are not right, being against all justice, fornication, perversity, aberrations, malignity…those who practice such things are worthy to death, not only do they do it, but those who also practice it."
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake He was paraphrasing (Lev 20:13) "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
Agree with the message or not, this story is not about a gay person being killed by a Christian. Also, the story seems to be biased as well, notice in the first sentence, it labels the gathering a 'hate march.' That's rather suspicious.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@813CR
It is easy as child's play to know that Jesus hated religion and everything religion stands for: the hypocrisy, the pretense, the devouring of widow's property, the lengthy show of prayers, the rituals, the greetings, the highest seats, the_ supernatural caca del toro, the building of tombs, decorating graves. Read the ENTIRE chapter 23 of Matthew and tell me what part of Religion, the Church, Clergy, Rituals, Jesus loved! Or was a member of? The facts speak: Jesus was an atheist
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@813CR
God does not allow evil or starvation or disease or death and the simple reason is because God does not exist anymore than the tooth fairy or Santa Clause. God is merely the adult idea of childhood caricature concepts manifested as we think they should look like or behave, that's all.
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@813CR
Don't you even understand that Jesus was an atheist whose fame was hijacked by religious organizations for their own self perpetuation of the god myth hoax who, to this very day, still use his name to try and sell their wares across the planet peddling everything from miracle cures in ketchup packages to spontaneous healing at religious seances? Incoherent babble is called Speaking in tongues? Religion took the Human Sexual Season from the OT, hijacked it and called Christmas!
Jesuspeake 2 days ago
@Jesuspeake Read Matthew 11.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon
I am familiar with Mat 11. What part of "Know" would you like to understand in chptr 11?
Jesuspeake 1 day ago
@Jesuspeake At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
How was Jesus was an atheist, on who doesn't believe in god?
zeroepyon 14 hours ago
And all Hitchens demonstrates here is that he is not a historian. Like his bit on the census, apparently he is unware of the census ordered by Augustus in 8 BC. The greek says it was the census before Qurinius was in authority in Syria and Quirinius was in authority in Syria in 8 BC anyway. So the nativity acct recorded in Luke and Matthew are fine and his critique is based on ignorance. Research Hitchens life, he is a product of his environment like Dawkins who was molested by a priest.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob Are you really suggesting that a Roman census required a man to go back to the town where his ancestors lived?
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett The census required all people to go back to where they were born, not where their families originated from.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon According numerous scholars like Barton from Bryn Mawr, the Maximus Papyrus shows they returned to their ancestral homes in greek called their 'hearths'.
"Luke’s statement, that Joseph went up from Nazareth to Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David...turns out to be in exact accord with the governmental regulations as we now know them from the papyri. (Barton, G.A. 1917. Archaeology and the Bible. Philadelphia: American Sunday-School Union, p. 435).
restoredrob 2 days ago
@zeroepyon Not enough room to post the evidences but the scholars on this that say the papyrus shows the requirement in accord with Luke include Steven Cesar of Havard, Sir Frederick Kenyon, Sir William Ramsey, Cobern and George A. Barton, Ph.D., Professor of Biblical Literature and Semitic Languages at Bryn Mawr and former Director of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob I think you wanted to reply to me; I didn't ask for the evidence, I asked for some references/links or names of their publications.
panostsak 2 days ago
@panostsak @panostsak Ok the best is the Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus is the best. It is the peer-reviewed journal where historians publish their research on the Third Quest for the Historical Jesus. Other than that I simply read their books. Bible.org is a good resource for the laymen to look up specific topics like the historiographic criteria applied to the resurrection and the historical research: It wouldnt let me post the link...I'll post enough for you figure it out
restoredrob 2 days ago
@panostsak //bible.org/article/historical-veracity-resurrection-narratives
restoredrob 2 days ago
@panostsak You can look up scholars like Richard Bauckham, E.P. Sanders, Samuel Byrskog, Eddy and Boyd, N.T. Wright, Ben Witherington, Daniel Wallace, Paula Frederiksen, Geza Vermes etc. on that site and find articles, footnotes etc.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@zeroepyon Do you have any proof for such a peculiar idea? It would be chaotic and pointless, tens of thousands of people forced to move around, to go back to where they were born - for what possible benefit to anybody (except gospel literalists)? That isn't the actions of a wise government, it would cause chaos, resentment and loss of revenue. Censuses were unpopular enough (seen as precursors to extra taxation) to be so bloody-minded about it would be extremely stupid for any imperial power.
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett @restoredrob just sent me a few sources to look at. he counter my argument about it being ancestors and not birth. I may have mixed it up but the evidence seems to be there. I'm looking into it now.
zeroepyon 2 days ago
@zeroepyon I have sources on this from archeologists Sir Frederick Kenyon on this, Sir William Ramsay, Steven Cesar of Harvard, Millar Burrows of Yale, paleographer William Foxwell Albright, manuscript expert F.F. Bruce, Barton from Bryn Mawr director of the archaeological foundation the American school of Oriental Research in Jerusalem, C.M. Cobern published in the Oriental Institutes, 'Journal of Near Eastern Studies'. The space limitations here prevent citing them well but I will a couple
restoredrob 2 days ago
@zeroepyon "Some years ago the census was regarded as a difficulty...some remarkable discoveries have changed the situation....Ramsay's researches, which have been corroborated by other discoveries still later3..."
3...It will be noticed that the procedure indicated in the edict give above tends to support the common belief, based on Matthew 2:22 (not Luke) that Bethlehem was Joseph's own original home."
Carpenter, Spencer Cecil, 'Christianity According to St Luke'; The MacMillan Co, p 151-152.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@zeroepyon F.F. Bruce: "Luke’s description of the manner in which the census was carried out...is illustrated...from an edict of A.D. 104, in which Vibius Maximus...gives notice: “The enrolment by household being at hand, it is necessary to notify all who for any cause whatsoever are outside their nomes [administrative divisions of Egypt] to return to their domestic hearths, that they may also perform the customary dispensation of enrolment”
F.F. Bruce, Archaeology and the New Testament. pp.24.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob Where do you get such transparent lies from? Richard Dawkins molested by a priest? What gives you the right to spread lies in the name of truth?
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob You wrote priest, not teacher, and you implied that it was a significant event that shaped and explained (away) his religious beliefs - that is a deliberate lie. He was not traumatized by it, it was entirely trivial, and it had no bearing whatsoever on his beliefs, career or sexuality. Christians seem to think that it takes something evil to make a person into an atheist and that is simply not true.
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett It was an Anglican priest at a parochial school. And your point? He still was molested by a pedophile linked religiously, the source of much of his axe-grinding. Read the article I linked. He bizarrely says gentle pedophiles should not be termed monstrous predators we need better terminology and they are only termed that way by adult hangups. Bizarre rant on pedophilia. Dawkins also says the Nazi's could have been right. The point is Hitchen and Dawkins are not good sources
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob Where have you got that he was a priest? Anglican schools do not routinely employ priests as Latin masters. I agree entirely with his point about sexual abuse - it is crazy to expect every instance to be massively damaging. That is not to say that it should be encouraged or excused, just not made out to be something which it is not. One survey suggests more than 50% of Indian children have been "sexually abused" are they a nation of communist atheists?
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
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@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
restoredrob 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett This is common knowledge, spoken of by Dawkins himself on his blog! So before calling someone a liar in ignorance, do your necessary due diligence! "Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old...As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile."
restoredrob 2 days ago
Previous comment directed @Kailoa36
restoredrob 2 days ago
Get educated on this issue, you are not and are uncritically regurgitating the pablum you have been spoonfed. Historians including non-Christian historians in a hundred year long research project are in the third phase termed' The Third Quest for the Historical Jesus' and are in a consensus that not only is Jesus historical but that He performed healings that have no known natural explanation. Accordingly, they also say denial of Jesus historicity is as extremist as holocaust denial.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob Can you name the historians and give us some references?
panostsak 2 days ago
@panostsak Sure Michael Grant, "To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels (New York: Macmillan, 1977), 199-200.
restoredrob 2 days ago
@restoredrob Thanks.
panostsak 2 days ago
@restoredrob The definition of first rank scholar being somebody who toes the Christian line.
MartinJWillett 2 days ago
@MartinJWillett Wrong, and pathetic ignorant cop out. You are claiming bias in ignorance of the fact that Michael Grant is not a Christian! Neither were E.P. Sanders nor Barth Ehrman that I quoted. I purposely quoted non-Christians so your knee-jerk response is absurd and errant. Here is also of what you are ignorant, there is a consensus amongst historians, including non-Christians on this who say denial of the historicity of Jesus is as extremist as skinhead holocaust denial.
restoredrob 2 days ago